Talent level by league

Don't know much about any leagues outside the NHL, but how far removed do you thing the talent of the top level european leagues are removed (I would imagine it would be a lot less then most people in NA think). Also could anyone rank leagues based on talent

NHL
KHL
AHL / SEL
DEL / Finns SML / Swiss NLA
Czech EL / Austria
ECHL / France / Italy / UK / Denmark

NHL
KHL
AHL / SEL / Swiss NLA
DEL / Finns SML
Czech EL / Austria
ECHL / France / Italy / UK / Denmark/ Kazakhstan
Slovakia

Has Finland really dropped that "far"? Not long ago they were right up there with Sweden, possibly slightly worse.

Has Finland really dropped that "far"? Not long ago they were right up there with Sweden, possibly slightly worse.

No. That just seems to be the consensus on Hfboards. IMHO SM-liiga has gotten better in recent years. For example a couple of years ago there were pretty much no swedes or slovaks playing in the SM-liiga, now there are plenty of good EHT-level swedes and a line-full of guys that could play for Slovakia in the World Championships (Juraj Mikus is a lock, Kristian Kudroc probably a lock, Tomas Zaborsky would be a lock without the surgery, Josef Stumpel and Richard Lintner might both get a call if they want to participate, Milan Kytnar has been in the talks...) Also the prospect pool is better than it has been for a decade (Granlunds, Pulkkinen, Vatanen, Armia, Barkov, Salomäki..).

Another notable fact is that the player-movement between SEL and SM-liiga has been towards SM-liiga for a couple of years now. Ville Viitaluoma was the only (!!) player going from SM-liiga to SEL, while more than 20 finnish and foreign players went the other direction (from SEL to SM-liiga).

I'd personally still but SEL and SM-liiga in the same category when it comes to talent level as of right now, but if this development continues it shouldn't take all that long before we start considering SM-liiga a step ahead of the SEL.

BTW: the rankings posted above are terrible. Ozo's ranking gets a special mention. Cze Extraliga and the Austrian Erste bank liga equal? Danish league not better than the leagues in UK and France? The Slovakian league worse than ECHL / France / Italy / UK / Denmark/ Kazakhstan?

No. That just seems to be the consensus on Hfboards. IMHO SM-liiga has gotten better in recent years. For example a couple of years ago there were pretty much no swedes or slovaks playing in the SM-liiga, now there are plenty of good EHT-level swedes and a line-full of guys that could play for Slovakia in the World Championships (Juraj Mikus is a lock, Kristian Kudroc probably a lock, Tomas Zaborsky would be a lock without the surgery, Josef Stumpel and Richard Lintner might both get a call if they want to participate, Milan Kytnar has been in the talks...) Also the prospect pool is better than it has been for a decade (Granlunds, Pulkkinen, Vatanen, Armia, Barkov, Salomäki..).

Another notable fact is that the player-movement between SEL and SM-liiga has been towards SM-liiga for a couple of years now. Ville Viitaluoma was the only (!!) player going from SM-liiga to SEL, while more than 20 finnish and foreign players went the other direction (from SEL to SM-liiga).

I'd personally still but SEL and SM-liiga in the same category when it comes to talent level as of right now, but if this development continues it shouldn't take all that long before we start considering SM-liiga a step ahead of the SEL.

BTW: the rankings posted above are terrible. Ozo's ranking gets a special mention. Cze Extraliga and the Austrian Erste bank liga equal? Danish league not better than the leagues in UK and France? The Slovakian league worse than ECHL / France / Italy / UK / Denmark/ Kazakhstan?
Ask our Slovak friend, Vorky about the level of Slovak league, he'll put all of those leagues + Russian junior league ahead of Slovak league.

Mikus as an example of the improving level of SM-Liga. lol And then most of the players you mentioned won't be playing in Finland next year for one reason or another.

