All Time NFL Draft

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FlyersHomer DM03
07-02-2005, 01:46 PM
Rules
-Teams: I'm gonna say 14 teams for now, give or take, probably no more than 16
-Positions: (24) Starters (11 offense, 11 defense, Punter, Kicker)
-ANY PLAYER who played NFL football, living or dead

-Coach: This is something new I'd like to try, have the teams draft coaches. The coach order will be reverse the opening round order, so...in the second round, along with a player, teams shall also select a coach...

-Time Limit: I'm not gonna set an exact time limit, I know most everyone has a job, and some of us have lives (however i'm not one of those fortunate people...), but please try to check back here frequently, know when you're gonna pick, and if you're not gonna be in town, PM me a list of some players you want...also PM the next person when you make your pick

GMs:
Green Bay Packers- Dan McGillis 03, Coach George Halas
Pittsburgh Steelers- Handsome B. Wonderful, Coach Chuck Noll
Baltimore Ravens- HotSizzle, Coach Don Shula
Atlanta Falcons- Chris_Dub, Coach John Madden
Minnesota Vikings- JCD, Coach Bud Grant
New England Patriots- sarge88, Coach Bill Parcells
Cleveland Browns- Unholy Diver, Coach Jimmy Johnson
Miami Dolphins- Lou Is God, Coach Paul Brown
Washington Redskins- Joe1-Lou2, Coach Joe Gibbs
Indianapolis Colts- Hercules Rockefeller, Coach Tom Landry
Houston Oilers- Bobbsktball1, Coach Bill Walsh
Oakland Raiders- GB, Coach John Gruden
New York Jets- GM- West19, Coach Vince Lombardi
Philadelphia Saints- G.K.J, Coach Bill Bellichek

Draft Order
Round 1
1. Oakland Raiders-GB- QB Johnny Unitas
2. New England Patriots-sarge88- QB Joe Montana
3. Cleveland Browns-UnholyDiver- RB Jim Brown
4. Atlanta Falcons-chris_dub- RB Walter Payton
5. Minnesota Vikings-JCD- QB Dan Marino
6. Philadelphia Saints-go kim johnsson- RB Emmitt Smith
7. Green Bay packers- Dan McGillis 03- WR Jerry Rice
8. Houston Oilers- Bobbsktball1- RB Barry Sanders
9. Miami Dolphins- Lou Is God- LB Lawrence Taylor
10. Washington Redskins- Joe1-Lou2- DT Bob Lilly
11. Baltimore Ravens- HotSizzle- QB John Elway
12. Indianapolis Colts- Hercules Rockefeller- LB Dick Butkus
13. Pittsburgh Steelers- Handsome B. Wonderful- QB Terry Bradshaw
14. New York jets- West19- CB Deion Sanders

Round 2--coach round, select a player and coach
15. New York jets- West19- QB Joe Namath
16. Pittsburgh Steelers- Handsome B. Wonderful- CB Mel Blount
17. Indianapolis Colts- Hercules Rockefeller- RB Gale Sayers
18. Baltimore Ravens- HotSizzle- DT "Mean" Joe Greene
19. Washington Redskins- Joe1-Lou2- OT Anthony Munoz
20. Miami Dolphins- Lou Is God- DE Deacon Jones
21. Houston Oilers- Bobbsktball1- WR Don Hutson
22. Green Bay packers- Dan McGillis 03- LB Ray Nitschke
23. Philadelphia Saints- go kim johnsson- LB Jack Lambert
24. Minnesota Vikings-JCD- DE Reggie White
25. Atlanta Falcons-chris_dub- DE Bruce Smith
26. Cleveland Browns-UnholyDiver- LB Jack Ham
27. New England Patriots-sarge88- OG John Hannah
28. Oakland Raiders-GB- G Russ Grimm

Round 3
29. Oakland Raiders-GB- C Mike Webster
30. New England Patriots-sarge88- FS Ronnie Lott
31. Cleveland Browns-UnholyDiver- LB Mike Singletary
32. Atlanta Falcons-chris_dub- CB Emlen Tunnell
33. Minnesota Vikings-JCD- CB Dick "Night Train" Lane
34. Philadelphia Saints- go kim johnsson- WR Lance Alworth
35. Green Bay packers- Dan McGillis 03- DE Gino Marchetti
36. Houston Oilers- Bobbsktball1- QB Otto Graham
37. Miami Dolphins- Lou Is God- RB OJ Simpson
38. Washington Redskins- Joe1-Lou2- DT Merlin Olsen
39. Baltimore Ravens- HotSizzle- WR Steve Largeant
40. Indianapolis Colts- Hercules Rockefeller- OT Jim Parker
41. Pittsburgh Steelers- Handsome B. Wonderful- RB Tony Dorsett
42. New York jets- West19- LB Sam Huff

Round 4
43. New York jets- West19- DE Jack Youngblood
44. Pittsburgh Steelers- Handsome B. Wonderful- DT Alan Page
45. Indianapolis Colts- Hercules Rockefeller- DT Randy White
46. Baltimore Ravens- Hot Sizzle- OG Gene Upshaw
47. Washington Redskins- Joe1-Lou2- QB Sammy Baugh
48. Miami Dolphins- Lou Is God- OT Forrest Gregg
49. Houston Oilers- Bobbsktball1- LB Willie Lanier
50. Green Bay Packers- Dan McGillis 03- FS Larry Wilson
51. Philadelphia Saints- Go kim johnsson- CB Rod Woodson
52. Minnesota Vikings- JCD- OT Art Shell
53. Atlanta Falcons- Chris_dub- QB Steve Young
54. Cleveland Browns- Unholy Diver- RB Eric Dickerson
55. New England Patriots- sarge88- RB Earl Campbell
56. Oakland Raiders- GB- RB LaDanian Tomlinson

Round 5
57. Oakland Raiders- GB- FB Alan Ameche
58. New England Patriots- sarge88- LB Ted Hendricks
59. Cleveland Browns- Unholy Diver- OT Jackie Slater
60. Atlanta Falcons- Chris_dub- WR Cris Carter
61. Minnesota Vikings- JCD- FS Paul Krause
62. Philadelphia Saints- Go kim johnsson- WR Fred Biletnikoff
63. Green Bay Packers- Dan McGillis 03- CB Herb Adderley
64. Houston Oilers- Bobbsktball1- CB Willie Brown
65. Miami Dolphins- Lou Is God- WR Raymond Berry
66. Washington Redskins- Joe1-Lou2- LB Ray Lewis
67. Baltimore Ravens- Hot Sizzle- WR Randy Moss
68. Indianapolis Colts-Hercules Rockefeller- WR Marvin Harrison
69. Pittsburgh Steelers- Hansome B. Wonderful-WR Lynn Swann
70. New York jets- West19- RB Marcus Allen

Round 6
71. New York Jets-West19- WR Tim Brown
72. Pittsburgh Steelers- Handsome B. Wonderful-LB Derrick Thomas
73. Indianapolis Colts- Hercules Rockefeller- LB Bobby Bell
74. Baltimore Ravens-HotSizzle- CB Darrell Green
75. Washington Redskins- Joe1-Lou2- CB Mike Haynes
76. Miami Dolphins- Lou Is God- LB Joe Schmidt
77. Houston Oilers- Bobbsktball1- FB/LB Bronko Nagurski
78. Green Bay Packers- DanMcGillis03- OT Roosevelt Brown
79. Philadelphia Saints-Go kim johnsson- OT Jonathan Ogden
80. Minnesota Vikings- JCD- DE Chris Doleman
81. Atlanta Falcons-chris_dub- DT William "Refridgerator" Perry
82. Cleveland Browns- UnholyDiver- C Dermontti Dawson
83. New England Patriots-sarge88- C Dwight Stephenson
84. Oakland Raiders-GB- DT Buck Buchannan

Round 7
85. Oakland Raiders-GB- WR Terrell Owens
86. New England Patriots-sarge88- DE Howie Long
87. Cleveland Browns- UnholyDiver- OG Larry Little
88. Atlanta Falcons-chris_dub- OLB Otis Wilson
89. Minnesota Vikings- JCD- DT John Randle
90. Philadelphia Saints- Go Kim JOhnsson- DT Dan Hampton
91. Green Bay Packers- Dan McGillis 03- QB Brett Favre
92. Houston Oilers- Bobbsktball1- DE Willie Davis
93. Miami Dolphins- Lou Is God- QB Bobby Layne
94. Washington Redskins- Joe1-Lou2- OG Larry Allen
95. Baltiomre Ravens- Hotsizzle- CB Lem Barney
96. Indianapolis Colts- Hercules Rockefeller- C Mel Hein
97. Pittsburgh Steelers- Handsome B Wonderful- DE Ernie Stautner
98. New York Jets- West19- RB Jim Taylor

Round 8
99. New York Jets- West19- TE Ozzie Newsome
100. Pittsburg Steelers- Handsone B. Wonderful- C/OLB Chuck Bednarik
101. Indianapolis Colts- Hercules Rockefeller- S Jack Christiansen
102. Baltimore Ravens-Hotsizzle- TE Kellen Winslow
103. Washington Redskins- Joe1-Lou2- S Ken Houston
104. Miami Dolphins- Lou Is God- S Steve Atwater
105. Houston Oilers- Bobbsktball1- WR Charley Taylor
106. Green Bay Packers- Dan McGillis 03- DE Carl Eller
107. Philadelphia Saints- Go kim johnsson- C Jim Otto
108. Minnesota Vikings- JCD- CB Aeneas Williams
109. Atlanta Falcons- chris_dub- C Dave Rimington
110. Cleveland Browns- Unholy Diver- QB Dan Fouts
111. New England Patriots- sarge88- WR James Lofton
112. Oakland Raiders-GB- DE Micheal Strahan

Round 9
113. Oakland Raiders-GB- DT Warren Sapp
114. New England Patriots- sarge88- DT Fred Smerlas
115. Cleveland Browns- WR Andre Reed
116. Atlanta Falcons- chris_dub- OT Orlando Pace
117. Minnesota Vikings- JCD- Shannon Sharpe
118. Philadelphia Saints- go kim johnsson - John Stallworth
119. Green Bay Packers- FlyersHomer DM03- Mel Renfro
120. Houston Oilers- Bobbsktball1
121. Miami Dolphins- Lou is God - Jim Langer
122. Washington Redskins- - Junior Sneau
123. Baltimore Ravens
124. Indianapolis Colts
125. Pittsburgh Steelers
126. New York Jets


Players Taken
QB
Johnny Unitas
Joe Montana
Dan Marino
John Elway
Terry Bradshaw
Joe Namath
Otto Graham
Sammy Baugh
Steve Young
Brett Favre
Bobby Layne
Dan Fouts

RB
Jim Brown
Walter Payton
Emmitt Smith
Barry Sanders
Gale Sayers
OJ Simpson
Tony Dorsett
Earl Campbell
Eric Dickerson
LaDanian Tomlinson
Marcus Allen
Jim Taylor

FB
Alan Ameche
Bronko Nagurski *(LB)

WR
Jerry Rice
Don Hutson
Lance Alworth
Steve Largeant
Cris Carter
Fred Biletnikoff
Raymond Berry
Randy Moss
Marvin Harrison
Tim Brown
Lynn Swann
Terrel Owens
Charley Taylor
James Lofton
Andre Reed
John Stallworth

TE
Ozzie Newsome
Kellen Winslow
Shannon Sharpe

OT
Anthony Munoz
Jim Parker
Forrest Gregg
Art Shell
Jackie Slater
Roosevelt Brown
Jonathan Ogden
Orlando Pace

OG
John Hannah
Russ Grimm
Gene Upshaw
Larry Little
Larry Allen

C
Mike Webster
Dermontti Dawson
Dwight Stephenson
Mel Hein* (OLB)
Chuck Bednarik* (OLB)
Jim Otto
Dave Rimington
Jim Langer

DE
Deacon Jones
Reggie White
Bruce Smith
Gino Marchetti
Jack Youngblood
Chris Doleman
Willie Davis
Carl Eller
Micheal Strahan

DT
Bob Lilly
Joe Greene
Merlin Olsen
Alan Page
Randy White
William Perry
Buck Buchannan
John Randle
Dan Hampton
Ernie Stautner
Fred Smerlas
Warren Sapp
Junior Sneau

ILB
Dick Butkus
Ray Nitschke
Jack Lambert
Mike Singletary
Sam Huff
Willie Lanier
Ray Lewis
Joe Schmidt

OLB
Lawrence Taylor
Jack Ham
Bobby Bell
Derrick Thomas
Otis Wilson
Ted Hendricks

CB
Deion Sanders
Mel Blount
Emlen Tunnell
"Night Train" Lane
Rod Woodson
Herb Adderley
Willie Brown
Darrell Green
Mike Haynes
Lem Barney
Aeneas Williams

S
Ronnie Lott
Larry Wilson
Paul Krause
Jack Christiansen
Ken Houston
Steve Atwater

Big McLargehuge
07-02-2005, 01:52 PM
I'm game.

