Do not feed the trolls, boys & girls [Archive]

Mizral

10-02-2003, 11:06 AM

See that is the problem though don't your think. i think most of the posts on this thread have been very honest opinion by the posters with no negative feeling intented, but since there is a difference of opinion, the people with different viewpoint will be look at as "Bash the Canucks".

MVP,

I am a very optimistic fan, but this is one moderator who will NEVER allow dissenting view points to be banned. There are other boards like this, that ban anybody with even a hint of bad things to say about the home team. You won't see me doing it. I'm pretty sure I can speak for Kirk & Nalyd here, too. Feel free to be the dissenting voice.

Colonel,

Yeah, I know what you mean. Honestly, this is the first time I've seen Kurupt post. I wasn't on much last night, so I can't say I saw it and did nothing about it. With 3 moderators, we are pretty active, but there are times when the 3 of us aren't online now and then. You guys have to cut us some slack here.

jrhockey,

You're pushing it. You can post here, but don't be antagonistic.

Peter Griffin

10-02-2003, 11:09 AM

This is to better griffiths, when you make sense and read a message properly then will talk hockey, we should be able to bicker in an appropriate manner and not slam each other, some cant do that. Make a post against me on the flyers board and youll get the reaction your looking for!

What? :confused: You're not making sense, I'm not sure that I'll be able to talk hockey with you until you learn how to type properly.

As for your previous post, you stated that you developed an opinion ,when living on Vancouver Island, that the Canucks fans were the most biased(notice the proper spelling of the word biased) in the league. Unless you've lived around the fans of every NHL team, that isn't saying much for your "honest opinion"...

MVP

10-02-2003, 11:13 AM

Peter Griffin

10-02-2003, 11:13 AM

nucks2001

10-02-2003, 11:18 AM

so people comming in and saying how much Canucks fans suck etc is okay? Cool, I'll start doing that on other boards.

Mizral

10-02-2003, 11:18 AM

What? :confused: You're not making sense, I'm not sure that I'll be able to talk hockey with you until you learn how to type properly.

As for your previous post, you stated that you developed an opinion ,when living on Vancouver Island, that the Canucks fans were the most biased(notice the proper spelling of the word biased) in the league. Unless you've lived around the fans of every NHL team, that isn't saying much for your "honest opinion"...

Peter, you win the award of 'Feeding the trolls in a 'Don't Feed The Trolls' thread ;)

NFITO

10-02-2003, 11:19 AM

As for your previous post, you stated that you developed an opinion ,when living on Vancouver Island, that the Canucks fans were the most biased(notice the proper spelling of the word biased) in the league. Unless you've lived around the fans of every NHL team, that isn't saying much for your "honest opinion"...

you wanna see bias fans... spend a little time in TO!

I wouldn't call fans in Vancouver any more biased than fans in other places.... but I do think there are a high number (comparitively) of bandwagon fans in Vancouver....

when the team is playing great, they're packing the garage... when they're sucking - and it won't take long - they'll find other things to follow...

in Toronto, you can pretty much gaurentee that they'll support the team... they may hate the direction or the coach (and they aren't big fans of Quinn right now), but the support won't die off as easily...

even in Calgary, after 7 non-playoff years, with only a fool's hope given by the team, they still get lots of support.... if the Canucks missed the playoffs for 7 years ... well, they wouldn't miss the playoffs for 7 years, because after 4 or 5 straight they'd be in the relocated to somewhere in the States.

Peter Griffin

10-02-2003, 11:22 AM

Peter, you win the award of 'Feeding the trolls in a 'Don't Feed The Trolls' thread ;)

Yay! But to be fair, I wasn't around last night to participate in the other thread... :)

Peter Griffin

10-02-2003, 11:24 AM

MVP

10-02-2003, 11:28 AM

I wouldn't call fans in Vancouver any more biased than fans in other places.... but I do think there are a high number (comparitively) of bandwagon fans in Vancouver....

Great point, that is one of the problems i see. Unfortunately, there is nothing that the moderator can do about it, i mean the bandwagon fan still has the freedom of express their opinion, but they are often not very knowlegable and taken away some of the more meaningful discussion.

