Possible Lineups

orcatown
09-30-2003, 12:03 AM
The emergence of Kesler and, to a lesser extent, King creates some interesting possible lineups for the Canucks. Here's some possibilities I can see:

Seemingly Set Lineup

WCE
Sedins & Arvedsson
Linden - Chub. - Cooke
May - Lindgren - Ruutu/Langdon

Variations

1. Arvedsson goes with Naslund and Mo, and Bertuzzi with the twins. Lower lines stay as above. Dangerous to break up WCE but might better distribute scoring. Also gets better defensive presence on both of the lines.

2. King goes with the twins and Arvedsson goes with May and Lindgren
Ruutu sits or spots in where needed. If King can handle this I see this as maybe the best combination. I think the line of May, Lindgren and Arvedsson would give you a great checking line. May switches to right wing.

3. Third line becomes Linden - Kesler - Cooke (Linden takes face-offs) and 4th line May - Chubarov - Ruutu. Lindgren sits or possibly subs for Ruutu. Upper lines stay the as above.

NFITO
09-30-2003, 07:11 AM
No doubt that Crow has lots of options to work with... will be interesting to see if he does break up the WCE early in the season - since now is the best time to experiment with lineup changes, and the quicker they get to the long term lineup the better for team chemistry..

this is what I would try:

Cooke - Morrison - Naslund:

I like the intangibles this line could present. I have faith (and really that's all we have with him at this point since he's never proven to play on the top line) that Cooke can handle a top line role and fit in well with Naslund, and especially Morrison, who he's played well with in the past.

Sedin - Sedin - Bertuzzi:

We've seen this line work before, and with the Sedins *hopefully* another step close to being the players we need them to be, this could be one of the better 2nd lines in the league.... any 2nd line with Bertuzzi is already going to be a threat - with Daniel getting closer to his rookie season 20 goal form, and Henrik continuing his improved play, which he has over the years, this could be the best 2nd line the Canucks have had since the early 90s.

I also think that the top 6 like this would be a nightmare to defend against... do teams put their best pair against Naslund, or Bertuzzi?

Arvedson - Chubarov - Linden:

IMO the makings of one of the best 3rd line - checking units - in the league... they have the ability to score goals - as good as any 3rd line in the league, and have 3 above average defenders there.

May - Lindgren - Ruutu:

I don't think that Ruutu should lose his spot this season. He should be starting on the 4th line. We need some serious sandpaper in our lineup after the top 3 lines, and this one gives us exactly what we need. Look for May also to rebound after a less than average season filled with injuries from start to finish. I think we will see a better May, and a breakout from Ruutu (a breakout on par with that of a top end 4th liner)... Lindgren should be his usual dependable self.

extras:

Langdon, rookie*

If Keane is signed that he fills in for that *rookie* spot and comes in and out of the lineup as needed.... IMO Langdon is just a waste of space... I would rather have Keane in that 13th spot and use one spot to rotate rookies playing well in Manitoba and give them a chance with the big club.

There is no way we go through a season without injuries, so guys like Kesler, King, Reid and Bouck should see game action this season... the question is really how much? Reid I think stands the best chance to be called up, mainly because Lindgren hasn't been the healthiest player the last couple years, and he could step into the center spot there... we're pretty set on the wings, especially on the top 3 lines, so seeing King here might not happen much, unless, like last year, we see some injuries there on the wing... Kesler and Bouck are more suited than King to play a 4th line role, and that's why I could see them getting more action in than King.

Personally, I really like our forward lines.... we're deeper there than we have been in many seasons... our 2nd line has good potential, and in their 4th seasons, I have faith that we will start seeing some more of that potential now.

The defense though is still stronger and deeper overall IMO, as a group, than the forwards.

I don't see us having any question marks on defense anymore.

The biggest worry in the past was not enough toughness back there, but with Allen another year developed, and Slegr, who isn't the toughest guy, but is a strong presense back there, we're that much better.

Ohlund - Jovo:

Crow has been experimenting with these two together, and it's a pairing I have been excited about seeing for a while now... personally, I expected them to be another year away from pairing these two together, but Crow obviously thinks the time is now.... they compliment each other well, when it comes to intangibles... the most dependable defender we have is Ohlund, and pairing him with Jovo makes sense.

Malik - Sopel:

this is a tough one to gauge.... could be Malik and Salo instead, but Malik proved last season that he's dependable enough to play with an erratic and adventurous Jovo last season, and helped turn him into a major + player... he could do the same for Sopel this year... Sopel is all about offense, Malik is all about defense (despite his gretzkesque moves at times)... the fit seems perfect for me...

