Champions style league [Archive]

saskriders

11-14-2011, 12:58 AM

Now I know this is a pipe dream, and would never happen because the NHL and Gary Bettman doesn't give a **** about the IIHF (which is sad because it is bad for the game), but I think it would be cool to see a two or three week tournament at the end of the season with champions from the biggest leagues in the world. I don't know much about European hockey, but if I am not mistaken most of the leagues other than the KHL have teams only in one country right?? So if that were true I would suggest that the champions from the best leagues (again I don't know much about European hockey, but I think that a lot of these leagues are closer to the NHL than North Americans think) the Stanley Cup winner (and the best team from the country that didn't win the cup (last year wold have been Vancouver) so that both Canada and the US have a team). This way we could see all the years best teams play, and there would be national pride riding for the fans.
I think it would be especially cool if we had all the big international tourneys once every four years, because it would raise the prestige of them a lot (especially the World Championship in NA)
ex
2014: Olympics
2015: Champions Tournament
2016: World Cup
2017: World Championships

Thesensation19

02-12-2012, 04:26 PM

World Cup of Hockey happens every year...

And yes I agreee. I think the Hockey world should be more like the Futbol world.

A common interest for domestic and international championships.

I would want to see a shortened NHL season and replaced by international tournaments or more tournaments in general.

82 games is a lot.
With hockey rosters expanding each day and the competition increasing, this is popular. Its the duty of each team to decide what is more important to go after. Offer teams money in prizes, host arena gets revenue. So why not do it for money

Jonimaus

02-12-2012, 07:52 PM

The only reason Champions League can excist is because it's as, or even more prestigious to win than the domestic league, and thus, players try to the max in the tournament.

If a hockey champions league would excist, it would have to be as important, the players need to care about it.

Ro Herregraven

02-20-2012, 05:36 AM

If a hockey champions league would excist, it would have to be as important, the players need to care about it.

Whatever the players feel towards it is frankly irrelevant. No, the FANS need to care about it. A Champions League of hockey has been tried several times, and unfortunately also the last attempt has failed. I loved the Champions Hockey League, but that's because I'm a certified hockeynut who is interested about hockey globally, not just my own team. I'm an anomaly in European hockey.

9 out of 10 Frolunda-fans don't give two ***** about a game of Frolunda vs. Metallurg Magnitogorsk, they want to see local rivalries vs. other Swedish teams. And this goes for pretty much all of Europe, I was just using Sweden as an example. And if you can't get the fans behind it, you can't get the teams behind it either.

The Champions Hockey League *could* work because for the first time, such a tournament was funded well enough. Unfortunately, after one season the financial backing fell away, closing down an otherwise great idea.

Jonimaus

02-20-2012, 02:46 PM

Whatever the players feel towards it is frankly irrelevant. No, the FANS need to care about it. A Champions League of hockey has been tried several times, and unfortunately also the last attempt has failed. I loved the Champions Hockey League, but that's because I'm a certified hockeynut who is interested about hockey globally, not just my own team. I'm an anomaly in European hockey.

9 out of 10 Frolunda-fans don't give two ***** about a game of Frolunda vs. Metallurg Magnitogorsk, they want to see local rivalries vs. other Swedish teams. And this goes for pretty much all of Europe, I was just using Sweden as an example. And if you can't get the fans behind it, you can't get the teams behind it either.

The Champions Hockey League *could* work because for the first time, such a tournament was funded well enough. Unfortunately, after one season the financial backing fell away, closing down an otherwise great idea.

Quit reading here since it's so very wrong.

A tournament can never become anything if the players don't give it their absolute all. In football, players can skip league games to be fresh for Champions league.

Why should the fans care about a tournament where players are playing at 50%, avoiding contact or anything?

Ro Herregraven

02-20-2012, 03:12 PM

Quit reading here since it's so very wrong.

A tournament can never become anything if the players don't give it their absolute all. In football, players can skip league games to be fresh for Champions league.

Why should the fans care about a tournament where players are playing at 50%, avoiding contact or anything?I don't think team owners would accept such an attitude from their players in such a tournament, so I wouldn't worry about that too much. We're not talking about a friendly tournament, or a tournament between nations. We're talking teams, and players that are paid to play their best for those teams.

torero

02-22-2012, 02:29 PM

A big difference between european soccer (i know it therefore i can talk about it) and hockey is that in hockey, the players make the most money, with little to compare it their national championship ... unlike soccer where the biggest money (in most championships) comes from the UEFA.

Latgale_fan

02-24-2012, 04:28 PM

There's just no history like in soccer for international hockey tournaments. In soccer/football there's a long history of rivalries between not only clubs but countries, like Germany and England and France etc. and big clubs, they've played each other for decades, the top clubs from big countries. The same goes for basketball too. While in hockey it just doesn't exist.

But it should not be hard to create a rivalry, only if you put a real effort into into and played few years against the same opponent. One other things that prevents it from happening is just the fact that the hockey markets in Europe are small and/or weak.... except for Germany and Russia they are small and in German case hockey is not like the most popular sport and in Russia's case country's economy is not as big and it also loses to football.

Therefore imho if we ever want to see a real competition to NHL in Europe, it's going KHL way. Either if joining KHL or Western European teams creating their own big European NHL-like league....

Thesensation19

03-08-2012, 06:08 PM

all in all... i think it would be fun to watch the differ cultures and styles of hockey play against one another by club.

I think some euro teams will give the NHL teams a run for the money.

I think if you allow it to be hosted in North America venues, give money to the winning team this can happen. Also each team does not need to have their full 20 man NHL squad. If certain superstars do not want to participate, have prospects come up and take their spot. It gives them a chance to evaluate their prospects at a high level along w their team structure. Also gives players a chance to get ready for the season during the summer.

I mean look at the KHL teams as well...
You got a lot of superstars who could be in the NHL but chose to be in the KHL and homeland.

Thesensation19

03-12-2012, 10:28 PM

European Hockey is actually growing very well in its popularity, especially in the last decade. In fact I heard on several occasions and with some research I see this being true... but Hockey is the #2 popular sport in all of Europe (far behind soccer). I think its partially because of countries like Sweden/Finland/Russia/Czech which have hockey as its top 3 and because the large crowds their pro teams can obtain all season in comparison with sports like basketball or handball. Regardless, hockey is growing in Europe.

I truly believe from top to bottom, the NHL is the most competitive league in the world by far. That does not mean the top teams in leagues like Chech Extraliga, Swedish Premier or Kontinental Hockey League cannot compete against most NHL teams. Look at the off-season exhibition games, there are many euro teams that give the NHL a run for their money.

- You can say that the NHL was not trying
-You can say that the NHL teams did not have their best players
- You can say lucky...

I say, of course the NHL teams were trying. They do not want to be embarrassed, some of these exhibition games have prize money for the winning roster like a big bonus. And I do not judge any team based on their starting or star players, I judge them on their full on roster and for the NHL i include their reserves, who of course are trying because that have to impress their coaches. Nonetheless, I guarantee everyone that the NHL would be shocked to see the level at which these elite euro teams are at now.

This type of tournament is VERY possible, just needs the right guy to work things. Same way how hockey use to have Eagleson, who helped create the summit series and the super series among other things.

The fairest way would be a 16-team tournament.

4 NHL teams (2 USA, 2 Canada)
4 KHL teams
2 Swe teams
2 Fin teams

3 teams depend on a european bracket between the best German, Swiss, Czech and Slovakian teams
1 the team that wins the highest European honor... Right now it seems like its the Continental Cup (Dragon en Route of France won)

The hosts will be an NHL team. Allowing the owners to be happy with getting revenue and publicity. The NHL will be okay as they too will gain publicity, revenue and help hockey growth.

Players- Prize money for final four rankings of tourny should spark interest from some of the best NHL talent who may not be willing. For any vacant spots or in general, this can be open for prospects and draftees or reserve players. Just like an exhibition game. The same way those players give it all on the ice to prove to their coaches they deserve a spot.

Sweet 16 bracket all the way to the final game.