Pittsburgh Steelers

chris_dub
07-02-2005, 03:24 PM
Give me the Falcons

Detox
07-02-2005, 03:44 PM
Im down: Ravens

sarge88
07-03-2005, 05:51 PM
I'd like the Patriots.

Unholy Diver
07-03-2005, 06:05 PM
Cleveland Browns please

Ronnie Bass
07-03-2005, 06:14 PM
Me and my brother (Joe1-Lou2) are in as the Dolphins and Redskins.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-03-2005, 06:21 PM
9 teams taken i'm gonna say about 5 teams left, and then i'll randomize a draft order and we'll get it going

Gibsons Finest
07-03-2005, 11:16 PM
I don't know alot about NFL history, but then again, I don't know alot about MLB history, either, and even though I made some bad picks early, I think I did decently in that draft. That said, I'm game, as the Indianapolis Colts.

gretzky1545
07-03-2005, 11:45 PM
i'm in as the houston oilers.

GB
07-04-2005, 07:33 AM
I'll be in as the Raiders

Big McLargehuge
07-04-2005, 11:19 AM
Cleveland Browns please


I don't know you. :madfire:

Unholy Diver
07-04-2005, 11:51 AM
I don't know you. :madfire:
well the Steelers and Ravens were gone, and I do live in Ohio now....

Big McLargehuge
07-04-2005, 12:13 PM
well the Steelers and Ravens were gone, and I do live in Ohio now....

There's no excuse Darth Diver, you've crossed into the dark side and there's no coming back.

BLASPHEMER!

FlyersHomer DM03
07-04-2005, 04:14 PM
we've got 12, if we get a few more tonight i'll set up the draft order tomorrow morning and we can kick it off. I won't be by tonight, plans for the 4th...but PM me a list of guys you'd want for your first pick just in case you're not going to be by in the next few days. I work full days tues and wed so bear with me if i dont update right away like i have been all weekend

GKJ
07-04-2005, 10:39 PM
I'm up for it.


I'll be the Philadelphia Saints

West19
07-04-2005, 10:44 PM
GB, you got my team

I'll go with the jets

FlyersHomer DM03
07-04-2005, 11:08 PM
Alright I did the draft order at random, the Oakland Raiders are on the clock

First round--pick a player
Second round--pick a player AND a coach...in case anyone missed that and/or got confused

GB
07-05-2005, 04:40 AM
GB, you got my team

I'll go with the jets
Sorry about that, but someone had already taken the Packers :madfire:

GB
07-05-2005, 04:43 AM
OK here's the 1st overall pick:
The Oakland Raiders select from Louisville, QB John Constantine Unitas.

Gibsons Finest
07-05-2005, 04:45 AM
OK here's the 1st overall pick:
The Oakland Raiders select from Louisville, QB John Constantine Unitas.

Damn! I know I'm low, very low, but it seems so many football fans underrate Johnny U, and go for the sexier names in Montana and Elway, and I was really hoping the best QB ever would actually fall to me. Obviously not, and I must say, very nice pick.

GB
07-05-2005, 05:00 AM
Damn! I know I'm low, very low, but it seems so many football fans underrate Johnny U, and go for the sexier names in Montana and Elway, and I was really hoping the best QB ever would actually fall to me. Obviously not, and I must say, very nice pick.
Thanks. I was startled when I found out I was picking first (I'm not a morning person), so it took me a little while to choose between Montana and Unitas before settling on Unitas.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-05-2005, 11:32 AM
Damn! I know I'm low, very low, but it seems so many football fans underrate Johnny U, and go for the sexier names in Montana and Elway, and I was really hoping the best QB ever would actually fall to me. Obviously not, and I must say, very nice pick.

definitely a no brainer, in my eyes Johnny U's the best QB ever...revolutionized passing offenses, the two minute drill, nah by far the best QB, good pick

sarge88
07-05-2005, 02:03 PM
The N.E. Patriots select Joe Montana.

sarge88
07-05-2005, 02:58 PM
How specific do we need to be about offensive linemen?
Can we just draft 2 guards and 2 tackles or do we need to draft left and right guards and tackles?

FlyersHomer DM03
07-05-2005, 09:59 PM
How specific do we need to be about offensive linemen?
Can we just draft 2 guards and 2 tackles or do we need to draft left and right guards and tackles?

doesnt matter
guards and tackles are fine for either position...most o-linemen end up and different positions on the line througout their career...

not giving away your next pick are you?

Unholy Diver
07-05-2005, 10:26 PM
The Cleveland Browns are thrilled to bring one of their own home, the man that hit a hole faster than he hit his wife

FB - Jim Brown

Ric Flair
07-05-2005, 10:28 PM
Cleveland Browns please

First you start listening to Rush and now this??? Next you'll be getting the trailer park mongos dvd collection. You're dead to me.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-05-2005, 10:29 PM
The Cleveland Browns are thrilled to bring one of their own home, the man that hit a hole faster than he hit his wife

RB - Jim Brown

damn, but a nice pick, he was on my team the last time i did this, I took him first overall...

all the 12 and 14 game seasons Jim Brown had in his short career, if he played 16-game seasons he would've hit 2,000 yards several times...let alone who knows what would happen if he wouldn't have retired in his prime

Unholy Diver
07-05-2005, 10:31 PM
damn, but a nice pick, he was on my team the last time i did this, I took him first overall...

all the 12 and 14 game seasons Jim Brown had in his short career, if he played 16-game seasons he would've hit 2,000 yards several times...let alone who knows what would happen if he wouldn't have retired in his prime
yeah I was shocked to see him still available at this point, he was a monster

chris_dub
07-06-2005, 01:16 AM
Atlanta selects RB Walter Payton

JCD
07-06-2005, 10:02 AM
Vikings select Dan Marino.

GKJ
07-06-2005, 10:13 AM
I will take the NFL's all time leading rusher and long time adversary Emmitt Smith

FlyersHomer DM03
07-06-2005, 12:40 PM
this was a hard pick...had it down to three players, the two i didn't pick i probably won't see at my next pick, but do to, in my opinion, lack of great recievers...

WR-Jerry Rice

Ronnie Bass
07-07-2005, 05:32 PM
Does Bobbsktball1 know he 's up? Did you pm him Dan?

ObeySteve
07-07-2005, 05:45 PM
Vikings select Dan Marino.

Finally someone understands that whether or not you have a Super Bowl ring does not make or break a player. If a player is dominant, he is dominant- it's not his fault the team put around him wasn't good enough.

Oh, and GKJ- not only do I think you took Smith way too early, but I also plan to inform the entire Eagles community of your immediate excommunication.

ObeySteve
07-07-2005, 05:46 PM
this was a hard pick...had it down to three players, the two i didn't pick i probably won't see at my next pick, but do to, in my opinion, lack of great recievers...

WR-Jerry Rice

You made the right choice. Outside of Jim Brown, I dont think any offensive player dominated their position more than Rice.

gretzky1545
07-07-2005, 08:53 PM
i apologize for taking so long, he did PM me, and i just forgot. I'll make sure it wont happen again. I'll have my pick up in no longer than 5 minutes.

so many greats to choose from, but i'll have to go with the most entertaining one.... barry sanders RB

Ronnie Bass
07-07-2005, 09:21 PM
The Miami Dolphins are proud to select Lawrence Taylor, LB.

Taylor21
07-07-2005, 09:56 PM
Unfortunately the Washington Redskins take Bob Lilly. Yuck.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-07-2005, 10:17 PM
You made the right choice. Outside of Jim Brown, I dont think any offensive player dominated their position more than Rice.

I had it down to Rice, Barry Sanders and LT...the two I didn't pick were picked right after...Barry's elusive but isn't the best guy for short yardage...I had almost planned on taking LT when the order came out but I couldnt pass up Rice who probably leaves the game as one of the greatest players ever...

Detox
07-07-2005, 11:59 PM
Debated this for a bit between a couple of guys and hopefully one falls back to me but for my first pick:
The Baltimore Ravens select QB John Elway

Gibsons Finest
07-08-2005, 01:57 AM
We're tempted to take a QB, but there's so many greats available, so the Indianapolis Colts are proud to select MLB Dick Butkus.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-08-2005, 11:56 AM
This is how it's going to work for the coach round...cause I know we're going to have this conflict, people can only get picked one time, example:

-If Mike Ditka 'the coach' is picked, Mike Ditka 'the player' is ineligible...this will probably hold true for Dan Reeves too...those are the only two examples I can think of, I know Lombardi, Landry and Madden had short careers in the 50s, but are no threat to be selected as players,

Steve Latin*
07-08-2005, 02:06 PM
Handsome, as a Steelers fan I'm going to be very disappointed if you don't pick Bradshaw or Bloundt :)

Seriously, seeing as CB's are at such a premium these days, I'm surprised Bloundt and Sanders are still on the board. Even in today's NFL, those guys would dominate and shut-down any WR out there.

JCD
07-08-2005, 03:52 PM
Shut-down CBs are always at a premium, but Moss as a rookie went up against Sanders and beat him like a rented mule. While Prime Time wasn't in peak form, he was still regarded as an elite gamebreaking talent.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-08-2005, 08:21 PM
If H.B.W. doesnt pick by 2:00 am tonight (sat. morning)...jets are on the clock, I most likely wont be able to get on until later tomorrow afternoon, work all day (yes!)

Big McLargehuge
07-09-2005, 12:04 AM
QB Terry Bradshaw

When the game was meaningless Bradshaw was a very average QB. When the game was on the line Bradshaw transformed into some sort of infallible demi-God.

A very, very, very tough pick based on stats...but four rings don't lie. The man was as clutch as any player ever.

West19
07-09-2005, 01:06 PM
To end the first round the New York Jets select Deion Sanders. One of the most exciting players to ever play the game and a player that opposing teams had to change their game around

Ronnie Bass
07-09-2005, 01:07 PM
To end the first round the New York Jets select Deion Sanders. One of the most exciting players to ever play the game and a player that opposing teams had to change their game around
If I'm correct, I think you pick again.

Sturminator
07-09-2005, 01:49 PM
To end the first round the New York Jets select Deion Sanders. One of the most exciting players to ever play the game and a player that opposing teams had to change their game around
He is a great player, but I'm thinking there are at least two DBs I'd take over Sanders.

