Playoff Seedings Travesty

I'll preface this by saying I am a fan of neither team being discussed.

The NHL truly needs to do something about playoff seeding. If they want to make sure a team from each division makes the playoffs fine but seed them by points. It's absolutely ridiculous that Florida gets a better seed than Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh finishes with 14 more points, a .622 win % compared to Florida's .463 (not even a .500 club) and a +61 goal differential compared to Florida's -24. In addition, with one game left to go it is possible Pittsburgh may finish 1 point shy of the top total in the entire league.

This almost defines stupid.

Yea, it is kinda dumb. The NFL had a similar problem with a division winner had a home playoff game with a losing record. They can probably safely list the division winners plus one other team in the top 4 based upon points, which would limit the unfairness of the system.

As Todd Bertuzzi would say: "It is what it is."

As Todd Bertuzzi would say: "It is what it is."

...yet it doesn't HAVE to be.

It doesn't bother me.

Hmmm...I don't think I've ever seen this argument on HF before.

In the end, the best team wins.

The best way to correct this problem would be to eliminate SO win and OT loss points. The extra points thrown around by both dilute the standings and cause 'point inflation.' They could keep the shootout, I guess, but use it only for tiebreakers in the standings at the end of the season or something.

I know the East is the focused-upon conference for this, but I for one am pissed that either Nashville or Detroit will be sent packing early due to similar problems in the West.

The message to NHL teams is clear: Win your division or ****

I'm fine with that.

In the end, the best team wins.

Unfortunately it makes the 4-5 seeds death seeds every year. To win the Cup from that position is extremely tough. The whole point of playing so hard for 82 is to secure yourself an advantage. 1 point out of 1st overall and light years better in every aspect and you don't get any advantage?

That stinks.

http://download.lardlad.com/framegrabs/9F13/64.jpg

This is a travesty!!

Yea, it is kinda dumb. The NFL had a similar problem with a division winner had a home playoff game with a losing record. They can probably safely list the division winners plus one other team in the top 4 based upon points, which would limit the unfairness of the system.

The problem with this is that instead of Pittsburgh losing out, its now Philadelpha, or New Jersey. Rather than help anyone, it just makes a different team complain.

It's dumb, sure, but I won't be losing any sleep over it.

In the end, the best team wins.

No. There is a thing called variance.

Boston and Vancouver both almost lost in the first round last season.

I know the East is the focused-upon conference for this, but I for one am pissed that either Nashville or Detroit will be sent packing early due to similar problems in the West.

Every-time this thread has been made it is always the SE that is the target. Never the Pacific.

The problem with this is that instead of Pittsburgh losing out, its now Philadelpha, or New Jersey. Rather than help anyone, it just makes a different team complain.

Well those teams already got bumped down a spot in the current system too. In the new system, they would have had a shot of avoiding the bump by surpassing Pittsburgh.

(I understand that someone will always get shafted if the 3rd seed is especially terrible)

I'll preface this by saying I am a fan of neither team being discussed.

The NHL truly needs to do something about playoff seeding. If they want to make sure a team from each division makes the playoffs fine but seed them by points. It's absolutely ridiculous that Florida gets a better seed than Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh finishes with 14 more points, a .622 win % compared to Florida's .463 (not even a .500 club) and a +61 goal differential compared to Florida's -24. In addition, with one game left to go it is possible Pittsburgh may finish 1 point shy of the top total in the entire league.

This almost defines stupid.

so suggest a solution, how would you make the seeding fair but still give you a reward for winning your division?

I know the East is the focused-upon conference for this, but I for one am pissed that either Nashville or Detroit will be sent packing early due to similar problems in the West.

One of them, at least, will be sent packing at some point.

Look... Any team remaining can beat any team.

Vancouver finished first. And what do they get for their hard work? maybe the SJ Sharks.
One could argue they'd have a better route to the cup if they finished 6th.
Personally, as a Wings fan, I'd prefer Nashville in Round 1 to San Jose.

I love that you waited until we won our first division title to post this.

How about a "Congrats Florida Panthers" instead?

I never tire of these threads.

Considering how hard the Panthers got screwed in the Crosby draft (docked 2 balls) and the tiebreaker vs Montreal two years ago (tie in points for #8 seed but lost in tiebreaker due to shootout loss), I'm going to take this #3 seed and consider it karmic payback.

I actually think the sad thing here is that one of the Flyers or Pens will be out even though either could go deep with a different seeding. I think both teams are fantastic teams in the conference (even though I admit I hate the Pens and like the Flyers when they aren't playing the Bruins).

But in the end part of having divisions and having them play extra games within the division is that the division winners get to have home ice.