I want to see whose the best team in the world, I also want to see what Euro teams can compete

Partagas

04-01-2012, 05:26 PM

SvenskaRiga

04-01-2012, 05:44 PM

Sanfords*

04-01-2012, 07:27 PM

Your comments are very appreciated:)

Thesensation19

04-03-2012, 09:19 AM

I based off the amount of teams from league rankings.
I took it off 2 years ago when the proposed idea for the Euro Champions league was announced.

The IIHF should rank each European nation. The NHL and KHL should have 3 teams each. So none of the final 4 would be an entire league.

Thats 6, and then 10 more teams should be included. Sweden, Finland, Czech, Swiss, Germany, Slovakia are the top 7 counties behind the KHL. Split the rankings into Tier classes, so the 2nd 3rd and 4th ranked Euro leagues are allowed 2 teams each. The 5 6 and 7 ranked teams are allowed 1 each. That makes now for 15 total teams.

I would think 16 total teams would be enough for the first league. Short and simple. So that leaves room for one more. The Continental Cup is the #1 tournament right now in Europe until the Euro Championship is developed. So I think the team that wins that should make that final spot.

16 teams now, create a bracket of 4 regions. 3 NHL teams should host each region. The final region could be another N. American city or a Russian city.

The NHL should send over 2 American teams, 2 Canadian teams. All other leagues should be dependent on sending over their championship or best team.

The NHL could send over any 4 but the final game should be like in a neutral site either toronto or Montreal I prefer Toronto cuz its a bigger market of all media in Canada and still a hockey mecca

saskriders

07-17-2012, 12:29 AM

I dont see why you wouldnt give the Swiss atleast a club and no way should the Continental Cup Champions be given a spot. The big countries and clubs dont care about that tournament or take part, only the smaller countries leagues take part, Rouen would be destroyed in every match.

I dont know where you got your stats, but no, the Swiss are not the only league to defeat the NHL.
http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/club-events/victoria-cup/nhl-euro-record.html

I say each big 7 should be guaranteed a team, and there should be a playoff for second tear countries (Switzerland, Germany, Belarus, Latvia, and over the past couple years maybe Norway, in my opinion) they could take 2 or 3 spots, and there could be a couple spots for teams from other leagues

Jonimaus

07-17-2012, 10:12 AM

I'm going to write what I've written before: The reason Champions league in football is so successful is because it's a tournament for the best teams in the world, and thus the best quality football in the world is played there.

Hockey does not need that, because all the best teams (except maybe 1 or 2 KHL teams) already plays in the same league.

The only way a team from Sweden or Finland for example could win would be if NHL sends their worst team and they play like they don't care.

vorky

07-17-2012, 10:34 AM

If we want European league with best clubs from all Europe, we need to have similar budget for players salaries. It is not possible to compete with clubs which have so much bigger budget. Can swedish, finnish, suiss etc clubs have budget like KHL clubs? I say slovak and many czech clubs can not.

В частности, границы «потолка зарплат» в Континентальной хоккейной лиге в будущем сезоне составят 250 миллионов рублей и 1,1 миллиарда рублей.
Salary cap for next season is 250 000 000 - 1 100 000 000 rubles (cca 7,7 mio - 34 mio USD),

wings5

07-19-2012, 12:29 AM

Theokritos

07-19-2012, 07:53 AM

Champions league only includes europe, certainly some clubs from Brazil and Argentina can challenge those teams.

Some KHL teams can probably challenge NHL teams. Still the best hockey players from Russia don't play in the KHL but in the NHL, just like in football the best players from Brazil and Argentina don't play in South America but in Europe.

South America : Europe (in Football) = KHL/Europe : NHL

Jonimaus

07-19-2012, 09:45 AM

Champions league only includes europe, certainly some clubs from Brazil and Argentina can challenge those teams.

You have got to be kidding me. The best teams from Argentina and Brazil would get CRUSHED. They are not even playing in the same division.

It's not like NHL and KHL, the money in football is in Europe, all the best players are playing in Europe. Guess what happens when there is a young excellent player in Brazil or whatever, he moves to Europe.

It's more like NHL and the SEL, the SEL is a pretty good hockey league, but they can't put up anything against any NHL club, and the only way a SEL team could win a game is if the NHL team doesn't care.

Theokritos

07-19-2012, 10:02 AM

You have got to be kidding me. The best teams from Argentina and Brazil would get CRUSHED. They are not even playing in the same division.

That's an exaggeration. Take a look at the results of the Intercontinental Cup and Club World Cup. The Europeans clearly have the edge since 1995, but the games are usually rather close. Santos getting crushed by Barcelona last year is a rare example.

Jonimaus

07-19-2012, 10:07 AM

That's an exaggeration. Take a look at the results of the Intercontinental Cup and Club World Cup. The Europeans clearly have the edge since 1995, but the games are usually rather close. Santos getting crushed by Barcelona last year is a rare example.

The cup world cup is something extremly minor in europe. It happens often the euro clubs don't even field their A-team. If the euro clubs played like it's champions league, they would crush the other teams 9/10.

wings5

07-19-2012, 10:13 AM

You have got to be kidding me. The best teams from Argentina and Brazil would get CRUSHED. They are not even playing in the same division.

It's not like NHL and KHL, the money in football is in Europe, all the best players are playing in Europe. Guess what happens when there is a young excellent player in Brazil or whatever, he moves to Europe.

It's more like NHL and the SEL, the SEL is a pretty good hockey league, but they can't put up anything against any NHL club, and the only way a SEL team could win a game is if the NHL team doesn't care.

Maybe you have the top tier teams in mind, I was speaking more of clubs like Basel and Copenhagen, the lower tier teams that make the competition but can easily be replaced by these top clubs across other continents.

Jonimaus

07-19-2012, 10:21 AM

Maybe you have the top tier teams in mind, I was speaking more of clubs like Basel and Copenhagen, the lower tier teams that make the competition but can easily be replaced by these top clubs across other continents.

Ah, well I figured you ment they would be able to compete with the top tier. Then yes you are right, but the lower tier clubs are rarely consistent participaters (spelling) in champions league. But the top clubs from argentina and brazil would most likely be able to squeeze in.

Theokritos

07-19-2012, 10:50 AM

The cup world cup is something extremly minor in europe. It happens often the euro clubs don't even field their A-team. If the euro clubs played like it's champions league, they would crush the other teams 9/10.

Liverpool did field the A-team in 2005. 0-1 against São Paulo.
Barcelona did field the A-team in 2006. 0-1 against Internacional Porto Alegre.
Manchester did field the A-team in 2008. 1-0 against Quito, close score.
Barcelona did field the A-team (Iniesta was injured) in 2009. 2-1 after extra time against Boca Juniors, close score.

saffronleaf

10-02-2012, 12:18 PM

The fairest way would be a 16-team tournament.

4 NHL teams (2 USA, 2 Canada)
4 KHL teams
2 Swe teams
2 Fin teams

3 teams depend on a european bracket between the best German, Swiss, Czech and Slovakian teams
1 the team that wins the highest European honor... Right now it seems like its the Continental Cup (Dragon en Route of France won)

So one or no swiss teams ?
Do you know that only the swiss teams have defeated NHL teams ? ZCS Lions won Victoriacup vs Chicago Blackhawks and Zug defeated New York Rangers (with full roster) some months ago.

To be honest, that's a bit eurocentric and not reflective of the proportion fans, finance and talent in the world for hockey.

I think a 16-team champions league with 8 NA teams and 8 Euro teams would be more fair. 4 KHL, 1 SEL, 1 SM-liiga, 1 DEL, 1 NLA.

I think there's a good chance that the NHL will expand to 32 teams and have 8 per conference (like the realignment proposal from the NHL). 2 teams per conference from the NHL.

GBG Glenn

10-27-2012, 04:53 PM

Don't think the players would take the tournement so serious. There is a tournement called "Europe Trophy (?)" that pretty much no one follows.

10-28-2012, 05:03 PM

The biggest problem with ET is invitation only, no KHL-teams, small price money, to much games, and to much games during pre season.

I think they shuold copy CL, 32 temas 8 groups. 4 places for 4 best russian KHL-team, SEL, NLA, DEL, SM-liga and extraliga (third team in czech gets to qualify against Lev Praha) gets 3 team each. KHL-teams, Riga, Minsk, Donbass, Barys and Slovan qualify's against best domestic league team. Last league to receive automatic berth is EBEL. That gives 24 teams. Then the best teams from Denmark, Italy, Norway, GB, France, Poland, Holland, Romania, Slovenia, Austria, Hungary and Croatia qualification rounds. For the 4 latter countries, it only applies to those countries who do not receive a place via EBEL berth.

