Top NBA Team

Fish on The Sand
11-26-2004, 05:59 AM
I say Suns because well I'm a homer, but Nash and Stauds are completly ripping the league to shreds right now and should be co-mvps right now.

Ajacied
11-26-2004, 06:02 AM
The Suns have had a fairly easy schedule so far, that said they're looking pretty amazing so far. But they will come up short because of their defensive game, which is average at best.

The Sonics are the top team at the moment, they've defeated the Spurs, Kings, Wolves and Pistons, the big 4.

Fish on The Sand
11-26-2004, 06:07 AM
The Suns have had a fairly easy schedule so far, that said they're looking pretty amazing so far. But they will come up short because of their defensive game, which is average at best.

The Sonics are the top team at the moment, they've defeated the Spurs, Kings, Wolves and Pistons, the big 4.
The big 4? Are you kidding me? Kings are not what they once were, and the Pistons lost to the Bobcats. Anyone who loses to the Bobcats can't be considered big anything.

Ajacied
11-26-2004, 06:10 AM
The big 4? Are you kidding me? Kings are not what they once were, and the Pistons lost to the Bobcats. Anyone who loses to the Bobcats can't be considered big anything.

Kings started off with a very tough 3 game road trip. Give Peja some time to settle down and the Kings will be dangerous. If Peja doesn't settle's down, replace the Kings with the Mavs. The Pistons are the defending champs and have done nothing but improving themselves. Besides the brawl that is. Pretty ignorant to say they're not "anything big" based on one game while they played without some of their top players.

Belgian Fan
11-26-2004, 06:13 AM
San Antonio for me.

Minnesota, Phoenix and Dallas look like the biggest threats out West.

But I agree with O = S, the lack of defense on Phoenix will hount them in the playoffs. Amare may be a stud but his defending leaves a lot to be desired.


In the East the Pistons will once again be tough to beat. But if the Pacers get to the playoffs and get Artest back, who knows what will happen (imagine these guys going through a seven game series :eek: ).
Miami could do some damage as well, but they need Eddie Jones to step up and the Shaq to wake up.

Fish on The Sand
11-26-2004, 06:20 AM
Kings started off with a very tough 3 game road trip. Give Peja some time to settle down and the Kings will be dangerous. If Peja doesn't settle's down, replace the Kings with the Mavs. The Pistons are the defending champs and have done nothing but improving themselves. Besides the brawl that is. Pretty ignorant to say they're not "anything big" based on one game while they played without some of their top players.
The Bobcats are the worst team ever. They make the old Grizzlies teams from vancouver look like the mid-90s Bulls

Safir*
11-26-2004, 11:40 AM
The Bobcats are the worst team ever. They make the old Grizzlies teams from vancouver look like the mid-90s Bulls
:huh:
You are reaching. The season is still young.

BTW the Nets, Bulls, Hawks & Hornets all rank behind the Bobcats at the moment.

T-Wolves, Spurs, (Mavs) & a surprise team (Sonics, Suns...) are my favorites for the NBA crow.

Dr Love
11-26-2004, 12:32 PM
Habs, Suns, Indians, Chiefs... an intersting combo FOTS.

Dr Love
11-26-2004, 12:33 PM
The Bobcats are the worst team ever. They make the old Grizzlies teams from vancouver look like the mid-90s Bulls
Confuscious say don't play leap frog with glock.

Last I saw, they're at a better pace than the 9 win Sixers.

Tuggy
11-26-2004, 04:25 PM
I'm gonna go with Seattle. It looks like Allen and Lewis have taken their game to another level. They just have so many dangerous shooters that they make it tough to keep up with them.

Ronnie Bass
11-26-2004, 04:31 PM
San Antonio for me.

Minnesota, Phoenix and Dallas look like the biggest threats out West.

But I agree with O = S, the lack of defense on Phoenix will hount them in the playoffs. Amare may be a stud but his defending leaves a lot to be desired.


In the East the Pistons will once again be tough to beat. But if the Pacers get to the playoffs and get Artest back, who knows what will happen (imagine these guys going through a seven game series :eek: ).
Miami could do some damage as well, but they need Eddie Jones to step up and the Shaq to wake up.

Maybe I'm mistaken but I don't think he can back, I always thought that the season suspension included the playoffs.

Anybody know for sure different? :help:

Belgian Fan
11-26-2004, 04:37 PM
Maybe I'm mistaken but I don't think he can back, I always thought that the season suspension included the playoffs.

Anybody know for sure different? :help:

Yeah I wasn't sure either but I thought it was 73 games period. Not sure and too lazy to look up though :)

Ronnie Bass
11-26-2004, 05:04 PM
Yeah I wasn't sure either but I thought it was 73 games period. Not sure and too lazy to look up though :)

Ditto! :D

Belgian Fan
11-26-2004, 05:28 PM
Ditto! :D

Interest in Basketball only goes that far obviously. Once you reach the limit you just can't continue :lol

Fish on The Sand
11-27-2004, 04:55 AM
ahhh **** Nash is out with a concussion. Oh well, 11-2 now.

Epoch
11-27-2004, 11:57 AM
Going with San Antonio.

Gibsons Finest
11-27-2004, 04:45 PM
Right now, San Antonio's the best. TD's playing at his best, and Manu's a man possessed at this point.

Soon enough, there won't be one best team, but alot of very close teams. Those teams are the Pistons, Spurs, Mavs, T'Wolves, and Kings . The Pistons are the defending champs, and in replacing Okur with McDyess, they only get better. The Spurs don't have many weaknesses, especially with the addition of Brent Barry. The T'Wolves are still very good, but Spreewell and Cassell haven't been as good as they were last year. KG's still as dominant as ever, though. The Mavs are incredibly young, but finally with a true center, they're a hard team to beat, and will be even better in a couple years. The Kings are one of the most balanced teams in the league, but had they kept Vladdy, and traded C-Web for the best return possible, they might even be better(as Miller was doing so well at PF last year). Still a very good team, though.

The Sonics and Suns are very good now, but will decline as the season goes on. Nash, Stoudamire and co. and doing awesome thus far, but with Nash's injury, and their defense likely to crack sooner or later, they'll likely decline. In Seattle, the bench can only do so much, and I see them making the playoffs, but now staying as a top team in the association. The Heat are another good team, but even with Shaq, they aren't great defensively, and when you have Christian Laettner starting, there's trouble.

Fish on The Sand
11-27-2004, 05:51 PM
Right now, San Antonio's the best. TD's playing at his best, and Manu's a man possessed at this point.

Soon enough, there won't be one best team, but alot of very close teams. Those teams are the Pistons, Spurs, Mavs, T'Wolves, and Kings . The Pistons are the defending champs, and in replacing Okur with McDyess, they only get better. The Spurs don't have many weaknesses, especially with the addition of Brent Barry. The T'Wolves are still very good, but Spreewell and Cassell haven't been as good as they were last year. KG's still as dominant as ever, though. The Mavs are incredibly young, but finally with a true center, they're a hard team to beat, and will be even better in a couple years. The Kings are one of the most balanced teams in the league, but had they kept Vladdy, and traded C-Web for the best return possible, they might even be better(as Miller was doing so well at PF last year). Still a very good team, though.

The Sonics and Suns are very good now, but will decline as the season goes on. Nash, Stoudamire and co. and doing awesome thus far, but with Nash's injury, and their defense likely to crack sooner or later, they'll likely decline. In Seattle, the bench can only do so much, and I see them making the playoffs, but now staying as a top team in the association. The Heat are another good team, but even with Shaq, they aren't great defensively, and when you have Christian Laettner starting, there's trouble.
the most comparable team to the suns is the mavs, except the mavs dont have anyone to get things started anymore. Mavs defence sucks to, so to say that they will emerge as one of the top teams, and say the suns won't because of their defence isn't very logical. Also, Nash isn't expected to miss any games.

Gibsons Finest
11-27-2004, 06:13 PM
the most comparable team to the suns is the mavs, except the mavs dont have anyone to get things started anymore. Mavs defence sucks to, so to say that they will emerge as one of the top teams, and say the suns won't because of their defence isn't very logical. Also, Nash isn't expected to miss any games.

Mavs defense is much, much improved from last season. They've only allowed 1 or 2 100 point games IIRC. Shooting percentages against them have also been very low. This year, the Mavs' defense is definetely better than the Suns' IMO.

Porn*
11-27-2004, 07:25 PM
I"d have to go with the suns or mavericks.

They have depth and are performing well. I dont think S.A can maintain this performance depending so much on duncun and ginobli.

Chaos
11-27-2004, 11:33 PM
the most comparable team to the suns is the mavs, except the mavs dont have anyone to get things started anymore. Mavs defence sucks to, so to say that they will emerge as one of the top teams, and say the suns won't because of their defence isn't very logical. Also, Nash isn't expected to miss any games.

Yes...the Mavs of the past 3 years are comparable to the Suns...an all out offensive team led by Steve Nash who can't stop anyone. However, the Mavs this year actually know what their own end of the court looks like. And Jason Terry/Devin Harris may not be Steve Nash, but its adequate offensively and much, much, MUCH better defensively.

tylerr
11-27-2004, 11:45 PM
Where are the Raptors?

Ajacied
11-28-2004, 05:34 AM
Definitely not the Spurs. They're far from playing up to their usual, steady selfs. Losing comfortably from the Sonic, giving up over 100 points in the proces is unacceptable, as is blowing a 20 point lead to the Raptors and a loss to Memphis on back to back games. Only Tim Duncan has been consistent so far, it will be interesting to see Manu, Parker and Rasho playing up to par consistently. But the Spurs are slowstarters, they started out 8-10 last year as well before finishing with the best record of the West.

Legionnaire
11-28-2004, 06:50 AM
Definitely not the Spurs. They're far from playing up to their usual, steady selfs. Losing comfortably from the Sonic, giving up over 100 points in the proces is unacceptable, as is blowing a 20 point lead to the Raptors and a loss to Memphis on back to back games. Only Tim Duncan has been consistent so far, it will be interesting to see Manu, Parker and Rasho playing up to par consistently. But the Spurs are slowstarters, they started out 8-10 last year as well before finishing with the best record of the West.

Best team is so subjective in basketball. Most of the players seem sooo disintersted during the first half of the season, and maybe up until the playoffs.

StevenintheATL
11-28-2004, 08:37 PM
:huh:
You are reaching. The season is still young.

