What's more important, GAA or Save%?

leafaholix*
12-23-2004, 06:09 PM
Which statistic is more important?

GAA = The average numbers of goals allowed in a game.
Save% = The percentage of shots a goaltender saves.

x-bob
12-23-2004, 06:10 PM
I find that save % is more of a personal stat like goals or assits.
GAA is more like +/-...It isn't as representif

Chaos
12-23-2004, 06:11 PM
I knew this one was coming ;). I go with GAA, as the job of a goalie is to not give up goals. Some will disagree, but thats just too bad :D .

CH Wizard
12-23-2004, 06:52 PM
Gaa.

kmad
12-23-2004, 06:56 PM
Neither statistic accurately represents a goalie's skills, only the system they play in. A goalie with a low save percentage and a low goals against average will be in a defensive system that limits scoring chances. A goalie with a high save percentage and a high goals against average indicates a very poor defensive team like Florida.

Goalie stats are more indicative of the effctiveness of the team's defensive system rather than the skills of the goaltender. Roman Cechmanek is the shining example of this.

theCRAZYman
12-23-2004, 07:32 PM
Gaa.

Spooky371*
12-23-2004, 07:33 PM
Definitly %.

Luigi Lemieux
12-23-2004, 09:32 PM
easily sv%. the stat that points towards hasek being the best goalie of our generation is save %.

Zetterberg4Captain*
12-23-2004, 09:39 PM
Save Percentage

Lessy
12-23-2004, 10:29 PM
Save Percentage, I think GAA along with +/- are very overrated stats as a goalie could have a great GAA due to playing with a great defense.

tripledekehockey
12-23-2004, 10:37 PM
save %

DisgruntledHawkFan
12-23-2004, 11:31 PM
I think you should take the percentage of scoring chances and goals scored during those chances to be the best represenative of a goalies skill.

benji
12-23-2004, 11:54 PM
I look at Save Percentage.

BuppY
12-24-2004, 12:03 AM
Save%

Rand
12-24-2004, 12:35 AM
Sv % I suppose, but either taken in isolation doesn't necessarily mean much as a determinator of a goaltenders performance.

Coach Bruce
12-24-2004, 02:25 AM
Save %

stv11
12-24-2004, 03:29 AM
None, both are team stats

Jacob
12-24-2004, 03:50 AM
Neither statistic accurately represents a goalie's skills, only the system they play in. A goalie with a low save percentage and a low goals against average will be in a defensive system that limits scoring chances. A goalie with a high save percentage and a high goals against average indicates a very poor defensive team like Florida.

Goalie stats are more indicative of the effctiveness of the team's defensive system rather than the skills of the goaltender. Roman Cechmanek is the shining example of this.
I agree with this.

Masterovic
12-24-2004, 06:36 AM
save %

Make
12-24-2004, 07:37 AM
save %

trentmccleary
12-24-2004, 09:32 AM
Neither statistic accurately represents a goalie's skills, only the system they play in. A goalie with a low save percentage and a low goals against average will be in a defensive system that limits scoring chances. A goalie with a high save percentage and a high goals against average indicates a very poor defensive team like Florida.

Goalie stats are more indicative of the effctiveness of the team's defensive system rather than the skills of the goaltender. Roman Cechmanek is the shining example of this.

No he isn't. His career in Philly was characterized by low GAA and high SV%. In LA last season, he put up a high GAA and low SV%. None of his seasons look like the examples you gave.

DownFromNJ
12-24-2004, 09:41 AM
Sv% can be artificially inflated through a goalie's style (See: Luongo). GAA can be articificially inflated through a great defense.

I'll take the stat that wins games. GAA.

Pavel
12-24-2004, 10:12 AM
Save Pct

AG9NK35DT8*
12-24-2004, 10:45 AM
Which statistic is more important?

GAA = The average numbers of goals allowed in a game.
Save% = The percentage of shots a goaltender saves.

Save Percentage , definitly.If your goalie can stop a higher pct of shots I would assume the less shots he would face then the less goals he would let up.If a goalie could have a save pct of let say 930 and have a GAA of lets say3.05 I would say team defesnse is the problem and once that would be corrected I guarantee that the GAA would go down with out a doubt.

