My own Havlat proposal:

To Ottawa ... Brenden Morrow, John Erskine and a 2004 2nd.

To Dallas ..... Martin Havlat

Now take into consideration that an unsigned Martin Havlat is worth quite a bit less then usual. The Sens would get a top left winger that plays a rugged and hard nosed game.

THN profile for 2003/2004:

Preseason projected role Morrow will continue to make noise at the NHL level in 2003-04, and could be ready to emerge as an all-around power forward.

Assets Knows how to handle the physical game and is extremely hard to knock off the puck. Will pay the price to score goals and also has sound defensive qualities.

Flaws Has to avoid taking bad penalties. Must do a better job of finishing off plays in order to stick as a top-six forward.

Career potential Power forward.

They also get a tough stay at home defenseman who's been pegged as a poor man's Derian Hatcher. Erskine is big, intimidating and reliable in his own end, his offensive upside is limited, very limited, but Erskine plays with heart and defends his teammates at all costs, should round out nicely into a #4/#5.

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here.. Thoughts?

*ducks*

umm.. more then fair ? :D

Perhaps because Havlat is behind Hossa and Alfredsson on the Sens depth chart, he hasn't had the chance to shine more, maybe that's the problem. Of course I can't praise Havlat too much, I might have to retract some of it in a subsequent thread regarding his contract negotiations. Best not to build someone up too much if you have to bring him down a peg later. And we won't try to build Havlat up as the greatest thing to be invented since sliced bread, but he is the type of player that is a crowd pleaser, a performer. His speed and offensive moves puts butts in seats and sells tickets. These players are fan favorites. You don't go trading those guys away because of silly contract negotiations.

Nice of you to add a few elements on the Dallas side, but....

So to respond to this trade proposal in few words, "In yer dreams!" :p

;)

i dont advocate trading havlat, and wouldnt, but i see no problem with this proposal, its more than fair imo

It's fair in termsof value I think, and it oes give Ottawa a hard nosed left winger, which should help them. However I simply don't see the Sens moving Havlat. Good proposal though.

Liam

not it's not overpaying, it's fair.
And I think an unsigned Halvat is worth just as much as a signed Havlat because most teams would give him what he asks for.
That said it's a fair proposal, but the bad move would simply be to trade Martin.
Alfredsson shouldn't be a Sen for too long, and Hossa and Havlat can play together on the first line or make a 1-2 punch on two lines.

The trade could work, it is fair.

Now take into consideration that an unsigned Martin Havlat is worth quite a bit less then usual.


Well i think the proposal is pretty fair...certainly addresses a team need for the Sens, but i don't agree with the above quoted statement. Havlat's value unsigned is every bit as much as it would be signed. This is not a case of a kid wanting 5 million per season...he's unsigned because, IMO, Muckler and the Sens are lowballing him.

I still wouldn't make the trade if i was the Sens. While the deal makes sense for this years run at the Cup, they are giving up a guy with a much higher ceiling, IMO.

nice to see some Ottawa bashing... wonderful stuff that makes my day....

Anywho, as others have intimated the proposal is probably fair value wise. As Patty Roy pointed out, Havlat's value isn't going to have fallen that much if at all. And if your a GM you don't move high potential pieces when the value is low if you can help it (Savard to Atlanta springs to mind).

Saying that, I can't really see Ottawa having that much of an interest in Erskine. There would absolutely would be an interest in Morrow. 2nd, well the 2nd always nice but in the grand scheme of things its not really what we want.... I don't think its the type of move Ottawa want to make.

As the others have said, nice value, but probably no.

Like I said in the Gaborik-Havlat proposal, a deal like this becomes possible if talks break down between Havlat and the Sens to the point where the organization is better off with a fresh start with a new player. In that scenario, this becomes a very feasible trade proposal. However, if things never reach that point, which I don't think it will, then the proposal isn't enough to make Ottawa move on the deal though.

Good proposal though :handclap: , but don't make it a regular thing, as I don't think you want to lose your Dallas homer label. :D

To Ottawa ... Brenden Morrow, John Erskine and a 2004 2nd.

