Can't say they didn't know

kutdacheez
09-24-2003, 03:21 AM
How about Olczyk's:
"Guy's are getting the opportunities, if they don't perform to where we think they need to be, then we have some tough decisions to make, because there have been other players who have stepped up."

The key to his comments IMO is, "But again, it's been publicized . . . they've known. They were the first to know."

According to Dejan Kovacevic three of those main players not stepping it up are Kraft, Sivek and Beech.
That's a good sign and a bad sign. The good sign is that communications are going on and turkey's on the table for them. The bad sign is obvious . . . what's with these guys? :dunno:

Evilo
09-24-2003, 05:12 AM
Yeah I'm dissapointed.
Kraft I thought was about to break through.
Beech was to me a solid player for years to come and Sivek had good upside.
I think their careers is in serious jeopardy now that they can't crack the lineup in front of other prospects with less talent and pedigree.

KungFuPenguin
09-24-2003, 05:55 AM
Kraft is the big one, though, since he's waiver fodder if he doesn't earn a spot. Sivek and Beech can still salvage their careers with a dominating AHL season and eventual callups.

Der Schweinehund
09-24-2003, 08:21 AM
I believe that Kraft will stay up with the team, virtually regardless of what happens. With the AHL eligibility, the poor performance will doom Beech and Sivek to the minors - KungFu had it right by using the word "salvage."

Give Kraft a dozen games playing with the better players and see if that wakes him up. Otherwise, after that point, I have no problem with him going on the waiver wire.

Now this begs the topic - with the poor preported performances of Beech, Kraft, and Sivek, does this worry anyone about a serious lack of quality young centers? The regress of Endicott may also contribute. A year ago - and perhaps pre-training camp - I think this may have been a strong suit. In fact I believe the weakness to most people was the lack of a game breaker and scoring wingers.

Der Schweinehund
09-24-2003, 08:29 AM
On another note, I still realize it is VERY early but for argument's sake...

For the first year after Jagr was traded, Beech was the best player rec'd in the package.

For the second year after Jagr was traded, Sivek was the best player rec'd in the package.

Now going into the third year after Jagr was traded, is it Lupaschuk's turn to be the best player rec'd in the package?

Evilo
09-24-2003, 08:39 AM
Endicott is not regressing.
He's had a strong camp by most accounts.
Don't base his "regress" on a bad year in the AHL.

kutdacheez
09-24-2003, 08:41 AM
Now going into the third year after Jagr was traded, is it Lupaschuk's turn to be the best player rec'd in the package?

Haven't I been telling you that all along? :rolly:

I don't think Beech look that bad in the Igloo game. Kraft was invisable but so were many other players. The PP is reported in every game as pathetic.

We will see what happens when Mario and Straka are playing . . . and I doon't remember if I said any about Toby Petersen looked pretty decent . . . and you know how I feel about small, rather slow players!

If I had to make a guess I think Beech and Kraft stay up and possibly Edzo is just shoving a firecraker into their rectum with his comments. It certainly should get their attention.

Koltsov71
09-24-2003, 08:55 AM
If I had to make a guess I think Beech and Kraft stay up and possibly Edzo is just shoving a firecraker into their rectum with his comments. It certainly should get their attention.

That would certainly get my attention.

No Quarter
09-24-2003, 10:42 AM
That's a shame, I was really counting on Kraft to step up this year.
For a short stint he showed glimpses of being a good 1st or 2nd liner last season until Kehoe prematurely benched him for not being on the score sheet for 2 or 3 games.
And also it really blows that we trade the best player in the NHL for 3 probable stiffs and couldn't even get a decent Dman out of the deal like Brendan Witt.

kutdacheez
09-24-2003, 11:11 AM
Well, eight just announced re-assigned:
Back to WB/S:
Tomas Surovy,
Guillaume Lefebvre,
Michal Sivek,
Toby Petersen,
Shane Endicott,
Matt Hussey, and
Brendan Buckley

Paul Bissonnette, was returned to Saginaw.


A couple of surprises there, eh?

Koltsov71
09-24-2003, 11:13 AM
Well, eight just announced re-assigned:
Back to WB/S:
Tomas Surovy,
Guillaume Lefebvre,
Michal Sivek,
Toby Petersen,
Shane Endicott,
Matt Hussey, and
Brendan Buckley

Paul Bissonnette, was returned to Saginaw.


A couple of surprises there, eh?

I don't see anything there that I didn't expect.

Don'tcry4mejanhrdina
09-24-2003, 11:39 AM
Well, Kraft and Beech still have a chance to make the team. Hopefully they can do something with it.

Doofis_L_Hipster
09-24-2003, 02:47 PM
Well, Kraft and Beech still have a chance to make the team. Hopefully they can do something with it.

What have Kraft and Beech shown that Surovy and Sivek didn't? If anything, Surovy probably has been the most visible of the 4 this month.

In my opinion it's really the organization giving these two one last attempt to show something, anything to give the Penguins a reason to keep them around (especially in Kraft's case).

tom_servo
09-24-2003, 02:58 PM
On another note, I still realize it is VERY early but for argument's sake...