Then the champions faces the Stanley Cup winner in a super final. I think it's impossible to get NHL-teams to compete in the actual tournament.

Thesensation19

10-28-2012, 07:59 PM

4 NHL teams (2 USA, 2 CAN)
4 KHL teams

After this. The IIHF will rank the rest of the leagues around the world (no AHL).

I would suggest to make 20 final teams so you can have 4 groups of 5 teams each.

Were looking at:
Finland, Sweden, Czech, Swiss, Germany, Austria, Italy, Slovakia and some others maybe. The IIHF will rank them in strength of league, popularity and according to the rankings the league is allowed to send 1 or 2 teams. And I would like at least one of the teams to their leagues champions. My predictions below as follows in ()

The next 3 leagues are allowed to send in 2 teams. (Sweden, Swiss, Finland)
The next 3 leagues are allowed to send 1 teams. (Czech, Germany, Austria)

That makes 17 teams and leaves 3 open

Idk how, but leave it open in some way where you can have underdogs and dark horse teams fight their way into the big show. Take 1 from another smaller Euro tourny, or make a qualifier where a dozen of Europes best and popular compete for final 3 or 2 or whathave you...

Like Soocer/Football, I would like the NHL season to take breaks from time to time and allow for a few days for tournaments like this... or national games for qualifying or Olympics or whatever.

- Cut the NHL season from 82 to 66 or so. Every so often take an NHL break like the all star game and use the time to play these kind of tournaments or focus on international hockey.

- Allow the NHL to host all games in their group for revenue and profit. Allow the NHL teams or NHL to host the knockout stage games. I expect not all the group games to be heavily in demand so it would make for cheap tickets that fans die for.

- The 20 players on the roster for 3rd,2nd and 1st place get prize money. To be allowed on knockout stage roster you have to have played a certain amount in the group stages.

- Many NHLers will be told not too, some will choose not too play for the tournament and focus energy on nhl games only. I am sure there will be plenty who would like the chance though to play as much as they can to represent the team and themselves. Others who wont or cant play can be replaced by the reserve guys. Best way for the coach to really get to know his young guys or farm players. Gives young kids more of a chance to play and show their stuff. Gives guys maybe like Redden to don a Ranger jersey again because cap wont be an issue and there might be space on Defense. A lot of the Euro guys have farm teams or junior squads too. Im fine with not seeing Gaborik in on these nights and see guys like Ryan Bourque get a shot on the roster. But it wont get rid of all the skill, players love playing and they will want the money they think they can win.

Rink size is a factor. I would like to keep it NHL rink size, IIHF rules. Olympic 2010 status.

The 82 to 66 game season is a plus, a lot of teams are complaining that they lose money for the first 2 months of the year. Some complain they lose money at the end.

Thesensation19

10-28-2012, 08:08 PM

I think an idea like mine is ideal...

NHL owners would love for the players to make a name for themselves as long as they are playing under their jersey and doing it to win games for their teams, not others. Also its a plus for NHL owners to make revenue... Its a plus for fans to go to games that are cheaper as well, so many people i know cant or refuse to spend the $$ you see.

It gives the NHL teams the ability to try out their draft picks, give guys some attempts and get closer to all players.

European teams playing NHL teams are always a plus. Huge showcase for them.

Best thing is that I think there are many teams in Europe that could compete in such a tournament. I feel like you can see some classic upsets, some good games.

Its really good for hockey too, NHL and IIHF working together for hockey growth which effects their own growth as well.

If cutting the NHL season down, or doing this throughout the season is forbidded (idk why) then I would like to see this at least pre season. At least do it early season, before WINTER CLASSIC.

I wnat to seeeeeee NHL vs other teams hahaha

NHL season...
September 1st training camp and 20 teams are set for tournament
Sept- Oct some group games
Oct 15th season starts

Nov- Break for group games

December- Break to finish group games

best 2 from each group go into bracket...

Jan 1st- Winter Classic

Jan 20th- All star week and CHampions league final four.

Finish the season in April

NHl playoffs... STANLEY CUP, WC etc.

Every 2 years have a World Cup of Hockey... Every 2 years rotating that Olympics
Every year WC.

I WANT MORE HOCKEY lol

Thesensation19

10-28-2012, 08:16 PM

Don't think the players would take the tournement so serious. There is a tournement called "Europe Trophy (?)" that pretty much no one follows.

Europeans will follow games that are against the NHL

The NHL will have a hard time getting people to follow games against Europeans, but if they host the games then they can make money. They can even supply cheap tickets... more people would go and you can grow your teams popularity in the mean time.

Not every NHL player will take it serious but...

1) You hold prize money. Victoria cup had the winning team all receive like 20,000 dollars. Have the 3rd, 2nd and 1st place team have prize money. So more players will be keen on wanting to play. You still will find yourself with a differ full roster though...

2) So you replace the guys who wont spend their time and energy on this tournament and fill it with the dozens of prospects and AHL or ECHL guys you have. These guys will take this chance seriously to prove to their coach they can play at a top level and fill in roles. Im sure 3rd and 4th liners will have no problem doing the same and taking more serious roles to sharpen their skills throughout the season.

3) Even though their is prize money, it only goes to the knockout stage rosters. The knockout stage rosters cannot change after a certain point and they can only be made up of players who played a certain amount during the group stage. To prevent good worthy players from losing a job because all of a sudden a superstar wants to make a pretty penny.

4) European players will love the chance with the spotlight on them to play NHL players and teams.

5) Gives back up goalies more of a chance to play... gives prospect goalies more time to play and get extra time in.

I think their will be some upsets and the tournament will hit big... if done correctly and marketed well.
Huge thing is live television... website... youtube videos andddd cheap tickets

I think the cheap tickets are a must. You can increase it as the tournament gets more serious but a game agains the Sweden 2nd team you can allow cheap tickets for fans to enjoy and watch.

I can see not an NHL team winning this tournamnet because its knockout and that can cause a stur. A stur in the hockey world like that could make it bigger around the world and permit this every year. Plus i wanna see who would win

Thesensation19

10-28-2012, 08:19 PM

To be honest, that's a bit eurocentric and not reflective of the proportion fans, finance and talent in the world for hockey.

I think a 16-team champions league with 8 NA teams and 8 Euro teams would be more fair. 4 KHL, 1 SEL, 1 SM-liiga, 1 DEL, 1 NLA.

I think there's a good chance that the NHL will expand to 32 teams and have 8 per conference (like the realignment proposal from the NHL). 2 teams per conference from the NHL.

I guess more fair... but 8 NHL teams would increase the already huge odds they haveto win. This is about whose country has the best hockey team... thats it. So give each league an ability to send its best and the worlds best and see who ends up on top.

-NHL hosts games
-Prize Money
-Gives prospects, role players, reserves more chance to show their stuff
- NHL and IIHF working together to grow the game
- Gives more ability to showcase teh WORLDS best talent.

Johnyrocket

11-08-2012, 08:15 PM

I like the idea but I would do the Champions League every 2 years.

2014 Olympics
2015 Champions League
2016 World Cup of Hockey
2017 Champions League

We need the NHL & IIHF to be more in sync with each other and participate mutually. A Champions League could surely work if there is more space between the tourney (like the proposed 2 years) and if the NHL sanctioned full participation. Perhaps if the NHL takes control in helping organize the Champions League & even the World Cup while recognizing and respecting the level of competition from other leagues, it could really take off. The CL trophy shouldn't be more important than say, the Stanley Cup, but perhaps they could create a meaningful trophy that can capture the essence of the SC on a world wide scale.

With respect to the World Championships, I think they should stay the course, or perhaps also switch to a 2 year schedule as to not overlap with the Olympics & World Cup.

Johnyrocket

11-08-2012, 08:28 PM

Johnyrocket

11-08-2012, 08:33 PM

Thesensation19

11-09-2012, 02:51 PM

I forgot, make a different country host each World Cup, like in soccer. Also do the same for the Champions League. Imagine, the 2015 IIHF Champions League hosted by Poland/Ukraine or the 2016 World Cup of Hockey hosted Germany. Make a spectacle and an event out of it, the crowds and the interest will follow. The problem now is these things are poorly organized and poorly marketed.