To Dallas ..... Martin Havlat



From a recent thread (the Oil/Sens war XXIII):

If I don't see another quantity to the Sens for quality return proposal I'll be happy.

Hey look it's another quantity for quality trade. And we even get a trade pick! And we get that LW we always wanted - hmm - okay, have to think about this, as there is some quality coming back.

Morrow - three shorthanded goals last season, "arguably the Stars' best all-around playoff performer - the swift and powerful Morrow constantly creates space through his relentless determination, physical play and courageous crease work..." (McKeens). Now that's pure quality - if you ever pitch a Havlat deal include this type of a player please and thank you in advance.

The 2nd round pick, who cares.

So it comes down to John Erskine - wasn't rated as a top 60 prospect in this year's future watch, but still on everybody's radar screens - 274 PIM in 52 AHL games last year (yikes, he's a killer, and can't play for Jacques Pacnofist Martin) - TSN - "Has limited ability and must work hard on his skating, Career potential: a big green pylon". Wait a second, they actually said "No. 5 or 6 defenseman." Due to his style of play (kills opponents when he can catch them) he won't fit in with the Sens system (catch them easily and give nice greeting card) and will remain in the AHL to talk things over with Wade Brookbank.

So 2nd pick and Erskine doesn't help us. Havlat for Morrow is close, though I'll keep Havlat, who will sign something at some point. However if you start pitching us Ott in Ottawa as well, I'll have to think some more.

However if you start pitching us Ott in Ottawa as well, I'll have to think some more.

Nah.. I have Ott in even higher regard then Morrow..

I just don't see a team as deep as Ottawa at both forward and defense trading one very good piece for multiple pieces that are not quite at the same level. Ottawa is more likely to use its depth to trade multiple pieces for that one really good player, not the other way around.

It's moot, as the Senators won't trade him, and the value is probably fair in and of itself, but it still does not make sense for the Senators to trade one rising offensive player for a couple of players of lesser abilities. Does not make sense when you have their kind of depth.

I just don't see a team as deep as Ottawa at both forward and defense trading one very good piece for multiple pieces that are not quite at the same level. Ottawa is more likely to use its depth to trade multiple pieces for that one really good player, not the other way around.


The proverbial nail on the head.

Dallas gives up to much in this deal. Look at the player Morrow is, and that's reason enough to see this is too much. Morrow is a budding power forward with exceptional defensive capabilities, all at a low-low price. Havlat is good in his own regard, but adding Erskine, another promising young blueliner, and a 2nd? C'mon. Dallas gets the bone.

Ugh...you can keep Erskine. After watching that guy the other night, I wouldn't want him on my team at all. He's terrible.

Ugh...you can keep Erskine. After watching that guy the other night, I wouldn't want him on my team at all. He's terrible.

I think you mean the game vs the Colorado Avalanche or Rangers, can't remember. He wasn't playing up to his par that's for sure, but you can't judge him based on one game, that's insane. Erskine isn't flashy and he might not impress you, but he's reliable, depenadable, rugged and a potential heavyweight. Whether he sucked when you saw him play just that once is irrelevant, Brodeur has his off nights as well, I won't say he's terrible because of it.

I think you mean the game vs the Colorado Avalanche or Rangers, can't remember. He wasn't playing up to his par that's for sure, but you can't judge him based on one game, that's insane. Erskine isn't flashy and he might not impress you, but he's reliable, depenadable, rugged and a potential heavyweight. Whether he sucked when you saw him play just that once is irrelevant, Brodeur has his off nights as well, I won't say he's terrible because of it.
I've seen him before and have never been impressed. I don't see how he would fit into the Sens plans. He's older than Rachunek already and has yet to see full-time NHL action.

I have to admit...Erskine doesn't impress me either. He'd be another Hnidy for us at this point. We have guys like Platil who are younger and the same type of Dman that Erskine is.

If...and that is a big If we were to trade Havlat...a players like Morrow and Ott are good "main pieces" for a trade I'd say. But you'll have to include something better than a throw in like Erksine to make it even remotely interesting.