BTW the Nets, Bulls, Hawks & Hornets all rank behind the Bobcats at the moment.


In regards to the Hawks, "Restart" my eye! First full season of ownership for Atlanta Spirit LLC and they have to contend with not only an NHL Lockout but a Hawks team so bad that if a Detroit incident happened @ Philips Arena, there'd probably be more players in the building than fans. To paraphrase former Hawks TV announcer Skip Caray, "A gun toting maniac could open fire from Center Court with a machine gun and not hit anyone."

Accord
11-29-2004, 01:03 AM
The Spurs, of course.

The Sonics are riding a streak of luck, they can't continue that spectacular outside shooting all season long.

Wild Bill
11-29-2004, 04:17 AM
I like what Nate McMillan has done with Seattle. They are solid, but by no means the best...just hot. Phoenix is nice as well...I like Joe Johnson and Nash alot, but still lack the veterens. Both are in the 4-7 seed areas IMO.

I think once the shine wears off this new season and all the hot shooting teams start coming back down to earth, not many teams will be able to match up to the Wolves. The Spurs have always been tough and are right there, but still can't compare to the depth of the Wolves. Look at it this way:

Garnett=Duncan (not even gonna open that can)
Parker=Cassell (could be argued both ways, both are clutch and have rings)
Sprewell>>>>>Barry (not even close)
Szczerbiak=Ginobli (Wally has the offense, Manu the D)
Olowokandi>Nesterovic (seen them both extensively, Kandi is a chowder, but still better)
Hassell>>Bowen (Hassell is a better shooter and defender, not as dirty :D ...JMO)
Hoiberg<Horry (Horry has the ring, but is past his prime and Fred is lights out from beyong the arc, edge Horry)
Hudson>>>>>>>Wilks (uhh...)
Madsen>>Rose (Maddog covers Shaq at almost half the size...Rose is overpaid)
EJohnson>Massenburg (Big Erv is the glue, Massenburg has size and I'm a fan, but still not a leader like Erv the Perv)
EGriffin>>>>>Brown (EG is finally getting his life back on track and showing why he was a high 1st rounder...size, skill and all around game, will sign for big bucks in the off-season somewhere)

I tried to be as unbiased as possible and it is still not too close. Duncan is automatic and KG is the MVP...push them and the better cast is obvious. Once depth becomes a bigger factor as the season rolls along, watch the Wolves rattle off 35 of 45. Remember, the Wolves started 9-8 last year and went on to win the no. 1 seed in the West. This was not a coincidence.

JMHO of course. :)

Ajacied
11-29-2004, 05:27 AM
I like what Nate McMillan has done with Seattle. They are solid, but by no means the best...just hot. Phoenix is nice as well...I like Joe Johnson and Nash alot, but still lack the veterens. Both are in the 4-7 seed areas IMO.

I think once the shine wears off this new season and all the hot shooting teams start coming back down to earth, not many teams will be able to match up to the Wolves. The Spurs have always been tough and are right there, but still can't compare to the depth of the Wolves. Look at it this way:

Garnett=Duncan (not even gonna open that can)
Parker=Cassell (could be argued both ways, both are clutch and have rings)
Sprewell>>>>>Barry (not even close)
Szczerbiak=Ginobli (Wally has the offense, Manu the D)
Olowokandi>Nesterovic (seen them both extensively, Kandi is a chowder, but still better)
Hassell>>Bowen (Hassell is a better shooter and defender, not as dirty :D ...JMO)
Hoiberg<Horry (Horry has the ring, but is past his prime and Fred is lights out from beyong the arc, edge Horry)
Hudson>>>>>>>Wilks (uhh...)
Madsen>>Rose (Maddog covers Shaq at almost half the size...Rose is overpaid)
EJohnson>Massenburg (Big Erv is the glue, Massenburg has size and I'm a fan, but still not a leader like Erv the Perv)
EGriffin>>>>>Brown (EG is finally getting his life back on track and showing why he was a high 1st rounder...size, skill and all around game, will sign for big bucks in the off-season somewhere)

I tried to be as unbiased as possible and it is still not too close. Duncan is automatic and KG is the MVP...push them and the better cast is obvious. Once depth becomes a bigger factor as the season rolls along, watch the Wolves rattle off 35 of 45. Remember, the Wolves started 9-8 last year and went on to win the no. 1 seed in the West. This was not a coincidence.

JMHO of course. :)

Pretty uninformed and ignorant post to say the least.

The last game the Spurs played (against Utah), no starter played more than 27 minutes while their bench contributed with 55 points. The Spurs have among the highest scoring reserves in the NBA for a few years now. Depth is by no means a problem for the Spurs.

As far as the comparisons, horrible. I'll try:

Nesterovic > Olowakandi - To say otherwise is plain ignorant. Rasho is the superior defender and is a real team player. The "Kandi man" on the other hand, can't even start on a regular base, in fact, he was just suspended by the Wolves.

Duncan = Garnett - Fairly obvious, the game's best players. Though I still feel Duncan is the better team player, Garnett the better athlete.

Bruce Bowen > Trenton Hassel - Your reasons were hilarious once again. Bruce has averaged better numbers the past few years, owns Hassel from beyond the arc and was the runner up to Artest as the best defensive player in the NBA after being named to the All NBA defense first team. I believe Hassel made All NBA defense 2nd team once, Bowen's been on it since 1999/2000.

Emanuel Ginobili > Wally Szcerbiack - You say Manu brings the D, Szcerbiack the offense. I guess that's why Manu is averaging more in all the major categories (points, rebounds, assists, steals). Szcerbiack is a fine player and an underrated one at that, but Manu has stepped up his game even more and is a far more all-round player.

Brent Barry = Latrell Sprewell - Check their stats and they are nearly identical, especially when you consider how Spree plays about 5/10 minutes more per game. However, Barry is the better team player and is much more versatile. Sprewell has been known as a trouble maker ever since he choked his own coach while with the Warriors. I actually prefer Barry.

Tony Parker = Sam Cassels - If Parker played like he did in last years playoffs he would have gotten the edge, but then again, if Cassels would've played like he normally does, he would have gotten the edge. Right now, both players play under their abilities, only difference is that the cause might be because of age for Cassels while it's still inexperience for Tony Parker.

Malik Rose >> Mark Madsen - Rose has been nomined for 6th man of the year 3 times. He's of consistent value for the Spurs, working and hussling his butt off vs much bigger opponents. The stats heavily favor Rose as well. Not even close, Madsen is a fringe NBA player, Rose a top notch reserve/capable starter.

Beno Udrih < Troy Hudson - Udrih is the Spurs first round pick of last year and he's been very impressive. He's been making some sick passes and is averaging about 5 points in only 12 minutes while shooting nearly 50% from beyond the arc. He totally fits in, however, Troy is one of the better backup PG's in the NBA and Udrih needs a few more seasons before he can really be compared with Troy.

Devin Brown =/< Fred Hoiberg - Devin Brown is one of those players you want to get more minutes. He's a very athletic two-way guard/forward who always makes the most of his playing time. Hoiberg is a smart veteran and a dead-eye shooter, so I give him the edge for now.

Robert Horry < Eddie Griffin - Horry is probably the smartest player on the Spurs, and I easily prefer him once the playoffs come around, but untill then, Eddie Griffin owns Horry in most categories.

Tony Massenburg = Erving Johnson. Erving is probably the worst offensive player in the NBA, period. He's a sick rebounder, but that's pretty much all he can do. Luckily for him, the guy he's matched up with isn't all that different either. Two old veterans, no edge IMO.

On a side note, the Spurs miss two of their better reserve players. Luis Scola, Argentina's MVP at the Olympics and one of the "best players not in the NBA" was expected to join the Spurs this summer but it backfired and will now make his debute in 2005. Further more, Linton Johnson III who's very comparable to Eddie Griffin has been injured since the start of training camp.

And to top it off, you greatly underrestimate the role of a coach. Flip Saunders ain't bad, not at all, but Greg Popovich has two rings, co-coached the US Olympic team and was named coach of the year in 2003 after being a top 3 nominee for 4 straight seasons.

I don't see this superior edge the Wolves have on the Spurs in terms of depth, I might agree they have some better players, but as far as an actual team goes, I prefer this Spurs squad with relative ease, especially when you factor in the coach.

Wild Bill
11-29-2004, 04:17 PM
Pretty uninformed and ignorant post to say the least.

The last game the Spurs played (against Utah), no starter played more than 27 minutes while their bench contributed with 55 points. The Spurs have among the highest scoring reserves in the NBA for a few years now. Depth is by no means a problem for the Spurs.

As far as the comparisons, horrible. I'll try:

Ignorant and uninformed? Hmmm...Watching the Wolves since their birth and seeing the Spurs play at least a dozen times a year might give me a little something to say, don't you think? Maybe we differ on opinion?

