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Duguay 09-25-2003, 06:09 PM http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=marrapese-burrell_nancy&id=1622556
By Nancy Marrapese-Burrell
Special to ESPN.com
Last season was one of firsts for Boston Bruins center Joe Thornton.
Having transformed from a gawky 17-year-old No. 1 overall draft pick in 1997 to a dominant force in the National Hockey League, Thornton finished third in the Art Ross Trophy race with his first 100-point season last year and was one of only three players to reach the plateau.
He also finished his first season as the Bruins' captain.
Still only 24, no one doubts Thornton's game will improve along with his leadership skills. But one of the challenges for him this year will be doing it alone.
nhlbruin 09-25-2003, 06:16 PM remember the link to the article next time...legally we're not supposed to duplicate the entire thing
IkeaMonkey* 09-25-2003, 06:26 PM He credited the source.....which I believe should be good enough...
HockeyGoddess 09-25-2003, 06:33 PM He credited the source.....which I believe should be good enough...
No, it's not good enough. See the following hfboards.com guideline.
2i) Reprinting (copying and pasting) of copyrighted articles is prohibited. Generally you can assume that anything you find online is copyrighted. We prefer you post a synopsis in your own words and the link to the article, but it's permissible to quote a few lines. DO NOT POST ENTIRE ARTICLES. If you have a question about copyrights see http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html Brad Templeton's Ten Big Myths about Copyrights
nhlbruin 09-25-2003, 06:34 PM it's in the posted board rules...i'm not trying to act like a moderator or anything, just mentioning it as a reminder...i thought we were all kind of adjusting a little bit to the new formally posted rules as a group...i'd expect someone to bring something to my attention if i slipped up too.
Duguay 09-25-2003, 06:37 PM No, it's not good enough. See the following hfboards.com guideline.
2i) Reprinting (copying and pasting) of copyrighted articles is prohibited. Generally you can assume that anything you find online is copyrighted. We prefer you post a synopsis in your own words and the link to the article, but it's permissible to quote a few lines. DO NOT POST ENTIRE ARTICLES. If you have a question about copyrights see http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html Brad Templeton's Ten Big Myths about Copyrights
Sorry. Duguay
HockeyGoddess 09-25-2003, 06:42 PM Sorry. Duguay
No worries... it's all sorted out and no one got hurt. :)
it's in the posted board rules...i'm not trying to act like a moderator or anything, just mentioning it as a reminder...i thought we were all kind of adjusting a little bit to the new formally posted rules as a group...i'd expect someone to bring something to my attention if i slipped up too.
Actually, the new formally posted rules aren't exactly new... they're an exact copy of the rules posted in hfboards.com's FAQ, and have been in existence since our lovely Bruins board blew up (and was subsequently shut down for a bit) last year. I appreciate that you gave a heads up about it, though, so thanks.
misterjaggers 09-25-2003, 07:03 PM I hate to nitpick but O'Connell didn't say the Bruins would go get a center. He said, " We've got two center spots open and whoever seizes it will have it. IF they don't, we'll go get one."
Based on the game reports so far, Zino is a legitimate candidate for second or third line center...
According to the "Detroit massacre" game reports, this guy who just flew in from Siberia and warmed-up a two or three times in Wilmington looked good...
Ratty 09-25-2003, 07:07 PM It's interesting that O'Connell, faced with a lack of personnel to step up and take the second line centre slot, is now talking about getting one.
That means we have to trade either a valuable team asset or a top tier prospect. See now why he was foolish to let Stumpel go? How could he weaken this team without having a candidate ready to take over second line duties? How long can this bozo hang on as GM?
misterjaggers 09-25-2003, 07:13 PM It's interesting that O'Connell, faced with a lack of personnel to step up and take the second line centre slot, is now talking about getting one.
That means we have to trade either a valuable team asset or a top tier prospect. See now why he was foolish to let Stumpel go? How could he weaken this team without having a candidate ready to take over second line duties? How long can this bozo hang on as GM?
Naturally MOC will look for another center outside the organization if no one steps up; but I think they expect Rolston and Zino to do the job...
They let Stumpel go because they're cheapskates...
