Your top 15 quarterbacks in the NFL today: 2005 edition

Given overall ability, I'd like to know you guys consider to currently (Not taking into account their entire career, not taking into account amount of future potential) be the 15 best quarterbacks in the NFL.

I figured the best way to do this and come to a decision as a whole is to have people PM me their votes for their top 15. I will then use those as weighted votes, and use that to create the top 20 or so quarterbacks list.

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Some quick and simple rules:

-The lists have to be ordered, otherwise I won't count them.
-You guys have 12-24 hours to send your votes in to me through PM.....the sooner, the better. I'll put up the results once I have at least 15 votes (I'll stop at 20 if it gets to that point) and I've caculated all the votes.

Some of you may remember, but I had something exactly like this during the offseason last year. I'll post and compare the results from last year after we are done with this one.


Drew Bledsoe
Kyle Boller
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Aaron Brooks
Mark Brunnell
Marc Bulger
David Carr
Kerry Collins
Daunte Culpepper
Jake Delhomme
Brett Favre
Jay Fiedler
Rich Gannon
Jeff Garcia
Brian Griese
Joey Harrington
Matt Hasselbeck
Trent Green
Brad Johnson
Byron Leftwich
Tommy Maddox
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Josh McCown
Donovan McNabb
Steve McNair
Carson Palmer
Chad Pennington
Jake Plummer
Patrick Ramsey
Tim Rattay
Ben Roethlisberger
Vinny Testeverde
Michael Vick
Kurt Warner

Thanks in advance for PMing your selections and not posting them on the thread itself. Feel free to discuss it in the meantime before the results are posted, but don't expect your vote to count if it is not PMed to me.

Just a note, you might want to add Patrick Ramsey and Eli Manning to the list. I would take either of them over some of the other guys listed.

There's a few QBs I'd take over some on the list, Volek namely, but none of them enough to change my top 15 list.

It's a tough list to put. I mean before the season McNair would have been #2 or 3 on my list and now he barely made the list just because of uncertainty that he'll ever play again. He still made the list but even if he does return who knows how good or bad he'd be.

Here are the results. Each vote that was sent to me was used with a weighted system: QBs ranked 1st got 15 points, QBs ranked 2nd got 14 points, and so on. After that was totaled up, I found the average score for each quarterback. So, with the system, a perfect score would be a 15.00.

2005 Results

1. Peyton Manning- 14.62
2. Tom Brady- 13.62
3. Donovan McNabb- 13.08
4. Daunte Culpepper- 12.59
5. Steve McNair- 8.62

6. Michael Vick- 8.54
7. Brett Favre- 6.92
8. Trent Green- 6.46
9. Chad Pennington- 6.00
10. Matt Hasslebeck- 4.85

11. Jake Delhomme- 4.62
12. Drew Brees- 4.54
13. Marc Bulger- 3.77
14. Ben Roethlisberger- 3.39
15. Byron Leftwich- 2.85

After all the talk about Brady and comparisons he has gotten, it seems like the main football fans have spoken: They still believe, generally, that Manning is still god of the quaterback position. Brady, McNabb and Culpepper still made improvements, and shows that there is a LARGE gap between the best 4 QBs in football and everyone else.

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Last Year's results

1. Peyton Manning- 14.85
2. Steve McNair- 12.77
3. Tom Brady- 11.23
4. Donovan McNabb- 11.00
5. Daunte Culpepper- 10.77

6. Brett Favre- 10.46
7. Michael Vick- 8.54
8. Matt Hasslebeck- 7.39
9. Chad Pennington- 7.15
10. Trent Green- 5.92

11. Aaron Brooks- 5.00
12. Jake Delhomme- 3.61
13. Marc Bulger- 3.54
14. Drew Bledsoe- 2.69
15. Rich Gannon- 1.46

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The most notable improvement is obviously Drew Brees, who recieved not a single point last year. If he has another season like this one next year, I expected to see him jump up another 4+ points.

Most notable drop-offs
Steve McNair: -4.15
Brett Favre: -3.54
Matt Hasslebeck: -2.54

McNair's drop-off was certainly expected. He came off the best season of his career a year ago, and the injury and brief talks about retirement have made people doubt his current ability. For him to still get top 5 says that people still believe he will be a very effective QB, though. Favre's age and inconsistency are making a continuing downward trend that likely won't stop. As for Hasslebeck, he didn't necessarily have a BAD season, but the lack of heart from the team has made his numbers plummet.

I think I had all 15 QBs that made the list on mine.

Different orders though.

Oh, by the way....

Thanks to Rick Middleton, JCD, Lou is God, Handsome B. Wonderful, monster_bertuzzi, Hercules Rockefeller, loveshack2, Ironman18, go kim johnsson, Herby, BigStar, and Takeo21 for your votes.

i do what i can steve, do what i can ;)

Oh, by the way....

Thanks to Rick Middleton, JCD, Lou is God, Handsome B. Wonderful, monster_bertuzzi, Hercules Rockefeller, loveshack2, Ironman18, go kim johnsson, Herby, BigStar, and Takeo21 for your votes.

No Love for PredsFan...I guess that McNair #1, Volek #2 had something to do with it. ;)

Can I still pm my vote? I didnt see this thread yesterday so I had no idea you were doing it.

Obet Steve, if you got the time can you break it down, not who voted for who but what quaterbacks got what ranking like they do with awards, such as Manning got 5 first place votes, 2 2nd and a third and so on.....

Wow, nobody is giving Green the credit he deserves. he has one of the worst sets of receivers out there and all he does is pass for 4000 yards and 90+ qb ratings.

well crap, i just re read the rules of the voting....i thought you wanted us to acknowledge their past accolades.....oops :blush:

Wow, nobody is giving Green the credit he deserves. he has one of the worst sets of receivers out there and all he does is pass for 4000 yards and 90+ qb ratings.

He has hands down the best line in front of him, giving him seemingly hours to sit in the pocket and find someone open. Oh yah he has the best TE on his side too.

Id say Green is right about where he should be.

Wow, nobody is giving Green the credit he deserves. he has one of the worst sets of receivers out there and all he does is pass for 4000 yards and 90+ qb ratings.

I think ending up #8 in this poll is actually quite the compliment to Green. Considering the talent ahead of him, it's an appropriate slot.

What I don't understand is how did McNair end up at #5 given the conditions of the question? It would seem as though his health precludes high votes. I mean, the guy may not even play anymore. If we're assuming a healthy McNair, then an asterisk is in order. ;)

I'll also fight to the death before conceding Leftwich ahead of Carr and Palmer.

He has hands down the best line in front of him, giving him seemingly hours to sit in the pocket and find someone open. Oh yah he has the best TE on his side too.

Id say Green is right about where he should be.
I'm not saying that Green is the top qb, or even top 3, but I think he is borderline top 5. We were bad enough without Priest for half a year, but I fear the day green misses time. Do you think anybody is going to fear the Todd Collins-Eddie kennison connection? You can give Collins an hour every snap but he isn't ever going to succeed with the horrendous receiving core the Chiefs have, so that leaves are awesome running game. Well, since we'd have no pass attack, at all, we will see 8 people on the line every snap, and thus negating the run. Green is very under appreciated, and the need for quality receivers has been apparent for a while in KC, in fact, the best combo they have had in the last 20 years was Rison and Alexander. They have decent depth at the position, but get rid of Morton, and if you can find someone better Kennison. Sorry to go off topic, but if you can lead the afc in passing, with your only threat your tight end, then you have to have skills. His underappreciation shows a lot, there are many examples. His blatant snub at the pro-bowl this year, many posters on these boards saying I will never think of Green as a good qb, etc, etc. 8th isn't too bad, but the immediate 3 ahead of him are a complete joke in terms of being ahead of him, and statistically, green is better than Brady, but the superbowl arguement will definatly be used, especially at this point in time. I am willing to conceed Manning and Culpepper 1 and 2, but right after that, and in no particular order, it should be Green, Mcnabb and Brady. I am not too familiar with Mcnabb's stats, but I am sure green is ahead of him. Green has never had the chance to play with a good defence like Brady and Mcnabb have, and if he had, he would surely have had similar playoff success, and with that a lot more respect I think.