Still stinks that either the Flyers or Pens are going home no matter how well they play. Going to be a brutal match up IMO though and whichever team survives the first round is going to be pretty battered and bruised for the 2nd.

It doesn't bother me.

I know the East is the focused-upon conference for this, but I for one am pissed that either Nashville or Detroit will be sent packing early due to similar problems in the West.

It`s not like the 3rd seed in the West is getting any advantage. They have to get by the Black Hawks, not exactly an easy out there.

You gotta beat them all to win

So play a balanced schedule, travel as much as everyone else, or stop whining. This system was the payoff to have the nice cozy northeast divisions. Deal with it.

I have no problem with a division leader getting a spot in the playoffs. But I do agree with the OP that seeing in the top 3 regardless of points is a bit ridiculous. Grant any division leader a spot in the playoffs based off of points. If out of the entire top 8 they have the least points then simply seed them 8th.

This is unfair to those teams in the hunt on the fringe to make it into the post season... But there is no way for it to be perfect and its more far to bump a fringe team out, rather than have ridiculous seedings at the top. You should be rewarded for winning your division, but it should not be with home ice.

Florida won the division. Deserves the 3 seed. This system has been in place for years. All this whinging is turning me, a Jets fan, into a hardcore Florida Panthers fan for these playoffs.

I actually like these kinds of rule quirks that people think are "unfair"

Each team has its own unique path to follow and the best teams find a way to deal with whatever weird situation they get into. Just like the real world!

Every-time this thread has been made it is always the SE that is the target. Never the Pacific.

...or the Northeast. Apparently the Bruins deserve to be second.

Only way to really make playoff seeding fair is to have completely balanced schedules for all teams, one "conference", top 16 (or whatever) go in.

Everything else is a hack, and accomplishes nothing except changing whose ox is getting gored.

Thank god, I was getting a bit nervous because we havent seen a seedings thread in a few days now :shakehead

I have no problem with divisional winners getting higher seeds. However I also do support another way of doing things and going the 1 vs 16 route like the old days to give us some really interesting, fresh and new playoff matchups. Heck I wish EA would give us the opportunity to organize divisions and conferences the way we want to in their games if we can't have it in real life.

I'll preface this by saying I am a fan of neither team being discussed.

The NHL truly needs to do something about playoff seeding. If they want to make sure a team from each division makes the playoffs fine but seed them by points. It's absolutely ridiculous that Florida gets a better seed than Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh finishes with 14 more points, a .622 win % compared to Florida's .463 (not even a .500 club) and a +61 goal differential compared to Florida's -24. In addition, with one game left to go it is possible Pittsburgh may finish 1 point shy of the top total in the entire league.

This almost defines stupid.

And both Pitt and Philly finish ahead of the Bruins as well, yet you dont bring them up? Give it a rest with this crap. You dont like how it works, go picket for Bettman's job.

I read these threads as "uhuh a team I thought sucked at the beginning of the year won their division and tool the 3rd seed. Let me blame the system so I don't feel stupid"

Stop *****ing and win your damn division! Every team knows the rules going in. If you don't like it, then either play better in the regular season OR win the Cup and prove the seeds don't matter.

I would bet if Washington would of won the division tonight, this thread wouldn't of been made, or those other 500 threads on this subject too.

No. There is a thing called variance.

Boston and Vancouver both almost lost in the first round last season.

But the best teams did win.

I'm fine with it. There should be importance in winning your division.


People have complained about this for years, and claim that winning the division should only guarantee your spot in the playoffs. But it completely devalues division play. Divisions can be bad, but they've never been bad enough where a division winner would have otherwise missed the playoffs.

How about the fact that Chicago has more points than Phoenix, yet Phoenix has home ice? XD

Also, side note. Florida IS a .500 team. .500 would indicate that a team has acquired 50% of the possible points. An 82 point season is a .500 season under the NHL's point system.

I dont mind giving the division winner home ice in the first round, but after that it should be determined by points.

Also, side note. Florida IS a .500 team. .500 would indicate that a team has acquired 50% of the possible points. An 82 point season is a .500 season under the NHL's point system.

Yeah, it's hilarious that people try to add OTLs into losses and just count a W/L record. There is NO winning percentage in the NHL. There's only point percentage. Panthers are a .580 team, and could be 'seen' as a lot better if they could close out some extra sessions...

Unfortunately it makes the 4-5 seeds death seeds every year. To win the Cup from that position is extremely tough. The whole point of playing so hard for 82 is to secure yourself an advantage. 1 point out of 1st overall and light years better in every aspect and you don't get any advantage?

That stinks.

Should have won their division then. It's their own fault they didn't finish first.

