Would You Watch Scabs Play?

We've been talking about this on the Oilers' board a bit and it's gotten some interesting results. Take a look: http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=104060. Just wondering what everyone thinks.

There has been some speculation about the league perhaps eventually calling an "impasse". If that occurs the league could force a new economic system on the league at which point the players would likely strike.

This leads to an interesting question - would you watch scabs play in NHL uniforms?

Here's Gary's current statements:

Q. Commissioner, what is the League's entitlement if a year goes by and there is no agreement? How can you reconstitute the League and begin play again?

COMMISSIONER BETTMAN: The question that you are asking is, when can an employer unilaterally implement new terms and conditions of employment. You can do that at impasse. I have seen a lot of speculation that that's something that we plan to do, and it's something, quite frankly, we haven't given any thought. We're hoping that at some point in the not-too-distant future, the League and the players can get together and that the Union will finally be prepared to negotiate the type of partnership deal that can take our game forward.

Q. This may be too early to say, but do you ever envision a scenario in which you might use replacement players?

COMMISSIONER BETTMAN: As I indicated before that's not anything we have been considering. Speculation on that has probably been used as a device to get the players energized, but it's not something we're considering right now.

from: http://www.nhlcbanews.com/transcripts/bettman_qa091504.html

Uniform first and player second!!

AHL teams should play in there parent club building

Can you imagine guys showing up in their Chevy's to cross a picket line formed by a bunch of guys driving Ferrarri's??

I don't think it'll get to that. There's 700 wives/girlfriends and several more alimony/support payments that won't allow it to get to that!!! :D :D

I say we start seeing some serious cracks (in the union!! ;)) by Christmas!!!

AHL teams should play in there parent club building

And penalize the AHL markets? The AHL won't make nearly as much money and there isn't even 30 AHL teams right now, to even cover most of the costs it does for NHL clubs. Most AHL teams are not owned by their NHL parent.


Although the Phantoms and Flyers have the same owner, even the same city. Philadelphia lucked out a bit with this lockout.

Hell no. Too much other good hockey to watch i.e. AHL, Euro Leagues, College and Junior. Plenty to keep you occupied until these clowns figure this out. :shakehead

If this was what I got stuck watching with my tickets (that I've already paid for), I'd demand a big portion of my money back, since I'd most likely be watching some seriously sub-par hockey.

Trained monkeys in a team jumper will do.

Trained monkeys in a team jumper will do.
Even if they're charging you standard NHL prices to watch them?

The monkey idea does sound pretty fun though :)

Can you imagine guys showing up in their Chevy's to cross a picket line formed by a bunch of guys driving Ferrarri's??

I don't think it'll get to that. There's 700 wives/girlfriends and several more alimony/support payments that won't allow it to get to that!!! :D :D

I say we start seeing some serious cracks (in the union!! ;)) by Christmas!!!


I hope you're right BF!

No to scabs.

Why would I want to watch scabs in the NHL (most likely minor pro and junior players) and pay NHL ticket prices when I could watch those same players play with their regular teams at an AHL, ECHL or CHL ticket price??

AHL teams should play in there parent club building

Definitely not. And I'm not just saying that because I am in an AHL city, but the AHL agreed on their CBA- no need to pull it out of their markets.

Hell yeah, I'd watch the scabs. If enough people did watch the scabs, we'd see the union crack pretty damn quick. Unless of course, the current NHLers are eager to look for new jobs, without college degrees, in this economy. I'd say that when listing "special skills" on a resume, a 95mph slapshot probably won't get you a job in sales.

No and most people wouldn't. Talk is cheap. Scabs only sounds like a good idea (not to me) until you watch them play.

Even if they're charging you standard NHL prices to watch them?

The monkey idea does sound pretty fun though :)

Clearly with monkeys they'd only be charging peanuts.

AHLers wouldn't be much more.

I would.

And anyone who thinks the NHL would charge regular price to attend games is most probably seriously misguided.

