NFL Offseason Thread

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Jeffrey
02-18-2005, 02:00 AM
Post everything about the UFA or the draft here...


Also.... one question what are the best CB no-franchised that could become available in the UFA market?

ObeySteve
02-18-2005, 09:37 AM
The best corners likely to be available?

Charles Woodson, Raiders
Fred Smoot, Redskins
Gary Baxter, Ravens

Only Woodson and Smoot would be capable of being a #1 corner on a good number of teams.

ObeySteve
02-18-2005, 09:41 AM
The best players about to hit the market:


1. Shaun Alexander-RB-Seattle
Profile: Alexander famously finished 1-yard back of Curtis Martin for the NFL rushing crown this season and is primed to make a lot of money on the free agent market. It is not often that a 27-year old running back with almost 6,000 yards hits the free agency with a clean break, but management is likely to tag one of their other prominent free agents and let Alexander walk with an opening offer.
Suitors: Miami, Tampa Bay, Arizona, Oakland and Seattle.


2. Edgerrin James-RB-Indianapolis
Profile: James has seen his stock rise and fall over the course of his career. He has the leading rusher in the NFL his first two seasons, and then spent the next two seasons recovering from injuries. James has bounced back the past two years with 1,200-yard seasons. James appears to be fully recovered and the Colts have said they will use their franchise tag in order to keep him there, but can the Colts afford the payout with their cap problems and lackluster defense? Suitors: Indianapolis, Miami, Tampa Bay, Carolina and Arizona.


3. Julian Peterson-LB-San Francisco
Profile: After missing the 2004 season with a torn Achillesí tendon, Peterson is reportedly healthy and ready to return to football. He is an unrestricted free agent after receiving the franchise tag from San Francisco before the season. The team has said that they will tag him again in an effort to work out a long-term deal if they cannot reach one soon enough. Peterson has a lot to prove, since his athleticism was a large part of his success as an outside linebacker. It also remains to be seen if he will thrive in the 49ers new 3-4 defense. There is an outside possibility that a team could offer the 49ers draft picks or players in exchange for Peterson after he is franchised.
Suitors: San Francisco, Dallas, Minnesota, San Diego, Houston and Atlanta.


4. Plaxico Burress-WR-Pittsburgh
Profile: Burress was a late-bloomer for the Steelers, but has become a favorite target of QB Ben Roethlisburger. He is primarily a deep-threat and is lazy running routes; so donít expect him to land in a strict West Coast Offense. Burress stated in the off-season that he believes his days in Pittsburgh are over. You must also remember that the team was open to trading him before and early in the season.
Suitors: Dallas, Oakland, San Diego, Atlanta, Washington, New York Jets, Baltimore and Kansas City.


5. Matt Hasselbeck-QB-Seattle
Profile: Hasselbeck has yet to live up to Mike Holmgrenís expectations, but he is the most likely of all the Seattle free agents to be given the franchise tag. Finding a proven winner at quarterback in the NFL is much harder to do than finding a running back or offensive tackle. Hasselbeck knows the offense and the players well, if they can surround him with more consistent wide receivers and a better defense, they could be primed for a playoff run.
Suitors: San Francisco, Dallas, Arizona, Detroit and Seattle.


6. Charles Woodson-CB-Oakland
Profile: After seven years in Oakland, Woodson will likely hit the free agent market this spring with a clean chance to leave. Management is tired of his act and he is tired of theirs. Predicting what owner Al Davis will do is another thing though and Woodson could still receive the dreaded tag. There will be less of an urgency to find marquee cornerbacks after teams see how well the Patriots did with no-name players, but Woodson would still be a great signing for a team looking to secure their secondary.
Suitors: New York Jets, Dallas, San Francisco, Arizona, Kansas City and Oakland.


7. Jeremiah Trotter-LB-Philadelphia
Profile: Trotter came back to life in Philadelphia after an unsuccessful year in Washington. Playing for the league minimum this season, Trotter is set to make a buck or two after a Pro Bowl season. Trotter has said that he will take a smaller deal to stay in Philly this time around and would like to retire an Eagle. We donít see Trotter leaving, but if he were to hit the market, there would be a lot of interest.
Suitors: Philadelphia, San Diego, Cleveland and Dallas.


8. Donovin Darius-S-Jacksonville
Profile: Darius is a hard-hitting veteran that has earned league-wide respect and criticism for his hard-nosed style of play. He will rack up his fair share of fines during the season, but he is an intimidating presence in the middle of the field. He was upset when the team made him their franchise player and would like to leave this off-season. The Jaguars are prepared to let him walk and he will have his choice of a few teams.
Suitors: Kansas City, Minnesota, Atlanta, Houston, Detroit, Cincinnati and Jacksonville.


9. Pat Williams-DT-Buffalo
Profile: For the teams looking at run-stuffing defensive tackles, Williams is the best on the board. He has proven himself on the inside and he has the size to play in a 3-4 or 4-3. With the lack of prominent tackles in the draft, Williams will receive a lot of attention on the open market.
Suitors: Dallas, Washington, Tampa Bay, New York Jets, Green Bay and Buffalo.


10. Edgerton Hartwell-LB-Baltimore
Profile: Hartwell is an experienced inside linebacker that has the strength to play in a 4-3 and the athleticism to play in a 3-4. Ray Lewis has overshadowed him in his career and with the Ravens switching to a 4-3; he will be on the outside looking in. Teams will be lining up to take Hartwell on once March gets here.
Suitors: Seattle, Houston, Kansas City, San Diego and Baltimore.

blah
02-18-2005, 01:51 PM
Keep an eye on the Titans. They're in cap hell and they could cut a lot of good players.

Hossa
02-18-2005, 02:06 PM
4. Plaxico Burress-WR-Pittsburgh
Profile: Burress was a late-bloomer for the Steelers, but has become a favorite target of QB Ben Roethlisburger. He is primarily a deep-threat and is lazy running routes; so donít expect him to land in a strict West Coast Offense. Burress stated in the off-season that he believes his days in Pittsburgh are over. You must also remember that the team was open to trading him before and early in the season.
Suitors: Dallas, Oakland, San Diego, Atlanta, Washington, New York Jets, Baltimore and Kansas City.

I have a feeling Jacksonville will be in the thick of the Burress bidding war, if there is one. Jimmy Smith's 36, and Reggie Williams is only 21. Troy Edwards is the only other notable reciever around, and they have a ton of cap space, a young QB with a heck of an arm and a solid running game. Could be a good fit. I have a feeling Jacksonville will get either Porter or Burress.

Ironman18
02-18-2005, 02:11 PM
You know I would be wary of Burress not because I dont like him cause I do. The thing is that more often than not big FA WR signings arent as great as they sound when they are signed. There are more like Peerless Price (shoulda stayed in Buffalo) than Terrell Owens when it comes to big price WR free agency.

JCD
02-18-2005, 02:21 PM
KC, Chicago or Baltimore make more sense for Burress. Three teams where he would be the undisputed #1 receiver. KC especially, where there is enough talent around him to make him look good.

Personally, I think Burress is a bust waiting too happen. He isn't relaible enough to be a go-to threat. Way to many drops and not versatile enough.

Enoch
02-18-2005, 02:43 PM
Keep an eye on the Titans. They're in cap hell and they could cut a lot of good players.

Yep - I expect Derrick Mason and Samari Rolle to be shopped at the combine. Andre Dyson will be gone this year as well. Could see Fred Miller and others gone from the O-line too.

Jeffrey
02-19-2005, 12:12 AM
John abraham tagged ...
rumors about Moss going to the Jets hummm... :D

IkeaMonkey*
02-19-2005, 12:15 AM
John abraham tagged ...
rumors about Moss going to the Jets hummm... :D

Terrible rumor.

monster_bertuzzi
02-19-2005, 01:35 AM
8. Donovin Darius-S-Jacksonville
Profile: Darius is a hard-hitting veteran that has earned league-wide respect and criticism for his hard-nosed style of play. He will rack up his fair share of fines during the season, but he is an intimidating presence in the middle of the field. He was upset when the team made him their franchise player and would like to leave this off-season. The Jaguars are prepared to let him walk and he will have his choice of a few teams.
Suitors: Kansas City, Minnesota, Atlanta, Houston, Detroit, Cincinnati and Jacksonville.


Id really like the Hawks to go after Darius. Boulware had an outstanding rookie season, but he was a bit exposed by teams like the Rams when it comes to the deep threat. Already with one of the best secondaries - and one of the best FS's in Hamlin, adding Darius would really make Seattle that much better IMO.

Oh and BTW, dont expect Hasselbeck to enter the market. Word out of Seattle is since Jones was signed to the deal, they will use the franchise tag on Hasselbeck and let Alexander walk - most likely to Miami.

blah
02-19-2005, 01:56 AM
Weren't they also trying to quickly get Hasselback done so they can tag Alexander?

monster_bertuzzi
02-19-2005, 02:24 AM
Weren't they also trying to quickly get Hasselback done so they can tag Alexander?

Thats news to me. From all I've heard they were focusing on locking up Jones and Hasselbeck and letting Alexander walk. Who knows whats truly going on though.

JCD
02-19-2005, 06:28 AM
John abraham tagged ...
rumors about Moss going to the Jets hummm... :D

It would take a whole heck of a lot more than just Abraham to get Moss. Abraham is a liability against the run and the Vikes already have a fairly good 3rd down pass rusher in Johnstone.

Vic Rattlehead*
02-19-2005, 07:06 AM
I have a feeling Jacksonville will be in the thick of the Burress bidding war, if there is one. Jimmy Smith's 36, and Reggie Williams is only 21. Troy Edwards is the only other notable reciever around, and they have a ton of cap space, a young QB with a heck of an arm and a solid running game. Could be a good fit. I have a feeling Jacksonville will get either Porter or Burress.

I hope so. Williams was bad in his rookie season.

Rick Middleton
02-19-2005, 08:07 AM
The best corners likely to be available?

Charles Woodson, Raiders
Fred Smoot, Redskins
Gary Baxter, Ravens

Only Woodson and Smoot would be capable of being a #1 corner on a good number of teams.
If there are more than a few decent corners hitting the market, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Patriots trade or release Ty Law. His contract is insane (I believe it's a $12.5 million dollar cap hit this upcoming season), he's had his disagreements with management in the past, and his injuries continue to mount (gimpy ankles).

The Patriots have Tyrone Poole under contract until 2006 at $2.5 million, and Asante Samuel played well enough duing the playoffs for the Pats to pencil him in as one of the two starting corners.

Where could Law end up, you ask? Well, KC is one possibility.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/10811838.htm?1c

ObeySteve
02-19-2005, 08:22 AM
This might end up being a really weak free agent market.

Alexander, James, Hasslebeck, Woodson, and Trotter could all likely be returning to their teams next season.

Rick Middleton
02-19-2005, 09:56 AM
Where could Law end up, you ask? Well, KC is one possibility.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/10811838.htm?1c
After looking at KC's cap number (+7 million), I'd be surprised that he'd go there. Most likely the Patriots will release him and save $10 million on their cap ... which, incidentally, is the amount that they're over the projected cap as of now.

Blackjack
02-19-2005, 11:23 AM
Cap Casualties Could Include Big Names (http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=9093)

Big McLargehuge
02-19-2005, 11:44 AM
Cap Casualties Could Include Big Names (http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=9093)

I have one major problem with that list...

Jeff Hartings, Pittsburgh He still is a good player, but at age 32 he is starting to slip. With a $4.2 million base salary, he could renegotiate and get another year or two out of his career.

Starting to slip? He just made his first Pro Bowl! He is old and probably only has 2 or 3 years left in his arthritis ridden body, but as long as he's able to crouch he'll be one of the best centers in the game.

I expect Riemersma to be cut like on the list. He hasn't done crap since being signed and has a fairly decent sized contract.

Jerome Bettis will never be cut by the Steeelers. If he's gone it'll be because Bettis decided to retire, not because the Steelers cut him.

Wish they would have posted the defensive side and not just the offense. I expect Chad Scott to be a cap casualty. He's an average corner and is due something near 4.85 million next season.

Fish on The Sand
02-19-2005, 05:33 PM
After looking at KC's cap number (+7 million), I'd be surprised that he'd go there. Most likely the Patriots will release him and save $10 million on their cap ... which, incidentally, is the amount that they're over the projected cap as of now.
Peterson has said the Chiefs will have enough room to land 3 defensive starters and be under the cap.

Thornton97
02-19-2005, 05:45 PM
No way Seattle lets Alexander walk. He is an absolute stud--as evidenced by his stats; they'll sign Hasslebeck quickly and tag him. Definitely a top five RB in the league--had to name ones better than him. LT....hummm....I'm stuck....

Count of DannyKristo
02-19-2005, 06:14 PM
Are there any good left tackles that will be available?

Jacksonville needs one bad if they want Leftwich to avoid dying in the middle of a game.

ATG
02-19-2005, 07:02 PM
Keep an eye on the Titans. They're in cap hell and they could cut a lot of good players.

May I ask why? They only big money players should be Kevin Carter,Mason,Mcnair and Rolle (not counting o-line). They lost Kearse and George. So what's up?

monster_bertuzzi
02-19-2005, 10:56 PM
Are there any good left tackles that will be available?

Jacksonville needs one bad if they want Leftwich to avoid dying in the middle of a game.

Tra Thomas

ObeySteve
02-19-2005, 11:03 PM
Tra Thomas

Um, no. Perhaps you're thinking of Mayberry (who is a left guard)?

Enoch
02-20-2005, 01:41 AM
May I ask why? They only big money players should be Kevin Carter,Mason,Mcnair and Rolle (not counting o-line). They lost Kearse and George. So what's up?

