PFW's top 50 NFL players of 2004

John Flyers Fan
01-26-2005, 12:28 PM
Criteria as follows:

#1. How well the individual played in 2004.
#2 Value to his team.

Each was given 50%

Based on a poll of NFL personnel


The top 15.

1. Peyton Manning
2. Donovan McNabb
3. Terrell Owens
4. Daunte Culpepper
5. Curtis Martin
6. Drew Brees
7. Tom Brady
8. Corey Dillon
9. Ben Roethlisberger
10. LaDanian Tomlinson
11. Ed Reed
12. Muhsin Muhammad
13. Dwight Freeny
14. Brett Favre
15. James Farrior

IkeaMonkey*
01-26-2005, 12:38 PM
Criteria as follows:

#1. How well the individual played in 2004.
#2 Value to his team.

Each was given 50%

Based on a poll of NFL personnel


The top 15.

1. Peyton Manning
2. Donovan McNabb
3. Terrell Owens
4. Daunte Culpepper
5. Curtis Martin
6. Drew Brees
7. Tom Brady
8. Corey Dillon
9. Ben Roethlisberger
10. LaDanian Tomlinson
11. Ed Reed
12. Muhsin Muhammad
13. Dwight Freeny
14. Brett Favre
15. James Farrior


Bump Ben down to about 13th, LT to 14thish, Freeney and Reed into the top 10, Favre off the board and Gates in and you've got a decent list.

John Flyers Fan
01-26-2005, 12:41 PM
Bump Ben down to about 13th, LT to 14thish, Freeney and Reed into the top 10, Favre off the board and Gates in and you've got a decent list.

Gates is 19th.

Gibsons Finest
01-26-2005, 12:48 PM
Gates is 19th.

He meant into the top 15, I think.

John Flyers Fan
01-26-2005, 12:52 PM
He meant into the top 15, I think.

I know, i was just pointing out where he falls on the list.

Big McLargehuge
01-26-2005, 01:12 PM
Roethlisberger over Farrior 0_o

John Flyers Fan
01-26-2005, 01:25 PM
Roethlisberger over Farrior 0_o

Obviously farrior was the better player this year, but what would the Steelers record have been if:

Farrior playing & Tommy Maddox for 11 games & Charlie Batch for 5 games

or

Roethlisberger & Clint Kriewaldt (or whoever his replacement would have been)

Evilo
01-26-2005, 01:33 PM
Obviously farrior was the better player this year, but what would the Steelers record have been if:

Farrior playing & Tommy Maddox for 11 games & Charlie Batch for 5 games

or

Roethlisberger & Clint Kriewaldt (or whoever his replacement would have been)
I'm sure DynamoAO will tell you that Ben could have been replaced by any NFL Europe QB and the Steelers would still have the same record.

Big McLargehuge
01-26-2005, 01:36 PM
Obviously farrior was the better player this year, but what would the Steelers record have been if:

Farrior playing & Tommy Maddox for 11 games & Charlie Batch for 5 games

or

Roethlisberger & Clint Kriewaldt (or whoever his replacement would have been)

touche.

It would be Kriewaldt btw. And that makes me cringe.

IkeaMonkey*
01-26-2005, 01:40 PM
I'm sure DynamoAO will tell you that Ben could have been replaced by any NFL Europe QB and the Steelers would still have the same record.

I love people who obsess over me, it makes me look hot....

To the point, how am I discrediting him? God forbid I listed him as THIRTEENTH! GASP! GASP! I totally took all the credit away from Ben.

Continue to obsess over me and my comments though, it makes my e-ego grow.

ObeySteve
01-26-2005, 02:00 PM
Tiki Barber?

The guy had more yards from scrimmage than anyone in the NFL, and he was the only one doing anything on a horrid Giants offense all season.

John Flyers Fan
01-26-2005, 02:10 PM
Tiki Barber?

The guy had more yards from scrimmage than anyone in the NFL, and he was the only one doing anything on a horrid Giants offense all season.

18th on their list.

Evilo
01-26-2005, 03:02 PM
I love people who obsess over me, it makes me look hot....

To the point, how am I discrediting him? God forbid I listed him as THIRTEENTH! GASP! GASP! I totally took all the credit away from Ben.

Continue to obsess over me and my comments though, it makes my e-ego grow.
The fact is that every one of your post about the Steelers is meant to discredit Ben's achievements.
You seem to be the one obsessed really.:shakehead

IkeaMonkey*
01-26-2005, 03:22 PM
The fact is that every one of your post about the Steelers is meant to discredit Ben's achievements.
You seem to be the one obsessed really.:shakehead

Let's see, first you throw my name out there without me addressing you then you go through every single one of my posts looking for my opinion on Ben...Yes, im the obsessed one.

You are almost on to something, ALMOST. I'm not discrediting Roethlisberger's acheivements, I am discrediting the opinions of biased French/Pittsburgh dwelling Steelers homers. I recall you saying Ben had "INCREDIBLE!" passing skills or an arm or something like that(I dont have the time nor do I care enough to read every single post of yours to check...), but you know what, you may have been onto something. His pass to Harrison was right on the numbers.Harrison didnt even need to adjust.What a throw.

Evilo
01-26-2005, 03:31 PM
Let's see, first you throw my name out there without me addressing you then you go through every single one of my posts looking for my opinion on Ben...Yes, im the obsessed one.

You are almost on to something, ALMOST. I'm not discrediting Roethlisberger's acheivements, I am discrediting the opinions of biased French/Pittsburgh dwelling Steelers homers. I recall you saying Ben had "INCREDIBLE!" passing skills or an arm or something like that(I dont have the time nor do I care enough to read every single post of yours to check...), but you know what, you may have been onto something. His pass to Harrison was right on the numbers.Harrison didnt even need to adjust.What a throw.
No I didn't make a search. It's just something I've noticed. And you feel the need to throw a bad post about Ben everytime he's discussed (even if he's not).