Wow, nobody is giving Green the credit he deserves. he has one of the worst sets of receivers out there and all he does is pass for 4000 yards and 90+ qb ratings.
But one of the best lines, the best receiving TE in the game and a fantastic receiver out of the backfield kinda help off-set that.

I mean really, he is still in the top-10. Who of the guys above him are worse?

Absolutely no way he displaces any of the top-4. McNair is getting a free pass because he was injured last year, but was the MVP the year before. Atlanta's success with Vick speaks for itself. Perhaps he moves up ONE to replace Favre...

I'm not saying that Green is the top qb, or even top 3, but I think he is borderline top 5. We were bad enough without Priest for half a year, but I fear the day green misses time. Do you think anybody is going to fear the Todd Collins-Eddie kennison connection? You can give Collins an hour every snap but he isn't ever going to succeed with the horrendous receiving core the Chiefs have, so that leaves are awesome running game. Well, since we'd have no pass attack, at all, we will see 8 people on the line every snap, and thus negating the run. Green is very under appreciated, and the need for quality receivers has been apparent for a while in KC, in fact, the best combo they have had in the last 20 years was Rison and Alexander. They have decent depth at the position, but get rid of Morton, and if you can find someone better Kennison. Sorry to go off topic, but if you can lead the afc in passing, with your only threat your tight end, then you have to have skills. His underappreciation shows a lot, there are many examples. His blatant snub at the pro-bowl this year, many posters on these boards saying I will never think of Green as a good qb, etc, etc. 8th isn't too bad, but the immediate 3 ahead of him are a complete joke in terms of being ahead of him, and statistically, green is better than Brady, but the superbowl arguement will definatly be used, especially at this point in time. I am willing to conceed Manning and Culpepper 1 and 2, but right after that, and in no particular order, it should be Green, Mcnabb and Brady. I am not too familiar with Mcnabb's stats, but I am sure green is ahead of him. Green has never had the chance to play with a good defence like Brady and Mcnabb have, and if he had, he would surely have had similar playoff success, and with that a lot more respect I think.

Green = Brady and McNabb?

I am as critical of Vick as anybody on the boards, but no way would I take Trent Green over him.

We should do a bottom 10! :handclap:

I'll also fight to the death before conceding Leftwich ahead of Carr and Palmer.

Why? While I don't think the gap between them is all that great, Leftwich looks to be the most poised and developed of the trio. He had more TDs and fewer INTs than either of them, led his team to a better record and had the worst receiving core. That said, Leftwich did have Fred Taylor making a HUGE difference in how teams gameplanned against him and a better defense keeping scores down.

Personally, I think Leftwich is on the fast-track to being an exceptional NFL QB. Carr and Palmer both show tremendous ability as well, Leftwich just looks closer to the finished product.

We should do a bottom 10! :handclap:
1) McCown
2) Brunnell (great in his day, clearly done now)
3) Fiedler
4) Testeverde
5) Rattay
6) Joey Harrington
7) Kurt Warner
8) Eli Manning (for this next year only, guy has good upside)
9) Tommy Maddox (adequate starter)
10) Griese (has his good moments)

I'm not saying that Green is the top qb, or even top 3, but I think he is borderline top 5.


You're alone in that one. I'm not bashing Green, but you'd be hard pressed to find any football pundit that ranks him in the top 5 of the league. 9th or 10th best in the league is about right.


statistically, green is better than Brady, but the superbowl arguement will definatly be used, especially at this point in time. I am willing to conceed Manning and Culpepper 1 and 2, but right after that, and in no particular order, it should be Green, Mcnabb and Brady. I am not too familiar with Mcnabb's stats, but I am sure green is ahead of him. Green has never had the chance to play with a good defence like Brady and Mcnabb have, and if he had, he would surely have had similar playoff success, and with that a lot more respect I think.

Holy homer Batman.

FOTS, professional homer.

I see Brett Favre is still getting by on rep.

I see Brett Favre is still getting by on rep.

