Anyone else Ref?

Douggy
11-15-2004, 04:29 PM
Does anyone else Ref??

What 'level' are you?

Where and what level do you officiate?

What is your record for penalty minutes in a game? ;)

Douggy
11-15-2004, 04:33 PM
I'm a level two official in Canada.

I mostly referee house league stuff... atom through bantam, although I sometimes do novice or the lines in a midget game.

My personal best is 42 penalty minutes in a game:
- 2 + a GM (10) for checking from behind.
- A GM (10) for dropping the f-bomb on me (after I'd allready given the genious 10 for swearing at me) :shakehead
- 10 more minor penalties... some of them of the "You get 4 and you get 2" Roughing after the whistle variety. :)

usmhuskies
11-15-2004, 07:36 PM
I was an off Ice offical for a Southern Maine vs Trinity game in which 66 penalties were called for a total off 350 some odd minutes which is still the record for a DIII ECAC game...It was fun :)

BCCHL inactive
11-16-2004, 06:03 AM
Hockey Canada
Level III
8th year wearing stripes; 20 years of age
Ref up to Midget AAA
Line up to Jr.A (BCHL)

I'm not sure of my exact record for PIMs in a game, but I have had a few over the years where a second game sheet was required.

Sixty Six
11-16-2004, 06:26 PM
i do the highschool roller hockey league in my area, i've new the reffing part, but its not too bad

Rattrick
11-23-2004, 11:37 AM
I ref all age groups in Orlando, FL but I ref roller. There are 3 rinks that we (myself and the other refs) ref at.

How much does everyone here get paid to ref?

Sixty Six
11-23-2004, 01:23 PM
for my roller games, i make 18 for varsity, and 15 for everything else

bleedgreen
11-23-2004, 01:59 PM
i ref ice and roller in colorado - level 2. you get 25 a game at an unsanctioned rink - anywhere from 30 - 40 for a usa rink (but you have to pay the scheduler). thats for ice. roller varies from anywhere from 10 - 20 per game. i make 20 for the high school games and advanced leagues, i get about 17 for tournament games ( i ref a travel tournament series), but there are so many in a weekend you can make 400-500 a weekend. overall, ive been reffing for about 10 years.
i do all age groups and levels in roller - but since im only a level 2 (shoulda got my certification years ago - didnt really need it - but now that i do ice more often the number holds me back even though im more experienced than a lot of three's i know) i cant get much work other than adult and youth rec right now. hopefully i can move up once im a three.
ive thrown out a lot of people in tourney roller games - it gets pretty heated. ive been part of a few games id guess were over 100 total - which is a lot for a roller game. any majors are automatic game misconducts so you dont get to run up the minutes on one guy who takes more than one major. ive also had to call roller games off before they ended because they were just all out brawls. ice hasnt been nearly as bad for me.

BCCHL inactive
11-24-2004, 04:28 AM
http://www.bchl.bc.ca/leagues/hockey_boxScores.cfm?clientID=1413&leagueID=2393&gameID=156898

If you want to seriously get into officiating, be prepared for games like this. :eek:

FLYLine24
11-26-2004, 12:37 AM
Level 3 Referee...3rd Year...already doing High School Varsity games and AAA Midget and Adult Leagues (and everything below: Mite((AKA Atom in Canada)-Bantam).

Im a referee in Westchester, NY and the pay is incredible.

Mite/Atom - $30 US
Squirt- 35
Peewee- 42
Bantam- 48
Midget - 55
Adult - 65
Modified (Middle/Junior High school league) -70
JV (9th-10th Graders League) - 78
Varsity - 85

I get about 5-7 games a week from Sept-June (With Fall leagues and Spring Leagues) So im rake in QUITE a bit of money while going to college. Ill be reffing at the Empire State Games this summer where the best of the best teams around NY compete but i have no idea the pay for that. Those games will use a 3-man system everything else is 2 man system.

Most PIM in a game i cant remember but ive sent 4 kids off for Match penalties in one period just last week.

Im 19 and I am pissed i didnt get into reffing sooner..i LOVE it...its a LOT of fun.

BTW to any other NY Refs.....How NICE was it that they got rid of that horrible rule to add a Misconduct to the High Sticking penalty last year? 12 minutes for a high sticking call was absurd. Thankfully that was a one year thing. :)

BCCHL inactive
11-26-2004, 01:11 AM
Im a referee in Westchester, NY and the pay is incredible.

Mite/Atom - $30 US
Squirt- 35
Peewee- 42
Bantam- 48
Midget - 55
Adult - 65
Modified (Middle/Junior High school league) -70
JV (9th-10th Graders League) - 78
Varsity - 85


My god. (The following is all Canadian Dollars)

BCHL: Referees get $80. Linesmen get $40. (Mileage is payed when applicable, but to only one official, and it goes to the farthest travelling official if there are two or three guys on the road.)

BCAHA Major Midget pays $60 for referees and $35 for linesmen.

Here is what we get in Prince George Minor Hockey...

Midget Rep
Ref: $25
Line: $18
2 Man: $30.50 each.

Bantam Rep / Midget House
Ref: $22
Line: $15
2 Man: $26 each.

Peewee Rep
Ref: $18
Line: $13
2 Man: $22 each.

Bantam House
Ref: $16
Line: $12
2 Man: $20 each:

Peewee House
Ref: $14
Line: $10
2 Man: $17 each.

Atom
Ref: $12
Line: $9
2 Man: $15 each.

Novice
Ref: $10
Line: $8
2 Man: $13 each.

DaveyCrockett
11-26-2004, 08:05 AM
I've just started lining for intra-murals at my university. I'm probably gonna get my level one and two within the next year or so and start actually reffing real games.

Prubab
11-26-2004, 12:19 PM
IM gonnna start soon................i hope

FLYLine24
12-18-2004, 10:24 AM
Well, Yesterdays game hit an all time record penalties me and my partner ended up calling.....35. It was a Bantam A game.....game started off fine...only 4 penalties were called in the 1st period..by 2nd half of the 2nd period the players were taking a lot of lazy or stupid penalites...interference and holding was a popular call. Between the 2nd and 3rd period the coach on one team kindly asked me over...I went to him he had some questions...my partner came over as well and we explained what he wanted to know..then out of nowhere..and i mean nowhere he saids "You Guys are calling a ****ing horrible game".....Unsportsmanlike Minor i give him...then he continues to curse at us saying that our organazation is ****ing crap.....we eject him....storms off the ice then leaves the door open as he gets off the rink (is he 10 or something?). 3rd period starts about 1 minutes into the period a I would say a 4"11 kid skating backwords and ducking pretty much as low as he can goes crashing into the puck carriers knees head on (ok butt on) and the kid flyes into the air and sustains an injury....Match Penalty which means ejection as well for that kid....fans start to yell stuff (I guess they though it was a legal hipcheck...:rolleyes: ). We TRY to let the kids play the game and do not call anything for a minute but the second we did that they tried to take advantage of that and they were commiting penalties every 30 seconds...so in order of not to loose control of the game we started calling everything....the kids just wouldnt understand that they were going to get called for everything they did and continued for the rest of the 3rd to take penalty after penalty. So luckily we didnt loose control of the game and it didnt turn into a brawl but..the cost was 35 total penalties called (dont forget there was a few bench minors, unsportmanlikes etc added onto original penalties). One team ended up with 19 calls so the coach will be suspended next game.