NHL
KHL
AHL / SEL / Swiss NLA
DEL / Finns SML
Czech EL / Austria
ECHL / France / Italy / UK / Denmark/ Kazakhstan
Slovakia

I would definitely place AHL another step down, I am higly surprised by the finish league and Kazakhstan shouldn't be underestimated ... they are far from the world and nobody knows them ...but they are an ex Russia country and have a team in KHL ... i am convinced they deserve better
therefore my ranking would look like :

NHL
KHL
SEL / Swiss NLA / Finns SML
AHL/DEL
Czech EL / Austria / Kazakhstan
ECHL / France / Italy / UK / Denmark / Slovakia

Eventually i would move Slovakia up by 1 notch ... but it is very intuitively (can't imagine them being the level of France or Italy. therefore i write about it ... i don't really change it on the paper)

NHL
KHL
AHL / SEL / Swiss NLA
DEL / Finns SML
Czech EL / Austria
ECHL / France / Italy / UK / Denmark/ Kazakhstan
Slovakia

Are kidding me? :laugh:

Slovak Extraliga decreased in the period 2000-2007. Since then it has improved a little bit. The league is far more young and interesting nowadays than around the year 2007.
Slovan Bratislava and HC Košice are teams on the level of Czech Extraliga. HK36 Skalica and HK ŠKP Poprad are just a little bit weaker this season. The next is Dukla Trenčín. Their system still develop some young talented players. Rest of the teams are almost on the level you wrote.

My ranking would be something like this:

NHL
KHL
SEL / AHL
NLA / SM Liiga / Czech Extraliga
DEL
Slovak Extraliga / EBEL
VHL / Allsvenskan
ECHL / Denmark / Belarus
France / Italy / UK / Kazakhstan...

Nice list, Krotak. Of course you have to take my list with a pinch (a boatload actually :D ) of salt, simply because I haven't seen a single game from most of these leagues. I'm judging purely from transfer point of way, what players go where, what kinda of success they have etc.

Where would you put Belarussian league?

I guess Belarussian league is probably on the level of league in Denmark.

Are kidding me? :laugh:

Slovak Extraliga decreased in the period 2000-2007. Since then it has improved a little bit. The league is far more young and interesting nowadays than around the year 2007.
Slovan Bratislava and HC Košice are teams on the level of Czech Extraliga. HK36 Skalica and HK ŠKP Poprad are just a little bit weaker this season. The next is Dukla Trenčín. Their system still develop some young talented players. Rest of the teams are almost on the level you wrote.

My ranking would be something like this:

NHL
KHL
SEL / AHL
NLA / SM Liiga / Czech Extraliga
DEL
Slovak Extraliga / EBEL
VHL / Allsvenskan
ECHL / Denmark / Belarus
France / Italy / UK / Kazakhstan...

I have little precise idea in fact about many ... yet NLA > AHL !
without a shadow of a doubt !

In 2008, the IIHF published a European League ranking to be used for seeding for the now-defunct Champions Hockey League.

Apparently, this ranking was based on judging the strength of the best club teams in each league, as well as the overall strength of leagues (sportive parity and depth, infrastructure, economic stability, market dimension etc.). The sportive criteria that had been taken into consideration were primarily the results in the European Champions Cup (2005-2008) and the last three years’ participation in the Continental Cup.

The 2008 IIHF League Ranking for CHL seeding.

1. Russia
2. Finland
3. Czech Republic
4. Sweden
5. Slovakia
6. Switzerland
7. Germany
8. Belarus
9. Latvia
10. Denmark
11. Austria
12. Kazakhstan
13. Norway
14. France
15. Slovenia
16. Italy
17. Hungary
18. Poland
19. Netherlands
20. Ukraine
21. Great Britain
22. Romania
23. Lithuania
24. Croatia
25. Serbia
26. Estonia
27. Bulgaria
28. Spain
29. Turkey
30. Israel

Now, one can make many arguments against the order displayed above (for instance, it baffles me to see us Dutchies ranked above Ukraine and Great-Britain. Even though the EIHL is highly overrated, they shouldn't be ranked THAT low).