We have lost a steady stream of elite players for years now - The reason we are in the worst cap trouble of anyone in the league *22 million or so over the limit heading into March 1st* is all the restructring and continual signing of mediocre to long term/bad deals....

Fred Miller counts for 9 million in the coming year
Keven Carter is 13+ million.....

Ridiculous.....

monster_bertuzzi
02-20-2005, 01:45 AM
We have lost a steady stream of elite players for years now - The reason we are in the worst cap trouble of anyone in the league *22 million or so over the limit heading into March 1st* is all the restructring and continual signing of mediocre to long term/bad deals....

Fred Miller counts for 9 million in the coming year
Keven Carter is 13+ million.....

Ridiculous.....

Carter I can somewhat understand, but Fred Miller? :lol

Enoch
02-20-2005, 01:50 AM
Carter I can somewhat understand, but Fred Miller? :lol

Long-term, backloaded contracts

:shakehead

From the Tennessean: http://www.tennessean.com/sports/titans/archives/05/01/65903500.shtml?Element_ID=65903500

Titans target six big names to beat cap

By JIM WYATT
Staff Writer



After weeks of hand wringing and number crunching, the Titans have decided to repair their salary cap dilemma by releasing some of the team's best and most popular players.

Barring last-minute changes, wide receiver Derrick Mason, cornerback Samari Rolle and defensive tackle Kevin Carter will be cut. Tackle Fred Miller, fullback Robert Holcombe and kicker Joe Nedney are expected to be cut as well.
The official announcement could come as early as tomorrow.





The Titans also have decided not to exercise their options on the contracts of tight end Shad Meier and wide receiver Eddie Berlin, making both players unrestricted free agents.

The number of releases, amount of money involved and the star power of the players make it the most dramatic round of cuts since the team moved to Tennessee in 1997.

The moves are part of the team's efforts to get below the NFL's salary cap by the league's March 2 deadline. The Titans entered the offseason $27 million over the cap, easily the highest figure in the league.

Over the past several weeks no attempts have been made to redo the contracts of the players scheduled to be cut, while several other players are having their contracts restructured.

Titans owner Bud Adams recently approved the plan to get under the salary cap after multiple discussions with team officials.

Titans General Manager Floyd Reese has hinted since the end of the season that a wave of painful cuts may be required to fix the team's salary cap problems, while Coach Jeff Fisher was more reluctant publicly to part ways with some of the veterans in the wake of a 5-11 season.

But barring any aggressive, last-minute deal-making by the players and their agents, the cuts will be made.

........

The decision to release Rolle, drafted by the team in 1998 and considered one of the NFL's top cover corners, was especially difficult for Titans officials.

The release has nothing to do with Rolle's arrest on domestic assault charges last week and everything to do with his $9.81 million salary cap figure for 2005. Rolle, who was selected to the Pro Bowl in 2000, is scheduled to make a base salary of $5.5 million and a roster bonus of $500,000 this year.

Mason also will be hard to replace. He's the first player in Oilers/Titans history to record four consecutive 1,000-yard seasons, which included a career-high 96 receptions for 1,168 yards and seven touchdowns in 2004.

But Mason is scheduled to make $4.7 million this year between base salary ($3.2 million) and roster bonus ($1.5 million). The Oilers drafted Mason in 1997.

Carter, a 10-year veteran signed by the Titans in 2001, will be missed on and off the field.

He played at both tackle and end the past few seasons and has become one of the team's most visible leaders. Last season, he was selected the Titans Community Man of the Year for his charitable work in the area.

Carter's salary cap figure of $13.97 million, which includes a $6.75 million base salary for '05, is the biggest on the team.

Miller, a nine-year veteran, has started at right tackle the last five seasons, but his salary cap number of $9.32 million is clearly too much for the team to handle.

There's a chance the Titans will try to re-sign Nedney, who has missed the last two seasons with injuries, and let him compete for the job against another kicker in training camp.

But Nedney's current contract calls for him to earn a $1.4 million base salary, and the Titans aren't willing to pay it. Already this offseason, the team has worked out six kickers and could sign one of them.

For now, it appears veteran safety Lance Schulters will survive the cuts, but his roster spot could be in jeopardy in June because of his high salary cap figure.

NFL teams can release players after June 1 and soften the blow to the salary cap by spreading the remaining charge over two seasons.

A salary cap figure is not necessarily a player's base salary. It's an accounting device that includes salary and various bonuses. Teams can still be charged for a player against the salary cap even after he's no longer with the team.

The Titans continue to work on restructured contracts for quarterback Steve McNair, tackle Brad Hopkins and guard Zach Piller, and are expected to re-work the contracts of linebacker Keith Bulluck, guard Benji Olson and possibly others.

The agents for each of those players have indicated they'd had some contact with the team recently.

Safir*
02-20-2005, 08:20 AM
2. Edgerrin James-RB-Indianapolis
Profile: James has seen his stock rise and fall over the course of his career. He has the leading rusher in the NFL his first two seasons, and then spent the next two seasons recovering from injuries. James has bounced back the past two years with 1,200-yard seasons. James appears to be fully recovered and the Colts have said they will use their franchise tag in order to keep him there, but can the Colts afford the payout with their cap problems and lackluster defense? Suitors: Indianapolis, Miami, Tampa Bay, Carolina and Arizona.

I can't see the Panthers signing James. RB isn't a problem for the team and even, if Davis is forced out of the game, the franchise still got Forster and Goings.

Vic Rattlehead*
02-20-2005, 09:04 AM
If Samari Rolle does get cut, I would like Dallas to go after him.

ATG
02-20-2005, 01:21 PM
Long-term, backloaded contracts

:shakehead

From the Tennessean: http://www.tennessean.com/sports/titans/archives/05/01/65903500.shtml?Element_ID=65903500

Second source http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/news_story.asp?id=115638. Well I can boldly predict the Titans won't make the playoffs next year. Hell with all this talent their cutting they may get the first overall pick next year

canuck293
02-20-2005, 02:53 PM
I'll guarantee the Patriots will not be cutting Law. He will either be traded or kept on to play the final year. They can absorb the increase in his cap #, it's only an increase of a couple million, and with the cap increasing to about 85 mill, they can do it.

I'm not saying he will be with New England next season, but he for sure will not be cut, they'll trade him or keep him!

ATG
02-20-2005, 03:28 PM
I'll guarantee the Patriots will not be cutting Law. He will either be traded or kept on to play the final year. They can absorb the increase in his cap #, it's only an increase of a couple million, and with the cap increasing to about 85 mill, they can do it.

I'm not saying he will be with New England next season, but he for sure will not be cut, they'll trade him or keep him!

They really don't need him(see playoffs) and they could use an upgrade at LB if Bruschi's football career is done

canuck293
02-20-2005, 03:44 PM
I agree that they dont need him really bad, but you can't say they dont need him, he is one of the best CB's in the league, any team needs him.

Poole may or may not be back, he is getting on in years.

Samuel proved he is ready to be a starting CB in the league, and Gay was incredibly impressive for being an undrafted rookie and stepping into such a high pressure role.

Samuel and Gay will be there, Poole maybe, that would still only be three quality CB's.

I expect them to keep Law around, and draft a good CB in one of the first 3 rounds. Then Let Law walk after this season and be in a good spot with three top young guys.

I too expect them to target a younger LB, Brushchi isn't done, I'm pretty sure of that, but regardless they are going to need to get younger at that position.

For the draft, I expect the Patriots to target LB, and OL as their most pressing needs, with a DB also coming early. But they never seem to draft for need, so we'll see how it goes.

clefty
02-20-2005, 04:30 PM
Warren Sapp could be released or at least, have his contract restrucutred along with a few other Raiders teammates:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/email/sports/10932593.htm?1c

The Raiders also have several prime candidates for restructuring or release: left offensive tackle Barry Sims ($3.1 million in 2005), backup defensive tackle John Parrella ($3 million), right guard Ron Stone ($2.2 million), left guard Frank Middleton ($2 million), backup running back Zack Crockett ($2 million), defensive tackle Ted Washington ($2 million) and defensive end Warren Sapp ($2 million).

JCD
02-20-2005, 05:31 PM
I'll guarantee the Patriots will not be cutting Law. He will either be traded or kept on to play the final year. They can absorb the increase in his cap #, it's only an increase of a couple million, and with the cap increasing to about 85 mill, they can do it.

I'm not saying he will be with New England next season, but he for sure will not be cut, they'll trade him or keep him!

No way they keep him at that price. If they don't get him to renegotiate, they will trade him. If nobody steps up (unlikely), they will cut him.

Pats don't let sentimental feelings get in the way of business. They had no problem watching Milloy walk when his cap number exceeding his contribution.

canuck293
02-20-2005, 06:21 PM
I will guarantee you they do not cut him!

I agree completly they aren't sentimental, but they won't just let one of the best corners walk like that.. yes I realise they did a similair thing with Milloy.

I will bet if they decide to let him go, which i am still not sold on, they will trade him, not cut him.

JCD
02-20-2005, 06:37 PM
I will guarantee you they do not cut him!

I agree completly they aren't sentimental, but they won't just let one of the best corners walk like that.. yes I realise they did a similair thing with Milloy.

I will bet if they decide to let him go, which i am still not sold on, they will trade him, not cut him.

I doubt it will come to that. Somebody will pony up a pick for him. CBs command more value than Safeties.

canuck293
02-20-2005, 08:52 PM
I agree, I would like to think a 2nd rounder, very much like Dillon trade to New England..

Nifty=HHOF
02-20-2005, 08:55 PM
I too expect them to target a younger LB, Brushchi isn't done, I'm pretty sure of that, but regardless they are going to need to get younger at that position.


I don't know where you're getting your info from on Tedy Bruschi (one h, not two), but check out today's Boston Herald article on him.

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=69503

Here's a preview, "Even though we're all rooting for Tedy Bruschi [news] to play for the Patriots [stats, news] again, that seems to be a very, very long shot today."

Nifty=HHOF
02-20-2005, 09:04 PM
I agree, I would like to think a 2nd rounder, very much like Dillon trade to New England..

This sounds fairly reasonable at first, but there's some important considerations. Law's base salary for 2005 is 9.75 million which would be tough for a team to pick straight up. Any team trading for Law would probably want to work out an extension before trading for him, but how much money and how many years do you want to give to a 31 yo CB coming off of a serious foot injury? Perhaps a Champ Bailey for Clinton Portis type deal might be out there (Age & contract for Age & Contract)

JCD
02-20-2005, 09:45 PM
I agree, I would like to think a 2nd rounder, very much like Dillon trade to New England..

A 2nd is being rather optimistic. Possible, as evidenced by the Brunnell trade, but a longshot.

Law is on the downside of his career, is sure to be cut if he isn't traded (Pats won't pay him 10+ mil), will command a hefty new contract and is coming off a season-ending injury. A 3rd is a lock, a 2nd is a stretch. Especially a high second. Particularly when this is supposed to be a very deep draft class for CBs.

Rick Middleton
02-21-2005, 07:54 AM
I will guarantee you they do not cut him!

I agree completly they aren't sentimental, but they won't just let one of the best corners walk like that.. yes I realise they did a similair thing with Milloy.

I will bet if they decide to let him go, which i am still not sold on, they will trade him, not cut him.
I'm fuzzy on NFL rules, but don't you have to eat some of the contract if you trade a player? Or is that dependent on when you trade a player? The way I see it, if the Pats have to take some of his contract and get a 3rd rounder, or release him outright and not get compensation but free up money they'll go with cutting him. They're $10 million over the cap as is. They don't have a lot of room to negotiate.

JCD
02-21-2005, 08:59 AM
I'm fuzzy on NFL rules, but don't you have to eat some of the contract if you trade a player? Or is that dependent on when you trade a player? The way I see it, if the Pats have to take some of his contract and get a 3rd rounder, or release him outright and not get compensation but free up money they'll go with cutting him. They're $10 million over the cap as is. They don't have a lot of room to negotiate.

You have to eat the remaining portion of a Signing Bonus. Teams have to account for every dime paid to a player. The hit for cutting a player is exactly the same as for trading him.

Rick Middleton
02-21-2005, 09:34 AM
Hmn. So if the Pats did trade him, they'd be stuck with $2.7 million in signing bonus (see http://www.patscap.com/ for Pats' cap numbers).

I agree with you JCD. If they did trade him they best they could hope for would be a late 2nd/early 3rd. Anything more would be gravy and an overpayment on the part of the team trading for him.

I guess the question remains ... who would be willing to pay Law $10 million to play next year.

Either way, I don't expect to see Law in training camp next year.

JCD
02-21-2005, 10:51 AM
Pats will get stuck with that 2.7 mil no matter what they do. They paid it, they have to eat it. Only way it comes off is if Law returns 2.7 mil of his signing bonus back to the team. I have a better chance of starting over for Brady than that happening.

No team will pay him 10-mil. He just isn't worth it. More-than-likely, he will get a new contract with whomever signs/acquires him.

Virtually no NFLers play the last years of their contracts. They are usually inflated numbers like this that force a team into action. Either the player gets cut loose as a FA, where he is free to play where-ever he likes and get a spiffy new signing bonus. Or the team renegotiates his deal (also typically with a spiffy new signing bonus). It is 'fake' money used as a negotiations ploy and not expected payment. It was actually a bit surprising that the Pats and Law didn't deal with the situation last year when the first escalator took effect. No matter what happens, you can guarentee that Law won't be playing on his current contract next season.

Griese signed a deal like that with Miami last year and the Bucs this year. First year was cheap, second year for for 5+ mil. Griese is either going to get a long-term extension from the Bucs of cut loose to find a new deal (like the Dolphins did last year).

Jared Ramsden
02-21-2005, 11:10 AM
Looks like Coles might get cut by the Redskins...........

