Tampa 3 Fla 2 OT

Horton had the tying goal with 9 seconds left from Jokinen and Kozlov. Jokinen score on a penalty shot in the first. Cullen only had 8 minutes of ice time. Huselius had 14 and bure had 16. Stewart had 16 too. Horton was 25 percent in the faceoff circle going 5 for 20. Weiss didn't play so we all know where he's headed. Horton looks like he's gonna stick.

Mezei had a -3 for plus/minus and Stewart will go back to the OHL. I know after this game we will see the cuts come in. Did Hagman play?

blah, a dismal performance by the D, i feel bad for luongo. but at least we were in this game.

The SOG number is not very impressive but Horton's late score sure is!
He's one Cat that's making for an easy decision. :handclap:

i guess i'm the only one who wants to see Horton go back to Juniors. i dont want to rush his development.

Prior to the broken jaw Horton was cranking out 2 ppg. He's been good for at least 1 ppg with the big boys. What's he gonna gain by going back to jrs? :dunno:

i guess i'm the only one who wants to see Horton go back to Juniors. i dont want to rush his development.

yeah, gawf forbid he help FLA, which will be his purpose at some point :rolleyes:

he doesnt do us anygood if he is rushed into the lineup and ends up a bust.

As a season ticket holder who only saw "8" home wins last year I do not want Horton going back to Juniors!! He has shown that he can play with the Big Boys...averaging a point per game in 4 exhibition games. I would worry about him picking up bad habits going back to Juniors where he would be a giant fish among minows :))

Thunderheart

One thing that makes him different from typical busts is that he has all the skills, works really hard and hits and plays an agressive style. If he was smaller, I'd send him back to juniors but he is bigger than most guys. I would have sent Weiss back to juniors and he is the prototypical example of a guy not to rush, but Horton is ready and will make the team no question if a contract is resolved and the way he has played, it wouldn't be a bad investment.

I sure wouldn't mind Horton being sent back to juniors. Sure makes watching the Oshawa Generals more exciting.

If he makes it though, I'll be happy for him. When he's on his game, he's a world class talent.

He looks to have put the jaw injury well behind him. Confidence doesn't look to be a factor anymore.

As long as he just goes out and plays his game, bringing it every night, holding nothing back, he should be just fine.

His abilities sure aren't in question, just a matter of putting it all together on a consistent basis. In this aspect I think Keenan will really pay off. If it looks as if Horton could use a fire lit under him, Keenan is just the coach to light that fire. He wont settle, wont let up, will keep pushing, which will be good for Horton.

Box Scores with line-up from Yahoo (http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore?gid=2003092820)

What not many of us are noticing is how Bure is putting up points consistently as well. I think the paper said he had 3 or 4 assists so far and he added another one tonite. While not really scoring goals, he's still doing what he does so well by creating scoring opportunities. The thing that I can't understand is playing Biron for 22 mins. He's not a guy I would play for that many mins per game. Something more like 15 or less is more like it.

Panther fans can than Nikita Alexeev for the tying goal....all the poor kid had to do was lob it down ice toward the empty net, and the time would have ran out, but no, with 12 seconds left he finally wants to STICKHANDLE through TRAFFIC!!!!....and Bure stole it from him, and the goal was scored with 6.7 seconds left....

Prior to the broken jaw Horton was cranking out 2 ppg. He's been good for at least 1 ppg with the big boys. What's he gonna gain by going back to jrs? :dunno:

For the record, the Stewart fight took place very early in the season. The repeated 2ppg attribute is rather misleading.

But it's obvious that Horton is making a strong case for himself. I just hope that if Keenan's machinations do succeed, Horton will see some time with skilled players. The kid better have thick skin and an ability to mitigate distractions, the primary one being Keenan himself.

I didn't intend to mislead and like you said, the injury happened relatively early on last season, but the fact remains Horton was dominating jr's up until that time and as I recall finished quite strongly in the playoffs as well.

I'd expect Horton to continue recieving "most favored nation" status from Keenan. He's been getting preferred treatment from Keenan and would likely continue to regardless of his play. However, unlike others that have been the beneficiary of such treatment (Matteau,Yushky) Horton has been deserving.

It should be clear to all that this is Mike's boy.

I didn't intend to mislead and like you said, the injury happened relatively early on last season, but the fact remains Horton was dominating jr's up until that time and as I recall finished quite strongly in the playoffs as well.

I'd expect Horton to continue recieving "most favored nation" status from Keenan. He's been getting preferred treatment from Keenan and would likely continue to regardless of his play. However, unlike others that have been the beneficiary of such treatment (Matteau,Yushky) Horton has been deserving.

It should be clear to all that this is Mike's boy.

Yes, it's quite clear.

Conversely, how long did the Cullen feel-good story last? About a game longer than the Shvidki feel-good story. At some point, perhaps sooner than later, it wouldn't be a major shock to see every member of the Doghouse Line eventually revert back to their former status.