Then again, that was 2008, and it's 2012 now. I'd say that the Swiss NLA is definitely the top European league behind the KHL. After that, ranking becomes more difficult. I'd say that Sweden & Finland round out the top 4. There has been a serious talent drain from both the Czech & Slovak leagues, so I wouldn't rank the Extraligas that high anymore.

Latvia shouldn't be ranked that high either. They have great talent and a great team with Dynamo Riga, but their own domestic league isn't of that high a standard.

Same goes for Denmark. Since a lot of the teams ran into financial troubles a few years ago, the league is rebuilding, but hasn't reached the same level yet.

If one goes further down the list: Serbia doens't even HAVE a domestic league anymore, so they shouldn't even be on this list. They do have one decent team (Partizan Belgrado) playing in the Slovenian league.

All this being said, we still haven't added the North-America minor pro leagues into this mix. As well as some second tier leagues (Allsvenskan, Mestis, VHL, 2. Bundesliga, etc.) that would easily rank within the top 20. And we mustn't forget the Asian Hockey League either. Those teams operate with budgets that many European teams can only dream about.

In 2008, the IIHF published a European League ranking to be used for seeding for the now-defunct Champions Hockey League.

Apparently, this ranking was based on judging the strength of the best club teams in each league, as well as the overall strength of leagues (sportive parity and depth, infrastructure, economic stability, market dimension etc.). The sportive criteria that had been taken into consideration were primarily the results in the European Champions Cup (2005-2008) and the last three years’ participation in the Continental Cup.

The 2008 IIHF League Ranking for CHL seeding.

1. Russia
2. Finland
3. Czech Republic
4. Sweden
5. Slovakia
6. Switzerland
7. Germany
8. Belarus
9. Latvia
10. Denmark
11. Austria
12. Kazakhstan
13. Norway
14. France
15. Slovenia
16. Italy
17. Hungary
18. Poland
19. Netherlands
20. Ukraine
21. Great Britain
22. Romania
23. Lithuania
24. Croatia
25. Serbia
26. Estonia
27. Bulgaria
28. Spain
29. Turkey
30. Israel

Now, one can make many arguments against the order displayed above (for instance, it baffles me to see us Dutchies ranked above Ukraine and Great-Britain. Even though the EIHL is highly overrated, they shouldn't be ranked THAT low).

Then again, that was 2008, and it's 2012 now. I'd say that the Swiss NLA is definitely the top European league behind the KHL. After that, ranking becomes more difficult. I'd say that Sweden & Finland round out the top 4. There has been a serious talent drain from both the Czech & Slovak leagues, so I wouldn't rank the Extraligas that high anymore.

Latvia shouldn't be ranked that high either. They have great talent and a great team with Dynamo Riga, but their own domestic league isn't of that high a standard.

Same goes for Denmark. Since a lot of the teams ran into financial troubles a few years ago, the league is rebuilding, but hasn't reached the same level yet.

If one goes further down the list: Serbia doens't even HAVE a domestic league anymore, so they shouldn't even be on this list. They do have one decent team (Partizan Belgrado) playing in the Slovenian league.

All this being said, we still haven't added the North-America minor pro leagues into this mix. As well as some second tier leagues (Allsvenskan, Mestis, VHL, 2. Bundesliga, etc.) that would easily rank within the top 20. And we mustn't forget the Asian Hockey League either. Those teams operate with budgets that many European teams can only dream about.

Also, when it comes to Croatia, Zagreb is like Kazakhstan where the top team plays in a whole different league involving better competition. Croatia as a whole is low though.

NHL
KHL
SEL/AHL
DEL/Swiss NLA / Finns SML
Czech EL / Austria / Slovakia
ECHL / France / Italy / UK / Denmark / Norway

NHL
KHL
SEL/AHL
DEL/Swiss NLA / Finns SML
Czech EL / Austria / Slovakia
ECHL / France / Italy / UK / Denmark / Norway

There is no way the DEL is as good as Finnish leage. If people refuse to put them together with SEL, at least make them their own row.