AG9NK35DT8*
12-24-2004, 10:51 AM
I knew this one was coming ;). I go with GAA, as the job of a goalie is to not give up goals. Some will disagree, but thats just too bad :D .
But how many shots is a goalie expected to stop game in and game out, they are not supermen.if a goalie is facing an avg of 40 shots give or take some games is going to let in goalsand will most likely have a GAA of 3 or more maybe less.Defense on the teams part should be accounted for thats IMO.

LaVal
12-24-2004, 01:08 PM
neither. both are team stats. but i guess i would go with GAA, since that means that the team is keeping the goals out, regardless of how many shots they are facing. a high SV% means jack all if they're giving up 4 goals a game.

meehan
12-24-2004, 09:03 PM
You're all wrong, the only goalie stat that matters is wins.

leafaholix*
12-24-2004, 09:05 PM
You're all wrong, the only goalie stat that matters is wins.
Wins is a team statistic.

That's why Roberto Luongo had fewer wins than a guy like Dan Cloutier.

kmad
12-24-2004, 10:24 PM
No he isn't. His career in Philly was characterized by low GAA and high SV%. In LA last season, he put up a high GAA and low SV%. None of his seasons look like the examples you gave.

You're just proving it for me

Philly's team defense is one of the best in the NHL. Cechmanek thrived there. He's the same goalie in LA, but put up retardedly bad numbers in a mediocre defensive system.

Russian_fanatic
12-24-2004, 10:29 PM
Sv %

LaVal
12-25-2004, 12:19 AM
Wins is a team statistic.

That's why Roberto Luongo had fewer wins than a guy like Dan Cloutier.

and so is SV% and GAA. all goaltender stats are team stats (which include the goaltender). but when it all comes down to it, the stat you want your team's goaltender to be dominant on is the Wins collumn. a .930 SV% and 1.90 GAA mean nothing when the win collumn is bare.

the question didn't ask which stat reflected the goaltender performance the most, it asked which is the most important. and the most important thing is that your goaltender is winning you games. since wins isn't an option, i go with GAA (since a .930 SV% doesn't mean much if your goaltender is still letting in 4 goals a game).

trentmccleary
12-25-2004, 02:55 AM
You're just proving it for me

Philly's team defense is one of the best in the NHL. Cechmanek thrived there. He's the same goalie in LA, but put up retardedly bad numbers in a mediocre defensive system.

Huh? :dunno:

As I understand your first post... goalies on bad teams (say Luongo, Theo and Hasek) can have impressive looking SV%'s because they get lots of shots. While they're GAA's generally suffer. While goalies like Brodeur will have low GAA's and awful looking SV%'s because they get few shots.

Cechmanek put up good SV%'s and GAA's in Philly at the same time. But put up awful numbers across the board in LA. I still don't see how he proves your point.

meehan
12-25-2004, 03:03 AM
Wins is a team statistic.

That's why Roberto Luongo had fewer wins than a guy like Dan Cloutier.

This is hockey, EVERY stat is a team statistic and every player is a product of the players around him. Secondly, I love how people take stats(very meaningless in hockey IMO) accumulated over a small amount of time and make bold generalizations. Yeah Cloutier has more wins NOW, just like Cechmanek has a better sv% over about anyone NOW. However, I'd venture to bet a good amount of money that when their careers are over, Luongo will have more wins then Cloutier. Anyone out there want to take me up on that challenge?

kmad
12-25-2004, 04:10 AM
Huh? :dunno:

As I understand your first post... goalies on bad teams (say Luongo, Theo and Hasek) can have impressive looking SV%'s because they get lots of shots. While they're GAA's generally suffer. While goalies like Brodeur will have low GAA's and awful looking SV%'s because they get few shots.

Cechmanek put up good SV%'s and GAA's in Philly at the same time. But put up awful numbers across the board in LA. I still don't see how he proves your point.


You have to imply that I'm aware that the quality of the goaltender does change things a little bit. It's not a final theory, it's just a pattern.

Missionhockey
12-25-2004, 09:52 AM
GAA

Save% doesn't mean as much to me as the results.

DownFromNJ
12-25-2004, 10:30 AM
Wins is much more of a team stat because a goalie can't really change the number of goals scored.

However, he can change the number of goals scored against.

FlyersGuy69
12-25-2004, 01:39 PM
Save Percentage

Epoch
12-25-2004, 02:45 PM
Save Percentage.