West19
07-09-2005, 02:01 PM
If I'm correct, I think you pick again.

yep, i'm on it.

With the first pick int he second round the New York Jets select one of their own...Broadway Joe Namath and the Jets take Vince Lombardi as their coach

West19
07-09-2005, 02:10 PM
He is a great player, but I'm thinking there are at least two DBs I'd take over Sanders.

It's close, i do think there are a couple DB's up there with deion but i took a chance because deion is probobly better known the some of the others and i didnt think he'd be around until my next pick

Ronnie Bass
07-09-2005, 03:20 PM
BTW, once the Tour de France is over with, I'll make this a sticky and unsticky the one for the Tour.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-09-2005, 07:12 PM
It's close, i do think there are a couple DB's up there with deion but i took a chance because deion is probobly better known the some of the others and i didnt think he'd be around until my next pick

In this day and age of "no touching at all", deion is probably the best fit, given his athletic ability...also you can't take away his ability to run back punts and kicks...There are a few elite all-time cornerbacks who share the top spot with Deion, but Deion can always make a great case for being the best of the bunch...

also, I FORGOT TO MENTION THIS...trades are allowed...i'll put up an extended draft order when i stop being lazy...

Big McLargehuge
07-09-2005, 11:58 PM
yep, i'm on it.

With the first pick int he second round the New York Jets select one of their own...Broadway Joe Namath and the Jets take Vince Lombardi as their coach

Hell of a coach and a piece of crap at QB.

Completely dumbfounded by that pick of Namath. One game make not a career because he sure as hell had an average one.

Anyways...this is continuing the hometown flavor, but it's honestly not intentional.

CB Mel Blount & Coach Chuck Noll

Blount is, IMO, the best corner in league history(very, very, very closely followed by another nameless player) and Noll is the only coach to have four Super Bowl rings. Noll single handedly turned a joke of a franchise into a dynasty in just a couple seasons. Everyone has to take note the Steelers won 3 more Super Bowls under Noll than they had playoff wins in their 36 year history before his hiring.

ObeySteve
07-10-2005, 12:01 AM
How did Noll turn a joke into a dynasty if half the starters end up being Hall of Famers? It's either great coaching or a loaded talent pool (signs point much more to the latter), you can't have it both ways.

Big McLargehuge
07-10-2005, 12:31 AM
Or it's the fact that Noll found all that talent.

The guy had the best eye for talent ever, at least in the 70s. Look at some of his drafts. Especially 1974.

It's not like the guy inherited a bunch of Hall-of-Famers. He made them.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-10-2005, 12:41 AM
Or it's the fact that Noll found all that talent.

The guy had the best eye for talent ever, at least in the 70s. Look at some of his drafts. Especially 1974.

It's not like the guy inherited a bunch of Hall-of-Famers. He made them.


Yeah, I'm not gonna argue against Noll, four super bowl rings is a good resume...Noll didn't make my short list of coaches I was going to pick, but that's just me...

the namath pick...I had 14 QB's ranked, Namath nowhere to be found...Namath goes from a first-ballot HOF to a borderline HOF without the "guarantee"

Ronnie Bass
07-10-2005, 12:52 AM
Or it's the fact that Noll found all that talent.

The guy had the best eye for talent ever, at least in the 70s. Look at some of his drafts. Especially 1974.

It's not like the guy inherited a bunch of Hall-of-Famers. He made them.
No doubt, I always thought he was a great coach also. He molded a defense that could be arguably the best of all time.

Dropkick Alex
07-10-2005, 01:07 AM
There's no excuse Darth Diver, you've crossed into the dark side and there's no coming back.

BLASPHEMER!

We got a Steeler fan I see....GO BROWNIES!

Detox
07-10-2005, 01:32 AM
Every team needs a great RB and seeing how the other player I had in mind at this point as already been selected (Butkus), the Baltimore Ravens select:

RB Gale Sayers

And the mastermind behind the Ravens (besides myself of course ;) ):
All-time great coach Tom Landry

Gibsons Finest
07-10-2005, 02:01 AM
Every team needs a great RB and seeing how the other player I had in mind at this point as already been selected (Butkus), the Baltimore Ravens select:

RB Gale Sayers

And the mastermind behind the Ravens (besides myself of course ;) ):
All-time great coach Tom Landry

Whoa, you're a pick early there, buddy, unless I'm mistaken and we came up with like a 4-hour time limit or something.

To make matters worse, if I indeed get to make my picks and yours don't count, I'd take RB Gale Sayers and coach Tom Landry.

Sorry bro. :)

Sturminator
07-10-2005, 02:19 AM
In this day and age of "no touching at all", deion is probably the best fit, given his athletic ability...also you can't take away his ability to run back punts and kicks...There are a few elite all-time cornerbacks who share the top spot with Deion, but Deion can always make a great case for being the best of the bunch...

also, I FORGOT TO MENTION THIS...trades are allowed...i'll put up an extended draft order when i stop being lazy...
There is only one player ever to be an all-pro at every defensive backfield position.

"Free safety is too easy," this guy once said, and having seen him live, I tend to believe him.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-10-2005, 11:32 AM
Whoa, you're a pick early there, buddy, unless I'm mistaken and we came up with like a 4-hour time limit or something.

To make matters worse, if I indeed get to make my picks and yours don't count, I'd take RB Gale Sayers and coach Tom Landry.

Sorry bro. :)

nah no strict limit prior to 24 hours

so is that a pick for sayers and landry? i'm confused

Steve Latin*
07-10-2005, 01:26 PM
Hell of a coach and a piece of crap at QB.

Completely dumbfounded by that pick of Namath. One game make not a career because he sure as hell had an average one.

Anyways...this is continuing the hometown flavor, but it's honestly not intentional.

CB Mel Blount & Coach Chuck Noll

Blount is, IMO, the best corner in league history(very, very, very closely followed by another nameless player) and Noll is the only coach to have four Super Bowl rings. Noll single handedly turned a joke of a franchise into a dynasty in just a couple seasons. Everyone has to take note the Steelers won 3 more Super Bowls under Noll than they had playoff wins in their 36 year history before his hiring.
Great picks so far HBW...

and it looks like this is my 1,000th post. Only took me two years ;)

S L

Detox
07-10-2005, 02:29 PM
Whoa, you're a pick early there, buddy, unless I'm mistaken and we came up with like a 4-hour time limit or something.

To make matters worse, if I indeed get to make my picks and yours don't count, I'd take RB Gale Sayers and coach Tom Landry.

Sorry bro. :)
HAHAHA sorry my man, been kinda hectic around the apartment lately with my roomate getting married next weekend, traffic has been going through at a high rate and with that alot of intoxicants have been passed around and I jumped the gun a little, take those guys, your picks, its all good.

Detox
07-10-2005, 02:38 PM
Having to revise my picks a bit based on a sheer act of stupidity of my own, the Baltimore Ravens select DE Mean Joe Greene and Coach Don Shula.

Gibsons Finest
07-10-2005, 05:00 PM
nah no strict limit prior to 24 hours

so is that a pick for sayers and landry? i'm confused

Yup. I was just mentioning that it was unfortunate that both the guys he wanted were the guys I wanted before him. I was petrified that HBW would take either, or both, and I nearly snapped when I saw the picks, but then noticed HotSizzle made them, so it's all good.

GKJ
07-10-2005, 06:39 PM
We need to have some kind of time limit or it's going to take like 4 months to get this done.

Ronnie Bass
07-10-2005, 06:44 PM
We need to have some kind of time limit or it's going to take like 4 months to get this done.
My brother is next, maybe he never got a PM, but I'll let him know he's up.

Ronnie Bass
07-10-2005, 06:49 PM
BTW, the last time we did this the draft did take several months, four I believe.

So if anybody doesn't think they will be around for the whole draft, please let us know now while it's not to late to replace you.

Gibsons Finest
07-10-2005, 07:15 PM
BTW, the last time we did this the draft did take several months, four I believe.

So if anybody doesn't think they will be around for the whole draft, please let us know now while it's not to late to replace you.

I'll be away for like a weekend in August, and possibly this upcoming weekend(Thurdsay-Monday), but other than that, I should be around for the whole thing.

Taylor21
07-10-2005, 07:27 PM
For coach if I select Mike Ditka do I get him at tight end also?

As for position player since it is best to build from inside out the Washington Redskins again select by far the greatest offensive lineman ever Anthony Munoz.

If I get Mike Ditka as tight end and coach I choose him otherwise I select of course Joe Gibbs for coach.

Ronnie Bass
07-10-2005, 07:28 PM
The Dolphins select Deacon Jones, DE.

My head coach is Paul Brown.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-10-2005, 08:34 PM
This is how it's going to work for the coach round...cause I know we're going to have this conflict, people can only get picked one time, example:

-If Mike Ditka 'the coach' is picked, Mike Ditka 'the player' is ineligible...this will probably hold true for Dan Reeves too...those are the only two examples I can think of, I know Lombardi, Landry and Madden had short careers in the 50s, but are no threat to be selected as players,

^^^

also, make sure you PM the person after you

and please PM me a list of players if you're going to be gone for a long amount of time, even a long shift of work with your pick coming up

gretzky1545
07-11-2005, 03:36 AM
I'll take Don Hutson Wr and Coach Bill Walsh

FlyersHomer DM03
07-11-2005, 12:00 PM
I'll take Don Hutson Wr and Coach Bill Walsh

Was wondering how long Hutson would stay around...

after much deliberation, the Packers bring home one of their own, and select MLB Ray Nitschke

The Packers, ironically enough, will be coached by George Halas

GB
07-11-2005, 01:11 PM
How about adding an extra round so that we can select a KR/PR specalist per team, I think the Packers showed how important a good return man can be last season.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-11-2005, 01:44 PM
How about adding an extra round so that we can select a KR/PR specalist per team, I think the Packers showed how important a good return man can be last season.

possibly...it's a good idea but then teams who draft people like Deion Sanders already have their return man...

-I was considering axing the last two rounds--the kicker and punter rounds, because, who cares, only three hall of famers from those two positions, and it would take too long and everyone would prob. lose interest.

what does everyone else think

GB
07-11-2005, 02:20 PM
I think we should keep the last two rounds, the amount of games that are lost and won by a last second kick, I don't see how you could have a complete draft without a kicker.

JCD
07-11-2005, 02:31 PM
I think we can add them. Why not? What is 2 or 3 more rounds at this point?

We can leave the KR/PR as a Special Team player. For those who want to use a roster player for the role, they can just add a discretionary choice. Maybe a pass-rush specialist (guy like Jason Taylor who might not make the draft otherwise), a 3rd down back (if they have Jerome Bettis as their starter, why not Thurmen Thomas on passing downs?) or a pure coach's choice special teamer just for fun (I could get Moe Williams, Chris Walsh or quote-machine Leroy Hoard on the team).

Much the same for kickers. Might not be Hall of Famers, but we can roll through some of the who's who in the past. Or take guys for fun. Basically, I just want a chance to type 'Fiesty Fuad Reviez'...

FlyersHomer DM03
07-11-2005, 10:59 PM
Its just at this pace, 2 or 3 more rounds might mean 2 or 3 weeks, this draft is going good in spurts and then one person takes an entire 24 hours, and in the latter part of the draft im sure some people will lose interest, we'll play it by ear

GKJ
07-11-2005, 11:05 PM
I will take:


LB Jack Lambert

Coach Bill Bellichek

GB
07-12-2005, 04:26 AM
Its just at this pace, 2 or 3 more rounds might mean 2 or 3 weeks, this draft is going good in spurts and then one person takes an entire 24 hours, and in the latter part of the draft im sure some people will lose interest, we'll play it by ear
I think a time limit of 12 hours would be a good idea.