Allen - Salo:

another reason why I would pair Malik with Sopel is that IMO Allen needs someone more stable to play with than Sopel.... Salo has been everything we'd want at both ends, but most of all he showed tons of poise last year and a veteran savvy that we need back there (especially now with Baron gone)... Allen could learn alot about poise and responsibility form Salo and be a much better player playing with him... Allen is also pretty good defensively, freeing up Salo to open up his offense like he did last season playing with Baron.

Slegr:

IMO he should start as the #7, because Allen's time is now and he is worth a lot more to the club long term than Slegr is.... but he gets every chance to take the #6 spot from Allen through the season.

In the end, it shouldn't be too much of a concern... there will be injuries, like up front, and Slegr and Allen will both get lots of games in... both should be in around 65 games each this season.

Goaltending is set... Cloutier starts, and Crow gives Hedberg every opportunity to take over if he falters... I don't see Hedberg taking Clouts job during the season... with all the Cloutier bashing here, it's hard to forget the guy has been absolutely great in the regular season, and it's only after his injuries that he's lost that edge... hopefully this season his back to backs are reduced, and his work load in general... I'm excited to see what a 100% healthy Cloutier can do this season in the playoffs.

SedinFan*
09-30-2003, 07:13 AM
Here's how I think it will all work out.

Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi
Sedin-Sedin-King
Cooke-Chubarov-Linden
Arvedson-Lindgren-May

Jovo-Ohlund
Salo-Malik
Sopel-Allen

Cloutier
Hedberg

monster_bertuzzi
09-30-2003, 07:59 AM
Here's how I think it will all work out.

Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi
Sedin-Sedin-King
Cooke-Chubarov-Linden
Arvedson-Lindgren-May

Jovo-Ohlund
Salo-Malik
Sopel-Allen

Cloutier
Hedberg

Theres no way Arvedson gets 4th line minutes playing with Lindgren and May.

Peter Griffin
09-30-2003, 08:10 AM
Here's how I see the season starting off:

Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi
D.Sedin/Arvedson-H.Sedin-Arvedson/D.Sedin
Cooke-Chubarov-Linden
Ruutu-Lindgren-May

scratches:

Langdon, Keane(I think he'll be signed)


Ohlund-Jovo
Malik-Sopel
Allen-Salo

Scratches:

Slegr

Cloutier
Hedberg

I think that Crawford will start the season trying out the Sedins with Arvedson. If that fails, Arvie or Cooke could be moved to the top line and Bertuzzi brought down to the play with the Sedins, or Linden can be bumped up to play with the twins. If Lindgren or Ruutu is taken in the waiver draft, then I think that Kesler will start the season with the Canucks in a 3rd/4th line role. I think Keane will be signed and put in as the 13th forward, who can be an injury fill-in and provide leadership.

SedinFan*
09-30-2003, 08:54 AM
Theres no way Arvedson gets 4th line minutes playing with Lindgren and May.

He wont get 4th line minutes, because he'll be on the number 1 penalty kill unit. With that amount of penalties the Canucks take, he should be up around 14-15 minutes per game.

Mizral
09-30-2003, 09:39 AM
Agreed with Peter Griffin.

Naslund/Morrison/Bertuzzi
Sedin/Sedin/Arvedson
Cooke/Chubarov/Linden
Ruutu/Lindgren/May

Looks all but in the bag, other than the fact that Daniel could swap with Arvedson.

Langdon is the 13th forward, I do not think Keane will sign, however.

Ohlund/Sopel
Malik/Jovanovski
Allen/Salo still seems more likely to me, but,

Ohlund/Jovanovski
Malik/Sopel
Allen/Salo makes sense

I also wouldn't mind:

Ohlund/Jovanovski
Malik/Salo
Slegr/Sopel

Rageinthecage
09-30-2003, 11:07 AM
this is what I would try:

Cooke - Morrison - Naslund:

I like the intangibles this line could present. I have faith (and really that's all we have with him at this point since he's never proven to play on the top line) that Cooke can handle a top line role and fit in well with Naslund, and especially Morrison, who he's played well with in the past.




This is an interesting combination. Crawford will likely begin the year keeping the WCE together, but this is a very realistic an option for a line if Crawford needs to do some line juggling. Not sure how well Naslund plays the right side, but it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Maybe Cooke can try the right side as well.