Quite simply, I will watch the best hockey I can watch. I like options. This means if the NHL employed scabs but that other options were more entertaining, I wouldn't watch the scabs.

But I have nothing against the concept itself and would watch gladly.

No and most people wouldn't. Talk is cheap. Scabs only sounds like a good idea (not to me) until you watch them play.

You mean end to end, emotion filled, passionate hockey without traps or defensive systems employed to put the crowds to sleep? You mean actual offensive hockey?

Oh no, who wants that. Bring me the Minnesota Wild and Carolina Hurricanes. ;)

You mean end to end, emotion filled, passionate hockey without traps or defensive systems employed to put the crowds to sleep? You mean actual offensive hockey?


If you think the trap/defensive hockey doesn't exist outside the NHL, you haven't watched much hockey outside the NHL in recent years.

Most AHL players are on NHL contracts. Replacements would have to be drawn mostly from the ECHL and the semi-pro leagues. I don't think the hockey can be sold as anywhere near major league. I think most fans would prefer Major Junior.

It isn't going to happen. The NHL will try to get a judge to declare an impasse in the negotiations and allow them to unilaterally impose change. The NHLPA will oppose that that motion. I'm not going to try to guess what a judge will do in that case but I would guess that it depends on whether there is a lot more effort on the owner's behalf to negotiate a deal between now and then. If the judge rules for the players, nothing changes.

If the judge rules in favour of the league, the NHL will probably try to tempt the players with the most generous salary cap system they are prepared to give. The players will have three options: 1) Convert the lockout to a strike. As long as the players hold firm nothing really changes 2) Decertify the union, report for work and start with the anti-trust lawsuits or 3) Accept the deal or a variation of the deal.

Tom

Tom, if the NHL could legally pull it, would (some of) the NHL-bound players have (legally) the right to cross the line and play with the scabs?

Tom, if the NHL could legally pull it, would (some of) the NHL-bound players have (legally) the right to cross the line and play with the scabs?

After the impasse: Yes (and some will). Until that time we won't know how big a rift exists within the NHLPA. 40% of players might not be happy with Goodenow and walk as a group. It might be 10%, it might be just a handful. With 1200 employees and fringe NHL/AHL/prospects you can bet some will cross. Its not if, its how many and equally important WHO.

After the impasse: Yes (and some will). Until that time we won't know how big a rift exists within the NHLPA. 40% of players might not be happy with Goodenow and walk as a group. It might be 10%, it might be just a handful. With 1200 employees and fringe NHL/AHL/prospects you can bet some will cross. Its not if, its how many and equally important WHO.

Ok. My problem with the question (whether they can LEGALLY cross after the impasse) and my problem with replacement players is because of the numerous provincial/state and federal laws at work.

I would really like a study to be done, something. I winder why reporters keep on presenting inane issues and moan instead of reporting interesting stuff like that.

I mean, labor laws differ in Canada and the US. That's one issue. Then hockey takes place in four Canadian provinces, which also have different laws and God knows how many US states. I don't know if US states each have different labor laws the same way we do in our different provinces either.

The whole thing is very complicated and it's tough to find clear answers. I'd like to see detailed articles about that one day, instead of seeing Bob McKenzie's mug telling me the same stuff over and over again like a broken record.

AHL teams should play in there parent club building

I agree. Teams should do more of this anyway.

You mean end to end, emotion filled, passionate hockey without traps or defensive systems employed to put the crowds to sleep? You mean actual offensive hockey?

Oh no, who wants that. Bring me the Minnesota Wild and Carolina Hurricanes. ;)

Right on. I'll take players with something to prove, sensible rules called consistently & 80s goalie pads tomorrow.