As far as comparisons, check again:
Nesterovic > Olowakandi - To say otherwise is plain ignorant. Rasho is the superior defender and is a real team player. The "Kandi man" on the other hand, can't even start on a regular base, in fact, he was just suspended by the Wolves Having seen Rasho develop here, I can tell you he is not a superior defender. He is pretty soft, mentally and physically. He has good footwork, courtesy of Kevin McHale and is sound position wise, but has no fire. On many nights he had problems guarding physical 6'9" - 6'10" small forwards, let alone centers. He might not pull the stupid stuff that Kandi does, but when it comes to overall skill and athleticism, not close IMO. Michael does struggle with consistency, where Rasho is steady, but the talent level, aggressivness and defensive play aren't real close. Plus when the going got tough, that "teamplayer" got going...
Emanuel Ginobili > Wally Szcerbiack - You say Manu brings the D, Szcerbiack the offense. I guess that's why Manu is averaging more in all the major categories (points, rebounds, assists, steals). Szcerbiack is a fine player and an underrated one at that, but Manu has stepped up his game even more and is a far more all-round player. This is the one where we might be splitting hairs a little more. Manu might be ahead of Wally in all those catagories you mentioned, but Manu also plays a larger role. Wally is just starting to get worked into the starting lineup this year and finding his role hasn't been easy. His fg% and 3ptfg% are both down so far, where if I'm not mistaken were near the top last year in the NBA. His dribble drive sucks, but he is a great spot up shooter. He is a little slow on D and can be exposed by athletic 2-guards but is improving. Manu isn't the best defender either, but is better. I dunno, I guess I like the way Wally has sacrificed to fit into a very deep team. IMO the Spurs need Manu alot more than the Wolves need Wally and that's another testament of depth. Plus when all is said and done I think Wally will be a better player...higher ceiling.
Malik Rose >> Mark Madsen - Rose has been nomined for 6th man of the year 3 times. He's of consistent value for the Spurs, working and hussling his butt off vs much bigger opponents. The stats heavily favor Rose as well. Not even close, Madsen is a fringe NBA player, Rose a top notch reserve/capable starter. These guys are different types of players IMO and didn't want to compare them but... For starters, no one works harder on the court in the West than Mark Madsen, ask any Laker fan, they will tell you as well. Maddog is always looked at as a mismatch by opposing coaches because of his lack of size and the position he plays (PF/C), and yet almost always out muscles players quite bigger in the paint for offensive boards. This guy gets beat up night after night and keeps coming back for more. He might give more basketball skills when all is said and done and yet he usually ends with the ball. I'll admit, I've never been a fan of Malik's game...always thought he could do more with the size. He is more of a drifter in comparison. He's there on the weakside, but I rarely see him give up the body. For a guy his size and contract, he should do more. Gimme Maddog anyday of the week.
Brent Barry = Latrell Sprewell - Check their stats and they are nearly identical, especially when you consider how Spree plays about 5/10 minutes more per game. However, Barry is the better team player and is much more versatile. Sprewell has been known as a trouble maker ever since he choked his own coach while with the Warriors. I actually prefer Barry. This is the one I can't believe. Spre is a leader and a warrior. This "troublemaker" is also the firestarter on this team, gives them an edge they didn't have. He was one of the few that would not shy away from taking it to the teeth of the Lakers last postseason. How many teams has Brent been on and why? You say stats, well Spre is averaging alomost 5 more pts a game. I also say there are at least 100 players with comparable stats in the NBA, but does that make them better? No. What you lack to mention is Spre's defense. Much more athletic, quicker and smarter. A real savy veteren. A must have on a winning team. IMO Brent would be a 4th-5th guy off the bench of the Wolves...where is he on the Spurs? This one REALLY isn't close.

On the others, we are close, but I still don't see where you can think the quality is close. Wolves are 11 deep with guys that could/should be starting. I only see about 8 on the Spurs.

As far as coaching, you might have something there, although Duncan's low post has made Pop look like a genius for years now. Flip has won 2 CBA titles and a Coach of the Year and led them to the playoffs the last umpteen years as well. No slouch. I would say push.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Spurs ALOT. They should be considered the leaders of the West, mostly because of the Finals experience. It could be argued all day who is gonna win on the court any given game, but when it comes to depth, I don't see your reasoning.

IkeaMonkey*
11-29-2004, 04:28 PM
To paraphrase former Hawks TV announcer Skip Caray, "A gun toting maniac could open fire from Center Court with a machine gun and not hit anyone."


LOL!!!! ****ING GOLD! :lol

Ajacied
11-30-2004, 05:26 AM
Ignorant and uninformed? Hmmm...Watching the Wolves since their birth and seeing the Spurs play at least a dozen times a year might give me a little something to say, don't you think? Maybe we differ on opinion?Maybe your bias is interfering with your logic..


As far as comparisons, check again:
Having seen Rasho develop here, I can tell you he is not a superior defender. He is pretty soft, mentally and physically. He has good footwork, courtesy of Kevin McHale and is sound position wise, but has no fire. On many nights he had problems guarding physical 6'9" - 6'10" small forwards, let alone centers. He might not pull the stupid stuff that Kandi does, but when it comes to overall skill and athleticism, not close IMO. Michael does struggle with consistency, where Rasho is steady, but the talent level, aggressivness and defensive play aren't real close. Plus when the going got tough, that "teamplayer" got going...Have you ever considered that Rasho might've improved dramaticly since coming to the Spurs? He has replaced David Robinson without giving up much, if anything except for leadership. He's been averaging 2/3 blocks per game and averages 18 and 11 in games without Tim Duncan. He's among the better defensive centers in the league, but isn't relied upon once on the offensive end as much as he was in Minnesota. Olowakandi is not even in his league at the moment, he hasn't played a full season since 2001 and brings an off-court baggage, who cares who's more aggressive and athletic, there's not a single reason why anyone could pick the Kandi man over Rasho at this moment.


These guys are different types of players IMO and didn't want to compare them but... For starters, no one works harder on the court in the West than Mark Madsen, ask any Laker fan, they will tell you as well. Maddog is always looked at as a mismatch by opposing coaches because of his lack of size and the position he plays (PF/C), and yet almost always out muscles players quite bigger in the paint for offensive boards. This guy gets beat up night after night and keeps coming back for more. He might give more basketball skills when all is said and done and yet he usually ends with the ball. I'll admit, I've never been a fan of Malik's game...always thought he could do more with the size. He is more of a drifter in comparison. He's there on the weakside, but I rarely see him give up the body. For a guy his size and contract, he should do more. Gimme Maddog anyday of the week.Take off your Minnesota colored goggles for a freaking second. Rose is a PF/C of 6'7 and he isn't being mismatched? He's among the most energetic and hussling players I know. So Madsen gets beat up night after night, that's not a quality. Malik Rose owns Madsen just like the facts and statistics show. This matchup isn't even close.


IMO Brent would be a 4th-5th guy off the bench of the Wolves...where is he on the Spurs? This one REALLY isn't close.Sprewel is better defensively, I'll give you that, but Brent owns him in terms of shooting, passing and general basketball IQ. And like the Kandi man, Sprewell too is a cancer, as opposed to Barry who's one of the more likeable players, never having any trouble fitting in anywhere. I easily prefer Barry, especially for the Spurs who would don't even pay attention to troublemakers such as Sprewel.


On the others, we are close, but I still don't see where you can think the quality is close. Wolves are 11 deep with guys that could/should be starting. I only see about 8 on the Spurs.If you hand me your goggles, I think I'd see about 11/12 guys on the Spurs as capable starters as well..


As far as coaching, you might have something there, although Duncan's low post has made Pop look like a genius for years now. Flip has won 2 CBA titles and a Coach of the Year and led them to the playoffs the last umpteen years as well. No slouch. I would say push.A push? You're hilarious. The only coach that would be a "push" for Popovic would be Larry Brown and maybe Jerry Sloan. Saunders is a few notches below any of these right now.

Fish on The Sand
11-30-2004, 05:56 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerranking?season=2005&week=4

this settles it :D

Wild Bill
11-30-2004, 06:50 AM
Maybe your bias is interfering with your logic..
Same could be said to you...
Have you ever considered that Rasho might've improved dramaticly since coming to the Spurs? He has replaced David Robinson without giving up much, if anything except for leadership. He's been averaging 2/3 blocks per game and averages 18 and 11 in games without Tim Duncan. He's among the better defensive centers in the league, but isn't relied upon once on the offensive end as much as he was in Minnesota. Olowakandi is not even in his league at the moment, he hasn't played a full season since 2001 and brings an off-court baggage, who cares who's more aggressive and athletic, there's not a single reason why anyone could pick the Kandi man over Rasho at this moment.What Rasho has done for San Antonio is NOTHING in compasrison to what Dave Rob did. Rasho is filler, plain and simple. Because he doesn't screw up to the point of being noticed, does not make him a good player. He could've improved drastically and still been behind MANY. Height, footwork and position is all Rasho has. Who cares about agressiveness and athleticism? I would say every GM in Basketball. Ask McHale, at a third of the price, he'd take the headache over the flake anyday. I'm starting to wonder if you've ever seen either play.... Take off your Minnesota colored goggles for a freaking second. Rose is a PF/C of 6'7 and he isn't being mismatched? He's among the most energetic and hussling players I know. So Madsen gets beat up night after night, that's not a quality. Malik Rose owns Madsen just like the facts and statistics show. This matchup isn't even close.
I think it is you with the "Rose" colored glasses in this case...Everything I've heard from Spur's fans and seen is that Malik does not do enough. He has been on the trading block the last couple years and no one will take him and his fat salary. His 6th man of the year seasons had more to do with the back door plays from Duncan and weakside rebounds than working and hussling. Put him on a losing team, see what happens. Put Maddog on a losing team and watch heads spin. Maddog gives his heart, soul and body every night for this team. I respect that. Like I said, I've never been a fan of Malik's.Sprewel is better defensively, I'll give you that, but Brent owns him in terms of shooting, passing and general basketball IQ. And like the Kandi man, Sprewell too is a cancer, as opposed to Barry who's one of the more likeable players, never having any trouble fitting in anywhere. I easily prefer Barry, especially for the Spurs who would don't even pay attention to troublemakers such as Sprewel.
This is where you are dead wrong. Brent Barry might be a decent/streaky shooter, but so is Spre. Barry's passing is ok, but is uninspired IMO...maybe due to the fact of average teammates over the years. I don't see where you get the IQ evidence...you been digging in people's files or are you just assuming because he is the son of a former player he knows better...remember when you assume.... :) Spre makes the bad pass every now and again, but also always makes the great pass when it counts...he is more proven. Brent Barry has NEVER been in the same league as Spre and has never averaged even close to the points per game. Spre had the incident with PJ Carlisimo and years pass..........and pass.........and pass.....and pass........oh and makes a stupid statement about his contract situation. You fail to recognize that he has no agent and let things get blown out of proportion. If this makes him a cancer, then Rasho is the a new rare form of Leukemia. His contract year, LOTS of things were blown out of proportion in the media. Think about it. This is what the NBA is all about. Remember when Duncan was a free agent...I do...He was very unhappy with management. They haven't brought anyone in to help him, he is under-payed, he is going to Orlando, etc. All I'm saying is, if self-promotion is cancer, well then, you are watching the wrong sport. Spre is a warrior, Barry is not.If you hand me your goggles, I think I'd see about 11/12 guys on the Spurs as capable starters as well..
Still have not proven me wrong. All eleven I mentioned on the Wolves have been starters in the NBA at one point in their career. How many on the Spurs?A push? You're hilarious. The only coach that would be a "push" for Popovic would be Larry Brown and maybe Jerry Sloan. Saunders is a few notches below any of these right now. Jerry Sloan? Larry Brown? Greg Popovic isn't even on the same planet as these guys...and neither is Saunders.

