If Moss is the best reciever in the NFL, who is #2?

Okay, so let's face it.....Randy Moss has become the near-consensus decision for the best wideout in football.

But now that's settled....who is the 2nd best WR? Is it still Marvin Harrison? Is it Owens, who has used his strength and arms to make the Eagles offense one of the best in the NFL? Is it Hines Ward, who uses his size and strength to punish defenders? Is it Torry Holt with his amazing route running and ability to seemingly always catch the ball when it is thrown to him?

Hines Ward, the most complete receiver in the league. Glue hands, one of, if not the best route runners, blocks like an offensive guard, leader both on and off the field, etc. He just never seems to get the respect he deserves from fans because he's not a pompous jackass.

My top 5...
1. Randy Moss
2. Hines Ward
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Torry Holt
5. Terrell Owens

Honestly 2 through 5 are interchangable, but that's the way I rank it. There's a fairly decent drop off after #5 no matter who you rank there.

I like to play with dolls

Owens.

Hines Ward, the most complete receiver in the league. Glue hands, one of, if not the best route runners, blocks like an offensive guard, leader both on and off the field, etc.

My top 5...
1. Randy Moss
2. Hines Ward
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Torry Holt
5. Terrell Owens

Honestly 2 through 5 are interchangable, but that's the way I rank it.

Just out of sheer curiosity (I don't have an extremely strong opinion on the topic, so I'm just asking)....do you believe Ward, Harrison and Holt could have all transformed the Eagles offense in the way Owens has played a very large role in doing?

Just out of sheer curiosity (I don't have an extremely strong opinion on the topic, so I'm just asking)....do you believe Ward, Harrison and Holt could have all transformed the Eagles offense in the way Owens has played a very large role in doing?

Definitely.

When you go that long without a formidable top threat receiver, things are gonna change. Especially when you have a QB like McNabb.

Owens has a big thing going for him that the other 3 don't though, he's easily the Eagles best receiver by a friggin mile, so he's obviously going to be McNabb's first target. Ward has Burress and Randle-El, Holt has Bruce, Harrison has Wayne and Stokley, etc.

That doesn't take away from Owens, but it definitely helps explain why Owens has helped change the Eagles offense so greatly.

I can't imagine the kind of stats Ward could put up if he was on a team who couldn't boast 2nd and 3rd options like the Steelers can and on a team who wasn't so run oriented. Even with that receiving core the Steelers bread and butter is the running game...

Owens has a big thing going for him that the other 3 don't though, he's easily the Eagles best receiver by a friggin mile, so he's obviously going to be McNabb's first target. Ward has Burress and Randle-El, Holt has Bruce, Harrison has Wayne and Stokley, etc.

That doesn't take away from Owens, but it definitely helps explain why Owens has helped change the Eagles offense so greatly.

Well, you could use the fact that the Eagles don't have any other great recievers to make the exact opposite argument, though. With a potent group of recievers on St Louis, Indianapolis and Pittsburgh, defenders playing those teams have to worry about everyone on the field. However, defenses can put more attention on Owens when playing Philadelphia than they could on Holt, Harrison or Ward...meaning those recievers eventually get much, much more one-on-one matchups than Owens does.

You could, and you may be right at times.

Personally I look at it more that the others are taking catches away from each other. Look at the 1970s Steelers, at Lynn Swann and John Stallworth. Look at their stats and tell me they belong in the Hall of Fame...and then look at them playing and tell me they don't belong in the Hall of Fame. No better case of receivers taking plays away from each other than those two.

IMO, there's no way Ward is better than either Owens or Harrison and I'm a Steelers fan. I'd take him over Holt though, by a slim margin.

1- Moss
2a- Harrison
2b- OWens
4- Ward
5- Holt

You're French, your opinion doesn't count. :p:

On the field there's only one place where Owens has a decided advantage over Ward IMO, big play potential. There's no doubting, Plaxico Burress is the Steelers deep threat, not Ward. Ward will break a few big plays, but he makes his name muking it up fighting for every yard possible with 3 guys on his back, not for leaving defenses in the dust. If there's one play left with the ball at the 50 yard line I'll take Owens over Ward 100 times out of 100. That's about it though.

