Redo 2003 NBA Draft

http://www.nbadraft.net/2003.htm

Redo the top 10, 15, 30, whatever.

Top 5

1.LeBron James
2.Carmelo Anthony
3.Dwayne Wade
4.Kirk Hinrich
5.Chris Bosh


Using the BPA strategy....

lol @ Hinrich ahead of Bosh.

I have...

1. James
-
2. Wade
3. Anthony
-
4. Bosh
-
-
5. Hinrich

1. James
2. Anthony
3. Wade
4. Bosh
5. Hinrich

1. LaBron James
2. Dwayne Wade
3. Carmello Anthony
4. Chris Bosh
5. Kirk Hinrich
6. Darko
7. Ford

As a Toronto Fan im happy with the signing of Bosh over Wade. Wade is an amazing player, no doubt, but the thing is that guys like Wade usually come and go in drafts. Guys like Bosh are harder to come by...While Wade is showing his potential and its shown, Bosh also has tons of potential...just a little more wait.

Darko is a gamble who i think will pay off. He does have a lot of potential. Centres usually take a little long to develop and it'll take him a litttle while too. A poor move by Detroit taking him second, they could have easily traded down...

1. LeBron James
2. Carmello Anthony
3. Dwayne Wade
4. Kirk Hinrich
5. Chris Bosh

lol @ Hinrich ahead of Bosh.


Hinrich: 15.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 7.1 apg, 37 minutes per game, top player and a captain of a team that's turned the corner.

Bosh: 14.2 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 1.6 apg, 35.1 minutes per game, stuck on a bad team.

I'd say it's pretty close between those two. Much closer then some people outside of Chicago would be willing to give any credit for. Given that, i'd draft like this:

1. Lebron James
2. Dwayne Wade
3. Carmello Anthony
4. Kirk Hinrich
5. Chris Bosh

lol @ Hinrich ahead of Bosh.





lol what's wrong with that? From the looks (statistically) of it Bosh and Hinrich are basically just as good as each other.

lol what's wrong with that? From the looks (statistically) of it Bosh and Hinrich are basically just as good as each other.

Perhaps you should look at the three year difference in age as well.

Not gonna redo the entire thing, but Josh Howard(30th overall) would almost certainly have gone top 15, and Marquis Daniels(undrafted), almost certainly would have gone in the 1st round. Great draft for the Mavs.

Detroit Takes Bosh at #2

no use for Wade or Anthony. Both players replace existing Regulars [Prince and Billups]. But The Darko pick is out the window, Detroit would still go for a big guy.

Nobody knows anything about Darko because Brown hardly plays the guy. What was the point of wasting a draft pick that high if you aren't going to play the kid? They should have traded down a couple of spots.

Wade also has two years more experience at the college level over Bosh.

1. Lebron James
....
2. Carmelo Anthony
....
3. Dwayne Wade
....
....
4. Chris Bosh
....
....
5.-60. Everbody else

Nobody knows anything about Darko because Brown hardly plays the guy. What was the point of wasting a draft pick that high if you aren't going to play the kid? They should have traded down a couple of spots.

when the pick was made, they said ANY team at #2 would of taken Darko over Anthony. if the Nuggets had #2, they would have taken Darko.

Issue is, the guy just looks like a bust. Nothing more, Nothing less. All the talent in the world [and nobody denies he has the talent] They say he has more than Kevin Garnett. The problem is, it appears he lacks any and all ability to translate that talent into something at the pro level.

they say he completely dominates in Practice. Drains threes, can take anybody down low...... then he gets into the game and he is completely unprepared.

i bought into the hype, I even have a darko jersey. It just appears the guy lacks the NBA Mentality.

when the pick was made, they said ANY team at #2 would of taken Darko over Anthony. if the Nuggets had #2, they would have taken Darko.

Issue is, the guy just looks like a bust. Nothing more, Nothing less. All the talent in the world [and nobody denies he has the talent] They say he has more than Kevin Garnett. The problem is, it appears he lacks any and all ability to translate that talent into something at the pro level.

they say he completely dominates in Practice. Drains threes, can take anybody down low...... then he gets into the game and he is completely unprepared.

i bought into the hype, I even have a darko jersey. It just appears the guy lacks the NBA Mentality.
It's hard to get any momentum or intensity if you only play once evry three games. He needs to be traded to a team that is in rebuilding mode so he can get some time. He'll be a star if he gets to play.

Perhaps you should look at the three year difference in age as well.



And exactly what does age difference have to do with this? Age isn't nothing but a number my man. A 40 year old player could play like he's 30 but say another 40 year old player could play like he's his own age and a 25 year old player could play like he's his own age but another 25 year old player could play like a 35 year old player. I'm just saying, age isn't everything....

