Does Gretzky leave Edmonton if Coffey had not been traded?

I was thinking about this, and I just can't see Gretzky leaving if the Oilers still had Coffey. Everyone says it was Kurri that allowed Gretz to perform his magic, but Gretz was never the same point wise after Coffey left. Coffey went to the Penguins, and boosted Lemieux's point totals, even once to the 200 point stratosphere (199 points in his first full season with Coffey) -- a level that Gretz had been enjoying on a regular basis playing with Coffey. Hardly a coincidence. That Oiler team was perfect with Coffey. Without him, they were still great, but not perfect. I just can't see Gretz giving all that up. Thoughts?

Yes, because it had absolutely nothing to do with on ice stuff. Pocklington was in financial trouble and sold off an asset. End of story.

I don't know if that's entirely true. Gretz was given the power to veto the trade, but chose to go along with it because of his own personal reasons as well.

The Oilers actually had their most dominant playoff run in 1988 after Coffey was traded.

Anyway, one could argue that they would have had to trade Gretzky sooner if they hadn't traded Coffey first, because money was the big reason for both trades.

He didn't give it up. It wasn't his choice to be traded from what I remember

The Oilers actually had their most dominant playoff run in 1988 after Coffey was traded.

Anyway, one could argue that they would have had to trade Gretzky sooner if they hadn't traded Coffey first, because money was the big reason for both trades.

Correct.

The Oilers couldn't even afford to pay Gretzky what he wanted after trading Coffey first.

Correct.

The Oilers couldn't even afford to pay Gretzky what he wanted after trading Coffey first.

Based on what exactly?


THe book "Gretzky to Lemieux" discusses the Coffey holdout. Sather had eventually worked out a deal with Coffey (ie- money wasn't the sticking point) but Coffey had decided he didn't want to play for Pocklington anymore. Pocklington had gotten into a media war of words with Coffey, calling him all sorts of names during the holdout. Furthermore Pocklington was sabotauging contract talks by throwing obscure pieces of real estate into the contract.

Gretzky was still super dominant without Coffey. Not 200 points, but in 1986-'87 when Coffey missed 25 or so games, Gretzky still had 183 points. In 1987-'88 when Coffey was traded, Gretzky had 149 points in 64 games. A full season translates that to 186 points.

In 1988-'89 he gets 168 points with brand new teammates and not one player in the same breath as Coffey, Kurri or Messier. Gretzky needed no charity at all. Coffey should be credited with a lot however, but I prefer to say that great players benefit from great players

Gretzky had no choice. Pocklington had 15 million reasons that it was a done deal and he didn't care what anybody else thought about it.

I don't know if that's entirely true. Gretz was given the power to veto the trade, but chose to go along with it because of his own personal reasons as well.

That is not accurate.

After Pocklington insulted Gretzky and his father regularly, constantly tried to negotiate a cash sale for Gretzky with any team that would listen and finally closed a deal - why would Gretzky stay? If your employer treats you like crap long enough, leaving is the only option.

So, Gretzky vetoes this deal. What happens next year when the next deal comes up? At the very least, Gretzky was able to direct where he ended up somewhat - he knew Pocklington was dumping him somewhere, why let Pocklington decide where? It's not like this was actualy a hockey trade, it was purely a bad businessman selling an asset to try to save his ass.

Yes, because it had absolutely nothing to do with on ice stuff. Pocklington was in financial trouble and sold off an asset. End of story.

First thing I thought about when i saw the title of the thread as Wayne leaving.

I don't know that it's necessarily as simple as some of you are making it. Coffey would not have been traded if not for Pocklington's words, as mentioned above.

So what happens then?

Does the Gretzky deal happen? Probably not. So what happens if/when Pocklington needs some more cash?

He deals off Mark Messier, and maybe it's to LA for Bernie Nicholls... not an unrealistic deal. Judging by their play in LA, Gretzky and Nicholls would certainly have done well together in Edmonton. Fuhr probably goes sooner also; putting Ranford in the nets full-time in 88-89.

Pocklington killed off his dynasty because he couldn't stand to keep his mouth shut. He does, and the Oilers probably win 2 or 3 more Cups. Think about it; by the 90 Cup, Coffey and Gretzky were gone. Fuhr had been replaced by Ranford. Messier was about to be traded. Anderson and Kurri also.

If that team is held together a bit with an owner who is less volatile, and Coffey stays, maybe they win the 89 Cup; Coffey's on the roster, and it never gets to the point where Steve Smith can win it for Calgary by putting the puck in his own net. That's significant because playoff games=money and that's what Pocklington needed. Two more rounds of playoffs would have made a big difference.