NHL
KHL
SEL / Swiss NLA
Finns SML / AHL
DEL / Czech EL / / Slovakia
Austria / Kazakhstan / Norway / Denmark

NHL
KHL
SEL / Swiss NLA
Finns SML / AHL
DEL / Czech EL / / Slovakia
Austria / Kazakhstan / Norway / Denmark

I'd swap SM-liiga and the NLA, or put them on par slightly bellow SEL.

VHL and Alsvenskan should be in there somewhere. I don't know much about VHL, but I imagine it should be a reay good league. Alsvenskan is excellent for a second tier league, clearly better than the league in Norway or Denmark at least. Judging by their stats in Allsvenskan this season for the players that played their previous season in the Austrian league, Allsvenskan is also clearly superior to that league. I don't think DEL is so much better either (probably a bitbetter though).

ECHL Should be higher on some of these list. Yeah some have higher end players but depth wise ECHL is a lot deeper.

ECHL Should be higher on some of these list. Yeah some have higher end players but depth wise ECHL is a lot deeper.

ECHL have good goalies, but besides that I don't think it ranks high at all. Theres just so many other leagues that players will chose to make money rather than playing in ECHL. My guess is that it ranks pretty low among the words leagues.

delete

NHL
KHL
Elitserien/SM-liiga
Swiss NLA/AHL
DEL/Czech EL/VHL/Allsvenskan
Austria/Slovakia/Mestis
ECHL / France / Italy / UK / Denmark / Norway

Ask our Slovak friend, Vorky about the level of Slovak league, he'll put all of those leagues + Russian junior league ahead of Slovak league.

Mikus as an example of the improving level of SM-Liga. lol And then most of the players you mentioned won't be playing in Finland next year for one reason or another.

But not to forget, that the list of Vorky. He doesnt represent all of us, other Slovak members. :shakehead
We will putt Slovak league a little bit higher.

Lol at all eastern Europeans ranking SM-Liiga so low.

Lol at all eastern Europeans ranking SM-Liiga so low.

I know, I don't get it. I'd rank them with SEL or just barely below. Ranking them with DEL is just wrong.

My ranking would be something like this:

NHL
KHL
SEL / AHL
NLA / SM Liiga / Czech Extraliga
DEL
Slovak Extraliga / EBEL
VHL / Allsvenskan
ECHL / Denmark / Belarus
France / Italy / UK / Kazakhstan...

Very solid list. :handclap:

NHL
KHL
Elitserien/SM-liiga
Swiss NLA/AHL
DEL/Czech EL/VHL/Allsvenskan
Austria/Slovakia/Mestis
ECHL / France / Italy / UK / Denmark / Norway


I think this is the best list so far.

Though I would rank Elitserien slightly higher than SM-Liiga.

KHL
Elitserien
NLA/AHL/SM-Liiga
DEL/Allsvenskan

Those are, imo, the top leagues in Europe. Don't really know that much about VHL so I'm not going to rank them.

I know, I don't get it. I'd rank them with SEL or just barely below. Ranking them with DEL is just wrong.

I'd say Elitserien is clearly (well maybe not that clearly, but still) the better league of the two, but SM-Liiga would be better than the other European leagues, on par with the AHL.

Like:

NHL

KHL

Elitserien

SM-Liiga/AHL
(Only a small gap here)
NLA
The rest...

Lol at all northern Europeans ranking Czech Extraliga and Slovak Extraliga so low :laugh:.

Lol at all northern Europeans ranking Czech Extraliga and Slovak Extraliga so low :laugh:.

No disrespect but is the slovakian league really any good?

The Czech Extraliga deserves better credit than what they go so far in this thread though.

1. NHL
2. KHL
3. SEL
4. SM-LIGA/NLA/AHL
7. CZEECH EL/DEL

9. AUSTRIA/SLOVAK EXTRA LIGA/ Allsvenskan/VHL

13.ECHL/MESTIS/LNB(more stronger than french, dannish, Norwegian or italien league)

my respect to you ))

North American Bias guys...we all suffer from it. THis is the DEFINITIVE list:
1) NHL - Still the league with the best coaching, facilities, and above all, players.