Hinrich: 15.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 7.1 apg, 37 minutes per game, top player and a captain of a team that's turned the corner.

Bosh: 14.2 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 1.6 apg, 35.1 minutes per game, stuck on a bad team.

I'd say it's pretty close between those two. Much closer then some people outside of Chicago would be willing to give any credit for. Given that, i'd draft like this:

1. Lebron James
2. Dwayne Wade
3. Carmello Anthony
4. Kirk Hinrich
5. Chris Bosh

Of course the fact that you are in Chicago might imply a bit of bias. Of course I see the Raps play much more than the Bulls, so the accusation will be easy to throw back at me...

I like how you identify that Kirk is a top player and captain on team that has turned the corner and Bosh is only stuck on a bad team. Kirk has stepped up on a very young team; good for him. The Raptors are a much more veteran laiden team; the expectations for Bosh are different. Kirk is a PG, he controls the flow of the game. Bosh does not.

Both teams are under 500. yes Chicago is on a bit of streak, but the Raps record is also much better post vince. Bosh in particular has been playing great (eastern conference player of the week).

Now don't get me wrong. Bosh is only 20 and has not demonstrated game in and game out consistency yet. PJ_26 questioned the importance of age and in his examples of 25 and 40 year old's it might not matter a great deal, but for a 20 year old who is still physically maturing it does.

And exactly what does age difference have to do with this? Age isn't nothing but a number my man. A 40 year old player could play like he's 30 but say another 40 year old player could play like he's his own age and a 25 year old player could play like he's his own age but another 25 year old player could play like a 35 year old player. I'm just saying, age isn't everything....

Uh huh, but age does mean something when you're talking about drafting players. Bosh frankly has a higher ceiling than Hinrich does. I like Hinrich, he's one of my favorite players and might be the better player now, but I doubt this will be the case in a few years.

Chris Bosh: 1984, 14.5 PPG, 8.1 RPG, 1.3 BPG, 48% FG
Kirk Hinrich: 1981, 15.9 PPG, 3.9 RPG, 7.1 APG, 41% FG

Chris Bosh is miles ahead of Hinrich.

Chris Bosh: 1984, 14.5 PPG, 8.1 RPG, 1.3 BPG, 48% FG
Kirk Hinrich: 1981, 15.9 PPG, 3.9 RPG, 7.1 APG, 41% FG

Chris Bosh is miles ahead of Hinrich.

I wouldnt say miles ahead, especially when you consider Hinrich is a PG. But Bosh is definately ahead of him.

I wouldnt say miles ahead, especially when you consider Hinrich is a PG. But Bosh is definately ahead of him.Chris Bosh has the potential to be a top 10 player in the world, and at 20 years old he's already the go-to guy. Kirk Hinrich is 24 years old and he's an above average PG... but he doesn't have that potential.

Kirk Hinrich is 24 years old and he's an above average PG... but he doesn't have that potential.

Why not?This is his only his 2nd pro year,and at Kansas he was pretty damn good.

Chris Bosh has the potential to be a top 10 player in the world, and at 20 years old he's already the go-to guy. Kirk Hinrich is 24 years old and he's an above average PG... but he doesn't have that potential.

I think you might be overrating Bosh potential just a little bit, and really underrating Hinrich's. You are forgetting that Hinrich himself is in his 2nd season(just like Bosh). Besides, you're kind of arguing for no reason. I'd take Bosh over Hinrich any day of the week.

Why not?This is his only his 2nd pro year,and at Kansas he was pretty damn good.He's a good player, just not as good as Chris Bosh.

and your basing that assumption on......?

I think you might be overrating Bosh potential just a little bit, and really underrating Hinrich's. You are forgetting that Hinrich himself is in his 2nd season(just like Bosh). Besides, you're kind of arguing for no reason. I'd take Bosh over Hinrich any day of the week.I'm not overrating Bosh.

He's the real deal. Not sure how many Raptors games you get out there in Texas, but CB4's a great player. And to think he's only 20. I'd like to thank the fine state of Texas for giving us possibly the greatest player in the history of the organization.

I'm not overrating Bosh.

He's the real deal. Not sure how many Raptors games you get out there in Texas, but CB4's a great player. And to think he's only 20. I'd like to thank the fine state of Texas for giving us possibly the greatest player in the history of the organization.

Sure he's a great player...but to list him as a potential top 10 guy in the league might be a stretch. Unless Duncan, Garnett, Shaq, Kobe, Nowitzki, Kidd, McGrady, Nash, Stoudemire, Allen, Iverson start retiring in the next 5 years(and those are just off the top of my head), I dont see him being a top 10 player in the league. A great player? Yes.