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1996404

Troy McClure
02-21-2005, 12:20 PM
Expect the Cowboys to pick up Bledsoe.

Why? Well, to be signed here in Dallas, you have to pass at least two of three basic criteria.
1: The player must be old.
2: The player has to have played for Parcells before.
3: The player must suck.

Let's take Eddie George for example. He passed #1 and #3 last year. Vinny Interceptiverde? He passed all three and was flawless according to Bill.

Dr Love
02-21-2005, 02:59 PM
I'm hearing that the Titans are going to cut Mason and Carter a some other players in about an hour.

monster_bertuzzi
02-21-2005, 03:10 PM
One of the better UFA pools for elite WR's in a while. Burres, Mason, and now Coles.

ObeySteve
02-21-2005, 03:11 PM
One of the better UFA pools for elite WR's in a while. Burres, Mason, and now Coles.

I think "elite" is exaggerating it a bit. Mason and Coles aren't top 10 material anymore, and Burress has always had questionable work ethic.

ObeySteve
02-21-2005, 03:45 PM
It's pretty funny that the Colts said about 2 months ago that they planned to place the franchise tag on James, but it seems like there is no possibility of that now.

Enoch
02-21-2005, 04:39 PM
Titans officially announce the cutting of:

Kevin Carter - DT/DE
Derrick Mason - WR
Samari Rolle - CB
Fred Miller - RT/LT
Joe Nedney - K
Robert Holcombe - FB

All are good players, Nedney has had two injury ridden years, but he can kick very well if healthy. Holcombe is a solid blocker but not much of a runner

Carter, Mason, Rolle, and Miller are going to make some teams happy this off-season.

I'm in shock......

Let the bidding begin....Elite cover corner. Great WR. Great DT/DE........Solid RT......

Wow! I wonder if Mcnair decides to retire now that the team is being blown up.

PredsFan77*
02-21-2005, 04:41 PM
Titans officially announce the cutting of:

Kevin Carter - DT/DE
Derrick Mason - WR
Samari Rolle - CB
Fred Miller - RT/LT
Joe Nedney - K
Robert Holcombe - FB

All are good players, Nedney has had two injury ridden years, but he can kick very well if healthy. Holcombe is a solid blocker but not much of a runner

Carter, Mason, Rolle, and Miller are going to make some teams happy this off-season.

I'm in shock......

Let the bidding begin....Elite cover corner. Great WR. Great DT/DE........Solid RT......

Wow!

Thus begins the demise of the Titans....I'm glad I was able to trade Samari in the mock draft thread. :yo:

ObeySteve
02-21-2005, 04:42 PM
Over/under for Titan wins in 2005: 2.5

Enoch
02-21-2005, 04:44 PM
Over/under for Titan wins in 2005: 2.5

It all depends on if McNair is going to come back or not. He can still lead the team to victories.....but with everyone leaving:

Should he?

Nifty=HHOF
02-21-2005, 04:44 PM
Thus begins the demise of the Titans....I'm glad I was able to trade Samari in the mock draft thread. :yo:

I think you're a year late in that statement. How about, thus continues the demise of the Titans.....

ObeySteve
02-21-2005, 04:45 PM
Thus begins the demise of the Titans....I'm glad I was able to trade Samari in the mock draft thread. :yo:

Stuff like that is why this entire mock draft has become pointless.

By the way, next team to enjoy several years of success on the verge of collapsing in a year or two due to cap trouble: Colts

PredsFan77*
02-21-2005, 04:45 PM
It all depends on if McNair is going to come back or not. He can still lead the team to victories.....but with everyone leaving:

Should he?

He'll come back, I think he has enough class to let the team know his intentions before they end up getting rid of half the team.

PredsFan77*
02-21-2005, 04:47 PM
I think you're a year late in that statement. How about, thus continues the demise of the Titans.....

Injuries killed us last season, I really thought we had a slim chance to make a run at the playoffs, but losing the entire seconday,starting RB, and starting QB killed that dream.

PredsFan77*
02-21-2005, 04:48 PM
Stuff like that is why this entire mock draft has become pointless.

By the way, next team to enjoy several years of success on the verge of collapsing in a year or two due to cap trouble: Colts

Yeah, I didn't really like the fact that trades were allowed, but since they were I had to atleast try. :dunno:

Nifty=HHOF
02-21-2005, 04:54 PM
I've heard various rumors, but does anyone know when (or if it's already been released) what the cap will be next year? If not, any educated guesses?

ObeySteve
02-21-2005, 04:54 PM
For the 2005 or 2006 season?

For 2005, it'll be right around $85 million.

Nifty=HHOF
02-21-2005, 04:58 PM
For the 2005 or 2006 season?

For 2005, it'll be right around $85 million.

Thanks, that's in line with stories I've read

ObeySteve
02-21-2005, 05:00 PM
I don't know if the NFL actually released an official number yet, but that's what it's calculated to be around.

Hockeyfan02
02-21-2005, 05:11 PM
Tennessee Titans 2005 offseason=49ers 2004 offseason. I know what its like to see your team gutted. :(

benji
02-21-2005, 05:21 PM
One of the better UFA pools for elite WR's in a while. Burres, Mason, and now Coles.
The Seahawks need one of these guys.

monster_bertuzzi
02-21-2005, 05:25 PM
The Seahawks need one of these guys.

Not really. Well of course if there wasn't a salary cap they would, but I think Holmgren is pretty happy with Jackson and Robinson. Sure they drop a lot of passes - but Jackson was I think top 10 in terms of a statistical season last year. Robinson is - well, one of the most gifted receivers around but he is a bit of a head case.

Fish on The Sand
02-21-2005, 05:33 PM
Would the Chiefs be interested in Carter and/or Rolle? And by interested I mean legitimat interest, not yeah who wouldn't like to have them.

Vic Rattlehead*
02-21-2005, 05:39 PM
I'd love to see the Jags go after Mason. I'd also love to see the Cowboys go after Rolle.

monster_bertuzzi
02-21-2005, 05:40 PM
Would the Chiefs be interested in Carter and/or Rolle? And by interested I mean legitimat interest, not yeah who wouldn't like to have them.

They're after Law - assuming the Patriot's let em' go.

Vic Rattlehead*
02-21-2005, 05:43 PM
Expect the Cowboys to pick up Bledsoe.

Why? Well, to be signed here in Dallas, you have to pass at least two of three basic criteria.
1: The player must be old.
2: The player has to have played for Parcells before.
3: The player must suck.

Let's take Eddie George for example. He passed #1 and #3 last year. Vinny Interceptiverde? He passed all three and was flawless according to Bill.

Yes, we know. You are a self-hating Cowboys fan. GET OVER IT! I didn't see Eddie George get a lot of playing time after Jones outplayed him. Parcells said he was going to get a CB in free agency, so I expect one of Lucas, Baxter, Smoot, or even Rolle to be a Cowboy next tear.

ObeySteve
02-21-2005, 05:45 PM
Yes, we know. You are a self-hating Cowboys fan. GET OVER IT! I didn't see Eddie George get a lot of playing time after Jones outplayed him. Parcells said he was going to get a CB in free agency, so I expect one of Lucas, Baxter, Smoot, or even Rolle to be a Cowboy next tear.

Woodson?

Vic Rattlehead*
02-21-2005, 05:46 PM
Woodson?
Possibly, but he might want a huge contract.

Enoch
02-21-2005, 05:57 PM
Possibly, but he might want a huge contract.

Lucas is probably the best bet. Baxter and Smoot will likely get franchised...

Troy McClure
02-21-2005, 05:57 PM
Yes, we know. You are a self-hating Cowboys fan. GET OVER IT!
Not self hating. Parcells hating. The guy has no plan, and it shows with every stupid move he makes.

ObeySteve
02-21-2005, 06:02 PM
Lucas is probably the best bet. Baxter and Smoot will likely get franchised...

No they won't.

Count of DannyKristo
02-21-2005, 06:31 PM
I'd love to see the Jags go after Mason. I'd also love to see the Cowboys go after Rolle.

And I'd love the Jags to go after Rolle and Coles. :thumbu:

monster_bertuzzi
02-21-2005, 06:56 PM
Lucas is probably the best bet.

Keep dreaming, Seattle will lock up Lucas faster than Nick Nolte. Bobby Tayler on the other hand...

Enoch
02-21-2005, 07:04 PM
Keep dreaming, Seattle will lock up Lucas faster than Nick Nolte. Bobby Tayler on the other hand...

With what money? If they do, I'm assuming one of Hasselbeck or Alexander is gone.

monster_bertuzzi
02-21-2005, 09:16 PM
With what money? If they do, I'm assuming one of Hasselbeck or Alexander is gone.

Hasselbeck is about to be franchised. And yes, Alexander is on his way to Miami.

ObeySteve
02-21-2005, 09:55 PM
Hasselbeck is about to be franchised. And yes, Alexander is on his way to Miami.

Um, if Edgerrin James isn't, you mean.

JCD
02-21-2005, 10:03 PM
Keep dreaming, Seattle will lock up Lucas faster than Nick Nolte. Bobby Tayler on the other hand...

How? Seahawks have WAY too many FAs to deal with and gave Taylor a healthy signing bonus last summer. Lucas is on the market.

Gibsons Finest
02-21-2005, 10:06 PM
Um, if Edgerrin James isn't, you mean.

I'm starting to think Miami will go for Surtain+something for James. He'd be alot more expensive on the open market. I think they prefer James over Alexander, anyway.

Detox
02-22-2005, 02:59 AM
I'm starting to think Miami will go for Surtain+something for James. He'd be alot more expensive on the open market. I think they prefer James over Alexander, anyway.
Fully expect Arizona to overpay for Alexander

JCD
02-22-2005, 06:36 AM
Fully expect Arizona to overpay for Alexander

Henry for Shelton makes more sense.

Big McLargehuge
02-22-2005, 08:40 AM
Fully expect Arizona to overpay for Alexander

As much as I'd love to see that(the Cardinals are my very, very distant second favorite team...the only reasoning behind it is I have absolutely no reason to hate them because the Steelers have a positive history with the franchise(Card-Pitt team in 1944 was a merger between the franchise during WWII) and there haven't been any bridges burned...which is extremely rare since the Steelers have pissed off about 25 teams at some point in their history.

But I just can't see Bill Bidwell spending any money on the team. Problem is once Bidwell croaks there's another Bill Bidwell in line for ownership. :banghead:

Times like this that really make happy to have the Rooneys.

TVanek26*
02-22-2005, 11:12 AM
Henry for Shelton makes more sense.


Which is supposedly going to be a done as soon as trades are announced...I really don't know all that much on him,except he lost the starting job this year...anyone know anything about him?

Dr Love
02-22-2005, 11:16 AM
Not self hating. Parcells hating. The guy has no plan, and it shows with every stupid move he makes.
Troy is the only sensible Cowboys fan in Texas.

JCD
02-22-2005, 11:32 AM
Which is supposedly going to be a done as soon as trades are announced...I really don't know all that much on him,except he lost the starting job this year...anyone know anything about him?

It seems, like so many others in Arizona, his time as a back-up was short-lived. He is listed as havign started 9 or 12 games this year. Though I don't know how accurate that is. It looks like he was starting again in October and kept the job under ending up on the IR with an injury.

From what I know of him, he is a decent (not great, not bad) tackle. But purely a tackle. I guess, despite his size, he isn't a good mauler so is a poor fit at guard. His wingspan and feet make him a better tackle anyway. I think he is better than Jennings, but won't be mistaken for an All-Pro. Then again, he wasn't in a very good situation in Arizona and could blossom with better coaching. I was hoping the Vikes would go after him last summer and let Rosenthal go.

In all, I think it is a decent trade for both teams. Tough to get value on Henry in a flooded market, but the Bills pick up a key piece of the puzzle signed relatively cheap for several more years. Cards get the starting RB they need at the expense of a surplus tackle.

Kvashinator12
02-22-2005, 01:10 PM
Jets thinking about bringing back Coles if the price is right. I would love to see him back in the green. Him and Pennington were great together.

Big McLargehuge
02-22-2005, 01:11 PM
Jerry Porter is off the market. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1997221)

Gibsons Finest
02-22-2005, 01:21 PM
Wierd Porter would sign with Oakland. They're not going anywhere, and he said he was going to test the market. They must have gaven him a nice cheque.

The RB market is reportedly gone from pretty good to not good at all. It looks like James will indeed be franchised, and there's a report going around that Hasselbeck has agreed on a deal with Seattle, so now they can franchise Alexander. Any team, like Miami, could trade for either, obviously, but the FA market for RBs has almost disappeared if these reports are true.

BAuldie
02-22-2005, 01:44 PM
TSN has confirmed the report of Hasselback re-signing.. obviously now they can franchise Alexander.

Jared Ramsden
02-22-2005, 02:07 PM
Jets thinking about bringing back Coles if the price is right. I would love to see him back in the green. Him and Pennington were great together.

Coles, Moss and McCariens.....that would give Pennington alot to work with. If Detroit does indeed release Hakim(I'd like to see him restructure and stick around), and Mariucci has said he wants to get a real good reciever because of Rogers and Williams durability issues, I would love to see Coles in Detroit....but I expect Coles will look to go somewhere where he will be more than a fall back.......

benji
02-22-2005, 03:21 PM
Not really. Well of course if there wasn't a salary cap they would, but I think Holmgren is pretty happy with Jackson and Robinson. Sure they drop a lot of passes - but Jackson was I think top 10 in terms of a statistical season last year. Robinson is - well, one of the most gifted receivers around but he is a bit of a head case.
True, what I really meant was more along the lines of "it would be nice if they could get one of these guys". I mean look at how their season ended. Jackson and Robinson are good, but they're not "go to" recievers. If they had that go to guy, it would be enough to get them over the hump.