You are quick to claim I'm biased and yet you have Greg Popovic as the best coach in the NBA, Brent Barry as a HOFer and road scholar, Malik Rose as the hardest worker "you know" and Rasho Nesterovic as the second coming of David Robinson... :joker:

Seriously though, I've been watching basketball for 20 years. The Wolves for 15. This is easily the best team the Wolves have had. Glen Taylor has spent $16 million over the salary cap to assemble this team. The Spurs are a great team and history has proven. I just said the Wolves were deeper. No offense, but I guess we should just agree to disagree.

Sturminator
11-30-2004, 11:33 AM
Clearly the Warriors aren't getting enough love in this thread.

Legionnaire
11-30-2004, 11:41 AM
Clearly the Warriors aren't getting enough love in this thread.

Well, if they'd "come out and play" they might get some.

Ric Flair
12-01-2004, 03:44 AM
Spurs

Fish on The Sand
12-01-2004, 03:46 AM
Suns win again, 12-2 now. Once again lighting it up with 115 regulation points. 29 from Amare, 21 from Matrix and a concussed Steve Nash chipped in with an average performance of 14 assists. I should add that the Suns now hold the top record in the NBA, and play the Cavs next.

Ajacied
12-01-2004, 04:05 AM
Suns win again, 12-2 now. Once again lighting it up with 115 regulation points. 29 from Amare, 21 from Matrix and a concussed Steve Nash chipped in with an average performance of 14 assists. I should add that the Suns now hold the top record in the NBA, and play the Cavs next.

Yeah, well the Spurs beat the Mavericks in Dallas by 18 points. ;)

The bench contributed with 47 points. That's 102 points they've scored in the past 2 games. Udrih and Brown both had 16 points, Duncan was below average but still managed to shoot above 50%, scoring 20 points, grabbing 13 rebounds and recording 5 blocks

We're at 12-3 now, but the Spurs aren't at their best yet..

Fish on The Sand
12-01-2004, 05:25 AM
Yeah, well the Spurs beat the Mavericks in Dallas by 18 points. ;)

The bench contributed with 47 points. That's 102 points they've scored in the past 2 games. Udrih and Brown both had 16 points, Duncan was below average but still managed to shoot above 50%, scoring 20 points, grabbing 13 rebounds and recording 5 blocks

We're at 12-3 now, but the Spurs aren't at their best yet..
precisely why I think the Mavs are overrated.

Suns top sportsnation

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/listranker?id=224

Ajacied
12-01-2004, 05:40 AM
precisely why I think the Mavs are overrated.

Suns top sportsnation

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/listranker?id=224

I prefer this one ;)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/marty_burns/11/29/power.rankings/index.html

Fish on The Sand
12-01-2004, 05:50 AM
I prefer this one ;)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/marty_burns/11/29/power.rankings/index.html
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/7946272

the proverbial worst power rankings, tsn


http://www.tsn.ca/nba/feature.asp?fid=2864

They have the wolves in first. I've never understood their power rankings. I guess they are stupid because they take player grades into consideration.

Chaos
12-01-2004, 08:52 AM
precisely why I think the Mavs are overrated.

Take away the Sun's 2nd best player and see what happens. I love how everyone forgets that Finely is still injured(missed his 11th game last night), Dirk isn't at 100% yet, and Daniels is still being bothered by a sprained left ankle. Thats 1 starter not playing, one of the best players in the league not fully healthy, and a solid contributer not healthy. Just wait until the playoffs roll around and we hopefully have everyone healthy.

Tuggy
12-01-2004, 05:07 PM
The Suns are pretty fun to watch.

Chaos
12-01-2004, 06:00 PM
The Suns are pretty fun to watch.

Yes they are...as were the Mavs of the past 3 years, and we all know how far those teams made it.

Gibsons Finest
12-01-2004, 06:17 PM
Yes they are...as were the Mavs of the past 3 years, and we all know how far those teams made it.

The Suns are nearly a carbon copy of the Mavs' teams of the last 2-3 years. Big, dominant power forward(Amare), awesome point guard named Steve Nash, and the last part of the big 3, albeit an underrated player(Matrix). But, you also got to include two important factors: No center, no defense.

The Mavericks finally got their big man, and the defense has been much, much better. Once Finley gets back, they'll be a hard team to beat down the stretch. And considering how terrible of team Minny is in the playoffs, if they beat the Spurs, they'll probably find their way to the NBA Finals.

Ajacied
12-02-2004, 02:17 AM
Spurs win again.. Bench now had 54 points.

The Spurs are winning games while they have yet to have every starter playing up to par consistently. Only Duncan (24 points (10-12), 12 rebounds, 6 blocks in 25 minutes) is the only starter who's a constant threat. Manu was one in the beginning, Parker is slowly coming along while Rasho still has to be involved a little more. And it's not so much that our bench is so consistent either, our top reserves in Barry and Rose have been rather below average the past few games, but their play has been compensated by Udrih and Brown who've combined for 66 points in the past 2 games.

They're at 13-3 now..

Fish on The Sand
12-02-2004, 08:19 AM
Spurs win again.. Bench now had 54 points.

The Spurs are winning games while they have yet to have every starter playing up to par consistently. Only Duncan (24 points (10-12), 12 rebounds, 6 blocks in 25 minutes) is the only starter who's a constant threat. Manu was one in the beginning, Parker is slowly coming along while Rasho still has to be involved a little more. And it's not so much that our bench is so consistent either, our top reserves in Barry and Rose have been rather below average the past few games, but their play has been compensated by Udrih and Brown who've combined for 66 points in the past 2 games.

They're at 13-3 now..
Suns dominate another team, this time dropping 120 on the Cavs. 13-2.

Safir*
12-02-2004, 08:28 AM
Suns dominate another team, this time dropping 120 on the Cavs. 13-2.

IMO The next game will be pointing the way for them.

Ajacied
12-02-2004, 02:07 PM
Suns dominate another team, this time dropping 120 on the Cavs. 13-2.

A few tidbits about the Spurs and Suns..

Suns rediculously piece-of-cake schedule:

Atlanta
Philadelphia
New Jersey
Chicago
Cleveland
Sacramento
Dallas
New Orleans
L.A. Lakers
L.A. Clippers
Chicago
Milwaukee
New Orleans
Utah
Cleveland

Spurs schedule:

Sacramento
L.A. Lakers
Seattle
Golden State
Miami
Atlanta
New York
Philadelphia
Boston
Toronto
Memphis
Dallas
Denver
Utah
Dallas
Philadelphia

- Suns offense ranks 1st in the NBA
- Suns defense ranks 17th in the NBA

- Spurs offense ranks 11th in the NBA
- Spurs defense ranks 1st in the NBA

Fish on The Sand
12-02-2004, 09:07 PM
A few tidbits about the Spurs and Suns..

Suns rediculously piece-of-cake schedule:

Atlanta
Philadelphia
New Jersey
Chicago
Cleveland
Sacramento
Dallas
New Orleans
L.A. Lakers
L.A. Clippers
Chicago
Milwaukee
New Orleans
Utah
Cleveland

Spurs schedule:

Sacramento
L.A. Lakers
Seattle
Golden State
Miami
Atlanta
New York
Philadelphia
Boston
Toronto
Memphis
Dallas
Denver
Utah
Dallas
Philadelphia

- Suns offense ranks 1st in the NBA
- Suns defense ranks 17th in the NBA

- Spurs offense ranks 11th in the NBA
- Spurs defense ranks 1st in the NBA
Spurs schedule hasn't been much tougher.

Chaos
12-02-2004, 09:24 PM
Spurs schedule hasn't been much tougher.

The 'easy' teams the Suns have played: Atlanta, New Jersey, Chicago(2), New Orleans(2).

The 'easy' teams the Spurs have played: Golden State, Atlanta, Memphis.

The 'top' teams the Suns have played: Sacramento, Dallas.

The 'top' teams the Spurs have played: Sacramento, Seattle, Dallas(2).

Im a Mavs fan, so believe me I'm in no way biased towards San Antonio, but its pretty clear that they have had a much more difficult schedule thus far

Safir*
12-02-2004, 09:24 PM
Spurs schedule hasn't been much tougher.

Yeah, but offensive wins game and defence wins championships. ;)

Fish on The Sand
12-02-2004, 09:27 PM
The 'easy' teams the Suns have played: Atlanta, New Jersey, Chicago(2), New Orleans(2).

The 'easy' teams the Spurs have played: Golden State, Atlanta, Memphis.

The 'top' teams the Suns have played: Sacramento, Dallas.

The 'top' teams the Spurs have played: Sacramento, Seattle, Dallas(2).

Im a Mavs fan, so believe me I'm in no way biased towards San Antonio, but its pretty clear that they have had a much more difficult schedule thus far
How do the Raptors, Knicks and Sixers avoid being called easy?

Safir*
12-02-2004, 09:29 PM
IMO The next game will be pointing the way for them.

BTW the next game is vs. the T.wolves. ;)

Fish on The Sand
12-02-2004, 09:32 PM
BTW the next game is vs. the T.wolves. ;)
according to tsn they are the top team in the nba.

Safir*
12-02-2004, 09:37 PM
according to tsn they are the top team in the nba.

They are supposed to be among the top teams, according to me. Well with all the mess surrounding Sprewell the team might be distracted or is at least uncomfortable with the whole situation. Hopefully both sides can work something so that Sprewells family ain't starving. :lol:

BTW the Suns are doing a nice job so far.

Somewhere, on this board or another, I picked one suprise team to win the NBA crown this year. Maybe the Suns? :dunno:

Fish on The Sand
12-02-2004, 09:54 PM
They are supposed to be among the top teams, according to me. Well with all the mess surrounding Sprewell the team might be distracted or is at least uncomfortable with the whole situation. Hopefully both sides can work something so that Sprewells family ain't starving. :lol:

BTW the Suns are doing a nice job so far.

Somewhere, on this board or another, I picked one suprise team to win the NBA crown this year. Maybe the Suns? :dunno:
I don't care what they were supposed to be, a team that is barely over .500 isn't better than the team with the league's best record.

Safir*
12-02-2004, 09:57 PM
I don't care what they were supposed to be, a team that is barely over .500 isn't better than the team with the league's best record.

Of course your are correct. But, what matters in the end is the post season success. It just like with a girl you to talk to in a club, either you'll just talk to her or MAKE LOVE with her in the end. ;)

Fish on The Sand
12-02-2004, 10:01 PM
Of course your are correct. But, what matters in the end is the post season success. It just like with a girl you to talk to in a club, either you'll just talk to her or MAKE LOVE with her in the end. ;)
post season success isn't exactly the T-Wolves strength.

Safir*
12-02-2004, 10:09 PM
post season success isn't exactly the T-Wolves strength.

Till last seaon. What about Suns post season success?

Fish on The Sand
12-02-2004, 10:20 PM
Till last seaon. What about Suns post season success?
took down the Spurs when they didn't even have their top player(neither did the Spurs I guess), and gave the Bulls arguably their biggest challenge during the dynasty. Also, they gave the Kings about all they could handle too a year after the upset over the Spurs.

Safir*
12-02-2004, 10:23 PM
took down the Spurs when they didn't even have their top player(neither did the Spurs I guess), and gave the Bulls arguably their biggest challenge during the dynasty. Also, they gave the Kings about all they could handle too a year after the upset over the Spurs.

BTW it's was legit question, because I never followed the Suns that closely.

Chaos
12-02-2004, 10:27 PM
How do the Raptors, Knicks and Sixers avoid being called easy?

Those are 3 average teams. Like it or not, the Suns are exactly like the Mavs of the past 3 seasons. You will see come playoff time just how far that style of play WONT get you.

The Guy on the Couch*
12-02-2004, 10:29 PM
McGrady's going off on TNT.

The Guy on the Couch*
12-02-2004, 10:44 PM
Dirk Nowitzki is a freak of nature.

Chaos
12-02-2004, 10:59 PM
McGrady's going off on TNT.

He's got 48 points, 9 boards, 9 assists.....and he's not even the best player in the game tonight. Dirk has lit it up for 53 points, 16 rebounds, and 4 blocks. Truly a great game by 2 of the NBA's best players.

Wild Bill
12-03-2004, 12:09 AM
They are supposed to be among the top teams, according to me. Well with all the mess surrounding Sprewell the team might be distracted or is at least uncomfortable with the whole situation. Hopefully both sides can work something so that Sprewells family ain't starving. :lol:

http://www.thebrushback.com/Archives/lsprewell_full.htm


LOL

Safir*
12-03-2004, 05:27 AM
Dirk Nowitzki is a freak of nature.

- 53 points. Out of 22 free throws, he's misses ONE. :amazed:

- 16 rebounds

Dirk you are truely a Wunderkind. :bow:

Fish on The Sand
12-04-2004, 06:17 PM
well, Suns couldn't hang on to the lead against the T-Wolves, how disappointing. Usually the team kills teams in the 4th.

Ajacied
12-05-2004, 04:41 AM
Spurs win again to improve to 15-3. Beat the Bucks by 21 in Milwaukee on their 2nd game in as many nights. Bench now had 48 points while Rasho was the only starter to log more than 29 minutes.

Cerebral
12-05-2004, 04:53 AM
The Big Fundamental and Ginboli are such a wicked combination...

Safir*
12-05-2004, 07:23 AM
"Dirkules" is the motherfriggin NBA scoring leader :amazed: :amazed: :amazed:

004-05 Regular Season Points Per Game
Player G FG FT PTS PPG
1. Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas Mavericks) 17 148 150 466 27.4

2. Kobe Bryant (Los Angeles Lakers) 17 135 158 455 26.8

3. Amare Stoudemire (Phoenix Suns) 16 154 108 416 26.0

4. Allen Iverson (Philadelphia 76ers) 15 125 112 377 25.1

4. LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers) 17 160 91 427 25.1

Ajacied
12-07-2004, 08:54 AM
Spurs continue to play decent ball.. Now stand at 16-3, league's best. Bench had 41 points this time, no starter played more than 28 minutes. Up next are the Sonics.

High flyin' Habs*
12-07-2004, 10:13 AM
I can truly say that San Antonio are the closest team to being perfect in the nba right now. They are truly the best and this coming from a Mavs fan. We suck! :shakehead

Fish on The Sand
12-08-2004, 05:37 AM
nice to see the Warriors come to town. Nothing like an easy light up. Also, Suns have topped 120 3 times this season, and have been held to under 100 a mere 4 times. That is just crazy. Some people are talking about 60 wins right now. I wouldn't go that far, it is still reletively early, and although they are 1/4 way there, I'll wait till they hit 40 wins in 50 games before I start thinking 60 is a foregone conclusion.

Tuggy
12-08-2004, 05:42 AM
Spurs continue to play decent ball.. Now stand at 16-3, league's best. Bench had 41 points this time, no starter played more than 28 minutes. Up next are the Sonics.

That should be a good game.

tripledekehockey
12-08-2004, 08:25 AM
i like the spurs here over the sonics

Tuggy
12-08-2004, 11:18 PM
Seattle now best in the west.

Fish on The Sand
12-09-2004, 02:37 AM
Seattle now best in the west.
Actually, the Suns are ranked no 1 despite tied records, tied conference records and tied division records. I believe any tie breaker based on any sort of stats goes to the suns though.

Tuggy
12-09-2004, 02:41 AM
Actually, the Suns are ranked no 1 despite tied records, tied conference records and tied division records. I believe any tie breaker based on any sort of stats goes to the suns though.

Ok the Suns are first in the West, I was making more of a reference about how the Sonics beat the Spurs.

kruezer
12-09-2004, 03:25 AM
Impressive game out of the Sonics, Duncan was a beast that game too.

Anybody catch the LAL/Suns game? Yikes.

Ajacied
12-09-2004, 04:20 AM
Spurs were absolutely horrendous defensively. Duncan took 24 shots, a bit too much for my likings and the bench was horrible as well.

Spurs still have a long road to go..

kruezer
12-09-2004, 04:23 AM
Spurs were absolutely horrendous defensively. Duncan took 24 shots, a bit too much for my likings and the bench was horrible as well.

Spurs still have a long road to go..
Fair enough, the Sonics are just in a zone right now though, there's not alot of shame in losing to them.

Safir*
12-09-2004, 04:24 AM
Spurs were absolutely horrendous defensively. Duncan took 24 shots, a bit too much for my likings and the bench was horrible as well.

Spurs still have a long road to go..

He wound up with 39 points. It was certainly not Duncans fault that the Spurs lost. As you already pointed out, the scoring from the bench was toooo low.

Ajacied
12-09-2004, 04:29 AM
Fair enough, the Sonics are just in a zone right now though, there's not alot of shame in losing to them.

It's not, they played a great game. But giving up 60 first half points as a Spurs fan is very frustrating. I can't believe the last time the Spurs allowed 100 points at home.

Duncan wasn't more than a beast as usual. Defensively he looked below his usual self and offensively all he did was take a few more shots Rasho would've shot.

Seattle is playing great, but having your arse handed by them *twice* this early in the season definitely indicates that the Spurs just aren't as good as their record shows. I figure we'll see the Spurs at their best around the break, just like every year.

Wild Bill
12-09-2004, 05:48 AM
Eddie Griffin played 30 minutes in front of family and friends and scored 27 points along with 11 rebounds (5 offensive) and 4 assists. EG shot 7 of 15 from beyond the arc (6 of 10 in the first half) helping the Wolves set a new franchise record of 15 3-pt fgs in a game. They also set a team record of margin of road victory (35). The Wolves needed this win having been thoroughly outplayed by Dirk Nowitzki and the Mavs the night before. Latrell Sprewell, in his first game back from a one game suspension, led off with the game's first 8 points. Spre was sharp, going 9 of 14 from the field (5 of 8 from 3-pt) in route to scoring 24 points.

The game truly belonged to Eddie Griffin though. Besides his offense, his interior defense was great and always seemed to be involved whether he was passing to a slashing teammate or simply setting a strong pick. Very crisp. At 22 years old his game still has room for improvement, but his play of late has to warrant "6th man" consideration IMO. I'm very excited for this guys future.

I also watched the Suns and Lakers game and came away very impressed by Joe Johnson. Man is he good on this team. Amare Stoudemire's game has been maturing as well. I can't help but see the Dallas Mavericks run and gun game going on here, except with an inside game as well. Very fun fun to watch and very dangerous offensively.

Fish on The Sand
12-09-2004, 07:57 AM
Impressive game out of the Sonics, Duncan was a beast that game too.

Anybody catch the LAL/Suns game? Yikes.
gotta love it, Suns finish the game on a 19-3 run, and win by 3. I love the suns. they aren't out of any game.

Fish on The Sand
12-09-2004, 07:59 AM
Fair enough, the Sonics are just in a zone right now though, there's not alot of shame in losing to them.
true enough. I thought the sonics would fade this season, and still will, but certainly no to the bottom of the playoff heap. They will be in the fight at the top, but they live on the 3 point shot and they can't shoot that well forever can they?

Chaos
12-09-2004, 10:14 AM
I can't help but see the Dallas Mavericks run and gun game going on here, except with an inside game as well.

You aren't the only one who sees that. Once they actually play some real difficult opponents(like in the playoffs), that style whill kill them, just like it killed the Mavs the past 3 years.

Wild Bill
12-09-2004, 10:51 PM
Wow...what an ending to the Spurs and Rockets game...McGrady with two three pointers in the final seconds...down by double digits in the final minute...unbelievable.

Tuggy
12-09-2004, 10:56 PM
Wow...what an ending to the Spurs and Rockets game...McGrady with two three pointers in the final seconds...down by double digits in the final minute...unbelievable.

IMO it's pretty safe to say now that the Rockets are Tracy's team, 13 in 33 seconds :eek:

Also the Sonics have just beaten the Mavericks in Dallas. NOW Seattle is best in the West :D

Fish on The Sand
12-10-2004, 02:38 AM
NOW Seattle is best in the West :D
not really, the Suns play the Bobcats tomorrow so effectively they are tied :joker:

Tuggy
12-10-2004, 02:52 AM
not really, the Suns play the Bobcats tomorrow so effectively they are tied :joker:

:D true

Fish on The Sand
12-10-2004, 02:57 AM
on the topic of best team, I think its safe to say the Suns have been the most consistant of any team this year. The games they lost were all very close(11 points combined difference), and on average they outscore the opponent by 111. not to mention they boast the best starting lineup in the league.

Tuggy
12-10-2004, 03:44 AM
on the topic of best team, I think its safe to say the Suns have been the most consistant of any team this year. The games they lost were all very close(11 points combined difference), and on average they outscore the opponent by 111. not to mention they boast the best starting lineup in the league.

Damn I must have missed those 200 point games ;)

But I agree their starting lineup is the best in the NBA. One player that doesn't get a lot of press is Joe Johnson, very good player.

Fish on The Sand
12-10-2004, 07:36 AM
Damn I must have missed those 200 point games ;)

But I agree their starting lineup is the best in the NBA. One player that doesn't get a lot of press is Joe Johnson, very good player.
haha, well an obvious typo, I'm pretty sure you know I meant 11. But 200 may not be out of the question tonight :D

Chaos
12-10-2004, 08:45 AM
Also the Sonics have just beaten the Mavericks in Dallas. NOW Seattle is best in the West :D

Another all offense team in the mold of the Mavs of the past 3 years. Just wait until playoff time and people step up their defensive game even more(and are hopefully completely healthy).

Fish on The Sand
12-11-2004, 06:53 AM
As expected, the Suns put on another blistering display of offence.

Safir*
12-11-2004, 07:24 AM
As expected, the Suns put on another blistering display of offence.

Well the Bobcats are too average, they need a 20 pts man, a constant threat. They have the potential to become a team, where everybody can score. In hockey terms you would say that the 1st line is more like a 2nd line, but their 2nd and 3rd line scoring is solid.

The Suns should keep in mind that their defence isn't that good. They already allowed a couple of their opponent 100+ point games:

- 2x Cleveland (12-7)
- Sacramento (13-6)
- Dallas (13-8)
- 2x Lakers (10-8)
- Clippers (11-7)
- Bucks (6-10)
- Utah (9-11)
- Golden State (5-14)
- Charlotte (4-13)
= 11 games

Allowing the those sub .500 teams more than 100 points isn't that good. If they want to succeed in the post season they'll have to work on that (trading?).

Fish on The Sand
12-11-2004, 06:06 PM
Well the Bobcats are too average, they need a 20 pts man, a constant threat. They have the potential to become a team, where everybody can score. In hockey terms you would say that the 1st line is more like a 2nd line, but their 2nd and 3rd line scoring is solid.

The Suns should keep in mind that their defence isn't that good. They already allowed a couple of their opponent 100+ point games:

- 2x Cleveland (12-7)
- Sacramento (13-6)
- Dallas (13-8)
- 2x Lakers (10-8)
- Clippers (11-7)
- Bucks (6-10)
- Utah (9-11)
- Golden State (5-14)
- Charlotte (4-13)
= 11 games

Allowing the those sub .500 teams more than 100 points isn't that good. If they want to succeed in the post season they'll have to work on that (trading?).
I dn't think its really so much a defence problem, as by most accounts the Suns are actually playing pretty good defence. I think it is because they don't use the shot clock and score often. A lot of those good defences aren't even good, they just kill the clock while they have it.

Ajacied
12-12-2004, 05:57 AM
Ouch, Spurs shot 85% in the first half. Duncan with 34 points on 13/15 shooting. Lots of inconsistent play once again though.

Fish on The Sand
12-14-2004, 12:25 AM
any doubt the suns aren't the best now? Spurs and Sonics are way too inconsistant and there is no doubt in my mind the Suns would smash them like guitars head to head right now.

Chaos
12-14-2004, 09:05 AM
any doubt the suns aren't the best now? Spurs and Sonics are way too inconsistant and there is no doubt in my mind the Suns would smash them like guitars head to head right now.

Right now? Yes....come playoff time, however, they will be like the Mavs of the past 3 years when someone actually shows up and plays great defense, they will lose. They wont make it out of the 2nd round.

Safir*
12-14-2004, 09:20 AM
Right now? Yes....come playoff time, however, they will be like the Mavs of the past 3 years when someone actually shows up and plays great defense, they will lose. They wont make it out of the 2nd round.

Yeah...their last opponent once again dumped 100 points on them.

Chaos
12-14-2004, 09:58 AM
Yeah...their last opponent once again dumped 100 points on them.

Yep....once they run into someone who can slow Nash down(which Nash will do to himself later in the year, I've seen it happen 3 years running), then they will fall apart.

Fish on The Sand
12-14-2004, 03:19 PM
Yep....once they run into someone who can slow Nash down(which Nash will do to himself later in the year, I've seen it happen 3 years running), then they will fall apart.
Nash only played 27 mins last night.

Fish on The Sand
12-14-2004, 03:20 PM
Yeah...their last opponent once again dumped 100 points on them.
When you put up 120+ points you can't expect to hold them to under 80. The Suns defence isn't even bad, they just don't kill the clock all game while they have it.

Chaos
12-14-2004, 03:53 PM
Nash only played 27 mins last night.

And thats nice....just wait until late in the year and the playoffs, when Nash is out of gas. I've seen it for 3 straight years, and its not gonna change this year.

Fish on The Sand
12-14-2004, 06:21 PM
And thats nice....just wait until late in the year and the playoffs, when Nash is out of gas. I've seen it for 3 straight years, and its not gonna change this year.
The difference between Phoenix and Dallas is we have more guys who can spread the ball. Johnson, Jakobsen and Barborossa can all fill in. Witht he old Mavs, it was a useless 8 foot center, 3 shooters and Nash.

Chaos
12-14-2004, 06:40 PM
The difference between Phoenix and Dallas is we have more guys who can spread the ball. Johnson, Jakobsen and Barborossa can all fill in. Witht he old Mavs, it was a useless 8 foot center, 3 shooters and Nash.

Yes, because Van Exel, Avery Johnson, Travis Best, and Tony Delk couldn't spread the ball. Face it....just like I heard it the past 3 years, you are gonna hear it this year....they won't get anywhere in the playoffs playing all out offense. It just DOES NOT work. We tried it in Dallas for 3 straight years and never got past the Conference Finals.

Fish on The Sand
12-14-2004, 06:54 PM
Yes, because Van Exel, Avery Johnson, Travis Best, and Tony Delk couldn't spread the ball. Face it....just like I heard it the past 3 years, you are gonna hear it this year....they won't get anywhere in the playoffs playing all out offense. It just DOES NOT work. We tried it in Dallas for 3 straight years and never got past the Conference Finals.
This is the post-shaq era, and the only big man in the conference who can hurt them is Duncan, but I am not worried, Suns took out the Spurs once a few years ago. They didn't have Duncan, but they did have Robinson.

Chaos
12-14-2004, 07:54 PM
This is the post-shaq era, and the only big man in the conference who can hurt them is Duncan,

its not all about a big man...you have to be able to play really, really good defense to win in the playoffs.

but I am not worried, Suns took out the Spurs once a few years ago. They didn't have Duncan, but they did have Robinson.

That explains that.

Fish on The Sand
12-14-2004, 07:58 PM
its not all about a big man...you have to be able to play really, really good defense to win in the playoffs.



That explains that.
well, Suns didn't have Kidd, and Kidd was far more important to the Suns was than Duncan was to the Spurs, who were the defending champs and the Suns best player was Clifford Robinson and his 18 ppg. Plus, the Suns do have a really good defence, better than the mavs ever had.

Chaos
12-14-2004, 08:03 PM
well, Suns didn't have Kidd, and Kidd was far more important to the Suns was than Duncan was to the Spurs, who were the defending champs and the Suns best player was Clifford Robinson and his 18 ppg. Plus, the Suns do have a really good defence, better than the mavs ever had.

Lol...at the time, Duncan was arguably the most important player to his team. Im sorry, but the Suns do not have "really good defense". But Im done arguing this with you, as you, much like me with the Mavs the past 3 years, dont want to hear the truth.

Fish on The Sand
12-14-2004, 08:11 PM
Suns rank 3rd in the nba in defensive rebounding, 4th lowest fg% against, 6th lowest 3pt% against, and the 3rd most blocks. Yeah real crappy defence :shakehead A lot of those so called "good" defences aren't even good, they just hardly allow any point because they drain the shot clock every time they touch the ball. The old Knick teams that got exposed in the playoffs every year come to mind.

Gibsons Finest
12-14-2004, 08:12 PM
well, Suns didn't have Kidd, and Kidd was far more important to the Suns was than Duncan was to the Spurs, who were the defending champs and the Suns best player was Clifford Robinson and his 18 ppg. Plus, the Suns do have a really good defence, better than the mavs ever had.

No, the Suns don't have a really good defense. They try to use the offensive juggernaut to win games all the time. Let me tell you right now, it doesn't work.

You need defense to win the big games. Nash has none, and while I'm not sure on other guys' defensive games, the Suns have sucked on defense. Nash is going to get worse as the season goes on. That's the reason Devin Harris was drafted by Dalaas before Nash left, so Nash wasn't playing as much(but then he left). He's a great passer, and a good scorer, but he's not durable, and isn't good defensively.

Fish on The Sand
12-14-2004, 08:13 PM
No, the Suns don't have a really good defense. They try to use the offensive juggernaut to win games all the time. Let me tell you right now, it doesn't work.

You need defense to win the big games. Nash has none, and while I'm not sure on other guys' defensive games, the Suns have sucked on defense. Nash is going to get worse as the season goes on. That's the reason Devin Harris was drafted by Dalaas before Nash left, so Nash wasn't playing as much(but then he left). He's a great passer, and a good scorer, but he's not durable, and isn't good defensively.
why are they near the top of the league in almost all defensive categories then? Most experts say that the suns have a very good defence.

Stan Mcneal of the sporting news.....


Much has been made of the Suns leading the league in scoring, but they're not getting credit for playing very good defense. Joe Johnson has emerged as a stopper, along with Shawn Marion. Yes, Phoenix shoots 47.7 percent from the field and 37.7 percent from the 3-point line, both league highs, but they're also holding opponents to 42.5 percent from the field and 32 percent on 3s. They're third in the league in blocked shots, too.

Fish on The Sand
12-14-2004, 10:47 PM
now that stats have been brought in, silence. I guess it really is too much to admit that the Suns are a good defensive team as well as being an offensive juggernaught.

Gibsons Finest
12-14-2004, 10:54 PM
why are they near the top of the league in almost all defensive categories then? Most experts say that the suns have a very good defence.

Stan Mcneal of the sporting news.....


Much has been made of the Suns leading the league in scoring, but they're not getting credit for playing very good defense. Joe Johnson has emerged as a stopper, along with Shawn Marion. Yes, Phoenix shoots 47.7 percent from the field and 37.7 percent from the 3-point line, both league highs, but they're also holding opponents to 42.5 percent from the field and 32 percent on 3s. They're third in the league in blocked shots, too.