Sure he's a great player...but to list him as a potential top 10 guy in the league might be a stretch. Unless Duncan, Garnett, Shaq, Kobe, Nowitzki, Kidd, McGrady, Nash, Stoudemire, Allen, Iverson start retiring in the next 5 years(and those are just off the top of my head), I dont see him being a top 10 player in the league. A great player? Yes.In a couple years I see him up there. With his emergence since the Vince Carter trade, he's already automatic for atleast 15/10 a night, plus a couple blocks.

In a couple years, if he fills out a bit more, he'll be a top 10 player. Not sure who you want to bump out of those guys you listed, but he'll be there.

Sure he's a great player...but to list him as a potential top 10 guy in the league might be a stretch. Unless Duncan, Garnett, Shaq, Kobe, Nowitzki, Kidd, McGrady, Nash, Stoudemire, Allen, Iverson start retiring in the next 5 years(and those are just off the top of my head), I dont see him being a top 10 player in the league. A great player? Yes.

You forgot James, Yao, Carmelo and Wade (off the top of my head) - these guys should be over Bosh in 5 years as well.


BTW wouldn't it be easier to start a Raptors thread then to have these different Bosh-praising threads around?

In a couple years I see him up there. With his emergence since the Vince Carter trade, he's already automatic for atleast 15/10 a night, plus a couple blocks.

In a couple years, if he fills out a bit more, he'll be a top 10 player. Not sure who you want to bump out of those guys you listed, but he'll be there.

No one...Duncan's good for 20/10 easily every year, Garnett about 20/13 guaranteed, Shaq the same, Kobe good for at least 25 a game, Dirk 25/10, Kidd 15/7/10 assists or so, McGrady 25/5, Nash 15/10 assists, Stoudemire 20/10 for sure, Allen 20 a night, Iverson almost 30 a night. Who is he going to "bump" out? This isnt even including a guy I completely forgot, a guy by the name of LeBron, as well as Carmelo Anthony just to name a few more.

I'm not overrating Bosh.

possibly the greatest player in the history of the organization.

The second point would seem to contradict the first. He may get there, but he's not there yet.

In a couple years I see him up there. With his emergence since the Vince Carter trade, he's already automatic for atleast 15/10 a night, plus a couple blocks.

In a couple years, if he fills out a bit more, he'll be a top 10 player. Not sure who you want to bump out of those guys you listed, but he'll be there.
lets not make the same mistake we made with Vince...

your being very biased in this discussion...

The second point would seem to contradict the first. He may get there, but he's not there yet.The "possibly" means it's POSSIBLE (with his talent and development) that he's going to surpass Vince Carter's status in the organization.

He's obviously not better right now... but it's possible.

No one...Duncan's good for 20/10 easily every year, Garnett about 20/13 guaranteed, Shaq the same, Kobe good for at least 25 a game, Dirk 25/10, Kidd 15/7/10 assists or so, McGrady 25/5, Nash 15/10 assists, Stoudemire 20/10 for sure, Allen 20 a night, Iverson almost 30 a night. Who is he going to "bump" out? This isnt even including a guy I completely forgot, a guy by the name of LeBron, as well as Carmelo Anthony just to name a few more.Add 2 years to some of those older guys.

Not sure they would manage to stay in the top 10.

Add 2 years to some of those older guys.

Not sure they would manage to stay in the top 10.

In two years? The only one dropping significantly in production might be Shaq.

By then Lebron is a certainty for 'consensus top 10 player' (he's already one now) so he'll replace Shaq in the list.
Allen's aging as well but we've got Wade and Carmelo to cover for him. And then there's Yao as well!

I don't see any of the other guys slowing down to a level where you wouldn't consider them top 10 anymore. (barring injuries of course). There's other guys like Jermaine O'Neil and co who are probably still going to be better then Bosh, there's AK 47 if he continues his rise and recovers from injury.

In two years? The only one dropping significantly in production might be Shaq.

By then Lebron is a certainty for 'consensus top 10 player' (he's already one now) so he'll replace Shaq in the list.
Allen's aging as well but we've got Wade and Carmelo to cover for him. And then there's Yao as well!

I don't see any of the other guys slowing down to a level where you wouldn't consider them top 10 anymore. (barring injuries of course). There's other guys like Jermaine O'Neil and co who are probably still going to be better then Bosh, there's AK 47 if he continues his rise and recovers from injury.

Ok, top 20 player in a couple years. I don't see Shaq and Kidd being dominant in a couple years.

I'm glad that Hinrich is playing so well. I thought he may fizzle out a bit as Drew Gooden did after leaving Kansas. Ironically, he is the better of the two (which was certainly not what I thought would happen when they played together in college) and looks like he can only go up in stock, while Gooden continues to be inconsistent.

