Horton, Nedorost, Stewart, Mezei???

BlackJack21
09-29-2003, 01:25 PM
What about those guys?

Can you tell me what spot they could filled (if they make the team) and how they are looking based on what you have seen through training camp?

Wil they have some PP or PK time?

BJ21

Coolburn
09-29-2003, 01:53 PM
If Horton and/or Stewart make the team, they'll probably receive a decent about of time as 3rd liners and then some PP & PK time based on their willingness to hit and drive to the net. Nedorost is stilll healing from the offseason shoulder surgery but is expected to take over the 2nd line center job relatively soon. Mezei has looked pretty good so far and should be a top4 guy this yr as he's been playing something like 22 mins/game in preseason.

BlackJack21
09-29-2003, 02:16 PM
If Horton and/or Stewart make the team, they'll probably receive a decent about of time as 3rd liners and then some PP & PK time based on their willingness to hit and drive to the net. Nedorost is stilll healing from the offseason shoulder surgery but is expected to take over the 2nd line center job relatively soon. Mezei has looked pretty good so far and should be a top4 guy this yr as he's been playing something like 22 mins/game in preseason.

Thanks a lot!!

What are the chances for Stewart and Horton?

50% for horton and 25% for Sewart would be a good evaluation?

BJ21

Jeff Shafer
09-29-2003, 02:23 PM
Thanks a lot!!

What are the chances for Stewart and Horton?

50% for horton and 25% for Sewart would be a good evaluation?

BJ21

maybe more like 75% for Horton if Keenan gets his way.
Stewart might be around 25%

Dave D
09-29-2003, 02:38 PM
maybe more like 75% for Horton if Keenan gets his way.
Stewart might be around 25%


More like Horton 100% and Stewart 25%. Horton will be signed for sure. There is no value in sending him back to junior, he brings a lot to this team and both Keenan and Dudley will pursuade the owner to loosen the purse strings. Horton is your 3rd line center to start the 2003-2004 season IMO. I think in any other year - a year without the CBA - Horton would have been signed long time ago, the only reason I see the Panthers waiting to the 11th hour to sign him is because I'm not sure they want to be the ones to set the bar for the other teams who are keeping 2003 Draftees at camp, ie Staal, Fleury, Burns and alike.

Heimy
09-29-2003, 05:04 PM
I wouldn't say 100% Dave D. I would if it was based strictly on performance but in truth it'll depend on whether Bobby Orr (Horton's agent) will make some financial concessions.

Dave D
09-29-2003, 06:05 PM
I wouldn't say 100% Dave D. I would if it was based strictly on performance but in truth it'll depend on whether Bobby Orr (Horton's agent) will make some financial concessions.

I think both parties will make the necessary concessions, that's why I say Horton is a slam dunk for the Panthers.

Clash*
09-29-2003, 06:57 PM
I think both parties will make the necessary concessions, that's why I say Horton is a slam dunk for the Panthers.
Bobby Orr isn't known as bein the easiest agent to deal with, so its a lot less than 100%. Between Cohen and Orr wantin his cut, there's some money hungry people lookin across the table at the wrong faces.

Coolburn
09-30-2003, 02:56 AM
I won't look at the financial side of the situation right now. But its now been documented several times that Horton does not have the reaction time down for shooting the puck in the NHL, tries to split 2 defenders and he got dominated by the Lightning in the faceoff circle. He can take all these things and use them back in the OHL if he is sent back to juniors. So saying that there is no value in sending him back is incorrect. He has things that he could improve on and while it would better suit him to be in the AHL, it isn't allowed by the rules. And I'm worried that when Keenan isn't enamored with him, what will happen (knowing Keenan, its bound to happen at some point).

Chaos2k7
09-30-2003, 04:09 AM
I won't look at the financial side of the situation right now. But its now been documented several times that Horton does not have the reaction time down for shooting the puck in the NHL, tries to split 2 defenders and he got dominated by the Lightning in the faceoff circle. He can take all these things and use them back in the OHL if he is sent back to juniors. So saying that there is no value in sending him back is incorrect. He has things that he could improve on and while it would better suit him to be in the AHL, it isn't allowed by the rules. And I'm worried that when Keenan isn't enamored with him, what will happen (knowing Keenan, its bound to happen at some point).


Come on.... :rolleyes:

He said in practise that he tried to split two defenders and he has also been one of our best faceoff winners in the whole camp. So if he got smoked the rest of the team did as well. As for shooting the puck that comes with experience and if he can average a point per game even when his offensive timing isn't down, imagine what he can do after a full year with his linemates. Those are all minor problems that come with experience. Their is nothing better for him but to be in the NHL.

:rolly:

Rattrick
09-30-2003, 07:45 AM
Come on, don't forget that this is preseason. Novo led the team in scoring a few years back, but that doesn't ever mean anything.

These words are coming from a believer ;), but we all need to take a step back and think realistically.

PanthersRule96
09-30-2003, 10:54 AM
We all have to realize that then, Novo was a top prospect and was a pure scorer. Now, he's more of a checking player and more defensive. Horton will win all of the faceoffs in the ohl and will try to split defenders so sending him back just will make him develop bad habits. He looked fantastic with Jokinen and Kozlov. I think Hoglund will make the team but IMO should play the 3rd line. I hope Bednar will make it and Hagman has proven his case of late and really turned it on these last 2 games. If Horton is sent down, then we would be weak at center on Opening night without Nedorost, or Weiss.
Jokinen
Cullen
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If he is sent down though, Weiss may play until Nedorost comes back. BTW, do we have to pay Weiss full salary even if he plays in the Minors?