Rumpy 09-25-2003, 07:40 PM I say it wasn't a mistake lettin Stumpel go but they did it in the wrong way they didn't like McInnis Oliwa and Stumpel but I think they traded Stumps thinking atleast we got rid of him without adding the 2nd line center in the long run......... I think getting rid of him was good we won't have a mediocre 2nd line center weather Hilbert or Zino prove to be his equal this year I doubt it but next year or 2 years from now we are better off........yes we could have kept Stumps and let what ever rookie makes the team play else where but I think they need a shot and they actually have a spot to earn........ I like this philosophy in which a team has to lose a top 12 forward and everybody at camp knows they lost a top 12 forward........if you have the best credetials or have the best camp that spot is yours unlike the you have to beat somebody out to get the job cause it never happens old guys always stick around........even the really good teams generally bring a guy along during the season I can think of Rupp Pahlsson Kapanen they were all brought along slowly but ended up having decent rolls on good teams.....Rumpy
Buffaloed 09-25-2003, 07:52 PM That means we have to trade either a valuable team asset or a top tier prospect.
Oates and Ronning can still be had for the cost of a contract. I'm amazed that Ronning is still out there. That guy gets no respect. Sure he's old and small, but he's still a very effective player. Unlike the other golden oldies, Ronning is also amazingly durable. He put up 48 points in Lemaire's stifling system. He'd be a lot more productive in Bean Town. Best of all, he'd come cheap. Oates wants a substantial offer (my est ~2.5-3 mil) to put his 41 year old body through another season, whereas Ronning who made $1.85 mil last season would probably sign for the same or take a cut.
stungun 09-25-2003, 08:04 PM agree with buffaloed this franchise will not spend the money to reach the next level. but we will spend it when our owner panics about attendance records. sign potvin, coffey, donato, but let weinrich go and guerin go and never ever ever think about signing someone like adam oates or ronning. oh wait we already had it out with oates, dont put the golf clubs to far back in the closet boys. pitiful penny pinchers.
nhlbruin 09-25-2003, 08:20 PM Actually, the new formally posted rules aren't exactly new... they're an exact copy of the rules posted in hfboards.com's FAQ, and have been in existence since our lovely Bruins board blew up (and was subsequently shut down for a bit) last year. I appreciate that you gave a heads up about it, though, so thanks.
yeah, i meant that they're newly posted :)
As for Oates and Ronning I wouldn't mind having either...I loved Oates when he was here and certainly wouldn't mind if he retired a Bruin (if they'd take him back), but Ronning's just as good a choice since he's younger and therefore likely less brittle.
That being said, I don't think it'll happen unless Zinovjev falters.
Personally, I'd rather pick up a winger to go on the second line.
MeisterBruinmaker 09-25-2003, 11:18 PM Thanks for the link.
While I am scratching my head about his strategy, it's good to see that O'Connell is serious about making sure the team is deep enough at center. I've wanted to believe this all along, thinking that after the summer went by with no acquisitions, O'C may end up having to get someone between now and the first month into the season.
Though I was open, I was never really sold on Hilbert, Zinovjev or a convert such as Grosek as being the real answer....and I was always hopeful that Donato wouldn't be our #3 center. If anything, I might be able to live with Zam in the third slot if he really stood out and if a credible, reliable second line could be built around Rolston.
So the question begs, if O'Connell has to go get someone, who...and how? As far as the 'how' part, the Bruins don't have any young cheap proven players that are expendable, which is usually the coveted asset sought by other GMs. But what they do have several quality prospects which are close. In the recent past, Okie thankfully hasn't shown a willingness to deal any of these guys. This time he may have to. Other than that, there's draft picks. As far as roster players go, there's really no expendable assets of consequence, except perhaps Gill, but then the B's would have to resign Boynton and maybe Berard while resting their future hopes on their prospects (O'Donnell, McGillis & Moran are scheduled to be UFAs) - and their ability to retain/obtain UFA talent in an unsure time (one that isn't hospitable to the B's philosophies).
As far as who, let the speculation begin.
My guess is, the B's wont want to pay too steep a price. That means they could get a pending UFA, which seems entirely doubtful in light of JJ's comments a few weeks back and the current list of centers, or borderline #2-3 center, along the lines of Matt Cullen. Among the other possibilities:
Mike Comrie - The best center on the market. He's small, but creative. Obviously, Lowe would like a center in return, which the B's don't have/ Also, he would exact a high price. Seems like it would be a tough deal to consummate.