The "possibly" means it's POSSIBLE (with his talent and development) that he's going to surpass Vince Carter's status in the organization.

He's obviously not better right now... but it's possible.

Yeah, I picked up on the subtle connection between possibly and possible ;)
The fact remains that Bosh has a long way to go before he is the best player in franchise history or a top 10 player in the league.
It goes back to your earlier claim that you're not overrating Bosh. Consensus would seem to indicate that you are. No one's saying he's not a good young player, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Edit - at this point, I would argue that he hasn't even passed Damon and is probably pretty close to McGrady in terms of Raptor's contributions

Comparing Bosh and Vince isnt right. Both had different styles of playing. I would compare Vince to guys like McGrady and Kobe...and Bosh to guys like Duncan, Garnett. Now, looking what Bosh has done so far for our team. I think its legit to say IF HE STAYS HEALTHY, GAIN SOME MORE WEIGHT, GET STRONGER, he will soon be in same vicinity of players like Garnett and Duncan...

Sure he's a great player...but to list him as a potential top 10 guy in the league might be a stretch. Unless Duncan, Garnett, Shaq, Kobe, Nowitzki, Kidd, McGrady, Nash, Stoudemire, Allen, Iverson start retiring in the next 5 years(and those are just off the top of my head), I dont see him being a top 10 player in the league. A great player? Yes.



Couldn't agree more... As for me, I see Bosh being a top 20 or top 25 player, but certainly not a top 10 player.

Add 2 years to some of those older guys.

Not sure they would manage to stay in the top 10.


But then in a few years add such guys like OJ Mayo or Greg Oden to the league...which both will probably be better then Bosh.

But then in a few years add such guys like OJ Mayo or Greg Oden to the league...which both will probably be better then Bosh.lol.

I'm glad that Hinrich is playing so well. I thought he may fizzle out a bit as Drew Gooden did after leaving Kansas. Ironically, he is the better of the two (which was certainly not what I thought would happen when they played together in college) and looks like he can only go up in stock, while Gooden continues to be inconsistent.

Gooden's having a very solid year...excellent rebounder although he's offensive game is not what it was in college. Fizzled out his first few years no doubt but I think he's found a home as a sidekick for Bron Bron. I doubt he'll ever be All-Star material but as a guy who can give you a pretty steady 13-14 points and 9-10 rebounds a night, he's been a bargain for Cleveland.

Btw, as a Kansas grad who attened school and had season tickets during the entire Hinrich/Collison/Gooden era at KU, I would have said there was no doubt in my mind Hinrich would end up being the best pro of the bunch. Just because he looks like a 14 year-old farm boy (or the Zoom-Zoom kid from the Mazda commercials as we used to liken him to) doesn't mean he didn't have NBA game.

As for his upside, he averages about 16 per game right now and I expect that to be about what he does for his career. As Deng, Gordon, Chandler, and Curry all develop, Hinrich's role will tilt more as a passing point guard who pushes the ball imo. His 7 assists per game should go up, and as already a Top 10 NBA assist man, I expect him to crack the top 5 in his prime. He's got some weaknesses still...he takes too many 3's (but seems to have the freedom in Chicago's offense right now to take a lot of shots)...and although he has a very good long range stroke, he can be a lot more selective as the supporting cast grows around him and when you've got an even better sharpshooting option like Ben Gordon as your running mate.

Oh yeah, and while we are talking about upside...two words...Luol Deng.

James
Wade
Bosh
Mello
Howard
Heinrich
Sweetney
Pietrus
Hayes
Ridnour
Korver
Kaman
West
Collison
Cook
Barbosa
Pavlovic
Perkins
Williams
Diaw
Delfino
Green
Lampe
Kapano
Outlaw
Planinic
Pachulia
Zarko

Yeah, I would have Josh Howard at #5 too.

And Matt Bonner in the top 15 or so.

**** forgot Bonner. I'd probably put him behind Barbosa.

Left Ford off b/c of the injury.

1.) Lebron
2.) Wade
3.) Bosh
4.) Carmelo
5.) Hinrich
6.) Howard
7.) Darko
8.) Kaman
9.) Hayes
10.) Pietrus/Sweetney

It's still a little early to have a really good idea of where these guys will end up but this is how I would rate them. I still think Pietrus and Sweetney will develop into pretty solid players and Kaman has a lot of skill for a 7 footer. TJ Ford would be way up on this list (definitely ahead of Hinrich) but I left him off due to his injury. I put Bosh ahead of Carmelo simply because I like his attitude a lot more and I think that will help him become the better player in the future.