2) KHL (Russia) - Since its inception in 2008, the KHL has been steadily gaining on the NHL for the title of Best League in the World. While it's still quite a ways off the overall caliber of the NHL, teams like St. Petersburg and Chelyabinsk could probably compete with NHL-level competition. However, in contrast with those caliber teams, teams like Yekaterinburg and Chekhov, who are 10, 15 points in last place, really detract from the overall calibre of the league.

3) SEL (Sweden) - The Elitserien is still the best singular nation league (All teams in one country). When people try to convince me the American Hockey League is better than the SEL, I simply tell them to look at the elite players in the NHL, and of those players, how many were nurtured in the AHL, and how many were developed in the Elitserien. Pretty sure the talent per player ratio is higher in SEL-developed players than AHL-developed players. Also has a lot of draft-and-follows as well as signable prospects (Jakob Silfverberg, Robert Rosén, Richard Gynge).

4) AHL (North America) - While I had qualms about putting the league ahead of a few European circuits, it is still seen as the premier development league in the world in the eyes of many North American scouts.

5) SM Liiga (Finland) - Finland's top flight is pretty much tied with Germany's but I gave the SM Liiga the leg up on zee Deutsche because of the success of Finland's national team as opposed to Germany's, as well as the reduced number of imports in the Finnish league (better homegrown, developed players) and the number of Finns in the NHL (30, as opposed to Germany's 9).

6) DEL (Germany) - Still a great league with a lot of talent, just not the same domestic development as Finland, Sweden or Russia. A lot of over-the-hill North Americans (or career minor leaguers for that matter) can still stand out in this league, whereas they can't make a team in the SEL or KHL (i.e. John Tripp).

7) Extraliga (Czech Rep.) - Lots of NHL talent floating around in this league, most of it old and over-the-hill Czech guys. Very few high-end talented imports in this league.

8) NLA (Switzerland) - I love this league to bits and I love watching the Spengler Cup (Who doesn't? :P) , but there just isn't a lot of high-end talent.

FULL LEAGUE LIST
1) NHL
2) KHL
3) Swedish
4) American
5) Finnish
6) German
7) Czech
8) Swiss
9) Slovak
10) Danish
11) English
12) Slovenian
13) Italian
14) French
15) Belgian
16) EVERYTHING ELSE (Portugal, Spain, Armenia, Iceland, etc...)

well ... hmm - interesting rankings

especialy NA friends - don't lie! and write us how many czech/slovak/german/austrian league matches have you ever seen?

well ... hmm - interesting rankings

especialy NA friends - don't lie! and write us how many czech/slovak/german/austrian league matches have you ever seen?

I never saw any actual games from those leagues...

North American Bias guys...we all suffer from it. THis is the DEFINITIVE list:
1) NHL - Still the league with the best coaching, facilities, and above all, players.

2) KHL (Russia) - Since its inception in 2008, the KHL has been steadily gaining on the NHL for the title of Best League in the World. While it's still quite a ways off the overall caliber of the NHL, teams like St. Petersburg and Chelyabinsk could probably compete with NHL-level competition. However, in contrast with those caliber teams, teams like Yekaterinburg and Chekhov, who are 10, 15 points in last place, really detract from the overall calibre of the league.

3) SEL (Sweden) - The Elitserien is still the best singular nation league (All teams in one country). When people try to convince me the American Hockey League is better than the SEL, I simply tell them to look at the elite players in the NHL, and of those players, how many were nurtured in the AHL, and how many were developed in the Elitserien. Pretty sure the talent per player ratio is higher in SEL-developed players than AHL-developed players. Also has a lot of draft-and-follows as well as signable prospects (Jakob Silfverberg, Robert Rosén, Richard Gynge).

4) AHL (North America) - While I had qualms about putting the league ahead of a few European circuits, it is still seen as the premier development league in the world in the eyes of many North American scouts.

5) SM Liiga (Finland) - Finland's top flight is pretty much tied with Germany's but I gave the SM Liiga the leg up on zee Deutsche because of the success of Finland's national team as opposed to Germany's, as well as the reduced number of imports in the Finnish league (better homegrown, developed players) and the number of Finns in the NHL (30, as opposed to Germany's 9).

