Two Ukrainian players will be re-naturalized for the coming Eurohockey Challange Cup - Former Ukrainian U-International Viktor Andrushenko (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=19757) and the big VHL forward Alexander Toryanik (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=82166). As discussed in Sergei Gaiduchenko's thread these tournaments doesn't mean much in terms of sealing permanent eligibility, though it looks unlikely that these two guys have any other alternatives. That said they still are decent players and could help their NT in spring especially if we keep in mind how many NT veterans have retired in last few seasons.

There were hopes of a third player "returning home" but paperwork of Gomel's Yegor Yegorov (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=89261)wasn't finalized in time so he won't be able to play for Ukraine just yet. Still baby steps but looks like there's some more pride restored to Ukrainian hockey, as re-obtaining Ukrainian passports could damage their chances of getting contracts in Russia and Belarus.

Considering Ukraine had two players who were under 25 in the world championships last year, getting three players of that age or under committing is a big positive. Along with having their own professional league this year although I am not sure of the level of play (assuming very low) and HC Donbass, hockey in Ukraine seems to have gotten on the right path.

Good for Ukraine. Hopefully they can secure guys like Gaiduchenko, Zherdev, Ponikarovsky and Fedotenko for future tournaments. I'm not sure about Zherdev's eligibility, but I know the other guys can all play for Ukraine if they wish.

I am not sure of the level of play (assuming very low) and HC Donbass, hockey in Ukraine seems to have gotten on the right path.

Judging purely by the rosters, the level of play have already increased considerably. Though it's nothing to be too excited yet, but the low point of hockey programme seems to be in the past now.

Ukainian teams have beaten Belorussian in the friendlies, that says the level is not all that low, at least for Donbass-2, Berkut and Sokol

next big step would be creating a pan CIS league (Ukraine, Belorus', Latvija, mb Litva and some Russian teams that can't afford the VHL) or some top teams from fore-mentioned countries joining the VHL.

next big step would be creating a pan CIS league (Ukraine, Belorus', Latvija, mb Litva and some Russian teams that can't afford the VHL) or some top teams from fore-mentioned countries joining the VHL.

Anyone remembers EEHL? It died for a reason

Ukraine is such a big and rich country, with bigger hockey traditions than similarly populated Germany, with time and proper development plan, Ukraine could easily build a league like DEL. Though "proper plans" and Eastern Europe rarely mix.

Anyone remembers EEHL? It died for a reason

Ukraine is such a big and rich country, with bigger hockey traditions than similarly populated Germany, with time and proper development plan, Ukraine could easily build a league like DEL. Though "proper plans" and Eastern Europe rarely mix.

With Ukraine's declining population they only have about half the population of Germany and less than 1/10th the size of the economy (Germany is an economic powerhouse, it's not really fair to compare many countries to them).

Maybe a league that stretched through Ukraine and Poland could work. With Poland's economic growth in recent years they may start to produce more good hockey players.

We'll see I guess.

With Ukraine's declining population they only have about half the population of Germany and less than 1/10th the size of the economy (Germany is an economic powerhouse, it's not really fair to compare many countries to them).

Maybe a league that stretched through Ukraine and Poland could work. With Poland's economic growth in recent years they may start to produce more good hockey players.

We'll see I guess.

An united league with Poland is even bigger pipe dream. I'd say hockey is much higher up the foodchain in Ukraine than in Germany, that's why I think Ukraine can create their own DEL, unless there will be several Ukrainian teams in KHL.

And to stay on topic Ukraine convincingly beat Romania by seven goals. Both new boys got on scoresheet - Andryushenko with 1+1, Toryanik with 0+1.

I don't think a pan-CIS league makes any sense. That's what the KHL is for. For the minor leagues, I think national leagues make more sense. Keep travel costs down, try to drum up local interests, and allow a venue for smaller cities to get their own teams.

Once you make things international you up the ante a bit too far for these countries still struggling to get teams.

I don't think a pan-CIS league makes any sense. That's what the KHL is for. For the minor leagues, I think national leagues make more sense. Keep travel costs down, try to drum up local interests, and allow a venue for smaller cities to get their own teams.