Accord
12-18-2004, 03:08 PM
I've done a couple of mite house league games, but that's pretty much it.

BCCHL inactive
12-18-2004, 03:36 PM
We TRY to let the kids play the game and do not call anything for a minute but the second we did that they tried to take advantage of that and they were commiting penalties every 30 seconds...so in order of not to loose control of the game we started calling everything....the kids just wouldnt understand that they were going to get called for everything they did and continued for the rest of the 3rd to take penalty after penalty.


I love this mentality. We let them play and we're losing control of the game, but when we call a lot of penalties, we're not letting them play.

I would say 1 player/coach for every 100 understands the concept of "feel for the game" and "game management".

Big Deaner
12-18-2004, 05:01 PM
Level 3 Referee...3rd Year...already doing High School Varsity games and AAA Midget and Adult Leagues (and everything below: Mite((AKA Atom in Canada)-Bantam).

Im a referee in Westchester, NY and the pay is incredible.

Mite/Atom - $30 US
Squirt- 35
Peewee- 42
Bantam- 48
Midget - 55
Adult - 65
Modified (Middle/Junior High school league) -70
JV (9th-10th Graders League) - 78
Varsity - 85

I get about 5-7 games a week from Sept-June (With Fall leagues and Spring Leagues) So im rake in QUITE a bit of money while going to college. Ill be reffing at the Empire State Games this summer where the best of the best teams around NY compete but i have no idea the pay for that. Those games will use a 3-man system everything else is 2 man system.

Most PIM in a game i cant remember but ive sent 4 kids off for Match penalties in one period just last week.

Im 19 and I am pissed i didnt get into reffing sooner..i LOVE it...its a LOT of fun.

BTW to any other NY Refs.....How NICE was it that they got rid of that horrible rule to add a Misconduct to the High Sticking penalty last year? 12 minutes for a high sticking call was absurd. Thankfully that was a one year thing. :)


Wow, the pay is incredible down there. It is about half that in Calgary. A guy could make a living off of reffing that hockey.

BCCHL inactive
12-19-2004, 02:16 AM
Wow, the pay is incredible down there. It is about half that in Calgary. A guy could make a living off of reffing that hockey.

The pay is horrible in all Hockey Canada sanctioned leagues.

I remember when the 2001 Air Canada Cup was here in PG. The referee got $15 and the linesmen got $7.50 each ....and of course all expenses paid if they had to travel. Still though...to take a week off work and that's all you get for a game fee? It's not worth it. I know at that level, we're not supposed to be in it for the money, but the same people who tell us that don't think about how we do make money, and if you reject such an offer as the National Midget Championship, it could ruin your potential career. The only officials who don't have full time jobs are the underage kids living at home, and no 16 year-old official is going to get an invitation to work a national championship.

Faaxinho
01-01-2005, 03:53 PM
It's my third season as a referee. I mostly ref 11-16 year-olders and I get paid about 20 euros per game.
Don't remember my record PIM, but I'd say it's somewhere close to 40.

Douggy
01-05-2005, 12:58 PM
http://www.bchl.bc.ca/leagues/hockey_boxScores.cfm?clientID=1413&leagueID=2393&gameID=156898

If you want to seriously get into officiating, be prepared for games like this. :eek:
Cripes. Do you have any trouble breaking up those fights?? IIRC, you're junior aged yourself.

Eitherway, good to see you're beyond your health problems and back doing what you love!

BCCHL inactive
01-05-2005, 03:42 PM
Cripes. Do you have any trouble breaking up those fights?? IIRC, you're junior aged yourself.

Eitherway, good to see you're beyond your health problems and back doing what you love!

There were only 3 fights, so it was fun in that aspect. After all, linesmen do have the best seat in the house. :)

Unfortunately, a certain league has prioritized officials being able to run a fast 2 miles over actually being capable of working the games, so I was told in a polite way that I'm too fat for this hockey and to come back next year in better shape. :mad:

(lone)Yashinfan#79
01-05-2005, 03:57 PM
it's peculiar, the ice league in which i am paid to ref 4 gms a night, players are relatively well behaved
(adult men's Platinum A and Gold A, B)


conversely, the ball league i play in (adult rec league where the refs are volunteer) has more tantrums, bickering and b.s. in one weekend than the entire ice league's SEASON...

only certification i have is USA hockey and that has to be renewed each year..

(lone)Yashinfan#79
01-05-2005, 04:01 PM
aside from supplemental income, reffing is also good because it keeps you in shape...

Keetz
01-05-2005, 08:10 PM
There were only 3 fights, so it was fun in that aspect. After all, linesmen do have the best seat in the house. :)

Unfortunately, a certain league has prioritized officials being able to run a fast 2 miles over actually being capable of working the games, so I was told in a polite way that I'm too fat for this hockey and to come back next year in better shape. :mad:
just curious how fast is a fast 2 miles

BCCHL inactive
01-05-2005, 09:36 PM
just curious how fast is a fast 2 miles

They want referees to do it in 14 minutes and linesmen to do it in 16 minutes. I am unfortunately hammered by genetics. Both my parents are large people, and that isn't exactly a benefit when it comes to doing something that requires top physical fitness.

I'm not saying I shouldn't have to be in great shape. I was upset because other officials in my area were kept on the schedule just because they had better fitness test marks than I did. All my game evaluations say that I am capable of handling games in this league. If it were late-season or playoffs, I could handle being cut for fitness...but you gotta get rid of the guys who aren't capable before anybody else.

Another thing that I don't like, is that all elite leagues want officials to be in just as good of physical shape as the players (which is great. I agree with that)...but they don't offer any kind of help, such as helping pay for a gym membership (they aren't cheap), nutritional handouts, etc. Players have everything handed to them by their teams, but the officials are expected to do it all on their own.

I've said this to my supervisors, but it has always fallen on deaf ears, so all I can do now is save a couple paycheques and spend $400 for a year at the YMCA and maybe even more money (that I don't necessarily have) on personal training sessions.. even just so I can get some education on stuff like calorie counting, what to eat, what to avoid, etc.

cycle_it
01-06-2005, 11:10 PM
... but i'd like to know if it hurts your feelings when the crowd boos you?
and if your feelings aren't hurt... what do you think of it?

BCCHL inactive
01-06-2005, 11:42 PM
... but i'd like to know if it hurts your feelings when the crowd boos you?
and if your feelings aren't hurt... what do you think of it?

God no. Getting booed is just part of the job. I could really care less if I get booed or not. I know I am trained to do my job, and the crowd is not.

cycle_it
01-07-2005, 09:13 PM
God no. Getting booed is just part of the job. I could really care less if I get booed or not. I know I am trained to do my job, and the crowd is not.


fair enough..
but what about when you make a bad call? ..it does happen de temps en temps.
no remorse or what?
i'm not trying to be an ass...i would really like to know.