James
Wade
Bosh
Mello
Howard
Heinrich
Sweetney
Pietrus
Hayes
Ridnour
Korver
Kaman
West
Collison
Cook
Barbosa
Pavlovic
Perkins
Williams
Diaw
Delfino
Green
Lampe
Kapano
Outlaw
Planinic
Pachulia
Zarko

Just gotta wonder what these NBA GM's were thinking when they let the ACC player of the Year drop to the last pick of the 1st round, simply because he chose to stay in college all 4 years.

Just gotta wonder what these NBA GM's were thinking when they let the ACC player of the Year drop to the last pick of the 1st round, simply because he chose to stay in college all 4 years.
There seems to be an unspoken theory amongst NBA scouts that four year college players have already maxed out their potential. They seem to feel that "what you see is what you get" with a 4 year player and I personally think that it's ridiculous. Guys like Duncan stuck around in the NCAA for 4 years and actually honed their skills for the NBA.

I watched Howard play a lot at Wake Forest and I had a feeling he'd be a pretty big steal in the draft. He's also in a perfect situation in Dallas where he has a lot of talent surrounding him and he can afford to make mistakes...

There seems to be an unspoken theory amongst NBA scouts that four year college players have already maxed out their potential. They seem to feel that "what you see is what you get" with a 4 year player and I personally think that it's ridiculous. Guys like Duncan stuck around in the NCAA for 4 years and actually honed their skills for the NBA.
Agreed 100%

I watched Howard play a lot at Wake Forest and I had a feeling he'd be a pretty big steal in the draft. He's also in a perfect situation in Dallas where he has a lot of talent surrounding him and he can afford to make mistakes...
He's definately in the right situation, especially with a coach like Nelson. And he can afford to make mistakes, but he really hasnt made that many this year. Made a lot last year though, but thats to be expected of a rookie.

You forgot James, Yao, Carmelo and Wade (off the top of my head) - these guys should be over Bosh in 5 years as well.


BTW wouldn't it be easier to start a Raptors thread then to have these different Bosh-praising threads around?

Anthony has Jerry Stackhouse written all over him.

The guy refuses to play defense, refuses to pass. And makes roughly 20% of all his shots.

Ofcorse he takes 40+ shots a game, so its easy for him to put up 20-25 a night

More like Glenn Robinson w/ no range.

Yeah... Definately no bias in this thread.

Anthony has Jerry Stackhouse written all over him.

The guy refuses to play defense, refuses to pass. And makes roughly 20% of all his shots.

Ofcorse he takes 40+ shots a game, so its easy for him to put up 20-25 a night

couldnt agree more. At first i was about to write something like this but i thought i'll be flamed bad. Now i know someone is there to back me up.

Yeah... Definately no bias in this thread.
Yeah,you just have about 10 raptor fans seriously overrating Bosh...

And 'Melo getting no respect :shakehead

James
Wade
Mellow/Bosh




15-20: Bonner

It's hard to get any momentum or intensity if you only play once evry three games. He needs to be traded to a team that is in rebuilding mode so he can get some time. He'll be a star if he gets to play.


Come on, it's not Larry Borwns fault the kid is so out of shape he's winded after playing 30 seconds of basketball. If Darko earned playing time in practice he would play. When he was healthy Brown had no problem playing Carlos Delfino. Darko has no one to blame but himself for his lack of PT.

http://www.thesportskiosk.com/voiceofreason/voiceofreason6.html

Yeah,you just have about 10 raptor fans seriously overrating Bosh...

And 'Melo getting no respect :shakehead

Overrating Bosh? Noone is overrating him Bosh. We're just discussing his potential and different people are giving their intakes. He is THAT good. Anthony is a good player but i would take Bosh over him anyday!

In related news... Chris Bosh with his 8th straight double-double.

vs. Kevin Garnett (2004/05): 21.5 PPG, 12.5 RPG, 1 BPG

That's only 2 games, but look at KG's stats...

vs. Bosh: 21.5 PPG, 14.5 RPG, 0.5 BPG

One is 21, the other is 29.

He is THAT good. Anthony is a good player but i would take Bosh over him anyday!

:lol

Fo' real?

Zarko Cabarcrapa lol. Oh the fun I had with him in nba live

I would take Bosh over Mello. Mello can score but that's about it, plus he has a ****** attitude. I see a lot of AI type attitude in Mello, and no that's not a good thing.