KOMO_ROCKS

10-02-2003, 11:32 AM

Jewelly

10-02-2003, 11:34 AM

Look! Suddenly we have new emoticons, this should clear up all misunderstandings from here on in. lol

:cheers: :spam: :laugh: :devious: :hockey:

NFITO

10-02-2003, 11:35 AM

Great point, that is one of the problems i see. Unfortunately, there is nothing that the moderator can do about it, i mean the bandwagon fan still has the freedom of express their opinion, but they are often not very knowlegable and taken away some of the more meaningful discussion.

I don't know... I didn't really think about that comment reflective of fans that come to this board (those that are pro or anti-Canuck)... moreso as a response to the comments about bias fans in Vancouver that the poster (jrhockey) had met or been around...

I don't know how many bandwagon fans actually come on hockey boards... most fans that spend time on boards like this discussing hockey, I wouldn't really label as "bandwagon," rather most of them (us) are probably diehards.

Peter Griffin

10-02-2003, 11:37 AM

Look! Suddenly we have new emoticons:

:spam: :laugh: :devious: :hockey:

ooooohhhhh.....aahhhhhhh. So pretty!

Need to argue, lowering. Lowering. Lowering. RISING. Lowering. Gone.

:rocket:

LaVal

10-02-2003, 01:59 PM

Not to be overly critical here, but had the situation been dealt with by the moderators earlier I don't think it would have gotten out of hand. Kurupt had been trolling the Canucks board for several days and it was apparent that his only intention was to post garbage here. I suspect that the fact that he was allowed to continue for so long contributed to a lot of posters' frustrations, which is probably why he got so many responses. He should have been kicked off after the first couple threads he posted to join his pal (alias?) "Burnaby Joe".

i am going to agree with this as well. nothing was done and it was getting to the point where i had to write complaints to admins which i hate doing.

it started out subtle, then every second thread was destroyed when the poster found out he could get away with just about anything. when his activity increased, and users were forced to view it over and over, they lose their ability to bite their tongue.

if you notice, nobody really fueled his trolling until he was posting garbage in every post.

LaVal

10-02-2003, 02:13 PM

You guys compain about everything, i grew up on the island, and this is my honest opinion canucks fans are the most biast fansn in the league. You call this person down and brag about calling him a troll, as far as i can see your a troll for having double standards like that. Then again what should i expect on this board!

if you were here to see Kurupt's posts i doubt you'd be saying this. it is obvious his intents were never to participate in discussion, rather to start up trash talking. if i was to go to the board of your favorite team, and call your GM and best players names in threads that had nothing to do about it, i'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it very much either. if there was a thread about Burke, and Kurupt said he didn't like Burke because he thinks he whines too much... that would be fine. opinions are opinions. however, when there's a thread about who has impressed you from camp, and he uses that thread to bash Burke and other Canucks, then it becomes trolling.

he has made fun of Burke, Bertuzzi, our 2001 playoff loss to Colorado, the Sedins, etc in threads about:

- The CBA
- Player impressions in the pre-season
- Prospects
- Press conference about lotto tickets

he didn't do it in an opinionative manor either. "Bertuzzi is a big cry baby and so is his GM" as a post in threads like CBA talks deffinately aren't of a classy taste. there is no doubt Kurupt was trolling.

if you would frequent the Canucks board you'd find out in a hurry that we are one of the most hospitible sections of this board. we frequently involve and invite fans from other teams in game night threads and chats when we play against them, and we always get along quite well.

the thing that sets hfboards above the other's is it's sense of community. posters like Kurupt just lower the standards and degrade the forum.

Jon Burke

10-02-2003, 02:13 PM

For a fan of a team not to be biased is a very rare thing. I think all of us have rose-colored sunglasses when it comes to evaluating the Canucks. We can try to think about think about something objectively, but I really think that as Canuck fans we'll always be biased about our team. And so will every other fan of hockey.

And another thing, I don't know if it's appropriate to associate poor spelling with a lack of intelligence in hockey. I'm not going to start ranting on the subject, but the fact of the matter is that spelling has NOTHING to do with hockey intelligence. It does affect the quality and "readability" of someone's post, but the two are not linked in any way.

And how do you feed a troll? Clear this up for me so I don't. Is it if you get all cranky at them, or if you scold them or if you just respond in general? :dunno:

Jewelly

10-02-2003, 02:30 PM

And another thing, I don't know if it's appropriate to associate poor spelling with a lack of intelligence in hockey. I'm not going to start ranting on the subject, but the fact of the matter is that spelling has NOTHING to do with hockey intelligence.
Well there goes my job. :cry:

Really though, I think people in general are quite tolerant of others' spelling/grammar mistakes; we all make them.

It's when someone is obviously stopping by to bash rather than take part in the discussion that we tend to pick on their spelling/grammar mistakes.

I mean there's plenty of posters who are knowlegable, add to the topic and their writing skills aren't that great but no one mentions anything b/c we know their intentions are good and that's all that really matters.

maruk14

10-02-2003, 04:01 PM

I think it is pretty simple. This is a discussion board about hockey. This is not a discussion board about hockey fans. Talk about the games, the teams, the players, etc. When that line is crossed and the discussion swings to another teams fans then the quality of a board goes downhill real fast. I would hate to see this board go that route. I have quit posting on other sites when it became nothing more than flame wars between opposing teams fans, and I gravitated to this board because there is usually a common respect between fans overall. We talk about each other teams, but usually save the "----- fans this", and "----- fans that" for other sites. Hopefully it stays that way.

maruk14

10-02-2003, 04:03 PM

And how do you feed a troll? Clear this up for me so I don't. Is it if you get all cranky at them, or if you scold them or if you just respond in general? :dunno:

For me it's if you just respond in general. If they are ignored completely they go away real fast because all they want to do is draw you into a pissing match and get a reaction.

Waveburner

10-02-2003, 04:17 PM

Sorry, but I agree 100% with cyrisweb...

Kurupt was trolling for at least 5 days before a Mod finally acted. It got out of hand because:

A)Nothing happened to him...he was allowed to post too long
B)People got fed up with the lack of mod response and tried to take matters into their own hands-which only made it worse, because Kurupt was finally getting what he apparently wanted-a name-calling war.

I don't mean to be critical, I honestly think Miz, Kirk and Nalyd have always done a great job "policing" the board, and only step in when necesary. Hopefully we can do a better job of ignoring these simpleton's from now on :)

Jewelly

10-02-2003, 04:18 PM

Hobo

10-02-2003, 04:37 PM

There is a huge amount of disrespect for other posters in general out there - these HF boards are much better than most - so I agree don't feed the Trolls - but be careful: "Burke is an idiot" (not my opinion - actually I think he has done a great job) is a slightly relevant post to most threads, even though it may be ignorant and repetitive. BTW nobody will miss that particular Avs fan. :rolly:

He is not worthy, unlike Nazzy :bow:

quat

10-02-2003, 04:37 PM

you wanna see bias fans... spend a little time in TO!

I wouldn't call fans in Vancouver any more biased than fans in other places.... but I do think there are a high number (comparitively) of bandwagon fans in Vancouver....

when the team is playing great, they're packing the garage... when they're sucking - and it won't take long - they'll find other things to follow...

in Toronto, you can pretty much gaurentee that they'll support the team... they may hate the direction or the coach (and they aren't big fans of Quinn right now), but the support won't die off as easily...

even in Calgary, after 7 non-playoff years, with only a fool's hope given by the team, they still get lots of support.... if the Canucks missed the playoffs for 7 years ... well, they wouldn't miss the playoffs for 7 years, because after 4 or 5 straight they'd be in the relocated to somewhere in the States.

Wellllll I dunno know about the last bit there NFTO.... The Canucks have sucked for the majority of their 30 plus years, while the Flames were a great team for years before winning the SC. They went down hill since then, but if you are comparing the two franchises, I'd say the Flames have done infinitely more than the Canucks, and our Fans have suffered a great deal more without ever getting much back in the way of success. I've read many posts and articles by Canuck fans saying they would do absolutely anything (giving up limbs!), for Vancouver to bring home a cup... including still supporting the team if they sucked for years after.

Jewelly

10-02-2003, 04:38 PM

LaVal

10-02-2003, 04:41 PM

but be careful: "Burke is an idiot" (not my opinion - actually I think he has done a great job) is a slightly relevant post to most threads

using that logic you can relate anything hockey related to any thread. bashing Burke on discussions of the CBA, player impressions at camp, etc are all unrelated and were done so in an unrelated manor.

Hobo

10-02-2003, 05:20 PM

using that logic you can relate anything hockey related to any thread. bashing Burke on discussions of the CBA, player impressions at camp, etc are all unrelated and were done so in an unrelated manor.

I don't disagree. If it were my call I would prefer to cut alot of slack for barely relevant posts. This isn't the United Nations discussing what country to blow up next.

Kurupt's posts are undefendable anyway - imagine sitting on a plane next to that! Yikes!
:banana:

Jewelly

10-02-2003, 05:28 PM

I don't disagree. If it were my call I would prefer to cut alot of slack for barely relevant posts. This isn't the United Nations discussing what country to blow up next.

Kurupt's posts are undefendable anyway - imagine sitting on a plane next to that! Yikes!
:banana:
You are the first person to use the 'banana man' on this board... congratulations. I'm sure many faithful will follow.

SopelFan*

10-02-2003, 07:37 PM

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/images/newsm/banana.gifhttp://www.vbulletin.org/forum/images/newsm/banana.gifhttp://www.vbulletin.org/forum/images/newsm/banana.gifhttp://www.vbulletin.org/forum/images/newsm/banana.gifhttp://www.vbulletin.org/forum/images/newsm/banana.gif

nuksforlife

10-02-2003, 07:41 PM

hOW DO U DO THE BANANA'S?

Ironchef Chris Wok*

10-02-2003, 11:35 PM

:blush: Guilty of feeding the troll.

I couldn't help it though b/c this board has become somewhat 'uptight' lately and I was in need of some fun. :(

I so nailed him good w/ taht your momma joke.

Jewelly

10-03-2003, 01:19 AM

hOW DO U DO THE BANANA'S?
Check the list of emoticons... HF added a whole 'bunch' more. lol

colonel_korn

10-04-2003, 12:10 AM

Check the list of emoticons... HF added a whole 'bunch' more. lol

They've been removed now!

:banana: :(

Edit: posting the url of the image still works though :)

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/images/newsm/banana.gif

Jewelly

10-04-2003, 06:17 AM

They've been removed now!

:banana: :(

Edit: posting the url of the image still works though :)

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/images/newsm/banana.gif
Banana power is gone. :(

Bring back the banana.

Testing url: http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/images/newsm/banana.gif

I wonder if HF will add some more emoticons again. I liked some of them but the Rambo guy and marshmallows had to go.

g0dlike

10-05-2003, 09:30 AM

MVP,

I am a very optimistic fan, but this is one moderator who will NEVER allow dissenting view points to be banned. There are other boards like this, that ban anybody with even a hint of bad things to say about the home team. You won't see me doing it. I'm pretty sure I can speak for Kirk & Nalyd here, too. Feel free to be the dissenting voice.

Colonel,

Yeah, I know what you mean. Honestly, this is the first time I've seen Kurupt post. I wasn't on much last night, so I can't say I saw it and did nothing about it. With 3 moderators, we are pretty active, but there are times when the 3 of us aren't online now and then. You guys have to cut us some slack here.

jrhockey,

You're pushing it. You can post here, but don't be antagonistic.

It's administrator remarks like these, that have made me come to these boards less and less. If someone wants to troll, buck up and ignore him, or get into a flame war with the troll. Why should it be an admin's divine right to delete a troll post? An admin should make sure that offensive, ignorant (read: racist, sexist, over the line sexual remarks) are deleted and not read. I find that there are too many "You be careful or you'll be banned" remarks from the admin's here. Boards like these are moderated because people don't like spam, or don't want to see the ignorant crap that makes it's way on to Usenet. If people here can't handle a troll that says, "Jovo is crappy", then they really need to grow up and not take life so seriously. Why can't someone be antagonistic? What gives you the right as a mod to stop them from starting a hockey argument? If people don't want to reply or "feed the trolls" they shouldn't. Censorship sucks, man. And for you to 'warn' someone that they are 'pushing it', that's BS.

LaVal

10-05-2003, 10:43 AM

It's administrator remarks like these, that have made me come to these boards less and less. If someone wants to troll, buck up and ignore him, or get into a flame war with the troll. Why should it be an admin's divine right to delete a troll post? An admin should make sure that offensive, ignorant (read: racist, sexist, over the line sexual remarks) are deleted and not read. I find that there are too many "You be careful or you'll be banned" remarks from the admin's here. Boards like these are moderated because people don't like spam, or don't want to see the ignorant crap that makes it's way on to Usenet. If people here can't handle a troll that says, "Jovo is crappy", then they really need to grow up and not take life so seriously. Why can't someone be antagonistic? What gives you the right as a mod to stop them from starting a hockey argument? If people don't want to reply or "feed the trolls" they shouldn't. Censorship sucks, man. And for you to 'warn' someone that they are 'pushing it', that's BS.

there is a difference between someone posting "jovo is crappy" in a thread, and using every single thread that doesn't even involve Jovanovski to trash talk him for the lone purpose of making other poster's visit here less enjoyable.

- posting "I don't think Jovanovski is a good player, and here's why..." in a thread about say Canucks defense, or Jovanovski in general
- posting "You Canucks fans suck because you think Jovanovski is good and he sucks" in a thread about the impending CBA

now you can't tell me that you can't tell the difference between which one of those statements is an actual opinionated argument, and which is a blatent attempt at trolling.

what is he doing? using a common stereotyped trait in a hateful manor. so using your logic there should be no editing or deletion of things such as racism.

bottom line is anybody that comes here solely to lessen other people's enjoyment should be dealt with.

Waveburner

10-05-2003, 12:58 PM

10-05-2003, 01:23 PM

It's administrator remarks like these, that have made me come to these boards less and less. If someone wants to troll, buck up and ignore him, or get into a flame war with the troll. Why should it be an admin's divine right to delete a troll post? An admin should make sure that offensive, ignorant (read: racist, sexist, over the line sexual remarks) are deleted and not read. I find that there are too many "You be careful or you'll be banned" remarks from the admin's here. Boards like these are moderated because people don't like spam, or don't want to see the ignorant crap that makes it's way on to Usenet. If people here can't handle a troll that says, "Jovo is crappy", then they really need to grow up and not take life so seriously. Why can't someone be antagonistic? What gives you the right as a mod to stop them from starting a hockey argument? If people don't want to reply or "feed the trolls" they shouldn't. Censorship sucks, man. And for you to 'warn' someone that they are 'pushing it', that's BS.

if posts from trollers become tolerated, it's a slippery slope that will lead to more and more of this kind of behavior and pretty soon, all you will see on other teams boards are trash talk that will flood the team boards with utterly useless antagonisms with nothing constructive being contributed.
I tolerate and ignore trollers, but I can see that letting statements meant to antagonize fans just leads to trouble..

g0dlike

10-05-2003, 02:02 PM

if posts from trollers become tolerated, it's a slippery slope that will lead to more and more of this kind of behavior and pretty soon, all you will see on other teams boards are trash talk that will flood the team boards with utterly useless antagonisms with nothing constructive being contributed.
I tolerate and ignore trollers, but I can see that letting statements meant to antagonize fans just leads to trouble..

Fair enough, however I am a regular lurker of alt.sports.hockey.nhl.vancouver.canucks and there is no moderator there. There are your trollers, but they are for the most part ignored. The conversations are good, insightful and on the whole quite enjoyable to read. If one doesn't want to read a troll, one doesn't.

And to answer Waveburner's post, I do go to other boards now, simply because I don't agree with the policies of these boards. There are good conversations that go on here, and I still check back from time to time. Quite honestly, often the latest news, or the first reports of trades are found here, and so I check back from time to time.

I weighed in on this conversation simply because of the post that I quoted in my origanal message. Mizral, in the first part of his post said that dissenting voices are encouraged, yet in the second part scolded a poster like a 6 year old kid. If the trolling poster was obviously looking to start a fight, then isn't the respondent *as much to blame* as the original troller? Shouldn't the people who feed the trolls be threatened with banishment as well?

I am one of those dissenting voices. If you don't like my opinion fine. You are entitled to your opinion as much as I am entitled to mine.

And LaVal, I rarely agree with anything that you post. In fact you and I went head to head a couple of months ago over BB's job as GM. So, I am not suprised that you disagree with me here.

- posting "I don't think Jovanovski is a good player, and here's why..." in a thread about say Canucks defense, or Jovanovski in general
- posting "You Canucks fans suck because you think Jovanovski is good and he sucks" in a thread about the impending CBA

now you can't tell me that you can't tell the difference between which one of those statements is an actual opinionated argument, and which is a blatent attempt at trolling.

what is he doing? using a common stereotyped trait in a hateful manor. so using your logic there should be no editing or deletion of things such as racism.

bottom line is anybody that comes here solely to lessen other people's enjoyment should be dealt with.

Give me a freaking break. To compare someone saying "Jovanoski is crappy" to a racial statement is using such twisted logic there you should seriously consider a career in politics. It is someone trolling for sure, but where is the common stereotype? People out there *do* think Jovo sucks, and I am sure that they have their reasons.

One statement is definitely a troll and should be ignored. It's called being the bigger person. A troll is a person that says stuff to get a reaction. If no one were to react, including the mods, the troll would leave. But by anyone saying anything, the purpose of the troll has been successful. Sure ban him/her. If he really wants to troll the group, he will come back as someone else.

Ah well. Back to lurking.

Mizral

10-05-2003, 02:14 PM

Waveburner

10-05-2003, 02:40 PM

Yeah, Miz pretty much said what I meant, only better :)

The board policy is very easy to read. When someone breaks those rules, the rules should be enforced. End of story.

Godlike, I agree it would be much much easier to get rid of trolls if people just ignored them, but quite frankly, they don't :) And I for one get sick of clicking on a post entitled, for example, "Who should the Canucks protect in the waiver draft", only to click through 5 pages of people going back forth saying "Burke is a baby"-"No he isn't, you are a baby".

If you prefer a board that allows the trolls to post freely, by all means, have fun with that :) Just don't expect it to be tolerated here. And don't expect anyone to agree with you around here either. We all pretty much came here for the same reason-this board actually has not been flooded by internet idiots yet, and we kind of like it that way :D

g0dlike

10-05-2003, 03:19 PM

Godlike,

If these were my boards, I would be more lax on policy.

However, they are not. These are a privatly run messageboard. It is not a right to post here, it is a privilage. The guidelines are clearly set by the owners of the messageboard. As a moderator, it's my responsability to carry those guidelines out (with some liberties here and there).

Whereas you may feel trolling is fine, others do not. The owners the website do not. This is not a democracy - if you don't like it, go to another messageboard. Period. End of story.

Anyways, the rules on this messageboard are pretty darn easy to follow. You hardly have to walk on pins and needles. I have banned, tops, 3 posters on this board since January. That works out to less than 1 ban per month for me, and I'm sure Kirk & Nalyd are not a lot different.

Read the guidelines. If you don't agree with them, try the SLAM.com messageboards.

I am also a regular reader of the trade rumors board and don't find that board to be so upitty either. And that board has a lot more inflammatory material.

Bingo. Again you say exactly what turns me off from these boards. It's not a right it's a priviledge? That's the attitude you take with a poster that you disagree with?

It's not a hard decision to make when you put it that way. How about I forward this conversation to the owners of this board, and all of their advertiser's as well? Think that Amazon is going to say that to me or any of their customers that I should go suck on it? As a webmaster, the point of a website is to get people to COME to your website, not to tell them to go get bent.

The point of the OP was that people should settle down here, especially you with your high handed approach. Nalyd & Kirk don't seem to feel the need to constantly tell people to "watch it", and if you continually tell everyone to bugger off who questions your supreme will, soon you will have no one left to read your posts, and the small $$ that is made of of advertsing will dry up.

Deal with trolling however you want to, hey you're the mod. And in the long run, if that's what people want, then more power to you. However, when people raise questions about the way things happen and you pretty much tell them to go to hell, that's wrong man. And to me, it ain't worth my time. As another poster has said, there are 100000 boards out there.

Jon Burke

10-05-2003, 03:23 PM

Waveburner

10-05-2003, 03:52 PM

I am also a regular reader of the trade rumors board and don't find that board to be so upitty either. And that board has a lot more inflammatory material.

Bingo. Again you say exactly what turns me off from these boards. It's not a right it's a priviledge? That's the attitude you take with a poster that you disagree with?

It's not a hard decision to make when you put it that way. How about I forward this conversation to the owners of this board, and all of their advertiser's as well? Think that Amazon is going to say that to me or any of their customers that I should go suck on it? As a webmaster, the point of a website is to get people to COME to your website, not to tell them to go get bent.

The point of the OP was that people should settle down here, especially you with your high handed approach. Nalyd & Kirk don't seem to feel the need to constantly tell people to "watch it", and if you continually tell everyone to bugger off who questions your supreme will, soon you will have no one left to read your posts, and the small $$ that is made of of advertsing will dry up.