Anyways, Cooke has always had good chemistry on a speed line with Morrison (Schaefer, Muckalt, Druken being other previous linemates). Cooke would create some space with his tenacious forechecking for Naslund and Morrison to work with. The speed of these three players is comparable and complementary. Cooke is a significant upgrade over Klatt, who often rode shotgun on the top line a few years back (Cassels, Naslund, Klatt). This idea could potentially work well. The WCE still operate together on the PP (where they get most of their points anyways) and Bertuzzi double shifts in big games. The Sedins and Bert experiment imo, should become a more permanent line this year. But I'm not the coach.

NFITO
09-30-2003, 11:17 AM
This is an interesting combination. Crawford will likely begin the year keeping the WCE together, but this is a very realistic an option for a line if Crawford needs to do some line juggling. Not sure how well Naslund plays the right side, but it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Maybe Cooke can try the right side as well.

Anyways, Cooke has always had good chemistry on a speed line with Morrison (Schaefer, Muckalt, Druken being other previous linemates). Cooke would create some space with his tenacious forechecking for Naslund and Morrison to work with. The speed of these three players is comparable and complementary. Cooke is a significant upgrade over Klatt, who often rode shotgun on the top line a few years back (Cassels, Naslund, Klatt). This idea could potentially work well. The WCE still operate together on the PP (where they get most of their points anyways) and Bertuzzi double shifts in big games. The Sedins and Bert experiment imo, should become a more permanent line this year. But I'm not the coach.

this was my thinking too... The 3rd guy on the top line needs to be there to create room - which is something Bertuzzi is great at, but something that Cooke could do well too... Naslund still has a very solid offensive player in Morrison to work with, and Cooke is as good as anyone on our team at crashing to the net.

Naslund also has played the right side before... he started his career there, and was there for several years... he moved to the left side just a few seasons ago, but his first real breakout season was as a right winger... plus he's a natural on the right half boards as well - seems to love playing there.

as you mentioned the WCE would be together on the PP - which is where they did the majority of their damage anyways...

another thing is that with Cooke on the top unit, and Bert playing with the Sedins, neither line becomes a defensive liability - a key point IMO.... I think that Morrison will take it up another notch if he's got someone like Cooke to be defensively responsible to play with (while still having Naslund to create offense with)... the Sedins we all know are solid defensively too.

our biggest problem last season was total team defensive coverage... the defense got involved with the offense too much, while the top line, who we rely on more than any team relies on their top line, was basically just Morrison and a couple of dead weights defensively.... Morrison was awesome defensively, but imagine what he can do offensively if he's not burdened as much with covering for both Naslund and Bertuzzi by himself?

Rageinthecage
09-30-2003, 11:42 AM
another thing is that with Cooke on the top unit, and Bert playing with the Sedins, neither line becomes a defensive liability - a key point IMO.... I think that Morrison will take it up another notch if he's got someone like Cooke to be defensively responsible to play with (while still having Naslund to create offense with)... the Sedins we all know are solid defensively too.

our biggest problem last season was total team defensive coverage... the defense got involved with the offense too much, while the top line, who we rely on more than any team relies on their top line, was basically just Morrison and a couple of dead weights defensively.... Morrison was awesome defensively, but imagine what he can do offensively if he's not burdened as much with covering for both Naslund and Bertuzzi by himself?

Excellent point. Unless they prove otherwise this year, Naslund and Bertuzzi together on a line is just as dangerous in our own zone as in the offensive zone. The proof is in the plus/minus. There should be no way whatsoever that your top two snipers on one of the strongest clubs in the league finish with only +6(Naslund) and +2(Bertuzzi). That's horrible five on five play for a couple of elite players.

Which brings up another point. How did the WCE actually rank among the top lines in the NHL five on five? Their powerplay performance may be beyond exceptional, and hopefully they can maintain that performance in 03-04, but this line should perhaps be split up (as you suggest) for five on five play. Besides, it's definitely time to give the twins a regular scoring option on the wing if we realistically expect a significant increase in production from them. Arvedson is not the answer. Linden won't be for any length of time. King eventually perhaps, but not yet. Not to mention all the top six forward trade speculation has been put on the back burner until later in the season. Bert has great chemistry with Daniel and Henrik, so make it permanent.

maruk14
09-30-2003, 02:16 PM
I am with both you guys on this one, and I like Cooke playing with Naslund and Morrison. It is something that is at least worth exploring, and could push Cooke into the upper 50's in points and Selke consideration.

I have been a big proponent of breaking up the big line 5 on 5. They will still get loads of PP time together, but they are just to big of a liability defensively when Bert and Naslund are on the ice at the same time even strength. Playing them with more defensively responsible players and allowing them to each carry a line offensively will make us a better team overall, IMO.