Pierre Turgeon - Armstrong has said Pierre will be given every chance to make the team. If he stumbles, it could renew more trade talks. While that may happen, it's doesn't look likely for the B's. Aside from the fact that Dallas would have to pick up more than half of his remaining salary, Jacobs has said he does not believe spending money equates to a winner (which rings hollow because we knew this all along), and he wants to see more bang for his buck. Turgeon is no guarantee for a bang for your buck.
Curtis Brown - He had a down season, and with the depth at center, he may not be a shoe-in for the #3 spot. Still, he's a character guy who's still a pretty solid 2-way player, and the Sabres may not be willing to give up on him considering they are looking for a big rebound under their new ownership.
Tim Connolly - He struggled mightily last season, but Regier knows he has a valuable commodity on his hands. If by any chance he became available, which seems doubtful, he would be costly.
Craig Conroy - He's a pending UFA, but Calgary needs him because they don't have much depth themselves up the middle. And even if they were interested in moving him, Sutter would want Sutter-like players which we don't have except maybe Knuble.
Espen Knutsen - a smallish Jacket who could be expendable.
Jan Hrdina/Chris Gratton - With Langkow, Sillinger, Kolanos and Taffe, the Yotes are stacked up the middle. Still, they have strength by committee, and need to sort out the respective roles. Several of those guys can be shifted to wing. The big picture for Phoenix is to find the right mix of guys and ensure the team is on the rebound. That may take a few months or more.
Others???
IkeaMonkey* 09-26-2003, 09:54 AM No, it's not good enough. See the following hfboards.com guideline.
2i) Reprinting (copying and pasting) of copyrighted articles is prohibited. Generally you can assume that anything you find online is copyrighted. We prefer you post a synopsis in your own words and the link to the article, but it's permissible to quote a few lines. DO NOT POST ENTIRE ARTICLES. If you have a question about copyrights see http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html Brad Templeton's Ten Big Myths about Copyrights
Meh, I was just going by common sense. You can't steal/take credit for material if you list the source....especially when it comes from a website and you have the website listed...
Duguay 09-26-2003, 09:59 AM I hate to nitpick but O'Connell didn't say the Bruins would go get a center. He said, " We've got two center spots open and whoever seizes it will have it. IF they don't, we'll go get one."
Based on the game reports so far, Zino is a legitimate candidate for second or third line center...
According to the "Detroit massacre" game reports, this guy who just flew in from Siberia and warmed-up a two or three times in Wilmington looked good...
If I could put the whole quote in the subject line, I would.
It's the nature of headlines my friend. You see it daily in the newspapers.
Thanks for the link.
While I am scratching my head about his strategy, it's good to see that O'Connell is serious about making sure the team is deep enough at center. I've wanted to believe this all along, thinking that after the summer went by with no acquisitions, O'C may end up having to get someone between now and the first month into the season.
Though I was open, I was never really sold on Hilbert, Zinovjev or a convert such as Grosek as being the real answer....and I was always hopeful that Donato wouldn't be our #3 center. If anything, I might be able to live with Zam in the third slot if he really stood out and if a credible, reliable second line could be built around Rolston.
So the question begs, if O'Connell has to go get someone, who...and how? As far as the 'how' part, the Bruins don't have any young cheap proven players that are expendable, which is usually the coveted asset sought by other GMs. But what they do have several quality prospects which are close. In the recent past, Okie thankfully hasn't shown a willingness to deal any of these guys. This time he may have to. Other than that, there's draft picks. As far as roster players go, there's really no expendable assets of consequence, except perhaps Gill, but then the B's would have to resign Boynton and maybe Berard while resting their future hopes on their prospects (O'Donnell, McGillis & Moran are scheduled to be UFAs) - and their ability to retain/obtain UFA talent in an unsure time (one that isn't hospitable to the B's philosophies).
As far as who, let the speculation begin.
My guess is, the B's wont want to pay too steep a price. That means they could get a pending UFA, which seems entirely doubtful in light of JJ's comments a few weeks back and the current list of centers, or borderline #2-3 center, along the lines of Matt Cullen. Among the other possibilities:
Mike Comrie - The best center on the market. He's small, but creative. Obviously, Lowe would like a center in return, which the B's don't have/ Also, he would exact a high price. Seems like it would be a tough deal to consummate.
Pierre Turgeon - Armstrong has said Pierre will be given every chance to make the team. If he stumbles, it could renew more trade talks. While that may happen, it's doesn't look likely for the B's. Aside from the fact that Dallas would have to pick up more than half of his remaining salary, Jacobs has said he does not believe spending money equates to a winner (which rings hollow because we knew this all along), and he wants to see more bang for his buck. Turgeon is no guarantee for a bang for your buck.