BCCHL inactive
01-07-2005, 10:37 PM
fair enough..
but what about when you make a bad call? ..it does happen de temps en temps.
no remorse or what?
i'm not trying to be an ass...i would really like to know.

I take the, "my bad. sorry guys, I'll try not to let it happen again.", and life (or the game) goes on.

Best thing you can do after that is hope the players and coaches respect that.

FLYLine24
01-08-2005, 10:43 AM
... but i'd like to know if it hurts your feelings when the crowd boos you?
and if your feelings aren't hurt... what do you think of it?

When they boo I start ejecting fans left and right.......lol no im jking. When i first started it was annoying...but ive learned to completley tune out anything that is outside the rink including coaches.

The Major
01-10-2005, 02:17 AM
When they boo I start ejecting fans left and right.......lol no im jking. When i first started it was annoying...but ive learned to completley tune out anything that is outside the rink including coaches.

Agreed. All I hear is white noise, I dont really pay attention to the words.

Oh, by the way, I am a Level II w/ Hockey Canada, this is my 8th season wearing the stripes.

jacklours
01-10-2005, 09:34 AM
http://www.bchl.bc.ca/leagues/hockey_boxScores.cfm?clientID=1413&leagueID=2393&gameID=156898

If you want to seriously get into officiating, be prepared for games like this. :eek:

Why is there only one guy in the second period who got 5 for fighting, I doubt he started to punch in the air. When someone fights it's with someone, if not then aren't you supposed to give 5 minutes for ''coup de poing'' instead. Don't know the proper term in english, but it means hitting with your fist

jacklours
01-10-2005, 09:37 AM
Oh I forgot, I started refing when I was 14, did so for 4 years stopped for 2, now first winter back and i'm 20. I got my level 2 obviously, but next yeal i'll get my 3. I've already did many Bantam and Midget CC-BB as a linesman but i'll need my level 3 to be referee. That's pretty much the best hockey i've done.

FLYLine24
01-10-2005, 10:51 AM
Why is there only one guy in the second period who got 5 for fighting, I doubt he started to punch in the air. When someone fights it's with someone, if not then aren't you supposed to give 5 minutes for ''coup de poing'' instead. Don't know the proper term in english, but it means hitting with your fist


Maybe one guy starting punching another and the other guy didnt fight back and took the punches.

jacklours
01-12-2005, 07:27 PM
Maybe one guy starting punching another and the other guy didnt fight back and took the punches.

Then it doesn't count as a fight. Since there was none

BCCHL inactive
01-12-2005, 09:49 PM
Then it doesn't count as a fight. Since there was none

Rule 59(a) in the Hockey Canada rulebook states the following...

"A Major penalty and a Game Misconduct penalty shall be assessed any player who fights."

Nowhere in the 5 points of this rule, does it say that there must be two willing combatants in order for a Fighting penalty to be assessed. In fact, point 3 says this...

"Any player who does not retaliate after being struck will not be assessed a penalty under this section, but may be assessed a penalty for a violation of other rules."


As for my situation, it happened exactly as was assumed above. One player decided he wanted to fight, so he dropped his gloves and started punching the other player, who did not want any part of it.

Why is there only one guy in the second period who got 5 for fighting, I doubt he started to punch in the air. When someone fights it's with someone, if not then aren't you supposed to give 5 minutes for ''coup de poing'' instead. Don't know the proper term in english, but it means hitting with your fist

Rule 59(f), Note 2 says this...

"The Major penalty for roughing is not to be confused with and utilized in lieu of the Major Penalty and a Game Misconduct for fighting."

There is a such thing as a one-man fight. If you're officiating in Canada, whoever told you that there needs to be two willing combatants to have a fight is dead wrong.

FLYLine24
01-12-2005, 11:40 PM
Then it doesn't count as a fight. Since there was none

The penalty doesnt read: "A major for a fight" it reads "A major for fighting". One player can do the fighting while the other does not.


Also what Van said. ;)

Douggy
01-16-2005, 11:49 PM
... but i'd like to know if it hurts your feelings when the crowd boos you?
and if your feelings aren't hurt... what do you think of it?
Ironically, the times that the crowd has gotten the most pissed at me was when I was most certain I was right, and I was in perfect position. (I'm reffering to a no-goal call here)

It was like being booed and yelled at for getting an A+ on a test. I knew I was right, and I didn't really care what the crowd thought.

2112
02-21-2005, 12:29 AM
I have a question for the Hockey Canada refs here:

I'm interested in becoming a ref. I know the level system that is in place, but I was wondering first off, where / when / how can I get the level 1 certification?

Also how long would it take to get from level 1 to level 2? Would I have to be reffing 7 year old games for a year or so?

Any help would be great! Thanks.

BCCHL inactive
02-21-2005, 12:55 AM
I have a question for the Hockey Canada refs here:

I'm interested in becoming a ref. I know the level system that is in place, but I was wondering first off, where / when / how can I get the level 1 certification?

Also how long would it take to get from level 1 to level 2? Would I have to be reffing 7 year old games for a year or so?

Any help would be great! Thanks.


There are really no set rules for levels as far as age goes. I remember back when I started, every new official, regardless of age, wrote a Level I exam. Now it seems that at least here in BC, they have moved away from that. Anybody 16 or over is writing Level II, regardless of experience. A lot of us "senior" officials don't think it's a good idea, but that's another topic.

If you're young (in the 13-16 range), you will start out in the novice/atom divisions for a while. If you're older than that, you will probably start out doing peewee games for the most part. (Remember, I am basing this on how we do things here in Prince George.) The novice and atom games are usually reserved for the youngest referees.

The general guideline for levels in Canada based on age (again, at least here in BC), is that if you've over 16, you are going to write a Level II exam. To get Level III, you need your local RIC's recommendation, and Level IV and up are where you need to be at an elite level to even get consideration provincially.

To get your certification, contact your local minor hockey association. They will put you in contact with the local referee-in-chief. He will give you more information on clinic dates in your area. The next clinics, however, will not be until this coming fall.

Habsfan 32
02-21-2005, 05:11 PM
I tryed refing for a tournament and I realy hated it but I'll give it another try next year.

BCCHL inactive
02-21-2005, 09:59 PM
I tryed refing for a tournament and I realy hated it but I'll give it another try next year.

Why did you hate it? Any reason in particular?

2112
02-21-2005, 10:29 PM
There are really no set rules for levels as far as age goes. I remember back when I started, every new official, regardless of age, wrote a Level I exam. Now it seems that at least here in BC, they have moved away from that. Anybody 16 or over is writing Level II, regardless of experience. A lot of us "senior" officials don't think it's a good idea, but that's another topic.

If you're young (in the 13-16 range), you will start out in the novice/atom divisions for a while. If you're older than that, you will probably start out doing peewee games for the most part. (Remember, I am basing this on how we do things here in Prince George.) The novice and atom games are usually reserved for the youngest referees.