Favre is still a pretty good QB. He had a meltdown in the play-offs, but so did Culpepper, McNabb and Manning and that isn't held against them. He did just have the 4th highest passing totals of his career and another 30-TD season. He isn't elite, or even his team's best player, anymore. Still would be starting for all but a handful of teams though.

Favre is still a pretty good QB. He had a meltdown in the play-offs, but so did Culpepper, McNabb and Manning and that isn't held against them. He did just have the 4th highest passing totals of his career and another 30-TD season. He isn't elite, or even his team's best player, anymore. Still would be starting for all but a handful of teams though.The numbers are deceptive IMO. The man quite simply can't take a hit and it hurts the team considerably, and that is not reflected in the numbers. I personally want him gone. The other guys had bad games because of the pressure put on them by the best or second best defense in the NFL. Favre had his meltdown, because he's Bret Favre.

1) McCown
2) Brunnell (great in his day, clearly done now)
3) Fiedler
4) Testeverde
5) Rattay
6) Joey Harrington
7) Kurt Warner
8) Eli Manning (for this next year only, guy has good upside)
9) Tommy Maddox (adequate starter)
10) Griese (has his good moments)


No Aaron Brooks? :D

Jake Plummer deserves to be amongst the bottom 10. His inconsistency is just maddening.

1) McCown
2) Brunnell (great in his day, clearly done now)
3) Fiedler
4) Testeverde
5) Rattay
6) Joey Harrington
7) Kurt Warner
8) Eli Manning (for this next year only, guy has good upside)
9) Tommy Maddox (adequate starter)
10) Griese (has his good moments)It's a sad testament to how far Bledsoe has fallen, that there are 4 or 5 guys on your list that I would rather have than him. Personally I want Bledsoe gone and hopefully they sign a veteran that would enable Losman to evolve into the role of starter over the next year or two. Having Bledsoe is nothing but a roadblock in Losman's development.

Where's a Chandler or Harbaugh when you need one:dunno:

He has hands down the best line in front of him, giving him seemingly hours to sit in the pocket and find someone open.

Just think of what Drew Bledsoe could do with that line in front of him.

Just think of what Drew Bledsoe could do with that line in front of him.
Thrown 10 more interceptions.

No Aaron Brooks? :D

I had him 18th.

I had him 18th.


I had him 14th but if I wasn't a Saints fan, I'd have him about where you had him.



That's pretty close since one of us thinks he's good and one of us thinks he sucks ;)

It's a sad testament to how far Bledsoe has fallen, that there are 4 or 5 guys on your list that I would rather have than him. Personally I want Bledsoe gone and hopefully they sign a veteran that would enable Losman to evolve into the role of starter over the next year or two. Having Bledsoe is nothing but a roadblock in Losman's development.

Where's a Chandler or Harbaugh when you need one:dunno:


Jeff Blake is a free agent.

The numbers are deceptive IMO. The man quite simply can't take a hit and it hurts the team considerably, and that is not reflected in the numbers. I personally want him gone. The other guys had bad games because of the pressure put on them by the best or second best defense in the NFL. Favre had his meltdown, because he's Bret Favre.

I agree with you, but looking at the QBs below him, who is better? Favre isn't elite anymore, but he is still good.

It's a sad testament to how far Bledsoe has fallen, that there are 4 or 5 guys on your list that I would rather have than him. Personally I want Bledsoe gone and hopefully they sign a veteran that would enable Losman to evolve into the role of starter over the next year or two. Having Bledsoe is nothing but a roadblock in Losman's development.

Where's a Chandler or Harbaugh when you need one:dunno:

You would? Not a chance I would.

Bledsoe isn't THAT bad. He is just an immobile pocket passer behing a line that struggled in pass protection. A problem compounded by Bledsoe's tendency to hang on to the ball waiting for a play.

The numbers are deceptive IMO. The man quite simply can't take a hit and it hurts the team considerably, and that is not reflected in the numbers. I personally want him gone. The other guys had bad games because of the pressure put on them by the best or second best defense in the NFL. Favre had his meltdown, because he's Bret Favre.