As a Pens fan, I'll say we should have won our division if we wanted a higher seed. The Rangers gave us every chance to do it down the stretch and we blew it.

Congrats Panthers

where is the bruins hate pens fan? Surely they deserve as much blame for this "Travesty" as Florida. But unfortunately we exist in a league with divisions. Is pittsburgh in the Southeast? No. Is pittsburgh in the Northeast? No.

Deal with it. If the penguins truly are a great team they should get through any team in the league regardless of home ice advantage or not.

I understand wanting to reward the division winners with home ice.

I would propose some sort of hybrid system where the top divisions winners are guaranteed to be seeded somewhere in 1-4...while still seeding based on points

This year would be a great example,

1. NYR - Atlantic
2. PIT -
3. BOS - NE
4. FLA - SE
--------
5. PHI
6. NJD
7. WASH
8. OTT

1. VAN - NW
2. STL - CEN
3. NASH
4. PHX - PAC
--------
5. DET
6. CHI
7. SJS
8. LAK


Thoughts? This is far from a solid/bulletproof plan so feel free to chew it up...I know you will :)

It's really stupid that in both conferences there's a first round matchup of the 3rd and 4th best teams. The NHL should eliminate this possibility, while maintaining some value to winning a division. The proper balance is to guarantee the division winner the 4th seed (and home ice in the first round), but nothing more.

Changes would then be:

NJ/PIT
PHI/FLA

CHI/NSH
DET/PHX

Much more sensible.

They tried to do something about it for next season and it got rejected by the NHLPA...

The problem is the 2nd round matchup, for example if the Rangers are upset and the Bruins, Panthers, Pens, Senators advance, then Pens should have the home ice in that 2nd round. The NBA does it that way and the NHL should do the same. The 1st round I think you have to accept that this comes around when a weak division exists.

Meh.

As one of the 'aggrieved' parties, I could care less.

a) it may not matter at all. It would not shock me in the least to see the Rangers lose their first round matchup. And I have seen far too often teams' fans get all excited about this so called perfect matchup that bites them in the ass and eliminates them.

b) it matters at all at best for one round, after which things sort themselves out pretty well usually.

So if we were 'screwed' for one round, well good teams deal with it and teams that do not deserve to go home anyways.

It's really stupid that in both conferences there's a first round matchup of the 3rd and 4th best teams. The NHL should eliminate this possibility, while maintaining some value to winning a division. The proper balance is to guarantee the division winner the 4th seed (and home ice in the first round), but nothing more.

Changes would then be:

NJ/PIT
PHI/FLA

CHI/NSH
DET/PHX

Much more sensible.

What do you mean 3rd and 4th best teams? Pens are 2nd in East and Flyers are 3rd plus Devils are tied with 4th most points and they have to play each other 6 times along with the 1st seeded Rangers. You can make a strong case that the top 4 teams in the East are all in the same Division. I don't mind each Division get a team in but it is not fair they get home ice over teams that played better despite the much tougher schedule.

Stop *****ing and win your damn division! Every team knows the rules going in. If you don't like it, then either play better in the regular season OR win the Cup and prove the seeds don't matter.

I'm trying my hardest to just let the whole thing role off my shoulders...but this is such a ******** argument.

The fourth placed team in the Atlantic would have easily won the Southeast Division crown. Some teams have it harder and some have it easier, we can't pretend that all things are just equal.

If a team falls 1 point short of first overall in the entire league it's pretty hard to justify them being below a team with 13 fewer wins in the standings.



It is what it is, but it shouldn't be. I'm absolutely fine with the division winners getting an automatic berth to the playoffs, that's the way it should be, but the seeding thing is stupid. It's not Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, or New Jersey's fault they play in a behemoth division.

Pretty sure this type of system is used in almost all profesional sports at least in NA and I don't see the issue with it. Florida is a case of the point system needing to be fixed and not division winners being 1-3.


How about the fact that Chicago has more points than Phoenix, yet Phoenix has home ice? XD

Also, side note. Florida IS a .500 team. .500 would indicate that a team has acquired 50% of the possible points. An 82 point season is a .500 season under the NHL's point system.

Yeah, it's hilarious that people try to add OTLs into losses and just count a W/L record. There is NO winning percentage in the NHL. There's only point percentage. Panthers are a .580 team, and could be 'seen' as a lot better if they could close out some extra sessions...
Funny, the third column disappears in the playoffs.