I didn't say Ben had incredible passing skills. I said he was playing incredible for a rookie, and I still stand by that statement.
Maybe you should stop your lies and stick to facts.

You seem like a pretty aggressive guy (either to Ben or just about everyone on this board). Maybe you should cool down before you post? :dunno:

IkeaMonkey*
01-26-2005, 03:42 PM
No I didn't make a search. It's just something I've noticed. And you feel the need to throw a bad post about Ben everytime he's discussed (even if he's not).

I didn't say Ben had incredible passing skills. I said he was playing incredible for a rookie, and I still stand by that statement.
Maybe you should stop your lies and stick to facts.

You seem like a pretty aggressive guy (either to Ben or just about everyone on this board). Maybe you should cool down before you post? :dunno:

A.So, if you didnt make a search, how can you make a statement like, "The fact is that every one of your post about the Steelers is meant to discredit Ben's achievements." So you are lying there, strike one.

B. You said one of these two things. Roethlisberger has "an incredible arm" or "incredible passing skills". Perhaps you post on more than one board about the super incredible Ben ".500 in the playoffs" Roethlisberger, but here you said one of those two things. Lie again. Strike 2.

C. I throw facts and (unbiased) opinions out there when I post.I dont exactly see how you can claim I am aggressive when I am posting. Perhaps my non-existent webcam is on and you are watching me foam at the mouth when I post. "Aggresive" comment is irrelevant. Strike 3!

Can one of my other fans sitting in the left field bleachers put up the K sign?

ObeySteve
01-26-2005, 04:24 PM
Any list that has Favre in the top 15 needs its integrity to be seriously questioned.

PantherboyHTR
01-26-2005, 05:15 PM
Interesting Alexander isn't on the top 15 list. :dunno:

Hockeyfan02
01-26-2005, 05:24 PM
JFF, do you have a link to the list or you just have the mag and posting the top 15?

John Flyers Fan
01-26-2005, 05:40 PM
Interesting Alexander isn't on the top 15 list. :dunno:

Alexander is 23rd.

John Flyers Fan
01-26-2005, 05:41 PM
JFF, do you have a link to the list or you just have the mag and posting the top 15?

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1974947
It's on ESPN insider ... you need a subscription (I get it for free, due to ESPN error :D )

Dr Love
01-26-2005, 05:51 PM
(I get it for free, due to ESPN error )

Shhh!!!! Too many secrets.

Burberry Manning
01-26-2005, 10:32 PM
I'm sure DynamoAO will tell you that Ben could have been replaced by any NFL Europe QB and the Steelers would still have the same record.
He's about right. How did the Steelers do with Tommy Maddox on week 17 against a team looking for a playoff birth? Oh, he won. Face it, you could have put ALOT of quarterbacks into the Steeler's system and they could have brought them to a lopsided loss in the conference championship. I'd bet you that Joey Harrington could have had the same results. Obviously there is no factual way to prove this but I personally didnt see a drop off when Ben got hurt against Baltimore and in week 17. Plus, I could have had Ryan Leaf throw 3 picks against the Patriots, with the help of the best running game in football, one of the best olines, and one of the best trios of recievers.

Roethlisberger played well and did what was asked of him most of the time. He wasn't a world beater or anything but he managed the offense and usually didn't make mistakes to lose games for his team.

Evilo
01-27-2005, 12:03 AM
A.So, if you didnt make a search, how can you make a statement like, "The fact is that every one of your post about the Steelers is meant to discredit Ben's achievements." So you are lying there, strike one.

B. You said one of these two things. Roethlisberger has "an incredible arm" or "incredible passing skills". Perhaps you post on more than one board about the super incredible Ben ".500 in the playoffs" Roethlisberger, but here you said one of those two things. Lie again. Strike 2.

C. I throw facts and (unbiased) opinions out there when I post.I dont exactly see how you can claim I am aggressive when I am posting. Perhaps my non-existent webcam is on and you are watching me foam at the mouth when I post. "Aggresive" comment is irrelevant. Strike 3!

Can one of my other fans sitting in the left field bleachers put up the K sign?
Strike?:lol:
A- It's something I've noticed as I said. I read just about every NFL thread on this site, and it seems to me you've done that. Can you prove me wrong? I'm sure you can.
B- Nope I didn't say that. And I only post on this board. How am I lying? And even if I did say so (I'm pretty sure I didn't), I probably said FOR A ROOKIE.
C- Nope you don't need to see someone to know his posts are agressive. Well maybe YOU do, but normal people can read and know.

Evilo
01-27-2005, 12:05 AM
He's about right. How did the Steelers do with Tommy Maddox on week 17 against a team looking for a playoff birth? Oh, he won. Face it, you could have put ALOT of quarterbacks into the Steeler's system and they could have brought them to a lopsided loss in the conference championship. I'd bet you that Joey Harrington could have had the same results. Obviously there is no factual way to prove this but I personally didnt see a drop off when Ben got hurt against Baltimore and in week 17. Plus, I could have had Ryan Leaf throw 3 picks against the Patriots, with the help of the best running game in football, one of the best olines, and one of the best trios of recievers.

Roethlisberger played well and did what was asked of him most of the time. He wasn't a world beater or anything but he managed the offense and usually didn't make mistakes to lose games for his team.
That's absolutely forgetting the numerous drives he's put that gave the Steelers wins or good situations. I'm pretty sure an NFL Europe QB (which Maddox isn't anymore BTW) wouldn't have done that.
But hey, you want to be negative and forget all he's done in the regular season, do so. I could care less.