We def need to "soccerfy" the sport a bit, it wont hurt. Can even grow the game in new territories such as England, France, etc.

Some examples :)

2017 IIHF Champions League hosted by United States
2019 IIHF Champions League hosted by Sweden/Finland
2020 World Cup of Hockey hosted by Czech/Slovakia
2021 IIHF Champions League hosted by England
2023 IIHF Champions League hosted by Canada
Etc...

Poland and Ukraine was held for the European Championship of international teams but the Champions League of soccer. The Champions league of soccer is played (The UEFA CL) in every city of the team competing in it.

Then UEFA chooses a CITY in Europe to host the final championship game.

The biggest problem with a champions league tournament is having the NHL actually participate. For them to participate, they will need to

1) Get most of the revenue of this
2) Probably host the games
3) Players and team will need some kind of prize money
4) and some one better be good at presenting things, showing them how good it could be working with the IIHF in such a big tournament and how they can go about this...

Thesensation19

11-09-2012, 03:03 PM

Want to add another thing. I would have no problem with the NHL icing so-called "B" squads with part of the big club players and part prospects from the AHL. If its only a few spots then I wouldn't mind too much.

Exactly...

1) Prize money for top 3 teams. Prize money for players who win major awards for tournament.

2) Allow NHL to host a majority if not all the games, at least the ones they play. So less traveling and stress.

3) Allow NHL teams (goes really for any team) to choose rosters from their affiliated teams. But put restrictions... So NHL teams dont just send over only ECHL guys.

For a team, for example lets say the New York Rangers... if they were in it you might see

Marian Gaborik may or may not play in the tournament, but because he might have a chance for more ice time or play against friends/family or ex teams... he might. For a team like Pittsburgh, I cant see Crosby being inclined for this but maybe Malkin would.

(Rangers again) 3rd, 4th line, 3rd pairing D might like the prize money idea... or maybe guys like Boyle would love the opportunity to play a bigger role under his coach or for the Rangers.

European players like Ovechkin who love being in any game for any reason... would prob love to do this no matter what his owners tell him to do lol.

AHL players would be inclined to do this for the money and more opportunity to play not only under a real NHL jersey but a chance to show scouts what they can do at the pro level, especially prospects or guys who want 2nd chances like Wade Redden or anyone really.

Thesensation19

11-09-2012, 03:41 PM

O yea, and im sure back up goalies like Biron would love the extra ice time and shots in a real game if a starter like Lundqvist chooses to take this time for breaks.

To stop NHL teams from changing the rosters to much, or allowing NHL players to choosing a time when they feel they want to play in a tournament like this... the rules will go as follows

30 players can be chosen for this tournament. They just have to be signed to the club, or an affiliated pro team.
For NHL teams... No more than 5 guys can be chosen on this 30 man roster from the ECHL. At least 3 guys have to be two way players from the AHL/NHL. Salary does not matter in this case.

ONLY ONCE (prior to the tournaments quarter finals) can a team take ONE player from outside the 30 man list and switch it into the playable roster. Unless injury occurs, than a player MUST be replaced. 20 players can be chosen to dress, at least two players must be reserved for game times and the rest can do whatever the team wishes upon them. I chose the only once rotation cuz you never know when a team finds a new talent or an NHL player wants to actually participate lol. But we dont want every NHL player who chose not to at first, come in when he finds out his team will go far and win money or the tournamnet is bigger than expected. So one is permitted

After the group stages, the team must choose a roster of 24 guys from the 30 man list to compete for the rest of the tournament. These 24 guys will receive the prize money if the team makes the final 3 placements.

Start it with either 14 or 20 teams from around the world. The NHL will have 4 teams, the KHL will have 4 teams. Each NHL team will host one group. So 4 groups of 4 or 5, with one KHL team in each one. The Final 2 teams come out of the group after playing 1 game round robin each team.

so now you have 8 teams come out for a knock out stage. I think a series for this would be too long, but maybe one game elimination or 2 legs... Elimination might make for a better story and exciting play.

Knock out stage all the way to the finals and one game elimination like the supoer bowl or UEFA champions league.

Each game, changing on whether its a Group Stage, Knock out stage or championship or 3rd place game, should have split revenue.

The Host team (or arena) should get a majority
The visiting team should get some
The rest of the money should go into a tournament fund for hockey funds and tournament prizes

Any game that the NHL plays should be played in the NHL or at least a majority of their games so they will be more inclined to host and participate. All final games should be played at a single location or at least in NHL arena. Any game that the NHL is not part of, can be used in North America but its up to teams playing. All teams making some money out of this will make European teams money and be more willing to participate next year.

Something like

Group Stage
Host- 60%
Away-20%
Pot- 20%

Knockout Stage
Host-65%
Away- 15%
Pot- 20%

3rd place game (NHL arena must)
Host-50%
Pot- 50%

Championship (set location chosen prior to start of tournament like Montreal)
Host team- 60%
Pot- 40%

The pot $$$ will go to charities and help with awards and prize money. The rest of the prize money comes from donations and tournament fees.

Charities- 40% of the pot
1st place-30% of the pot plus bonus checks (like Victoria Cup) plus trophy they get to keep at their arena for life
2nd place- 15% of pot plus bonus checks
3rd place- 10% of the pot
Awards- 5% plus trophy

In the victoria cup, some guy in Swiss paid the winner of the team like 40,000 Franks. Something like that... plus thats just the pot from revenue... not including other donations and stuff.

^^^^^^ Jus a simple model, could obviously change... just trying to keep the small teams an incentive for being part of a big elite tournamet so it helps them make $$$ and grow for next year. The NHL and host makes most of the $$$, mostly cuz i dont think NHL owners care unless there making $$$$ and their superstars r safe.

Tournament awards-
MVP
Offensive player (Not best forward, best offensive producer)
Def player (not best d man, just best defender)
Goalie
Best young guy (under 21 or 23 or something depending on avg)
Best coach
Hardest worker
stuff like that

Thesensation19

11-09-2012, 03:44 PM

Johnyrocket

11-10-2012, 08:07 PM

No way... every year. This is a club match...

Do it like Soccer

4 years Olympics
4 years World Cup
4 years Europ Cup
Every year Champions League
Every year Super Cup

Hockey

Every 4 years Winter Olympics
Every 4 years rotating on that is World Cup of Hockey by the NHL
Every year do a WJC
Every year do a WC

For club level do every year Champions league...

I could live with your proposal, but I think it would be too much for the NHL in regards to participation & might be over saturating the hockey world with tournaments & championships.

If you do Olympics & World Cup every 4 years but rotating so they are 2 years apart, the best would be then to fill the other two years in every 4 year cycle with a Champion's League. The reasoning behind this is the NHL would only have to focus on 1 major tourney every year, which is probably more appealing to them. If you make the CL every two years it gives it more imortance and also there would be more of a focus strictly on the CL during "off years" when there are no Olympics or World Cups being played. In odd numbered years, the Champions League would be the premier hockey event right up there with the Stanley Cup.

World Championships can continue as they are for all I care.

NicoSB

11-12-2012, 05:21 AM

:p: As much as I like your ideas and I would appreciate a Champions League(even if it's
only open for European teams) I don't see it taking place succesfully. There are waaaay to much problems.

1) As already mentioned, international hockey isn't popular at least in Switzerland but I'm sure this counts for several if not most countries. E.g. have a look at CHL 2009(?). What ZSC achieved was a miracle. They beat not only Swedish and Finnish teams but also defeated Metallurg, I guess. As it wouldn't be already enough they went forward for Victoria Cup (afaik there was NO prize money) defeating Chicago. Yes there was media presence in Switzerland, national TV broadcasting at least semi finals and stuff. But noone remembers it while everyone knows about FC Basel achieving a 3-3 at Manchester etc in 200x.
On the other hand there is Spengler Cup around Xmas recieving much presence in tv and Newspapers.