One thing to keep in mind as well is the fact that Alfie is a UFA at the end of this season. If we trade Havlat and lose Alfie...our #2 RW is Chris Neil for next season. this possibility isn't very...uuuhhh...exciting for me. So I'd have to say that I'd rather keep havlat and wait him out.

Dallas gives up to much in this deal. Look at the player Morrow is, and that's reason enough to see this is too much. Morrow is a budding power forward with exceptional defensive capabilities, all at a low-low price. Havlat is good in his own regard, but adding Erskine, another promising young blueliner, and a 2nd? C'mon. Dallas gets the bone.

did you notice you and your flames buddy (who also took shots at sens fans) are the only ones in this thread that feel that way? and that it was proposed by a dallas stars fan? overlooking that this is your obligatory negative rhetoric for each sens related trade thread, you are wrong.

calm down everybody :D

did you notice you and your flames buddy (who also took shots at sens fans) are the only ones in this thread that feel that way? and that it was proposed by a dallas stars fan? overlooking that this is your obligatory negative rhetoric for each sens related trade thread, you are wrong.


Sour grapes? I call 'em as I see 'em. You don't like it, go suck and egg, Spanky.

Dallas overpays. Simple as that.

not it's not overpaying, it's fair.
And I think an unsigned Halvat is worth just as much as a signed Havlat because most teams would give him what he asks for.
That said it's a fair proposal, but the bad move would simply be to trade Martin.
Alfredsson shouldn't be a Sen for too long, and Hossa and Havlat can play together on the first line or make a 1-2 punch on two lines.

A) Why would any team give Havlat what he wants? Isn't this what the owners are trying to avoid with the new CBA coming up?

B) Alfredsson shouldn't be a Sen for too long? What? The owner said he wants to keep the core together for as long as possible. The Sens aren't in financial difficulties anymore, I see no reason for Alfredsson to leave.

C) Hossa and Havlat playing together? :joker: They are both right wingers. Havlat has been tried at left wing and he stunk up the joint. Havlat would be on the 2nd line if Alfredsson was to depart the team. But I think Havlat might be deal soon for a LWer since the Sens are deep on RW and weak on LW(Schastlivy is their #1 lwer).

Erskine is worthless to Ottawa, so just chuck that part of the deal.

Morrow + 2nd for Havlat? I like Morrow a lot. Reminds me of Pat Verbeek, but Havlat reminds me of Stastny.

I doubt that Morrow will really get much better than he is right now. As has already been pointed out, the kid succeeds a lot because of hustle and grit. That's all fine and good, but his hands are not those of a first-liner.

Ottawa takes a huge risk trading Havlat, as there is a very real chance that the kid could end up being a top-10 player in the league. I seriously doubt they would cough him up for the package offered here.

As a Sharks fan, I would offer Marco Sturm + picks to get Havlat (even in light of the fact that San Jose is also light on left wingers), and given my moniker, it should be apparent how much that would hurt. But Martin is just too good to pass up.

Morrow alone for Havlat should be enough. Havlat is a fine young player, but this board tends to get a bit too goggly-eyed over young kids. Morrow is no geezer either.

However, that would be a trade, from a Stars perspective, I would not touch. Skill is not a problem in the Stars forward lineup. So I'd continue to try to make it a tough unit to play against. Morrow has been an important cog for years in the Stars' offense, and I don't think that's less important than adding in a goal scorer to the right ide.

Morrow alone for Havlat should be enough. Havlat is a fine young player, but this board tends to get a bit too goggly-eyed over young kids. Morrow is no geezer either.

However, that would be a trade, from a Stars perspective, I would not touch. Skill is not a problem in the Stars forward lineup. So I'd continue to try to make it a tough unit to play against. Morrow has been an important cog for years in the Stars' offense, and I don't think that's less important than adding in a goal scorer to the right ide.

Skill may not be an issue now, but I think Havlat's a better player to build your offence around for future years. Morrow is good, but as other's mentioned, he doesn't have the hands of a first liner. He has the work ethic and attitude to help compensate, but the skill of a player like Havlat is a better centrepiece to build around.

Havlat for Morrow straight up?
LMAO!
Miz, please, get back to your former keyboard.