We had another thread on this topic as well, here ....

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=10530

kmad
09-30-2003, 03:27 PM
Linden could go with the Sedins, and Arvedson with Cooke and Chubarov

C'nuckleHead
09-30-2003, 06:16 PM
Linden could go with the Sedins, and Arvedson with Cooke and Chubarov

Most likely.

SedinFan*
09-30-2003, 06:47 PM
Cloutier
Hedberg

I made a mistake.

Hedberg
Cloutier

Hi-wayman
09-30-2003, 07:37 PM
My lineup is:

Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi
Sedin-Sedin-King
Cooke-Chubarov-Arvedson
May-Linden-Ruutu/Keane

Ohlund-Sopel
Malik-Jovo
Allen-Salo

Cloutier
Hedberg
I hate dropping Linden to the 4th line, but Chubarov has the speed to keep up with Cooke & Arvedson, while May & Ruuutu or Keane would complement Linden. The 3rd & 4th lines would be great defensively, but would still have the ability to score. Personally I find it impossible to keep King off the same line as the Sedins. They gel so well together.

Ironchef Chris Wok*
09-30-2003, 09:00 PM
One small note...

What do you guys prefer using Trevor Linden as? Center or winger?

If he plays w/ a natural center like Chubarov, I prefer him go back to the wing. But I think he's the best faceoff guy on the Nucks... so if in the late stages of the game, where we have to "shut down" the other team... Maybe we shoudl have Linden take the faceoffs instead.

Broda
09-30-2003, 10:45 PM
All i know is i love the idea of two offensive lines...
Cooke Mo Nazzy
Sedin Sedin Bert
thats sounds awsome... because i think it was rage in the cage saying that they are just as scary in there own zone to the team. WCE i mean...
I just think these top two would be excellent and then probably
Arvy Chubs Linden
Ruutu Lindgren May

Cloutier will be the starter for sure.. he has looked solid in the preseason and he has been an awsome regular season goalie for us... with the addition of hedberg the nucks will have a go to backup/ possible starter if Clouts doesn't shine...
I would just really like to see the nucks have less oppertunities in there zone this year... thats why clouts was lit up in the playoffs... so the added defensive help of Cooke on the first line seems like a great idea....
But then i was just thinking... what about Linden and Cooke switching and Nazzy staying on the LW... this could work too, IMO because Linden knows how to score goals last year he tore it up at one point... he just isn't counted on for offense that much anymore... either one would create offense... Maybe with Cookes younger body he might be better for goign to the net though... we don't want our former captain going down half way throught the season... Either one could defend nazzy aswell as Bert did too when times were tough...
Well i know im so back and fourth and i appologize for that :)

Hi-wayman
10-01-2003, 07:19 AM
One small note...

What do you guys prefer using Trevor Linden as? Center or winger?

If he plays w/ a natural center like Chubarov, I prefer him go back to the wing. But I think he's the best faceoff guy on the Nucks... so if in the late stages of the game, where we have to "shut down" the other team... Maybe we shoudl have Linden take the faceoffs instead.

I totally agree with you about Linden. I personally would prefer him as a RW on the 2nd or 3rd line, but we also have some pretty good prospects that are showing they can play those spots too. It's pretty awesome to think the team is balanced enough that a player like Linden, who has the skill to play even on the 1st line if needed & who is so important to the character of the team, may end up on the 4th line just because that is the only line that has room for him. The team has to renew the team spirit again this season to continue the success the team had last year, but there is no indication that it cannot.

I was equally amazed that Edmonton may consider trading Mike Comrie, a player I really like, & for the life of me I couldn't figure out where a player like Comrie would fit into the Canucks lineup that players like Chubarov, Reid, King or Kesler couldn't fill just as well.

Burke's Evil Spirit
10-01-2003, 07:21 AM
Linden's defensive game suffers when he plays center, which makes me want to play him on the wing.

Peter Griffin
10-01-2003, 08:09 AM
If he plays w/ a natural center like Chubarov, I prefer him go back to the wing. But I think he's the best faceoff guy on the Nucks... so if in the late stages of the game, where we have to "shut down" the other team... Maybe we shoudl have Linden take the faceoffs instead.

Linden has done that the majority of his career, play on the wing and then move in to take the important face-offs. He did this many, many times last year, it isn't going to change.

ginner classic
10-01-2003, 10:07 AM
My Choice....