2) There isn't really an organisator with enough money. Since Gazprom stopped their sponsorship with CHL there has not been a "gapfiller". I don't see Gazprom rejoining IIHF since their engagement in KHL is big! So who is left interested and able to pay enough money? There is only Skoda in my opinion but their sponsoring in hockey is already big. So this leads us to the next problem:

3) Neither KHL nor NHL show a big interest in an international cup. KHL wants to be the "European Hockey League". A cup lowers their chance to achieve their goal imo, giving European teams the chance to compete in a prestigeful tournament.
NHL on the other hand might be afraid of losing their leading position in hockey. It is a show league, therefore a team has to play as much games as possible and playing without breaks to prevent disappearing from media. International games are less attracting since their niveau is (said to be) way lower. So breaks are bad for a market. I am not speaking about the true fans but about the long tail of unfrequent spectators. This market is huge and mostly in competition with other sports like Football etc. Without one of these premier leagues there is no force in a competition. E.g. who of you follows European Trophy (remember we are unrepresentiv!).

4.) Most teams struggle with their finances. Fligts in the USA or even eastern Russia are expensive and if there is no revenue out of away games, there is no interest in affording these expenses. On the other hand sponsoring COULD be more interesting since their reach doesn't stop at national borders. Hard to say.

saskriders

11-12-2012, 05:50 PM

stv11

11-13-2012, 03:20 AM

1) As already mentioned, international hockey isn't popular at least in Switzerland but I'm sure this counts for several if not most countries. E.g. have a look at CHL 2009(?). What ZSC achieved was a miracle. They beat not only Swedish and Finnish teams but also defeated Metallurg, I guess. As it wouldn't be already enough they went forward for Victoria Cup (afaik there was NO prize money) defeating Chicago. Yes there was media presence in Switzerland, national TV broadcasting at least semi finals and stuff. But noone remembers it while everyone knows about FC Basel achieving a 3-3 at Manchester etc in 200x.
On the other hand there is Spengler Cup around Xmas recieving much presence in tv and Newspapers.

I don't agree with your points here. The quality of hockey in the Eliteserien, SM-Liiga, NLA, DEL and Czech Extraliga is close, ZSC beating Linköping, Slavia and Blues is not a miracle as any of those teams are capable of beating each other. Beating a KHL team is an upset, but it's not a Basel over Man U level of upset either.

Regarding the popularity of international competition, it all comes down to marketing. Clubs that have shown interest in them have made a good job selling them: ZSC had well attendend Continental Cup and Champions' league games, Lugano sold out their games when the organised the EHL final four in 2000 and brought 300 fans to St. Petersburg for the European champions cup in 2007, and Ambrì did well creating interest during their Continental cup runs 10 years ago. On the other hand, Bern had multiple opportunities to play in international competitions but never cared one bit for them and it shows in their attendances, and Fribourg treated the 98-99 EHL as a burden.

E.g. who of you follows European Trophy (remember we are unrepresentiv!).

The European trophy is an invitational tournament played in the preseason, definitely not a good example of an international competition.

4.) Most teams struggle with their finances. Fligts in the USA or even eastern Russia are expensive and if there is no revenue out of away games, there is no interest in affording these expenses. On the other hand sponsoring COULD be more interesting since their reach doesn't stop at national borders. Hard to say.

In a successful champions' league, teams would earn enough money to pay for their travel expenses.

Thesensation19

11-13-2012, 11:31 AM

What is the super cup?

The Super Cup is a game between the UEFA champions vs the UEFA Europa Champions.

I like the idea of saturating the INTERNATIONAL tournaments that the best of the best play in... But I feel it is too saturated right now. I truly believe a huge role in the last Olympics being such a huge viewing success was the Winter Classic and the rise of the NHL popularity. But waiting every 4 years for best on best hockey is too much. I feel we should have a best on best every 2 years... Olympics then World Cup of Hockey.

Allow World Championship to occur every year so you can have an accurate yearly rating system of each country based on skill but more importantly depth in the system and countries.

But that is the international stage.

All I want to see now is clubs starting to play more between countries... Europe already has that. KHL is pretty mixed with countries and expanding. Plus there are already European tournaments of all sorts.

What I feel now is that its time for the best clubs in the world to come together to not only promote hockey but really see who is the best club in the world. Every year the best clubs from each of the best leagues in the world and then some come together in a tournament thats quite different.

Would the NHL win? Could the KHL teams win...

Thesensation19

11-13-2012, 11:51 AM

This tournament will be big if the best teams from Europe participate. But it will be much larger if the NHL participated. It hardly matters what NHL teams but I would say 2 USA and 2 Canadian. Global popularity would increase as your watching lets say Montreal, Toronto, Detroit and New York.

Now for some fans in Russia which there team will not be participating in this tournament will be more hopeful to watch because maybe Datsyuk will participate. Fans in Sweden Froulnda Sweden may not care about this tournament so much, unless they find out guys like Zetterberg, Lundqvist and maybe future NHL prospects are involved. Basically global popularity will increase by having the NHL involved. More sponsors, more investors, more views.

How do you get the NHL involved. Promote the tournament in North America. Allow the NHL rinks to host the tournament and fill seats. NHL season tickets are expensive, but a tournament like this can be sold with cheap tickets promoting hockey for all. Tourism in North America would increase. Allow host cities and rinks to get a share of the revenue. So there making money off this... thats how you get the owners involved.

Not all NHL players will be likely to play in this tournament but promote prize money and some will join. 3rd and 4th liners will use this too get more $$ in a tournament they feel they can win but also use the time to show the coaches what they can do with more playing time and more responsibility or just plain out practice. Because theirs prize money they will be inclined to try harder. This gives time to see what prospects, rookies are made up of. Guys like Wade Redden who are prob bored in the AHL could get their time to don a NHL jersey one more time without having to reject their current contract in making overpriced millions and the organization will not care to play them because their experienced and theirs no salary cap.

NHL owners are losing $$$ for the first quarter and then some during the NHL season. Many fans do not care about an 82 game season. Cut the NHL season to around 66 games and promote by weeks which in this time can be used for international play like this tournament. Or to allow Russians to go play for their country in tournaments. And give guys rest when needed.

European teams want a champions league but they cant get investors yet. So influence the NHL to join in on the fun.

Allow them to choose what 4 teams will be involved but with guidelines. 1 of the 4 teams must be a playoff team at least. 2 canadian, 2 american. Tell them they can host up to 70% of the tournament games and sell tickets with a shared revenue. They can host up to 90% of the games they play with at least 1 or 2 games they fly over in Europe to promote hockey. Tell them theirs prize money for the teams that win it and for the players involved.

Tell them they can host the championship game even if they are not in it. Tell them if they are in the final 4, they will host it. They can host every knockout stage game they are playing in. Shared revenue but they get the majority

New York Rangers...
Dolan can use this to promote cheaper tickets to allow people who usually cant afford watching Ranger games to come on down. Cheap tickets will sell especially in New York. So long as its the NEW YORK RANGERS jersey they are wearing.

It is not the players we watch, we watch the team...

But I can see Marty Biron taking starting role in this to get more time during the season to play
I can see guys like Boyle, Hailey, Asham and other 3rd and 4th line fan favs taking this time to practice their skill and play in a better role
I can see maybe Lundqvist playing one game. I can see Hagelin taking the time to play some
I can see Kreider wanting to do this to show coaches what he can do on a bigger stage consistantly. Same goes fro all our prospects
I can see some ECHL guys playing

I want to see more of the Rangers use their entire roster for the NHl and this tournament

NicoSB

11-13-2012, 04:40 PM

I don't agree with your points here. The quality of hockey in the Eliteserien, SM-Liiga, NLA, DEL and Czech Extraliga is close, ZSC beating Linköping, Slavia and Blues is not a miracle as any of those teams are capable of beating each other. Beating a KHL team is an upset, but it's not a Basel over Man U level of upset either.

As I already mentioned, ZSC beat Metallurg in the finals that happens to be a KHL team. Although KHL had only been launched a couple of months before everyone knew that ZSC were the biig underdog, especially because of the media. Hockey had and has rarely been shown in freetv but Swiss tv did well on that chance.
I am quite surprised by the numbers you're giving, so perhaps I have to reconsider my point of view.

Regarding European Trophy I must admit that it is more likely a preparation tournament but diehard fans would never ever miss this rare chance of watching international games but if I may take the ET thread over here as a indicator it doesn't seem like there is a big interest in watching them. However, Red Bull Salute should be more serious business but we'll know soon.