For the first year after Jagr was traded, Beech was the best player rec'd in the package.

For the second year after Jagr was traded, Sivek was the best player rec'd in the package.

Now going into the third year after Jagr was traded, is it Lupaschuk's turn to be the best player rec'd in the package?

Yeah, but he'll probably follow the path of the other two.

Jacob
09-24-2003, 03:23 PM
Yeah I'm dissapointed.
Kraft I thought was about to break through.
Beech was to me a solid player for years to come and Sivek had good upside.
I think their careers is in serious jeopardy now that they can't crack the lineup in front of other prospects with less talent and pedigree.

Beech and Sivek's careers are in jeopardy because of a lackluster preseason?

Sheesh, ever hear of a slump?

spence___
09-24-2003, 03:35 PM
What have Kraft and Beech shown that Surovy and Sivek didn't? If anything, Surovy probably has been the most visible of the 4 this month.

In my opinion it's really the organization giving these two one last attempt to show something, anything to give the Penguins a reason to keep them around (especially in Kraft's case).

Kraft's only been in one preseason game.

Evilo
09-24-2003, 09:34 PM
Beech and Sivek's careers are in jeopardy because of a lackluster preseason?

Sheesh, ever hear of a slump?
These guys have been in a "slump" for two years now, meaning that although they've been playing well at certain times (Sivek first few NHL games) or levels (Beech in the AHL), they haven't been able to crack a VERY crackable lineup.
For top prospect like these two, that's pretty bad.
What will another team's management think if these guys can't crack the Penguins in a youth movement?
Do you think they'll be able to crack a playoff team lineup?
I really think both will need to work an awful lot this year and make up for their preseason.
Otherwise, yes their career might be in jeopardy.

Mr. T
09-25-2003, 04:05 AM
These guys have been in a "slump" for two years now, meaning that although they've been playing well at certain times (Sivek first few NHL games) or levels (Beech in the AHL), they haven't been able to crack a VERY crackable lineup.
For top prospect like these two, that's pretty bad.
What will another team's management think if these guys can't crack the Penguins in a youth movement?
Do you think they'll be able to crack a playoff team lineup?
I really think both will need to work an awful lot this year and make up for their preseason.
Otherwise, yes their career might be in jeopardy.

Beech and Sivek are only 22. Some players take longer to develop. It's that simple.

Not to make excuses here, but Beech had a few injuries last year and was too inexperienced to be in the NHL the year before. I'd give him this year and at least next year before I'd write him off. Same goes for Sivek. He has the size, speed, defensive prowess and physical game to be a 3rd line center or better in the NHL. Just don't expect 80 points from him. ;)

Koltsov71
09-25-2003, 05:42 AM
Beech and Sivek are only 22. Some players take longer to develop. It's that simple.

Not to make excuses here, but Beech had a few injuries last year and was too inexperienced to be in the NHL the year before. I'd give him this year and at least next year before I'd write him off. Same goes for Sivek. He has the size, speed, defensive prowess and physical game to be a 3rd line center or better in the NHL. Just don't expect 80 points from him. ;)

I agree 100%.

kutdacheez
09-25-2003, 05:46 AM
Smooth and Beech will never be used in the same sentence.

Hmmmm? Interesting, to say the least.

Sounds like our company . . . where we incorporated this philosophy into our company motto: Every Rule Here can be Broken, Except This One.

kutdacheez
09-25-2003, 06:17 AM
A little bitty comment of our hockey reporters . . . every year, just about every one of these reporters single out a couple players for their dog-house and then continuously make negative comment on them.

Kovacevic, for example has been on Milan Kraft for two years now, and don't look at (this post) as any support for Kraft . . . just a highlight of the negative reporting by some reporters and posters.

Kovacevic has had Milan Kraft at the top of his list of non-performers for two years now. And, if you notice Olczyk was claiming that Kraft was doing well and singled him out as doing well in a news conference, in camp.

This is a new year, a new system and to think when defense is what is asked for first, from these guys . . . who's to say that "listening to the radio games" or reading "USA Today's ticker" . . . presents a clear picture to determine just how well he really is playing?
Maybe some of you guys should give a little more detail as to how you formed your personal opinion on him so far this year. I've been to two camp sessions and one game and I can't. How are you people determining what he's doing "this year" so far?

According to the line written by "impartial views" on Kraft . . . they notice that time may be running out him too. How could you not take note of that?
However, they also claim that he sees the ice extremely well, is heady and has very good stick-handling ability. That he's got an improved size but hasn't proven his ability to handle the physical side nor physical defenders yet. He plays the game without a sense of panic and the with the above negative comments that he has to learn to be better at face-offs.

Has he?
Is he?
For crÍpes sake, I'm there and I'm still not sure.

It always amazes me that some of you with no contact at all to this guy (and others) can determine so much, from so little, and present with so much conviction.
Where do you get that from????

Miss Cleo?