Once you make things international you up the ante a bit too far for these countries still struggling to get teams.

Very true.

Is hockey rebounding at all in Ukraine? I know they used to have a decent program and would produce NHLers from time to time, but they have obviously been on the downswing for quite some time.

Is hockey rebounding at all in Ukraine? I know they used to have a decent program and would produce NHLers from time to time, but they have obviously been on the downswing for quite some time.

In one word - yes.

I'd say that Ukraine is still capable of producing NHLers, though they won't be developed at home all the way, like Zherdev, Babchuk or Sobchenko.

Yeah there will always be that small % of guys who are good enough to get scouted and into the Russian system when they're 17 or so. There will always be a few naturally gifted athletes to overcome the lack of a hockey program.

I think the national league and an eventual pro KHL team or two will make a world of change for Ukraine. Heck, even 1 KHL team and Ukraine's national team should rebound in a big way.

As for up and coming guys, watch for Maxim Kvitchenko in the MHL (Khimik). He's thankfully staying on the Uke national team.

As for up and coming guys, watch for Maxim Kvitchenko in the MHL (Khimik). He's thankfully staying on the Uke national team.
Unfortunately Kvitchenko is stuck on team with no senior team, he should be playing with men for a while now.

Ukrainians should celebrate that Kazan's Kutsevich didn't do a Tkachyov. Or maybe UKR hockey federation finally realized that they can and should cap anyone nice and early :)

damn, I was wondering why he was still stuck in the MHL, forgot Khimik went bottom up

how long is he gonna be locked up there? he should go to Donetsk or something, get some pro time in the RHL

damn, I was wondering why he was still stuck in the MHL, forgot Khimik went bottom up

how long is he gonna be locked up there? he should go to Donetsk or something, get some pro time in the RHL

Well, I don't think think that he has a lot of options currently. He might be a good enough player to get some playing time in KHL, unfortunately the biggest knock on him is the fact he is Ukrainian, thus foreigner. Which team would want to sign him as a foreigner, and inexperienced one? Most KHL teams have their own academy graduates to fill the holes anyway.

I agree Donetsk, seems like the most realistic location, even if he doesn't want to play in VHL, where else then? Because NA train probably has already gone (unless NCAA interests him).

He can just pick up a Russian passport on the street corner like every other player does to skirt the import rule


I don't see why he would have a problem playing in the VHL....at least it's pro; gotta start somewhere

He can just pick up a Russian passport on the street corner like every other player does to skirt the import rule


I don't see why he would have a problem playing in the VHL....at least it's pro; gotta start somewhere

Firstly, I don't think picking up a second passport would do the trick, he'd probably have stop playing for Ukraine internationally as well.

And if he's OK with playing in VHL, I can't imagine a reason good enough to sit at Voskresensk another year like he's doing currently.

Firstly, I don't think picking up a second passport would do the trick, he'd probably have stop playing for Ukraine internationally as well.

And if he's OK with playing in VHL, I can't imagine a reason good enough to sit at Voskresensk another year like he's doing currently.

I don't think they can be dual citizens? I am not sure about the laws of dual citizenship in Russia and Ukraine, but I don't think dual citizenship is allowed?

At any rate, one more reason Ukraine needs a KHL team and probably another VHL team or two (eventually)

Ponikarovsky and Antropov picked up Russian passports to play with Dynamo back in the day

Vyukhin and Razin played for team Ukraine but have/had Russian passports as well (and are listed on the KHL site as Russian)

dual citizenship in Ukraine isn't....technically legal. Maybe you could get a "fine"? Maybe they don't recognize the new citizenship? It gets overlooked.

I've seen Yegorov play lots of times and he is definitely maturing and playing a better physical game and two-way game imo.

Ponikarovsky and Antropov picked up Russian passports to play with Dynamo back in the day

Vyukhin and Razin played for team Ukraine but have/had Russian passports as well (and are listed on the KHL site as Russian)

dual citizenship in Ukraine isn't....technically legal. Maybe you could get a "fine"? Maybe they don't recognize the new citizenship? It gets overlooked.