Sedin Morrison Naslund
Arvedson Sedin Bertuzzi
Cooke Linden King
May Chubarov Ruutu

Lindgren Langdon Spares

I think Daniel Henrik and Morrison would all benefit by this kind of move. The WCE was brutal in thair own zone last year and Morrison did not shoot the puck enough. Having Sedin up there in a defensive/playmaking role would be ideal. Arvedson showed well with Bertuzzi in the game I went to Vs. Calgary. Linden at centre give us the size we have been lacking up the middle and a chance to mentor King while Cooke creates havoc on the FC. Chubarov, Ruutu and May would be a miserable line to play against.

Malik Jovo
Ohlund Slegr
Allen Salo

Sopel traded or playing again with Ohlund and Slegr and Allen take turns sitting out. Baumer definately gets my vote for #7 if Sopel is traded as he is a very solid player in my opinion and could develop some nice chemistry with both Ohlund and Malik depending on Crawford's whims.

I would start the season with Sopel and Ohlund together and see how King and Reid progress. If they do not look like they are an answer for the scoring problem at this point I would look at packaging some combo of Umberger, Federov, Sopel and/or Chubarov for help up front. I think Kesler is best suited for the AHL at this point but one to watch. I like the idea of going after Sarich from TB, Boynton with Boston (tough now that he is signed), Beech from Pittsburgh in combination with a Ricci/Chubarov trade, or Bell in Chicago My dream world....

Sedin Morrison Naslund
Arvedson Sedin Bertuzzi
Cooke Ricci Linden
May Beech Ruutu

Lindgren, King, Shvidki Spares


Malik Jovo
Ohlund Sarich (rhs)
Allen Salo (rhs)

Slegr and Baumer (rhs) spares.

Umberger, Chubarov, Sopel, Fedorov, Smith traded

Chubarov for Ricci in December/January with only half a year of salary left, Sopel and Fedorov for Sarich and a low pick (Dudley traded Feds not Feaster), Smith for Shvidki (very, very fair proposition IMO).

Leaves us Kesler, Reid, Bouck, Koltsov, Jokela, Auld, Moss, and the spares as depth. Pretty darn good and not that unreasonable value-wise.

Kickassguy
10-01-2003, 10:19 AM
Really it all comes down to a numbers game, but I'd love to see something like this... if King can really click with the Sedins well (and early indications are that he will) we could have two pretty strong supplementary scoring lines in addition to the WCE:

WCE
Sedin^2-King
Arvedson-Linden-Cooke <--- this is the other line I was referring to... could potentially output as much offense as the Sedins

May - Chubarov - Ruutu

With Lindgren as our 13th forward and Langdon in the press box (or elsewhere, if we want to run with a 22 man roster).

On D, the standard 7, Jovo, Ohlund, Sopel, Slegr, Malik, Salo.

monster_bertuzzi
10-01-2003, 11:06 AM
Naslund-Morrison-Linden
Sedin-Sedin-Bertuzzi
Arvedson-Chubarov-Cooke
May-Lindgren-Keane/Ruutu

Langdon

Malik-Jovanovski
Ohlund-Sopel
Allen-Salo

Slegr

2 beautiful scoring lines, 2 checking lines.

Blane Youngblood
10-02-2003, 04:14 AM
What I think will happen:

Naslund-Morisson-Bert
Sedin #2-Sedin #1-King
Arvedson-Linden-Cooke
Lindgren-Chubarov-May

Ohlund-Sopel
Malik-Jovo
Slegr-Salo

Cloutier
Hedberg

What I want to see:

Arvedson - Mo - Bertuzzi
Cooke - H.Sedin - Naslund
D.Sedin - Reid - Linden
Lindgren - Chubarov - Ruutu

Ohlund - Jovo
Malik - Salo
Slegr - Allen

Cloutier
Hedberg

Ironchef Chris Wok*
10-02-2003, 05:08 AM
Linden has done that the majority of his career, play on the wing and then move in to take the important face-offs. He did this many, many times last year, it isn't going to change.

Good, it's not that I don't trust Chubarov with faceoffs, it's just that I don't trust Chubarov, Morrison, Henrik, and every other center on the Canucks on faceoffs, even though Linden lost that one in the Ranger zone w/ 3 seconds left.

TonyTanti
10-02-2003, 06:09 AM
I'd like to see

WCE
Sedin/Sedin/Linden
Arvedsson/Chubby/Cooke
May/Lindgren/Ruutu

Langdon/Keane (if signed)

Jovo/Malik
Ohlund/Sopel
Salo/Allen/Slegr