The NBA system is better and the sad part is, it would be so simple to implement too but this league is so painfully stubborn. If you gaurantee the division winner at least the 4th seed, you could have:

1. New York
2. Boston
3. Pittsburgh
4. Florida
5. Philadelphia
6. New Jersey
7. Washington
8. Ottawa

Most of the time in cases like this, a strong team like Pittsburgh won't be punished by being matched up against a stronger first round opponent. I'm also surprised how people chastise those who complain about the current system. It's a legitimate complaint and with only a minor tweak, the seedings can be vastly improved and more balanced but no... let's stick with the status quo.

i was unaware until recently that the draft lottery is not based on points but on divisional seedings. For bubble teams that win their divisions such as florida this more than makes up for the "imbalance" of divisional standings.

Considering Florida is still a team in rebuild getting a draft pick 24th could have a huge impact on the franchise moving forward compared to 15-18th.

Funny, the third column disappears in the playoffs.

So does the 4 on 4 overtime and the shootout. It's not the same.

i was unaware until recently that the draft lottery is not based on points but on divisional seedings. For bubble teams that win their divisions such as florida this more than makes up for the "imbalance" of divisional standings.

Considering Florida is still a team in rebuild getting a draft pick 24th could have a huge impact on the franchise moving forward compared to 15-18th.
Draft pick seeding is based on playoff results. I'll give you a break since you're new to the playoffs when this was changed ;)

i was unaware until recently that the draft lottery is not based on points but on divisional seedings. For bubble teams that win their divisions such as florida this more than makes up for the "imbalance" of divisional standings.

Considering Florida is still a team in rebuild getting a draft pick 24th could have a huge impact on the franchise moving forward compared to 15-18th.

?

Draft lottery only applies to teams not in the playoffs.

The other 16 spots are based on team's records in the playoffs and where they are eliminated.

(Lottery winner can only move up 4 spots if they win the lottery... so only those worst 5 teams have a shot at the #1 pick... so say the Wild win the lottery they would move to 3rd from 7th and push down everyone except CBJ and EDM)

In the end, the best team wins.

Actually, in the end the team that gets some luck and stays healthy usually wins.

If you're this good, prove that in the playoffs! Lower seed is NOT a problem for a great seed. The only unfairness is that fifth seed gets tougher opponent than sixth.

Oh it's this thread again. You couldn't just bring up one of the 10 previous thread from the past two weeks?!

I love that people always use the Panthers, and don't mention Pheonix or Boston too. Haters gonna hate, as always. These are the rules of the NHL, deal with it!

It makes good sense to me. Division champs get the top 3 seeds...otherwise why have divisions at all?

Saying that team X would have a better record if they were in Division Q is pure speculation. Win your Division, take your top 3 seed.

Hello thread in which people ***** and moan about the seeding system again, how are you doing today?

Cool. Cool.

Alright thread that has been talked about a billion times already, see ya next year, maybe during the summer if I'm (un)lucky.

Seriously though... Again?

doesn't bother me at all

I hate the system because it doesn't make sense and as a Flyers fan, I hate having to play Pittsburgh. But, if the Flyers were to win the Cup, they'd likely have to play the Pens at some point, so it really doesn't matter too much. You have to beat good competition in the playoffs, sooner or later.

Personally, I want to go back to 4the divisions with the first 2 rounds being a divisional playoff.

It makes good sense to me. Division champs get the top 3 seeds...otherwise why have divisions at all?

Saying that team X would have a better record if they were in Division Q is pure speculation. Win your Division, take your top 3 seed.

Pretty much.

Also Divions shift in strength/power all the time as teams go through cycles... ya right now the Atlantic is kicking ass and taking names... it wasn't so long ago the Northeast was figured to be one of the better divisions.

I actually like these kinds of rule quirks that people think are "unfair"

Each team has its own unique path to follow and the best teams find a way to deal with whatever weird situation they get into. Just like the real world!

You couldn't have said it any better. There's no way anyone is going to win a 7-game series for being worse. And whether game 7 is at home or on the road, won't matter one bit either. Just ask the Sedins. :)

NHL has bigger issues.

One idea would be to make the division leader garuntea a spot in the po's but not necessarily a top 3 one.

The NBA system is better and the sad part is, it would be so simple to implement too but this league is so painfully stubborn. If you gaurantee the division winner at least the 4th seed, you could have:

1. New York
2. Boston
3. Pittsburgh
4. Florida
5. Philadelphia
6. New Jersey
7. Washington
8. Ottawa

Most of the time in cases like this, a strong team like Pittsburgh won't be punished by being matched up against a stronger first round opponent. I'm also surprised how people chastise those who complain about the current system. It's a legitimate complaint and with only a minor tweak, the seedings can be vastly improved and more balanced but no... let's stick with the status quo.