I agree. The thing about Favre is that he'll probably be about this good for a while, even if he plays until he's 50. He's good enough to get your team to the playoffs and then he'll have one of those games where he - to paraphrase Bill Simmons (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/simmons/index) - he'll decide he's just going to chuck it into triple cover 4 or five times to see what happens.

I don't know if I want him to retire just yet, but I don't want him to play much longer either.

Bledsoe isn't THAT bad. He is just an immobile pocket passer behing a line that struggled in pass protection. A problem compounded by Bledsoe's tendency to hang on to the ball waiting for a play.

It's not just that. His physical skills are diminishing. He was the most inaccurate I've seen him this past season. While he finally began to view his check down options, he remained inconsistent in actually delivering the ball on target on short to medium range passes. Moreover, his confidence and ability break against effective defenses. He is easily confused by zone schemes and usually at the mercy of inside blitzes. While his deep ball is a thing of exquisite beauty, he is a liability in almost every other aspect of the position. I'm hoping management either talks Shane Matthews out of retirement or considers Kelly Holcomb.

Why? While I don't think the gap between them is all that great, Leftwich looks to be the most poised and developed of the trio. He had more TDs and fewer INTs than either of them, led his team to a better record and had the worst receiving core. That said, Leftwich did have Fred Taylor making a HUGE difference in how teams gameplanned against him and a better defense keeping scores down.

Personally, I think Leftwich is on the fast-track to being an exceptional NFL QB. Carr and Palmer both show tremendous ability as well, Leftwich just looks closer to the finished product.

The thing I would say about Palmer that puts him above the two you have here is that he had that "taking the next step" game in Baltimore this year. Neither of the other two has had that type of game (in my recollection anyways) yet - where they beat a very good (if not as great as it used to be) defense, on the road, in December, divisional opponent, win or you're out of it, type of game.

Now, I'm a Bengal fan, but that has to mean something.

1) McCown
2) Brunnell (great in his day, clearly done now)
3) Fiedler
4) Testeverde
5) Rattay
6) Joey Harrington
7) Kurt Warner
8) Eli Manning (for this next year only, guy has good upside)
9) Tommy Maddox (adequate starter)
10) Griese (has his good moments)


Which McCown Jake, or Luke or both?? :D

Just think of what Drew Bledsoe could do with that line in front of him.

The pass protection improved ten-fold this season. It didn't help much.

We should do a bottom 10! :handclap:

1. Jake Delhommmmmme

The thing I would say about Palmer that puts him above the two you have here is that he had that "taking the next step" game in Baltimore this year. Neither of the other two has had that type of game (in my recollection anyways) yet - where they beat a very good (if not as great as it used to be) defense, on the road, in December, divisional opponent, win or you're out of it, type of game.

Now, I'm a Bengal fan, but that has to mean something.

Palmer had a big game against the Ravens, but on a week-in, week-out basis I thought Leftwich was the more consistent and better QB.

Don't get me wrong, I think Palmer has the tools and talent to be exceptional, just that Leftwich looks more polished right now. For 2005, I would like my SuperBowl chances better with Leftwich under center than Palmer. 2006 and beyond? Who knows.

1) McCown
2) Brunnell (great in his day, clearly done now)
3) Fiedler
4) Testeverde
5) Rattay
6) Joey Harrington
7) Kurt Warner
8) Eli Manning (for this next year only, guy has good upside)
9) Tommy Maddox (adequate starter)
10) Griese (has his good moments)

1. McCown
2. Brunnell
3. Fiedler
4. Testaverde
5. Rattay
6. Manning
7. Harrington
8. Warner
9. Bledsoe
10. Boller

I'm hoping management either talks Shane Matthews out of retirement or considers Kelly Holcomb.
Jim Miller was holding the clipboard for the Patriots during the playoffs this year. Maybe that experience would give him an edge in Buffalo :dunno:

No bottom ten list is complete without Aaron Brooks, Human Follie Machine. If Kyle Boller had actual recievers to throw to, he might not be as bad.

