Ott-Chi Proposal

Volchenkov
09-22-2003, 05:04 PM
to Ottawa: Klemm + Arnason
to Chicago: Rachunek + Varada

Rachunek is arguably the best player in the deal, while Arnason would form an unbelievable 4th line for the sens of Fisher-Arnason-Neil. Klemm and Leschyshyn would be a a veteran 3rd pairing, with Phillips-Chara and Redden-Volchenkov taking most of the ice time. Chicago's defense could desperately use some talent and youth.

edit:
Sen's lines:

Shastlivy-Spezza-Hossa
Schaefer-Bonk-Havlat
Smolinski-White-Alfredsson
Fisher-Arnason-Neil

Teemu
09-22-2003, 05:09 PM
to Ottawa: Klemm + Arnason
to Chicago: Rachunek + Varada

Rachunek is arguably the best player in the deal, while Arnason would form an unbelievable 4th line for the sens of Fisher-Arnason-Neil. Klemm and Leschyshyn would be a a veteran 3rd pairing, with Phillips-Chara and Redden-Volchenkov taking most of the ice time. Chicago's defense could desperately use some talent and youth.

edit:
Sen's lines:

Shastlivy-Spezza-Hossa
Schaefer-Bonk-Havlat
Smolinski-White-Alfredsson
Fisher-Arnason-Neil


Where do i sign?

JasonMacIsaac
09-22-2003, 05:59 PM
Ottawa kind of loses by 5 touchdowns and a field goal.

The Mars Volchenkov
09-22-2003, 06:01 PM
Doesn't help the Sens at all.

McCabe24
09-22-2003, 06:16 PM
Sens are way better off keeping Varada and Rachunek....

Skrymir
09-22-2003, 06:19 PM
Yup no point from an Ottawa POV.

BTW Volchenkov, what do you have agianst Varada?

officeglen
09-22-2003, 06:20 PM
Doesn't help the Sens at all.

Sure it does - as he said we get an "unbelievable 4th line" and we get another C - if we collect the whole set we could win the Cup.

We could then pair up the centers to play together -
1st line Bonk & Spezza & Hossa
2nd line White & Smoke & Alfie
3rd line Fisher & Arnason & Havlat
4th line Vermette* & Van Allen & Neil

* or trade Shastlivy & Schaefer & Vermette to get Comrie.

Instead of the LW lock, we could use the LW open. They say strength down the middle wins Cups and this lineup has it.

Volchenkov
09-22-2003, 06:47 PM
So throw in Anton Babchuck or something.

You only need 4 top-4 defenseman. I'm positive that Volchenkov is ready for it. Arnason is a perfect fit as a two-way PF type player. It would round out the forward corps perfectly, giving them 3 first lines and a 4th line that would be one of the best 3rd lines in all of hockey.

Chara and Redden play 25 minutes
Volchenkov + Phillips 20 each
thus 15 each for Klemm and Leschyshyn. It allows Volchenkov to get more ice-time.

Seriously, what do you guys think would even it up?

Ozy_Flame
09-22-2003, 07:09 PM
As much as I desipe the Senators ;) , I have to admit, it's a fair and just trade proposal. Helps out both teams and keeps the salaries in check too.

Jon Burke
09-22-2003, 08:05 PM
to Ottawa: Klemm + Arnason
to Chicago: Rachunek + Varada

Rachunek is arguably the best player in the deal, while Arnason would form an unbelievable 4th line for the sens of Fisher-Arnason-Neil. Klemm and Leschyshyn would be a a veteran 3rd pairing, with Phillips-Chara and Redden-Volchenkov taking most of the ice time. Chicago's defense could desperately use some talent and youth.

I think this deal could work with some reworking.

Klemm would be a nice addition to any defense, and would bring experience (He's won 2 Cups with the Avs), grit, defensive savvy, the ability to play lots of minutes and leadership to the Sens blueline. Arnason is not desperately needed in Ottawa and in fact, adding him into the deal really doesn't make much sense. The Sens would be better off getting a left winger like Calder (dunno if he's available, but he'd be a nice addition) than another center.

Rachunek and Varada bring some youth, energy and grit to a rather soft 'Hawk lineup that is getting a bit long in the tooth. Rachunek is a good young defenseman who could certainly help stabilize a weak Chicago blueline. Varada is a pest who can score around 10-15 goals a season.

Change Arnason to Calder and maybe add a pick from Ottawa (I really don't know much about Calder's value) and it could be a workable deal.

Nice proposal. :bow:

Teemu
09-22-2003, 08:29 PM
Rachunek and Varada bring some youth, energy and grit to a rather soft 'Hawk lineup that is getting a bit long in the tooth.

The average age of our players is 25, i think....