Vic Rattlehead*
02-22-2005, 04:10 PM
Not self hating. Parcells hating. The guy has no plan, and it shows with every stupid move he makes.
The Jones trade was very good. We have a first rounder this year, and a RB of the future in Julius Jones, who on occasion, looked better than RB's drafted before him. Ahhh, but you can't take of your biased coloured glasses to see that. :D

Vic Rattlehead*
02-22-2005, 04:12 PM
Hasselbeck is about to be franchised. And yes, Alexander is on his way to Miami.

Nice call there. Alexander was the one that was franchised, and Hasselbeck was signed to a long contract.

ObeySteve
02-22-2005, 05:01 PM
This has become one of the most boring free agent markets I've ever seen.

clefty
02-22-2005, 05:12 PM
Expect the Bucs to let a few players go in the next few days. From the Tampa Tribune:

http://bucs.tbo.com/bucs/MGBUKXIJH5E.html
Quarterback Brad Johnson, fullback Mike Alstott, cornerback Mario Edwards and linebackers Ian Gold and Shelton Quarles are among the players many believe could be let go as soon as today.

That link also suggests that Simeon Rice could be on his way out of Tampa Bay. Though Bruce Allen denies it, Rice's agent says the Bucs will have to release him.

``Simeon Rice has a $10 million-and-change cap number on him,'' Condon told Kansas City's KCSP radio. ``They [the Bucs] can't handle that number. They're going to have to release him; [or] they're going to have to redo his contract.

As a Bucs fan, it would be difficult to see Alstott and Rice go elsewhere, but the team is in trouble with the salary cap and cuts have to be made. And as big a Mike Alstott fan as I am, even I know he's not how he used to be before his neck injury. I still think he brings some usefulness to the table, though it could have to be with another team. That is, if he doesn't retire.

Fish on The Sand
02-22-2005, 05:22 PM
They're after Law - assuming the Patriot's let em' go.
We need Carter too, we need somebody up front. By name our line should be great, but Sims and Hicks are underachieving big time. Adding Carter and if we can get Allen to repeat his performance from last year. oh I just read some good news. Holliday is cut. What a useless addition that was. Now there is a roster spot open for Carter :D

Dr Love
02-22-2005, 05:42 PM
FOTS, Kevin Carter is most likely going to re-sign with the Titans.

Fish on The Sand
02-22-2005, 05:57 PM
FOTS, Kevin Carter is most likely going to re-sign with the Titans.
damnit I hope not. He has worked with Vermeil before and won a superbowl then, the Chiefs could be in position for a superbowl next season, especially with the acquisition of a pass rusher/run stopper like that. Holliday is gone(what a waste of space), and Allen was a pleasant surprise last year. Combined with the return of Barber and hopefully some help with Law or Rolle in the secondary the defence could be top 15, and strong enough to make the Chiefs a championship team. Peterson has run the team lately to make this the year with regards to the salary cap, so expect the Chiefs to go all out.

Troy McClure
02-22-2005, 06:15 PM
The Jones trade was very good. We have a first rounder this year, and a RB of the future in Julius Jones, who on occasion, looked better than RB's drafted before him.
Jones does look great. I can't wait to see him get a full season of work next year.

But the trade was a bad one. We delayed a first round pick for no reason just to trade up and get Jones. The Cowboys could have gotten that 2nd rounder another way without giving up their first last year. That delay cost the team a year of development on a good player. Now, they're going to use these two first round picks and go into the season with two good rookies instead of a rookie and a 2nd year player.

Hockeyfan02
02-22-2005, 06:21 PM
Hopefully the 49ers can lock Peterson up with a long term deal. I feel really bad for my friend whos a Dolphin fan. He's been excited for weeks about the Phins getting an elite RB and now both Edge and Alexander are off the market. Looks like that pretty much gurantees the Phins will be taking Benson in the draft.

IkeaMonkey*
02-22-2005, 06:23 PM
They both really arent off the market. All Miami's gotta do is trade for em.

Hockeyfan02
02-22-2005, 06:45 PM
Not technically, but are the Dolphins going to trade the 2nd overall pick and their 1st round pick which is likely to be top 10 for either one of those guys? It's not out of the question but I really dont see it happening.

IkeaMonkey*
02-22-2005, 06:54 PM
They dont need to trade first rounders for him. They give up the picks if they sign an offer sheet with the player. They can trade for the player and negotiate a contract with him after that, I believe.

monster_bertuzzi
02-22-2005, 06:55 PM
Nice call there. Alexander was the one that was franchised, and Hasselbeck was signed to a long contract.

Dont shoot the messanger! I was just going by what 'The Score' said.

ObeySteve
02-22-2005, 07:04 PM
Hopefully the 49ers can lock Peterson up with a long term deal. I feel really bad for my friend whos a Dolphin fan. He's been excited for weeks about the Phins getting an elite RB and now both Edge and Alexander are off the market. Looks like that pretty much gurantees the Phins will be taking Benson in the draft.

I could have sworn the Colts have not officially said anything about franchising James since it was brought it about 2 months ago.

IkeaMonkey*
02-22-2005, 07:08 PM
Also remember, Bungles tagged Rudi Johnson, who said he wants a long term deal or he wont play in Cincy next season.

IkeaMonkey*
02-22-2005, 07:09 PM
I could have sworn the Colts have not officially said anything about franchising James since it was brought it about 2 months ago.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-colts-james&prov=ap&type=lgns

TVanek26*
02-22-2005, 07:12 PM
News is Bledsoe signed with Dallas.....muahahahahaha :lol:

ObeySteve
02-22-2005, 07:14 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-colts-james&prov=ap&type=lgns

Kinda strange that ESPN.com and NFL.com haven't even slightly mentioned it.

IkeaMonkey*
02-22-2005, 07:18 PM
Kinda strange that ESPN.com and NFL.com haven't even slightly mentioned it.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/IND/8219547

http://www.colts.com/

Vic Rattlehead*
02-22-2005, 07:20 PM
http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/IND/8219547

http://www.colts.com/

:lol:

ObeySteve
02-22-2005, 07:21 PM
That Colts.com story was not up as of like, an hour ago. :joker:

Vic Rattlehead*
02-22-2005, 07:23 PM
Very glad that the Jaguars franchised Darius. All we need is two better DE's and the defence continues to dominate. The draft should help.

Bledsoe is still better than Testaverde, but the Cowboys can't keep replacing their QB's with veterans. They need to find a QB that cna play for atleast three to five consecutive season. Doesn't look like Parcells has much faith in Henson, and would rather get players that played for him. This needs to stop if Dallas want to make the playoffs.

Vic Rattlehead*
02-22-2005, 07:25 PM
Players Franchised:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1997296

Team Player Designation Tender
Cincinnati RB Rudi Johnson Franchise $6.323 million
Indianapolis RB Edgerrin James Franchise $6.323 million
Oakland CB Charles Woodson Franchise $10.529 million
Jacksonville S Donovin Darius Franchise $4.968 million
New England K Adam Vinatieri Franchise $1.787 million
New Orleans DE Darren Howard Franchise $6.666 million
N.Y. Jets DE John Abraham Franchise $6.666 million
Philadelphia DT Corey Simon Franchise $5.134 million
San Diego QB Drew Brees Franchise $8.078 million
San Francisco LB Julian Peterson Franchise $5.95 million
St. Louis OT Orlando Pace Franchise $8.4 million
Seattle RB Shaun Alexander Franchise $6.323 million
Green Bay TE Bubba Franks Transition $2.095 million

Gibsons Finest
02-22-2005, 07:25 PM
Hopefully Miami and Indy could work out a trade to get James. Maybe, if Dallas wanted to badly get into the top 3, they traded their two first rounders to Miami for 2nd overall. Miami could then flip Dallas' first and Surtain to Indy for James and maybe something extra. If Indy wanted an RB, they could easily just trade their second rounder to Buffalo for Henry.

Maybe that works out way to well for Indy, but I think everyone does good in that deal. Miami still has a 1st rounder, and they also have their big name running back. An offensive lineman from Indy might also be included if they wanted one. Dallas has one of the top picks, enabling them to pick pretty much anyone they want. They could also trade down and get a veteran player with another pick, in hopes of a wildcard berth next season. Indy gets a top pick and a corner they need, but lose James, which could hurt their offense. Hopefully, if this did happen, one of the Auburn backs could fall to them, and they could draft either Brown or Williams.

Call it a possibility, call it a pipedream, it's just something that I think could help these three teams out. But I doubt it happens. Indy will probably keep James, and Miami will probably sign Lamont Jordan to be their starter, or use the 2nd overall pick on Benson.

Vic Rattlehead*
02-22-2005, 07:26 PM
Players Franchised:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1997296
Easy to see that Woodson is overpaid bigtime. Raiders should have let him go.

Vic Rattlehead*
02-22-2005, 07:27 PM
Hopefully Miami and Indy could work out a trade to get James. Maybe, if Dallas wanted to badly get into the top 3, they traded their two first rounders to Miami for 2nd overall. Miami could then flip Dallas' first and Surtain to Indy for James and maybe something extra. If Indy wanted an RB, they could easily just trade their second rounder to Buffalo for Henry.

Maybe that works out way to well for Indy, but I think everyone does good in that deal. Miami still has a 1st rounder, and they also have their big name running back. An offensive lineman from Indy might also be included if they wanted one. Dallas has one of the top picks, enabling them to pick pretty much anyone they want. They could also trade down and get a veteran player with another pick, in hopes of a wildcard berth next season. Indy gets a top pick and a corner they need, but lose James, which could hurt their offense. Hopefully, if this did happen, one of the Auburn backs could fall to them, and they could draft either Brown or Williams.

Call it a possibility, call it a pipedream, it's just something that I think could help these three teams out. But I doubt it happens. Indy will probably keep James, and Miami will probably sign Lamont Jordan to be their starter, or use the 2nd overall pick on Benson.


Won't work. Dallas would rather keep their two first round picks, seeing as they have more than one need.

Fish on The Sand
02-22-2005, 07:36 PM
I think you should be allowed to trade your franchise and transition tags. The Chiefs won't be using them this year, so I see no reason why they can't trade them for draft picks. ;)

Hobey Baker
02-22-2005, 07:43 PM
Ed Werder is reporting that the Cowboys and Bledsoe have agreed to a deal.

TVanek26*
02-22-2005, 09:51 PM
With those 3 RB's franchised,Henry's value went up.

JCD
02-22-2005, 09:55 PM
With those 3 RB's franchised,Henry's value went up.
Perhaps. The number of teams interested went down by just as many.

Henry is certainly now the catch at RB. However, not that many teams left angling for a starting RB and a good number of them will/could address that need on draft day.

I think a 2nd is best-case-scenario. A 3rd is a safe bet.

JCD
02-22-2005, 09:56 PM
Ed Werder is reporting that the Cowboys and Bledsoe have agreed to a deal.

I may be a minority, but I think it was a good move. Bledsoe was the best of a bad lot at QB. He will have some talent around him in Dallas and a coach that knows how to use him. No matter what, he is certainly the best QB they have had since Aikmen retired.

ObeySteve
02-22-2005, 09:56 PM
Perhaps. The number of teams interested went down by just as many.

Henry is certainly now the catch at RB. However, not that many teams left angling for a starting RB and a good number of them will/could address that need on draft day.

I think a 2nd is best-case-scenario. A 3rd is a safe bet.

Eagles got a 2nd rounder from Miami for our 3rd string quarterback, so you never know.

JCD
02-22-2005, 09:59 PM
Eagles got a 2nd rounder from Miami for our 3rd string quarterback, so you never know.

That was a widely mocked trade at the time. As was a 3rd for Gordon.

The Dolphins caught a nasty case of the Bengels last year. Tough to bank on another team being that mentally incapacitated again.

TVanek26*
02-22-2005, 10:31 PM
I may be a minority, but I think it was a good move. Bledsoe was the best of a bad lot at QB. He will have some talent around him in Dallas and a coach that knows how to use him. No matter what, he is certainly the best QB they have had since Aikmen retired.

Not nearly as much as he had in Buffalo.All 3 of Bledsoe's seasons he has had a great RB,and had some good WR's,and he failed to make the playoffs.

JCD
02-22-2005, 10:35 PM
Not nearly as much as he had in Buffalo.All 3 of Bledsoe's seasons he has had a great RB,and had some good WR's,and he failed to make the playoffs.

Also had some bad offensive lines (pass blockign anyway) and some less-than-stellar coaching. If you are an immobile pocket-passer like Bledsoe, having a good pass blocking line is essential.

Bledsoe certainly declined, and the WR/RB talent was much better in Buffalo, but I think Dallas is a good fit. Decent line, coach who knows how to play to his strengths and adequate players around him.

Enoch
02-22-2005, 11:26 PM
Also had some bad offensive lines (pass blockign anyway) and some less-than-stellar coaching. If you are an immobile pocket-passer like Bledsoe, having a good pass blocking line is essential.

Bledsoe certainly declined, and the WR/RB talent was much better in Buffalo, but I think Dallas is a good fit. Decent line, coach who knows how to play to his strengths and adequate players around him.

I agree.

Then again, I also believe you should not let QBs roast if they aren't ready.

:dunno:

Takeo
02-22-2005, 11:51 PM
The Bills now know what the Pats knew all along. And Dallas is still stupid enough to fall for it. I hope they enjoy Bledsoe and all his false hope and bull****.

TVanek26*
02-22-2005, 11:57 PM
The Bills now know what the Pats knew all along. And Dallas is still stupid enough to fall for it. I hope they enjoy Bledsoe and all his false hope and bull****.


