top 3 teams of the west

what would you guys say about them?

dallas
detroit
colorado

Vancouver could very possibly outdo Detroit and Dallas in the standings this year.

I'd say

Colorado
Detroit
Vancouver

i think naslund and bert will start cooling off. and they dont have that great of goaltending though it can hold them over.

dallas:110-120 pts
detroit:110-120 pts
colorado:110-120 pts
vancouver:100-110 pts

Don't forget St Louis people. Pronger is back, Jackman is a year older, and hopefully they wont be forced to go with 17 different goaltenders this season. Ive been hearing good things about Sejna too.

I think that right now they're as good as anyone in the West.

dallas
colorado
anaheim

Anaheim? If they finish ahead of Vancouver, Detroit, and St. Louis, I'll eat my shoes.

Anaheim? If they finish ahead of Vancouver, Detroit, and St. Louis, I'll eat my shoes.

IMO ANA is one of the 3 best teams out west, but will they be one of the top 3 western conference teams in terns of the standings? absolutely not; stl and det play in a ***** division with a bunch of freebie automatic 2 pters. (nsh, chi, clb), col is ridiculously stacked, vcr is carried just enough by marjus/todd to beat up on everyone in the central except col, and dal is the best defensive team outside of nj. so...

w/o standings:
DAL
COL
ANA
VAN
DET
STL

w/ standings:
DET
DAL
COL
STL
VAN
ANA

Don't forget St Louis people. Pronger is back, Jackman is a year older, and hopefully they wont be forced to go with 17 different goaltenders this season. Ive been hearing good things about Sejna too.

I think that right now they're as good as anyone in the West.
Definately agree.

Some of the holes in the lineup are not so apparant as the ones in Det (Lack of a top flight C), Col (goaltending, coaching), Van (2nd line Scoring).

detroit
st.louis
dallas

IMO In terms of predicted standings:
DAL
COL
STL

IMO In terms of best teams in the west as they stand:
DAL
DET
COL

Regular season:

- COL
- DAL
- DET

Playoffs:

- DET
- DAL
- COL

Special teams:

- DAL: Ranked in the top 5 for both categories.
- DET: Ranked in the top 10 for both categories.
- COL: Decent PP should improve, awful PK will get even worse.

Netminding:

- DET: Hasek has his own questionmark these days, but even at 80%, Hasek is among the top. Add Cujo and Legace and don't let your jaw touch the ground.

- DAL: Turco was arguably league's top netminder last season, let him prove so again. Tugnutt, reliable, capable backup who's been a great tutor for, Marty.

- COL: The Avs weakest link, Aebischer is unproven and coming of a rather sub-par season as a backup. Add another unproven one, prospect Phillipe Sauve, and it's the worst by a decent margain.

Forward depth

- DAL: While I feel the Avs top 6 is great, and their 3rd line isn't shabby either, the Stars simply have more toys to play with. They have a more diversed forward crop with no to few weaknesses.

- COL: Arguably the sweetest top 6 assembled during the last decade, a decent 3rd line but a horrible 4th. Lack grit and defensive forwards as well.

- DET: Not as bad as people claim, the Wings have a deep and balanced offense, only without a true first liner. Here's to see if Hull can repeat.

Defensive depth

- DET: They have a sweet defense, but IMO still behind the Sens, moot point anyways. Though some negatives: Chelios is on the decline big time, not as solid and lethal as he was a few seasons ago. Schneider is inconsistant defensively, but a great PP QB, Fisher has to prove his injury didn't affect his game.

- COL: I rate their Defense barely past the Stars, Foote, Morris and Blake is a great top 3, though this too, has it's questionmarks. Can Morris repeat and ignore his hand injury? Was last years Blake the real one? Can he rebound? Foote.. nothing.. a rock. Skoula has to overcome an awful year as well, he just was frustrating bad. Finally Skrastins, solid, but unspectacular, not as good as deVries, but a decent #5. Do lack a #6 IMO.

- DAL: Personally, I'd throw a combo of Zubov and Numminen against any other in the world. Numminen is a qiuet warrior, though he has to show he can adjust playing in a new system, new teammates, while rebounding from a Sub-par season. Zubov.. nothing.. supurb.. I feel he can make some Norris noise this year. Matvichuk was horrendous last season, he came back too early. He has to rebound, and rebound good. Phillipe Boucher, by some pegged as the Stars #1, just needs to stay healthy, that's his biggest flaw. Robidas, Erskine and Sweeney round it out nicely.

not only that, but dallas has lost that whole intimidation factor of the other team rushing the puck.. boucher can throw hits sure.. but he isn't as simply dirty as hatcher, which intimidated teams for years..

numminen/zubov/matvichuk/sweeney/robidas/erskine...

sure, i'll rush it in..

which in turn could limit turco's effectiveness as teams may rush it in more instead of dumping it a majority of the time

Erskine and Robidas don't round it out nicely .