Stats don't tell the story. Teams may not shoot well against them, but they still allow teams to score 100+ on them. Hell, Charlotte scored 100+ against them.

They're good offensively, so other teams have to play catch-up. So they don't stick to the game plan, and make bad shots. Phoenix has also had a fairly easy schedule through the first quarter.

Had I seen that you replied sooner, I would've made this post then, so don't think you've silenced nobody with stats. Always remember, stats don't always tell the whole story.

Fish on The Sand
12-14-2004, 10:58 PM
Stats don't tell the story. Teams may not shoot well against them, but they still allow teams to score 100+ on them. Hell, Charlotte scored 100+ against them.

They're good offensively, so other teams have to play catch-up. So they don't stick to the game plan, and make bad shots. Phoenix has also had a fairly easy schedule through the first quarter.

Had I seen that you replied sooner, I would've made this post then, so don't think you've silenced nobody with stats. Always remember, stats don't always tell the whole story.
well, I always brough tin an opinion. Teams score a lot because they just have more possesions. Like I said, the Suns could easily slow the game down by killing the shot clock every time they touch the ball, and hold teams to 80 points a game, but they don't need to because the average suns game ends in a blowout for the suns.

Chaos
12-14-2004, 11:08 PM
well, I always brough tin an opinion. Teams score a lot because they just have more possesions. Like I said, the Suns could easily slow the game down by killing the shot clock every time they touch the ball, and hold teams to 80 points a game, but they don't need to because the average suns game ends in a blowout for the suns.

No, they couldnt...even the leagues best defensive team, the Spurs, give up 85 a game. To say the Suns could 'easily' hold people under 80 shows just how bad your homerism is.

Chaos
12-14-2004, 11:10 PM
Suns rank 3rd in the nba in defensive rebounding, 4th lowest fg% against, 6th lowest 3pt% against, and the 3rd most blocks. Yeah real crappy defence :shakehead A lot of those so called "good" defences aren't even good, they just hardly allow any point because they drain the shot clock every time they touch the ball. The old Knick teams that got exposed in the playoffs every year come to mind.

And they are 19th in the most important stat, points allowed. And this while they have played a relatively soft schedule thus far.

Fish on The Sand
12-14-2004, 11:25 PM
No, they couldnt...even the leagues best defensive team, the Spurs, give up 85 a game. To say the Suns could 'easily' hold people under 80 shows just how bad your homerism is.
sorry, exageration, but they could easily hold teams to around 90

Fish on The Sand
12-16-2004, 04:28 PM
Suns kill the jazz, now sit at 19-3 with the Sonics up next.

Tuggy
12-16-2004, 04:30 PM
Suns kill the jazz, now sit at 19-3 with the Sonics up next.

They are makin it look pretty easy.

Chaos
12-16-2004, 04:55 PM
Suns kill the jazz, now sit at 19-3 with the Sonics up next.

Ah, a game between two teams who won't go anywhere in the playoffs ;) .

Fish on The Sand
12-18-2004, 01:47 AM
Suns pull out a close one. There can be no disputing it now. First team to 20 wins

Ajacied
12-18-2004, 05:27 AM
Meh, Spurs offense is so inconsistent, freaks me out. Popovich better starts concentrating on that before we'll see the Spurs playing at their full potential. Their defense is just sick as usual, allowed 67 games last night for an average of like 84.8 for the season. The next best defensive team allows over 90.

Safir*
12-18-2004, 05:33 AM
sorry, exageration, but they could easily hold teams to around 90

Yeah in playoffs it's 90 something vs. 80 something against the Suns. ;)

Your homerism isn't that funny anymore. BTW Haven't you learned from what happend to the Chiefs last season? I mean they were off to an awesome start, but FAILED to deliver in the playoffs. :teach:

I.am.ca
12-18-2004, 05:39 AM
Watching the Suns alot on the dish lately, mostly due to local product Nash and i noticed that they have every piece of the offensive powerhouse puzzle. Their defense needs a little work but other than that, when the season is midway through and the team stays on pace with this stellar play, they will be the team to beat in the playoffs.

Chaos
12-18-2004, 09:56 AM
Suns pull out a close one. There can be no disputing it now. First team to 20 wins

Yep, that settles it. Just remember back when the Mavs started 14-0....didn't win a championship that year either. Know why? Because they relied on their offense tho win games.

ObeySteve
12-18-2004, 11:58 AM
Somewhat unrelated to the exact topic at hand, but...

If Shaq does take what was a .500 team and make the Heat NBA champions in the next few seasons (hell, even this one), will he seal his fate as one of the 10 best basketball players ever?

Ajacied
12-18-2004, 12:02 PM
Somewhat unrelated to the exact topic at hand, but...

If Shaq does take what was a .500 team and make the Heat NBA champions in the next few seasons (hell, even this one), will he seal his fate as one of the 10 best basketball players ever?

1 - The Heat weren't a .500 team last season if I recall correctly.
2 - Dwayne Wade and Eddie Jones are not exactly bad teammates.
3 - Even if Shaq were to retire today, I think he'll be one of NBA's 10 best ever.

Fish on The Sand
12-19-2004, 12:25 AM
Suns dominate the wizards.....there can be no doubt anymore as to who is the nba's best team. I can say without any doubt at all that every power ranking in the nation will have the Suns at top spot on monday.

Son of Steinbrenner
12-19-2004, 12:27 AM
Suns dominate the wizards.....there can be no doubt anymore as to who is the nba's best team. I can say without any doubt at all that every power ranking in the nation will have the Suns at top spot on monday.
when did the nba start crowning champions during the holidays :dunno:

Fish on The Sand
12-19-2004, 12:27 AM
when did the nba start crowning champions during the holidays :dunno:
when did I say they were going to be champions? I merely said they are the best team right now, which is a clear yes.

Son of Steinbrenner
12-19-2004, 12:30 AM
when did I say they were going to be champions?
thats the point. being a top team in december is one thing but being on top in june is another.

Fish on The Sand
12-19-2004, 12:35 AM
thats the point. being a top team in december is one thing but being on top in june is another.
well, right now, the suns have to be the favorites to win it all, they just can't be stopped.

Son of Steinbrenner
12-19-2004, 12:38 AM
well, right now, the suns have to be the favorites to win it all, they just can't be stopped.
i still think they would have a hard time with the spurs or sonics in a long series but you may be right.

hey i'm a nets fan hoping vince carter can get the team the 8th spot so i envy the suns. i just don't think you should get your hopes up just yet there is still a lot of season left.

Ajacied
12-19-2004, 04:07 AM
well, right now, the suns have to be the favorites to win it all, they just can't be stopped.

They haven't faced the Spurs or Pistons yet, untill they beat them, there's no clear cut favorite.

Belgian Fan
12-19-2004, 04:11 AM
Relax people, this is FOTS you're debating with ;)

Chaos
12-19-2004, 10:23 AM
well, right now, the suns have to be the favorites to win it all, they just can't be stopped.

No, they don't. The Mavs started 21-3 two years ago, and were hardly considered the favorites to win it all at the time. You know why? Because just like a certain 21-3 team this year, the Mavs won with their offense. That just does NOT work in the playoffs. You need to get that through your head, as I am speaking from THREE straight years of experience, watching the Mavs try to outscore people in the playoffs. Doesn't work.

Fish on The Sand
12-19-2004, 04:23 PM
They haven't faced the Spurs or Pistons yet, untill they beat them, there's no clear cut favorite.
The Pistons are barely .500. Don't insult the Suns like that. And the Spurs proved they don't belong on the same court as the Sonics and the Suns beat that same Sonics team.

Fish on The Sand
12-19-2004, 04:24 PM
No, they don't. The Mavs started 21-3 two years ago, and were hardly considered the favorites to win it all at the time. You know why? Because just like a certain 21-3 team this year, the Mavs won with their offense. That just does NOT work in the playoffs. You need to get that through your head, as I am speaking from THREE straight years of experience, watching the Mavs try to outscore people in the playoffs. Doesn't work.
No, they weren't considered the best because of the Lakers and that is the short and long of it. As long as Shaq and Kobe were together, nobody was going to be the favorite.

kruezer
12-19-2004, 09:29 PM
No, they don't. The Mavs started 21-3 two years ago, and were hardly considered the favorites to win it all at the time. You know why? Because just like a certain 21-3 team this year, the Mavs won with their offense. That just does NOT work in the playoffs. You need to get that through your head, as I am speaking from THREE straight years of experience, watching the Mavs try to outscore people in the playoffs. Doesn't work.
I don't necessarily think that Phoenix is the best team right now, or that they will be in the future, but I think they are far better defensively than those old Mavs teams IMO. Stevie Nash is not good at defense at all, but the major difference is down in the post IMO, I don't think Nowitzki and the various other guys they started beside him are nearly the defensive players that Stoudemire and Marion are, and Amare is still young, he can only get better on defense IMO. I like Nowitzki, but his defense is just atrocious, and Nash is just as bad, Phoenix needed offensive help, they got it in Nash, Dallas needed defense and they got it by having anybody but Nash.

I also wouldn't make that big a deal about how much Phoenix scores, they allow 97.6 PPGA right now, 18th in the league, not great but not the end of the world, Dallas is 9th in the league with 94.4 PPGA, now Dallas is better on D, but I'm not sure if the fact they allow 3.2 less PPGA is equal to the fact they score 10.9 PPGF. I'd still take San Antonio over the Suns in the playoff series, RIGHT NOW, however, I don't think I'd take the Mavs.

Thats just my take on the situation.

Ajacied
12-20-2004, 04:44 AM
The Pistons are barely .500. Don't insult the Suns like that. And the Spurs proved they don't belong on the same court as the Sonics and the Suns beat that same Sonics team.

I'm insulting the Suns when I say that they have yet to play the defending Champions to prove their game? The Pistons have been through a lot this year, don't let their record fool you.

No one is scared by the Suns untill they know how to play defense.

Fish on The Sand
12-20-2004, 04:47 AM
I'm insulting the Suns when I say that they have yet to play the defending Champions to prove their game? The Pistons have been through a lot this year, don't let their record fool you.

No one is scared by the Suns untill they know how to play defense.
its funny you say that, seeing as they play good defence, you just look at the sexy category, which is points. Teams can't get into any rhythm, and in terms of scoring, teams have one of the lowest fg% in the league against the suns. I just don't get it. Nobody fears them? :lol The team is on pace to win over 70 games, they are just nuts. They are an unstoppable force, and as long as people are ignorant such as you about their defence, they will continue to thrash opponents. The defending champs might not even make the playoffs, so yes it is insulting to compare them to the Suns.