Last but not least I have to agree with. your points about finances but no one knows if there will actually be a successful tournament.

Thesensation19

11-14-2012, 08:35 AM

I live in New York, USA. With no NHL, its a real shame because I really have nothing else. I do not have the NHLNetwork tv channel but even with that it could still SUCK. Need some hockey on TV

But even with an NHL season... Sometimes I wish they can cut back on the 82 game schedule and create international weeks. Where clubs play international tournaments or allow players to play for their country. 4/5 per month.

I love hockey and I would love to see, plus i think it be the best thing for hockey, to see more countries and their pro clubs play international tournaments especially wth the NHL involved.

Thesensation19

11-14-2012, 09:00 AM

1) Europeans have some and have been trying to recreate a CL tourny but a lack of funds have stopped it. So if a Champions League would be an amazing show of hockey, how do you bring it back and how do you make it better?

A: Get the KHL involved... But even bigger, get the NHL involved. Getting NHL involvement would get the KHL full interest in and other investors and other sponsors.

2) How do you get the KHL more involved? Get the NHL involved. How do you get the NHL involved and make sure there using real talent?

A: Make sure in return for NHL participation with a good roster, their owners and their league will be given the chance to host the games PLUS get a majority of the shared revenue. Plus include prize money for individuals and the team for ranking top 3 and for award winners. They do not have to use their full NHL roster, but they need to include at LEAST some NHL guys, mostly AHL guys and are allowed to use ECHL players to fill in voids.

3) When will the tournament be played?
16 teams will play... 4 groups of 4 1 game round robin. Best 2 come out alive leaves 8 knock out stage teams. 4 rounds in KO
A:
September- NHL trianing camp, Group Stages start, Pre season begins
October- NHL season starts, Group Stages finish
November- First round of KO stage.
December- WC Coverage and Qtr Finals to be played.
January- WC... Semi Finals to be played.
February- Champions League Final and 3rd place game
March---
******* CL WILL NOT INTERFERE WITH THIS*******
April- NHL Playoffs Start
May- NHL Stanley Cup
June- NHL Stanley Cup

The teams not involved will have an NHL season break but can practice. Unless its during All star break then they can participate in the NHL All Star Week.

Something along these lines^^^^

Hasa92

11-14-2012, 02:46 PM

garbageteam

11-14-2012, 07:06 PM

This is actually my wet dream, i'm so jealous at soccer fans cause they have much more interesting tournament's and they're not doing em every year like IIHF does.

It's so ironic that many Finnish soccer fans are jealous of hockey because it has more fan's, get's more media exposure and is more successful than soccer in Finland.

Well, at least in Hockey, we have a league where almost all the best players play (just not this year).

I'm fine with IIHF's yearly WHC. I just count them as friendlies like in soccer as the real song and dance is the Olympics, just like the Fifa WC (note I am NOT discrediting any team that does well in it - they deserve the respect and IIHF points, just crowning a champion yearly for a national team is kind of silly). The hockey national teams rarely ever play each other outside of the WHC so it's good to get a sense of where things are at annually. Even with the annual tournament I think national teams in soccer still play more games than hockey.

If that KHL 64 team megaleague ever takes off, we might have a shot for a Champions league tournament. In all honesty the BEST you can realistically hope for is for it to be like the FIFA Club World Cup if you want the NHL involved... they are too stuck in their North American centric world view. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_FIFA_Club_World_Cup

Club World Cup could get one champion from each of the following groups:

NHL
KHL
SM-liiga champion
Extraliga
Elitserien
Play-in spot (Challenged between Swiss, German, Latvian, etc. leagues)

SM-liiga champ would play Elitserien champ, Extraliga champ to play the play-in spot (could be drawn randomly every tournament). Winner of these two games would then challenge one of the NHL or KHL champions depending on a draw. Final to be played between the last standing two teams. Get rid of the third place match.

That's really the only way to happen. You're not gonna get the NHL champions to commit to playing more than one or two games out of season after a grueling 82 game regular season, plus 20+ game postseason.

Johnyrocket

11-15-2012, 12:52 AM

Thesensation19

11-15-2012, 11:29 AM

I'm fine with IIHF's yearly WHC. I just count them as friendlies like in soccer as the real song and dance is the Olympics, just like the Fifa WC (note I am NOT discrediting any team that does well in it - they deserve the respect and IIHF points, just crowning a champion yearly for a national team is kind of silly). The hockey national teams rarely ever play each other outside of the WHC so it's good to get a sense of where things are at annually. Even with the annual tournament I think national teams in soccer still play more games than hockey.

If that KHL 64 team megaleague ever takes off, we might have a shot for a Champions league tournament. In all honesty the BEST you can realistically hope for is for it to be like the FIFA Club World Cup if you want the NHL involved... they are too stuck in their North American centric world view. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_FIFA_Club_World_Cup

Club World Cup could get one champion from each of the following groups:

NHL
KHL
SM-liiga champion
Extraliga
Elitserien
Play-in spot (Challenged between Swiss, German, Latvian, etc. leagues)

SM-liiga champ would play Elitserien champ, Extraliga champ to play the play-in spot (could be drawn randomly every tournament). Winner of these two games would then challenge one of the NHL or KHL champions depending on a draw. Final to be played between the last standing two teams. Get rid of the third place match.

That's really the only way to happen. You're not gonna get the NHL champions to commit to playing more than one or two games out of season after a grueling 82 game regular season, plus 20+ game postseason.

Friendlies? Thats stupid. I am tired of people dismissing good hockey especially the WC. Professionals and great athletes play in these tournaments and it is a huge value to rate countries on a yearly basis. I love watching it, a friendly is when both teams have nothing to win. In hockey, ESPECIALLY a World Championship, there is always something to win. Maybe if the US cared more about it we would actually have a stronger nation like Canada and Russia.

I do like the idea of every countries previous champion playing a round robin tournament. Each team plays every other team once or twice and then the top 2 standings get to play one final game

Thesensation19

11-15-2012, 11:33 AM

I don't know about you guys, but I would watch a Champions League as closely as I do the Stanley Cup Playoffs. I'm really interested in other leagues but it's hard to get info or broadcasts in the US. If the Champions League was done right, the presentation could be spectacular and on par with the playoffs or Winter Classic. Getting to see the history behind the teams and the leagues they represent before & during matches would be great!

Like I said before, even if the NHL teams wouldn't ice their A squads, it would be cool to see a team of 3rd & 4th liners along with prospects representing the team. That within itself would be a fresh view and also lens itself to give fans a preview of young players in the system. Besides that, think how cool it would be of your team's B squad made a run in the Champ's League or even won it all! It would be really exciting!

Why the NHL, KHL & IIHF don't do a Champions League already is mind boggling to me.

Edit: I'm a Devils fan & I would watch the team even if they iced a bunch of scrubs. I'm a fan of the team first & who the team represents, so watching any form of the team would be exciting.

This is actually a bad thing that the NHL does not even do. They have a hard time devoting time to talk about the match up, the team the history. They do a short stint about previous games, they spread some info that barely catches you attention but look at the NBA NFL and MLB. They detailed time and focus in properly getting exciting info to the viewers.

When ESPN covered KHL games, it was a disaster. They dismissed every block shot as an accident, they acted like they dont hit... but there was plenty i saw. They laughed at every name and they even admitted to not knowing a THING about the KHL or its teams.

Coverage of the sport in America is Horrid. And this on all levels needs to be fixed... This is why ESPN did not win the NHL contract. They wanted us for what we became, not what they saw our potential to be

Thesensation19

11-15-2012, 11:35 AM

Thesensation19

11-15-2012, 11:37 AM

A world cup of the worlds hockey champions would be best. As much as I would like to see a Champions League, I think A world Cup would be easier.

Eidyia

11-15-2012, 11:53 AM

NicoSB

11-15-2012, 01:26 PM

This wont make sense until we have at least ten good professional leagues. And they should be pretty evenly matched also if this tournament would make sense.

Now we have NHL -> KHL ---> Elitserien/SM-liiga/NLA/Extraliga/DEL--> Slovakia/Austria--> Etc...