When was the last time Razin and Vyukhin (I'm aware that he passed away) played for Ukraine? The whole "dual citizenship issue controversy" in Russia surfaced around the time Razin last participated in WC. So as I said passport alone isn't enough even in cases when player like Vyukhin is actually born in Russia too.

I'm sure Razin would gladly play for Ukraine every year, but it would do a severe damage to his finances. Currently he can only hope that Ukrainians will be made excempt of foreigner limit like Belarussians (and Kazakhs too? ).

If Ukraine makes it back to the WC, is there any possibility that Ponikarovsky and Fedotenko would come back and play internationally? Would likely be a huge boost to their program and efforts to bring Ukrainians back to the National team.

I know Zubrus is going to play for Lithuania when ever he gets the chance and I'd think Antropov would still play for Kazakhstan if he's healthy in the off season.

Anyone know their intentions?

If Ukraine makes it back to the WC, is there any possibility that Ponikarovsky and Fedotenko would come back and play internationally? Would likely be a huge boost to their program and efforts to bring Ukrainians back to the National team.

I know Zubrus is going to play for Lithuania when ever he gets the chance and I'd think Antropov would still play for Kazakhstan if he's healthy in the off season.

Anyone know their intentions?

I think both would if they were in the top division. If both play in the KHL next year, it'll be interesting to see if they try Ukraine again.

That said, Fedotenko has said in interviews that he has no intention on playing for Ukraine (from what I remember) and that he's American now

When was the last time Razin and Vyukhin (I'm aware that he passed away) played for Ukraine? The whole "dual citizenship issue controversy" in Russia surfaced around the time Razin last participated in WC. So as I said passport alone isn't enough even in cases when player like Vyukhin is actually born in Russia too.

I'm sure Razin would gladly play for Ukraine every year, but it would do a severe damage to his finances. Currently he can only hope that Ukrainians will be made excempt of foreigner limit like Belarussians (and Kazakhs too? ).

I'm unaware of a controversy, what happened?

that said, Ponikarovsky played with a Russian passport in the WC, and the KHL site lists Andrei Mikhnov as a Russian so I think it's safe to assume he got one too at some point

Gaiduchenko has both and is still waffling

I'm unaware of a controversy, what happened?


Essentially in summer 2004, some RSL club owners, RHF officials were unhappy that more and more players obtained Russian citizenship and yet continued playing for their respective countries. So they issued policy that playing for Ukraine, Kazakhstan or Belarus voided your home-player status and club owners forbid their players for playing for their NT's and, in order to remain employed, players obliged. So dual citizenship wasn't enough. Most of the players, who felt that they were not good enough to earn job in RSL as foreigners, stopped reporting to WC's. Razin, Vyukhin, Alexei Troschinsky or Upper are good examples of players taking hiatus from international hockey.

Though after KHL allowed more foreigners in the league so that's not such a big problem anymore, atleast for Kazakhs and Belarussians, but Ukrainians still are in a rough shape. So players like Kvitchenko are still taking a huge risk when they decide to report for Ukraine and maybe that's why he's still in the MHL, who knows.

Upper and Troschinsky both stopped around 5 years ago and came back in 2011, did something happen? Or do the owners just not care anymore?

Either way, interesting story, thanks

Upper and Troschinsky both stopped around 5 years ago and came back in 2011, did something happen? Or do the owners just not care anymore?

Either way, interesting story, thanks

They still care, but as I hinted some few posts earlier, it looks like from this season the league doesn't consider Kazakh players as foreigners just like Belarussian players.

For example Upper's team Atlant.

5 foreigners:
Kotschnew
Niskala
Andersson
Zackrinsson
Radivojevic

Dual nationals nationals playing for Russia:
Rudenko (well not playing)
Zherdev
Barulin

Plus there's German International Lewandowski who's still on International hockey hiatus since he started playing in Russia, so he's still "local" player.

And that leaves Upper as sixth foreigner.

For Vityaz situation is easier and it confirms my theory. They have five Canadians on roster + Troschinky. Of course, you can argue that there rarely has been a game were all of their Canadians been iced in a same game because of suspensions, therefore making juggling of six foreigners quite possible.

Same for Traktor - 5 foreigners + Razin (local player) + Kazakh international Vasilchenko.