Curtis Brown - He had a down season, and with the depth at center, he may not be a shoe-in for the #3 spot. Still, he's a character guy who's still a pretty solid 2-way player, and the Sabres may not be willing to give up on him considering they are looking for a big rebound under their new ownership.
Tim Connolly - He struggled mightily last season, but Regier knows he has a valuable commodity on his hands. If by any chance he became available, which seems doubtful, he would be costly.
Craig Conroy - He's a pending UFA, but Calgary needs him because they don't have much depth themselves up the middle. And even if they were interested in moving him, Sutter would want Sutter-like players which we don't have except maybe Knuble.
Espen Knutsen - a smallish Jacket who could be expendable.
Jan Hrdina/Chris Gratton - With Langkow, Sillinger, Kolanos and Taffe, the Yotes are stacked up the middle. Still, they have strength by committee, and need to sort out the respective roles. Several of those guys can be shifted to wing. The big picture for Phoenix is to find the right mix of guys and ensure the team is on the rebound. That may take a few months or more.
Others???
Honestly, I think Tim Connolly wouldn't be too hard to obtain. For one thing, Buffalo has a wealth of centers. Being from Rochester, I can tell you first hand about most of them. Briere, Brown, Mair, Begin, and lets not forget Roy. Roy in my opinion can make the Buffalo squad immediatley. No need for a stop in Rochester, though I imagine the Sabres will give him some time if the roster remains as is. He could take Brown or Connolly's spot before January. Also, Drury can play center if need be.
That said, Buffalo won't be looking for a center in return, at least not a proven one. Also, Buffalo is solid in goal, so they won't be looking for Raycroft or our Finnish wonder. In fact, Buffalo doesn't have any glaring holes...they don't have any glaring stars either.
I think Buffalo is using Connolly wrong. I've watched him enough to know that he is not going to be useful as a third line center. First, he doesn't land any of his checks. He almost always pulls up. Second, his game is all about being smooth. The guy has incredible hands...incredible. I watched him undress a goalie on a break away in preseason...it was embarrasing. He stickhandles, he passes, he makes the pretty goal....he is a second line center. He doesn't play both ends well enough or dominate one end enough to be a #1. He doesn't play defense enough or grind enough to be a 3rd....He is a set up man that needs a sniper and a grinder on his wing...that is all.
In my opinion, to get Connolly, your going to have to take something else...Zhitnik. They more or less replaced him by adding Delmore....well, at least they think so. Buffalo has a great young core of defensemen similar to what ours will be in a few years. However, they did trade away one of their higher defense prospects....was his name Jeffery Ballard..., as well as Rhett Warrener to aquire Chris Drury.
Would we be willing to add one of Jurcina, Morrison, Stuart, or Jillson to the package. In my opinion...it depends on which one. That said, if they did force Zhitnik as part of the deal, I wouldn't be disappointed. He is still young at 30, mobile, small but bulky(kind of like Lapointe on D), has been rumoured to want out of Buffalo, plays both ends fair, and plays the body hard. If your remember, he is the guy who gets under Thornton's skin every time we play the Sabres.
How about this?
Bos:
Zhitnik
Connolly
Buf:
2nd(LA, I'd imagine with their injury history that it will be higher than ours)
3rd
Hilbert
one of Huml, or Samuellson
one of Jurcina, Morrison, Stuart, or Jillson
Samsonov-Thornton-Murray
Knuble-Connolly-Lapointe
Ax-Rolston-Zinojev
Zhitnik-Gill
Boynton-McGillis
Jillson/Morrison/Moran-O'donnell
Thanks for the link.
While I am scratching my head about his strategy, it's good to see that O'Connell is serious about making sure the team is deep enough at center. I've wanted to believe this all along, thinking that after the summer went by with no acquisitions, O'C may end up having to get someone between now and the first month into the season.
Though I was open, I was never really sold on Hilbert, Zinovjev or a convert such as Grosek as being the real answer....and I was always hopeful that Donato wouldn't be our #3 center. If anything, I might be able to live with Zam in the third slot if he really stood out and if a credible, reliable second line could be built around Rolston.