Slowe
09-22-2003, 09:25 PM
I'm not sure you guys know what you're asking for. Arnason a power forward? Babchuk a throw in? We are soft and need grit, so we're going to give you Calder? We have Bell, Calder, Ruutu, Nieminen, Nichol, and Strudwick to name a few for grit. An old line up when we could have four rookies on a team with young guys like Bell and Calder? I wouldn't mind picking up Rachunek but come on...

In regards to the original deal I won't comment on the value, but the fit isn't so great. While I would like to add Rachunek as he is a young good defenseman, I'd hate to add Klemm in there. The point is to add to the defensive depth and he's as close to a number one guy we have. It's good for the future, but lateral for now. Varada does nothing for me. I like his play, but we don't have room for him. We have Daze, Calder, Bell, and Nieminen on the left side. Bell could play on the right, but I'd like to see rookies like Vorobiev play on the wings. I hate to knock a trade and then not suggest one, but I'm not sure what would work. The hawks don't really have any vets you'd be interested in, and I'm not sure Smith is ready to trade our youth, even if it is for more youth.

In all reality Smith waits until the waiver draft and picks up the best of the scraps. We have to many offensive d-men (McCarthy Quint and Dempsey) and not enough crease clearers. Poapst tries, Klemm is ok, and Karpotsev is just worthless. Odds are Smith picks up a more physical one and exposes Dempsey. Babchuk makes the line up and Sutter sits a vet.

andora
09-22-2003, 10:03 PM
Sure it does - as he said we get an "unbelievable 4th line" and we get another C - if we collect the whole set we could win the Cup.

We could then pair up the centers to play together -
1st line Bonk & Spezza & Hossa
2nd line White & Smoke & Alfie
3rd line Fisher & Arnason & Havlat
4th line Vermette* & Van Allen & Neil

* or trade Shastlivy & Schaefer & Vermette to get Comrie.

Instead of the LW lock, we could use the LW open. They say strength down the middle wins Cups and this lineup has it.

that was beautiful :)

Mike8
09-22-2003, 10:11 PM
You only need 4 top-4 defenseman.

Not as a Stanley Cup contender. What if one of your top 4 goes down and Volchenkov has some jitters heading into his first playoffs where he'd be relied upon for big time minutes? Then the Sens are left with two reliable top 4 dmen. Never hurts to keep more quality defensemen around. Especially when they're at a low price, and still improving.

Added to that, while Arnason would look nice in Ottawa, he doesn't fulfill a need. Keep the quality defense intact!

Spezza
09-23-2003, 03:25 AM
Yup no point from an Ottawa POV.

BTW Volchenkov, what do you have agianst Varada?
Really have to wonder the same thing.

What did he do? come on;) be honest ;)

Volchenkov
09-23-2003, 08:35 AM
Yup no point from an Ottawa POV.

BTW Volchenkov, what do you have agianst Varada?

I think that he's useless to the senators as he didn't impress me much at all during the playoffs. I'd rather see Vermette up there than Varada.

Volchenkov
09-23-2003, 08:44 AM
I'm not sure you guys know what you're asking for. Arnason a power forward? Babchuk a throw in? We are soft and need grit, so we're going to give you Calder? We have Bell, Calder, Ruutu, Nieminen, Nichol, and Strudwick to name a few for grit. An old line up when we could have four rookies on a team with young guys like Bell and Calder? I wouldn't mind picking up Rachunek but come on...

In regards to the original deal I won't comment on the value, but the fit isn't so great. While I would like to add Rachunek as he is a young good defenseman, I'd hate to add Klemm in there. The point is to add to the defensive depth and he's as close to a number one guy we have. It's good for the future, but lateral for now. Varada does nothing for me. I like his play, but we don't have room for him. We have Daze, Calder, Bell, and Nieminen on the left side. Bell could play on the right, but I'd like to see rookies like Vorobiev play on the wings. I hate to knock a trade and then not suggest one, but I'm not sure what would work. The hawks don't really have any vets you'd be interested in, and I'm not sure Smith is ready to trade our youth, even if it is for more youth.

In all reality Smith waits until the waiver draft and picks up the best of the scraps. We have to many offensive d-men (McCarthy Quint and Dempsey) and not enough crease clearers. Poapst tries, Klemm is ok, and Karpotsev is just worthless. Odds are Smith picks up a more physical one and exposes Dempsey. Babchuk makes the line up and Sutter sits a vet.

Its very fair value wise. Rachunek > Arnason and Klemm > Varada. If anything the sens give up a little more. I agree it doesn't upgrade their defense by a huge margin right now, but the hawks are a team building for the future. I don't want Calder, even though he plays the LW. Arnason will effectively be replacing Varada, so it makes no diff if he's a LW or not. Rachunek provides something that the Hawks lack, they already have a better version of Arnason in Ruutu.