And, isn't the deadline to have signed Taticek Sept. 28? Hopefully he'll play in the A.

PanthersRule96
09-30-2003, 10:57 AM
We all have to realize that then, Novo was a top prospect and was a pure scorer. Now, he's more of a checking player and more defensive. Horton will win all of the faceoffs in the ohl and will try to split defenders so sending him back just will make him develop bad habits. He looked fantastic with Jokinen and Kozlov. I think Hoglund will make the team but IMO should play the 3rd line. I hope Bednar will make it and Hagman has proven his case of late and really turned it on these last 2 games. If Horton is sent down, then we would be weak at center on Opening night without Nedorost, or Weiss.
Jokinen
Cullen
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If he is sent down though, Weiss may play until Nedorost comes back. BTW, do we have to pay Weiss full salary even if he plays in the Minors?

And, isn't the deadline to have signed Taticek Sept. 28? Hopefully he'll play in the A.
In talking about contracts, the panthers should make an offer if he deserves it and say "Either sign and make a couple million or go back to junior and make less each month than you would in a week at a checkers drive thru." I'm sure any NHL player would rather make millions especially a prospect who has never made 1/20 th of that money in his life.

sting_fan
09-30-2003, 11:30 AM
Come on, don't forget that this is preseason. Novo led the team in scoring a few years back, but that doesn't ever mean anything.

Novoseltev came out of junior as a "poor man's Bure". The Panthers insisted he learn the defensive side of the game. He could have put up 15 goals in preseason and still would have received a one-way ticket to Louisville. In fact, I believe he led the Panthers with 6 goals that preseason. Trying to turn Novoseltsev into Michael Peca, IMHO, was a huge mistake on the Panthers part, but that's a whole different thread. :)

Don't fool yourselves. If the Panthers coach was someone other then Mike Keenan, there likely wouldn't be a discussion about Horton suiting up for the Panthers. He needs time in junior. His performance in the second half of last season exemplifies why.

Dave D
09-30-2003, 11:38 AM
Don't fool yourselves. If the Panthers coach was someone other then Mike Keenan, there likely wouldn't be a discussion about Horton suiting up for the Panthers. He needs time in junior. His performance in the second half of last season exemplifies why.

IMO his play in last years OHL playoffs and this pre-season suggest Junior is a waste of time for him in comparison to the potential growth and developmetn value of being with the big club.

Remax
09-30-2003, 04:01 PM
I agree that Horton should be keep on the panthers. Just take a look at his career OHL stats:
GP 393 G 219 A 231 Pts450 +/- 21 PIM 615 PointsPG 66 SHG 15 PPG 1.15 PIMPG 1.56.

That is a set of pretty good stats I would say. Anyone who averages over a point per game and almost as many goals and assists has a great scoring and play making touch. That is also while averaging over one and a hlf penalty minutes per game. And just look at his special teams goals, 15 goals while down atleast a man, and 66 while up, and that doesn't even include assists.

2003 Playoffs

GP 13 G 9 A 6 Pts 15 +/- 2 PIM 10 PPG 2 SHG 0 PointsPG 1.15 PIMPG 0.77.

I am from Oshawa, and was able to see most of the Generals games last year, and I keep hearing people say that he wasn't the same player after the injury as he was before, that is true, he wasn't because before the injury he was avgeraging just over 2 points per game (something like 2.06) and after he was averaging almost 1.5 ppg, to me that doesn't look like that bad of a drop, still seems pretty remarkable. I think if you send him down to the OHL not only will it hurt his confidence, but it also gives him more opportunity to get injured. Players in the NHL have way more respect for the opposition than the guys do in the O. That was shown when Nathan's jaw was broken last year, I was at the game and he and Stewart were standing there holding on to eachother during a scuffle and it didn't seem like they were going to do anything until Stewart started to unload on Nathan's face, and before Nathan could get 2 punches in Stewart landed about 5 or 6 directly onto his face, so he really didn't have much of a chance. Also with a #3 pick playing people will try to go after him and take him out so that they get a name as being the person how took him out for a month or however long it will be.

Remax
10-01-2003, 12:48 PM
Hello Remax I would really like to know where you got those stats for Hortons OHL Career Stats.

Here are Nathan Horton's REAL OHL Career Stats Regular Season and Playoffs

GP 136 G 74 A 79 Pts 153 PIM 215

So as you can see these numbers are a little off from you

GP 393 G 219 A 231 Pts 450 PIM 615

Did these stats not look a little off when you said you are from Oshawa and you should know that Horton only played 2 seasons in the OHL and according to your stats he would have to play 196 games a season and that including his jaw injury.

Horton is not ready for the NHL

Now that I look at them I see that they are wrong but I was in a hurry when I put them down, but if you go to www.ontariohockeyleague.com and click on stats, then individual stats, then career, and then oshawa generals, you will see where I got the stats.

shazata69
10-02-2003, 10:54 AM
But you know thats what they said about Doan and Brewer and all they did was rot on the bench for a few years and still and probably won't reach their potential. Nothign wrong with going back to junior, let them go back and play for Team Canada at the WJC and let them learn. Whats the stinkin rush all the time.

PanthersRule96
10-02-2003, 11:08 AM
Brewer played in the olympics and is one of the better defensmen in the league. Doan has developed into a power forward and a reliable source for goals. Horton is similar to Doan and Thornton only IMO he could provide an impact now. Weiss didn't score a year or two ago in the preseason much and Horton is at 18. He is one of those guys that can jump right in.

Wingnut31
10-04-2003, 01:22 PM
Try here if you want a good source for stats.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/players.html