I don't know that it's necessarily as simple as some of you are making it. Coffey would not have been traded if not for Pocklington's words, as mentioned above.

So what happens then?

Does the Gretzky deal happen? Probably not. So what happens if/when Pocklington needs some more cash?

He deals off Mark Messier, and maybe it's to LA for Bernie Nicholls... not an unrealistic deal. Judging by their play in LA, Gretzky and Nicholls would certainly have done well together in Edmonton. Fuhr probably goes sooner also; putting Ranford in the nets full-time in 88-89.

Pocklington killed off his dynasty because he couldn't stand to keep his mouth shut. He does, and the Oilers probably win 2 or 3 more Cups. Think about it; by the 90 Cup, Coffey and Gretzky were gone. Fuhr had been replaced by Ranford. Messier was about to be traded. Anderson and Kurri also.

If that team is held together a bit with an owner who is less volatile, and Coffey stays, maybe they win the 89 Cup; Coffey's on the roster, and it never gets to the point where Steve Smith can win it for Calgary by putting the puck in his own net. That's significant because playoff games=money and that's what Pocklington needed. Two more rounds of playoffs would have made a big difference.

It was a lot more to do with money than you think. Gretzky was able to to fetch $15 million, Messier would only have brought $5 million.

Gretzky was gone no matter what happened.

I was thinking about this, and I just can't see Gretzky leaving if the Oilers still had Coffey. Everyone says it was Kurri that allowed Gretz to perform his magic, but Gretz was never the same point wise after Coffey left. Coffey went to the Penguins, and boosted Lemieux's point totals, even once to the 200 point stratosphere (199 points in his first full season with Coffey) -- a level that Gretz had been enjoying on a regular basis playing with Coffey. Hardly a coincidence. That Oiler team was perfect with Coffey. Without him, they were still great, but not perfect. I just can't see Gretz giving all that up. Thoughts?

Something I remember is that Gretzky's wife Janet was an actress, and that moving to Los Angeles would be beneficial to her acting career while they would still be able to spend time together.

Something I remember is that Gretzky's wife Janet was an actress, and that moving to Los Angeles would be beneficial to her acting career while they would still be able to spend time together.

That is also not true. Stories spread by Pocklington to try to absolve himself of any wrong doing.

Gretzky ended up in LA because Bruce McNall was the one owner in the NHL that was willing to pay whatever it took to get Gretzky on his team.

Janet did a very few movies after Wayne was sold to LA and spent most of her time rasing children. The movie career argument is a myth.

That is also not true. Stories spread by Pocklington to try to absolve himself of any wrong doing.

Gretzky ended up in LA because Bruce McNall was the one owner in the NHL that was willing to pay whatever it took to get Gretzky on his team.

Janet did a very few movies after Wayne was sold to LA and spent most of her time rasing children. The movie career argument is a myth.

Janet herself said in an interview (was it the King's Ransom doc?) that she was "barefoot and pregnant" for several years after 1988. She was going to be a mom at the time of the trade. She was already carrying Paulina. Then she has 4 more children. She was a mom. Besides she might be most famous for a role in Police Academy. In the last 20 years all I remember her doing is a small role in "Alpha Dog."

Some movie star. Yeah it was a myth, probably started by Peter "I'd trade him again" Pocklington

It was a lot more to do with money than you think. Gretzky was able to to fetch $15 million, Messier would only have brought $5 million.

Gretzky was gone no matter what happened.

Coffey wasn't going to be traded except for the fact he decided not to play for Edmonton anymore after he was so badly bashed by Peter Pockets. Coffey stays, they might not trade Gretzky either. When Coffey was traded that was the tipping point that started the dismantling.

Coffey wasn't going to be traded except for the fact he decided not to play for Edmonton anymore after he was so badly bashed by Peter Pockets. Coffey stays, they might not trade Gretzky either. When Coffey was traded that was the tipping point that started the dismantling.

Nope.

The tipping point was Pocklington's failing meat packing business. If Pocklington was rolling in cash maybe he would have kept Gretzky but I doubt it. For him it was all about the money and Gretzky was worth more than anyone so he was definitely getting sold. His traade conversation with McNall started "Gretzky is available. I need $15 million in cash....and throw in some players". The only reason he wanted some players was so that it would look like a trade and the people of Edmonton might not lynch him. So he spread the lies that Janet wanted to move to LA to act and Wayne wanted to do this for his wife and to further his fame and riches. All lies. For Pocklington, it was all about the cash.