Hell yeah they do, obviously you don't know them very well.

Robidas was better then both Sydor and Matvichuk by a decent margain last season. He isn't a fan favorite for nothing. He's feisty, plays with a lot of heart, possesses a good skillset and is very solid defensively. At 24 or 25 he has room for more improvenment too. I didn't like his name when we got him either, but the dude can play. I also have some quotes from Gretzky (Phoenix wanted him too) and Armstrong where they are simply raving about him but I'm at work..

As for Erskine:

Doug Armstrong - There are opportunities. Opportunities for John Erskine now. John is represented by the same agent as Derian. When we drafted him, [his agent] said 'You've got the next Derian Hatcher.' Maybe I will hold him to that."

He's been one of our top 3 prospects for a few seasons now, time for him to make an impact. He's huge, reliable, and punishing. He will also replace Hatcher's toughness as John drops the mits faster then you can blink.

Also, saying how Turco won't be as good because of Hatcher is either:

A) plain stupid
B) wishful thinking
C) lack of aknowledge.
D) All of the above

I'm leaning towards D..

He had nothing to with Turco's succes. Sure Hatch was a big part of our PK, but with Matvichuk, Boucher, Zubov, Numminen, it won't as hard replacing him. But Tippet is a special team specialist, I'm sure he will find a way.

Detroit's lack of a first line centre is overrated, IMO. It's an issue...but not as big of one as most seem to think. The circus that is their goalie situation is going to hold them back more than the centre issue.

That said:

Alphabetically:
1)Colorado
2)Dallas
3)Detroit

Chronologically:
1)Detroit
2)Dallas
3)Colorado

Latitudinally:
1)Detroit
2)Colorado
3)Dallas

End of the year Standings:
Anyone's guess.

not only that, but dallas has lost that whole intimidation factor of the other team rushing the puck.. boucher can throw hits sure.. but he isn't as simply dirty as hatcher, which intimidated teams for years..

sure, i'll rush it in..

Why would anyone avoid rushing in on Hatcher when you can just skate by the man with ease?

Detroit
Colorado
St Louis

and then
Vancouver

Detroit's lack of a first line centre is overrated, IMO. It's an issue...but not as big of one as most seem to think.

You're darn right about that. Zetterberg has looked like a completely different player this pre-season, he was everywhere in both games that I saw. Between Zetts and Whitney they should easily make up the offense that was lost with Fedorov's departure; the defense may be a different story

Detroit, Colorado, and Dallas are the class of the West, though St. Louis and Vancouver aren't far behind After the Canucks implosion to lose the division last year, I'm not convinced that they are going to be able to compete with Colorado this year either.

Some random thoughts...

1) St. Louis, top tier yet?: I always see St. Louis as right up there with the "big three" and every season I predict a coup of sorts... or at least a great playoff run.. and every season I am wrong. Maybe soon, though. On paper, I think that team is pretty top notch. But on the ice? Something always seem to happen... usually they blame it on the goaltender, but I think there have been other failings less emphasized (perhaps unfairly). If St. Louis doesn't establish themself as an elite team this season, I'm no longer sure it's all Osgood's fault. How many goalies have they tried now?

2) Vancouver: I dunno. Their strength is firepower, but Colorado has them beat on all fronts this season... except maybe goaltending. But does anyone believe Lacroix sits back and does nothing if his goaltender struggles? Hell no. This guy won't hesitate if Aebischer fails.

3) Colorado: Best in the West. I think Colorado is the class of the West, frankly. Goaltending may be the most important position in hockey, but the advantage is there's only one guy you need to change if it doesn't work out.

4) The Trade Deadline: Watch out for it. This is *THE* season of the rent-a-player. Think about it. How many UFA's are hitting the market before the potential lockout? Colorado struggles in goal? They'll have a new 'tender at the deadline. Detroit needs more firepower? I guarantee they pick someone up. Dallas needs more defense? I guarantee they shop for a UFA, if that turns out to be the case.

5) Anaheim: Not elite, but this team is pretty good. There's a lot of negative wishful thinking going on regarding Anaheim this season (they'll be another Carolina, they'll fail, etc.). But, frankly, I don't see it. Look at this team. They are really quite solid, and they will be a nuisance. I guarantee it.