Moss, Owens and Harrisson are all in the top level. Interchangable with Moss being the most talented, Harrisson being the most consistent, Owens with the ability to make the biggest splash.

Holt, Ward would be in the second group. If you think otherwise, you're probably a homer or just don't see why the 3 mentioned above are the biggest gamebreakers in the league.

For my money it goes...

1. Moss
2. Owens
3. Harrison
4. Holt
5. Ward

Hines Ward is not better than Torry Holt.

Hines Ward is not better than Torry Holt.

Give me some reasons why.

There is nothing Holt does better, besides have a small speed advantage.

Give me some reasons why.

There is nothing Holt does better, besides have a small speed advantage.

I like Ward, I think he is a great player.

That said, Ward is an over-achiever. No player does more with less. He works his tail off, he runs great routes and he blocks ferociously. However, he doesn't have the flat-out talent to beat a double team. Owens, Harrison, Moss do. Ward didn't emerge as a household name until after he had Burress lining up opposite him. Not that Burress is all-that, but he is a legit threat that teams have to consider.

Now, all that said, I don't know if Holt can as well. Bruce is still a quality threat keeping defenses honest.

For what it is worth, I would take Ward over Holt but after Harrison, Moss and Owens. I think Moulds deserves a mention here as well, although he is stuck in a bad situation right now. Judging by what I have seen so far, Andre Johnson will rocket up the list as well.

Judging by what I have seen so far, Andre Johnson will rocket up the list as well.

I actually contemplated adding him to the poll....though right now, I'd say he's in the 2nd tier with guys like Chad Johnson, Eric Moulds and Chris Chambers (also stuck in a bad situation).

I actually contemplated adding him to the poll....though right now, I'd say he's in the 2nd tier with guys like Chad Johnson, Eric Moulds and Chris Chambers (also stuck in a bad situation).

Agreed.

Back to Ward...I don't think it's fair to say he didn't start playing as well until Burress showed up. Sure, his stats were better once Burress picked it up, but that had more with Ward coming into his own than Burress. Like you said, Ward is an over-achiever, which is the biggest reason why he wasn't great out of the gate. He was the Steelers fourth receiver his rookie year of 1998. In 1999 he started 14 of 16 games and had 68 receptions, the year before Burress was drafted. The year Burress was drafted Ward's stats actually fell off a bit. 13 less catches, 3 less TDs, but 34 more yards!

He is a huge over-achiever though. He was a QB in high school and a star baseball player(he was even drafted by the Florida Marlins in 1994) and didn't switch to a receiver until his junior year at Georgia(played QB and HB as a freshman and sophomore). I think that has more to do with his slow start in the NFL than actual skill.

As for his ability to shake-off double-coverages...he can do it just as well as anyone. You throw the ball in his area and he'll catch it, he's as close to automatic as they come. His big play potential is cut back though due to his size(6'0") and his speed(he's not slow by any means, but he's never going to be considered a speed receiver either).

My top 5...
1) Randy Moss - no one is even close to his level.
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2) Marvin Harrison
3) Terrell Owen
4) Torry Holt
5) Javon Walker

up and comers...
1) Roy Williams
2) Andre Johnson
3) Chad Johnson
4) Reggie Williams
5) Nate Burleson

oh come on, there's no bloody way in hell Javon Walker is better than Hines Ward!

Lee Mays.

And...

My top 5...
1) Randy Moss - no one is even close to his level.
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2) Marvin Harrison
3) Terrell Owen
4) Torry Holt
5) Javon Walker

:lol :lol :lol

But mine are:

1 Moss
2 Owens
3 Ward
4(t) Holt/Harrison

oh come on, there's no bloody way in hell Javon Walker is better than Hines Ward!
yeah, and why not? Ward is a great reciever but I think that Walker is bette and also has better upside. I am not an expert, it's just my opinion though, don't get all crazy.

Harrison probably isn't as good as Moss, but gives him a run for his money. Same with Owens. You notice the other two(Moss and Owens) and big and loud, especially the loud part. You always read about something Moss has done or said, same with Owens. Harrison isn't big and loud, so IMO, he doesn't get as much attention. Still, I'd say Moss is tops. My list:


1.Moss
2.Harrison
3.Owens(all three very, very close)
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4.Holt
5.Ward
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6.C.Johnson
7.Bruce
8.Chambers
9.A.Johnson
10.Moulds

Harrison.