So the question begs, if O'Connell has to go get someone, who...and how? As far as the 'how' part, the Bruins don't have any young cheap proven players that are expendable, which is usually the coveted asset sought by other GMs. But what they do have several quality prospects which are close. In the recent past, Okie thankfully hasn't shown a willingness to deal any of these guys. This time he may have to. Other than that, there's draft picks. As far as roster players go, there's really no expendable assets of consequence, except perhaps Gill, but then the B's would have to resign Boynton and maybe Berard while resting their future hopes on their prospects (O'Donnell, McGillis & Moran are scheduled to be UFAs) - and their ability to retain/obtain UFA talent in an unsure time (one that isn't hospitable to the B's philosophies).
As far as who, let the speculation begin.
My guess is, the B's wont want to pay too steep a price. That means they could get a pending UFA, which seems entirely doubtful in light of JJ's comments a few weeks back and the current list of centers, or borderline #2-3 center, along the lines of Matt Cullen. Among the other possibilities:
Mike Comrie - The best center on the market. He's small, but creative. Obviously, Lowe would like a center in return, which the B's don't have/ Also, he would exact a high price. Seems like it would be a tough deal to consummate.
Pierre Turgeon - Armstrong has said Pierre will be given every chance to make the team. If he stumbles, it could renew more trade talks. While that may happen, it's doesn't look likely for the B's. Aside from the fact that Dallas would have to pick up more than half of his remaining salary, Jacobs has said he does not believe spending money equates to a winner (which rings hollow because we knew this all along), and he wants to see more bang for his buck. Turgeon is no guarantee for a bang for your buck.
Curtis Brown - He had a down season, and with the depth at center, he may not be a shoe-in for the #3 spot. Still, he's a character guy who's still a pretty solid 2-way player, and the Sabres may not be willing to give up on him considering they are looking for a big rebound under their new ownership.
Tim Connolly - He struggled mightily last season, but Regier knows he has a valuable commodity on his hands. If by any chance he became available, which seems doubtful, he would be costly.
Craig Conroy - He's a pending UFA, but Calgary needs him because they don't have much depth themselves up the middle. And even if they were interested in moving him, Sutter would want Sutter-like players which we don't have except maybe Knuble.
Espen Knutsen - a smallish Jacket who could be expendable.
Jan Hrdina/Chris Gratton - With Langkow, Sillinger, Kolanos and Taffe, the Yotes are stacked up the middle. Still, they have strength by committee, and need to sort out the respective roles. Several of those guys can be shifted to wing. The big picture for Phoenix is to find the right mix of guys and ensure the team is on the rebound. That may take a few months or more.
Others???
Honestly, I think Tim Connolly wouldn't be too hard to obtain. For one thing, Buffalo has a wealth of centers. Being from Rochester, I can tell you first hand about most of them. Briere, Brown, Mair, Begin, and lets not forget Roy. Roy in my opinion can make the Buffalo squad immediatley. No need for a stop in Rochester, though I imagine the Sabres will give him some time if the roster remains as is. He could take Brown or Connolly's spot before January. Also, Drury can play center if need be.
That said, Buffalo won't be looking for a center in return, at least not a proven one. Also, Buffalo is solid in goal, so they won't be looking for Raycroft or our Finnish wonder. In fact, Buffalo doesn't have any glaring holes...they don't have any glaring stars either.
I think Buffalo is using Connolly wrong. I've watched him enough to know that he is not going to be useful as a third line center. First, he doesn't land any of his checks. He almost always pulls up. Second, his game is all about being smooth. The guy has incredible hands...incredible. I watched him undress a goalie on a break away in preseason...it was embarrasing. He stickhandles, he passes, he makes the pretty goal....he is a second line center. He doesn't play both ends well enough or dominate one end enough to be a #1. He doesn't play defense enough or grind enough to be a 3rd....He is a set up man that needs a sniper and a grinder on his wing...that is all.
In my opinion, to get Connolly, your going to have to take something else...Zhitnik. They more or less replaced him by adding Delmore....well, at least they think so. Buffalo has a great young core of defensemen similar to what ours will be in a few years. However, they did trade away one of their higher defense prospects....was his name Jeffery Ballard..., as well as Rhett Warrener to aquire Chris Drury.
Would we be willing to add one of Jurcina, Morrison, Stuart, or Jillson to the package. In my opinion...it depends on which one. That said, if they did force Zhitnik as part of the deal, I wouldn't be disappointed. He is still young at 30, mobile, small but bulky(kind of like Lapointe on D), has been rumoured to want out of Buffalo, plays both ends fair, and plays the body hard. If your remember, he is the guy who gets under Thornton's skin every time we play the Sabres.