LaVal
12-25-2004, 06:40 PM
i don't get this

people are really saying they'd rather their goaltender have a .950 SV% and a 3.00 GAA over a .900 SV% and a 2.00 GAA?

trentmccleary
12-25-2004, 08:48 PM
i don't get this

people are really saying they'd rather their goaltender have a .950 SV% and a 3.00 GAA over a .900 SV% and a 2.00 GAA?

Yep. Cuz we're assuming that Luongo will be effective on every team. Whereas, Cloutier may hae trouble if the defensive quality infront of him is downgraded.

LaVal
12-26-2004, 12:23 AM
Yep. Cuz we're assuming that Luongo will be effective on every team. Whereas, Cloutier may hae trouble if the defensive quality infront of him is downgraded.

i said your goaltender. sorry if i didn't clarify.

so put it this way

would you rather have Hasek with a .950 SV% and a 3.00 GAA, or a .900 SV% and a 2.00 GAA? as the question asked which stat is more important, not which is best reflective of a goaltender's performance. therefor i would tend to think most people would want a low GAA, because it means that no matter what the SV%, the goaltender is keeping pucks out.

trentmccleary
12-26-2004, 12:47 AM
the question asked which stat is more important, not which is best reflective of a goaltender's performance.

We're both making inference here.
Which is the more important stat... needed to measure a goalies performance.
or
Which is the more important stat... that tells you whether you have a good team.

If you'd rather use the second inference, then why not just go with Meehan and picks Wins as the most important goalie statistic?

kmad
12-26-2004, 12:56 AM
If you'd rather use the second inference, then why not just go with Meehan and picks Wins as the most important goalie statistic?

LaVaL does have somewhat of a point here..

Puckhandling goalies like Brodeur and Turco can greatly reduce the number of shots they face by handling dump-ins, passing rebounds to puck-moving defensemen, or just clearing the zone by themselves. Thus, they potentially lower their GAA (by minimizing scoring chances against) while having no effect on the sv%, and it's all the goalie's doing.

trentmccleary
12-26-2004, 01:07 AM
LaVaL does have somewhat of a point here..

Puckhandling goalies like Brodeur and Turco can greatly reduce the number of shots they face by handling dump-ins, passing rebounds to puck-moving defensemen, or just clearing the zone by themselves. Thus, they potentially lower their GAA (by minimizing scoring chances against) while having no effect on the sv%, and it's all the goalie's doing.
True enough. Hadn't thought about it.

stv11
12-26-2004, 06:26 AM
would you rather have Hasek with a .950 SV% and a 3.00 GAA, or a .900 SV% and a 2.00 GAA?

You seem to assume that Hasek would post 3.00 GAA and a .950 sv% wherever he play, which is not true. Put him in New Jersey, put Brodeur in Buffalo, and their stats would be way differents.

Juicer
12-26-2004, 09:00 AM
GAA.

I think giving up fewer goals is the main objective.

LaVal
12-26-2004, 01:02 PM
We're both making inference here.

If you'd rather use the second inference, then why not just go with Meehan and picks Wins as the most important goalie statistic?

true the question could have been more specific. however i don't see this as a question to compare goaltenders performances.

first of all, there is no real stat to compare and judge goaltenders. the style they play, the system they play in, and the players in front of them all have a dramatic effect on the goaltender's stats. it's even, in many cases, impossible to compare stats of goaltenders on the same team, as the team and goaltender may play differently with them in net.

secondly, the question is a comparitive of 2 stats, not other goaltenders. it asks which is more important, and in the end what is most important is that the pucks are staying out. a low SV% is of no concern if the puck is staying out of the net and the team is putting up the wins. and this is what i am saying, not trying to use these as a measure of your team.

se7en*
12-26-2004, 07:47 PM
GAA. For the same reason stated two posts above.

Accord
12-26-2004, 07:56 PM
GAA. A goalie with a higher save percentage could still allow more goals per game than a goalie with a lower save percentage. The objective of a goalie is to let the least amount of goals in as possible, and thus GAA is a much more important stat. Save percentage is too individual.

Pepper
12-27-2004, 03:05 AM
Save-% and it's not even close.

Put Patrick Roy to '94 Sens or Bolts and you would see see him post one of the highest GAA's in the league simply because the team front of him didn't even know the concept of defense. While that affects his save-% as well, the negative effect is not even near that of GAA's which is a team stat more than anything.