This seems even more unfair to me. Why have the Panthers been moved down a position for having less points than the Penguins yet the Bruins remain second? The number of people who just want to complain about the Panthers being in the playoffs or getting home ice is ridiculous especially when they ignore the Bruins and Coyotes who are also getting a better seeding than their points would suggest. However, this is the system all the teams agreed and a slight adjustment in the seedings isn't going to hand the Stanley Cup to a team that doesn't earn it so doesn't make much of a difference.

This seems even more unfair to me. Why have the Panthers been moved down a position for having less points than the Penguins yet the Bruins remain second? The number of people who just want to complain about the Panthers being in the playoffs or getting home ice is ridiculous especially when they ignore the Bruins and Coyotes who are also getting a better seeding than their points would suggest. However, this is the system all the teams agreed and a slight adjustment in the seedings isn't going to hand the Stanley Cup to a team that doesn't earn it so doesn't make much of a difference.

I'd like to think he made a mistake when he did that. That system would be fair if it had Pittsburgh 2nd and Boston 3rd.

I'm trying my hardest to just let the whole thing role off my shoulders...but this is such a ******** argument.

The fourth placed team in the Atlantic would have easily won the Southeast Division crown. Some teams have it harder and some have it easier, we can't pretend that all things are just equal.

If a team falls 1 point short of first overall in the entire league it's pretty hard to justify them being below a team with 13 fewer wins in the standings.



It is what it is, but it shouldn't be. I'm absolutely fine with the division winners getting an automatic berth to the playoffs, that's the way it should be, but the seeding thing is stupid. It's not Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, or New Jersey's fault they play in a behemoth division.

I bet you are one of the first to cry foul when someone tries to break up the cozy NE and Atlantic division. How dare someone take away your rivalries and light travel schedule. You wanted a powerhouse division and you got it. Now deal with the consequences.

The NBA had this same problem a few years ago and did something about it, not guaranteeing the division winner a top-3 spot. In baseball, this happens all the time with the Wild Card team finishing with more wins than one of the division champions. Same with football. I agree that it's dumb.

Bottom line is, the NHL will eventually realign into four divisions, or conferences. This won't matter two years from now.

Why not just make it so the division winners get an automatic ticket to the playoffs, but no guaranteed top 3 seeding?

Why not just make it so the division winners get an automatic ticket to the playoffs, but no guaranteed top 3 seeding?

It's been this way for, what...18 years now. And seriously, if/when PHX and Florida lose in the first round, will anyone care?


funny thing is, if the nhl switched to back to divisional playoffs the same thread would appear.

The NBA had this same problem a few years ago and did something about it, not guaranteeing the division winner a top-3 spot. In baseball, this happens all the time with the Wild Card team finishing with more wins than one of the division champions. Same with football. I agree that it's dumb.

Bottom line is, the NHL will eventually realign into four divisions, or conferences. This won't matter two years from now.

yeah but they are still guaranteed a top 4 spot iirc, so it doesnt really solve much

I'm fine with rewarding the three divisional champs in each conference the automatic top three seeds in the playoffs. If you don't like it, well tough. They were the best teams in their division and teams with superior records but failed to win their division didn't.

And if you really are a better team, then you should be able to smack the others even with them having home ice advantage in a best of seven series.

so suggest a solution, how would you make the seeding fair but still give you a reward for winning your division?

If the schedule format remains, 6 against your division, 4 against your conference, and 18 total against the other conference, then they can only follow the NBA format of assuring each division winner of home ice in the 1st round, so if a 2nd place team has more points than a division winner, then can get seeded higher.

So, for this season, Nashville in the West would get seeded #3, Phoenix #4, Detroit #5, Chicago #6. It would then be Nashville vs Chicago and Phoenix vs Detroit.

In the East, Pens would move to #2 since they have more points than Boston and Florida. Pens would face the Caps, Bruins would face the Devils, Panthers would face the Flyers.

You can't just give the division winner a guaranteed playoff spot like some of these old fools on radio and tv have suggested. If they do that, why even have divisions? Why play 4 teams 6 teams each? What's the point of it?

If you want to base the conference on total points only, then take those 8 extra division games and instead play them against the other conference, so that you play 11 teams in the other conference home and away, and 4 of them either home or away. That leaves each team playing 56 games within their conference and the remaining 26 against the other conference.

Since the NHL wants to go down to 4 divisions, I don't think they will opt for option 2. If they have to play 1 more season with the current 6 division format, they would only opt for option 1, like how the NBA does it.

http://www.picshag.com/pics/052011/they-dont-think-it-be-like-it-is-but-it-do.jpg

I don't mind the fact that the division winners get the 3 seed, but I also think they should be moved down the draft order. They shouldn't get the 3rd seed but still get the best playoff draft pick if they lose in the first round.