The general guideline for levels in Canada based on age (again, at least here in BC), is that if you've over 16, you are going to write a Level II exam. To get Level III, you need your local RIC's recommendation, and Level IV and up are where you need to be at an elite level to even get consideration provincially.

To get your certification, contact your local minor hockey association. They will put you in contact with the local referee-in-chief. He will give you more information on clinic dates in your area. The next clinics, however, will not be until this coming fall.


Thanks. I'm 18, so the age thing isn't really a problem. I've played hockey since I was 4...so if I study I should be able to pass the Level II test....and I don't care if I piss off the older refs :p: .

I'll ask around for a clinic in the fall..thanks for the info!

BCCHL inactive
02-23-2005, 12:04 AM
Thanks. I'm 18, so the age thing isn't really a problem. I've played hockey since I was 4...so if I study I should be able to pass the Level II test....and I don't care if I piss off the older refs :p: .


By saying, "senior official", I don't mean by age, but by experience. I'm only 20, but I have 8 years under my belt, which makes me the senior guy over anybody with less experience, regardless of age.

The reason most of us don't think first-year officials should be able to write a Level II (speaking for myself mostly), is because it causes potential assigning problems. We have a few guys around 20-23 years old who are first-year officials, but assignors don't get that information. They get age and level. For so many years, seeing that an official is in his late teens or early 20s with a Level II meant that he is capable of at least a decent level of hockey. Unfortunately earlier this season, there were a couple rookies of that age with Level II certification who were assigned to Midget house, and probably weren't capable of being on the ice for a peewee house game.

Injektilo
02-25-2005, 12:45 PM
i'm thinking i might like to start reffing some kids games next season, just really little kids like 6, 7, 8, years old so that there's not alot of presure. What kind of cerification is required for that?
First I'm gonna look into being an assistant coach on some such team though.

And that BCHL game, the one team scored 8 goals in 7 minutes... *keanu reeves type "whoah"*.

QQQ
03-13-2005, 10:27 AM
If you did not take the team, coaches and fans into consideration do you enjoy reffing in some rinks more than others?

QQQ
03-13-2005, 10:36 AM
The reason I ask is that as a fan I know I enjoy going to some rinks and then there are others that are just ice and a necessary pain to go to. The look, or acoustics or the flow when you enter and walk around all impact on how I view the entire experience. The Centrium in Red Deer for example is attractive from the outside and parking is decent but when you walk around the concession lineups block traffic, people clog up etc. Feel like I'm at the Chinese night market in Richmond and have to use elbows to get thru.

Schlep Rock
03-13-2005, 07:49 PM
I was recently at a high school game in Rhode Island which saw one kid receive five, count 'em, five penalties for either roughing, elbowing, high sticking, or unsportsmanlike conduct (mixed bag).

The opposing fans were silent as this kid was running around attacking players while the other teams fans (and players, and coaches) were furious. One fan yelled to the officials, "you're missing a good game and somebody is going to get killed" which led to the ref turning and laughing.

Needless to say the opposing team lost and the following day it was reported the student was suspended from school for 10-days (maximum in RI) for his conduct and the two referees have been suspended for the remainder of the playoffs.

No reason that junk should've went on but sadly, it did. A bad call, ok, it happens. But to allow this kid to remain in the game? Ah yes, to add... one concussion (mild) and one player with breathing problems after taking an elbow to the throat (didn't return to game but was fine after).

BCCHL inactive
03-13-2005, 09:34 PM
I was recently at a high school game in Rhode Island which saw one kid receive five, count 'em, five penalties for either roughing, elbowing, high sticking, or unsportsmanlike conduct (mixed bag).

The opposing fans were silent as this kid was running around attacking players while the other teams fans (and players, and coaches) were furious. One fan yelled to the officials, "you're missing a good game and somebody is going to get killed" which led to the ref turning and laughing.

Needless to say the opposing team lost and the following day it was reported the student was suspended from school for 10-days (maximum in RI) for his conduct and the two referees have been suspended for the remainder of the playoffs.

No reason that junk should've went on but sadly, it did. A bad call, ok, it happens. But to allow this kid to remain in the game? Ah yes, to add... one concussion (mild) and one player with breathing problems after taking an elbow to the throat (didn't return to game but was fine after).

The player had penalties assessed to him. I don't see why the referees got suspended (why in the hell would that be released to the media anyway?). They called the penalties, did they not? Hell, suspending the player from school for what happens during a game is asinine in itself.

If some fan yelled something like that at me, I'd probably laugh too.

FLYLine24
03-13-2005, 11:00 PM
I was recently at a high school game in Rhode Island which saw one kid receive five, count 'em, five penalties for either roughing, elbowing, high sticking, or unsportsmanlike conduct (mixed bag).

The opposing fans were silent as this kid was running around attacking players while the other teams fans (and players, and coaches) were furious. One fan yelled to the officials, "you're missing a good game and somebody is going to get killed" which led to the ref turning and laughing.

Needless to say the opposing team lost and the following day it was reported the student was suspended from school for 10-days (maximum in RI) for his conduct and the two referees have been suspended for the remainder of the playoffs.

No reason that junk should've went on but sadly, it did. A bad call, ok, it happens. But to allow this kid to remain in the game? Ah yes, to add... one concussion (mild) and one player with breathing problems after taking an elbow to the throat (didn't return to game but was fine after).

Why would the refs get suspended?? :dunno: You said they made the calls.

Schlep Rock
03-14-2005, 09:56 AM
Why would the refs get suspended?? :dunno: You said they made the calls.

The ref's continually gave him 2 minute minors, the league felt they should've thrown the player out and the refs knew they should've.

Schlep Rock
03-14-2005, 10:00 AM
The player had penalties assessed to him. I don't see why the referees got suspended (why in the hell would that be released to the media anyway?). They called the penalties, did they not? Hell, suspending the player from school for what happens during a game is asinine in itself.

If some fan yelled something like that at me, I'd probably laugh too.

Van,

Figured you'd be defending the refs here... it wasn't released to the "media", it was released to certain people who leaked it. They called two minute minors, no warnings. This kid injured two players, taunted the bench, and they were down 5-1. He should've been tossed.

Being suspended for something that happened during a game? Of course... you are there representing your school. In Rhode Island players have been suspended for starting fights on the football field, for swearing at principals at games, etc. It's not like it was a junior game, its a high school game.

WhoozYerrDaddy
03-14-2005, 10:19 AM
One fan yelled to the officials, "you're missing a good game"


Last time a coach said that to me, I said back to him.....

"I know...Too bad it's on the other rink, and I got assigned to this mess."

Even the upset coach had to laugh at that. Calmed him down a bit.

I am not sure whether high school in RI plays NCAA or USA Hockey rules, but USA Hockey specifically states that if a player is assessed five penalties in a game, he is assessed a game misconduct.

Maybe that's why the officials were suspended. They didn't game the player after his fifth penalty. Just a guess.

Daddy

Schlep Rock
03-14-2005, 10:31 AM
Last time a coach said that to me, I said back to him.....

"I know...Too bad it's on the other rink, and I got assigned to this mess."