Long story short: Too much parity. NHL is the Champions League of Hockey already, and KHL is the UEFA Cup, if you will. ;)

This is way toooo close minded. As I said ZSC beat Metallurg AND Chicago. And both played with their best lineup (e.g. Kane played). Minor Teams will always be motivated as hell when playing against NHL / KHL team.
So you could say champions football league is ridiculous since only clubs from England, Germany or Spain and perhaps Italy are even able to win the competition, bad leagues like Switzerland, Belgium, Greece etc. shouldn't be allowed.
But in reality their part of the game, their the ones that make groupstage interesting. They're never underestimating the big clubs which is why they sometimes kick out favourites.

Eidyia

11-15-2012, 01:37 PM

This is way toooo close minded. As I said ZSC beat Metallurg AND Chicago. And both played with their best lineup (e.g. Kane played). Minor Teams will always be motivated as hell when playing against NHL / KHL team.
So you could say champions football league is ridiculous since only clubs from England, Germany or Spain and perhaps Italy are even able to win the competition, bad leagues like Switzerland, Belgium, Greece etc. shouldn't be allowed.
But in reality their part of the game, their the ones that make groupstage interesting. They're never underestimating the big clubs which is why they sometimes kick out favourites.

But in football we've got 20+ pro leagues in Europe alone. And the prize money is something to worth playing for.

I see your point but still those are marketing games for NHL-teams in their pre-season. What did they had to play against Zurich and Metallurg? Not to get injured.

And I prefer European hockey to NHL but I just don't see it happening, at least not as a transatlantic tournament.

Eidyia

11-15-2012, 01:40 PM

double post.

NicoSB

11-15-2012, 01:43 PM

Eidyia

11-15-2012, 01:55 PM

Thesensation19

11-16-2012, 08:51 AM

This wont make sense until we have at least ten good professional leagues. And they should be pretty evenly matched also if this tournament would make sense.

Now we have NHL -> KHL ---> Elitserien/SM-liiga/NLA/Extraliga/DEL--> Slovakia/Austria--> Etc...

Long story short: Too much parity. NHL is the Champions League of Hockey already, and KHL is the UEFA Cup, if you will. ;)

In a way your right... the NHL is the elite league where 95% of the best players in the world want to play. Its the most watched, most tracked and most exciting hockey there is. The playoffs are the legit version of champions league where every player wishes to be a part of whether they stink or are the best.

But it does not matter,
the NHL says its the best. The fans believe they are truly the best. They have many rights to believe so. But now its time to back it up! The Europeans have grown a lot over the last 10 years and they have to start showing their worth as well.

I want to see some NHL clubs play against some other Europeans in more meaningful games.

If you choose 4 NHL teams and then Europe's best 12 teams... maybe 6 of those teams cannot compete. Maybe. But I believe 6 of those teams could make some crazy upsets

Thesensation19

11-16-2012, 08:54 AM

This wont make sense until we have at least ten good professional leagues. And they should be pretty evenly matched also if this tournament would make sense.

Now we have NHL -> KHL ---> Elitserien/SM-liiga/NLA/Extraliga/DEL--> Slovakia/Austria--> Etc...

Long story short: Too much parity. NHL is the Champions League of Hockey already, and KHL is the UEFA Cup, if you will. ;)

The Champions league does not have to make sense only if there are 10 good leagues in Europe. The Champions League should be created to inspire other countries to join the hockey world.

Right now you have
NHL
KHL
Sweden
Finland
Czech

Right there you can have a pretty good tournament

Then you can add in more teams from Germany and Slovakia and Austria.

Add in a wildcard team, a French team shocked the world by winning a European tournament last year. I know its not the best Euro tournament but still... a french team.

You can easily make a 16 team league... 4 groups, each group holds an NHL and a KHL team. The other 2 teams are random order of rankings and lottery. I see a vision for this and it is beautiful.

NicoSB

11-16-2012, 09:05 AM

What about Switzerland? :<

But you can have a good tourney with Austria, Slovakia, Germany added, too. They wouldn't get blown away easily.

Thesensation19

11-16-2012, 09:07 AM

But in football we've got 20+ pro leagues in Europe alone. And the prize money is something to worth playing for.

I see your point but still those are marketing games for NHL-teams in their pre-season. What did they had to play against Zurich and Metallurg? Not to get injured.

And I prefer European hockey to NHL but I just don't see it happening, at least not as a transatlantic tournament.

Wrong. The Victoria Cup where Zurich beat Chicago and Metallburg lost to the NY Rangers were serious games and not meant for just some marketing scheme.

A IIHF representative from Switzerland believed in making his own championship game. One playoff worthy team from the NHL vs the European Champions from the year before. An amazing game. The Winner would win prize money, each player would win 40,000 franks. It may not be the millions the NHL is use to, but 40,000 franks is ALOT of dough that no player is ready to just give someone.

I am sure it was not your typical NHL stanley cup playoff aggressiveness but it was both an exciting game each team wanted to win. This was not the European tour they do every year that is meant for european marketing. This was a championship they played for. The NHL Stanley Cup winning team of the Blackhawks lost to European champions.

So thats how you get it started... You need investors. You need to promote the NHL and make sure they know they will receive some kind of $$ for playing and more money for winning.

Thesensation19

11-16-2012, 09:16 AM

In Europe there are at least 7 professional leagues (SM liiga, Eliteserien, NLA, EBEL, Extraliga, DEL, [KHL], Slovakian league). Make it a bit smaller, you don't need endless qualifiers and a main round with 32 teams. Make it like 16 teams and only one qualifying round.

Ofcourse, I won't lie to myself, Chicago didn't play their best hockey but still they are a team that should beat ZSC even in second gear. Metallurg had a motivation, there was a prizemony of 1,6 Mio Dollars, but they lost anyway.

I am pretty sure that both tournaments involved the winning team and the winning players prize money.

I am watching highlights now of the Chicago game and I watched the NY Ranger game live. There was not one instant that I thought the Rangers or Chicago was Half *** on in the game. They played hockey the way they knew how to play. There was hard fought goals, celebrations from both sides after each goal as though they scored a playoff goal, there were penalties and hits and it was a game for a trophy and prize money.

They played to win, both teams and only one NHL team came out on top. The other lost, but managed to win the Stanley Cup later that year.

The best champions league to start off with would be a 16 team league. 4 NHL teams. 4 KHL teams. 4 Groups with one NHL team in each. Each group plays each other member of the group once... top two teams come out on top and go to bracket.

One game winner. Makes it exciting and allows for more upsets.

Thesensation19

11-16-2012, 09:24 AM

I wonder why a Champions League in Europe has always been a problem?

The late 90s to the early 2000s showed a decline in hockey around the world.

Heck, even the NHL showed a crazy drop in ratings.

The Soviet government crashed and so did its beloved sports. Sports in Russia had to start over with no proper organization and no money.

The NHL and the Russian leagues suffered and hockey on a whole dropped. Croatia had no hockey team I ever heard about or could find online. Czech and Slovakia split apart and had to start leagues from basically nothing but in a worse situation than Russia.

There was no FUNDS and no interest in spending money for an expensive sport!

Yet look what has happened in the last 5-10 years.

The NHLs ratings have skyrocketed. The Winter Classic and the new rules brought excitement back to the game (as well as its players). NHL playoffs were on the rise again and records for TV views were broken.

The Russian Super League was reinvented to become the KHL where it finally has some real organization and real investors and real owners. They finally have legitimate owners who can pay proper wages and keep a team in the league. Farm teams for all KHL teams were created and even the 2nd tier league in Russia has gained much support. Its those Russian billionairs who are seeing a time to make money in hockey rather than lose it. And because the KHL promises growth, many teams all over Europe are buying in. Heck! The Croatian team might go play in there and they even inspired the Italian Hockey team of Milan to be promoted and attempt to join the KHL

Hockey in Russian and America have grown and so hockey in the world has grown. Technology has allowed for more efficient and cheaper ways of owning teams and building rinks and facilities. Asia hockey league has grown in the last 10 years to actual noticed numbers. Czech and Slovakia are growing because of it all. Croatia now has a real team that is ranked #12 in popularity in Europe.

And hockey will only grow from here...