JCD
07-12-2005, 07:40 AM
Player: Reggie White

Coach: Bud Grant

GB
07-12-2005, 08:25 AM
Player: Reggie White

Coach: Bud Grant
Those who I was planning on taking. Bloody Vikings' fans.

JCD
07-12-2005, 08:48 AM
Those who I was planning on taking. Bloody Vikings' fans.

That Reggie was still here kinda surprised me (I had one other guy I thought should be long gone by now, but still on the board).

I kinda expected to take some flack over Bud because he never won a Super Bowl and there are still some coaches many/most would consider better than him still out there. I just can't bring myself to pick either of them, while great coaches they annoy the living crap out of me. There was a fourth coach I was considering, but he too never won a Super Bowl. I was looking at him because of the way he changed the game and how well he would work with a QB like Marino.

Bug Grant was as much a sentimental pick as anything.

GB
07-12-2005, 08:55 AM
There's a certain coach, still active, who has a very impressive resume, but I've never liked him and after reading 'Bloody Sundays' my desire for him reached new heights. And he has a terrible nickname. I think I'll take some stick when I pick my coach, I think he's one of the coaches you're talking about.

JCD
07-12-2005, 10:14 AM
There's a certain coach, still active, who has a very impressive resume, but I've never liked him and after reading 'Bloody Sundays' my desire for him reached new heights. And he has a terrible nickname. I think I'll take some stick when I pick my coach, I think he's one of the coaches you're talking about.

I think we are on the same page. Never liked the guy either. Respect him as a coach, but think he is a grade-A jerk and don't want to pick him.

Other guy I was thinking of used to coach that same team, but I don't care for him either. Bulletproof heads freak me out.

Big McLargehuge
07-12-2005, 11:22 AM
I will take:


LB Jack Lambert

Coach Bill Bellichek


Though there was no way in hell Lambert was going to last back to me I feel it's my duty with him being my all time favorite player to say one thing.

*******. :madfire:

FlyersHomer DM03
07-12-2005, 11:55 AM
Player: Reggie White

Coach: Bud Grant

I had Reggie White and Ray Nitschke just about even...Ray gets overshadowed by Butkus a lot of the time, but he's still one of the top 3 or 4 linebackers to play the game...was a very tough call...

FlyersHomer DM03
07-12-2005, 11:58 AM
I think a time limit of 12 hours would be a good idea.

yeah i think 12 hours is better...i'm not gonna enforce it if a few extra hours pass during the overnight hours, we gotta speed this up, you guys gotta send me a list or soemthing, even if you're at work for the day or something like that

chris_dub
07-12-2005, 12:54 PM
Falcons select:

DE: Bruce Smith

Coach: John Madden

Gibsons Finest
07-12-2005, 12:56 PM
Coach: Chuck Knoll

HBW's already got him. It's spelled "Noll" on the front page tho, so that might've confused you.

Sturminator
07-12-2005, 01:06 PM
I think we are on the same page. Never liked the guy either. Respect him as a coach, but think he is a grade-A jerk and don't want to pick him.

Other guy I was thinking of used to coach that same team, but I don't care for him either. Bulletproof heads freak me out.
Ssshhhh...!!! Don't be so obvious, J.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-12-2005, 05:35 PM
Unholy up followed by Sarge and then GB twice

FlyersHomer DM03
07-12-2005, 11:00 PM
yeah this is pissing me off, i'm switching to a 12-hour time limit after unholy picks, just to give him a fair shot at this pick

Unholy Diver
07-12-2005, 11:05 PM
The Browns select "Dobre Shunka" AKA Jack Ham LB and coach Jimmy Johnson



and its tough when you dont get a PM, its only the 2nd round and its coming apart

Unholy Diver
07-12-2005, 11:07 PM
Though there was no way in hell Lambert was going to last back to me I feel it's my duty with him being my all time favorite player to say one thing.

*******. :madfire:
you mustve loved watching him play before you were born

FlyersHomer DM03
07-12-2005, 11:08 PM
and its tough when you dont get a PM, its only the 2nd round and its coming apart

oh for real, guess its not all your fault...

12 hour time limit with thenext pick and please start pm'ing the person after you...

sarge88
07-12-2005, 11:11 PM
The Patriots are proud to select, possibly the greatest OL in NFL history - and certainly among the top 5.

John Hannah

and former Patriot Head Coach;

Duane Charles "Bill" Parcells

FlyersHomer DM03
07-12-2005, 11:14 PM
The Patriots are proud to select, possibly the greatest OL in NFL history - and certainly among the top 5.

John Hannah

and former Patriot Head Coach;

Duane Charles "Bill" Parcells

i'll definitely agree to best OL available, I think I give the best ever label to Anthony Munoz but then comes John Hannah I think...

ObeySteve
07-12-2005, 11:18 PM
Offensive line is such a ridiculously subjective argument for something like this because of how it evolves so much. In reality, any above average O-lineman now is probably as strong and athletic as even the great Anthony Munoz was because the OL has made leaps and bounds in the past decade or two.

sarge88
07-12-2005, 11:28 PM
Offensive line is such a ridiculously subjective argument for something like this because of how it evolves so much. In reality, any above average O-lineman now is probably as strong and athletic as even the great Anthony Munoz was because the OL has made leaps and bounds in the past decade or two.

Good point which makes this draft interesting because you can say that about a lot of positions.

As good as a guy like Butkus was in his prime - size-wise he's probably closer to the size of the average safety today than he is to a linebacker. Would that mean that a contemporar player would be a better pick?

How many times did Butkus take on a pulling guard that weighed over 275 lbs after shedding a 255 lb fullback?

Today's linebackers constantly take on 300-315 pounders that are probably more agile than the 250 lb. OL from 40 years ago.

I'm certainly not saying that Butkus wasn't a good pick, I was just using him as an example, but the changes in the game make this draft very interesting.

GB
07-13-2005, 04:52 AM
Here are my picks for the Raiders (last pick of round 2 and first pick of round 3):

Guard: Russ Grimm

Centre: Mike Webster

Coach: John Gruden.

JCD
07-13-2005, 08:43 AM
Offensive line is such a ridiculously subjective argument for something like this because of how it evolves so much. In reality, any above average O-lineman now is probably as strong and athletic as even the great Anthony Munoz was because the OL has made leaps and bounds in the past decade or two.

That is a good point. Would a 230 pound offensive tackle to any good against Reggie White, no matter how talented he is?

A way to correct for it is just assume we are drafting the modern equivalent to that player. William Perry was dominant because he was a good 30-40% bigger than your average DT. But in modern terms, a 300-320 pound DT is not worth noting. However, if we say the All-Time William Perry is still 30-40% bigger than your average DT, then we are talking about a 360-380 pound man with frightening strength and agility for a human wall.

Just a thought. Puts those 'old timers' back on even footing with more modern players. Might even give them an advatage.

sarge88
07-13-2005, 11:01 AM
The Patriots select

S - Ronnie Lott

GB
07-13-2005, 01:50 PM
That is a good point. Would a 230 pound offensive tackle to any good against Reggie White, no matter how talented he is?

A way to correct for it is just assume we are drafting the modern equivalent to that player. William Perry was dominant because he was a good 30-40% bigger than your average DT. But in modern terms, a 300-320 pound DT is not worth noting. However, if we say the All-Time William Perry is still 30-40% bigger than your average DT, then we are talking about a 360-380 pound man with frightening strength and agility for a human wall.

Just a thought. Puts those 'old timers' back on even footing with more modern players. Might even give them an advatage.
I agree with that, and I'll be taking performance over peers into account when I rank them. Otherwise a player like Jim Brown, who gained a lot of yards through his strength, would be less valuable.

Another thing I'll be considering is team balance. If a team has a great run-blocking line but looks like a pass-first offence I'd probably rank that lower than the same backs and recievers with a good pass-blocking line. Same goes with RB's, I'll probably rank a team with one back who can block and one who can run higher than a team with two HB's, neither of who can block.

Unholy Diver
07-13-2005, 10:11 PM
The Browns select LB "Samurai" Mike Singletary

JCD
07-13-2005, 10:24 PM
One pick to go and my boy is still on the board. Was debating on him or White. If chris_dub picks him I will curse his name for the ages...

chris_dub
07-13-2005, 11:00 PM
The Falcons select the "offense on defense", CB Emlen Tunnell

One pick to go and my boy is still on the board. Was debating on him or White. If chris_dub picks him I will curse his name for the ages...


I highly doubt I took your guy :P

Ronnie Bass
07-13-2005, 11:28 PM
The Falcons select the "offense on defense", CB Emlen Tunnell




I highly doubt I took your guy :P
I'm pretty sure I now who it is.....Alan Page. ;)

Sturminator
07-13-2005, 11:29 PM
I was thinking Dave Kreig.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-14-2005, 12:21 AM
I'm pretty sure I now who it is.....Alan Page. ;)

I know who it is...not Alan Page...the man in question would've been a huge steal pick for me, JC's gonna end up with him...but I've got a few other tricks up my sleeve...

FlyersHomer DM03
07-14-2005, 12:25 AM
glad I took my middle linebacker when I did, I had it narrowed down to Nitschke or Reggie White, went with the LB, Lambert and Singletary gone soon after...a pretty think crop now...

JCD
07-14-2005, 07:22 AM
Got em!

Dick "Night Train" Lane.

Arguably the most complete and intimidating CB in NFL history. Signed to play Defensive End (he was 6'2 and 200+ pounds back in the 60's; that would be a 240+ guy in modern terms), moved to CB to get on the field. Set a still-standing NFL rookie record for INTs with 14 in 12 games. Still sits 3rd All-Time in INTs despite playing a 12 game season. Tremendous playmaker. What scared people was his physical play. He leveled opponents like few have ever done. He was known as the Rodney Harrison of his day with some borderline hits, but receivers shuddered when they had to go up against him. Antoine Winfield in Bobby Taylor's body with the best hands in the league.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-14-2005, 10:42 AM
Got em!

Dick "Night Train" Lane.

Arguably the most complete and intimidating CB in NFL history. Signed to play Defensive End (he was 6'2 and 200+ pounds back in the 60's; that would be a 240+ guy in modern terms), moved to CB to get on the field. Set a still-standing NFL rookie record for INTs with 14 in 12 games. Still sits 3rd All-Time in INTs despite playing a 12 game season. Tremendous playmaker. What scared people was his physical play. He leveled opponents like few have ever done. He was known as the Rodney Harrison of his day with some borderline hits, but receivers shuddered when they had to go up against him. Antoine Winfield in Bobby Taylor's body with the best hands in the league.

that's a shock...i thought for sure you meant somebody else

GKJ
07-14-2005, 10:51 AM
I take WR Lance Alworth

FlyersHomer DM03
07-14-2005, 10:59 AM
my pick doesn't quite have the name recognition that he rightfully deserves. The backbone of the Baltimore Colts' defense for so many years...13 seasons, 11 pro bowls, 9-time all pro...Regarded as the best defensive end by some, even if not he revolutionized the position...I'll take DE Gino Marchetti

gretzky1545
07-14-2005, 11:18 AM
i wasn't planning on taking all the glamour positions early, but it just seems to have fallen this way....I select otto graham QB

Ronnie Bass
07-14-2005, 12:10 PM
I take WR Lance Alworth
You *******! :madfire:

Ronnie Bass
07-14-2005, 12:15 PM
Miami Dolphins select murderer O.J. Simpson.

Sturminator
07-14-2005, 12:39 PM
Got em!

Dick "Night Train" Lane.
I knew it; great pick.

Best corner ever, in my opinion, and arguably the best DB ever, though Ronnie Lott has a legitimate claim, as well.