Even the upset coach had to laugh at that. Calmed him down a bit.

I am not sure whether high school in RI plays NCAA or USA Hockey rules, but USA Hockey specifically states that if a player is assessed five penalties in a game, he is assessed a game misconduct.

Maybe that's why the officials were suspended. They didn't game the player after his fifth penalty. Just a guess.

Daddy

LOL... good comeback on that one.

I believe they play by USA Hockey rules which would make sense. Even if the kid only had 3 penalties, the nature of them they should've tossed him. His only purpose out there was to injure kids.

usmhuskies
03-14-2005, 04:05 PM
LOL... good comeback on that one.

I believe they play by USA Hockey rules which would make sense. Even if the kid only had 3 penalties, the nature of them they should've tossed him. His only purpose out there was to injure kids.


Well once he got his 5th penalty he should have been tossed...5 penalties and you are out(Game Misconduct) with USA and High School hockey rules...

WhoozYerrDaddy
03-14-2005, 05:19 PM
I believe that is what I said...five penalties = game misconduct.(USA Hockey)

High schools in this area use NCAA rules, so they do not have the five and out rule. You can still find a way to get him out of the game if you really want to.

Plus, if the coach is worth anything, he will see what is going on, and bench the idiot. If he doesn't, he is almost as guilty as the player.

Daddy

BCCHL inactive
03-14-2005, 09:35 PM
Van,

Figured you'd be defending the refs here... it wasn't released to the "media", it was released to certain people who leaked it. They called two minute minors, no warnings. This kid injured two players, taunted the bench, and they were down 5-1. He should've been tossed.

He may have hurt two players, but it's not always obvious to the officials that players are injured. I've had situations where I've assessed minors, and the player left the game after the fact (and had the nerve to whine about the minor not being a major), and I've had the opposite where I've tossed players for fouls that didn't see the other player leave.

It's all a matter of judgment. If any league suspended me because they simply disagreed with my penalty selection, I'd quit.

If they failed to enforce an automatic rule (5 penalties = Game Misconduct), then the suspension is justified. That would be like me assessing a Major penalty (for anything) and not the automatic Game Misconduct (under HC rules).

Being suspended for something that happened during a game? Of course... you are there representing your school. In Rhode Island players have been suspended for starting fights on the football field, for swearing at principals at games, etc. It's not like it was a junior game, its a high school game.

Swearing at school officials is one thing, but suspended from school for game action is crap. We had a high school tournament here last year, and the school officials wanted us to report any profanity we heard on the ice. They wanted to suspend players from school for one f-bomb, no matter what the intention of the word. Do you think any of the officials abided by that? Obviously most of these school officials have no idea how hockey is played...and what is even more ironic, is that the next week in an adult rec game, I ended up gassing one of those high school teachers for calling me a f'ing c***su**er.

FLYLine24
03-14-2005, 10:12 PM
The ref's continually gave him 2 minute minors, the league felt they should've thrown the player out and the refs knew they should've.

Ah alright...thats what i figured....though i still disagree with the suspending of them. Just because there opinion of what the kid didnt match the opinion of the supervisor watching the game doesnt mean they should be suspended. If that was the case I feel VERY bad for the refs in that organization if thats what they have to worry about while the ref. Horrible organization.

Schlep Rock
03-14-2005, 10:21 PM
He may have hurt two players, but it's not always obvious to the officials that players are injured. I've had situations where I've assessed minors, and the player left the game after the fact (and had the nerve to whine about the minor not being a major), and I've had the opposite where I've tossed players for fouls that didn't see the other player leave.

It's all a matter of judgment. If any league suspended me because they simply disagreed with my penalty selection, I'd quit.

If they failed to enforce an automatic rule (5 penalties = Game Misconduct), then the suspension is justified. That would be like me assessing a Major penalty (for anything) and not the automatic Game Misconduct (under HC rules).



Swearing at school officials is one thing, but suspended from school for game action is crap. We had a high school tournament here last year, and the school officials wanted us to report any profanity we heard on the ice. They wanted to suspend players from school for one f-bomb, no matter what the intention of the word. Do you think any of the officials abided by that? Obviously most of these school officials have no idea how hockey is played...and what is even more ironic, is that the next week in an adult rec game, I ended up gassing one of those high school teachers for calling me a f'ing c***su**er.

Swearing on the ice is fine and nobody was getting in trouble for that. But injuring players? When told to calm down by the police in the stands the player laughed.

Not obvious? Paramedics came on the ice for one kid because he was so woozy, the other just sat on the back bench the rest of the game so maybe not as obvious.

Let me guess, you think that Bertuzzi and McSorley shouldn't be charged because "that's the game"?

In speaking with a league official tonight at a game he compared the ugliness of the game I am speaking to... "if a cop pulls somebody over for speeding then let's him go only to pull the same car over for speeding 5 miles down the road and have it keep happening with only warnings being given" To the kid, 2 minutes in the box was nothing, he should've been tossed and come to find out the officials haven't just been suspended, they've been banned and according to this league official they have said they won't appeal the decision.

I'm sorry but if you let a kid stay in the game for throwing elbows, high sticks, etc. over and over and over again especially with the game clearly in the bag, I'd have to question your worth as a ref. I've seen pro refs toss players with 5-10 minutes left in a game that was wrapped up just to keep the peace.

Now tonight, two players were rushed to the hospital with serious knee injuries, neither the result of a play but it took a cop to run on the ice to stop a play because the ref would not blow the whistle even after he saw the kid (approximately 30-45 seconds the kid was on the ice). Without exaggeration the police officer swung one of the doors open and ran over to the kid finally forcing the officials to blow the whistle.

Needless to say, I was told by the league official there will be a complete overhaul of the officiting in RI as it has gotten atrocious.

Schlep Rock
03-14-2005, 10:24 PM
Ah alright...thats what i figured....though i still disagree with the suspending of them. Just because there opinion of what the kid didnt match the opinion of the supervisor watching the game doesnt mean they should be suspended. If that was the case I feel VERY bad for the refs in that organization if thats what they have to worry about while the ref. Horrible organization.

That "organization" is the Rhode Island Interscholastic league. The same league that has produced Bryan Berard, Brian Boucher, David Emma (former Hobey Baker winner), Garth Snow, and others.

There was no supervisor at the game, the tape was sent in by the coach and they judged it was clearly obvious the player was intending to injure players and he should've been removed.

And out of curiosity... what makes the ref's opinion so much more valuable then that of an executive within the league? While they're the ones in the "line of fire" they need to take responsibility for their calls. A missed call, a bad call... it happens, refs are human but so "miss" this kid trying to injure players? You've got to be deaf, dumb, AND blind to miss it and if you allow it to happen you should not be an official.

BCCHL inactive
03-15-2005, 02:07 AM
Swearing on the ice is fine and nobody was getting in trouble for that. But injuring players? When told to calm down by the police in the stands the player laughed.

What was the police doing there anyway? Are games in Rhode Island always that out of control?


Let me guess, you think that Bertuzzi and McSorley shouldn't be charged because "that's the game"?