Draft pick seeding is based on playoff results. I'll give you a break since you're new to the playoffs when this was changed ;)

I think he's trying to say that after the conference finalists, the division winners who didn't advance to the conference finals get the next lowest picks. i.e., conference finalists get picks #27-30, then the division winners get the next picks from #26 on depending on how many didn't make the conference finals. Not that there's a draft lottery for all 30 teams.

I don't mind the fact that the division winners get the 3 seed, but I also think they should be moved down the draft order. They shouldn't get the 3rd seed but still get the best playoff draft pick if they lose in the first round.

They don't, see the post directly below yours. Division winners have to pay the price in the draft.

Who cares about the ****ing draft, this is the playoffs. You play the game for this, not draft seeding.

Who cares about the ****ing draft, this is the playoffs. You play the game for this, not draft seeding.

Panthersflames1 was just making the point that there are drawbacks to winning a division, so that makes up in part for getting an "easier" first round matchup.

On a somewhat related note, isn't this the first Season in quite some time in which the actual top-16 best records in the League made the Playoffs? Generally there's a 9th place team in one Conference with a better record than the 8th place team in the other Conference.

This year the NHL Playoffs has the Top-16 best records in the League. That's a definite positive!

Yeah I meant to replace Pittsburgh and Boston.

The standings would read as follows:

1. New York
2. Pittsburgh
3. Boston
4. Florida
5. Philadelphia
6. New Jersey
7. Washington
8. Ottawa

Panthersflames1 was just making the point that there are drawbacks to winning a division, so that makes up in part for getting an "easier" first round matchup.

I'll gladly trade the slight draft inconvenience for a better seed.

1 > 2 > 3 > 6 > 4 > 5 > 7 > 8

I'll preface this by saying I am a fan of neither team being discussed.

The NHL truly needs to do something about playoff seeding. If they want to make sure a team from each division makes the playoffs fine but seed them by points. It's absolutely ridiculous that Florida gets a better seed than Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh finishes with 14 more points, a .622 win % compared to Florida's .463 (not even a .500 club) and a +61 goal differential compared to Florida's -24. In addition, with one game left to go it is possible Pittsburgh may finish 1 point shy of the top total in the entire league.

This almost defines stupid.

It's simple, win your division.

The best way to correct this problem would be to eliminate SO win and OT loss points. The extra points thrown around by both dilute the standings and cause 'point inflation.' They could keep the shootout, I guess, but use it only for tiebreakers in the standings at the end of the season or something.

Completely OT: That episode of Futurama was on today :laugh:

Yeah I meant to replace Pittsburgh and Boston.

The standings would read as follows:

1. New York
2. Pittsburgh
3. Boston
4. Florida
5. Philadelphia
6. New Jersey
7. Washington
8. Ottawa

That is what I've been suggesting. Simply guarantee a Division winner Home-Ice (a top-4 seed), and you slot the team with the best better record in the Conference into its appropriate slot based on that record.

In the West:
1. Van
2. StL
3. Nas
4. Pho
5. Det
6. Chi
7. SJ
8. LA

If the Pens don't like being in 4th they should have beaten the Rangers one more time this year. Win your division or face any of the potential consequences.

That makes no sense Canuckaholic. If that were to happen, then you'd just have the Rangers get punished. Nothing gets solved either way.

The system is broken. It can be fixed with a minor tweak and I'm just surprised at their refusal to do so.

Nothing needs to be fixed. If you don't get owned by the Islanders's in back to back games, guess what, you're in first. If you can't manage that, you deserve your seeding.

The travesty argument is moot because no matter how you re-seed, you're going to have a matchup in both conferences where both teams are 100+ points. Winning your division has a reward, and if you don't, well that's just tough beans if you get an unfavourable seeding. 4-5 matchups should be teams that are basically equal. This year's 6 seeds both having far superior records to the 3 seeds is an unusual occurrence.

perfectly fine with the top 3 spot for a division winner. It gives meaning to the divisions. just a guaranteed playoff spot isn't enough to me. The Atlantic wants their division for the travel and rivalries. therefore, they can accept this one downside.

I never tire of these threads.

Considering how hard the Panthers got screwed in the Crosby draft (docked 2 balls) and the tiebreaker vs Montreal two years ago (tie in points for #8 seed but lost in tiebreaker due to shootout loss), I'm going to take this #3 seed and consider it karmic payback.

this :D

It's simple, win your division.

