MLB Draft re-entries?

leafaholix*
10-17-2004, 12:25 AM
We know Wade Townsend (#8 overall) is going back into the draft and Verlander (Tigers, #2) is likely to re-enter the draft in 2005. Does anyone have news on guys like Neimann, Weaver, Drew, etc... ?

Anthony*
10-17-2004, 12:26 AM
who cares

mlb draft is the biggest crap shoot anyways

leafaholix*
10-17-2004, 12:27 AM
who cares

mlb draft is the biggest crap shoot anyways
I know, but my Jays have the #6 pick and it's relatively important to me.

Biggest crapshoot... yes, but when a 21 year old RHP that can throw 99 mph is available, it's news.

Anthony*
10-17-2004, 12:32 AM
well

i might care if i was an a's or a twins fan and i had some scouts working for my team that arent complete dumbasses

Motown Beatdown
10-17-2004, 12:33 AM
I know, but my Jays have the #6 pick and it's relatively important to me.

Biggest crapshoot... yes, but when a 21 year old RHP that can throw 99 mph is available, it's news.


If you want to pay his asking price. A MLB contract with a 6 million plus dollar signing bonus. Heck the Tigers already offered him more than Bush signed for.

One thing to note is Verlanders agent is a rookie agent this is his 1st contract.

Broadway Brett
10-17-2004, 12:39 AM
We know Wade Townsend (#8 overall) is going back into the draft and Verlander (Tigers, #2) is likely to re-enter the draft in 2005. Does anyone have news on guys like Neimann, Weaver, Drew, etc... ?
Stephen Drew will. I'm hoping the Yanks make a trade for him and sign him, from what I've read the D-Backs will give him up for nearly any prospect.

loveshack2
10-17-2004, 01:11 AM
We know Wade Townsend (#8 overall) is going back into the draft and Verlander (Tigers, #2) is likely to re-enter the draft in 2005. Does anyone have news on guys like Neimann, Weaver, Drew, etc... ?
There's a very good chance that all those guys will be re-entering the draft and you can count Humber as a possibility as well. 6 of the top 10 from last year's draft could be back in the draft next year, crazy.

Teams are waking up and realizing that unless a guy is an absolute can't miss prospect, it doesnt make any sense to spend all those millions in bonuses when you could just sign a free agent. Much less risk and the free agent is ready to play for you *now*. The MLB draft has become so bad in this regard that some teams intentionally throw away their 1st round picks because they know that whoever they pick is going to ask for too much money anyway.

leafaholix*
10-17-2004, 01:14 AM
well

i might care if i was an a's or a twins fan and i had some scouts working for my team that arent complete dumbasses
Exactly.

I care because the Jays have a great scouting staff. A good number of Toronto first picks from the 90's are notable players in the league.

1990 - Steve Karsay
1991 - Shawn Green
1992 - Shannon Stewart
1993 - Chris Carpenter
1995 - Roy Halladay
1996 - Billy Koch
1997 - Vernon Wells
1998 - Felipe Lopez
1999 - Alexis Rios
2001 - Gabe Gross
2002 - Russ Adams

Gibsons Finest
10-17-2004, 01:34 AM
I'm not sure about Weaver, but I figure him to be signed. Anaheim needs another starter, and could use Weaver in the future.

Brodeur
10-17-2004, 02:35 AM
Heck the Tigers already offered him more than Bush signed for.


Sadly that doesn't mean squat to the agents/players. Bush was selected first because he offered to sign a relatively affordable contract with the Padres. It's not like the NFL where you get an offer based on where you were picked.

Honestly I think it's a huge gamble for a first round pick to re-enter the draft. Only a handful (J.D. Drew off the top of my head) end up being picked anywhere near where they were before.

This always makes me want to bring up Matt Harrington. He was picked like 7th overall by the Rockies.....and they offered him more money (~4 mil signing bonus) than the 1st pick of the previous draft, Harrington and his people decided he could do better. He re-entered the draft, was picked in the 2nd round by the Padres. San Diego offered him 1 million to sign, which was more than any 2nd rounder should expect, but again he declined and re-entered. Was picked by like Tampa the following year in the 7th round, didn't sign.......was picked by Cincinnnati, didn't sign.....and was picked in like the 30th round this year by the Yankees. Harrington blew out his arm in the process.

The guys that re-enter also push their major league service back by a year if I recall correctly. Peter Gammons brought up Jason Varitek as an example. Varitek re-entered the draft a couple times and is only now becoming a free agent. If he had signed the first time he was drafted, he would have been a FA a couple years ago. So in the long term, holding out for a slightly better rookie contract robs you of money anyways.

leafaholix*
10-17-2004, 02:57 AM
Good post Brodeur.

Toronto's first rounders in 2003 and 2004 were re-entires (Aaron Hill, David Purcey). Both went higher after re-entering the draft I believe.

After reading up on Verlander on a couple Detroit Tigers' message boards, it seems like he's got the best "stuff", but he has control and mechanical problems. I really like Drew, if he's available (if he re-enters) I think he'd be a great pickup for Toronto. I wonder if he can play 3B.

Ironchef Chris Wok*
10-17-2004, 03:14 AM
The most notable re-entry lately is Mark Prior.
He was originally drafted by Goliath himself.

Brodeur
10-17-2004, 03:53 AM
The most notable re-entry lately is Mark Prior.
He was originally drafted by Goliath himself.

Lots of guys re-enter, but usually it's a guy picked in like the 15th round like Prior was. Barry Zito was a 4th round pick (IIRC) of Texas before re-entering and being picked in the top 10. It's understandable in those cases, why take 4th round money when you have proven yourself worth of a 1st round selection.

But for a guy taken top 10 or 15 to re-enter seems rather unproductive. I suppose it's not easy for guys like that to look at the downside. Most likely they're guys under 21 years old who have dominated in every level they've ever played at, and they think they have the talent to warrant top picks. They probably have advisors/agents feeding their egos as well. I just wonder at what point a 3 million dollar signing bonus to play baseball doesn't sound like a good idea.

To me, for those guys to hold out......they're looking to gain maybe 25% on what's being offered, but the downside is getting jack squat like Harrington got. Take the money and earn your next contract on the field.

Brodeur
10-17-2004, 04:00 AM
I really like Drew, if he's available (if he re-enters) I think he'd be a great pickup for Toronto. I wonder if he can play 3B.

From what I read, he sounds way too similar to his brother in terms of having a weird personality. J.D. Drew had a breakout season finally, but in his case I don't think it's a coincidence that he did it during his walk year.

Stephen Drew had top 3 talent for this draft, but over a dozen teams didn't feel he was worth the headache. The MLB 1st round almost seems to put sign-a-bility over talent nowadays. For a small market club like Toronto, the question becomes, do you sink a 4+ mil signing bonus on a prospect, or would you rather spend the 4+ million on proven free agents to improve your major league team immediately.

X0X0A0
10-17-2004, 08:39 AM
I can 100% guarntee that Niemann will sign, it will just take awhile. Right now him and his agent are deciding between a MLB contract with less money or a non-MLB contract with more money.

X0X0A0
10-17-2004, 08:46 AM
For a small market club like Toronto, the question becomes, do you sink a 4+ mil signing bonus on a prospect, or would you rather spend the 4+ million on proven free agents to improve your major league team immediately.

With an agent like Boras and a player that appears to be sucked into what Boras is telling him it will take alot more than 4 million to sign him.

The Rays gave more to BJ Upton 2 years ago, sure Upton is one of the if not the best prospect in baseball but with salaries getting higher and Boras on Drew's side it will have to be closer to 6+ to get him signed, which means only the Yankees, Mets and a few other teams could afford to put that much money to an unproven player.

Chaos
10-17-2004, 10:06 AM
Lots of guys re-enter, but usually it's a guy picked in like the 15th round like Prior was. Barry Zito was a 4th round pick (IIRC) of Texas before re-entering and being picked in the top 10. It's understandable in those cases, why take 4th round money when you have proven yourself worth of a 1st round selection.

Yep, and Boston picked Mark Texiera in the 7th round out of high school, and then promptly made no effort to sign him. He goes to college, and we grab him 5th overal.......gotta thank Boston for that one ;) .

Big McLargehuge
10-17-2004, 11:35 AM
Stephen Drew...AGAIN?

Damn, he was already a re-entry this year, he was originally drafted by the Pirates.

I care about the draft, the Pirates have done really good the past few years, but still, I don't really care until June :p:

andora
10-18-2004, 04:20 PM
We know Wade Townsend (#8 overall) is going back into the draft and Verlander (Tigers, #2) is likely to re-enter the draft in 2005. Does anyone have news on guys like Neimann, Weaver, Drew, etc... ?

good looking stats on townsend, awesome walk to strikeout ratio and very few home runs .. solid numbers for verlander as well..

Brodeur
10-18-2004, 04:45 PM
Just for hindsight next year, here's what they were offered:

Verlander: "significantly more than 3.35 million", let's just say ~4 million signing bonus

Townsend: ~1.85 million

I find it funny that Townsend, Humber, and Niemann all go/went to Rice. Townsend apparently screwed up and now cannot negotiate with the O's because he went back to school. I get the feeling that once one of Verlander/Humber/Niemann/Weaver sign, that the rest will fall like dominoes.

Verlander's management should realize they're probably beat at this point and try to take the 'final' offer from the Tigers. If he re-enters, they can at best hope that he gets picked in the first round by some franchise with deep pockets. But there just aren't a lot of franchises that are willing to invest 4+ million up front for anything short of a Mark Prior-level prospect. With those salary demands, I wouldn't be surprised to see him drop to the 2nd round or further. At which point, I don't think he'll get anywhere near what the Tigers offered.

Motown Beatdown
10-18-2004, 05:30 PM
Just for hindsight next year, here's what they were offered:

Verlander: "significantly more than 3.35 million", let's just say ~4 million signing bonus

Townsend: ~1.85 million

I find it funny that Townsend, Humber, and Niemann all go/went to Rice. Townsend apparently screwed up and now cannot negotiate with the O's because he went back to school. I get the feeling that once one of Verlander/Humber/Niemann/Weaver sign, that the rest will fall like dominoes.

Verlander's management should realize they're probably beat at this point and try to take the 'final' offer from the Tigers. If he re-enters, they can at best hope that he gets picked in the first round by some franchise with deep pockets. But there just aren't a lot of franchises that are willing to invest 4+ million up front for anything short of a Mark Prior-level prospect. With those salary demands, I wouldn't be surprised to see him drop to the 2nd round or further. At which point, I don't think he'll get anywhere near what the Tigers offered.

Rumor is Verlander want a signing bonus in the 6 million dollar range.

NYRangers
10-18-2004, 05:51 PM
If anyone cares about the #3 pick who is unsigned, Philip Humber said yesterday he will sign asap. There just waiting for picks around them to sign to get a fair deal.

Ironchef Chris Wok*
10-19-2004, 04:52 AM
Yep, and Boston picked Mark Texiera in the 7th round out of high school, and then promptly made no effort to sign him. He goes to college, and we grab him 5th overal.......gotta thank Boston for that one ;) .

While a great player...

Thanks but no thanks to the 9 million dollar Signing Bonus we had to cough up. God I hate Bora$

leafaholix*
10-19-2004, 05:22 AM
I'm so lame. I'll actually sit down and listen to the first 6 or 7 rounds of the MLB draft in June. A week later I realize I wasted my time.