I resent the mockery, but yes, I do think that McSorley and Bertuzzi should have not been charged. I think the only NHL player who ever supported either of those charges is Steve Moore.


To the kid, 2 minutes in the box was nothing, he should've been tossed and come to find out the officials haven't just been suspended, they've been banned and according to this league official they have said they won't appeal the decision.

I don't think I would appeal either. If an association treats its officials like that, I'd be more than happy to never work another game for them. Where is the local officials association to back their guys up?

I find it sad that the officials were held responsible when they gave him penalties. Has the coach of this player been reprimanded in any way for giving him all that ice time, knowing what he was doing? As far as I see it, the coach is just as responsible as the player.


I'm sorry but if you let a kid stay in the game for throwing elbows, high sticks, etc. over and over and over again especially with the game clearly in the bag, I'd have to question your worth as a ref.

It depends on how I judge the severity to be. At most, if I don't think he's trying to injure the opponents, I might have given a 10-minute Misconduct basically for being a dumbass.

I've seen pro refs toss players with 5-10 minutes left in a game that was wrapped up just to keep the peace.

Key words: "Pro refs". These officials in a Rhode Island high school league are not professionals. To expect that kind of standard of officiating at that level is asinine.


Now tonight, two players were rushed to the hospital with serious knee injuries, neither the result of a play but it took a cop to run on the ice to stop a play because the ref would not blow the whistle even after he saw the kid (approximately 30-45 seconds the kid was on the ice). Without exaggeration the police officer swung one of the doors open and ran over to the kid finally forcing the officials to blow the whistle.

Again, what are the cops doing there? I admit my lack of familiarity with the USA Hockey rulebook, but up here, unless I think the player is in serious physical danger, I have to wait until his team gets possession of the puck until I whistle play dead.


Needless to say, I was told by the league official there will be a complete overhaul of the officiting in RI as it has gotten atrocious.

I think that instead of expecting professional standards for a high school league, and suspending officials when they don't assess a Game Misconduct that a league official thinks should have been assessed, how about having supervisors help train these officials? Instead of suspending them, tell them what you think they did wrong, and they will learn from that.



And out of curiosity... what makes the ref's opinion so much more valuable then that of an executive within the league? While they're the ones in the "line of fire" they need to take responsibility for their calls.

I don't know about down there, but up here, not many league executives have any officiating experience. That's why so many of their decisions on supplementary discipline is based on the word of the referees. They actually give us that respect up here. They wouldn't watch a video, disagree with what we did and ban us from the association. They would ask us our version of what happened and why we called what we did. Unless a referee is intentionally creating havoc (like telling a team to ******* off before a game ...we had a guy like that who got canned almost immediately), they would never ban us. They would give us more experience at a lower level until we're ready to make the next step.

In shorter terms, leagues and associations up here respect their officials and their associations. From what I hear about this RI high school league, they don't.


A missed call, a bad call... it happens, refs are human but so "miss" this kid trying to injure players? You've got to be deaf, dumb, AND blind to miss it and if you allow it to happen you should not be an official.

I don't know how many games you've officiated, but it's not the easiest thing in the world to determine something like that, unless he's kicking an opponent or slashing them a-la Marty McSorley.

Do you think you could do a better job than these officials? If so, why not convince this league official you talk to to put you on the ice?

Schlep Rock
03-15-2005, 08:42 AM
What was the police doing there anyway? Are games in Rhode Island always that out of control?

I resent the mockery, but yes, I do think that McSorley and Bertuzzi should have not been charged. I think the only NHL player who ever supported either of those charges is Steve Moore.

I don't think I would appeal either. If an association treats its officials like that, I'd be more than happy to never work another game for them. Where is the local officials association to back their guys up?

I find it sad that the officials were held responsible when they gave him penalties. Has the coach of this player been reprimanded in any way for giving him all that ice time, knowing what he was doing? As far as I see it, the coach is just as responsible as the player.

It depends on how I judge the severity to be. At most, if I don't think he's trying to injure the opponents, I might have given a 10-minute Misconduct basically for being a dumbass.

Key words: "Pro refs". These officials in a Rhode Island high school league are not professionals. To expect that kind of standard of officiating at that level is asinine.

Again, what are the cops doing there? I admit my lack of familiarity with the USA Hockey rulebook, but up here, unless I think the player is in serious physical danger, I have to wait until his team gets possession of the puck until I whistle play dead.

I think that instead of expecting professional standards for a high school league, and suspending officials when they don't assess a Game Misconduct that a league official thinks should have been assessed, how about having supervisors help train these officials? Instead of suspending them, tell them what you think they did wrong, and they will learn from that.

I don't know about down there, but up here, not many league executives have any officiating experience. That's why so many of their decisions on supplementary discipline is based on the word of the referees. They actually give us that respect up here. They wouldn't watch a video, disagree with what we did and ban us from the association. They would ask us our version of what happened and why we called what we did. Unless a referee is intentionally creating havoc (like telling a team to ******* off before a game ...we had a guy like that who got canned almost immediately), they would never ban us. They would give us more experience at a lower level until we're ready to make the next step.

In shorter terms, leagues and associations up here respect their officials and their associations. From what I hear about this RI high school league, they don't.

I don't know how many games you've officiated, but it's not the easiest thing in the world to determine something like that, unless he's kicking an opponent or slashing them a-la Marty McSorley.

Do you think you could do a better job than these officials? If so, why not convince this league official you talk to to put you on the ice?

Any gathering of over 150 people in RI requires a police officer and an additional cop for every 250 people after the original 150. Now since the Station Night Club fire, a fire marshall is required on hand. New policy this year, a team of two paramedics is required at the rink during the game (thank god since two kids went last night).

To my knowledge all the coach for the opposing team has done is call the other coach to apologize for his players actions. These guys make $2,500/year to coach high school hockey (unless it's a private school), the only recourse they'd have against the coach is to fire him.

Van, you're going to have to take my word that this kid's elbows were clearly obvious. His cross checks were obvious. The ref's were watching him, they tossed their arms up immediately but WHY they didn't throw him out is beyond me (and apparently everybody).

The Rhode Island Interscholastic League has some pull, if they ban the refs which apparently is a done deal, no other association in the state will hire them. In speaking with the coach he has told me they've had several issues in recent years with that set of officials and has constantly complained about them. Maybe they had their "final warning" prior to the game and that was it for them.

As far as "experience at another level"... this is the RIIL, they govern just high schools, there's no sending them down to bantams, midgets, etc. like there might be in a regular association.

I (nor anybody) am not expecting pro standards, I simply pointed it out because I figured somebody would come back and say it's stupid to say a kid should be thrown out just because the game is "over". It's not, the kid had 5 penalties so he should've been tossed anyway but with nothing on the line anymore the ref's job should be 100% safety of everybody on the ice and it wasn't.

And as far as out of control RI High School games... to put it into perspective... the series that this horrendous officiating occured, upon exiting the arena, you were met by around 8 or 9 police officers with more inside directing people out seperate exits.