Too much logic.:laugh:

Its Okay there will be a re-alignment soon.

stop crying over the divisions, if pittsburg wanted a better seed they could have won their division, but they didnt. dont blame florida because tampa sucked this year along with washington

It makes good sense to me. Division champs get the top 3 seeds...otherwise why have divisions at all?

Saying that team X would have a better record if they were in Division Q is pure speculation. Win your Division, take your top 3 seed.
The point of using seedings in a tournament is to keep the top teams from facing each other in the early rounds.

If the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the conference have to play each other in the first round, that pretty much defeats the purpose of using seedings. They might as well just draw opponents out of a hat.

Saying "too bad, win your division" doesn't change the issue since then the rangers would drop to 2nd place, and we'd still have a 2 vs 3 matchup in the first round.

If the Pens can not make it past Philly, then they do not deserve the cup anyways. You get dealt a hand and good teams deal, pretenders do not. It is like people who whine about penalties (even before the series starts, heh), or about injuries, or a bad call in the game. You have your chances, you have your opportunities. Put on your big boy pants and deal, or go home.

If the Pens can not make it past Philly, then they do not deserve the cup anyways. You get dealt a hand and good teams deal, pretenders do not. It is like people who whine about penalties (even before the series starts, heh), or about injuries, or a bad call in the game. You have your chances, you have your opportunities. Put on your big boy pants and deal, or go home.

Getting by a tough 1st Round opponent generally primes a team for a long Playoff run. In that regard, having to play each other in the 1st Round shouldn't be seen as a bad thing.

You gotta beat them all to win

I think you have to beat less than 25% of them to win it all

A severely injured team has less of a chance at winning. People who deny that are idiots. It's like someone who lives in the mountains being told by someone who lives on the prairies that hiking is the same in both places, and they're whiners if they disagree. lol

NJ doesn't have home ice advantage over Florida and I don't mind. I like division winners being rewarded. Yes some years you will get some ridiculously low point totals for winners but oh well. To me the only reason I would want to see divisions gone is to see 1 vs 16, 2 vs 15, etc. playoff setup. We could get some really interesting playoff matchups if the playoffs were setup that way. Really for me the ultimate situation would be to have the standings/schedules/playoff setups done in cycles changing every 6 to 10 years or whatever.

I like how it all is about Florida... not Boston being 2nd seed when they should be 4th, nor is it about Phoenix who has the 6th best record in the West. Be honest here, if Washington won the SE because Florida did not get their 2 points (or 1 point) in the last game, would anyone care this much?

I don't have an issue with the seedings. The issue I have comes when you reward a team for losing a shootout, yet punish a team for winning a shootout.

Obviously, the win counts as a win, but when it comes down to playoffs, a shootout win does not exist, whereas a shootout loss does exist.

I guess the point there may be that you can't win a playoff game in a shootout... but you can't lose a playoff game in a shootout either.

1. z-NY Rangers 82 109
2. y-Boston 82 102
3. y-Florida 82 94
4. x-Pittsburgh 82 108
5. x-Philadelphia 82 103
6. x-New Jersey 82 102
7. x-Washington 82 92
8. x-Ottawa 82 92

1. z-Vancouver 82 111
2. y-St. Louis 82 109
3. y-Phoenix 82 97
4. x-Nashville 82 104
5. x-Detroit 82 102
6. x-Chicago 82 101
7. x-San Jose 82 96
8. x-Los Angeles 82 95

The Teams that win the division and the teams that are effected in the standings by it are in bold ... You should be assured a place at the table, but not guaranteed a home ice spot

Because that's the way the standings are set up and there's nothing we can do about it.

I'm ok with how it works, but I would be ok with a straight series aswell with just conferences but that would take away some of the excitement aswell imo.

Weak sister division champs?

because the Atlantic wants their division. They are one of the main reasons why realignment is being blocked. Division winners should be rewarded with more then just a playoff spot.

1. z-NY Rangers 82 109
2. y-Boston 82 102
3. y-Florida 82 94
4. x-Pittsburgh 82 108
5. x-Philadelphia 82 103
6. x-New Jersey 82 102
7. x-Washington 82 92
8. x-Ottawa 82 92

1. z-Vancouver 82 111
2. y-St. Louis 82 109
3. y-Phoenix 82 97
4. x-Nashville 82 104
5. x-Detroit 82 102
6. x-Chicago 82 101
7. x-San Jose 82 96
8. x-Los Angeles 82 95

The Teams that win the division and the teams that are effected in the standings by it are in bold ... You should be assured a place at the table, but not guaranteed a home ice spot

There isn't really a better way to do it unless teams start playing within their own division less. You can say that this system is unfair, but anytime your division is really weak or really strong, stuff like this is going to happen, whether or not the NHL moves to another seeding system.