Too bad we couldn't get a 1st like the Pats did with us :lol

Takeo
02-23-2005, 12:20 AM
Too bad we couldn't get a 1st like the Pats did with us :lol

Yeah, well we robbed Atlanta blind in return so I guess it all evens out! :D

TVanek26*
02-23-2005, 12:23 AM
Yeah, well we robbed Atlanta blind in return so I guess it all evens out! :D

Yes we did....Peerless barely has more yards in his 2 seasons in Atlanta then his last season with us.E-Mo really made him.

Starscream
02-23-2005, 06:23 AM
http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/news_story.asp?id=115831

me personaly I don't like it, sure its a slight improvement over Testaverde but not that much of an improvement

plus Henson is suppose to be the future, give him his shot and if it doesn't work draft a QB next year.

JCD
02-23-2005, 06:30 AM
Henson has shown nothing. That Parcells wouldn't even give him a look even after the season was lost if a telling Omen. If Bledsoe doesn't pan out, they can still turn to Henson as need be.

Bledsoe is a notable upgrade over Testeverde and gives the Cowboys their best starter since Aikmen retired. Not that there is a whole lot of competition thoug.

JCD
02-23-2005, 06:42 AM
I agree.

Then again, I also believe you should not let QBs roast if they aren't ready.

:dunno:

For the price the Bills paid, they have to play Losman.

Troy McClure
02-23-2005, 07:11 AM
Bledsoe is still better than Testaverde, but the Cowboys can't keep replacing their QB's with veterans. They need to find a QB that cna play for atleast three to five consecutive season. Doesn't look like Parcells has much faith in Henson, and would rather get players that played for him. This needs to stop if Dallas want to make the playoffs.
This is exactly why I hate Parcells and is further proof of what I was saying about him having no plan. Parcells knows he's going to retire sometime in the next couple of years, so he keeps making these stupid panic moves to try and slap together a team.

Bledsoe is a terrible move because it accomplishes nothing. Okay, now they have a warm body to take snaps. They did not improve over Vinny at all. In fact, they replaced one turnover machine with another, but Bledsoe's turnovers happen at the line of scrimmage while Vinny's happened downfield. In a battle of field position, that's not good. Mix in the two and a half sacks a game, and you have a guy who makes moving the ball a real challenge.

Hell, the Bills only saw success when they started taking the ball away from Bledsoe and giving it to McGahee. That's why they were so quick to dump Bledsoe and replace him with a guy who has thrown all of five passes.

Take a look at whatever stats or reviews you want. Bledsoe sucks, and the Cowboys are no closer to winning anything with him there.

Troy McClure
02-23-2005, 07:22 AM
Bledsoe is a notable upgrade over Testeverde and gives the Cowboys their best starter since Aikmen retired. Not that there is a whole lot of competition thoug.
Your mom would be the best starter than Aikman if she played.

Bledsoe is no better than Testeverde. The Cowboys are spinning their wheels by signing him. Just look at how Bledsoe's numbers have continued to get worse every year. At 33, he isn't going to improve.

Ronnie Bass
02-23-2005, 08:00 AM
Wow. Parcells is really turning this around with America's Team, this should make them the Super Bowl favorite coming out of the NFC, hands down.

Takeo
02-23-2005, 08:18 AM
Henson has shown nothing. That Parcells wouldn't even give him a look even after the season was lost if a telling Omen.

I'm beginning to think this has more to do with Parcells' ego and preference for familiar vets than with any objective critique of Henson's development. Parcells knows he only has one or two years left, so he's not interested in turning toward the future. It's an unfortunate situation as I believe the best interest of the franchise is being overlooked for an over-glamorized head coach.

JCD
02-23-2005, 08:20 AM
Your mom would be the best starter than Aikman if she played.

Bledsoe is no better than Testeverde. The Cowboys are spinning their wheels by signing him. Just look at how Bledsoe's numbers have continued to get worse every year. At 33, he isn't going to improve.

Come on. Bledsoe is no better than Testeverde? That is a tough pill to swallow. A statement I certainly don't believe.

JCD
02-23-2005, 08:21 AM
I'm beginning to think this has more to do with Parcells' ego and preference for familiar vets than with any objective critique of Henson's development. Parcells knows he only has one or two years left, so he's not interested in turning toward the future. It's an unfortunate situation as I believe the best interest of the franchise is being overlooked for an over-glamorized head coach.

Very well could be. However, Henson was a wild card due to his long lay-off from football. He wasn't a bluechip prospect.

Troy McClure
02-23-2005, 09:23 AM
Come on. Bledsoe is no better than Testeverde? That is a tough pill to swallow. A statement I certainly don't believe.
Well, it's true. Bledsoe is 33 and has been in decline for a while now. He's only getting worse and was cut for a reason.

In the last three seasons, Bledsoe has had 19 fumbles and 43 interceptions. He was sacked 37 times last year alone.

Bledsoe's passer rating is a career 76.7 with a big 76.6 last year. He was just a hair over Vinny's 76.4 last season.

Yeah, time to plan the parade route.

Dr Love
02-23-2005, 09:27 AM
Testaverde's biggest problem was he was horrid in the second half of games. Bledsoe was actually better in the second half, although he threw the ball less. I'd rather have Bledsoe, but I'd also rather have a broken arm than two broken legs. So maybe the Cowboys are a 7 win team with the current roster.

Troy McClure
02-23-2005, 09:36 AM
I'd rather have Bledsoe, but I'd also rather have a broken arm than two broken legs. So maybe the Cowboys are a 7 win team with the current roster.
Exactly. Bledsoe might be an upgrade, but it's not enough of a step up to mean anything. It answers no long or short term questions and still leaves Cowboys fans with a question mark at QB.

JCD
02-23-2005, 09:55 AM
Well, it's true. Bledsoe is 33 and has been in decline for a while now. He's only getting worse and was cut for a reason.

In the last three seasons, Bledsoe has had 19 fumbles and 43 interceptions. He was sacked 37 times last year alone.

Bledsoe's passer rating is a career 76.7 with a big 76.6 last year. He was just a hair over Vinny's 76.4 last season.

Yeah, time to plan the parade route.

WHo said anything about a parade? Cowboys will still be a bad team.

The point is that Testeverde was arguably the worst starting QB in the NFL last year. That Bledsoe is better doesn't make him that good. Just better than Testeverde. Testeverde had 17 TDs. Bledsoe had 20. Testeverde had 20 INTs, Bledsoe had 17. Testeverde had 34 sacks behind a decent line, Bledsoe had 37 behind a bad one. You knock Bledsoe for declinging the past 2 years (3 years ago he was in the Pro Bowl), Testeverde has been sinking since 1998.

How you are getting the bizarre notion that Bledsoe isn't better than Testeverde is completely beyond me. Bledsoe may not be a world beater, but he sure is a heck better than Testeverde.

What Bledsoe does is buy the Cowboys a year. There is the possibility that with a good line and a better coach, Bledsoe can again be an effective QB. If not, at least Bledsoe provides the Cowboys an alternative to Drew Henson. He was signed as a FA, so it isn't like they gave up anything to get him.

Dr Love
02-23-2005, 09:59 AM
JCD, you are the only non-Cowboy fan in history that is trying to argue to a Cowboys fan the Cowboys improved. Seriously though, you guys are on the same page, you're just saying different things. Bledsoe is an upgrade, but given the situation it will be a useless upgrade since he solves zero major problems the Cowboys have.

JCD
02-23-2005, 10:03 AM
JCD, you are the only non-Cowboy fanin history that is trying to argue to a Cowboys fan the Cowboys improved! You guys are on the same page, you're just thinking different things. Bledsoe is an upgrade, but given the situation it will be a useless upgrade since he solves zero major problems the Cowboys have.

Weird isn't it?

Cowboys are not going anywhere this year. Bledsoe is better, and gives them a faint glimmer of hope (albeit remote).

I don't think all hope is lost. The NFC is wide open, the WC spots are not difficult to obtain. Should the Cowboys make good use of their 2 1st round picks, add a FA or two, stay healthy and get some lucky breaks, they can push to a 8-8 to 10-6 and a Wild Card berth. They won't be winning a Super Bowl by any means, but I wouldn't write them off as an also-ran so early.

Dr Love
02-23-2005, 10:09 AM
Cowboys are not going anywhere this year. Bledsoe is better, and gives them a faint glimmer of hope (albeit remote).
Which is all the more reason to not sign Bledsoe. Henson is 25, they've gotta give him a try. With Bledsoe, they're mediocre. With Henson, who knows, but what does it matter when your alternative is a ceiling of mediocrity? The Bills let Bledsoe go in part because you can put up with whatever turnovers and bad reads Losman is going to have because in theory he'll get better, and with Bledsoe you can't. Dallas has their heads in the sand. I've never been high on Henson but I've always said in all sports it's better to suck with kids.

Troy McClure
02-23-2005, 10:47 AM
Which is all the more reason to not sign Bledsoe. Henson is 25, they've gotta give him a try. With Bledsoe, they're mediocre. With Henson, who knows, but what does it matter when your alternative is a ceiling of mediocrity?
That's my problem with the deal. With Henson, the Cowboys could very well suck, but what's the end result? They might miss the playoffs again. Big deal. We've seen that for many years now. With Bledsoe, the Cowboys don't have anything to look forward to. He's too old to pin any future hopes on, and he's not good enough to get excited about in the short term.

It was a bad move no matter what timeline or strategy you have in mind.

Takeo
02-23-2005, 10:49 AM
Which is all the more reason to not sign Bledsoe. Henson is 25, they've gotta give him a try. With Bledsoe, they're mediocre. With Henson, who knows, but what does it matter when your alternative is a ceiling of mediocrity?

Which is exactly why the Bills opted for Losman over Bledsoe. I just can't believe the moronic Bills fans who don't comprehend that.

TVanek26*
02-23-2005, 12:25 PM
For the price the Bills paid, they have to play Losman.


This decision to make Losman the starter wasn't that they invested so much into him,it's that the coaching staff is enamored with him.Mularkey (Who has made Tommy Maddox and Kordell Stewart into pro-bowlers) and Sam Wyche (Who has coached guys like Montana) love what Losman brings to the table and feels he is a better QB.

Chistov23
02-23-2005, 12:52 PM
It was a bad move no matter what timeline or strategy you have in mind.

I don't see how it is a bad move. I think it was the best move they could make a qb, Henson is clearly not ready to start in the nfl, anyone who watched the first half of the cowboys/bears game knows this. He started what, 8 college games 4 years ago and we expect him to be the long term solution at QB?

Two years ago the cowboys were 10-6 with quincy at qb, hambrick at rb, edwards at cb along with a rookie (although a good one in newman) at the other corner. I think they will get a corner who isn't an undrafted rookie (frazier) or a 7th round pick (jones) and upgrade at saftey over tony dixon and the cowboys have a solid shot at the playoffs in the week nfc.

Maybe the cowboys are waiting until next year to draft that leinhart guy (I think thats his name, I don't follow college football).

Troy McClure
02-23-2005, 01:15 PM
I don't see how it is a bad move. I think it was the best move they could make a qb.
I'd rather have Vinny back on another cheap one year deal over whatever expensive multi-year deal they gave to Bledsoe. At least that would have given them options. Now, they aren't even going to consider drafting a QB. Next season, the Bledsoe contract will make it tough to even look at the FA market or even the possibility of making a trade for a QB.

Two years ago the cowboys were 10-6 with quincy at qb, hambrick at rb, edwards at cb along with a rookie (although a good one in newman) at the other corner. I think they will get a corner who isn't an undrafted rookie (frazier) or a 7th round pick (jones) and upgrade at saftey over tony dixon and the cowboys have a solid shot at the playoffs in the week nfc.
I really doubt that. This team has a lot of holes on defense. They need a starting CB and a starting safety. They also need to decide if they're going 3-4 or 4-3 and get the players to fit either one. It's a mess.

Dr Love
02-23-2005, 01:19 PM
Two years ago the cowboys were 10-6 with quincy at qb, hambrick at rb, edwards at cb along with a rookie (although a good one in newman) at the other corner. I think they will get a corner who isn't an undrafted rookie (frazier) or a 7th round pick (jones) and upgrade at saftey over tony dixon and the cowboys have a solid shot at the playoffs in the week nfc.
They made the playoffs because their defense played over their heads. Last year they underachieved, but were closer to their true talent level than the 2003 version. Regardless, this team doesn't have a legit shot to win the SB, signing Bledsoe doesn't do a thing to get them any closer.

Chistov23
02-23-2005, 01:35 PM
[QUOTE=Troy McClure]I'd rather have Vinny back on another cheap one year deal over whatever expensive multi-year deal they gave to Bledsoe. At least that would have given them options. Now, they aren't even going to consider drafting a QB. Next season, the Bledsoe contract will make it tough to even look at the FA market or even the possibility of making a trade for a QB.QUOTE]

Well we havn't seen the deal yet so I won't comment, I doubt they did something stupid like Washington with Brunnel last year. An article on the cowboys website brought up a solid point in that the contract will tell alot on what the cowboys plan to do with henson and the future at QB (i.e the signing bonus amount and length of contract).

Chistov23
02-23-2005, 01:41 PM
They made the playoffs because their defense played over their heads. Last year they underachieved, but were closer to their true talent level than the 2003 version. Regardless, this team doesn't have a legit shot to win the SB, signing Bledsoe doesn't do a thing to get them any closer.

I think that they have a legit shot at the playoffs and adding bledsoe will only improve their chances.

Dr Love
02-23-2005, 01:46 PM
I think that they have a legit shot at the playoffs and adding bledsoe will only improve their chances.
Based on what considering they have no passing game and a defense with a number of question marks?