Yes To Scabs

no way

With the league already in trouble I would hope to hell that Bettman wouldn't even consider such a stupid alternative. With the number of good players we already have in the NHL the tv ratings are terrible. The seventh game of the Stanley Cup Finals finished 19th on cable tv ratings...19th!, behind reruns of the Cosby show, Spongebob Squarepants, etc. etc. Non-hockey sportscasters have been saying that people won't watch because there isn't a bonafide superstar. With all this in mind, there is no way the NHL would survive in the U.S. if this were allowed to happen.

With the league already in trouble I would hope to hell that Bettman wouldn't even consider such a stupid alternative. With the number of good players we already have in the NHL the tv ratings are terrible. The seventh game of the Stanley Cup Finals finished 19th on cable tv ratings...19th!, behind reruns of the Cosby show, Spongebob Squarepants, etc. etc. Non-hockey sportscasters have been saying that people won't watch because there isn't a bonafide superstar. With all this in mind, there is no way the NHL would survive in the U.S. if this were allowed to happen.
You don't understand the purpose if this is your opinion. The purpose of scabs is to start the game moving again, and put more pressure on the PA to capitulate. Eventually players cross and the game moves on.

You don't understand the purpose if this is your opinion. The purpose of scabs is to start the game moving again, and put more pressure on the PA to capitulate. Eventually players cross and the game moves on.

If it is a strategy to get the players to give in and agree to a cap, then maybe, but I think that is kind of risky and that it could backfire....my statement was more if it backfired and we were left with just scabs. People have to remember that with such a high number of players not being from North America they could easily say screw the NHL and just play for their home countries for good. I just don't want to see that happen.

If I wanted to watch the ECHL or players from semi pro league I would watch the ECHL or some semi pro league. I guess a lot of you are too young to remember watching NFL scabs.. fun fun fun.. just a cash grab for the poor, destitute owners.

The quality of the game would be horrible compared to the NHL and even IF you could get a couple of NHL players to cross the picket lines, they wouldnt be the Forsbergs, Sundins, Sakics of the NHL, it would be the Steve Webbs, Darby Hendricksons. No thanks. I'd rather watch the money grab solutions that the NHLPA are offering like that 4 on 4 thing, than watch a bunch of no name, mens league, barely pro calibre players skate.

You don't understand the purpose if this is your opinion. The purpose of scabs is to start the game moving again, and put more pressure on the PA to capitulate. Eventually players cross and the game moves on.

Barely anyone watches the stars of the game play in the US. What makes you think they will come out in droves to see a bunch of scabs hack around? If anything the quality of the product would embarass the owners and put pressure on them to get back the real hockey players

What if that barely pro, no name player was you? Or your friend? wouldn't you want to see scabs play then? I think that pro hockey players know what a system is, and know their own skills. European league sell tickets and they're not the best players around. And we have the proof from the World Cup that the best players don't always make the best hockey, some players didn't get ready or had no emotion and some games were very boring.

As I've said it before, as long as it's not 20 year olds CHLers, it's all good. ECHLers and AHLers have talent as well, the goons in the NHL have a lot of talent, the NHL could put less pressure on the coaches to win, just make it entertaining hockey and see 600 ECHLers give their best with their 15 minutes of fame.

If I wanted to watch the ECHL or players from semi pro league I would watch the ECHL or some semi pro league. I guess a lot of you are too young to remember watching NFL scabs.. fun fun fun.. just a cash grab for the poor, destitute owners.

The quality of the game would be horrible compared to the NHL and even IF you could get a couple of NHL players to cross the picket lines, they wouldnt be the Forsbergs, Sundins, Sakics of the NHL, it would be the Steve Webbs, Darby Hendricksons. No thanks. I'd rather watch the money grab solutions that the NHLPA are offering like that 4 on 4 thing, than watch a bunch of no name, mens league, barely pro calibre players skate.



Barely anyone watches the stars of the game play in the US. What makes you think they will come out in droves to see a bunch of scabs hack around? If anything the quality of the product would embarass the owners and put pressure on them to get back the real hockey players

Thats more of what I was getting at. Even if they brought in replacement players as a tactic to get the players back it would alienate a lot of the audience in the U.S, it wouldn't deter the diehard fans but they can't take the chance of losing more viewers and even if the real players came back after that I think many people wouldn't watch again.