Forward depth

- DAL: While I feel the Avs top 6 is great, and their 3rd line isn't shabby either, the Stars simply have more toys to play with. They have a more diversed forward crop with no to few weaknesses.

- COL: Arguably the sweetest top 6 assembled during the last decade, a decent 3rd line but a horrible 4th. Lack grit and defensive forwards as well.



Dude, how hard is it to find 4th line players? I could urinate three 4th line players for you right now without even breaking a sweat. They'll probably pick up at least 2 at the deadline.

As good as Dallas's forward depth may be, the simple fact reminds that Colorado has 5 superstar players better than all but one player on the Stars (Dallas's only superstar forward, your namesake).

Now, I would easily say Dallas has top 5 forward depth, but Colorado's forward core is like a whole new world of greatness. These 5 guys could be individual stars on any team in the league playing 20+ minutes a game. Their forward core is simply head and shoulders above anyone elses.

Colorado's bottom lines are looking very good this year in my opinion. THey finally have a problem deciding who to cut at camp, and are very tough :dunno: . PL did a good job of facelifting these lines this off-season and honestly I think the Avs only potential weakness is goaltending. If preseason is any answer, Aeb has been playing spectacular.

As for Dallas.......hey I think they have it all. I think Dallas matches up the best against all of the top tier teams, however, that does not guarantee they will win *last year is my example...i felt like they easily had the best team out there and truly got under the skin of Giguere but lost it due to lack of discipline*.

Without Hatcher the Stars' penalty kill gets worse and so does Turco's stats . Nobody to clear out the front of the net , maybe Boucher but not likely .

Turco won't match last year's performace especially without Hatcher .

Incase you had not noticed, Hatcher did not do such a great job clearing out the net this past season, much less the previous one.

As for the Robidas comment. I'd put him up against any 5th/6th D-man in the league. He may be small, but the lil guy has balls the size of Texas and is tough as nails. He shrugs off hits from the big brutes of the league like water off a ducks back.

Erskine is a big question mark. He is a bad passer, poor defensive awarness, but he is as big as a house. I predict he either gets traded or placed on waivers before the end of November.

1. Colorado - 114 pts
2. Dallas - 109 pts
3. Detroit - 104 pts

I think a lot of people out there are also forgetting Matvichuk.

The guy had a bad year and broke his leg. He suffered from being the odd man out on the 3rd pairing a lot of the time.

He can be a physical monster. Just ask Hedjuk and Forsberg. Or talk to Mellanby, I'm sure he would have the usual kind things to say about him.

The rush might become more effective against Dallas, but Matty, Boucher, and even little Robidas can stand people up and lay them out at the blueline.

Dude, how hard is it to find 4th line players? I could urinate three 4th line players for you right now without even breaking a sweat. They'll probably pick up at least 2 at the deadline.

Wow.. I'm shocked to the degree how you underrestime the importance of a good fourth line, especially for a Cup contender.

I said the Stars forwards were more balanced, deeper and more complete. Every fool knows the Avs top 6 is golden, and you never heard me saying the Stars have a better one.

I woulkd have to say that
1.Colorado
2.Vancouver
3. Minnesota
4. Anehiem

I woulkd have to say that
1.Colorado
2.Vancouver
3. Minnesota
4. Anehiem

so these make up the bottom half of the playoff chart ? :dunno:

Well, seeing as Dallas and Colorado are miles ahead of everybody, the 3rd team is rather moot, although I'd say that is St. Louis, with teams like Detroit, Vancouver and LA being a step below.

Wow.. I'm shocked to the degree how you underrestime the importance of a good fourth line, especially for a Cup contender.

I said the Stars forwards were more balanced, deeper and more complete. Every fool knows the Avs top 6 is golden, and you never heard me saying the Stars have a better one.

Good forth line veterans are avaliable all over the league at mid season till the trade deadline. It does not take much to aquire them and do you honestly think a GM of PL's calibre is going to set by and not improve his 4th line if thats a problem?

Good forth line veterans are avaliable all over the league at mid season till the trade deadline. It does not take much to aquire them and do you honestly think a GM of PL's calibre is going to set by and not improve his 4th line if thats a problem?

Not you to.. All I said is that the Stars 4th line is superior towards the mediocre 4th line of the Avs. And untill they've traded for help, it ain't much special. I feel pretty high on last line depth, not sure about you, but IMO it's a huge bonus to have in the playoffs.

Oh yeah. Depth is key. Just look at Dallas against Anaheim and even Edmonton. Without Guerin and Turgeon players like Morrow, Arnott, YOung, Barnes, and Sydor were able to step up against Edmonton.

Kapanen was able to step up Huge and co-lead the team in points against Anaheim.

I'd expect at least one and probably 2 of Colorado's superstars to have a pretty sub-par season though.

I'd expect at least one and probably 2 of Colorado's superstars to have a pretty sub-par season though.

Why do you expect that? And what would you consider 'sub-par'? 80 pts? Less?

Why do you expect that? And what would you consider 'sub-par'? 80 pts? Less?

Gee.. icetime perhaps?

I say 2 or 3 of them won't reach higher then 60..

Why do you expect that? And what would you consider 'sub-par'? 80 pts? Less?

Someone always gets shafted with less ice time.

I'd expect the guys who get less to only score around 50 points or so.

i'm guessin the 4th line gets 5 - 7 mins tops for the Avs.

the third line has Bataglia and Nikolishin on it and well be getting most of the top two lines left overs.

FYI, I did not create the thread.. but I'm sure that makes things a lot less fun for you..

Oh Diehard... love you..

Nice to see you figured out how to use the 'ignore' option like you claimed :rolleyes:

Avs clearly have the best skaters, they only have a problem in goal.

I fully expect Avs to have good goalie before the play-offs start, either Sauve or Aebischer will rise to the occasion or Lacroix makes a move.

Btw, it's especially hilarious when you claim that Aebischer had a sub-par year despite having a .916 save-%... :joker:

I often hit "un-ignore" if I want a good laugh, like this time..

Colorado and Dallas are definately way out ahead of the rest of the field. As for who's better? That's why they play the games.

As far as Hatcher is concerned, I think Dallas will play much better without him this year.

Colorado and Dallas are definately way out ahead of the rest of the field.

I guess we shouldn't have expected any other response from someone who calls himself "Colorado_Starsfan".

BTW, no. Colorado is far from being ahead of anyone with their goaltending.

I guess we shouldn't have expected any other response from someone who calls himself "Colorado_Starsfan".

BTW, no. Colorado is far from being ahead of anyone with their goaltending.

Colorado's goaltending is better than many would think. It's not like the Blue's have goaltending either, is it? ;)

BTW, the Stars are the deepest team in the West. Colorado is just the most explosive.

Someone always gets shafted with less ice time.

I'd expect the guys who get less to only score around 50 points or so.

When it comes to ice time, the Avs top two lines generally get around 20 minutes, the third line gets around 15, and the 4th line gets the remaining 5. That has been pretty constant since the Avs moved to Denver no matter who was the coach.

Last year, Kariya averaged 20:17 minutes and Selanne averaged 19:13. That fits into the Avs norm perfectly. You can make the argument that they will each lose a little power play time...but I don’t think that will be enough to knock them down to 50 points.

Injuries could do it, of course.

Gee.. icetime perhaps?

I say 2 or 3 of them won't reach higher then 60..

Thank you for your thoughtful reply It isn’t quite worthy of the ‘Ignore’ button yet, but I am sure you can get there if you keep on trying.

Don't forget St Louis people. Pronger is back, Jackman is a year older, and hopefully they wont be forced to go with 17 different goaltenders this season. Ive been hearing good things about Sejna too.

I think that right now they're as good as anyone in the West.

Your right but they have a questionable goaltending. If the Blues made a move for Joseph then I would worry.

Colorado
Detriot
Dallas

Don't forget St Louis people. Pronger is back, Jackman is a year older, and hopefully they wont be forced to go with 17 different goaltenders this season. Ive been hearing good things about Sejna too.

I think that right now they're as good as anyone in the West.
Great point....most everyone is picking the same group of 4; Vancouver, Detroit, Dallas and Colorado but St.Louis has the roster to finish first in the East and as well first OVERALL in the NHL....I also think Pronger will have a HUGE year PLUS giving up the "C" to Macinnis will allow for him to concentrate solely on playing hockey.

Great point....most everyone is picking the same group of 4; Vancouver, Detroit, Dallas and Colorado but St.Louis has the roster to finish first in the East and as well first OVERALL in the NHL....I also think Pronger will have a HUGE year PLUS giving up the "C" to Macinnis will allow for him to concentrate solely on playing hockey.[/COLOR]

Here!! Here!! :handclap:

regular season:

1 Dallas
2 Detroit
3 Colorado

playoffs:

1 Detroit
2 Dallas
3 Anahiem