Taylor21
07-14-2005, 01:04 PM
This Washington Redskins pick Merlin Olsen DT again. Redskins now have 2 of the 3 all time best defensive tackles

Detox
07-14-2005, 02:43 PM
The Baltimore Ravens will take WR Steve Largent

Ronnie Bass
07-18-2005, 11:03 PM
Were back up, I PM'd Hercules and we got some catching up to do.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=150682

Also if everyone could please add their team to this thread so everyone can get a clear look at who's got who and lets try from posting in there and try to use it has only a reference. I will lock that thread since this one won't need the bump all time, but not until the Tour is done and we can unsticky that, it's a bit crowded up there right now.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-19-2005, 06:49 PM
i'd like to get this going again, but it's going to be tricky to pull off, considering the lounge will prob. be locked up again upon ratification/draft lottery...

what i'd like to do is...get this draft as far as we can, and then once the lounge (if the lounge) closes down again...do it by PM...it would be cool if everyone knew who was before and after them, and after someone picks, send the selection to me and the next person and i'll keep the draft order/players taken lists up to date, or something like that...i have sarge's list, i believe he's gone until this sunday or something...for now lets see how far we can get by drafting on the board

Big McLargehuge
07-20-2005, 12:45 AM
RB Tony Dorsett

FlyersHomer DM03
07-20-2005, 01:05 AM
RB Tony Dorsett

thanks for jumping in...it's been almost a day, I guess this means the j-e-t-s are up for 2 in a row

i'd like to keep this a twelve-hour time limit as long as the lounge remains open...

Ronnie Bass
07-20-2005, 12:03 PM
RB Tony Dorsett
Dude, whenever you PM'd West19, he has 12 hours to make his pick, or you can go again.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-20-2005, 12:58 PM
Dude, whenever you PM'd West19, he has 12 hours to make his pick, or you can go again.

which should be coming up soon...a few more skips and i'll be up

and if someone goes a whole round without making up their skipped picks i'll try to find someone else to take charge of the team, because i know a lot of outside people comment on this draft...

Big McLargehuge
07-20-2005, 01:30 PM
well it's been 12 hours since I PMed West19...

DL Alan Page

FlyersHomer DM03
07-20-2005, 02:15 PM
thats cool...nice pick might i add

Herc's on the clock, 12 hours lets say 2:00 am EDT thurs morning and he can make both picks, if not, it goes to the ravens

i'd like to have us all meet in an hf chatroom if possible so we can knock off a round or two at one time, PM me with some good ideas/availability

Big McLargehuge
07-20-2005, 02:39 PM
My availability is limited and almost never known in advance so...I'm unable to do that.

I always check the boards a couple times a day when I have time though.

Gibsons Finest
07-20-2005, 04:27 PM
Indy picks LT Jim Parkert and DT Randy White.

West19
07-20-2005, 10:58 PM
Wiht the last pick in the third round The Jets Take LB Sam Huff and with the 1st pick in the 4th round the Jets take DL Jack Youngblood

Detox
07-21-2005, 01:37 AM
Ravens will select OG Gene Upshaw

Taylor21
07-21-2005, 08:33 AM
Earlier than I wanted to take a QB but can not risk him not being their when I pick again. So for a true steal of the draft, possible a top ten player all time, member of the NFL 75th Anniversary team:

Sammy Baugh QB & P

Ronnie Bass
07-21-2005, 10:32 AM
The Miami Dolphins select OT Forrest Gregg.

Big McLargehuge
07-21-2005, 11:15 AM
Earlier than I wanted to take a QB but can not risk him not being their when I pick again. So for a true steal of the draft, possible a top ten player all time, member of the NFL 75th Anniversary team:

Sammy Baugh QB & P

:clap: :clap: :clap:

FlyersHomer DM03
07-21-2005, 11:30 AM
Earlier than I wanted to take a QB but can not risk him not being their when I pick again. So for a true steal of the draft, possible a top ten player all time, member of the NFL 75th Anniversary team:

Sammy Baugh QB & P

I'm waiting on a QB until the bitter end...but can't go wrong with Baugh...one of the players that really fell thru the cracks, like how I got Marchetti last round, even though the name recognition isn't as evident as other players, he's still top 20 all time on most lists

gretzky1545
07-21-2005, 08:44 PM
i'll select willie lanier MLB

ObeySteve
07-21-2005, 08:46 PM
Looks like people are REALLY overlooking some of the greats that are in the NFL today and locks to be HOFers.

Gibsons Finest
07-21-2005, 08:54 PM
Earlier than I wanted to take a QB but can not risk him not being their when I pick again. So for a true steal of the draft, possible a top ten player all time, member of the NFL 75th Anniversary team:

Sammy Baugh QB & P

Great pick. I really was tempted to take him, but there are so many others that I figure I can get much later, and pick better other players now.

Taylor21
07-21-2005, 08:55 PM
or maybe we have better appreciation for what players have done and not of what players have yet to do. The league has been full of players who looked like HF'ers that never got there. But from your previous comments you do not realize the greatness of some of these "older" players.

ObeySteve
07-21-2005, 08:59 PM
or maybe we have better appreciation for what players have done and not of what players have yet to do. The league has been full of players who looked like HF'ers that never got there. But from your previous comments you do not realize the greatness of some of these "older" players.

I'm not talking about guys who MIGHT be Hall of Famers. I'm talking about guys who have already solidified their position in the HOF and just happen to still be in the NFL (I can also think of some who recently retired that should have also been drafted by now).

These are guys who have already gone down as one of the best, if not THE best ast the position they played- and history will only look more and more favorably at their career as time goes by.

I'm not even necessarily talking about a lot of guys, but there are at least 4 or 5 either still active or just retired that are hard to debate against being one of the (or the single) best ever at their position.

Unholy Diver
07-21-2005, 09:10 PM
Indy picks LT Jim Parkert and DT Randy White.
Just saw online that Parker died this past monday I think

Taylor21
07-21-2005, 09:32 PM
I'm not talking about guys who MIGHT be Hall of Famers. I'm talking about guys who have already solidified their position in the HOF and just happen to still be in the NFL (I can also think of some who recently retired that should have also been drafted by now).

These are guys who have already gone down as one of the best, if not THE best ast the position they played- and history will only look more and more favorably at their career as time goes by.

I'm not even necessarily talking about a lot of guys, but there are at least 4 or 5 either still active or just retired that are hard to debate against being one of the (or the single) best ever at their position.

Well that is your opinion. Right now there is not a player (not already selected) playing or one recently retired who I would considered the best ever at their position except for maybe Safety, Kicker and Punter. I would guess the guys you are thinking about will start to get picked right about where they deserved to be picked. You think more highly of current players some of us are very familar with players from different era's and how they should rank with players of today.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-21-2005, 10:29 PM
Well that is your opinion. Right now there is not a player (not already selected) playing or one recently retired who I would considered the best ever at their position except for maybe Safety, Kicker and Punter. I would guess the guys you are thinking about will start to get picked right about where they deserved to be picked. You think more highly of current players some of us are very familar with players from different era's and how they should rank with players of today.

yeah i'm too young to even come close to being alive while some of the players i've picked played, but i still know a ton about the old nfl...i can draft the players of today any time i do a fantasy draft on madden...how often can i draft great players from yesteryear like hall of fame FS-Larry Wilson

Wilson was overlooked for a different reason, he played for the lowly St. Louis Cardinals...8 pro bowls in 13 seasons...the origins of the safety blitz were created around his wreckless style, innovated the safety position, picked off 52 passes...one of the toughest players to play the game, this man once intercepted a ball with casts on both hands--now that is something you will never see from today's players...

Ronnie Bass
07-21-2005, 10:35 PM
Damn, Wilson would have been my next pick, good pick.

Gibsons Finest
07-22-2005, 03:36 AM
Just saw online that Parker died this past monday I think

Really? Wow, that really sucks. RIP Jim Parker

GKJ
07-22-2005, 07:38 AM
I will pick one of the members selected to the NFL's 75th anniversary team



CB Rod Woodson

JCD
07-22-2005, 07:53 AM
Going to give Marino his first bodyguard with Art Shell.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-22-2005, 11:09 AM
Damn, Wilson would have been my next pick, good pick.

I was thinking of letting Wilson go and picking someone else, thinking Wilson would slide back to me, glad I didn't

FlyersHomer DM03
07-22-2005, 11:22 AM
oh and PM me when sarge is up, he's on vacation till saturday and i have a list, i guess ill make his two picks when the round turns over...

Ronnie Bass
07-22-2005, 11:32 AM
I sticky the other thread for reference purposes, please when you get a chance add your team to that thread and lets try not to post in there unless needed.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-23-2005, 12:09 PM
i dont know what time the lounge was down yesterday, but i'm sure it was, so give chris a few extra hours

chris_dub
07-23-2005, 01:46 PM
Well with the Lounge back up:

Atlanta selects QB Steve Young

Unholy Diver
07-23-2005, 10:03 PM
the Browns select HB - Eric Dickerson


sarge is up

FlyersHomer DM03
07-23-2005, 10:36 PM
sarge said he was on vacation thru today so i'm gonna pick for him off his list...even if he's back i'll pick someone who he won't mind having...RB Earl Campbell

GB
07-24-2005, 11:58 AM
Sorry for the delay in selecting, but it was my stag party last night and it's taken me most of today to recover. Anyway I'll select:

HB LaDainian Tomlinson and
FB Alan Ameche

FlyersHomer DM03
07-24-2005, 12:17 PM
i'll pick for sarge again, he might be back from vacation today, but i'm gonna take from his list...i'm certain he won't mind, someone from the top of his list...New England gets OLB-Ted Hendricks...

Unholy Diver
07-24-2005, 01:32 PM
the Browns select T- Jackie Slater

chris_dub
07-24-2005, 03:50 PM
The Falcons select WR Cris Carter

JCD
07-24-2005, 04:23 PM
Vikings select their own Paul Krause.

Might be a bit high for the guy, but I dont care. Big playmaker in the middle who missed only 2 games in his career. Some of the best hands ever on a DB. Not the quickest guy, but made up for it with savvy.

GKJ
07-24-2005, 07:42 PM
Vikings select their own Paul Krause.

Might be a bit high for the guy, but I dont care. Big playmaker in the middle who missed only 2 games in his career. Some of the best hands ever on a DB. Not the quickest guy, but made up for it with savvy.

Good thing you took him because I was going to.


I don't think it's a reach to take the guy with the most picks in the history of football

Ronnie Bass
07-24-2005, 07:57 PM
Vikings select their own Paul Krause.

Might be a bit high for the guy, but I dont care. Big playmaker in the middle who missed only 2 games in his career. Some of the best hands ever on a DB. Not the quickest guy, but made up for it with savvy.
He probably would have lasted a little longer but definetly not a reach. I remember watching him play, he was as solid of a player you could get back there.

GKJ
07-25-2005, 09:48 AM
He probably would have lasted a little longer but definetly not a reach. I remember watching him play, he was as solid of a player you could get back there.

He would have lasted 1 pick longer because I was going to take him.



I will take WR Fred Biletnikoff

FlyersHomer DM03
07-25-2005, 11:26 AM
i just have to keep picking defense...five championships with the Packers, and another one with Dallas at the end...the packers bring in one of their own and take hall of fame CB Herb Adderley

gretzky1545
07-25-2005, 09:49 PM
i just have to keep picking defense...five championships with the Packers, and another one with Dallas at the end...the packers bring in one of their own and take hall of fame CB Herb Adderley

damn you!!!, and i'll take Willie Brown CB

Ronnie Bass
07-25-2005, 10:30 PM
Miami Dolphins select WR, Raymond Berry.