Troy McClure
02-23-2005, 01:46 PM
I think that they have a legit shot at the playoffs and adding bledsoe will only improve their chances.
They need to add at least five starters on defense. I don't see this happening.

Detox
02-23-2005, 02:00 PM
They need to add at least five starters on defense. I don't see this happening.
Looks like they will need more then 5:
Cowboys Marcellus Wiley released
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=fanball-cowboyswileyreleased&prov=fanball&type=lgns

Is it just me or do the Boys take one step foward one yr (Jones/Henson) then two steps back the next yr (Bledsoe/whatever theyre doing now)

Troy McClure
02-23-2005, 02:01 PM
Looks like they will need more then 5:
Cowboys Marcellus Wiley released
The could put a tackling dummy in his place and get the same results. Really, his absence right now makes the Cowboys better. Oh, and he was another failed Parcells project.

Takeo
02-23-2005, 02:04 PM
Looks like they will need more then 5:
Cowboys Marcellus Wiley released
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=fanball-cowboyswileyreleased&prov=fanball&type=lgns

Is it just me or do the Boys take one step foward one yr (Jones/Henson) then two steps back the next yr (Bledsoe/whatever theyre doing now)

Parcells is senile.

Chistov23
02-23-2005, 02:09 PM
Based on what considering they have no passing game and a defense with a number of question marks?

Vinnie throwing for over 3,500 yards is no passing game? Also half of the season we had no running game which made it harder to throw and to add to that our biggest threat in Glenn went out with injury. If the offence can be more efficient and capitalize on our chances (we didn't have trouble moving the ball to much, just couldn't execute at the right time), and I agree our defense does have question marks but if some of those are filled we have a legit shot at the playoffs. Anything happens in an NFL season, 8-8 was good enough for the playoffs last year, the Cowboys could very well go 9-7 next year which could land a playoff spot.

Dr Love
02-23-2005, 02:18 PM
Vinnie throwing for over 3,500 yards is no passing game?On bascially 500 attempts. They have no deep threat, no stand out WR, no emerging young WR. Their passing game can not carry the team, it didn't last year, it won't this year.

If the offence can be more efficient and capitalize on our chancesA hell of a lot easier said than done.

Chistov23
02-23-2005, 02:34 PM
On bascially 500 attempts.
Ok I'll give you that he through about 20 more attempts than Qb's with similar yardage (i.e Brady, Hasselback, Carr) but over the season that is about over 1 more attempt per game.
They have no deep threat, no stand out WR, no emerging young WR. Their passing game can not carry the team, it didn't last year, it won't this year.
Our WR are not the best but a receiving group of Johnson, Glenn, Morten and Witten is far better than other teams. Witten is arguably one of the best catching TE's in the game. What Parcells will be counting on is for the running game to give our offence more balance. Hopefully Jones will be up to the challenge.
A hell of a lot easier said than done.
That's true but it can be done.

I'm not trying to say that the Cowboys are SB contender's all I'm saying is that they have a legit shot at the playoffs in the weak NFC. That doesn't mean I'm saying they Will make the playoffs I'm saying they have a reasonable chance, like many other teams.

Dr Love
02-23-2005, 02:49 PM
Ok I'll give you that he through about 20 more attempts than Qb's with similar yardage (i.e Brady, Hasselback, Carr) but over the season that is about over 1 more attempt per game.
And look at the splits. A majority of his yards were in the second half of games, and when he was behind. And in the second half he was terrible. As the game went on, he got worse, turned the ball over more, and then was forced to throw the ball more to play catch up because for most of the season they couldn't run the ball. And it'll be the same story with Bledsoe if they can't run the ball again. Jones played half a season, I don't want to hear how great he is, he either ran the ball well or didn't, he wasn't consistent. If he stays inconsistent, you're just going to get the same thing you got the second half of the 2004 season--a bad offense with a bad QB.

Our WR are not the best but a receiving group of Johnson, Glenn, Morten and Witten is far better than other teams. Witten is arguably one of the best catching TE's in the game. What Parcells will be counting on is for the running game to give our offence more balance. Hopefully Jones will be up to the challenge.
A Witten is all they have. Their WR corp stinks, and as a TE Witten isn't running routes on every passing play.

Chistov23
02-23-2005, 03:04 PM
Dr - You make some solid points, and who knows what will happen next year. I think as of right now, anticipating some moves that could be made that the Cowboys have a reasonable chance at the playoffs. I think that bledsoe was really their best option for QB and didn't like how everybody here was writing it off as stupid. With Free Agency and the Draft still to come it is probably pre-mature to argue over the potential of the next season so lets wait and see.

Dr Love
02-23-2005, 03:15 PM
FYI: Bledsoe's contract is for three years.

Takeo
02-23-2005, 03:21 PM
Dr - You make some solid points, and who knows what will happen next year. I think as of right now, anticipating some moves that could be made that the Cowboys have a reasonable chance at the playoffs. I think that bledsoe was really their best option for QB and didn't like how everybody here was writing it off as stupid. With Free Agency and the Draft still to come it is probably pre-mature to argue over the potential of the next season so lets wait and see.

No matter what other moves they make, Bledsoe is bad enough to bring them down. Sorry bro, but that's the truth. Maybe Parcells can put him in a position to succeed, but the offense will have to be compromised to compensate for his deficiencies. Your options on offense reduce greatly with a guy like Bledsoe at QB. I'm sure Jim Johnson and Gregg Williams have huge grins on their faces.

Dr Love
02-23-2005, 03:26 PM
No matter what other moves they make, Bledsoe is bad enough to bring them down. Sorry bro, but that's the truth. Maybe Parcells can put him in a position to succeed, but the offense will have to be compromised to compensate for his deficiencies. Your options on offense reduce greatly with a guy like Bledsoe at QB. I'm sure Jim Johnson and Gregg Williams have huge grins on their faces.
Greg Williams is capable of expressing emotion?

Takeo, all you need to pull out to show what Bledsoe is now is the game vs the Seahawks, which (as you know) the Bills won 38-9 and Bledsoe threw 3 INTs.

clefty
02-23-2005, 03:36 PM
Rumour from KFFL.com (http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl) has Randy Moss going to the Raiders for Napoleon Harris, a first round pick, and an undisclosed late round pick as told to the Pioneer Press in St. Paul by Moss' agent. If the rumour is correct, the deal will go through on March 2nd, and Oakland will absorb all of Moss' base salary.

Jared Ramsden
02-23-2005, 03:45 PM
Rumour from KFFL.com (http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl) has Randy Moss going to the Raiders for Napoleon Harris, a first round pick, and an undisclosed late round pick as told to the Pioneer Press in St. Paul by Moss' agent. If the rumour is correct, the deal will go through on March 2nd, and Oakland will absorb all of Moss' base salary.

Here's another link about the supposed deal.....

http://www.fantasysports.yahoo.com/analysis/news?slug=rotowire-andyossradedtotheaid&prov=rotowire&type=lgns&league=nfl

Takeo
02-23-2005, 03:47 PM
http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/5256783.html

This article confirms although you may have to register. Moss for 7th overall, Harris, and later pick.

Detox
02-23-2005, 04:02 PM
http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/5256783.html

This article confirms although you may have to register. Moss for 7th overall, Harris, and later pick.
SI has it Buchaneon (sp?) not harris....but more sources are pointing at harris

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cnnsi-mossonthemove&prov=cnnsi&type=lgns

Sebastien Centomo
02-23-2005, 04:02 PM
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8222133

CBS Sportsline is saying seventh rounder... that can't be right. :shakehead

Dr Love
02-23-2005, 04:05 PM
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8222133 (http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8222133)

CBS Sportsline is saying seventh rounder... that can't be right. :shakehead
They mean 7th overall.

This isn't a done deal, I'm hearing the Raiders were going after Moss if they couldn't re-sign Porter, which they did, and that Randy didn't want to go Oakland. We'll find out soon enough though.

FlyersGuy69
02-23-2005, 04:12 PM
with the 7th overall, the Vikes might be able to land Braylon Edwards or Mike Williams. both could be elite WR in the NFL.

although, they should use it to continue to stack their defense.

thestonedkoala
02-23-2005, 04:17 PM
Unless somehow Minnesota leap frogs some teams...This trade is horrible. Mark Clayton? They aren't going to get Braylon or Mike...

Vic Rattlehead*
02-23-2005, 04:24 PM
Weird isn't it?

Cowboys are not going anywhere this year. Bledsoe is better, and gives them a faint glimmer of hope (albeit remote).

I don't think all hope is lost. The NFC is wide open, the WC spots are not difficult to obtain. Should the Cowboys make good use of their 2 1st round picks, add a FA or two, stay healthy and get some lucky breaks, they can push to a 8-8 to 10-6 and a Wild Card berth. They won't be winning a Super Bowl by any means, but I wouldn't write them off as an also-ran so early.

The draft and Free Agency are already finished?

Shows how much you know. Cowboys have 20 mil in cap space, and will improve the defence a lot. Expect them to sign a WR, CB, and more help on defence.

Dr Love
02-23-2005, 04:26 PM
Shows how much you know. Cowboys have 20 mil in cap space, and will improved the defence a lot.Ladies and gentlemen, 19bruins19 can tell the future, and has been there.

Vic Rattlehead*
02-23-2005, 04:27 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, 19bruins19 can tell the future, and has been there.

It's common sense. Compared to last year, the defence will have a new look. Parcells even said that they will spend to improve. I know what I'm talking about (unlike some people here....)

Tuggy
02-23-2005, 04:28 PM
My roommates are trying to convince me that Dallas made a good move by bringing in Bledsoe but I am still at a lost to see why they think that.

Dr Love
02-23-2005, 04:28 PM
It's common sense. Compared to last year, the defence will have a new look. Parcells even said that they will spend to improve. I know what I'm talking about (unlike some people here....)
Yes, because when you think you have improved, you do in fact improve. You are making an assumption.

Vic Rattlehead*
02-23-2005, 04:31 PM
Yes, because when you think you have improved, you do in fact improve. You are making an assumption.

I am making an assumption based on what Parcells said. Hell, cutting Wiley automatically improved the defence, because that waste of a roster space will not be rotting there.

FlyersGuy69
02-23-2005, 04:53 PM
Which is all the more reason to not sign Bledsoe. Henson is 25, they've gotta give him a try. With Bledsoe, they're mediocre. With Henson, who knows, but what does it matter when your alternative is a ceiling of mediocrity? The Bills let Bledsoe go in part because you can put up with whatever turnovers and bad reads Losman is going to have because in theory he'll get better, and with Bledsoe you can't. Dallas has their heads in the sand. I've never been high on Henson but I've always said in all sports it's better to suck with kids.
I hate to say it, but I agree with ya...

the problem I have though is, Jerry Jones had been doing some interviews prior to this signing saying he had no interest in Bledsoe. he stated that he thought Henson was ready to start and that the franchise had to find out what they had at QB. I was happy about this because either way, if Henson is good or not, at least you know what you have and you can move on from there. I don't know if it was all a ruse or not, I guess it could be but I doubt it. obviously Parcells is the one who wanted this guy and it just makes me wonder if he really does know what he is doing. to me Bledsoe is a younger version of Testaverde, that's it. I am now starting wonder if Parcells was the best thing for the Cowboys.

Hockeyfan02
02-23-2005, 05:20 PM
with the 7th overall, the Vikes might be able to land Braylon Edwards or Mike Williams. both could be elite WR in the NFL.

although, they should use it to continue to stack their defense.

I dont think Braylon will be around at #7 and it sounds like Williams has question marks about his weight and speed that were the same last year that will take him out of the top 10. I think they'll take Derrick Johnson instead.

Troy McClure
02-23-2005, 05:20 PM
Shows how much you know. Cowboys have 20 mil in cap space, and will improve the defence a lot. Expect them to sign a WR, CB, and more help on defence.
And the Cowboys had a ton of cap room last season they didn't use because Parcells was convinced he could pick anyone off the street and make them an NFL cornerback.

Besides, with Big Bill's track record so far, I wouldn't get too excited about any free agent he signs.

with the 7th overall, the Vikes might be able to land Braylon Edwards or Mike Williams. both could be elite WR in the NFL.
And like you said, they should use that pick to improve their D. That's why they lost and why they'll never be a contender as they are now. Even without Moss, their offense is very very good. They can find another WR in free agency to round out the group. They don't need a superstar or anything.

ap215
02-23-2005, 05:27 PM
Arizona close to acquiring RB Henry

http://theredzone.org/news/showarticle.asp?ArticleID=2297

Jared Ramsden
02-23-2005, 05:30 PM
It's looking less and less likely that San Diego is going to get Williams or Edwards....they had an outside chance, but with Chicago, Tennessee, now probably Minnesota and Washington ahead of them, it's probably not going to happen....

thestonedkoala
02-23-2005, 05:32 PM
WHO are they going to find in FA? Plaxio, who wants top dollars and is rumored to be going anywhere BUT Minnesota? Derrick Mason? Muhammad? This sucks for Minnesota fans...

If we draft Derrick Johnson, it would make no sense. Our LBs are all pretty damn young...EJ Henderson and Dontarrious Thomas aren't even in their 3 year as a pro, so it's tough to judge when they had NO veteran lineback to show them the ropes.

And who does Minnesota have after Burleson? Softy Robinson? Uhhh they let Campbell walk...

Yeah good job McCombs...YOU SUCK

thestonedkoala
02-23-2005, 05:34 PM
It's looking less and less likely that San Diego is going to get Williams or Edwards....they had an outside chance, but with Chicago, Tennessee, now probably Minnesota and Washington ahead of them, it's probably not going to happen....

12th + 28th pick move up over Minnesota, Tennessee...

Troy McClure
02-23-2005, 05:47 PM
Yeah good job McCombs...YOU SUCK
What would you prefer? I guess you could have kept Moss and not had a shot at winning the Super Bowl again.