6) DEL (Germany) - Still a great league with a lot of talent, just not the same domestic development as Finland, Sweden or Russia. A lot of over-the-hill North Americans (or career minor leaguers for that matter) can still stand out in this league, whereas they can't make a team in the SEL or KHL (i.e. John Tripp).

7) Extraliga (Czech Rep.) - Lots of NHL talent floating around in this league, most of it old and over-the-hill Czech guys. Very few high-end talented imports in this league.

8) NLA (Switzerland) - I love this league to bits and I love watching the Spengler Cup (Who doesn't? :P) , but there just isn't a lot of high-end talent.

FULL LEAGUE LIST
1) NHL
2) KHL
3) Swedish
4) American
5) Finnish
6) German
7) Czech
8) Swiss
9) Slovak
10) Danish
11) English
12) Slovenian
13) Italian
14) French
15) Belgian
16) EVERYTHING ELSE (Portugal, Spain, Armenia, Iceland, etc...)

I have not seen many games of most of these leagues, so I'll stick to the ones I have seen.

The Swiss League NLA is definitely better than the DEL, although the gap seems smaller than a few years ago, and I think the Czech league might be as well, but I am not sure, because I have never seen a game of this league.

One league you forgot ist the Austrain league which should be better at least than some of the leagues you have ranked 11th - 15th

North American Bias guys...we all suffer from it. THis is the DEFINITIVE list:
1) NHL - Still the league with the best coaching, facilities, and above all, players.

2) KHL (Russia) - Since its inception in 2008, the KHL has been steadily gaining on the NHL for the title of Best League in the World. While it's still quite a ways off the overall caliber of the NHL, teams like St. Petersburg and Chelyabinsk could probably compete with NHL-level competition. However, in contrast with those caliber teams, teams like Yekaterinburg and Chekhov, who are 10, 15 points in last place, really detract from the overall calibre of the league.

3) SEL (Sweden) - The Elitserien is still the best singular nation league (All teams in one country). When people try to convince me the American Hockey League is better than the SEL, I simply tell them to look at the elite players in the NHL, and of those players, how many were nurtured in the AHL, and how many were developed in the Elitserien. Pretty sure the talent per player ratio is higher in SEL-developed players than AHL-developed players. Also has a lot of draft-and-follows as well as signable prospects (Jakob Silfverberg, Robert Rosén, Richard Gynge).

4) AHL (North America) - While I had qualms about putting the league ahead of a few European circuits, it is still seen as the premier development league in the world in the eyes of many North American scouts.

5) SM Liiga (Finland) - Finland's top flight is pretty much tied with Germany's but I gave the SM Liiga the leg up on zee Deutsche because of the success of Finland's national team as opposed to Germany's, as well as the reduced number of imports in the Finnish league (better homegrown, developed players) and the number of Finns in the NHL (30, as opposed to Germany's 9).

6) DEL (Germany) - Still a great league with a lot of talent, just not the same domestic development as Finland, Sweden or Russia. A lot of over-the-hill North Americans (or career minor leaguers for that matter) can still stand out in this league, whereas they can't make a team in the SEL or KHL (i.e. John Tripp).

7) Extraliga (Czech Rep.) - Lots of NHL talent floating around in this league, most of it old and over-the-hill Czech guys. Very few high-end talented imports in this league.

8) NLA (Switzerland) - I love this league to bits and I love watching the Spengler Cup (Who doesn't? :P) , but there just isn't a lot of high-end talent.

FULL LEAGUE LIST
1) NHL
2) KHL
3) Swedish
4) American
5) Finnish
6) German
7) Czech
8) Swiss
9) Slovak
10) Danish
11) English
12) Slovenian
13) Italian
14) French
15) Belgian
16) EVERYTHING ELSE (Portugal, Spain, Armenia, Iceland, etc...)

you have by far the best hockey on the planet. no argument in that. but you should't be aloud to talk about europeen hockey. that is a ridiculous list.

portugal? c'mon man. there are no ice rink hockey to play portugal. :laugh:

full league list
1) nhl
2) khl
3) swedish
4) american
5) finnish
6) german
7) czech
8) swiss
9) slovak
10) danish
11) english
12) slovenian
13) italian
14) french
15) belgian
16) everything else (portugal, spain, armenia, iceland, etc...)

hahahahahahaha!!!