How about this?
Bos:
Zhitnik
Connolly
Buf:
2nd(LA, I'd imagine with their injury history that it will be higher than ours)
3rd
Hilbert
one of Huml, or Samuellson
one of Jurcina, Morrison, Stuart, or Jillson
Samsonov-Thornton-Murray
Knuble-Connolly-Lapointe
Ax-Rolston-Zinojev
Zhitnik-Gill
Boynton-McGillis
Jillson/Morrison/Moran-O'donnell
Bruwinz37 09-26-2003, 10:18 AM Would we be willing to add one of Jurcina, Morrison, Stuart, or Jillson to the package. In my opinion...it depends on which one. That said, if they did force Zhitnik as part of the deal, I wouldn't be disappointed. He is still young at 30, mobile, small but bulky(kind of like Lapointe on D), has been rumoured to want out of Buffalo, plays both ends fair, and plays the body hard. If your remember, he is the guy who gets under Thornton's skin every time we play the Sabres.
How about this?
Bos:
Zhitnik
Connolly
Buf:
2nd(LA, I'd imagine with their injury history that it will be higher than ours)
3rd
Hilbert
one of Huml, or Samuellson
one of Jurcina, Morrison, Stuart, or Jillson
Samsonov-Thornton-Murray
Knuble-Connolly-Lapointe
Ax-Rolston-Zinojev
Zhitnik-Gill
Boynton-McGillis
Jillson/Morrison/Moran-O'donnell
We absolutely grab our ankles in a deal like that. 2 picks and three prospects for Connolly and Zhitnik. No freakin' way IMO.
We absolutely grab our ankles in a deal like that. 2 picks and three prospects for Connolly and Zhitnik. No freakin' way IMO.
I guess my point is if Hilbert isn't able to fit into the game plan this year, and Zinojev is right behind him, why keep him? Huml and Samuelsson have yet to prove anything, but Buffalo would want a young winger back. Take out the 3rd and a prospect and what have you got?
2nd, Hilbert, and Jurcina, Morrison, or Jillson for a young semi proven(read: more proven w/more potential than anything we have right now) center, and a veteran #2-3 defenseman with at least 6-7 years left. I think that would be lopsided on our side.
Connolly is nearly the same age as our guys, and he already has 3-4 years in the NHL. Okay, last year was bad, but so were his circumstances. I would trade 2 prospects for a proven player who still has more potential than the either of the prospects any day. What is the problem?
Break it down:
Connolly for Hilbert, Huml or Samuellson, and a 2nd(we have two don't we)
Zhitnik for 3rd and defensive prospect
What would you offer them instead, or if you are Buffalo, what do you ask for instead?
Bruwinz37 09-26-2003, 10:37 AM I guess my point is if Hilbert isn't able to fit into the game plan this year, and Zinojev is right behind him, why keep him? Huml and Samuelsson have yet to prove anything, but Buffalo would want a young winger back. Take out the 3rd and a prospect and what have you got?
2nd, Hilbert, and Jurcina, Morrison, or Jillson for a young semi proven(read: more proven w/more potential than anything we have right now) center, and a veteran #2-3 defenseman with at least 6-7 years left. I think that would be lopsided on our side.
Connolly is nearly the same age as our guys, and he already has 3-4 years in the NHL. Okay, last year was bad, but so were his circumstances. I would trade 2 prospects for a proven player who still has more potential than the either of the prospects any day. What is the problem?
Well if you take out the Huml or Samuelsson and one of the picks it is different, but to offer Hilbert, Huml, 2nd, 3rd and Jurcina is way too much.
Well if you take out the Huml or Samuelsson and one of the picks it is different, but to offer Hilbert, Huml, 2nd, 3rd and Jurcina is way too much.
Why is it too much?
Do you think Hilbert (who has yet to prove he can make it, and even if he did would probably not produce more than Connolly already has), Huml or Samuellson (neither of which is more highly touted than Hilbert), and a 2nd(which we have two of) is more valuable than Connolly?
The way I figure it is this. Connolly is no older than Hilbert or Huml, and is one year older than Samuellson, yet he has played 4 full seasons in the NHL. If they are the same age, they have the same ammount of years to get better, but one is already 4 years ahead....is he not worth more? He sure has proven more with a 45 pt. season on a team that had nearly no offense star outside of Satan for the last few years.