Owens is an idiot, so that knocks some points off.

Owens is an idiot,
lol, that's an understatement.

IDIOT
Definition: [n] a person of subnormal intelligence

I don't quite see the connection....

IDIOT
Definition: [n] a person of subnormal intelligence

I don't quite see the connection....

:rolleyes:

My top 5...
1) Randy Moss - no one is even close to his level.
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2) Marvin Harrison
3) Terrell Owen
4) Torry Holt
5) Javon Walker

up and comers...
1) Roy Williams
2) Andre Johnson
3) Chad Johnson
4) Reggie Williams
5) Nate Burleson

For up and comers, where is Larry Fitzgerald?

IDIOT
Definition: [n] a person of subnormal intelligence

I don't quite see the connection....

Well, I think someone who was of normal intelligence would be able to comprehend what was and was not allowed during a touchdown celebration.

Hines Ward, the most complete receiver in the league. Glue hands, one of, if not the best route runners, blocks like an offensive guard, leader both on and off the field, etc. He just never seems to get the respect he deserves from fans because he's not a pompous jackass.

My top 5...
1. Randy Moss
2. Hines Ward
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Torry Holt
5. Terrell Owens

Honestly 2 through 5 are interchangable, but that's the way I rank it. There's a fairly decent drop off after #5 no matter who you rank there.
so Big Ben's the second coming of Marino, Ward is without a doubt(!!) the second best reciever in the NFL, let me guess the entire Steelers team are the best of the bests



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Tough to say because there are key differences between the remaining ones in that elite group of receivers. We can go on a year basis if we want, this year it'd have to be TO.

For up and comers, where is Larry Fitzgerald?
absolutely, somehow I forgot to put him in there.

Andre Johnson will rocket up the list as well.

Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams and Charles Rogers will be the tops in this league in 2-3 years.

Roy Williams is already jumping ahead of many vets in the league. Id take Roy Williams over Torry Holt And Hines Ward. As a few of my friends have said, and ive seen written on the net. I wouldnt trade Roy Williams for ANYBODY in the NFL. Not that hes better than everybody else, but Hes already better than most, and hes just a Rookie.

But yes im a lions fan, and im biased. But this guy is simply a freak. He had a bad ankle Sunday [Sprain] And Still went for almost 100 yards and a Touchdown.

Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams and Charles Rogers will be the tops in this league in 2-3 years.

Roy Williams is already jumping ahead of many vets in the league. Id take Roy Williams over Torry Holt And Hines Ward. As a few of my friends have said, and ive seen written on the net. I wouldnt trade Roy Williams for ANYBODY in the NFL. Not that hes better than everybody else, but Hes already better than most, and hes just a Rookie.

But yes im a lions fan, and im biased. But this guy is simply a freak. He had a bad ankle Sunday [Sprain] And Still went for almost 100 yards and a Touchdown.

You can never judge any player at any position by one season alone.

Besides....if you did, then Anquan Boldin should be borderline top 5 WR already, and the best WR in the league within a few years by default.

Give me some reasons why.

There is nothing Holt does better, besides have a small speed advantage.

What's the point? When I tell you that Holt is a better route runner, you'd tell me that I was wrong, even though it's true. When I tell you that Holt has better hands, you'd tell me I was wrong, even though it's true. So, I'll just leave it at....

When Ward leads the league in reception yards, get back to me.

Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams and Charles Rogers will be the tops in this league in 2-3 years.

Roy Williams is already jumping ahead of many vets in the league. Id take Roy Williams over Torry Holt And Hines Ward. As a few of my friends have said, and ive seen written on the net. I wouldnt trade Roy Williams for ANYBODY in the NFL. Not that hes better than everybody else, but Hes already better than most, and hes just a Rookie.

But yes im a lions fan, and im biased. But this guy is simply a freak. He had a bad ankle Sunday [Sprain] And Still went for almost 100 yards and a Touchdown.

Biased would be putting it lightly. Randy Moss is 27. Torry Holt is 28. Hines Ward is 28. The players you mention have a LOT to prove before anyone is going to buy that they'll be 'tops in this league in 2-3 years'.

What's the point? When I tell you that Holt is a better route runner, you'd tell me that I was wrong, even though it's true. When I tell you that Holt has better hands, you'd tell me I was wrong, even though it's true. So, I'll just leave it at....

When Ward leads the league in reception yards, get back to me.

Ward never will in this offense. Neither would Moss, Owens, Holt, Harrison, etc. You can't run the ball 60% of the time and then lead the league in receiving yards still, it just can't be done.

so Big Ben's the second coming of Marino, Ward is without a doubt(!!) the second best reciever in the NFL, let me guess the entire Steelers team are the best of the bests

Alan Faneca is the best guard and Casey Hampton is the best nose tackle(which there's only about 5 in the league to begin with...but still)...



















What's your point exactly? :p:

I would add Michael Clayton and Koren Robinson to that list of young receivers.

Right now it has to be TO...he has so much size, strength and speed. That fly pattern that Philly runs to him has been unstoppable. Should be interesting to see if his numbers suffer because of Westbrook's recent injury.

My list is of receivers with at least 2 years experience:

1. Randy Moss
2. Terrell Owens
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Torry Holt
5. Hines Ward
6. Joe Horn
7. Chad Johnson
8. Eric Moulds
9. Javon Walker
10. Derrick Mason

Alan Faneca is the best guard

2nd best....sorry, but I'd take Will Shields over Faneca without hesitation.

I would add Michael Clayton and Koren Robinson to that list of young receivers.
I was just going to mention Clayton as an up and coming wideout, but I'm gald someone else has. It makes me look like less of a homer.

1. Randy Moss
2. Terrell Owens
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Torry Holt
5. Hines Ward

Switch up Owens and Harrison and you've got my top 5. Its all pretty close, though (except for Moss).

Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams and Charles Rogers will be the tops in this league in 2-3 years.

In 2-3 years, Rogers might actually have 5 NFL games to his credit.

Ward never will in this offense. Neither would Moss, Owens, Holt, Harrison, etc. You can't run the ball 60% of the time and then lead the league in receiving yards still, it just can't be done.

Ward's best year is 112 catches for 1329 yards for 11.8 yards per catch.

Holt's best year is 117 catches for 1696 yards for 14.5 yards per catch.

Is that because Pittsburgh runs the ball 60% of the time too?

Ward didn't emerge as a household name until after he had Burress lining up opposite him. Not that Burress is all-that, but he is a legit threat that teams have to consider.

That's the flip side of this argument to me. Is there a receiver that does less with more than Plax Burress? He's so big, fast, and has really good hands - but sometimes it seems like he couldn't care less.
:shakehead

That's the flip side of this argument to me. Is there a receiver that does less with more than Plax Burress? He's so big, fast, and has really good hands - but sometimes it seems like he couldn't care less.
:shakehead

I completely agree. He has the tools, but not the motivation or concentration.

He will get grossly overpaid from somebody this next summer. He is a good #2 guy, but that is all he is. I thought a contract year would motivate him to be something more, but it hasn't. 2 dollar body with a 2 cent head.

Yep, a big disapointment. Plaxico should be a top 5 receiver with all his tools, but he can't manage the toolbox well enough.
He has a good chemistry with Big Ben though it must be noted.

Next season he's going to get a big raise, but I expect the Steelers not to miss a beat without him.

I agree with the sentiment that it's Moss, Owens, Harrison - and then everybody else. Holt plays in an offense that benefits his numbers greatly (he performs, but would he be the same if he played for a non Mike Martz team?). Ward probably plays the game harder than any other receiver out there but is not as talented as the top 3.

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This guy could get up there, but that's going to be as much about Carson Palmer as anything else. We'll see what happens.

I completely agree. He has the tools, but not the motivation or concentration.

He will get grossly overpaid from somebody this next summer. He is a good #2 guy, but that is all he is. I thought a contract year would motivate him to be something more, but it hasn't. 2 dollar body with a 2 cent head.

I agree that Burress hasn't played up to the level expected, and was a major dissapointment the first 4 games of the year, he's been absolutely phenominal the past 2.