NHL
The rest

1. NHL
2. KHL
3. Elitserien
4. SM Liiga
5. AHL
6. NLA
7. DEL
8. Czech
9. Allsvenskan
10. Slovak
11. VHL
12. EBEL
13. Mestis
14. Belarus
15. OHL, QMJHL, WHL
16. MHL, USHL
17. ECHL
18. France
19. Denmark
20. England
21. Italy
22. Kazakhstan
23. Norway

you really think the italian league is that low eh?

I personally don't think the talent level in Elitserien is good enough to be put on a level above SM-Liiga, and I'd put AHL and maybe put NLA with them, too. Maybe if we include all the NHL prospects around, but most of them don't play significant roles in the league. It's the depth that makes Elitserien the second best league in Europe, not the top end talent.

NHL
KHL
Finnish SML/SEL
DEL/Swiss NLA
AHL
Czech extraliga /Allsvenskan
Slovak / Mestis
...
...
...
The list goes on.

I think the situation with Swedish Elitserien and the Finnish SM-Liiga has been quite even during the last few years. The top teams in Finland are slightly better than those in Sweden, but when you look at the whole league in general you can see that the teams in the Swedish league are much more even, while in Finland the worse teams can't really compete against the top teams.

Because of this I would say that the Elitserien is a little better than the SM-Liiga.

this is what I mean...

The second last team in the Elitserien this year was Djurgården, while in SM-Liiga it was HPK. I dare to say that Djurgården would easily be the winner of this match.

Then again top teams such as HIFK and Jokerit, maybe also Kalpa or Jyp could probably beat any team in the Elitserien. This is my opinion :nod:

The top teams are quite even in both leagues, with a slight advantage to the SM-Liiga, whereas the bottom teams are easily a lot stronger on the Swedish side.

*Yes I did consider the fact that Elitserien has 12 teams, while SM-Liiga has 14...

It's interesting how the Allsvenskan is so much better than the Finnish Mestis, when the Elite leagues don't show that great of a difference at all.

This probably tells us something about Finland as a Hockey country.:sarcasm:

It's interesting how the Allsvenskan is so much better than the Finnish Mestis, when the Elite leagues don't show that great of a difference at all.

This probably tells us something about Finland as a Hockey country.:sarcasm:

It got to have to do with the following things:

Better talent development a number of years in Sweden than in Finland, especially depthwise.
A lot more importplayers in Sweden than in Finland (which raises the quality).
Teams in Allsvenskan have good income from sponsors, audience and tv-contracts, Mestis clubs don't have the same kind of budget.
14 teams in SM-liiga vs 12 in Elitserien, Sm-liiga clubs have bigger roosters than Elitserie ones (leads to more quality players in the second tier)
Loads of players have reached Elitserien from Allsvenskan which makes it a much more attractive league to play in than Mestis (that don't export the same amounts to SM-liiga).

Sm-liiga was closed for a while which rally hurt Mestis I imagine.

BTW I don't think Allsvenskan is as good as Czech extraliga at all.

It got to have to do with the following things:

Better talent development a number of years in Sweden than in Finland, especially depthwise.
A lot more importplayers in Sweden than in Finland (which raises the quality).
Teams in Allsvenskan have good income from sponsors, audience and tv-contracts, Mestis clubs don't have the same kind of budget.
14 teams in SM-liiga vs 12 in Elitserien, Sm-liiga clubs have bigger roosters than Elitserie ones (leads to more quality players in the second tier)
Loads of players have reached Elitserien from Allsvenskan which makes it a much more attractive league to play in than Mestis (that don't export the same amounts to SM-liiga).