How about Zhitnik? He has been Buffalo's #1 defenseman for the last how long? Granted he wouldn't be a #1 on Colorado or Detroit, but he would be at least a #2 or #3 on our team. He is only 30. Is that not worth a prospect and a 3rd?
Bruwinz37 09-26-2003, 11:00 AM Why is it too much?
Do you think Hilbert (who has yet to prove he can make it, and even if he did would probably not produce more than Connolly already has), Huml or Samuellson (neither of which is more highly touted than Hilbert), and a 2nd(which we have two of) is more valuable than Connolly?
The way I figure it is this. Connolly is no older than Hilbert or Huml, and is one year older than Samuellson, yet he has played 4 full seasons in the NHL. If they are the same age, they have the same ammount of years to get better, but one is already 4 years ahead....is he not worth more? He sure has proven more with a 45 pt. season on a team that had nearly no offense star outside of Satan for the last few years.
How about Zhitnik? He has been Buffalo's #1 defenseman for the last how long? Granted he wouldn't be a #1 on Colorado or Detroit, but he would be at least a #2 or #3 on our team. He is only 30. Is that not worth a prospect and a 3rd?
You overrate Tim Connolly. The guy has 46 goals in 325 NHL games. He is never going to make it to that All Star level. Connolly has not shown any type of upward trend either...which is concerning. Would I give up Hilbert and a pick for him, yes...Hilbert and Huml....dont think so...certainly not Hilbert and Samuelsson.
As for Zhitnik, he is a player I would like. He is not a true #1 by any means, he is 31 in three weeks, and no I would not trade Jurcina, Morrisson or Jillson and a pick for him. Not for a stop-gap player who will not take us over the top. I want to see what these kids can do. There is a chance that all three are solid NHL blue liners and will be ready to hit their prime at around the same time. I dont want to give up any of them.
MeisterBruinmaker 09-26-2003, 11:11 AM How about this?
Bos:
Zhitnik
Connolly
Buf:
2nd(LA, I'd imagine with their injury history that it will be higher than ours)
3rd
Hilbert
one of Huml, or Samuellson
one of Jurcina, Morrison, Stuart, or Jillson
Samsonov-Thornton-Murray
Knuble-Connolly-Lapointe
Ax-Rolston-Zinojev
Zhitnik-Gill
Boynton-McGillis
Jillson/Morrison/Moran-O'donnell
First, I completely agree about Connolly. He has amazing hands and instincts. The fact that he's labored without improvement and that BUF has a glut at center makes him a perfect target. I just think that he will be pretty expensive.
With the Sabres being on the rebound with a new owner and renewed enthusiasm, I don't seeing them wanting to deal Zhitnik or his contract. He's a stalwart and a needed veteran. I may be wrong, I think a deal could be worked out without him being in the equation. Besides, I would really hate to see the B's obtain yet another short term asset. Not only have they failed to make the most of them in the last 3 years, but at this point half the roster is going to "expire" next summer.
My ultimate deal would be Hilbert and a 2nd for Connolly. Of all the prospects the B's have, Hilbie could be let go. The rest - I think Huml has a great chance at being a real point producer, Samuelsson has too much character, Jurcina & Stuart no way, and Morrisonn has the skating and mobility we need, and Jillson is already figuring into the plans now that at least 1-2 of McGillis, Moran and O'Donnell will be gone next summer.
Better yet, if we could get away with just sending picks, like a 2nd & 3rd, that would be fantastic. But that's highly unlikely because there are enough teams out there who would be happy to offer more. Not only that, but inter-division trades aren't too common. Still, a young center who could be around for the next 3-4 years would be great. With Bergeron in the picture, the B's would have ample competition at the spot, and they could have the depth to fill out the roster with 3 solid lines.
You overrate Tim Connolly. The guy has 46 goals in 325 NHL games. He is never going to make it to that All Star level. Connolly has not shown any type of upward trend either...which is concerning. Would I give up Hilbert and a pick for him, yes...Hilbert and Huml....dont think so...certainly not Hilbert and Samuelsson.
As for Zhitnik, he is a player I would like. He is not a true #1 by any means, he is 31 in three weeks, and no I would not trade Jurcina, Morrisson or Jillson and a pick for him. Not for a stop-gap player who will not take us over the top. I want to see what these kids can do. There is a chance that all three are solid NHL blue liners and will be ready to hit their prime at around the same time. I dont want to give up any of them.