Brodeur
10-25-2004, 03:42 PM
Tigers sign Verlander: http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/det/news/det_news.jsp?ymd=20041022&content_id=903274&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp

The rest should fall like dominoes.

Doomsday Device
10-25-2004, 06:00 PM
Yep, and Boston picked Mark Texiera in the 7th round out of high school, and then promptly made no effort to sign him. He goes to college, and we grab him 5th overal.......gotta thank Boston for that one ;) .

Well, you can't really blame them. Teixeira was expected to be a first rounder, before signability issues dropped him, and probably expected to be paid like one.

Dr Love
10-25-2004, 06:15 PM
Exactly.

I care because the Jays have a great scouting staff. A good number of Toronto first picks from the 90's are notable players in the league.

1990 - Steve Karsay
1991 - Shawn Green
1992 - Shannon Stewart
1993 - Chris Carpenter
1995 - Roy Halladay
1996 - Billy Koch
1997 - Vernon Wells
1998 - Felipe Lopez
1999 - Alexis Rios
2001 - Gabe Gross
2002 - Russ Adams
You're forgetting that Riccardi fired a ton of those scouts.

Motown Beatdown
10-25-2004, 09:41 PM
Tigers sign Verlander: http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/det/news/det_news.jsp?ymd=20041022&content_id=903274&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp

The rest should fall like dominoes.


Nice bluff by Dombrowski. The kid and his agent actually fell for it, thankfully.

The Tigers could have one nasty rotation in 3 to 5 years

guinness
10-25-2004, 09:51 PM
The Tigers could have one nasty rotation in 3 to 5 years

That's the hope, and hey, what's with the Cards avatar? What's next, a Blues avatar?

Motown Beatdown
10-26-2004, 08:12 AM
That's the hope, and hey, what's with the Cards avatar? What's next, a Blues avatar?


I'm pulling for the Cards. As a history buff, the last time the Cards and Sox meet in the WS, the Cards won in 7. The next year the Tigers beat the Cards. History will repeat itself. :p:



(i wish)

leafaholix*
10-26-2004, 08:16 AM
You're forgetting that Riccardi fired a ton of those scouts.
Did he?

X0X0A0
10-26-2004, 12:55 PM
Did he?

Yes, including one of the best front office workers in the league Tim Wilken.

canuck293
10-26-2004, 05:40 PM
Regardless of who he fired or not, the Jays have a great scouting staff now, and are stocking their pool of prospects with alot of talent. We are now starting to see Ricciardi's picks starting to make the bigs. Russ Adams anyone? And aaron Hill is quickly on his way to the bigs as well.

I was wondering if anyone knows any good websites for the draft that has good reliable info on it. I'd really like to get a jump on the top players for this years draft.
Especially if there are any 1B expected to go near the top, I think that is the jays biggest need!

DocHolliday
10-26-2004, 07:30 PM
Regardless of who he fired or not, the Jays have a great scouting staff now, and are stocking their pool of prospects with alot of talent. We are now starting to see Ricciardi's picks starting to make the bigs. Russ Adams anyone? And aaron Hill is quickly on his way to the bigs as well.

I was wondering if anyone knows any good websites for the draft that has good reliable info on it. I'd really like to get a jump on the top players for this years draft.
Especially if there are any 1B expected to go near the top, I think that is the jays biggest need!
Drafting for need in baseball is foolish. You take the best player because you don't know what you'll need in 2-3-4-5 years when the player is ready to contribute

Brodeur
10-26-2004, 08:38 PM
Drafting for need in baseball is foolish. You take the best player because you don't know what you'll need in 2-3-4-5 years when the player is ready to contribute

A lot of position players, usually infielders, end up having to switch positions anyways.

canuck293
10-27-2004, 01:22 PM
Yes I realise that you don't draft for need, especially in baseball! I do however want to know about some of the top prospects, and can't find many reliable sites.

X0X0A0
10-27-2004, 02:13 PM
baseballamerica.com