As for Heinrich, he is going to be a great PG in the NBA but Bosh is a more complete player then him. Plus it's very hard to compare a PG to a PF. They play completely different games. And I might even take Gordon over Heinrich, I just think that Gordon has more of the gamebreaker ability in him. But hey I'm sure the Bulls aren't complaining, since they have them both. That is some future :amazed:

I would take Bosh over Lebron, if you compare their last three games, Bosh was easily better. I'll admit that Lebron put some points on the board but at the end of the day, Basketball is a team sport and Cleveland went 1-2 while Toronto got 2W and one loss.
Secondly dominating post players are a much rarer commodity then 2 players like James or combo guards like Wade

Bosh>>James

I would take Bosh over Lebron, if you compare their last three games, Bosh was easily better. I'll admit that Lebron put some points on the board but at the end of the day, Basketball is a team sport and Cleveland went 1-2 while Toronto got 2W and one loss.
Secondly dominating post players are a much rarer commodity then 2 players like James or combo guards like Wade

Bosh>>James

:rolleyes:

Let me ask you something...who would you rather have AI or Duncan? AI is leading the league in scoring so he is the better player right?

The fact is while Heinrich is a great point guard, but Bosh simplies brings more to the table. Bosh can run the floor as well as any big man in the league, he can take the ball inside, he can rebound, he has great range from all around the key, he can block shots and he is going to be a great leader on and off the court. Plus he is only 20 years old and has gotten better with every passing week. I realize he doesn't get a lot of exposure but he will make the the All-Star team this year, will Heinrich? I'm not so sure.

I was just making fun in general of some people's behaviour in this and other threads.

Bosh is an excellent player already and will only become better.
But I would suggest you all give him the time to do so instead of hyping him up too much. He's playing great right now but he'll slow down in a few games undoubtedly, he's too young to be a consistent 20pt post player yet, but anyway that's not the issue

As for Hinrich over Bosh that's debatable in my books and I could see strong arguments for either player to be taken over the other, so my comments weren't directly aimed at that.

I was just making fun in general of some people's behaviour in this and other threads.

Bosh is an excellent player already and will only become better.
But I would suggest you all give him the time to do so instead of hyping him up too much. He's playing great right now but he'll slow down in a few games undoubtedly, he's too young to be a consistent 20pt post player yet, but anyway that's not the issue

As for Hinrich over Bosh that's debatable in my books and I could see strong arguments for either player to be taken over the other, so my comments weren't directly aimed at that.

Like I said it's very hard to compare a PG and PF, almost impossible really. At the time of the draft (and still now) the Raptors needed someone who could play in the paint(score, defend, rebound etc.). So Bosh has been a perfect pick for them while Heinrich may not of been the best choice for them.

But I do agree with about over hyping Bosh. The Canadian sports media is all over this kid and they keep asking him if this is "his team" and I just keep sayin to myself, let him develop. That is not the type of pressure he needs at this point of his career. But I apologize for my excitment because I am just drooling thinking of the type of player he can become. IMO the sky is the limit with him and I really think that Sam Mitchell is the perfect coach to help him realize his potential.

I'm a huge fan of Hinrich. He's leading the Bulls into playoff contention what so many high praised and promessing players before him constantly failed to do. I take him over Bosh fairly easily unless Bosh can keep this up for the remainer of the season, then it's a near toss up.

Hinrich over Bosh easily? That's crazy talk.

Hinrich over Bosh easily? That's crazy talk.

East is the conference of the guards, meaning Hinrich faces stiffer competition than Bosh. There's only Jermaine in the East (Shaq is a center) and to a lower extend Rasheed. In the West Bosh would face Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, Amare, Webber, Randolph, Martin, Brand (Yao is a center).

East is the conference of the guards, meaning Hinrich faces stiffer competition than Bosh. There's only Jermaine in the East (Shaq is a center) and to a lower extend Rasheed. In the West Bosh would face Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, Amare, Webber, Randolph, Martin, Brand (Yao is a center).... so?

Because Bosh is in the East doesn't mean anything.

I'm a huge fan of Hinrich. He's leading the Bulls into playoff contention what so many high praised and promessing players before him constantly failed to do. I take him over Bosh fairly easily unless Bosh can keep this up for the remainer of the season, then it's a near toss up.That's almost as funny as this (http://www.hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2144762&postcount=19).

... so?

Because Bosh is in the East doesn't mean anything.

In comparison to the players Hinrich faces night in night out, it's very relevant to the comparison.

Hinrich has better numbers than Bosh, is leading a worse team to a better record and faces stiffer competition. Hinrich for me, as funny as it may be for you.

Hinrich has better numbers than Bosh

That is VERY debatable. I'd concede that at this point their numbers are comparable, but to claim that Kirk's are better is overstating it.

That is VERY debatable. I'd concede that at this point their numbers are comparable, but to claim that Kirk's are better is overstating it.

I don't see how it's debatable, let alone "very"..

Kirk Hinrich .. 15.8 ppg - 4.1 rpg - 7.1 apg - 1.46 spg - 0.29 bpg in 37.2 minutes.
Chris Bosh ... 14.6 ppg - 8.2 rpg - 1.6 apg - 0.92 spg - 1.26 bpg in 35.3 minutes.