Rachunek isn't a vital part of the sens as he hasn't stepped up his game in the playoffs - so Klemm wouldn't be a much of a drop-off come playoff time.

o-dog
09-23-2003, 09:14 AM
Just sounds like you're trying to get rid of players you don't like. I felt Varada and Rachunek both did very good jobs in the playoffs although they can perform better.

Regarding the trade, Arnason is just another Todd White and Klemm is a younger Leschysyn. End result is a smaller, less grittier forward corps and less mobile defense with the loss of Rachunek. And if you want a great 4th line center, Fisher is the man for that job as he'd be #3 on most teams.

I've said this a few times before and I'll say it again...the Sens would be stupid to make any kind of trade right now, the team is fine the way it is. Wait until just before playoffs and see who's injured, who's not playing well and who's available. Unless there is power forward left-wing up for grabs without mortgaging their future and driving the salary way up, there's not much point in getting anything other than a role player for injury insurance. (and how many PF LW's are there...4 or 5?)

o-dog
09-23-2003, 09:15 AM
I think that he's useless to the senators as he didn't impress me much at all during the playoffs. I'd rather see Vermette up there than Varada.

Vermette doesn't bring anything that Varada can. What he would bring, other than inexperience, are qualities that the Senators have in droves.

Volchenkov
09-23-2003, 09:16 AM
Just sounds like you're trying to get rid of players you don't like. I felt Varada and Rachunek both did very good jobs in the playoffs although they can perform better.

Regarding the trade, Arnason is just another Todd White and Klemm is a younger Leschysyn. End result is a smaller, less grittier forward corps and less mobile defense with the loss of Rachunek. And if you want a great 4th line center, Fisher is the man for that job as he'd be #3 on most teams.

I've said this a few times before and I'll say it again...the Sens would be stupid to make any kind of trade right now, the team is fine the way it is. Wait until just before playoffs and see who's injured, who's not playing well and who's available. Unless there is power forward left-wing up for grabs without mortgaging their future and driving the salary way up, there's not much point in getting anything other than a role player for injury insurance. (and how many PF LW's are there...4 or 5?)

It hurts to trade rachunek, I by no means WANT to egt rid of him. I think you guys are all underrating Arnason.

Other Dave
09-23-2003, 09:39 AM
It hurts to trade rachunek, I by no means WANT to egt rid of him. I think you guys are all underrating Arnason.

I think it would be tough to rate Arnason as a candidate for Ottawa. Where would he fit on the depth chart? 6th? 7th? He's certainly no better this season than Bonk, Spezza, Smolinski, White, and Fisher.

Other Dave

Volchenkov
09-23-2003, 09:50 AM
I think it would be tough to rate Arnason as a candidate for Ottawa. Where would he fit on the depth chart? 6th? 7th? He's certainly no better this season than Bonk, Spezza, Smolinski, White, and Fisher.

Other Dave

Fisher is going to be a LW anyway. As I posted in the original post, we'd end up with something like this:

Shast-Spezza-Hossa
Schaefer-Bonk-Havlat
Smoke-White-Alfie
Fisher-Arnason-Neil

basically, you switch Fisher into Varada's spot and have Arnason as the 4th line centre. I love the idea of having 4 complete lines. Arnason and Fisher are very similar players, with similar production at the same age. The trade value of fisher=trade value of arnason.

Other Dave
09-23-2003, 12:04 PM
basically, you switch Fisher into Varada's spot and have Arnason as the 4th line centre.

You want to trade a starting defenceman for a guy to do Shaun Van Allen's job?

Other Dave

o-dog
09-23-2003, 02:04 PM
Fisher is going to be a LW anyway. As I posted in the original post, we'd end up with something like this:

Shast-Spezza-Hossa
Schaefer-Bonk-Havlat
Smoke-White-Alfie
Fisher-Arnason-Neil

basically, you switch Fisher into Varada's spot and have Arnason as the 4th line centre. I love the idea of having 4 complete lines. Arnason and Fisher are very similar players, with similar production at the same age. The trade value of fisher=trade value of arnason.

Fisher is much better at centre...if you recall the playoffs last year, he looked lost at wing. Why trade to get a scoring forward for your 4th line anyways? I wouldn't trade Varada for Arnason straight up - Varada brings something to this team that we need, in spite of what you think of him as a hockey player.

To be honest, Varada surprised me with his play and he clicks with Bonk given that they're friends. Don't forget that VV scored 50 in the WHL - he won't ever come within a snifter of that in the NHL but he can put the puck in the net the odd time while driving the other team nuts. Great intangible to have...

salty justice
01-14-2005, 01:11 AM
I'd do it.

V for Voodoo
01-14-2005, 09:28 PM
I'd do it.

:teach: