Mario to double his salary; team on the block?

KungFuPenguin
10-01-2003, 10:30 PM
http://www.post-gazette.com/penguins/20031002penguins1002p1.asp

Verrry interesting. If the team had spent that money on Kovy, would he still be here?

And what's with the property sales? Have they completely given up on getting a new arena? Or just at that particular location? Or is this an indication that the team is having problems with their liquidity? Or, worst case scenario -- are they cashing in assets in preparation for a sell?

kutdacheez
10-02-2003, 02:44 AM
I can hear the rationalizations now. Mario is a saint. Mario saved hockey in Pittsburgh. Yeah, so tthat he could get his $25 million that he was onthe verge of losing.
Here we go . . . someone who fixes leaking basements all day (I figure you mariano of mariano and richards) now has a problem with water on the brain. You people come out of the woodwork every time it gets dark. Just like cockroaches. Just to address one thing . . . what could be possibly wrong with getting the $25 million? I know there's something you feel is wrong about it. Speak up.

The next time he talks about physical responsibility, I hope people laugh in his face.
Is that the downside of the "hooked on phonics" program? Did you mean fiscal responsibility?

He destroys the team in the name of saving money then turns around and and puts it in his pocket. This is the second time. Most of the money they got for Jagr went into his pocket too.
It's amazing how someone who thinks it's "physical" responsibility would even have a clue where the monies are distributed. That's the problem with cockroaches . . . you can spray, get an exterminator and they keep coming back . . . always when the lights go out.

The best thing that could happen is that he sells the tean. It's going down the drain anyway with him and his pet lapdog Craig Patrick. Maybe some one else can save it, maybe not.
The team was down the drain. Maybe you might get out your books again and read about Chapter 11's and bankruptcy law. A little note to you (since you are probably really mariano jr. taking over the leaky basement business your pop built up) . . . it's this basic: Cash-in must be greater than Cash-out.

Might as wel find out because Lemieurx is in it for the fort term. I'd answer this little note too but it doesn't appear to make much sense. Your probably so freaking excited to bash on Mario you just had some premature posting.
BTW: There is a major difference between a Saint and God.

SuburbanRhythm
10-02-2003, 03:31 AM
Is that the downside of the "hooked on phonics" program? Did you mean fiscal responsibility?



:joker: Honestly LOL at that one....the looks I got here at work were priceless.

Anyway, mariano, did you actually read the article? His player salary has remained the same, again, for the 3rd straight season. The additional money is paid out as 1) mgmt salary, which he's earned as OWNER of this tea. Regardless of what you like to think, he's due something for what he's done, even if he didn't consult you on it first....and 2) deferred payment. Remember when he rescued them from bankruptcy? His sole reason for doing so wasn't to keep the team in Pittsburgh...hell, it probably wasn't his first reason! Buying the team and keeping it afloat was the only way he was ever going to see the deferred money from his last contract (before 1st retirement). So, once again, he EARNED that, it's his.

tom_servo
10-02-2003, 04:36 AM
I must've skipped right over this thread. But, I like my title better, so I won't delete it.

The Tang
10-02-2003, 05:15 AM
I can hear the rationalizations now. Mario is a saint. Mario saved hockey in Pittsburgh. Yeah, so tthat he could get his $25 million that he was onthe verge of losing.

The next time he talks about physical responsibility, I hope people laugh in his face. He destroys the team in the name of saving money then turns around and and puts it in his pocket. This is the second time. Most of the money they got for Jagr went into his pocket too.

The best thing that could happen is that he sells the tean. It's going down the drain anyway with him and his pet lapdog Craig Patrick. Maybe some one else can save it, maybe not. Might as wel find out because Lemieurx is in it for the fort term.

are you ignorant or just that stupid?

tom_servo
10-02-2003, 05:25 AM
I can't understand how a CEO of four years was "long overdue" for a 1000% raise.

KungFuPenguin
10-02-2003, 06:10 AM
Especially at this point in time, when the Penguins have made damn sure everyone's aware of how little money they supposedly have. The player salary and the deferred salary are less questionable.

KungFuPenguin
10-02-2003, 06:11 AM
This is the second time. Most of the money they got for Jagr went into his pocket too.

Source?

Alex Kovalev
10-02-2003, 06:43 AM
Mario should have retired and we could have kept Hrdina and Kovalev. If we have 10 mil to spend on Mario, I think we have 7+ for Kovalev and 2+ for Hrdina.

SuburbanRhythm
10-02-2003, 08:02 AM
Mario should have retired and we could have kept Hrdina and Kovalev. If we have 10 mil to spend on Mario, I think we have 7+ for Kovalev and 2+ for Hrdina.

Look at it this way-- $2.5 of that should only be available to Mario, the portion that is his deferred payments.

So, $5.25 as player salary, and $2.25, or $2.5, whichever it is, as mgmt salary, $7.5 available. And if they are set on having a certain payroll limit, maybe only that $5.25 is available to players . $5.25 wasn't getting Kovy. Would have gotten Hrdina and been able to sign a FA.

Given that choice, I'll take Lemiuex.

kutdacheez
10-02-2003, 08:25 AM
Mario should have retired and we could have kept Hrdina and Kovalev. If we have 10 mil to spend on Mario, I think we have 7+ for Kovalev and 2+ for Hrdina.
I that "in your humble opinion"??

I've seen Mario play just about every home game (in life) a few away games (in life) and almost all on TV. I've missed some but not that many is what I'm trying to say.
To see him playing here is worth the price of admission (strictly a relative term don't take it literally) . . . in my humble opinion anyone that thinks a Kovalev and Hrdina is as good as Mario (even now), or thinks that he should have retired never really got to appreciate how good the guy really is. That's my opinion and there is a slight chance (very slight chance) that I could be wrong on this one. Really, it's so small of a chance that it hardly exists at all.
:teach:

butchers_dog
10-02-2003, 09:07 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/penguins/20031002penguins1002p1.asp

And what's with the property sales? Have they completely given up on getting a new arena? Or just at that particular location? Or is this an indication that the team is having problems with their liquidity? Or, worst case scenario -- are they cashing in assets in preparation for a sell?

From the story you posted!

The Penguins purchased the building for $8 million in November 2000, saying that they wanted to secure land for a new arena. That was a point they made frequently after that when describing their potential private contribution to the project, the total cost of which could be as high as $278 million.

But Sawyer said yesterday that the team hoped at the time that the city, county or Sports & Exhibition Authority would take it off their hands within a year. Sawyer estimated that the team was paying more than $1 million annually toward the building for mortgage, property taxes and maintenance.

The Penguins also did not reveal publicly that they had put up for sale the former St. Francis Central Hospital on Centre Avenue, across the street from Mellon Arena. It has been listed with CB Richard Ellis for $15 million since late August.

If they get 15 Million thats nearly a 100% return on investment in 3+years, of course minus taxes and expenses.



Maybe this is just a decision to TRY AND MAKE SOME MONEY.

Don'tcry4mejanhrdina
10-02-2003, 10:04 AM
Any body that says Lemieux only cares about money must be brain damaged or doesn't know anything about hockey. In the article, it pretty much said that it wasn't Lemieux's decision, he didn't even have a part in it. I would also like to know what other teams chairmen and chief executives make. It most likely isn't only $200,000.

spence___
10-02-2003, 11:26 AM
I can hear the rationalizations now. Mario is a saint. Mario saved hockey in Pittsburgh. Yeah, so tthat he could get his $25 million that he was onthe verge of losing.


Are you retarded, seriously? I mean how much money could he have made playing for New York or some other large market team for the last 3 years?

tom_servo
10-02-2003, 12:38 PM
Hey, why lock my thread? I know it's redundant, but I want to bump it up from time to time so folks can have a laugh.

KungFuPenguin
10-02-2003, 12:55 PM
Maybe this is just a decision to TRY AND MAKE SOME MONEY.

Still, the Penguins aren't a real-estate company. They're a hockey club. That property was acquired with the singular purpose of harboring a future arena. That they're selling it means these plans have been abandoned. It could also be interpreted as the team needing to liquidate some assets in order to pay expenses -- a massively increased CEO salary, for instance. Doesn't look too good from a PR standpoint, when the team has made all these noises about being poor and surviving until a new CBA is in place.

Not being familiar with the Pittsburgh economic climate, I will still question the timing of this deal. If the land value has doubled in three years, why not sit on it for a while yet as the stock market continues to climb? Liquidity issues?

KungFuPenguin
10-02-2003, 01:00 PM
Hey, why lock my thread? I know it's redundant, but I want to bump it up from time to time so folks can have a laugh.

Sorry for ruining your thread, tom. :)

Koltsov71
10-02-2003, 01:07 PM
I've seen Mario play just about every home game (in life) a few away games (in life) and almost all on TV. I've missed some but not that many is what I'm trying to say.
To see him playing here is worth the price of admission (strictly a relative term don't take it literally) . . . in my humble opinion anyone that thinks a Kovalev and Hrdina is as good as Mario (even now), or thinks that he should have retired never really got to appreciate how good the guy really is. That's my opinion and there is a slight chance (very slight chance) that I could be wrong on this one. Really, it's so small of a chance that it hardly exists at all.
:teach:

Hmm.. Which emoticon is most appropriate for my feelings on this post.. I'll go with :bow:

kutdacheez
10-02-2003, 02:11 PM
Doesn't look too good from a PR standpoint, when the team has made all these noises about being poor and surviving until a new CBA is in place.
Not being familiar with the Pittsburgh economic climate, I will still question the timing of this deal. If the land value has doubled in three years, why not sit on it for a while yet as the stock market continues to climb? Liquidity issues?
From a marketing standpoint, I agree . . . the timing is bad. From a business standpoint?? :dunno:
:D Does Gimbels tell Hornes their business? :D

spence___
10-02-2003, 02:15 PM
Is the city even putting any money towards the new arena? If not, then what's the incentive to even build it downtown?

kutdacheez
10-03-2003, 02:55 AM
If the team did abandon the idea of a new arena, one can only think that this team has no future in pittsburgh anymore.


Rather than using the "one can only think" line . . . would you please start using something like: "The only conclusion I (that would be you) can make from all of this" . . . because right now your posts give off the general impression that there is an obvious conclusion to many of the things that you post about. This most recent thing being the Penguins putting this property up for sale therefore . . . "one can only think that this team has no future in pittsburgh anymore."

You (only because on the Internet no one really knows who's zooming who) claim to be from Vancouver yet you present your insight to Penguin's management, the Pittsburgh economic scene and with other stuff with the guise of more insight with those of us that live here and actually pay our taxes to the city of Pittsburgh.

The fact is, you really don't have that insight. Especially to summarize the "one can only conclude" routine. The only substance I could find in your post is that Winnipeg should have an NHL hockey team and you capitalized that city's name when spelling it. But that's a whole different story.

BTW, do you know where Harrison is and what it has to do with Pittsburgh Penguins? Do you know who Ron Burkle, Ted Arneault, Tony Liberati, Bill Kassling, Tom Grealish and Michele Ward are? And, can you tell me who Wes Westley is and why he's a jackass? Also, what do you think Steve Leeper's responsibleness and position is in all of this? What do you know about the other building sight? Let me put it another way . . . if you flew into Pittsburgh International Airport could you find your way to the Igloo even Yahoo's driving directions? Do you know what you have to go through at the bottom of Greentree hill? I think not.

Just so you understand some of this . . . the Penguins bought the St. Francis Hospital sight across Centre Avenue three years ago for $8 million. It's worth right now is estimated at three to four times that. The intent of that purchase was that the county or city would take it over and that it would be the sight for the new arena. But the plans for funds looks like it has fallen thru the cracks and the sight costs the Penguins approx. $800k a year to maintain plus another $200k in real estate taxes to the City of Pittsburgh. Those real estate taxes are a real slap in the face by the city because there are many business in the city that are exempt from paying the real estate taxes. But not the Penguins. Because we have a very large group of lever pulling, gray-haired seniors (second highest county senior population in the US) who control the voting, nothing will happen until after the elections are over in November . . . the Penguins put the $1 million loss a year on the market. Maybe to Vancouverians, or whater you are called that means that Mario is selling the team and we are bankrupted. To others it's all about good business practices with a government business partner that lies and doesn't carry out it's promises. Mario could move this team anytime and hasn't . . . and that one non-move should indicate to those with half a brain that he is committed to make it work here. Those with less than half a brain, or with other motives continue to present things differently. That's why there are always those that have and those that don't have in this world. So far Mario has walked his talk while others haven't. That says a lot more to me about his commitment than any reporter or poster that tries to present the listing of a property in a sensational manner.

As to Mario's salary, first I suggest you find out who the above mentioned people (players) are and then you just might understand the subject is a little bit deeper than what you are making comment. The sky isn't falling anymore than it is in most other NHL franchises. Quite frankly, they (the Penguins) may have become more responsible practicing the cash-in must be higher than cash-out than many of the other teams.

Doofis_L_Hipster
10-03-2003, 04:25 AM
Rather than using the "one can only think" line . . . would you please start using something like: "The only conclusion I (that would be you) can make from all of this" . . . because right now your posts give off the general impression that there is an obvious conclusion to many of the things that you post about. This most recent thing being the Penguins putting this property up for sale therefore . . . "one can only think that this team has no future in pittsburgh anymore."

You (only because on the Internet no one really knows who's zooming who) claim to be from Vancouver yet you present your insight to Penguin's management, the Pittsburgh economic scene and with other stuff with the guise of more insight with those of us that live here and actually pay our taxes to the city of Pittsburgh.

The fact is, you really don't have that insight. Especially to summarize the "one can only conclude" routine. The only substance I could find in your post is that Winnipeg should have an NHL hockey team and you capitalized that city's name when spelling it. But that's a whole different story.

BTW, do you know where Harrison is and what it has to do with Pittsburgh Penguins? Do you know who Ron Burkle, Ted Arneault, Tony Liberati, Bill Kassling, Tom Grealish and Michele Ward are? And, can you tell me who Wes Westley is and why he's a jackass? Also, what do you think Steve Leeper's responsibleness and position is in all of this? What do you know about the other building sight? Let me put it another way . . . if you flew into Pittsburgh International Airport could you find your way to the Igloo even Yahoo's driving directions? Do you know what you have to go through at the bottom of Greentree hill? I think not.

As to Mario's salary, first I suggest you find out who the above mentioned people (players) are and then you just might understand the subject is a little bit deeper than what you are making comment. The sky isn't falling anymore than it is in most other NHL franchises. Quite frankly, they (the Penguins) may have become more responsible practicing the cash-in must be higher than cash-out than many of the other teams.

Good post. A lot of people are generalizing things off of the basis not on knowledge but on what they, or what 'one' would think.

I don't see how anyone could have a problem with compensating Mario Lemieux $10 million dollars for the role he plays for the Penguins. Without this guy, there literally is no Penguins. Sweaty Teddy's paying Yammy more money and he's not even getting a CEO and such a huge marketing goldmine out of it.

Just so you understand some of this . . . the Penguins bought the St. Francis Hospital sight across Centre Avenue three years ago for $8 million. It's worth right now is estimated at three to four times that. The intent of that purchase was that the county or city would take it over and that it would be the sight for the new arena. But the plans for funds looks like it has fallen thru the cracks and the sight costs the Penguins approx. $800k a year to maintain plus another $200k in real estate taxes to the City of Pittsburgh. Those real estate taxes are a real slap in the face by the city because there are many business in the city that are exempt from paying the real estate taxes. But not the Penguins. Because we have a very large group of lever pulling, gray-haired seniors (second highest county senior population in the US) who control the voting, nothing will happen until after the elections are over in November . . . the Penguins put the $1 million loss a year on the market. Maybe to Vancouverians, or whater you are called that means that Mario is selling the team and we are bankrupted. To others it's all about good business practices with a government business partner that lies and doesn't carry out it's promises. Mario could move this team anytime and hasn't . . . and that one non-move should indicate to those with half a brain that he is committed to make it work here. Those with less than half a brain, or with other motives continue to present things differently. That's why there are always those that have and those that don't have in this world. So far Mario has walked his talk while others haven't. That says a lot more to me about his commitment than any reporter or poster that tries to present the listing of a property in a sensational manner.

I agree with what you say and I understand the motives to sell the hospital site, the only problem I really have with the whole situation is how it was handled. I think it would have been a lot better for the Pens to come out over the summer and say what they've said in the past few days and not let such a panic start in the first place. Kovacevic summed it up well when he said: "If they announce it, they can explain at the same time why they are doing it and deliver the same rational explanations they have in the past two days, all while not looking look like they were caught in the act or something."