I dont think i'll watch scabs. If i want to see some young kids prove themselve i'll go see some OHL and NCAA games.

If you think the trap/defensive hockey doesn't exist outside the NHL, you haven't watched much hockey outside the NHL in recent years.

Obviously I know that defensive hockey is everywhere. But we can all agree that Junior hockey, and other leagues are more offensive based than the NHL nowadays. I've watched lots of Junior hockey, and it's easy to see the "caution to the wind" style of play at times.

Yes I would

What if that barely pro, no name player was you? Or your friend? wouldn't you want to see scabs play then?

No.

I think that pro hockey players know what a system is, and know their own skills. European league sell tickets and they're not the best players around.

This is completely different. That is the level of play that the fans expect to see game in game out. You think the fans would be happy to watch players not as good as the ones they have been used to watching? Don't bet on it.

And we have the proof from the World Cup that the best players don't always make the best hockey, some players didn't get ready or had no emotion and some games were very boring.

I think the key word here is some. As in some games were boring and some people thought they were boring. I didn't watch any of the euro pool, but there was a couple of times in the tournament where I got shivers hearing Bob Cole announce "Lemieux to Iginla, Iginla to Sakic, Sakic shoots and scores!" or watching exciting semi final games from both pools.

As I've said it before, as long as it's not 20 year olds CHLers, it's all good. ECHLers and AHLers have talent as well, the goons in the NHL have a lot of talent, the NHL could put less pressure on the coaches to win, just make it entertaining hockey and see 600 ECHLers give their best with their 15 minutes of fame.

All the while, buying $3 cokes, $4 hotdogs, $10 programs and outrageous ticket prices (sure they will be lowered a little, but if you are thinking a major slash, you are fooling yourselves. NHL arenas cost a lot to operate for events and as the owners have said, they are losing money, so they aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

This is a great poll We should send it to Bettman. Once he realizes fans side with him, will wait, and will support scabs, we'll be guaranteed not to have to watch an annoying season of hockey this year. Way to go guys.

I can imagine some fans going to games just to shout scab, after they get all riled up by the picket line violence. Causing fights in the arena and getting thrown out, bringing more police because its just not safe going to games anymore.

You dont want a lockout, start threatening this. This is what I think the Fan Association position should be. Mayhem. Seems an appropriate response to owners who cant help but be irrational.

Here are some of the points that had to be argued with.

I think the key word here is some. As in some games were boring and some people thought they were boring. I didn't watch any of the euro pool, but there was a couple of times in the tournament where I got shivers hearing Bob Cole announce "Lemieux to Iginla, Iginla to Sakic, Sakic shoots and scores!" or watching exciting semi final games from both pools.

The Canadian team was exciting in all of their games, but they also won all of their games. A lot of teams when they played against Canada didn't look good, had no passion or were to slow, and well if you're a fan of those teams you would of though that the World Cup wasn't that good entertainment. Furthermore, the European pools and the non-Canada games were the majority. Some games were fun, but they were the minority, as most of those good games involved Canada. We would watch some of the most boring games ever if it had Canada in it, I'm talking about the casual fans or the overseas fan who have some expectations.


All the while, buying $3 cokes, $4 hotdogs, $10 programs and outrageous ticket prices (sure they will be lowered a little, but if you are thinking a major slash, you are fooling yourselves. NHL arenas cost a lot to operate for events and as the owners have said, they are losing money, so they aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.
The players represent 76% of the total budgets of NHL teams, the owners could make a 50% cut on the price of going to a game and make a bit of money. Before saying vague statements like "NHL arenas cost a lot to operate" etc they cost anywhere between 20%-10% of the total money an owner spends, major slashes in ticket prices could be possible from a financial point of view.