Taylor21
07-26-2005, 07:29 AM
The Redskins draft with a stretch: Ravens MLB Ray Lewis

JCD
07-26-2005, 09:03 AM
damn you!!!, and i'll take Willie Brown CB

I was hoping he would slip down one more round.

GB
07-26-2005, 09:24 AM
The Redskins draft with a stretch: Ravens MLB Ray Lewis
I think given the lack of real elite MLB's left this was a good selection. People seem to be down on Lewis now, but I think when people look back in 10-20 years he'll be much more highly regarded.

ObeySteve
07-26-2005, 09:56 AM
There isn't one football analyst who considers Lewis to NOT be a top 5 linebacker of all-time.

In an era where the importance of the linebacker has given way to having a good pass rush, Lewis will still go down as the best MLB ever. Not only that, but he's the most dominant player at his position outside of maybe Barry Sanders from the last 10 years.

Taylor21
07-26-2005, 10:40 AM
There isn't one football analyst who considers Lewis to NOT be a top 5 linebacker of all-time.

In an era where the importance of the linebacker has given way to having a good pass rush, Lewis will still go down as the best MLB ever. Not only that, but he's the most dominant player at his position outside of maybe Barry Sanders from the last 10 years.

:biglaugh: :lol::biglaugh: :lol:

Taylor21
07-26-2005, 10:48 AM
I think given the lack of real elite MLB's left this was a good selection. People seem to be down on Lewis now, but I think when people look back in 10-20 years he'll be much more highly regarded.

Yea not much left but would much rather have Singletary, Nitschke, Lambert or Butkus. Maybe even Lanier before Lewis. That is not even counting Taylor, so that would but him at 7th best linebacker.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-26-2005, 11:28 AM
There isn't one football analyst who considers Lewis to NOT be a top 5 linebacker of all-time.

In an era where the importance of the linebacker has given way to having a good pass rush, Lewis will still go down as the best MLB ever. Not only that, but he's the most dominant player at his position outside of maybe Barry Sanders from the last 10 years.

I loved Barry Sanders, watching him make all the tricky moves and such, was amazing...but you cannot call a back dominant if he had to be replaced on goal line situations, i'm sorry, thats not a dominant back

as for middle linebackers, ray lewis is going to the hall of fame, but i'm not going to argue with the great linebackers from another era...thats why i took nitschke so early, guys like him...butkus, lambert, etc...if all the middle linebackers got taken before ray lewis there's a definite trend as to what everyone thinks about lewis' spot in history--at least at this point in his career

GB
07-26-2005, 11:51 AM
Yea not much left but would much rather have Singletary, Nitschke, Lambert or Butkus. Maybe even Lanier before Lewis. That is not even counting Taylor, so that would but him at 7th best linebacker.
Yeah, that's the problem I'm having. I wanted to get the foundation of a good line first so between my 3rd and 4th picks most of the LB's I wanted had gone, so I'm going to wait a bit to pick them up.

ObeySteve
07-26-2005, 11:52 AM
The simple fact is that the longer time passes after a player in ANY sport retires, generally they are viewed in a better light. Any argument about flaws Lewis has are probably the same things all the so-called legends who played in earlier eras probably had, but time has faded away any memory of those weaknesses.

That's assuming a leigitimate argument can even be made for Lewis not being a top 5 LB of all time. We're talking about a guy with god knows how many consecutive Pro Bowl seasons, what is basically an official record for number of tackles with 210 in 1997, TWO defensive player of the year awards (what other middle linebacker has that?), a Super Bowl MVP, and generally being the main reason Baltimore has had such a dominant defense all decade. The guy leads like no other defensive player ever seen.

Oh, and all of those accomplishments are in an era today where linebackers aren't seen as the gods of defense like they were in the 70s. Linebackers in that era automatically got extra credit because they were the quarterbacks of defense- Lewis and today's linebackers don't have the luxury of getting that automatic extra credit.

Detox
07-26-2005, 12:04 PM
Seeing that Ray-Ray was taken just before my pick, the Baltimore Ravens change gears and willl select future HOF'er, and quite possibly the best WR in this era,WR Randy Moss

Ronnie Bass
07-26-2005, 12:39 PM
The guy leads like no other defensive player ever seen.

Sorry man, but this statement here is just ridiculous, Ray Lewis couldn't hold Lawrence Taylor's jock strap.


Oh, and all of those accomplishments are in an era today where linebackers aren't seen as the gods of defense like they were in the 70s. Linebackers in that era automatically got extra credit because they were the quarterbacks of defense- Lewis and today's linebackers don't have the luxury of getting that automatic extra credit.
No way, and how could you possibly know that? You never saw the linebackers of the '70's play like I did, this really couldn't be farther from the truth.

Taylor21
07-26-2005, 12:46 PM
The guy leads like no other defensive player ever seen.



Just from your lifetime or maybe you were not watching but Mike Singletary was far better leader of defense that Ray Lewis. Lewis could only wish to be mentioned in same breath as him. And Singletary was not as good of a linebacker as LT.

So there are two players you should have seen that outclass Lewis.

Unholy Diver
07-26-2005, 11:31 PM
Yea not much left but would much rather have Singletary, Nitschke, Lambert or Butkus. Maybe even Lanier before Lewis. That is not even counting Taylor, so that would but him at 7th best linebacker.

a book came out I think last year ranking the all time LB's I believe LT was ranked first with Jack Ham next, not sure if that was just OLB's or LB's in general

Gibsons Finest
07-27-2005, 01:03 AM
Seeing that Ray-Ray was taken just before my pick, the Baltimore Ravens change gears and willl select future HOF'er, and quite possibly the best WR in this era,WR Randy Moss

Damn, I guess that's what I get for taking Sayers and Landry away from you. I'll go in the same direction and select another future HOFer, and another great WR in his era, Indy's own WR Marvin Harrison.

JCD
07-27-2005, 07:22 PM
I loved Barry Sanders, watching him make all the tricky moves and such, was amazing...but you cannot call a back dominant if he had to be replaced on goal line situations, i'm sorry, thats not a dominant back

as for middle linebackers, ray lewis is going to the hall of fame, but i'm not going to argue with the great linebackers from another era...thats why i took nitschke so early, guys like him...butkus, lambert, etc...if all the middle linebackers got taken before ray lewis there's a definite trend as to what everyone thinks about lewis' spot in history--at least at this point in his career

I agree on Ray. One of the all-time greats, but top-5 is a stretch.

Disagree on Barry. He was pulled at the goalline not because he couldn't do it himself but to protect their star player from unneccesary abuse when they had a quality goalline back who could take the hits instead. They didn't HAVE to pull Barry, he was actually quite effective in short yardage if neccesary, they did it because there wasn't a need too. Barry was the Lions. Why take a chance slogging him through a pile when you can put Vardell in to do it just as well instead? You don't have to be 'the best' in every aspect of the game to be a great. Emmitt Smith would get often get pulled in passing situations because he didn't have great speed and his hands were not all that notable. Ditka took Payton off the field at the goalline because The Fridge gave them an automatic yard or two. About the only backs I can think of that never got pulled in any situation in my lifetime are Marshll Faulk and Thurmen Thomas. Ironically, neither of them have been drafted yet.

Barry dominated the game in a way free other backs have ever done. In my adult life, I have seen only 4 or so individual players that could totally control a game indepedant of the other 11 men on the field. Barry Sanders was one of them.

That is an all-time great in my book.

You follow the NFC. One game in particular brings this to a crystal point. Back in the day, the Vikes had an absolutely dominate defense. John Randall, Henry Thomas up front, Jack Del Rio in the middle. It was a machine. 1992, Halloween. Vikes versus Lions. Vikes are killing the Lions at half time. Lions had only a Field Goal, Vikes were up by 2+ scores. We held Barry to under 20 total yards. Looked like a win. Then Barry broke loose. In the second half, Barry accounted for all but a handful of the Lions total offense, racking up 200 yards in one half of football. This was against what was considered an elite defense. He was a 1-man show. He was literally unstoppable. That was not an isolated performance, just an example of what Sanders could do to a team.

If Barry isn't on the short list of great NFL backs, you have to question the validity of that list. Like keeping Wayne Gretzky off the list of All-Time NHLers because he was a bad bodychecker.

Ronnie Bass
07-27-2005, 09:30 PM
Who's up? This thing is moving like a drunken turtle.

Taylor21
07-28-2005, 09:52 AM
If Barry Sanders is such dominant force explain his playoff record.

1 win 5 Loses
91 carries for 386 yards.
Dominant performace of 13 carries for -1 yards.
His only game worthy of dominance was 27 carries for 169 in a loss.
Take this game out and his stats are 217 yards on 64 carries for avg of 3.4 a carry.

I do not want to hear about the quality of his team because they were playoff teams. He is a top running back but he was not the top back of his time. I would expect a dominant player to be able to win more than one playoff game. I also expect a dominant player to have gained at least one yards for a game.

Great back but dominating his position is a leap even Evil Knievel wouldn't have attempted.

GKJ
07-28-2005, 09:55 AM
HBW is up

West19
07-28-2005, 11:12 AM
With the Jets next to picks, they will select, RB Marcus Allen and WR Tim Brown

FlyersHomer DM03
07-28-2005, 11:16 AM
I do not want to hear about the quality of his team because they were playoff teams. He is a top running back but he was not the top back of his time. I would expect a dominant player to be able to win more than one playoff game. I also expect a dominant player to have gained at least one yards for a game.

Great back but dominating his position is a leap even Evil Knievel wouldn't have attempted.

and dont forget detroit's last playoff appearence was in '99, the year after he retired

i'm not underrating barry's greatness, the most elusive back i've ever seen by far, but the word 'dominant' doesnt apply here, maybe its different definitions of dominant but i dont give it to him

draft stuff...
it's been 24 hours easy, Pitt is skipped, West19 and the Jets are up

JCD
07-28-2005, 03:04 PM
If Barry Sanders is such dominant force explain his playoff record.

1 win 5 Loses
91 carries for 386 yards.
Dominant performace of 13 carries for -1 yards.
His only game worthy of dominance was 27 carries for 169 in a loss.
Take this game out and his stats are 217 yards on 64 carries for avg of 3.4 a carry.

I do not want to hear about the quality of his team because they were playoff teams. He is a top running back but he was not the top back of his time. I would expect a dominant player to be able to win more than one playoff game. I also expect a dominant player to have gained at least one yards for a game.

Great back but dominating his position is a leap even Evil Knievel wouldn't have attempted.

Who was better than Barry? Don't tell me Emmitt because he did less with more. Had Barry not retired, Emmitt would not have gotten a sniff of the rushing title.

That the Lions didn't win is a weak argument. Teams win. That Barry couldn't single-handedly carry the team every game is not a valid argument. That the Lions even made the post-season most years was because of Barry.

You knock on Barry because he won only ONE play-off game? You do realize that was the Lions ONLY play-off win since 1957 right? The Lions had 2 winning seasons in 15 years before Barry. They were a push-over nobody of a team. It was Barry that made them dangerous. Without Barry, they have become the Kittens again. Look at the history of the Lions. Since the NFL merger, the Lions have played only 10 play-off games. Barry started in 6 of them. Including the only one they have won.

Saying the man who was a shoe-in to be the NFL's leading rusher of all time, who did so with a marginal supporting cast, who carried his team further than they had ever gone in the SuperBowl era, who put Detroit back on the football map a dominating player isn't an Evel Knievel leap. It is common sense.

JCD
07-28-2005, 03:17 PM
and dont forget detroit's last playoff appearence was in '99, the year after he retired

i'm not underrating barry's greatness, the most elusive back i've ever seen by far, but the word 'dominant' doesnt apply here, maybe its different definitions of dominant but i dont give it to him

Don't forget that the Lions only made the post-season that year as an 8-8 Wild Card on a 4-game losing streak. They had an abysmal rushing attack (one of the worst in the league; just showing how great Barry was in that he could lead the league in rushing behind that same squad). They made it on defense that year, putting 3 defenders in the Pro Bowl.

Dominance describes what Barry does perfectly. He ascended to the top of his sport and controlled games. That he, like virtually every other back, was subbed out on occasions is irrelevent.

Taylor21
07-28-2005, 08:36 PM
You knock on Barry because he won only ONE play-off game? You do realize that was the Lions ONLY play-off win since 1957 right? The Lions had 2 winning seasons in 15 years before Barry. They were a push-over nobody of a team. It was Barry that made them dangerous.

If they were so dangerous then why did they win only 1 playoff game (his rookie year). A dangerous team, no way.


Without Barry, they have become the Kittens again. Look at the history of the Lions. Since the NFL merger, the Lions have played only 10 play-off games. Barry started in 6 of them. Including the only one they have won.

As been stated they made the playoffs without him. Actually they went from a 5-11 team with Barry to a playoff team without him! They then went 9-7 two years after him. So how dominant was he if you take him off the team and they make the playoffs and win 3 more games!


Saying the man who was a shoe-in to be the NFL's leading rusher of all time, who did so with a marginal supporting cast, who carried his team further than they had ever gone in the SuperBowl era, who put Detroit back on the football map a dominating player isn't an Evel Knievel leap. It is common sense.

Yea he put Detroit on the map. The only thing that put Detroit on the football map was having Super Bowls and Thanksgiving Games played there. He was a great back but to say he dominated the position is a tremendous leap. A dominant back when the games mean the most would produce. Barry playoff stats are a joke for a dominant player!! Do not give me inferior teams they were good enough to make the playoffs. It is not like hockey or basketball where everybody makes it. So it does takes common sense to realize he wasn't dominant. It is not slap to him, he will still be great but dominant not quite.

Ronnie Bass
07-28-2005, 10:00 PM
Who was better than Barry? Don't tell me Emmitt because he did less with more. Had Barry not retired, Emmitt would not have gotten a sniff of the rushing title.

JCD, isn't it possible that the era had no dominate backs? I think no doubt that Barry was the best in his era, but even then I be tempted to take Emmitt over him only because he was a more consistent runner as Barry was more of a big run or nothing type of running back. I just find it hard to see how teams could be a Super Bowl contender with the style of Sanders, most teams seem to always wins the big games were the teams who ran the ball with a three yards and dust mentality, and Smith was much better running back to accomplish that, even granted he had a better offensive line.

JCD
07-29-2005, 07:12 AM
If they were so dangerous then why did they win only 1 playoff game (his rookie year). A dangerous team, no way.

Barry was the only thing on that offense that was dangerous. Kinda the point there. An individual can only do so much. To blast a great player because he was on a bad team is foolish to me. Nobody else could have done better on the Lions. Nobody else could have taken them further.

As been stated they made the playoffs without him. Actually they went from a 5-11 team with Barry to a playoff team without him! They then went 9-7 two years after him. So how dominant was he if you take him off the team and they make the playoffs and win 3 more games!

Defense and a soft schedule. The 1999 team had 4 Pro-Bowl caliber defenders (3 went there). The 9-7 finish was the only winning season without Barry since 1983. There is an easy way to see just how dominant he was: Watch him play. Sure he had off games, that was the style he played. On the other hand, he could go against the best defenses in the NFL and light them up like a JV team. You knock his play-off performances and say his only good game came in a loss. What you don't mention is how good those defenses he faced were (Packers were one of the best defensive teams in the league at that time) or how that having a players statistics drop in the post-season is typical and Barry is far from the only great RB to experience that.

Yea he put Detroit on the map. The only thing that put Detroit on the football map was having Super Bowls and Thanksgiving Games played there.

That is being silly, you know what I meant. Before Barry, Lions were a Cardinals / Bengals caliber team. A team you expected a 'W' from and one you knew wasn't going to make the post-season. Barry was what kept the Lions from being pushovers.

Again, Barry started in 60% of the team play-off games over the last 48 years. NOBODY in the NFL could have done more with that team. NOBODY would have carried that team as far as they went.

He was a great back but to say he dominated the position is a tremendous leap.

I find this comical. Barry is #3 ALL-TIME in rushing (and unlike those above him, he had a marginal offensive line at best and below-par QBs). 5th ALL-TIME in Rushing Attempts. 7th ALL TIME in Rushing TDs (and would have even more if they didn't sub in Vardell). 10th ALL TIME in Total TDs. 5th ALL-TIME in Total Yards. He has a career YPC of 5 yards.

And the guy retired young.

But no, being in the top-10 for ever recordable statistic isn't dominance?!?!?! Saying the #3 (would have been #1) rusher of all time is a dominant players is a tremendous leap to you?

Let me guess, you think Walter Payton wasn't dominant either. Like Barry, he was a big-play guy. Like Barry, his post-season numbers left much to be desired. Like Barry, he was pulled on the goalline.

You can argue that other players are better than Barry, that is legit. To say that he wasn't one of the best players at his position after the numbers he put up and the testimonies of those who actually watched him play say he was?

Disagree about where he is ranked, but to say that calling him dominant is a 'leap' is downright laughable.

A dominant back when the games mean the most would produce. Barry playoff stats are a joke for a dominant player!! Do not give me inferior teams they were good enough to make the playoffs. It is not like hockey or basketball where everybody makes it. So it does takes common sense to realize he wasn't dominant. It is not slap to him, he will still be great but dominant not quite.

What is the difference between great and dominance. You slag on Barry a lot, but have yet to tell me anybody who was better. Let's hear it. Name me some dominant RBs and lets see how they stack up to Barry.

JCD
07-29-2005, 07:27 AM
JCD, isn't it possible that the era had no dominate backs? I think no doubt that Barry was the best in his era, but even then I be tempted to take Emmitt over him only because he was a more consistent runner as Barry was more of a big run or nothing type of running back. I just find it hard to see how teams could be a Super Bowl contender with the style of Sanders, most teams seem to always wins the big games were the teams who ran the ball with a three yards and dust mentality, and Smith was much better running back to accomplish that, even granted he had a better offensive line.

Barry carried his team in a way no other offensive player in the past 25 years has. With a marginal line and bad QBs as help, he was the best RB of his era.

Emmitt was more consistent, but he also didn't have to create his own offense. He had a line that would let me pick up 4 yards at will and a Hall of Fame QB keeping defenses honest.

Again, I find it hard to fathom that anybody who actually watched Barry play could sit here and not call him dominant. You don't retire on the verge of being the greatest runner in the history of the NFL while toiling on a sub-par team without being a dominant player. That just doesn't add up.

The notion that only 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust runners can get you a Super Bowl isn't true.
-Marshall Faulk. Very much like Barry in that he would lose you yards and relied on the big play.
-Michael Pittman. An inconsistent runner known for his versatility not his power.
-Ricky Watters. Like Barry, a very inconsistent post-season rusher. Also known for his versatility and big-play ability, not his power.
-Walter Payton. Barry actually has similar post-season numbers than Sweetness. Guess Sweetness wasn't dominant either...

We can go on, but you get the point. The key to Super Bowl success isn't a burly runner, it is a good offensive line and a great defense. Great running backs have nothing to do with the Super Bowl. Marshall Faulk lost to Antwoine Smith. It is defense that carries the day. You look back at the past winners and virtually every one of them had a top-10 defense.

Taylor21
07-29-2005, 10:30 AM
I think I see your problem because he is great he must be dominant. I would never ague with someone calling him great. But being great and dominant are not the same thing.


Barry was the only thing on that offense that was dangerous. Kinda the point there. An individual can only do so much. To blast a great player because he was on a bad team is foolish to me. Nobody else could have done better on the Lions. Nobody else could have taken them further.

I would list those who could have taken them further but I need to wrap up this discussion if my boss knew how much time I spent on this discussion she would cut me off for a month.


Defense and a soft schedule. The 1999 team had 4 Pro-Bowl caliber defenders (3 went there). The 9-7 finish was the only winning season without Barry since 1983. There is an easy way to see just how dominant he was: Watch him play. Sure he had off games, that was the style he played. On the other hand, he could go against the best defenses in the NFL and light them up like a JV team. You knock his play-off performances and say his only good game came in a loss. What you don't mention is how good those defenses he faced were (Packers were one of the best defensive teams in the league at that time) or how that having a players statistics drop in the post-season is typical and Barry is far from the only great RB to experience that.

One great game out of 5. Your key word here great not dominant.


That is being silly, you know what I meant. Before Barry, Lions were a Cardinals / Bengals caliber team. A team you expected a 'W' from and one you knew wasn't going to make the post-season. Barry was what kept the Lions from being pushovers.

If you watched football you would know the Bengals have made it to two Super Bowls which is two more than Detroit. Silly not knowing that.


Again, Barry started in 60% of the team play-off games over the last 48 years. NOBODY in the NFL could have done more with that team. NOBODY would have carried that team as far as they went.

This is silly. Means nothing in regards to his dominance. Emmitt Smith, Eric Dickerson, Walter Payton, Terrell Davis etc. could have done the same thing, but guess what how will we ever know and you have now way of proving your point or mine.


I find this comical. Barry is #3 ALL-TIME in rushing (and unlike those above him, he had a marginal offensive line at best and below-par QBs). 5th ALL-TIME in Rushing Attempts. 7th ALL TIME in Rushing TDs (and would have even more if they didn't sub in Vardell). 10th ALL TIME in Total TDs. 5th ALL-TIME in Total Yards. He has a career YPC of 5 yards.

Barry's offensive lines were not marginal. They were never fanatastic but if you had seen Detroit play you would know he had very good solid line.




But no, being in the top-10 for ever recordable statistic isn't dominance?!?!?! Saying the #3 (would have been #1) rusher of all time is a dominant players is a tremendous leap to you?

Let me guess, you think Walter Payton wasn't dominant either. Like Barry, he was a big-play guy. Like Barry, his post-season numbers left much to be desired. Like Barry, he was pulled on the goalline.

You can argue that other players are better than Barry, that is legit. To say that he wasn't one of the best players at his position after the numbers he put up and the testimonies of those who actually watched him play say he was?

Disagree about where he is ranked, but to say that calling him dominant is a 'leap' is downright laughable.

Great does not equal dominant. To think because one is great they are dominant is laughable. Tells me you did not watch Barry but can look up his stats.


What is the difference between great and dominance. You slag on Barry a lot, but have yet to tell me anybody who was better. Let's hear it. Name me some dominant RBs and lets see how they stack up to Barry.

Wow calling someone great is insulting them. That is laughable.

You seem to be saying because his stats put him on top he must have been dominant. Well I make my judgement on seeing him play and while he was great he was not dominant.

So my conclusion is we have different definitions of dominant.

My producer is whispering in my ear for commercial break and when we come back from break I need to move on. Like hopefully make a pick before Alex Smith becomes elgible to be drafted. Lets speed this draft along.

Ronnie Bass
07-29-2005, 10:36 AM
Barry carried his team in a way no other offensive player in the past 25 years has. With a marginal line and bad QBs as help, he was the best RB of his era.

I wouldn't say his offense line was mariginal, they were far from great, but they were pretty good lead by Pro Bowlers Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover. And if you want a dominate back better than Sanders over the last 25 years how about Eric Dickerson? His years with the Rams were with QB's such as Jim Everett and Dieter Brock and their recievers minus maybe Henry Ellard were nothing to write home about either even so they had a very good line, but they won ten games or more almost every season and when it came playoff time Dickerson stepped up BIG time rushing for 724 yards in seven games, Sanders in six games got to the 70 yard plateau just once! See JCD, that really bothers me.