Jeffrey
02-23-2005, 05:51 PM
What would you prefer? I guess you could have kept Moss and not had a shot at winning the Super Bowl again.
I'm really pissed off !!!
MAN Moss is my favorite player and the ONLY reason why I like the vikings ... but now that he will go to the Raiders(the team I hate the most) i'm in a big dilemma ...
should I still enjoy the greatness of Moss or hate him since he's a Raiders ! :cry: :help:

clefty
02-23-2005, 05:52 PM
Another probable trade:

Travis Henry to Arizona for L.J Shelton

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8221832

Wild Thing
02-23-2005, 05:58 PM
i'm in a big dilemma ...
should I still enjoy the greatness of Moss or hate him since he's a Raiders ! :cry: :help:

Why don't you just do what I do? Hate him because he's Moss!

Jeffrey
02-23-2005, 06:01 PM
Why don't you just do what I do? Hate him because he's Moss!
I can't he's the best receiver in the league ! :banghead:

johnny cool
02-23-2005, 06:16 PM
What would you prefer? I guess you could have kept Moss and not had a shot at winning the Super Bowl again.
you're right, napoleon harris makes them an instant favorite :shakehead

thestonedkoala
02-23-2005, 06:17 PM
And that 7th round pick...oh wow...Let's see if they screw up on that kid...

IkeaMonkey*
02-23-2005, 06:23 PM
Vikes lose...
The best WR in the game.

Vikes gain...
-Cap Room.
-A defensive starter in Napolean Harris/Philip Buchanon(whoever it is)
-#7 overall pick, which should turn into an instant starter
-Late round pick.
-A breath of fresh air knowing "Randy" questions wont linger over the team, week after week.

I'd say its not bad.

FlyersGuy69
02-23-2005, 06:31 PM
And like you said, they should use that pick to improve their D. That's why they lost and why they'll never be a contender as they are now. Even without Moss, their offense is very very good. They can find another WR in free agency to round out the group. They don't need a superstar or anything.

yeah, and Adam Shefter from the NFL Network just said that by trading Moss they will save about 2.5 million on this years cap and could end up with 35+ million dollars under the cap.
I think there is enough money under the cap to get some decent players. ;)

thestonedkoala
02-23-2005, 06:35 PM
McCombs won't sign any players if he is going to deal away the team...

Cap room, bah. We had cap room last year and we signed Winfield and Robinson...

McCombs is a penny pincher at best and a greedy, SOB owner, who doesn't give a damn about the teams or fans. I agree that this is just one big middle finger to the Viking fans who supported the team...

We lost arguably the number 1 receiver in the league when he is healthy...And we lost Campbell to free agency. I don't know about you but having Burleson and Robinson as your 1 and 2 is downright scary. I am not really, really optimistic that McCombs is going to get right down and find a receiver quickly.

GKJ
02-23-2005, 06:36 PM
yeah, and Adam Shefter from the NFL Network just said that by trading Moss they will save about 2.5 million on this years cap and could end up with 35+ million dollars under the cap.
I think there is enough money under the cap to get some decent players. ;)


They should turn around and go after Laverneus Coles.



Moss will just be the next guy to go to Oakland to have his carreer wallow away.

Troy McClure
02-23-2005, 06:37 PM
McCombs won't sign any players if he is going to deal away the team...
He isn't dealing away the team. He traded one guy.

thestonedkoala
02-23-2005, 06:38 PM
Dude, Fowler is rumored to be buying the team. McCombs is selling the team (sorry shouldn't have said dealing away)...McCombs isn't going to bring in any high price free agents...it's not his style...

FlyersGuy69
02-23-2005, 08:10 PM
They should turn around and go after Laverneus Coles.
speaking of him, they also said that he might have to have surgery on his foot. he supposedly has a bad turf toe injury. which is a bad injury...especially for a position like receiver.

Ronnie Bass
02-23-2005, 08:47 PM
Vikes lose...
The best WR in the game.

Vikes gain...
-Cap Room.
-A defensive starter in Napolean Harris/Philip Buchanon(whoever it is)
-#7 overall pick, which should turn into an instant starter
-Late round pick.
-A breath of fresh air knowing "Randy" questions wont linger over the team, week after week.

I'd say its not bad.
Agreed.

thestonedkoala
02-23-2005, 08:55 PM
HOW DOES THE CAP ROOM HELP WHEN YOU DON'T SPEND ANY MONEY ON FREE AGENTS?

We still have our same old holes at cornerback (opposite of Winfield), defensive lineman (do we even have a consistant starter?), safety (Chavous?), kicker, punter and linebacker...

Why do I say linebacker? Harris is how old? Dontarrious Thomas and EJ Henderson aren't even really established in the NFL and could use a veteran linebacker to teach them how to play. A guy that has been around the league for more than five years and knows how to lead but also play.

And guess what? Minnesota just created a big hole in receiver. Does anyone believe Burleson is going to be the go to receiver?

clefty
02-23-2005, 09:03 PM
And that 7th round pick...oh wow...Let's see if they screw up on that kid...

Picking 7th overall means Minnesota are in a position to potentially trade up for a Mike Williams or Edwards or stay where they are and take Williamson or Mark Clayton. The Vikings can get a great young wideout with that first pick if they want one.

thestonedkoala
02-23-2005, 09:05 PM
I don't think Williamson or Clayton is worth a high 1st rounder...They could potentially get Rolle...

But I've been hearing their last 7th overall pick, Bryan McKinney is up on the trade block...

clefty
02-23-2005, 09:16 PM
You're picking at #18 as well...take Clayton or Williamson there if you want. I reiterate, if they are so inclined, a great young WR could be on his way to Minnesota with this trade who'll probably end up starting.

This trade wouldn't be the end of the world for the Vikings.

thestonedkoala
02-23-2005, 09:17 PM
*shrugs* I don't know...I am still nervous because Randy Moss is a freak of nature...

JCD
02-23-2005, 10:05 PM
This was a positively horrible trade.

Moss' problems were quite overblown by the media. He was, without a doubt, the most talented receiver in the league. His absence in the offense was exceedingly obvious.

7th overall is small consolation. There is no player even close to Moss' ability even in the draft. Let alone still on the board 7 deep.

Harris will start, but is no better than an above average starter. Not a stud by any stretch of the imagination.

In all, horrific. I am clinging to the vain hope that there is more to this deal yet to be announced. Another first or perhaps Woodson. Only thing that would help even the balance.

Cap room is insignificant. Vikes already have 30 mil available (almost 10 mil more than the next closest team), how much more do you need? Right now, the Vikes are closer to the cap floor than the cap ceiling.

This is downright ugly. Herschal Walker Part Deux. I am ashamed to be a Vikes fan today.

JCD
02-23-2005, 10:09 PM
HOW DOES THE CAP ROOM HELP WHEN YOU DON'T SPEND ANY MONEY ON FREE AGENTS?

We still have our same old holes at cornerback (opposite of Winfield), defensive lineman (do we even have a consistant starter?), safety (Chavous?), kicker, punter and linebacker...

Why do I say linebacker? Harris is how old? Dontarrious Thomas and EJ Henderson aren't even really established in the NFL and could use a veteran linebacker to teach them how to play. A guy that has been around the league for more than five years and knows how to lead but also play.

And guess what? Minnesota just created a big hole in receiver. Does anyone believe Burleson is going to be the go to receiver?

Clearing up a few things.

1) McKinnie isn't on the block. Never heard an iota about that.
2) Vikes have a hole at nickelback, Williams is an adequate starter already and is young with plenty of room to grow.
3) Kevin Williams is arguably the best DT in the game today, he certainly qualifies as a consistent starter. Udeze was solid out-of-position at RDE and will look even better on the left side. Johnstone is a great pass rushing specialist. What the Vikes lack is a legit starting RDE and a DT alongside Williams.
4) Campbell is a RFA, he was not released.

mmbt
02-23-2005, 10:12 PM
Harris will start, but is no better than an above average starter. Not a stud by any stretch of the imagination.

He's not even been above average the last two years. He had a very nice rookie season, but struggled since. He's still young and has promise, however.

thestonedkoala
02-23-2005, 10:27 PM
CZAR: Guide to the NFL off-season
John Czarnecki / FOX Sports

posted 2/12/05

The off-season is when NFL teams reshape themselves for the season ahead.


It's when the most critical decisions are made, primarily on coaching staffs and in player personnel, from free agency through the college draft to pre-training camp roster changes due to salary-cap limitations and the procurement of street free agents.


Often, the best moves are the ones that aren't made. The two Super Bowl teams ó New England and Philadelphia ó made the best decisions last season and both franchises are a model for how to win in the NFL.

That said, here's a look at what to keep an eye on in the coming months ...

Will the Vikings trade Moss?


There is so much misinformation out there. Yes, the Vikings could move Moss without incurring a horrendous salary-cap hit. And, yes, Minnesota is desperate for a quality defender. Maybe more than one. But will a team like Baltimore trade a starting linebacker like Edgerton Hartwell and a first-round pick for Moss? It's going to take at least that much.

The Raiders don't mind unloading disappointing cornerback Phillip Buchanon, but will they also part with their first-round pick, seventh overall? They will have to do that to make a Moss trade work. Then, they must also make sure to keep Jerry Porter on the roster, thus ensuring a big-time passing offense.

However, I've heard that Moss has no interest in being a Raider because he doesn't see the franchise reaching the playoffs. Moss wants to play in a Super Bowl before he retires. Moss is worth a lot because he remains the finest game-breaking offensive talent in the league. And if the Vikings do trade him, they can never replace him and are sentenced to another season of mediocrity. At least with Moss, they have a fighting chance to make the playoffs.

Which teams made the right head-coach choice?


Patriots coach Bill Belichick will tell you new Miami coach Nick Saban is a chip off the old block. If Saban is another Belichick, then the Dolphins figure to be a playoff team in 2006 for sure. But it will be difficult next season with both the Patriots and Jets in the same division.

The Browns and 49ers hired two deserving defensive coordinators in Romeo Crennel and Mike Nolan. Both men have paid their dues in this league and deserve the opportunity to be head coaches. But no one really knows if they will succeed. They are taking over two teams who are talent poor with two rookie personnel men in the major decision-making roles.


This is critical.

Both Phil Savage and Scot McCloughan are excellent evaluators of college players, but neither has spent a football season in the office. Both men are road junkies and they are used to a certain way of life. Can they still find time to scout talent on the road while also spending time in the office, helping their rookie head coaches with the major pro personnel decisions? That's a big question and often a difficult one for men used to scouting and not sitting behind a desk; who are comfortable delegating some authority while also making the most difficult of decisions.


Five players who could be traded

The Eagles shocked the world by placing the franchise tag on defensive tackle Corey Simon, who had one tackle in the Super Bowl. The Eagles are all about value, so they must be thinking about trading Simon if the opportunity arises. The Eagles will definitely shop receiver Freddie Mitchell, but who wants a loudmouth?

For the right price, Minnesota will shed offensive tackle Bryant McKinnie. And the Packers have incentive to move free safety Darren Sharper, who doesn't make enough big plays.


Sorry for the long post

BigStar
02-23-2005, 10:37 PM
apparently

link (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpbmdmam0wBF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwN0 bQ--?slug=ap-vikings-moss&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Street Hawk
02-23-2005, 10:43 PM
For the Raiders....

Moss for Harris, the 7th overall pick and a 7th rounder? Are they kidding me?

The Raiders can get an impact player like a Ronnie Brown at #7 to help their run game or a Cody to help their Defensive line, but they opt to go for Moss?

That's the end of it for me. First Sapp and Buchanon and now Moss. I'm dumping my Raider Gear.....

Hockeyfan02
02-23-2005, 10:49 PM
We have this already in the NFL offseason thread above. How is it a horrible move for the Raiders? They get arguably the best WR in the league and easily one of the most talented athletes in the game for an above average LB, a pick that could be a bust, and a 7th rounder. Its an absolute steal by the Raiders.

Wild Thing
02-24-2005, 12:02 AM
This is downright ugly. Herschal Walker Part Deux. I am ashamed to be a Vikes fan today.

I'm sorry for you, buddy. You know I don't like the Vikings, or Moss, and I know I've needled you about them a couple of times, but today is no time to rub it in. Today, all I can say is I feel your pain. You probably feel pretty much the way I'd feel if the Packers traded Favre. It's gotta hurt. Hang in there, though, man. You never know how things will look a year down the road.

Jeffrey
02-24-2005, 12:09 AM
after some thought about the Moss trade !!
it's the worst trade ever for the Viks !!
ouch !!
I would never cheer for them again it was just pathetic !!
why didnt the Ravens or Jets trade for him at least I wouldn't be that upset !!
I have to say it again :
VIKINGS MANAGER = WORST IN SPORTS HISTORY !! :banghead: :madfire:

JCD
02-24-2005, 06:15 AM
He's not even been above average the last two years. He had a very nice rookie season, but struggled since. He's still young and has promise, however.

I was trying to be optimistic. He is a downgrade from Claiborne IMO.

Trade is simply inexcusable. I just hope the reported package isn't the real one.

JCD
02-24-2005, 06:23 AM
after some thought about the Moss trade !!
it's the worst trade ever for the Viks !!
ouch !!
I would never cheer for them again it was just pathetic !!
why didnt the Ravens or Jets trade for him at least I wouldn't be that upset !!
I have to say it again :
VIKINGS MANAGER = WORST IN SPORTS HISTORY !! :banghead: :madfire:

It is going to have a tough time beating the Herschall Walker fiasco, but it is making a good run at it. Best WR in the game, just hitting his prime, locked up for 3 more years, signing bonus just paid off (cap relief for this trade was non-existant: 500k). Top it off, the 7th pick is in the weakest class (top-end) in years! I guess it depends on who the Vikes take with that pick, but other than the two top WRs, there isn't anybody out there that makes a Vike fan drool. And very good chance both of them will be gone (Bears, Titans, Bucs, Browns and Niners all need help at WR).