It's not just that. His physical skills are diminishing. He was the most inaccurate I've seen him this past season. While he finally began to view his check down options, he remained inconsistent in actually delivering the ball on target on short to medium range passes. Moreover, his confidence and ability break against effective defenses. He is easily confused by zone schemes and usually at the mercy of inside blitzes. While his deep ball is a thing of exquisite beauty, he is a liability in almost every other aspect of the position. I'm hoping management either talks Shane Matthews out of retirement or considers Kelly Holcomb.

To be honest, I didn't see much of Bledsoe this year and what I did was pretty uninspiring. He very well could be done. Personally, I would still give him the benefit of the doubt for another until he bottoms out entirely (ala Brunnel). I just don't think it would be difficult for any QB to shine in the current Buffalo passing game. Say Bledsoe reunites with Parcells in Dallas, I think he could be an effective QB still.

To be honest, I didn't see much of Bledsoe this year and what I did was pretty uninspiring. He very well could be done. Personally, I would still give him the benefit of the doubt for another until he bottoms out entirely (ala Brunnel). I just don't think it would be difficult for any QB to shine in the current Buffalo passing game. Say Bledsoe reunites with Parcells in Dallas, I think he could be an effective QB still.

I actually feel bad for the guy. He's one of the classiest, most honorable, most respected men in the league, but I just feel as though the modern game is passing him by. I wish him only the best wherever he ends up, but his time is done in Buffalo (at least I hope so). I mean, just look at the New England situation, they give an inexperienced QB the same team Bledsoe had, and he turns them into champions. I have a difficult time shedding the notion that the offense is constantly compensating for Bledsoe's deficiencies. It's just frustrating.

Jim Miller was holding the clipboard for the Patriots during the playoffs this year. Maybe that experience would give him an edge in Buffalo :dunno:

Whatever QBs are brought in, assuming Bledsoe is released, are competing to be the backup or insurance policy. For better or worse, I think management is set to go with J.P. as the starter. Their focus this offseason needs to be to construct an environment that puts J.P. in the best position to succeed, more specifically, to bolster the left side of the offensive line, upgrade the starting TE position, and re-sign Pat Williams.

I would actually consider putting Plummer in the top 15. I mean the guy has what? Rod Smith to work with? He gets the job done with mediocre talent around him.

Who to bump out? I dont know, but mr. overrated Ben Roethlisberger might be one.

To be honest, I didn't see much of Bledsoe this year and what I did was pretty uninspiring.

Speaking of you not seeing the Bills much this year, now that the season's over you can finish the bet.

I would actually consider putting Plummer in the top 15. I mean the guy has what? Rod Smith to work with? He gets the job done with mediocre talent around him.

Who to bump out? I dont know, but mr. overrated Ben Roethlisberger might be one.
A career 73.1 rating just doesn't do it for me. I've already voiced my opinion on him earlier so I'll leave it at that.

I would actually consider putting Plummer in the top 15. I mean the guy has what? Rod Smith to work with? He gets the job done with mediocre talent around him.

Who to bump out? I dont know, but mr. overrated Ben Roethlisberger might be one.

I don't know. Plummer isn't terrible, but he is an equal opportunity playmaker. You just never know which Plummer will show up. He is equally likely to toss 3 INTs as he is 3 TDs.

1. Jake Delhommmmmme

I'm even more impressed with Delhomme after this season than I was after the 2003 season.

I'm even more impressed with Delhomme after this season than I was after the 2003 season.Agreed. Delhomme had one year wonder written all over him coming into this season. He killed that with a fantastic year, even more impressive when you consider that for half the year they had no running game, the offensive line problems, and the loss of Steve Smith. I'm even more impressed with John Fox's coaching job this year than last year as well.

he's still a bum

1. McCown
2. Brunnell
3. Fiedler
4. Testaverde
5. Rattay
6. Manning
7. Harrington
8. Warner
9. Bledsoe
10. Boller
Boller's not that bad. He's not a top 15 QB, but no way is he bottom 10. He has no big game receivers to throw to.

Boller's not that bad. He's not a top 15 QB, but no way is he bottom 10. He has no big game receivers to throw to.