Sm-liiga was closed for a while which rally hurt Mestis I imagine.

BTW I don't think Allsvenskan is as good as Czech extraliga at all.

Bigger... roosters?

I imagine some of the Finnish players, especially the smaller ones, find the giant roosters somewhat intimidating and are much more tentative as a result. I'm sure this has a detrimental effect on the on-ice quality in the SM-Liiga.

1.NHL
2.KHL
3.SEL
4. SM-Liga/Czech ELH/AHL
5. Swiss NLA/DEL
6.Slovak ELH
7. EBEL
8. Italy/France
...

North American Bias guys...we all suffer from it. THis is the DEFINITIVE list:
1) NHL - Still the league with the best coaching, facilities, and above all, players.

2) KHL (Russia) - Since its inception in 2008, the KHL has been steadily gaining on the NHL for the title of Best League in the World. While it's still quite a ways off the overall caliber of the NHL, teams like St. Petersburg and Chelyabinsk could probably compete with NHL-level competition. However, in contrast with those caliber teams, teams like Yekaterinburg and Chekhov, who are 10, 15 points in last place, really detract from the overall calibre of the league.

3) SEL (Sweden) - The Elitserien is still the best singular nation league (All teams in one country). When people try to convince me the American Hockey League is better than the SEL, I simply tell them to look at the elite players in the NHL, and of those players, how many were nurtured in the AHL, and how many were developed in the Elitserien. Pretty sure the talent per player ratio is higher in SEL-developed players than AHL-developed players. Also has a lot of draft-and-follows as well as signable prospects (Jakob Silfverberg, Robert Rosén, Richard Gynge).

4) AHL (North America) - While I had qualms about putting the league ahead of a few European circuits, it is still seen as the premier development league in the world in the eyes of many North American scouts.

5) SM Liiga (Finland) - Finland's top flight is pretty much tied with Germany's but I gave the SM Liiga the leg up on zee Deutsche because of the success of Finland's national team as opposed to Germany's, as well as the reduced number of imports in the Finnish league (better homegrown, developed players) and the number of Finns in the NHL (30, as opposed to Germany's 9).

6) DEL (Germany) - Still a great league with a lot of talent, just not the same domestic development as Finland, Sweden or Russia. A lot of over-the-hill North Americans (or career minor leaguers for that matter) can still stand out in this league, whereas they can't make a team in the SEL or KHL (i.e. John Tripp).

7) Extraliga (Czech Rep.) - Lots of NHL talent floating around in this league, most of it old and over-the-hill Czech guys. Very few high-end talented imports in this league.

8) NLA (Switzerland) - I love this league to bits and I love watching the Spengler Cup (Who doesn't? :P) , but there just isn't a lot of high-end talent.

FULL LEAGUE LIST
1) NHL
2) KHL
3) Swedish
4) American
5) Finnish
6) German
7) Czech
8) Swiss
9) Slovak
10) Danish
11) English
12) Slovenian
13) Italian
14) French
15) Belgian
16) EVERYTHING ELSE (Portugal, Spain, Armenia, Iceland, etc...)

Norway?

Should the NCAA be considered?

I don't know what to think about Ncaa. There are som really good players there (just look at Broc Little tearing up allsvenskan) but I think, without having watched any games, just a couple of highlights, that as a whole it's below average.

I don't know what to think about Ncaa. There are som really good players there (just look at Broc Little tearing up allsvenskan) but I think, without having watched any games, just a couple of highlights, that as a whole it's below average.

its definetly higher level than canadian major junior

1. NHL
2. KHL
3. Elitserien
4. SM Liiga
5. AHL
6. NLA
7. DEL
8. Czech
9. Allsvenskan
10. Slovak
11. VHL
12. EBEL
13. Mestis
14. Belarus
15. OHL, QMJHL, WHL
16. MHL, USHL
17. ECHL
18. France
19. Denmark
20. England
21. Italy
22. Kazakhstan
23. Norway


No way should junior leagues be that high.

No way should junior leagues be that high.

agree.. especially over the italian league!