Hinrich, thank you very much.

Speaking of the 2003 draftees, other than Dinos fans, who do you think has been better this year? Mello or Bosh?

I don't see how it's debatable, let alone "very"..

Kirk Hinrich .. 15.8 ppg - 4.1 rpg - 7.1 apg - 1.46 spg - 0.29 bpg in 37.2 minutes.
Chris Bosh ... 14.6 ppg - 8.2 rpg - 1.6 apg - 0.92 spg - 1.26 bpg in 35.3 minutes.

Hinrich, thank you very much.
8 straight double-doubles for Bosh, since Carter has been gone I think he's avg around 20ppg.

Hinrich is erratic and overrated. He's running one of the worst offenses in the NBA. His FG% is horrid even though he has plenty of scoring options around him. The Stockton comparisons he's been getting from the talking heads in the media are absurd, even Nash's level would be a pretty big stretch for Hinrich.

I really don't know how anybody can say Hinrich is close to Bosh now or in the future. Bosh is getting better while Hinrich has pretty much plateaued.

I don't see how it's debatable, let alone "very"..

Kirk Hinrich .. 15.8 ppg - 4.1 rpg - 7.1 apg - 1.46 spg - 0.29 bpg in 37.2 minutes.
Chris Bosh ... 14.6 ppg - 8.2 rpg - 1.6 apg - 0.92 spg - 1.26 bpg in 35.3 minutes.

Hinrich, thank you very much.

points are virtually a wash (I would say that if Bosh was up by 1 or down by 1), with Bosh's ppg on the way up.
Hinrich has a better apg (as he should)
Bosh has a better rpg (as he should)
steals are close (bosh's number impresses me for a young big)
Bosh has the advantage in blocks (as he should)
Bosh has a significantly better FG%, Hinrich has a signficantly better FT%

you would appear to value assists a great deal if you want to state that Hinrich has clearly better numbers. i'm looking at the same numbers you are and i can't for the life of me figure out how you see it as such a clear cut advantage for Kirk. IMO the idea that they aren't close enough to debate is just wrong.

Hinrich: 24 years old (1981)
Bosh: 21 years old (1984)

Milicic really gets no love around here just because he has not played much. Well, I'll tell you that is totally calculated. Milicic would have been drafted 2nd by every NBA team if they had the chance. Everybody knew he would not be an impact player during the first couple of years.The kid will turn out to be a great player. He has much more potential then Bosh, Anthony and co. just needs more time to develop.

Milicic really gets no love around here just because he has not played much. Well, I'll tell you that is totally calculated. Milicic would have been drafted 2nd by every NBA team if they had the chance. Everybody knew he would not be an impact player during the first couple of years.The kid will turn out to be a great player. He has much more potential then Bosh, Anthony and co. just needs more time to develop.I read somewhere that he's going to seek a trade.

Milicic really gets no love around here just because he has not played much. Well, I'll tell you that is totally calculated. Milicic would have been drafted 2nd by every NBA team if they had the chance. Everybody knew he would not be an impact player during the first couple of years.The kid will turn out to be a great player. He has much more potential then Bosh, Anthony and co. just needs more time to develop.
He's also never shown anything when given the chance to play. He definitely has a lot of natural ability when it comes to basketball but I question if he has a good enough attitude and mindset to make it in the NBA. His potentially is certainly higher than Bosh's but this is one situation where I would definitely take the known commodity...

Milicic really gets no love around here just because he has not played much. Well, I'll tell you that is totally calculated. Milicic would have been drafted 2nd by every NBA team if they had the chance. Everybody knew he would not be an impact player during the first couple of years.The kid will turn out to be a great player. He has much more potential then Bosh, Anthony and co. just needs more time to develop.

Not following this
How is Detroit's not playing Milicic totally calculated? Let's draft him with a high pick and bury him on our bench, because the total lack of playing time will help him develop and show his potential...
All of the teams may have placed him second but that doesn't mean he can't be a bust. All drafts in all sports are full of prospects who don't live up to the hype. Not saying Darko can't step it up, but he's shown absolutely nothing to support the fact that he will

If I was a Pistons fan and still had high hopes for Darko I'd be praying Brown leaves after this season.