Van, as an official it's tough for you to provide an objective opinion on this one. If an official is keeping an eye on a kid and the kid constantly committs infractions, excuse me, GROSS infractions, you toss him or give him a 10-minute misconduct.

Heck... one of the kid's from the team advanced (my old high school) was given a 10-minute penalty last night because he knocked the opposing goalie out after he came out to around the blue line to send the puck back. The goalie was a punk, two straight games he called the refs over to call the police over to tell the students to stop taunting.

Schlep Rock
03-15-2005, 08:44 AM
Just to add as far as the cops being there... I'd say around 800-1,000 people there last night and there were 5 cops there.

Tonight the arena will be standing room only as it's the deciding game.

BCCHL inactive
03-15-2005, 11:39 AM
Van, you're going to have to take my word that this kid's elbows were clearly obvious. His cross checks were obvious. The ref's were watching him, they tossed their arms up immediately but WHY they didn't throw him out is beyond me (and apparently everybody).

Most penalties that are called are obvious infractions. Just because they're obvious of blatant doesn't mean they always warrant misconducts along with them.


As far as "experience at another level"... this is the RIIL, they govern just high schools, there's no sending them down to bantams, midgets, etc. like there might be in a regular association.

The officials are registered with USA Hockey (from what I read here), which means they have to be registered with a local association. Somebody is providing the officials. It's like Jr.A in Canada....the officials are not officials for the leagues, they are officials provided by the provincial branches (IE: BCHL officials are provided by BCAHA).

Schlep Rock
03-15-2005, 03:16 PM
The officials are registered with USA Hockey (from what I read here), which means they have to be registered with a local association. Somebody is providing the officials. It's like Jr.A in Canada....the officials are not officials for the leagues, they are officials provided by the provincial branches (IE: BCHL officials are provided by BCAHA).

Actually, they are registered with the RIIL and they are RIIL officials. The RIIL like I said is a big show and they have their own officials... the Rhode Island Amateur league has their own officials who are not RIIL officials.

WhoozYerrDaddy
03-15-2005, 08:34 PM
Actually, they are registered with the RIIL and they are RIIL officials. The RIIL like I said is a big show and they have their own officials... the Rhode Island Amateur league has their own officials who are not RIIL officials.

Not sure where to start with all this. Sounds like the RIIL may be a local chapter of National Ice Hockey Officials Association (NIHOA). They don't have have bantam or midgets to send their officials 'down' to. They do just just HS and college hockey and use the NCAA rulebook. They are supposedly the more experienced officials, working their way up through the USA Hockey ranks until the higher-ups in the local chapter of NIHOA decide that they are good enough (or kiss enough butt) to get in.

That would explain them being suspended. They pissed off the higher-ups in their local chapter, or they pissed off the league executives, or both.

Local politics at its best. It gets to the point where you are more worried about making the poliitically correct call, instead of the rulebook correct call. I have been there, done that...and it isn't fun.

USA Hockey officials and NIHOA officials are two distinct, separate organizations. You can belong to one or the other, or both. In this local area, NIHOA generally covers high school, D-1 and D-3 college, using the NCAA rulebook. USA Hockey officials work all amatuer hockey up to and including midgets (16 yr old), and uses the USA Hockey rulebook, obviously.

Question to Schlep Rock -- Are there two officials on the ice or three??? Do the on-ice officials wear the USA Hockey crest on their sweater, or the NIHOA crest??


Daddy

Schlep Rock
03-15-2005, 09:34 PM
Question to Schlep Rock -- Are there two officials on the ice or three??? Do the on-ice officials wear the USA Hockey crest on their sweater, or the NIHOA crest??


Daddy

Two.

Come to think of it above their number it says NIHOA.

FLYLine24
03-15-2005, 10:13 PM
Two.

Come to think of it above their number it says NIHOA.

If they are in NIHOA then they arent just a "High School Referee Organization" like you said in a previous post. NIHOA does all youth hockey...cept most likely rec leagues they dont do(most rinks hire there own refs for that). Travel teams, tornments, Modified, JV, Varsity they do.

I am apart of NIHOA(WIHOA..WestchesterIHOA) and our R.I.C. would never suspend a referee...give the referee lower level games yes but not suspend. Dont know what type of clowns they got running the show over there.

And yes..if they are wearing there NIHOA crests then it is NCAA rules(or possibly Federation Rules)..not USA rules.

BCCHL inactive
03-15-2005, 11:42 PM
Check this out, from the BCHL website...

I have always wondered just how difficult a task it must be for an on- ice official during a hockey game.

Officiating has got to be one of the most difficult responsibilities an individual can take on. Officials are a target for verbal abuse by those who deem themselves competent. Psychologically this must be a stressful position; an arena full of knowledgeable hockey fans sitting in their seats (presumably holding a copy of the officiating rules) and evaluating every move and call the refs make.

It has been more than once that I have said to a few people (who seem to be expert on the subject of officiating) that they should go to a referee clinic. The instructors would be more than willing to assist anyone who wants to put on the stripes and give them all the training available. The position includes: low pay, your decisions questioned at a momentıs notice and, in more cases than not, disrespect shown for your inability to make the ³ proper ³ call. And Lord help you donıt ever be late or not show for a game.

That is a cardinal sin. Oh yes, and may I ask you one question? When was the last time that you showed up for work and everyone gave you a rousing boo of disapproval upon your entrance? Well, that comes with the package too. My theory on the subject is this: when an official skates on to the ice, greet him with a rousing cheer (a psychological employment that will give him a welcoming feeling to his surroundings).

Rest of article here: http://www.bchl.bc.ca/leagues/newsletter.cfm?leagueID=2393&clientID=1413&page=7335

Schlep Rock
03-16-2005, 08:43 AM
If they are in NIHOA then they arent just a "High School Referee Organization" like you said in a previous post. NIHOA does all youth hockey...cept most likely rec leagues they dont do(most rinks hire there own refs for that). Travel teams, tornments, Modified, JV, Varsity they do.

I am apart of NIHOA(WIHOA..WestchesterIHOA) and our R.I.C. would never suspend a referee...give the referee lower level games yes but not suspend. Dont know what type of clowns they got running the show over there.

And yes..if they are wearing there NIHOA crests then it is NCAA rules(or possibly Federation Rules)..not USA rules.

Well I can tell you these officials only did high school games. Maybe they refused other assignments, I don't know but they only did high school. We'll see where they go from here.

Schlep Rock
03-16-2005, 08:45 AM
Check this out, from the BCHL website...

I have always wondered just how difficult a task it must be for an on- ice official during a hockey game.

Officiating has got to be one of the most difficult responsibilities an individual can take on. Officials are a target for verbal abuse by those who deem themselves competent. Psychologically this must be a stressful position; an arena full of knowledgeable hockey fans sitting in their seats (presumably holding a copy of the officiating rules) and evaluating every move and call the refs make.

It has been more than once that I have said to a few people (who seem to be expert on the subject of officiating) that they should go to a referee clinic. The instructors would be more than willing to assist anyone who wants to put on the stripes and give them all the training available. The position includes: low pay, your decisions questioned at a momentıs notice and, in more cases than not, disrespect shown for your inability to make the ³ proper ³ call. And Lord help you donıt ever be late or not show for a game.