And there's the rub. Supposing Keenan gets his wish or even supposing he doesn't. What happens during the regular season? The preseason is a free pass for everyone -- Keenan can bully whomever he wishes and Dudley can bring in anyone he wants to. At some point there has to be an intersection and I just don't see it happening. What happens if Keenan wants to work with Horton and Stewart but finds out he can't? What happens if he can but they don't produce?

(BTW, I know you weren't trying to mislead anyone.)

On Clash's yahoo link with the lineup vs TB it says Kudroc played but didn't he have surgery??? Must be an error.

It looks like the domination in the face-off circle by the Bolts was the main reason the Panthers gave up so many shots, as well as not getting enough chances in the first few periods. Hopefully the Cats can improve in that aspect.

It looks like the domination in the face-off circle by the Bolts was the main reason the Panthers gave up so many shots, as well as not getting enough chances in the first few periods. Hopefully the Cats can improve in that aspect.I don't see that happening if they send Weiss to San Antonio. He's been better than most on the team in the faceoff circle for the amount of faceoffs he's taken. If you look at last yr's stats on him in the circle, he took 1,065 and won 493 which is 46% faceoff winning percentage. Then take a look at the other 2 top centers we have in Jokinen & Cullen. Jokinen took 1,925 (almost double) and won 898 for a 47% faceoff winning percentage; Cullen took just 694 and won 337 for a 49% faceoff winning percentage. While Cullen & Jokinen had a better percentage, you can see where the discrepancy is and how FL probably won't improve in that department (even if Horton takes over as #3 center). And what's interesting is that Keenan said that Nilson isn't a very good center in the paper today. But his faceoff statistics show a slightly different story. He took 469 and won 219 for a 47% faceoff winning percentage which is the same as Jokinen. Not one regular center for FL had a winning percentage higher than 50%. Now for FL to have improved in this aspect, it would have been beneficial to sign Nieuwendyk as he was 5th in the league in this dept. and took 1,383 faceoffs, winning 809 for a winning percentage of 59%.

I don't see that happening if they send Weiss to San Antonio. He's been better than most on the team in the faceoff circle for the amount of faceoffs he's taken. If you look at last yr's stats on him in the circle, he took 1,065 and won 493 which is 46% faceoff winning percentage. Then take a look at the other 2 top centers we have in Jokinen & Cullen. Jokinen took 1,925 (almost double) and won 898 for a 47% faceoff winning percentage; Cullen took just 694 and won 337 for a 49% faceoff winning percentage. While Cullen & Jokinen had a better percentage, you can see where the discrepancy is and how FL probably won't improve in that department (even if Horton takes over as #3 center). And what's interesting is that Keenan said that Nilson isn't a very good center in the paper today. But his faceoff statistics show a slightly different story. He took 469 and won 219 for a 47% faceoff winning percentage which is the same as Jokinen. Not one regular center for FL had a winning percentage higher than 50%. Now for FL to have improved in this aspect, it would have been beneficial to sign Nieuwendyk as he was 5th in the league in this dept. and took 1,383 faceoffs, winning 809 for a winning percentage of 59%.

Weiss does do a lot of things that do not get noticed by most especially on the defensive end. He is going to turn into a really good player in time I think. Thanks for the info Rich. Can you find out for me how well Nederost has done on faceoffs during his career so far? I am curious to see how well he is at draws.

where would you find the info on faceoffs?
i looked at NHLPA.com, TSN.ca, and ESPN

NHLPA.com has those stats. Search for the particular player. Then choose which season you're looking for (or the past 5 yrs) from the top drop down. Then select the stat type of faceoffs which is, I think, the last one in the bottom drop down. To find out all the stats for the Panthers, click on the link for the statistic you want to see (ie Faceoff Winning Percentage), then just choose instead of entire league, the Panthers. You can also see some of the other stats too besides faceoffs.

Just another interesting tidbit though, Jokinen took the 2nd most faceoffs in the league (Weiss was 60th) and also 2nd in most faceoffs lost while he was 5th in the league in faceoffs won. Weiss was 69th in the league in faceoffs won and 44th in faceoffs lost. Another interesting stat from last season for Weiss, he was 2nd on the team in takeaways with 19 (Kozlov led the team with 26), only had 9 giveaways (20th on the team), blocked 13 shots (good enough for 7th on the team) and this is based on 30 players on the team. Weiss was 35th in the league in takeways and 26th among forwards in the NHL and was 52nd amongst forwards in blocked shots. You're right, its all the things that we don't notice that are being overlooked by us and Keenan but not by Dudley (which to me, is the most important as I think Dudley will be around longer than Keenan).

Nedorost isn't listed on the NHLPA site so I couldn't find his stats on faceoffs. But I'm sure as soon as he's on the roster, they'll update the site to include him and we may get those stats.

He's on the avs roster, took 151, won 67,lost 84 and has a win percentage of 44%

He's on the avs roster, took 151, won 67,lost 84 and has a win percentage of 44%

He did'nt take a lot last season because he was mostly used at LW I think with the Avs. Thanks for the info.