I don't know. Boller is indeed a pretty lousy QB. His receivers leave much to be desired but he does have a great all-around RB in Lewis, one of the best receiving TEs in the game in Heap and one of the best lines protecting him. Quality receiving is the only thing he is missing. For his career, I think he has nearly as many games with less than 100 yards than he does games over 200 yards. His 68.1 career rating has to be among the worst All-Time. He showed improvement, but he had only one direction to go. Put it this way, sub-par journeyman Anthony Wright played behind that exact same team and looked far better under center (albeit against some weakling defenses).

I didn't put him in my bottom-10, but I certain won't disagree with him being there. Reason he didn't make my cut is that the list included a good number of players who are now back-ups. If you took just 1 QB from each team, I think it would be tough not to have him in the bottom-10.

9) Tommy Maddox (adequate starter)

I really don't think that's fair. Is he bottom 10 of starters...of course not because he's not a starter.

If you're going to include Maddox you need to include other back-ups.

Boller would be #2 on my worst list behind on McCown.

I've never been a Boller fan and he has proven me two things in his two years in Baltimore.

1. He has a cannon arm
2. He has the accuracy of a dead yak

You're alone in that one. I'm not bashing Green, but you'd be hard pressed to find any football pundit that ranks him in the top 5 of the league. 9th or 10th best in the league is about right.




Holy homer Batman.
point out one thing that was factually false and you can call me a homer.

point out one thing that was factually false and you can call me a homer.

....

but if you can lead the afc in passing, with your only threat your tight end, then you have to have skills.

P.Manning, anyone?

I'm not going to bash you or point out the flaws of your opinions - mainly because I agree that Green is borderline top 5. But can you really argue with the guys ahead of him? The only two that you can really argue about are Vick and Favre. Vick is very overrated as a passer, but he's valuable because of his running game. Favre is - Brett Favre, but this isn't the Favre of 8 years ago. At this point Id say maybe Green should be ahead of Favre, but thats debatable no doubt.

Green has nothing to work with? Any professional quarter back could look decent with Willie Roaf, Will Shields, Casey Wiegmann, and Brian Waters protecting them.

....



P.Manning, anyone?

Look at the stats, you will see Manning did not lead the afc in passing.

....



P.Manning, anyone?

I'm not going to bash you or point out the flaws of your opinions - mainly because I agree that Green is borderline top 5. But can you really argue with the guys ahead of him? The only two that you can really argue about are Vick and Favre. Vick is very overrated as a passer, but he's valuable because of his running game. Favre is - Brett Favre, but this isn't the Favre of 8 years ago. At this point Id say maybe Green should be ahead of Favre, but thats debatable no doubt.

Green has nothing to work with? Any professional quarter back could look decent with Willie Roaf, Will Shields, Casey Wiegmann, and Brian Waters protecting them.
Grbac had the same line, only a more athletic and younger version. He certainly had his games, but there is a huge difference.

Grbac had the same line, only a more athletic and younger version. He certainly had his games, but there is a huge difference.

Elvis Grbac? I think it's safe to say Green is a bit better...

Look at the stats, you will see Manning did not lead the afc in passing.

Green beat Manning by 30 yards, wow.

Green beat Manning by 30 yards, wow.
Well, if you look at the 6 main receivers of the bunch, Harrison, Wayne, Stokely, Kennison, Morton and Gonzalez, it is something to be proud of. I bet you also didn't know Green is the only qb to have a passer rating over 90 3 years in a row.

I would actually consider putting Plummer in the top 15. I mean the guy has what? Rod Smith to work with? He gets the job done with mediocre talent around him.

Who to bump out? I dont know, but mr. overrated Ben Roethlisberger might be one.
Obviously Roethlisberger is bumped out but not for Plummer. Being in Colorado right now, I am resigned to watching the Broncos play every Sunday and he just doesn't have the brain of a top 15 QB. I mean he has alot of talent, I swear he throws on the run better than he throws in the pocket, but he is just too inconsistent. He has talent around him. A great O-line, one of the best running schemes, terrific coaching, Rod Smith and Ashlie Lelie, and didnt he have Shannon Sharpe for a year? He definately had alot of talent around him, but he never thrived with it.

I really don't think that's fair. Is he bottom 10 of starters...of course not because he's not a starter.

If you're going to include Maddox you need to include other back-ups.

Boller would be #2 on my worst list behind on McCown.

I've never been a Boller fan and he has proven me two things in his two years in Baltimore.

1. He has a cannon arm
2. He has the accuracy of a dead yak

Just using the list provided.

And yes, I do think Maddox is on the bottom ten. Doesn't mean he isn't adequate, just very limited in what he can do.

Grbac had the same line, only a more athletic and younger version. He certainly had his games, but there is a huge difference.

Um, no he most certainly did not.

Green joined the team in 2001. Wiegerman in 2001. Willie Roaf in 2002. Waters didn't start a game until 2001. There is 3/5 your line that Grbac NEVER played behind. Plus, Grbac never played a single down for Vermeil or with Preist Holmes behind him. Huge difference.

Even if you false statement was true, that Grbac sucked doesn't make Green top-5.

point out one thing that was factually false and you can call me a homer.

Done.

Look at the stats, you will see Manning did not lead the afc in passing.

Think perhaps that was because Manning was on the sidelines for the last game of the year?

Has Manning thrown more than 2 passes against the Broncos, perhaps he might, just might, have managed that 31 extra yards he needed to pass the 'Canton Here I Come!' likes of Trent Green...

I don't know. Boller is indeed a pretty lousy QB. His receivers leave much to be desired but he does have a great all-around RB in Lewis, one of the best receiving TEs in the game in Heap and one of the best lines protecting him. Quality receiving is the only thing he is missing. For his career, I think he has nearly as many games with less than 100 yards than he does games over 200 yards. His 68.1 career rating has to be among the worst All-Time. He showed improvement, but he had only one direction to go. Put it this way, sub-par journeyman Anthony Wright played behind that exact same team and looked far better under center (albeit against some weakling defenses).
Boller isn't good, but Heap missed 10 games and his WRs are perhaps the worst in the league, you can't get better if no one gets open. If he had anyone of note at WR, he'd certainly suck less.

point out one thing that was factually false and you can call me a homer.
JCD beat me to it.

I'm sure if you ask Buffaloed nice enough he'll allow you to change your name.

Green like every other QB in the league is outside of the top 4 (Manning, Brady, Mcnabb, Culpepper). Hes a borderline top 5 guy, I think if Mcnair comes back healthy next season he'll be top 5 and Green will be on the outside of the top 5. Green is somewhere between 5 and 8 at this point depending on whos ranking them. Vick, Favre, and Mcnair can make cases for a top 5 spot as well. However, I dont think any one of em are equal to the top 4. Everyone else is just a level below them.

Boller isn't good, but Heap missed 10 games and his WRs are perhaps the worst in the league, you can't get better if no one gets open. If he had anyone of note at WR, he'd certainly suck less.

And of course Ogden was out for half the season, and wasn't his normal self when he returned.

I am not too familiar with Mcnabb's stats, but I am sure green is ahead of him.

really...you sure about that?

Green 4591 yds 27 td 17 int

Mcnabb 3875 yds 31 td 8 int

more yards..great but also double the picks and less td's

:huh: a real head scratcher


also you talk about his blatent snub....well brady had 28 td and 15 int less yards
brees, 27td 7 int also these were 2 playoff teams, and thats really what the difference is

really...you sure about that?

Green 4591 yds 27 td 17 int

Mcnabb 3875 yds 31 td 8 int

more yards..great but also double the picks and less td's

:huh: a real head scratcher

And McNabb's yard total is only that low because he was benched the final two games.

And of course Ogden was out for half the season, and wasn't his normal self when he returned.
Right you are Ken. I forgot about that, that is important too. And of course Jamal Lewis was suspended for two games.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves though. Boller is a pretty ****ty Qb right now. He will probably be better in 2 or 3 years but he's crap right now.

I think Boller is a slow learner but i think that he made some strides this year. The next year or two will really dictate if he got what it takes to be a starting QB...almost makes me wonder if Chris Redman should have been kept starter.

Boller is a bad quarterback right now, but I don't think he is AS bad as his numbers would say.