First, of course he has shown an upward trend. Year one:34 pts, Year two:41 pts, Year 3:45 pts, Year 4:....okay, there is a dip, 25pts. I think we can give him a poor year. Also, his goals are not so much in question because he is a center. If he were to play the second line position, with his passing, and stickhandling skills, I would be more concerned with his assits and the goals of his wingers.
True, he will never be an Allstar, but who expects him to be? I see a 15-20 goal, 45 - 55 assist player(depending on his linemates), and can you ask more from a 2nd line center?
If you want to wait to see what our defensive prospects turn out to be, that is understandable. If Zhitnik were 35-36, I'd say no trade, but he still has some useful years left.
Bruwinz37 09-26-2003, 11:36 AM First, of course he has shown an upward trend. Year one:34 pts, Year two:41 pts, Year 3:45 pts, Year 4:....okay, there is a dip, 25pts. I think we can give him a poor year. Also, his goals are not so much in question because he is a center. If he were to play the second line position, with his passing, and stickhandling skills, I would be more concerned with his assits and the goals of his wingers.
True, he will never be an Allstar, but who expects him to be? I see a 15-20 goal, 45 - 55 assist player(depending on his linemates), and can you ask more from a 2nd line center?
If you want to wait to see what our defensive prospects turn out to be, that is understandable. If Zhitnik were 35-36, I'd say no trade, but he still has some useful years left.
I dont give up two prospects and a pick for a guy who is going to top out at 15-20 goals. I would gladly do Hilbert and a second for him, but no way I though in Huml.
As far as his trending, a couple years around the same point total and then a major dip in what should have been a break out type year is a poor trend, and if I was Buffalo I would be very concerned about it.
Boston Bruno 09-26-2003, 11:36 AM Espen Knutsen - a smallish Jacket who could be expendable.
Others???
Here is a guy who is needing a scenery change. Knutsen is still seen with his head hang low. He needs a change, and I have alot of faith in this guys ability. Nhl All Star untill his incident.. A shift to boston could do him wonders..
Probably discounted too..
Anyone read anything about his demeanor..
Mizral 09-26-2003, 02:09 PM Why not sign Cliff Ronning or Adam Oates and just get it over with, O'Connell?
Better yet, if you need a centre now, why trade Stumpel you lumbering idiot!!!
Geez, what a maroon.
Bruwinz37 09-26-2003, 02:13 PM Why not sign Cliff Ronning or Adam Oates and just get it over with, O'Connell?
Better yet, if you need a centre now, why trade Stumpel you lumbering idiot!!!
Geez, what a maroon.
Because Stumpel's play (and often indifference) didnt warrant his paycheck. IMO he was just one of the guys who wasnt part of the way will play from now on with Sullivan.
MeisterBruinmaker 09-26-2003, 02:32 PM Why not sign Cliff Ronning or Adam Oates and just get it over with, O'Connell?
Better yet, if you need a centre now, why trade Stumpel you lumbering idiot!!!
Geez, what a maroon.Regarding Stumpel, that is a legit question. While I always deemed Stumps as part of the problem -- believing he was too dependent on his one skill (playmaking) and he didn't offer much else (especially work ethic) -- it can be viewed as a choice between the least worst options. At this point, while I generally agree with Bruwinz20, I would have rather had Stumpel than the current choices. I have never had much faith in O'Connell's strategy of letting Hilbert & Zinovjev battle it out for the #2 spot. Never. I thought he might acquire someone else who could perhaps add some leadership or work ethic, but nothing doing.
During it all, I've believed that Rolston would have to move up, and someone would have to grab the #3 spot. I've just prayed that it wasn't going to be Donato. Still, that strategy doesn't necessarily strengthen the roster unless the second line anchored by Rolston is credible and reliable and the third line center overachieves. Depending on those unknowns isn't good planning.
To me, the best option was Nieuwendyk, but if the B's were at all interested, then apparently Boston's horrid playoff record and win-second reputation did that one in. Oates would be acceptable to many posters here, but it seems like the rift between management after he and Tocchet criticized management for not doing enough to compete will always be a barrier. Ronning would make a good 3rd line center though. He has enough offensive instincts to contribute and he can be a sparkplug. Not the best option, but maybe better than what we have.
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