That is a cardinal sin. Oh yes, and may I ask you one question? When was the last time that you showed up for work and everyone gave you a rousing boo of disapproval upon your entrance? Well, that comes with the package too. My theory on the subject is this: when an official skates on to the ice, greet him with a rousing cheer (a psychological employment that will give him a welcoming feeling to his surroundings).

Rest of article here: http://www.bchl.bc.ca/leagues/newsletter.cfm?leagueID=2393&clientID=1413&page=7335

Van,

As I said... you can't provide an objective viewpoint here.

And I'm sorry but I have to laugh, "Officiating has got to be one of the most difficult responsibilities an individual can take on" It sounds like we're talking about those in the armed services now!

I respect ref's and what they do is hard but one of the most difficult responsibilities an individual can take on??

Isles72
03-16-2005, 09:08 AM
When I was slightly younger(late 20's) I almost gave it a whirl .

if you love the game , its an excellent way to supplament your income without it seeming like actual ''work''

you guys mentioned how much $$ you make reffing .

how much do time keepers /public announcer make ?

my bad back would prevent me from reffing , but doing some time -keeping /stats etc..would interest me

WhoozYerrDaddy
03-16-2005, 10:27 AM
NIHOA does all youth hockey...cept most likely rec leagues they dont do(most rinks hire there own refs for that). Travel teams, tornments, Modified, JV, Varsity they do.

I am apart of NIHOA(WIHOA..WestchesterIHOA) and our R.I.C. would never suspend a referee...give the referee lower level games yes but not suspend. Dont know what type of clowns they got running the show over there.

And yes..if they are wearing there NIHOA crests then it is NCAA rules(or possibly Federation Rules)..not USA rules.

You are contradicting yourself here. Just about all, if not all youth hockey in the US plays USA Hockey rules. If the kids in your area play NCAA rules, then they are in the vast minority. Not to mention that they aren't registered with USA Hockey, are not covered by USA Hockey insurance, and are not eligible to compete in, or host state and national youth championship tournaments. I would be VERY surprised that the kids in your area are playing NCAA rules, but I suppose it isn't impossible.

By the way, NCAA stands for National Collegiate Athletic Association.

An easy way to tell....You are officiating a pee wee travel game (12 year olds). Are you using the immediate offsides rule, or are you playing the tag-up rule?? The answer you give determines whether the kids are playing USA or NCAA. When you officate pee wees, are you wearing your USA crest or your NIHOA crest??

I would be willing to bet that your answers will be 'immediate off-sides'...and 'USA Hockey crest'.

Not trying to cause problems here, just trying to clarify a few things.

Daddy

Schlep Rock
03-16-2005, 01:41 PM
The Rhode Island Interscholastic league (high schools) allow the players to tag-up while last midget game I saw they didn't allow them to.

WhoozYerrDaddy
03-16-2005, 01:52 PM
The Rhode Island Interscholastic league (high schools) allow the players to tag-up

OK -- RIIL = NIHOA = high schools

while last midget game I saw they didn't allow them to.

and -- midget game = immediate offsides =USA Hockey

As I thought ..

Daddy

BCCHL inactive
03-16-2005, 03:12 PM
Van,

As I said... you can't provide an objective viewpoint here.

And I'm sorry but I have to laugh, "Officiating has got to be one of the most difficult responsibilities an individual can take on" It sounds like we're talking about those in the armed services now!

I respect ref's and what they do is hard but one of the most difficult responsibilities an individual can take on??

That wasn't my point of view. That was the point of view of the Alberni Valley Bulldogs (BCHL) announcer.

Have you tried officiating and made it to a decent elite level?

kalehr
03-18-2005, 04:20 PM
I'm interested in getting started in refereeing next year. Question for those of you who referee quite regularly: how well should you need to skate in order to referee? I'm not iterested in getting up to the elite coaching levels, I'm just interested in refereeing games with younger kids in them, maybe games that only require a level 1 or 2 certification just to start. I've only been skating for about 1 1/2 years, and I've been warned you need to have pretty good skating skills to get your level 1 certification. Not quite sure what "pretty good" means, can anybody here clarify how well I should skate before going through the level 1 certification seminar? And what do they do in the seminars? Do they test you for skating ability, like speed and agility? Thanks for any help/advice you guys can give me...

BCCHL inactive
03-18-2005, 06:39 PM
I'm interested in getting started in refereeing next year. Question for those of you who referee quite regularly: how well should you need to skate in order to referee? I'm not iterested in getting up to the elite coaching levels, I'm just interested in refereeing games with younger kids in them, maybe games that only require a level 1 or 2 certification just to start. I've only been skating for about 1 1/2 years, and I've been warned you need to have pretty good skating skills to get your level 1 certification. Not quite sure what "pretty good" means, can anybody here clarify how well I should skate before going through the level 1 certification seminar? And what do they do in the seminars? Do they test you for skating ability, like speed and agility? Thanks for any help/advice you guys can give me...

First of all, how old are you? I ask that because games in the younger divisions are usually reserved for 12-15 year-old referees (keep in mind that I speak for my own local association) who are dedicated to improving and moving up in the ranks.

If you're just looking to contribute to your local association by officiating games (please, do not be in it for just for the money), as long as you have basic skating skills, there should be no reason for you to not get games based on that.

As for skating tests, those are only conducted at the very elite officiating clinics (at least here in BC), which are attended on a recommendation only basis after you've already proven yourself at an elite level.

In short, as long as you can skate and keep up with whatever level you officiate, don't worry.

kalehr
03-18-2005, 10:51 PM
First of all, how old are you? I ask that because games in the younger divisions are usually reserved for 12-15 year-old referees (keep in mind that I speak for my own local association) who are dedicated to improving and moving up in the ranks.

If you're just looking to contribute to your local association by officiating games (please, do not be in it for just for the money), as long as you have basic skating skills, there should be no reason for you to not get games based on that.

As for skating tests, those are only conducted at the very elite officiating clinics (at least here in BC), which are attended on a recommendation only basis after you've already proven yourself at an elite level.

In short, as long as you can skate and keep up with whatever level you officiate, don't worry.

Hey, thanks a bunch for the info. I am most DEFINITELY not 12-15 years old, I much older than that. :D I started skating a little over a year ago with the intent to play hockey. Unfortunately, I had to put that on hold for awhile but still want to find a way get involved with hockey until I feel comfortable enough with my skating and stick skills to join a team. I can do the basics (skate forward, backwards, crossovers, change of direction, etc.), but I do not have much speed yet. So I thought refereeing would be a good way to get started until my skating and other hockey related skills improve enough to join a team. I did email the person who organizes the coaching seminars in my area and the way he made it sound, you really have to be a solid and somewhat speedy skater to referee, so that concerned me somewhat. All I really want to do to start is referee some of the younger kids' games, I enjoy watching those games and I'm not too interested in getting into the higher levels of certification, at least not yet, and at least not until I decide if I really like refereeing and want to stick with it for more than a year or two...