Not following this
How is Detroit's not playing Milicic totally calculated? Let's draft him with a high pick and bury him on our bench, because the total lack of playing time will help him develop and show his potential...
All of the teams may have placed him second but that doesn't mean he can't be a bust. All drafts in all sports are full of prospects who don't live up to the hype. Not saying Darko can't step it up, but he's shown absolutely nothing to support the fact that he will

Look:
Every NBA scout and expert was convinced of his skill. Everybody knew he would get drafted 2nd but also everybody knew he would not make an impact the first couple of seasons because he just needs more time to develop. The guy is still 19 i think and still has all the skill to make it. The fact that he hasn't so far should not be a suprise for anybody since that was totally expected. Maybe right now Anthony, Bosh and all look greater but lets wait and see who'll be the better player in like 5 years, thats all I'm saying.

Not following this
How is Detroit's not playing Milicic totally calculated? Let's draft him with a high pick and bury him on our bench, because the total lack of playing time will help him develop and show his potential...
All of the teams may have placed him second but that doesn't mean he can't be a bust. All drafts in all sports are full of prospects who don't live up to the hype. Not saying Darko can't step it up, but he's shown absolutely nothing to support the fact that he will

Anyone picked in that position, except maybe Lebron, would have received the same treatment from Larry Brown. If anyone thinks that Brown would have turned Anthony loose and let him play the way he has, one needs only look to the Olympics where he was benched to see that simply isn't the case. If Anthony had gone 2nd and Milicic 3rd we would be talking about Anthony as the potential bust/trade bait. There is ZERO chance he would play over Tayshyn Prince in Larry Brown's system given his unwillingness to play defense and the team game.

Look:
Every NBA scout and expert was convinced of his skill. Everybody knew he would get drafted 2nd but also everybody knew he would not make an impact the first couple of seasons because he just needs more time to develop. The guy is still 19 i think and still has all the skill to make it. The fact that he hasn't so far should not be a suprise for anybody since that was totally expected. Maybe right now Anthony, Bosh and all look greater but lets wait and see who'll be the better player in like 5 years, thats all I'm saying.

I'm really not arguing the points you've raised in this post. What you seem to have missed is the actual point that I was attempting to make. here goes again.

What I was saying is that your comment that Detroit not playing him is some sort of "totally calculated" masterplan seems off-base.
Sure they knew he needed to develop and sure going to Detroit (a deep, veteran team) meant that he wasn't going to be expected to step up and contribute big numbers from day one and sure he's 19 and it's way too early to label him a bust
BUT
do you actually believe that Detroit is happy with how he's progressing? do you feel that they are having meetings and saying wow this plan of not giving Milicic any playing time is really helping him develop into the player that we want him to be?

I did not say he was a bust; i simply said that he hasn't shown anything to support the fact that he won't become one. Yes the expectations of him coming into the league were different than the ones for LeBron and others, but that doesn't mean that his progress, or lack there of, can be viewed as anything but a disappointment.

Anyone picked in that position, except maybe Lebron, would have received the same treatment from Larry Brown. If anyone thinks that Brown would have turned Anthony loose and let him play the way he has, one needs only look to the Olympics where he was benched to see that simply isn't the case. If Anthony had gone 2nd and Milicic 3rd we would be talking about Anthony as the potential bust/trade bait. There is ZERO chance he would play over Tayshyn Prince in Larry Brown's system given his unwillingness to play defense and the team game.
Not sure if you were agreeing with me or arguing points raised in my original post. Bottom line from my end is, I agree with your post. I see nothing in my original post that you are contradicting.

I'm personally getting sick of players in the NBA and other leagues getting by on "potential". Granted Darko is young and still has to grow into his body but the kid was the freaking 2nd pick in the draft. You have to think that he should at least have shown a few spurts of greatness and at least have a couple 10 point games by this point in time. I'd be disappointed at this point in time if I was a Detroit fan... Darko is making millions of dollars and he hasn't shown any reason why he deserves more playing time as of yet. He definitely has a lot of skill but I'm not optimistic that he'll become one of the top 10 players in the NBA like he was hyped to...

I'm personally getting sick of players in the NBA and other leagues getting by on "potential". Granted Darko is young and still has to grow into his body but the kid was the freaking 2nd pick in the draft. You have to think that he should at least have shown a few spurts of greatness and at least have a couple 10 point games by this point in time. I'd be disappointed at this point in time if I was a Detroit fan... Darko is making millions of dollars and he hasn't shown any reason why he deserves more playing time as of yet. He definitely has a lot of skill but I'm not optimistic that he'll become one of the top 10 players in the NBA like he was hyped to...

I Agree. But Centres take a little longer to develop. Brown is the one at fault. He might not have coached him well enough. If he was in a team like Toronto, for example, he would be given more attention in terms of coaching.

You have to take into account who their coach is and how good their team is. He has a coach who prefers veterans and his ability to develop young players is highly questionable. Then he has the Wallaces and McDyess in front of him. The minutes aren't there for him to play and he has a coach who doesn't develop young players. That's a recipe for disaster.