Playing outside of your own division more means more travel though, and for a lot of the Western teams, that's not very desirable.

There isn't really a better way to do it unless teams start playing within their own division less. You can say that this system is unfair, but anytime your division is really weak or really strong, stuff like this is going to happen, whether or not the NHL moves to another seeding system.

Playing outside of your own division more means more travel though, and for a lot of the Western teams, that's not very desirable.

The current setup made more sense when we had 8 division games. Now that it is only 2 more than conference games, I don't see the reward being justified. 4 games vs 6 games isn't that big of a difference.

The NHL tried to fix it, but the NHLPA said no, so whatever. It'll get fixed one day.

That's life. If you want home ice, win your division or come in 4th.

Imagine if they did it like Baseball. Top 4 only. ;) Division winners + wild card.

A better way to determine which "sister division" is weak is to determine how many teams from that division didn't make the playoffs.

Northwest division is the weakest because only one team(Vancouver) got in.

We already have a thread about seeding issues, merged.

A better way to determine which "sister division" is weak is to determine how many teams from that division didn't make the playoffs.

Northwest division is the weakest because only one team(Vancouver) got in.

Right. The problem with the Pacific is that all 5 teams were good this season.

The NHL tried to fix it, but the NHLPA said no, so whatever. It'll get fixed one day.

Tried to fix it? If we went by the new alignment, the East playoffs would look like:

Boston vs. Buffalo
Florida vs. Ottawa

NYR vs New Jersey
Pittsburgh vs. Philadelphia

And in the second round, Boston would get the winner of Florida/Ottawa. That's even worse than the current system.

A better way to determine which "sister division" is weak is to determine how many teams from that division didn't make the playoffs.

Northwest division is the weakest because only one team(Vancouver) got in.

I don't think that's necessarily a great argument. Say the Flames and Avs were a bit hotter and the Sharks/Kings colder at the final stretch and you could have three NW teams and only one Pacific team in the playoffs.

You need to look at each team's record outside their own division to determine their relative strengths.

If it isn't seeding, it's something else. People will continue to complain about everything possible.

If they're going to have divisions, then keep the current system. If you want it changed, then just go to two conferences and have a balanced schedule that way. It's pointless to have divisions without rewarding the team that won it imo.

Look at the West. Sure, Vancouver won a President's Trophy and looks really good, but that's because the rest of the NW didn't even make the Playoffs. Playing 4 bad teams all the time is easy.

The Pacific on the other hand had 5 good teams. 4 teams were in it until the last day and the Ducks were in it way past the deadline. This is going to make the Pacific winner look a lot worse than they are, because they have been facing good teams all year long.

All that to say that seeding by division is more than fair, as doing it solely by points just rewards teams in weak divisions.

Not to mention that it doesn't seem to matter much:

http://thehockeywriters.com/2012-stanley-cup-playoffs-a-look-at-historical-seedings-upsets-and-sweeps/

First seeds in the first round: 18 wins, 6 losses (75% winner)
Second seeds in the first round: 15 wins, 9 losses (62.5% winner)
Third seeds in the first round: 14 wins, 10 losses (58.3% winner)
Fourth seeds in the first round: 15 wins, 9 losses (62.5% winner)

did they win their division??? no so tough luck... dont want to worry about it win your division...

Tried to fix it? If we went by the new alignment, the East playoffs would look like:

Boston vs. Buffalo
Florida vs. Ottawa

NYR vs New Jersey
Pittsburgh vs. Philadelphia

And in the second round, Boston would get the winner of Florida/Ottawa. That's even worse than the current system.

Yup.

Im so glad the NHLPA rejected that horrible alignment and playoff format.

1. z-NY Rangers 82 109
2. y-Boston 82 102
3. y-Florida 82 94
4. x-Pittsburgh 82 108
5. x-Philadelphia 82 103
6. x-New Jersey 82 102
7. x-Washington 82 92
8. x-Ottawa 82 92

1. z-Vancouver 82 111
2. y-St. Louis 82 109
3. y-Phoenix 82 97
4. x-Nashville 82 104
5. x-Detroit 82 102
6. x-Chicago 82 101
7. x-San Jose 82 96
8. x-Los Angeles 82 95

The Teams that win the division and the teams that are effected in the standings by it are in bold ... You should be assured a place at the table, but not guaranteed a home ice spot

Isn't Boston also a weak sister division champ, since the Pens and Flyers both have more points.

Personally, I wouldn't change the seedings.

Isn't Boston also a weak sister division champ, since the Pens and Flyers both have more points.

Personally, I wouldn't change the seedings.

Not really ... 2 whole teams made the playoffs out of the NE