Here is the kicker: Vikes don't have a GM. Cheapskate Red has held the position vacant since Denny Green was fired. It is some bizarre co-op position with Tice, Bryzinski (sp?) and one other guy who escapes me. Crap like this is clear proof of how Red has turned the Vikes into a third-rate organization. Trades like this just remind me that we have not, and at this rate never will, win a Super Bowl.

JCD
02-24-2005, 06:28 AM
I'm sorry for you, buddy. You know I don't like the Vikings, or Moss, and I know I've needled you about them a couple of times, but today is no time to rub it in. Today, all I can say is I feel your pain. You probably feel pretty much the way I'd feel if the Packers traded Favre. It's gotta hurt. Hang in there, though, man. You never know how things will look a year down the road.

Well, congrats on winning the division again. NFC North is back to being a 1-horse show with three pathetic also-rans.

Vic Rattlehead*
02-24-2005, 07:09 AM
Man, for that deal, Dallas should have tried to get Moss.

sveiglar
02-24-2005, 08:36 AM
I'm with JCD, but from the other side of the fence. People are talking about them grabbing an elite player at the #7 spot; news flash, they had Randy Moss.. how much more elite can they get? As a Raiders fan, I'm ecstatic about this deal. Harris is a good linebacker, but is he a dealbreaker when acquiring a talent like Moss? Hardly. Re-signing Porter and acquiring Moss will give two excellent downfield targets to Collins and headaches for a lot of defensive coordinators.

I'm not one for emoticons but if ever I was to break one out, this is it.

:banana: :banana: :banana:

Ronnie Bass
02-24-2005, 08:49 AM
I was trying to be optimistic. He is a downgrade from Claiborne IMO.

Trade is simply inexcusable. I just hope the reported package isn't the real one.
You know JCD, if you are lucky enough to grab Mike Williams, then all of a sudden this becomes alot better for you. But like I agreed before to someones post I thought this was a needed trade that the Vikings had to make and considering what you got I'd be pleased.

The man is a GREAT player but he wore out his welcome mat so much that even his QB didn't want him around anymore. Sometimes greatness is not worth the cancer it brings.

Anthony Mauro
02-24-2005, 09:03 AM
Moss' problems were quite overblown by the media. He was, without a doubt, the most talented receiver in the league. His absence in the offense was exceedingly obvious.


Are you sure about his problems being overblown? It seems numerous occasions he stood out as immature. After numerous times of Tice sticking up for Randy, Moss called Tice out and made him look foolish. And you have Culpepper saying how it might be time for him to go.

When Culpepper, the QB that plays with Moss and knows how much he would be needed, says that he should go, maybe he is not that irreplaceable?

Personally, I do believe that Moss is going to be missed in MIN for his elite, game breaking ability. But maybe it was time. A draft is a draft regardless of what its quality is being hyped up as. The 7th overall will get you a player and you never know how players will turn out.

Troy McClure
02-24-2005, 09:04 AM
The man is a GREAT player but he wore out his welcome mat so much that even his QB didn't want him around anymore. Sometimes greatness is not worth the cancer it brings.
Most superstar players never bring their real value in return. It works that way in most every sport. So, you get the best deal you can.

MontrealCruiser_83*
02-24-2005, 09:05 AM
I'm with JCD, but from the other side of the fence. People are talking about them grabbing an elite player at the #7 spot; news flash, they had Randy Moss.. how much more elite can they get? As a Raiders fan, I'm ecstatic about this deal. Harris is a good linebacker, but is he a dealbreaker when acquiring a talent like Moss? Hardly. Re-signing Porter and acquiring Moss will give two excellent downfield targets to Collins and headaches for a lot of defensive coordinators.

I'm not one for emoticons but if ever I was to break one out, this is it.

:banana: :banana: :banana:
Collins will find a way to screw it up. With no running game he'll have to make those 70 yard bombs while running for his life.

JCD
02-24-2005, 09:10 AM
You know JCD, if you are lucky enough to grab Mike Williams, then all of a sudden this becomes alot better for you. But like I agreed before to someones post I thought this was a needed trade that the Vikings had to make and considering what you got I'd be pleased.

The man is a GREAT player but he wore out his welcome mat so much that even his QB didn't want him around anymore. Sometimes greatness is not worth the cancer it brings.

This is what I mean by overblown problems. That you don't think Culpepper wanted Moss around isn't true. What happens far too often with ESPN and other tabloid-style sports reporting is they talk a quote out of context. Culpepper and Moss are good friends. By all accounts.

At no point did Culpepper ever say he didn't want Randy back. On the contrary, he specifically said that they are good friends and would like to play his entire career with him. What he did say is that perhaps management has said enough is enough and that he is tired of smoothing over things on his behalf. The 'Randy is a good friend and I want to play my entire career with him gets cut off'.

mmbt
02-24-2005, 09:15 AM
Collins will find a way to screw it up. With no running game he'll have to make those 70 yard bombs while running for his life.

The Oakland OL was pretty good this past season, and might get better with Gallery and Grove having a year of experience. They already had no running game and still only gave up the 6th fewest sacks in the league. The passing game is not a big concern.

Their real problem is their defense still sucks, particularly the lack of a pass rush. If you can't rush the passer you don't have jack in this league, because even the crappiest NFL caliber QB can look like the next Marino with enough time.

JCD
02-24-2005, 09:18 AM
Are you sure about his problems being overblown? It seems numerous occasions he stood out as immature. After numerous times of Tice sticking up for Randy, Moss called Tice out and made him look foolish. And you have Culpepper saying how it might be time for him to go.

When Culpepper, the QB that plays with Moss and knows how much he would be needed, says that he should go, maybe he is not that irreplaceable?

Personally, I do believe that Moss is going to be missed in MIN for his elite, game breaking ability. But maybe it was time. A draft is a draft regardless of what its quality is being hyped up as. The 7th overall will get you a player and you never know how players will turn out.

Again, Culpepper said he would understand why he would be traded (management has had enough), not that he wanted to see him go. He said the opposite in that he was blessed to have a receiver like that to work with, called him a good friend and hoped to play his entire career with him. He just understood why the rumors were out there and why it could happen.

Moss' being irreplacable is easy to see. With him in the line-up, Culpepper was outpacing Manning this year. Vikes were putting up 30-35 points on the average. Without him, Culpepper lost a TD per game and Vikes offense sunk back towards middle-of-the-pack. That he changed the dynamics of how defenses played the Vikes and how effective the Vikes offense was is beyond debate.

A draft is a draft. We DON'T know how a pick will turn out. We do know that Moss is the best the game has to offer. We get a roll of the dice on a weak class for the best WR in the game. That is downright embarrassing. The only two players that really would present good value to us at that spot are likely to be off the table, the big-name WRs. Even then, neither WR is Randy Moss.

MontrealCruiser_83*
02-24-2005, 09:28 AM
The Oakland OL was pretty good this past season, and might get better with Gallery and Grove having a year of experience. They already had no running game and still only gave up the 6th fewest sacks in the league. The passing game is not a big concern.

Their real problem is their defense still sucks, particularly the lack of a pass rush. If you can't rush the passer you don't have jack in this league, because even the crappiest NFL caliber QB can look like the next Marino with enough time.
I wouldn't be concerned with sacks either... However Collins will be pressured and more often than not he just decides to throw it to the other team instead of going down for a sack. If Gannon can come back healthy, then Oakland's offence is heading somewhere. If he doesn't, they're in trouble.

sveiglar
02-24-2005, 09:31 AM
I wouldn't be concerned with sacks either... However Collins will be pressured and more often than not he just decides to throw it to the other team instead of going down for a sack. If Gannon can come back healthy, then Oakland's offence is heading somewhere. If he doesn't, they're in trouble.

Gannon is finished. Collins will be fine; I'll take a dozen picks if it comes with 25-30 TDs.

MontrealCruiser_83*
02-24-2005, 09:38 AM
Gannon is finished. Collins will be fine; I'll take a dozen picks if it comes with 25-30 TDs.
A dozen is overly optimistic. 25-30 TD's with 20-23 INT's. Whatever floats your boat.

Troy McClure
02-24-2005, 09:59 AM
Vikes were putting up 30-35 points on the average. Without him, Culpepper lost a TD per game and Vikes offense sunk back towards middle-of-the-pack. That he changed the dynamics of how defenses played the Vikes and how effective the Vikes offense was is beyond debate.
The Vikings gave up 24.7 points a game. Yeah, they needed Moss to try and out gun the other team because everyone put up big points on Minnesota. They were 26th in points against.

I know you don't like this deal for Moss, but don't pretend the team was anything good when he was there. They have sucked for years now and have never been a threat to win anything in the playoffs even with Moss. Changes needed to be made somewhere.

mmbt
02-24-2005, 10:13 AM
A dozen is overly optimistic. 25-30 TD's with 20-23 INT's. Whatever floats your boat.

He's only thrown 20+ INTs in a season twice out of ten years in his career. It's not like he's an INT machine. Of course he's only thrown for 20+ TDs in his career twice as well.

But then, he's never had a WR duo close to Moss-Porter, while throwing behind a good OL. The Oakland passing game will be really good, no doubt, and I have a sneaking suspicion they're going to trade Woodson for a RB.

JCD
02-24-2005, 10:28 AM
The Vikings gave up 24.7 points a game. Yeah, they needed Moss to try and out gun the other team because everyone put up big points on Minnesota. They were 26th in points against.

I know you don't like this deal for Moss, but don't pretend the team was anything good when he was there. They have sucked for years now and have never been a threat to win anything in the playoffs even with Moss. Changes needed to be made somewhere.

Vikes were in two NFC Championships in 3 years with Moss. Then went into Cap Hell and had to rebuild. The past two years, Vikes were a team on the rise. This was a major set-back.

Defense needs work, but now the offense does as well. To say that the team wasn't anything good with Moss is moronic. With Moss, Vikes have consitently been one of the dominant offenses in the league. Each year, every year. Now that strength lost it's best player. The lynchpin. Moss' absence was very obvious last year, the offense went from a machine to average.

Changes were needed. Changes were being made. Vikes added Winfield and Udeze last year, Williams the year before. With 30 mil to play with and no holes on the offense, Vikes were poised to continue the defensive renovations.

Going into this off-season, Vikes looked like one of the teams close to making the next step towards SuperBowl contention. They were finally getting an owner committed to winning (or so we thought...), had all their key players under contract and a buttload of cap room to work with. Defense was still 4-5 players away from being a quality unit, but that isn't an impossible accomplishment over two seasons.

EDIT: Put it this way, Vikes have had two losing seasons since Denny Green took over 15 years ago and missed the play-offs only 4 times. The cap caught up to them and caused two down seasons. To say that they suck and have sucked for years is woefully incorrect.

thestonedkoala
02-24-2005, 10:44 AM
Can anyone tell me why the Vikings needed another young linebacker when they already taken two in the 2nd round that were suppose to be pretty good? EJ Henderson and Dontarrious Thomas. What they needed more was a veteran that could teach them the aspects of the game.

I think it wouldn't be that bad if Buchanon came back and we still had the 7th and 20th pick overall.

JCD
02-24-2005, 11:36 AM
Local MN stations are interviewing Vikes right and left to get their reactions. Terrence Shaw, Claiborne, Bennett, Wiggins and Moe Williams thus far.

Not a one of them said Randy needed to go, was a bad teammate or was a problem in the locker-room. Said his image as a bad boy is off the mark. Major problem is that Moss is a very emotional guy and lets it get the better of him. Does stupid things in the heat of the moment.

Shaw (the only ex-Vike) blasted the coaching more than anything else and thinks the Vikes too a step backwards by losing Moss. Claiborne (a FA) echoed the missing Moss points, but thought the coaching should improve.

clefty
02-24-2005, 03:20 PM
I'm with JCD, but from the other side of the fence. People are talking about them grabbing an elite player at the #7 spot; news flash, they had Randy Moss.. how much more elite can they get?

What good is an elite player when even your QB doesn't want him on the team?

Hockeyfan02
02-24-2005, 03:40 PM
What good is an elite player when even your QB doesn't want him on the team?

Have you not read in this thread where JCD has posted 2 or 3 times where Culpepper said at the Pro Bowl where he wanted to have Moss on his team for the rest of his career?

Takeo
02-24-2005, 03:49 PM
Have you not read in this thread where JCD has posted 2 or 3 times where Culpepper said at the Pro Bowl where he wanted to have Moss on his team for the rest of his career?

He has also stated that Randy's antics were beginning to wear a bit thin despite how good of a friend he has been. Who's to say which comment is genuine and which comment is posturing??

johnny cool
02-24-2005, 04:50 PM
Have you not read in this thread where JCD has posted 2 or 3 times where Culpepper said at the Pro Bowl where he wanted to have Moss on his team for the rest of his career?
culpepper can come to the raiders too, if he wants

JCD
02-24-2005, 04:51 PM
He has also stated that Randy's antics were beginning to wear a bit thin despite how good of a friend he has been. Who's to say which comment is genuine and which comment is posturing??

Read the points in context. He said that he could see why management would tire of his antics. He said nothing but positives about his personal interaction with Randy. A point that has been echoed by EVERY Viking on the subject. It might be posturing if Wiggings, Williams, Claiborne, Shaw and Bennett all didn't say the exact same thing.

It Kills Me
02-24-2005, 05:12 PM
On the Leafs board we were disscussing with a NHL cap would the Leafs start doing the same hting.