As you can see I've not provided any links so I can be wrong, but it sure looks like that I'm right.

very interesting, like the KHL is foreshadowing the Eurasian Union

Ukraine NT players with KHL experience like Kasyanchuk, Shakhraychuk, Simchuk, and Mikhnov have all found their way back to Ukraine.

Maybe Kasyanchuk and Mikhnov could get back in KHL at some point.

Ukraine NT players with KHL experience like Kasyanchuk, Shakhraychuk, Simchuk, and Mikhnov have all found their way back to Ukraine.

Maybe Kasyanchuk and Mikhnov could get back in KHL at some point.

Only with a Ukrainian KHL team, otherwise I think it's unlikely.

Is there any talk of a Ukrainian KHL team for next season? Isn't Donbass trying to move up? Would be great if they or Sokil could become a KHL team and use the other for development in the VHL. An MHL team would be great for Ukrainian development as well.

Clearly there's a lot needed for them to get back on track, but the Ukrainian league and VHL team are a start!

Is there any talk of a Ukrainian KHL team for next season? Isn't Donbass trying to move up? Would be great if they or Sokil could become a KHL team and use the other for development in the VHL. An MHL team would be great for Ukrainian development as well.

Clearly there's a lot needed for them to get back on track, but the Ukrainian league and VHL team are a start!

According to owner Borys Kolesnikov, applying to the KHL depends on how the team performs in the VHL. If they win then they will apply to the KHL and already have an agreement in place for reasonable accommodation for a new arena and MHL team.

http://www.mournhockey.com.ua/page-id-1171.html (Russian)

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.mournhockey.com.ua/page-id-1171.html&ei=pUpKT4nMKseLiAKe2PnbDQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCMQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.mournhockey.com.ua/page-id-1171.html%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26biw%3D1024%26bi h%3D616%26prmd%3Dimvns (English)

According to owner Borys Kolesnikov, applying to the KHL depends on how the team performs in the VHL. If they win then they will apply to the KHL and already have an agreement in place for reasonable accommodation for a new arena and MHL team.

http://www.mournhockey.com.ua/page-id-1171.html (Russian)

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.mournhockey.com.ua/page-id-1171.html&ei=pUpKT4nMKseLiAKe2PnbDQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCMQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.mournhockey.com.ua/page-id-1171.html%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26biw%3D1024%26bi h%3D616%26prmd%3Dimvns (English)

Wow, that's a nice website there. Lots of good info.

The decision on applying for will depend on our athletic performance. If the "Donbass" will take part in the Cup final Bratina, the logical next step - filing in the KHL. At this point we have an arrangement with Mr. Medvedev, on a reasonable postponement of time to build a new arena and team building for the Youth Hockey League. If we do this season will act worse, then there would be no logic in our application in the KHL.

so even if they apply they need to build a new arena, or does this mean they'd be allowed to build one and play out of their current one for the time being?

and is he saying, if they make it to the finals then they'll do it, or just base it on overall performance? I mean, they're already performing well, is he really going to base the team's future aspirations on playoff results?

so even if they apply they need to build a new arena, or does this mean they'd be allowed to build one and play out of their current one for the time being?

and is he saying, if they make it to the finals then they'll do it, or just base it on overall performance? I mean, they're already performing well, is he really going to base the team's future aspirations on playoff results?

Honestly, I think they'll apply regardless if they win or not. They've apparently been successful already this season, so I don't see why they wouldn't apply. Would be great for Ukrainian hockey. It will be interesting to see if they get a team, which Ukrainian players they can attract to play for them.

If Donbass goes to the KHL, which Ukrainian team will move up to the VHL? Donbass-2 or Sokol?

I don't see a reason to have any Ukrainian teams in the VHL if Donbas gets promoted

Honestly, I think they'll apply regardless if they win or not. They've apparently been successful already this season, so I don't see why they wouldn't apply. Would be great for Ukrainian hockey. It will be interesting to see if they get a team, which Ukrainian players they can attract to play for them.

If Donbass goes to the KHL, which Ukrainian team will move up to the VHL? Donbass-2 or Sokol?