I mean shouldn't dominate players be counted on to dominate in all facets of the football season, not just regular season?


The notion that only 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust runners can get you a Super Bowl isn't true.
-Marshall Faulk. Very much like Barry in that he would lose you yards and relied on the big play.
-Michael Pittman. An inconsistent runner known for his versatility not his power.
-Ricky Watters. Like Barry, a very inconsistent post-season rusher. Also known for his versatility and big-play ability, not his power.
-Walter Payton. Barry actually has similar post-season numbers than Sweetness. Guess Sweetness wasn't dominant either...

I agree 100%, that's why I used the words "most teams", go back and check it out man. And btw, Sweetness was a very consistent running back and his numbers while not great are nowhere near the abysimal numbers put forth by Sanders in the postseason.



We can go on, but you get the point. The key to Super Bowl success isn't a burly runner, it is a good offensive line and a great defense. Great running backs have nothing to do with the Super Bowl. Marshall Faulk lost to Antwoine Smith. It is defense that carries the day. You look back at the past winners and virtually every one of them had a top-10 defense.

My point is not that great running backs help win Super Bowls but that consistent running backs are a major key to winning the big games.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-29-2005, 11:04 AM
only one person has picked in 24 hours...hbw's skipped again it goes back to the colts...

JCD
07-29-2005, 12:09 PM
This is getting asinine. Lets stick to the draft instead of ridiculing people for calling Barry Sanders a dominant player.

Ronnie Bass
07-29-2005, 12:19 PM
Hey guys, I don't know if this is the reason this draft has bogged down, but please make sure when you make your pick to PM the poster who is up next, this is moving WAAAAAAYYYY to slow right now.

Gibsons Finest
07-29-2005, 07:59 PM
Indianapolis selects OLB Bobby Bell.

Detox
07-29-2005, 10:41 PM
Ravens select CB Darrell Green

Taylor21
07-29-2005, 10:49 PM
I was going to select him then I decided not to and then decided to so a pick I have a little hesitancy about

Mike Haynes DB

Ronnie Bass
07-30-2005, 12:43 AM
Let's try this again, the Miami Dolphins select, MLB Joe Schmidt.

I orginally chose Darrell Green not realizing it was selected two picks before - duh.

gretzky1545
07-30-2005, 01:35 AM
and i'll take bronko nagurski for my goal line back and LB

Ronnie Bass
07-30-2005, 01:43 AM
and i'll take bronko nagurski for my goal line back and LB
I'm like the worst moderator today(some think everyday), I give lectures on sending PM's after you pick and I can't even do it myself. :shakehead

Sorry about that dude.

Big McLargehuge
07-30-2005, 09:05 PM
Sorry about being so late, PMs weren't working for some reason(and I wasn't PMed by anyone other than Lou is God)...

LB Derrick Thomas & WR Lynn Swann

Unholy Diver
07-30-2005, 09:07 PM
shoulda contracted the Steelers

FlyersHomer DM03
07-30-2005, 11:09 PM
glad i took herb adderley when i did, after this run of corners...

ok, with my pick...its one of those picks where you have to double check to make sure he's still there cause you're damn certain he had to have been picked already...one of the best linemen to play the game, giants hall of fame tackle, Roosevelt Brown

...a side note, just notify the person picking after you, as i am about to leave GKJ an IM right now...hell, when you make a pick, say the team after you ..

"the Saints are on the clock"

now that the draft is done lets hope the board will be accessible easily and we can rattle off a few rounds this week...

FlyersHomer DM03
07-31-2005, 01:46 PM
alright screw it, I im'd GKJ last night around 11 when i made my pick telling him he's up...skip...JCD and the vikes now

JCD
07-31-2005, 02:03 PM
Just because I don't want to do a lot of research on who might be better and don't think he will be around on my next pass, going to go with defensive end Chris Doleman. 3rd All-Time in sacks and one of the most explosive and dominant pass rushers in NFL history. And a former Viking.

FlyersHomer DM03
07-31-2005, 02:12 PM
huge doleman fan here--pure, all around speed off the edge, very underrated, i think he should be a candidate for the hall, a lot of the defensive greats of that era are getting snubbed i think...i'd look to pick him, but as you can see, if you played while i was born--you're not on my defense...

and JC make sure you pm'd the next guy

chris_dub
07-31-2005, 02:32 PM
Atlanta selects Pro-Bowler DT William "The Fridge" Perry

Unholy Diver
07-31-2005, 09:08 PM
Cleveland selects C- Dermontti Dawson

Sarge is up

sarge88
07-31-2005, 09:41 PM
New England selects - C - Dwight Stephenson

Big McLargehuge
07-31-2005, 11:38 PM
Cleveland selects C- Dermontti Dawson

Sarge is up

urgh...I had him written for my pick but I changed it to Swann at the last second...

GKJ
07-31-2005, 11:48 PM
Philadelphia picks T Johnathan Ogden

sarge88
08-01-2005, 12:11 AM
Unholy Diver - I pm'd you asking if you could make my next pick for me as I'll be away for a few days. I think the "pop up" notice that a pm has arrived has been turned off so I figured I'd give you a heads up here.

If you can't make my picks let me know before noon on Monday and I'll try to find someone else.

Thanks

GB
08-01-2005, 07:25 AM
Oakland select DT Buck Buchanan and WR Terrell Owens

GB
08-01-2005, 07:27 AM
New England are up

sarge88
08-01-2005, 11:07 AM
New England selects - DE - Howie Long

Unholy Diver
08-01-2005, 10:07 PM
Cleveland selects G Larry Little

the Falcons are up


got the message Sarge

chris_dub
08-02-2005, 12:27 AM
Atlanta selects OLB Otis Wilson

FlyersHomer DM03
08-02-2005, 01:08 AM
oh man, right thru the heart, buck buchannan, i was confident he'd make it back to me, i had him penciled in in the middle of my line already...great pick, surprised to see him this late...

chris_dub
08-02-2005, 01:13 AM
oh man, right thru the heart, buck buchannan, i was confident he'd make it back to me, i had him penciled in in the middle of my line already...great pick, surprised to see him this late...

You & me both

JCD
08-02-2005, 06:28 AM
Just to continue the theme...

DT John Randall

GB
08-02-2005, 08:12 AM
oh man, right thru the heart, buck buchannan, i was confident he'd make it back to me, i had him penciled in in the middle of my line already...great pick, surprised to see him this late...
Well originally I was going to take him and the Fridge, but with him gone I decided a WR might be needed, but sadly Raymond Berry was gone so I had to go with Owens. I have a DT and a couple of OGs lined up next, and I'm confident the team will be able to be built around that quite well, and then I'll add to the positions further away from the centre.

GKJ
08-03-2005, 05:15 AM
Saints take DT Dan Hampton of Da Bears

FlyersHomer DM03
08-04-2005, 12:06 PM
alright, way behind, the server's been jammed, first time i'm on in three days...

i'm not messing around, a man who needs no introduction, the one guy who from the start i said "had to" be on this team...QB Brett Favre

Big McLargehuge
08-04-2005, 02:59 PM
I can't believe Favre was still available. I almost took him back in the first round...

FlyersHomer DM03
08-04-2005, 03:42 PM
I can't believe Favre was still available. I almost took him back in the first round...

my goal was to wait until late to pikc a QB, because, worst case scenario you get the 14th best QB in nfl history, thats not too bad, but favre, on the packers in an all time draft, yeah ill take him 7th

gretzky1545
08-04-2005, 09:22 PM
DE Willie Davis

Ronnie Bass
08-04-2005, 09:56 PM
The Miami Dolphins select the great Bobby Layne, QB.

Taylor21
08-04-2005, 10:21 PM
Redskins select Larry Allen and will call him OL for now since he has been an all-pro at 3 different positions. Another damm Cowboy.

Detox
08-05-2005, 12:32 AM
Ravens will continue to address our defense and will select CB Lem Barney

GB
08-05-2005, 06:59 AM
Redskins select Larry Allen and will call him OL for now since he has been an all-pro at 3 different positions. Another damm Cowboy.
Nice pick this late, he was one of 3 players I had listed to fill my other guard spot.

Gibsons Finest
08-06-2005, 02:24 PM
Indy goes with C/OLB Mel Hein.

ObeySteve
08-06-2005, 02:48 PM
I can't believe Favre was still available. I almost took him back in the first round...

Why would you take Favre in the first round?

The guy has rather modest numbers outside of about 2-3 excellent seasons for his career....solid numbers, but modest for all the hype and labels he gets as being possibly a top 5 QB ever. He never took his team to a significant win except for when his team (particularly the defense) was absolutely stacked the two years they made it to the Super Bowl.

Hall of Fame material, but one of the 10 best players in the history of football? Half the credit he gets is simply because he's the quarterback for one of the two "America's team", and everyone in middle America looks at him as some kind of wholesome man their children should look up to.

Sturminator
08-06-2005, 03:02 PM
Redskins select Larry Allen and will call him OL for now since he has been an all-pro at 3 different positions. Another damm Cowboy.
Arguably the best guard of all-time. Nice pick.

F-in cowboys.

gretzky1545
08-07-2005, 01:08 AM
Why would you take Favre in the first round?

The guy has rather modest numbers outside of about 2-3 excellent seasons for his career....solid numbers, but modest for all the hype and labels he gets as being possibly a top 5 QB ever. He never took his team to a significant win except for when his team (particularly the defense) was absolutely stacked the two years they made it to the Super Bowl.

Hall of Fame material, but one of the 10 best players in the history of football? Half the credit he gets is simply because he's the quarterback for one of the two "America's team", and everyone in middle America looks at him as some kind of wholesome man their children should look up to.

i'd agree to an extent. No one would argue his career outside of the great public aura hes got going is worthy of the HOF, but the fact thats hes the all american man with a ****ing rocket for an arm makes him a bit above that, and i have no problem with that affecting his status among the all time greats. He just does amazing, memorable things, and that should be counted when ranking him among the all time greats. When your dad dies and you absolutey go off the next game, your HOF value in my book goes up a bit more than just the stats you got in that game.

Big McLargehuge
08-07-2005, 11:57 PM
DE Ernie Stautner

Ronnie Bass
08-09-2005, 09:10 AM
Who's up?? :dunno:

Taylor21
08-09-2005, 12:40 PM
Is it not time to skip someone and get this thing moving.

Detox
08-09-2005, 01:21 PM
Im leaning towards West being skipped and HBW on the clock..

FlyersHomer DM03
08-09-2005, 10:40 PM
sorry everyone, major virus this past week, but i'm back on--ok, yeah West is skipped, HBW is up

Big McLargehuge
08-10-2005, 10:30 AM
LB/C Chuck Bednarik

Big McLargehuge
08-10-2005, 04:01 PM
Why would you take Favre in the first round?

The guy has rather modest numbers outside of about 2-3 excellent seasons for his career....solid numbers, but modest for all the hype and labels he gets as being possibly a top 5 QB ever. He never took his team to a significant win except for when his team (particularly the defense) was absolutely stacked the two years they made it to the Super Bowl.

Hall of Fame material, but one of the 10 best players in the history of football? Half the credit he gets is simply because he's the quarterback for one of the two "America's team", and everyone in middle America looks at him as some kind of wholesome man their children should look up to.

Keep in mind I said "almost."

I ended up going with a guy with four rings because...well...he has four rings. Championships aren't the best way to measure a guy's career, but Bradshaw was practically invinceable come playoff time.