Belgian Fan
12-20-2004, 04:48 AM
its funny you say that, seeing as they play good defence, you just look at the sexy category, which is points. Teams can't get into any rhythm, and in terms of scoring, teams have one of the lowest fg% in the league against the suns. I just don't get it. Nobody fears them? :lol The team is on pace to win over 70 games, they are just nuts. They are an unstoppable force, and as long as people are ignorant such as you about their defence, they will continue to thrash opponents. The defending champs might not even make the playoffs, so yes it is insulting to compare them to the Suns.

Whatever :)

RoyIsALegend*
12-20-2004, 05:12 AM
The Miami Heat are the best team in the NBA.

Fish on The Sand
12-20-2004, 05:13 AM
The Miami Heat are the best team in the NBA.
The Heat are simple products of playing in the east. 15-2 within the conference, 4-3 against the west.

Chaos
12-20-2004, 10:32 AM
its funny you say that, seeing as they play good defence, you just look at the sexy category, which is points. Teams can't get into any rhythm, and in terms of scoring, teams have one of the lowest fg% in the league against the suns. I just don't get it. Nobody fears them? :lol The team is on pace to win over 70 games, they are just nuts. They are an unstoppable force, and as long as people are ignorant such as you about their defence, they will continue to thrash opponents. The defending champs might not even make the playoffs, so yes it is insulting to compare them to the Suns.

You mean the one category that actually matters? Tell me, when was the las time a team won the game because they gave up a lower fg% than they scored? Believe it or not, they count wins and losses based on who scores more POINTS, not fg%. The Mavs 2 years ago were on pace to win 70 games. That didn't happen. You know why? Because Nash ran out of gas late in the year. It will happen again this year.

Fish on The Sand
12-20-2004, 05:04 PM
You mean the one category that actually matters? Tell me, when was the las time a team won the game because they gave up a lower fg% than they scored? Believe it or not, they count wins and losses based on who scores more POINTS, not fg%. The Mavs 2 years ago were on pace to win 70 games. That didn't happen. You know why? Because Nash ran out of gas late in the year. It will happen again this year.
Nash isn't playing anywhere close to the minutes he did in Dallas, and the Suns are much better defencivly than anybody on this board gives them credit for.

Chaos
12-20-2004, 05:09 PM
Nash isn't playing anywhere close to the minutes he did in Dallas, and the Suns are much better defencivly than anybody on this board gives them credit for.

Nash is playing 34.2 minutes per game this year(the 2nd highest number in his career). Last year, he played 33.5. The year before, 33.1. the year before, 34.6. He's playing more this year than either the past 2 seasons, and barely less than 3 years ago. But you're right, he isn't playing "anywhere close to the minutes he did in Dallas" :lol.

Fish on The Sand
12-20-2004, 05:16 PM
Nash is playing 34.2 minutes per game this year(the 2nd highest number in his career). Last year, he played 33.5. The year before, 33.1. the year before, 34.6. He's playing more this year than either the past 2 seasons, and barely less than 3 years ago. But you're right, he isn't playing "anywhere close to the minutes he did in Dallas" :lol.
well, he seems to be playing less, I read somewhere Nash is being rested lots, but if you burn yourself out on less than 35 mins a game you have problems, real stars should be able to do more than that.

Chaos
12-20-2004, 05:16 PM
well, he seems to be playing less, I read somewhere Nash is being rested lots, but if you burn yourself out on less than 35 mins a game you have problems, real stars should be able to do more than that.

He's burned himself out the past 3 years playing 33-34 minutes a game. Now maybe you will see why I have been saying it will happen again this year.

Fish on The Sand
12-20-2004, 05:19 PM
He's burned himself out the past 3 years playing 33-34 minutes a game. Now maybe you will see why I have been saying it will happen again this year.
well, luckily the Suns can overcome Nash, they are just so good up front that Barbossa could come in. He maybe wouldn't score like Nash, or provide the flash, but all he has to do is get it to the open man, because they all average 15 ppg or more. Well not quite 15 but damn close.

Chaos
12-20-2004, 05:23 PM
well, luckily the Suns can overcome Nash, they are just so good up front that Barbossa could come in. He maybe wouldn't score like Nash, or provide the flash, but all he has to do is get it to the open man, because they all average 15 ppg or more. Well not quite 15 but damn close.

Nash is the guy that makes that team go. When he wears down later in the season, it will have a very noticible effect on their play.

Fish on The Sand
12-20-2004, 05:53 PM
Nash is the guy that makes that team go. When he wears down later in the season, it will have a very noticible effect on their play.
well, it won't be the same, but the Suns are very capable of winning without Nash. Barbossa can do it and Johnson is very underrated as a ball distributor.

Gibsons Finest
12-20-2004, 06:06 PM
I don't necessarily think that Phoenix is the best team right now, or that they will be in the future, but I think they are far better defensively than those old Mavs teams IMO. Stevie Nash is not good at defense at all, but the major difference is down in the post IMO, I don't think Nowitzki and the various other guys they started beside him are nearly the defensive players that Stoudemire and Marion are, and Amare is still young, he can only get better on defense IMO. I like Nowitzki, but his defense is just atrocious, and Nash is just as bad, Phoenix needed offensive help, they got it in Nash, Dallas needed defense and they got it by having anybody but Nash.

I also wouldn't make that big a deal about how much Phoenix scores, they allow 97.6 PPGA right now, 18th in the league, not great but not the end of the world, Dallas is 9th in the league with 94.4 PPGA, now Dallas is better on D, but I'm not sure if the fact they allow 3.2 less PPGA is equal to the fact they score 10.9 PPGF. I'd still take San Antonio over the Suns in the playoff series, RIGHT NOW, however, I don't think I'd take the Mavs.

Thats just my take on the situation.

Good point with the low-post thing, and this doesn't exactly make any case to say they're just as bad on d as last year's version of the Mavs, but, Dirk doesn't always defend in the low post. Nellie tends to have Dirk covering the outside shooters. That's a main reason Dirk doesn't get alot of boards.

kruezer
12-20-2004, 06:23 PM
Good point with the low-post thing, and this doesn't exactly make any case to say they're just as bad on d as last year's version of the Mavs, but, Dirk doesn't always defend in the low post. Nellie tends to have Dirk covering the outside shooters. That's a main reason Dirk doesn't get alot of boards.
Thats a very good point, I've noticed that a lot more this year, much like the Raptors seem to do with Chris Bosh often. I think it comes from having Dampier and Josh Howard, Nellie has more flexibility down low now, when he was trotting out Walker/Jamison/Bradley/etc down low, it wasn't exactly helping hide Dirk's deficiences, I'd probably say Dirk isn't as big a problem as Nash as well, Dirk can d-up occasionally, but Nash really was hidden by Finley IMO, who is a very underrated defensive player, its just that he was playing for two guys and looked horrible because of it.

Fish on The Sand
12-20-2004, 11:18 PM
Suns were less than impressive against the Nuggets tonight, but were finishing up 3 road games in 4 days, including a very grueling matchup with the Sonics. 107-105 win with a buzzer beating tip by Richardson to finish the game. Suns now stand at 22-3

Fish on The Sand
12-22-2004, 07:27 PM
I just looked it up and the Suns are on pace to beat the Bulls record of 72 wins.

Chaos
12-22-2004, 07:54 PM
I just looked it up and the Suns are on pace to beat the Bulls record of 72 wins.

And a guy who hits 2 HR on opening day is on pace for 324 HR for a season. Once Nash wears down(and it WILL happen) and they start playing some teams who know how to play defense AND can score a bit, those wins will start to dry up.

Fish on The Sand
12-22-2004, 07:56 PM
And a guy who hits 2 HR on opening day is on pace for 324 HR for a season. Once Nash wears down(and it WILL happen) and they start playing some teams who know how to play defense AND can score a bit, those wins will start to dry up.
In all fairness we are passed the quarter way mark and the Suns have shown no signs of slowing down.

Chaos
12-22-2004, 08:17 PM
In all fairness we are passed the quarter way mark and the Suns have shown no signs of slowing down.

1. They haven't played anyone yet(exaggeration, but they have had a fairly easy schedule thus far).
2. Nash isnt THAT weak that he wears down after 25 games. Just wait until later in the season. He's playing more minutes this year than in either of the past 2 seasons with the Mavs, and he wore down late in the year in each of those seasons.

Ajacied
12-29-2004, 03:17 AM
Spurs owned the Suns who were far from impressive..

The Spurs only played Duncan 29 minutes (16 points (7-9) - 12 rebounds - 6 assists - 5 blocks) and only had 2 starters played 30 minutes. Bench contributed with 41 points while the Spurs held the Suns to .397 shooting.

Suns should expect these kind of games once the playoffs arrive. High flying, spectacular offensive team, fun to watch for sure, but not nearly as effective..

Belgian Fan
12-29-2004, 03:22 AM
That was to be expected.

The Suns can continue to dazzle for a while in the Regular season (it's fun to watch) but with these guys the playoffs aren't their cup of tea, sadly enough. Hopefully they can get through a round or maybe even two with a friendly playoff bracket.


(wich is exactly what everyone's been saying in htis thread for weeks but wich we all have to repeat a thousend times because a certain Mr. Fots joined the debate ;))

Fish on The Sand
12-29-2004, 03:34 AM
That was to be expected.

The Suns can continue to dazzle for a while in the Regular season (it's fun to watch) but with these guys the playoffs aren't their cup of tea, sadly enough. Hopefully they can get through a round or maybe even two with a friendly playoff bracket.


(wich is exactly what everyone's been saying in htis thread for weeks but wich we all have to repeat a thousend times because a certain Mr. Fots joined the debate ;))
if you'll notice, I started it :D

Ajacied
12-31-2004, 04:07 AM
The Spurs defeated Portland in Portland today by as much as 34 points. They did it without Manu Ginobili. Rookie Beno Udrih continues to impress, scoring 12 points (4/5 - 2/2 3pnt), dishing out 10 dimes while grabbing 2 rebounds and not comitting any fouls or turnovers in just 20 minutes. Bench had 45 points in total.

Lessy
01-01-2005, 09:07 PM
Spurs, although the Suns are no fluke. I expect the Sonics to come down to earth in the seasons second half.