Pocklington is the man who gave his players Stanley Cup rings that reflected their contribution - meaning, he gave some players rings with glass instead of diamonds in them. He is all about the money and, to this day, if Pocklington was to ever come to the city he would likely be brutally assaulted by someone.

Even if Coffey stayed, Gretzky was gone no matter what. Coffey would have been sold off eventually anyway.

Don't try to find a hockey explanation for the dismantling of the Oilers. Every single player of value was moved to get rid of their salary and/or get cash in return. Pocklington is the reason you cannot trade players for money in the NHL anymore.

I don't know that it's necessarily as simple as some of you are making it. Coffey would not have been traded if not for Pocklington's words, as mentioned above.

So what happens then?

Does the Gretzky deal happen? Probably not. So what happens if/when Pocklington needs some more cash?

He deals off Mark Messier, and maybe it's to LA for Bernie Nicholls... not an unrealistic deal. Judging by their play in LA, Gretzky and Nicholls would certainly have done well together in Edmonton. Fuhr probably goes sooner also; putting Ranford in the nets full-time in 88-89.

Pocklington killed off his dynasty because he couldn't stand to keep his mouth shut. He does, and the Oilers probably win 2 or 3 more Cups. Think about it; by the 90 Cup, Coffey and Gretzky were gone. Fuhr had been replaced by Ranford. Messier was about to be traded. Anderson and Kurri also.

If that team is held together a bit with an owner who is less volatile, and Coffey stays, maybe they win the 89 Cup; Coffey's on the roster, and it never gets to the point where Steve Smith can win it for Calgary by putting the puck in his own net. That's significant because playoff games=money and that's what Pocklington needed. Two more rounds of playoffs would have made a big difference.

You obviously were not around during those days or you would know it was 100% about money. Hell the Oilers were almost traded to Toronto for the Leafs at one point. Desperate businessmen do desperate things

You obviously were not around during those days or you would know it was 100% about money. Hell the Oilers were almost traded to Toronto for the Leafs at one point. Desperate businessmen do desperate things

Gretzky has stated that he wanted to be paid what he was worth and Pocklington had no intention (or means) of doing that.

Gretzky has stated that he wanted to be paid what he was worth and Pocklington had no intention (or means) of doing that.

Gretzky takes the high road far too often. This is not the reason Gretzky was sold.

Gretzky takes the high road far too often. This is not the reason Gretzky was sold.

Not to mention he had a contract, which was torn up when he was traded to LA by Bruce McFraud

Gretzky takes the high road far too often. This is not the reason Gretzky was sold.

Yes, money is seldom a reason for player movement.

As far as I can tell, it was a joint decision, which included Gretzky. It was started by Pocklington, but Gretzky had a lot of personal benefit at play, and make no mistake, Gretzky wanted to be traded once he found out Pocklington had been shopping him. Gretzky did nothing to stop the deal once it was in the works and, in fact, was already hanging out with Bruce McNall during negotiations.

As far as I can tell, it was a joint decision, which included Gretzky. It was started by Pocklington, but Gretzky had a lot of personal benefit at play, and make no mistake, Gretzky wanted to be traded once he found out Pocklington had been shopping him. Gretzky did nothing to stop the deal once it was in the works and, in fact, was already hanging out with Bruce McNall during negotiations.


Pocklington wanted the cash thus, he started shopping Gretzky. Pocklington was also a complete dick towards his players. So, when it was obvious he was going to be sold Gretzky tried to influence where he would land. Pocklington really didn't care who he dealt with as long as there was $15 million on the table.

If Pocklington had no need for cash this would never have happened. It was not a joint decision it was simply damage control by Gretzky.

Gretzky would never have left on his own accord. Pocklington made it happen. Too many people believe Pocklington's verson of the story. Who are you gonna believe? The guy charged with bankruptcy fraud or the guy who always takes the high road?

Coffey had nothing to do with it. He would of been traded anyway.

You obviously were not around during those days or you would know it was 100% about money. Hell the Oilers were almost traded to Toronto for the Leafs at one point. Desperate businessmen do desperate things

I didn't say he would never have been traded. More that Gretzky would have lasted longer and other players traded; perhaps the Oilers would have been sold instead of Gretzky being traded.

Hey pro sports are a business and Gretzky was an asset with value. That is the bottom line.

One slight problem with the ops theory. Coffey road D mostly on the messier and anderson line. Lowe and fogolin were the Dmen on the gretz line. And of course the gretz move was all about money needed by peter puck

I think the answer to the OP's question should be another question: Would Gretzky have been sold if such a criminal like McNall had not come forward with an offer to purchase him?

Sold by a scum bag to a scum bag.