Why would an additional Ukrainian team move up to VHL? Farm team in VHL isn't a requirement. Every current non-Russian club have farm team in local league. In addition to that, there are Russian teams with no farm at all.

http://isport.ua/hockey/ukraine/news/193072.html

updates on Uke players around the leagues

Kvitchenko and Zadoenko won't be MHL eligible next year - does this make them FAs?

http://isport.ua/hockey/ukraine/news/193072.html

updates on Uke players around the leagues

Kvitchenko and Zadoenko won't be MHL eligible next year - does this make them FAs?

Most likely.

It's interesting that Gaiduchenko is mentioned in this article, but that's probably only a wishful journalism. As I already wrote, becoming an Ukrainian International will hurt his KHL chances severely, who would waste a valuable foreigner spot on a backup goalie?

In Donbas we trust.

Most likely.

It's interesting that Gaiduchenko is mentioned in this article, but that's probably only a wishful journalism. As I already wrote, becoming an Ukrainian International will hurt his KHL chances severely, who would waste a valuable foreigner spot on a backup goalie?

Well this could be a well calculated risk because if Donbass comes to the KHL in the next 2 years I'm sure he would be penciled in as the starter if he gets the citizenship.

I don't see a reason to have any Ukrainian teams in the VHL if Donbas gets promoted

Why would an additional Ukrainian team move up to VHL? Farm team in VHL isn't a requirement. Every current non-Russian club have farm team in local league. In addition to that, there are Russian teams with no farm at all.

Ahh, I thought that was a requirement.

Well this could be a well calculated risk because if Donbass comes to the KHL in the next 2 years I'm sure he would be penciled in as the starter if he gets the citizenship.

Very true. Having a goalie like Gaiduchenko would be a great boost to Ukraine.

Well this could be a well calculated risk because if Donbass comes to the KHL in the next 2 years I'm sure he would be penciled in as the starter if he gets the citizenship.

He will only make that calculated risk, when Donbass actually join the league and offers him a long term deal. And if Donbass will have true Donetsk-esque aspirations, I'm not sure he would be a starting goalie at all.

what do you mean by 'donetsk-esque aspirations'? that they'll go BPA?

what do you mean by 'donetsk-esque aspirations'? that they'll go BPA?

Indeed. Like Donetsk in football, "also ran" isn't good enough. Gathering local talant and fighting for last playoff spot like Riga is doing might not be in their plans at all.

Oseledets a young goalie from CSKA system has already moved to Donbass and I think will be getting a Ukr passport. He was pushed by two young goalies (Vokov and Filonenko) and started the season off poorly.

As for a replacement for Donbass in the VHL - I don't think it's necessarily for Ukraine at all if they are to develop a local league strong enough to develop prospects for Donbass. Something is telling me - Ukraine is many years away though with the way hockey's been treated there....Is Donbass going to have an MHL-B team next year?

Ukraine's WC roster is announced and it is painfully mediocre.

Varlamov is out with an injury once again, Andrushenko's and Yegorov's paperwork didn't go through in time. One notable addition is Yevgeni Pastukh who somehow makes his Ukraine being 33 years old, it's ridiculous (but understandable) that he haven't even suited up for Ukraine U teams previously. There are two more such blank page additions, VHL-ers Toryanik and Ramazanov. Also making his full debut is D-men Petrukhno, he had a solid year in PHL after several pretty miserable seasons in NA hockey basements. Bobkin returns after 5 year exile from NT which, Yakovenko returns from 12 (twelwe!) year exile.

If Ukraine will any noise in this year, it will be achieved by hard work rather than talanted roster.

lost to Austria, not much noise apparently...

they have now lost to Hungary and Austria

they have now lost to Hungary and Austria

I watched first game, and they lost deservedly. Austria was ****, but Ukraine even more so. Realistically they will fight for survival against Japan.

I watched first game, and they lost deservedly. Austria was ****, but Ukraine even more so. Realistically they will fight for survival against Japan.

So sad

Sad, considering the last 2 years they fought down to the wire to get promoted....*sigh*

Wow sad

So how many teams are relegated from D-1A?


I don't fully comprehend the current format?


Ukraine plays Great Britain tomorrow. Neither team have done well so far.


Ukraine 4-5 Austria
Ukraine 1-3 Hungary

UK 2-3 Slovenia
UK 3-7 Austria



Based on these very small samples one would have to hope that Ukraine would pull off a victory here.

So how many teams are relegated from D-1A?


I don't fully comprehend the current format?


Ukraine plays Great Britain tomorrow. Neither team have done well so far.


Ukraine 4-5 Austria
Ukraine 1-3 Hungary

UK 2-3 Slovenia
UK 3-7 Austria



Based on these very small samples one would have to hope that Ukraine would pull off a victory here.

Only one team gets relegated.

I can predict that GB will convincingly outshoot the Ukraine, but the game itself will be a close one. GB is a younger and faster team, so Ukraine will have to rely on experience and more skill based game. I think GB will win this one.

Only one team gets relegated.

I can predict that GB will convincingly outshoot the Ukraine, but the game itself will be a close one. GB is a younger and faster team, so Ukraine will have to rely on experience and more skill based game. I think GB will win this one.

I was really wrong about the shots, but sadly not about the eventual outcome.

this is ridiculous, and a huge obstacle to overcome attempting to rebuild Ukraine's hockey program.

this is ridiculous, and a huge obstacle to overcome attempting to rebuild Ukraine's hockey program.

Nothing ridiculous about this outcome, Ukrainian hockey has been slowly creeping towards these results for 20 years. Though it will be a "huge obstacle" only if Ukraine really manages to get themselves relegated, because getting promoted next year will be even bigger ask. Not to mention bad rep this tournament will attach to Ukrainian hockey. There's nothing going on in Ukrainian hockey that could capture the imagination of Ukrainian kids lately. Football and basketball championships will only push hockey even closer to oblivion in coming years.

Well at least we can comfort ourselves that the best players aren't there.

OH wait, that doesn't matter. :shakehead

Hard to blame Ukraine for being the oldest team in the tourney by a longshot, when all the three debutants haven't done anything useful too. This team really needs Varlamov, Andrushenko and Yegorov, maybe Gongalsky could provide some spark as well.

Operation relegation: Successful.

Well the hockey team is just following the general societal trend. :shakehead

Next year´s Div IB most likely final: Ukraine - Poland.....I guess you can see that tehy are truly Slovakia´s neighbours, even they are failing more and more at hockey with every year....

On the plus side...it can only get better from here

On the plus side...it can only get better from here

Woah there. That's just asking for it at this point. :cry:

we have a league and a KHL team and possibly a major junior team in the near future...there's no way that our development and production of players continues to deteriorate as bad as it has....it can only get better, we don't belong with the likes of Poland and company

we'll get back up to div A...in a few years maybe

we have a league and a KHL team and possibly a major junior team in the near future...there's no way that our development and production of players continues to deteriorate as bad as it has....it can only get better, we don't belong with the likes of Poland and company

we'll get back up to div A...in a few years maybe

I dig the positive vibes.

we have a league and a KHL team and possibly a major junior team in the near future...there's no way that our development and production of players continues to deteriorate as bad as it has....it can only get better, we don't belong with the likes of Poland and company

we'll get back up to div A...in a few years maybe

Yeah you got to hope this is the 'rock bottom' momment for Ukraine. There are some positivies right now, but one club isn't going to turn everything around.

we have a league and a KHL team and possibly a major junior team in the near future...there's no way that our development and production of players continues to deteriorate as bad as it has....it can only get better, we don't belong with the likes of Poland and company

we'll get back up to div A...in a few years maybe

IA or Elite?

There are some promising kids in the pipeline but looks like the real revival will start after birthyear of 1998 will be breaking through.

Yeah you got to hope this is the 'rock bottom' momment for Ukraine. There are some positivies right now, but one club isn't going to turn everything around.

it's not like i'm saying things will just skyrocket back up from here, but the bleeding will stop...I would hope/expect

i mean, come on, japan and england are ahead of us - really?! we continue to produce NHL and KHL level talent, if we can retain some we shouldn't even be having this discussion


JAPAN AND BRITAIN. UGH.

This thread has died a bit, but I'll take a moment and say that this year's Ukraine NT could look particularly ****. The promotion won't be and easy task, those Lithuanians look scary now.