Thesensation19

11-16-2012, 09:36 AM

What about Switzerland? :<

But you can have a good tourney with Austria, Slovakia, Germany added, too. They wouldn't get blown away easily.

calm yourself... I forgot them. I wasnt dismissing them. Wow, people get uptight. I was just listing anything that popped off my head... There are other leagues too!

And is that sarcasm on the bottom? No, I believe that Austria can send one or two teams that will compete fairly. Germany also has 2-3 teams. Slovakia has about 2-3 as well. And yes the Swiss have about 3-4.

If i created this tournament I would have

3 NHL (At least one playoff team, 1 east and 1 west. 2 Canadians and 1 USA)
3 KHL (Champion, 1 team from the east and 1 team from the west)

2 Swe (Champion, and playoff team)
2 Swiss (Champion and playoff team)
1 Fin (Champion)
1 Czech (Champion)
1 Aus (Champion)
1 Ger (Champion)

Wildcard--- Any other team away from the KHL, in Europe can go through a qualifying tournament to be the last two teams in the Champions league. Wildcard teams that wish to join must be a playoff team in their respective leagues within the top 10 ranked leagues or a runner up/champion in a previous European tournament of this or previous year

4 Groups... Each group hosted by 3 NHL teams and 1 KHL team (Champions)
Each group will have to play each team in that group once. Win, Tie, Loss. The two best record team will then go into a knockout bracket style tournament.

One game knockout to allow for more excitement and better possible upsets.
The bracket will be set up where the winners of each group will take on the 2nd winners of another group depending on record.

There will be a 3rd place game of the two losers in the semi finals. And a Championship game played. The NHL can host both these games.

NicoSB

11-16-2012, 10:06 AM

Thesensation19

11-16-2012, 01:00 PM

Ouh sorry, I wasn t offended at all. I knew you wouldn't put Austria over Switzerland on purpose. :P

However it was no sarcasm. EBEL is as far as I can judge developping well. They are improving from season to season. Germany is ofcourse able to compete with Europe's best teams, although they don't present themself badly at Spengler Cup.

I like your ideas but to be honest I'd rate SM-Liiga higher than NLA
So switch those and I'm in.

I never hear much about Finnish League. From my research, NLA has larger teams and its the central location of most IIHF neutral events including its home base. So maybe your right but idk... this is something the IIHF will have to discuss.

I really like the idea of a Champions League like the World Cup of clubs.
Where the champions of the top 8 leagues in the world take on each other. Either in bracket form or round robin. The top two teams face each other in a champion max

Johnyrocket

11-16-2012, 04:13 PM

As a Devils fan... would you watch a Champions League tournament even if the Devils do not participate. Honestly I think the best teams to represent America *(if we use 4 NHL teams, 2 US and 2 Canadian) would have to be any of the following...

1) Detroit- Hockeytown..
2) Boston... North East is truly hockey mecca in USA
3) New York Rangers- Exciting young team that proves that when there good, NHL ratings go up. 94 and 2012.
4) Minnesota Wild- Hockey state
5) LA Kings- NHL champions

No way. The NHL teams chosen should be teams that deserve to be there. I would send 2-4 of the ECF/WCF finalists, and then throw in a Canadian team or two. Even any team that made the playoff would be better than choosing based on markets or other non-factors.

The idea of a champions league is to put the best against the best, not a popularity contest.

If there were a Champions League, I would probably choose LA & NJ (both finalists), then NYR or Phx & the top Canadian team according to playoffs/standings (don't remember who it is).

And of course I would watch if the Devils didn't play. I watch the Winter Classic & SCF like its a religion every year.

Johnyrocket

11-16-2012, 04:24 PM

This is actually a bad thing that the NHL does not even do. They have a hard time devoting time to talk about the match up, the team the history. They do a short stint about previous games, they spread some info that barely catches you attention but look at the NBA NFL and MLB. They detailed time and focus in properly getting exciting info to the viewers.

When ESPN covered KHL games, it was a disaster. They dismissed every block shot as an accident, they acted like they dont hit... but there was plenty i saw. They laughed at every name and they even admitted to not knowing a THING about the KHL or its teams.

Coverage of the sport in America is Horrid. And this on all levels needs to be fixed... This is why ESPN did not win the NHL contract. They wanted us for what we became, not what they saw our potential to be

It would be awesome if the NHL had NFL-like coverage and hype behind each game. I guess its because too many games and 60 minutes of play vs 11 minutes for NFL.

If the NHL was able to create the Winter Classic out of thin air and less than 5 years later make it look like a timeless tradition, they would be able to do the same with a Champions League and a World Cup. The European teams & leagues have a very rich history with some teams dating back to the early 1900s or 1800s. It would be easy to dig into the history of the clubs, show national and club rivalries, history of the towns & countries, etc. Its all about perspective & marketing and how the NHL in cooperation with other leagues portray it.

I think the main concern is that the NHL would have to accept the fact that the World Cup & Champions League would be nearly on par with the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Participating in such events would only grow the popularity of the sport and the NHL, so there is nothing to lose.

Now as for the logistics and specifics, we could argue how many teams, what prize money and about the structure til we are all blue in the face but there is no point. Its almost a fact that a World Cup and a Champions League is the next logical step for hockey & the NHL, IIHF, KHL and other leagues have to face the facts and just accept it that it will eventually happen.

Eidyia

11-17-2012, 03:17 PM

In a way your right... the NHL is the elite league where 95% of the best players in the world want to play. Its the most watched, most tracked and most exciting hockey there is.

And as long this is the case the transatlantic tournament wont make any sense.

I'm all for the European champions cup where the best from KHL, Sweden, Switzerland, Finland, Germany, Czech...etc face each others. But it has to be better funded and organized than the current Euro Trophy. It's sad that its seen as a practice tournament for most of the teams at the moment.

And it seems that the Russians want to make a continental league of their own so maybe that's the answer then... And if and when they're the only ones with sufficient funds to fund such a league/tournament maybe we should just go with it...

garbageteam

11-21-2012, 12:55 PM

calm yourself... I forgot them. I wasnt dismissing them. Wow, people get uptight. I was just listing anything that popped off my head... There are other leagues too!

And is that sarcasm on the bottom? No, I believe that Austria can send one or two teams that will compete fairly. Germany also has 2-3 teams. Slovakia has about 2-3 as well. And yes the Swiss have about 3-4.

If i created this tournament I would have

3 NHL (At least one playoff team, 1 east and 1 west. 2 Canadians and 1 USA)
3 KHL (Champion, 1 team from the east and 1 team from the west)

2 Swe (Champion, and playoff team)
2 Swiss (Champion and playoff team)
1 Fin (Champion)
1 Czech (Champion)
1 Aus (Champion)
1 Ger (Champion)

Wildcard--- Any other team away from the KHL, in Europe can go through a qualifying tournament to be the last two teams in the Champions league. Wildcard teams that wish to join must be a playoff team in their respective leagues within the top 10 ranked leagues or a runner up/champion in a previous European tournament of this or previous year

4 Groups... Each group hosted by 3 NHL teams and 1 KHL team (Champions)
Each group will have to play each team in that group once. Win, Tie, Loss. The two best record team will then go into a knockout bracket style tournament.

One game knockout to allow for more excitement and better possible upsets.
The bracket will be set up where the winners of each group will take on the 2nd winners of another group depending on record.

There will be a 3rd place game of the two losers in the semi finals. And a Championship game played. The NHL can host both these games.

I like the idea, but it's too many games/teams to be feasible IMO. In an ideal world, sure, but I think it would be a MONUMENTAL leap to convince just the Stanley Cup champion... or hell, if they are too tired to play, even the President's Trophy winner to come and play a meaningful championship game after a minimum of 86 (PT winner) or 98 (SC winner) games played over the season. If you're throwing neither the Cup champion or even the President's Trophy winner in the ring then it's bollocks, you might as well put the Columbus Blue Jackets out there. If you can convince them to play two more games I think it would be a massive victory for hockey globally.

I'm not trying to be North American centric here. This is the reality, the NHL sees itself as the world's best without playing a tournament already. Unless the rest of Europe bends over backwards to accommodate them it is unlikely we would see them as willing participants...or they get a huge cash prize for winning. Europe could of course have a Champions League without the NHL teams as a starting point/first step.