Deal with trolling however you want to, hey you're the mod. And in the long run, if that's what people want, then more power to you. However, when people raise questions about the way things happen and you pretty much tell them to go to hell, that's wrong man. And to me, it ain't worth my time. As another poster has said, there are 100000 boards out there.

He told you to do what you are supposed to do before you even post here-read the guidelines, and follow them. I hardly think that meritted this rather pointless spiel. Don't like the rules-leave. No one cares.

10-05-2003, 03:58 PM

Fair enough, however I am a regular lurker of alt.sports.hockey.nhl.vancouver.canucks and there is no moderator there. There are your trollers, but they are for the most part ignored. The conversations are good, insightful and on the whole quite enjoyable to read. If one doesn't want to read a troll, one doesn't.

I'm willing to bet that that board doesn't get as many poster as this one.
I used to read and post on canuckcentral a long time ago but I stopped because it got pretty bad with the trollers.

am also a regular reader of the trade rumors board and don't find that board to be so upitty either. And that board has a lot more inflammatory material.

I'm going to have to disagree with that. The trade rumor board is pretty decent to start with except some of trade proposals threads get out of hand. They don't usually have threads for the sole purpose of starting conflict. Some of the trades proposed are obviously so ridiculous that they will evoke retorts and maybe deliberately, but I don't see a lot of "your team sucks" kind of language.

MVP

10-05-2003, 04:00 PM

He told you to do what you are supposed to do before you even post here-read the guidelines, and follow them. I hardly think that meritted this rather pointless spiel. Don't like the rules-leave. No one cares.

Well no, he does not like the rules but at the same time he still follow the rules. So why does he has to leave? I mean he has the right to post in this board even though he does not like the rules, as long as he wants to and without breaking any of the guidence. It is his right and privilage.

Mizral

10-05-2003, 04:38 PM

Deal with trolling however you want to, hey you're the mod. And in the long run, if that's what people want, then more power to you. However, when people raise questions about the way things happen and you pretty much tell them to go to hell, that's wrong man. And to me, it ain't worth my time. As another poster has said, there are 100000 boards out there.

This is the crux of this arguement.

The pro-Trolling/anti-Trolling has been hashed and rehashed to death. The posters on this website do not want trolling. You think the other boards are better off than this? No offense, but you're insane. This is one of the loosest boards. I challenge you to look around at some of the other popular team boards (Boston & Montreal) come to mind.

Problem is, on a team board, you're going to get types who just want to come here and post nonesense. You can question it all you like, but the very vast majority of this board doesn't want to see it.

Anyhow, I never said go to hell. However, the rules are pretty well etched. If you want to challenge the rule, I'm not the man to talk to. You can contact Buffaloed if you like. In fact, it's a pretty good idea. I do not mean to get heavy-handed with you, but in this particular case, particularly with the posters in which this thread was created for, any moderator on this board would have deleted that drivel.

LaVal

10-05-2003, 05:35 PM

Give me a freaking break. To compare someone saying "Jovanoski is crappy" to a racial statement is using such twisted logic there you should seriously consider a career in politics. It is someone trolling for sure, but where is the common stereotype? People out there *do* think Jovo sucks, and I am sure that they have their reasons.

it's pretty obvious i'm not comparing trolling to racism, i'm comparing the intent. the stereotype was Burke being a whiner. i was referring to the actual trolling by Kurupt and not the examples we were using.

One statement is definitely a troll and should be ignored. It's called being the bigger person. A troll is a person that says stuff to get a reaction. If no one were to react, including the mods, the troll would leave. But by anyone saying anything, the purpose of the troll has been successful. Sure ban him/her. If he really wants to troll the group, he will come back as someone else.

Ah well. Back to lurking.

if it were just that easy. you claim to frequent multiple boards so you should know that ignoring a troll does not get rid of them. in times it can make it worse... as other trolls realize there are no consiquences. and i don't care how "big" of a person you are, if someone posts trash just to piss you off eventually you lose your ability to "bite your tongue".

nobody was asking for a ban. there was the fact that not once did a mod say anything to the troll (or so we could see, perhaps he was warned in a PM). there are also alternative options. vbulletin does allow you to restrict access or remove posting privileges on individual forums.

Waveburner

10-05-2003, 05:59 PM

Well no, he does not like the rules but at the same time he still follow the rules. So why does he has to leave? I mean he has the right to post in this board even though he does not like the rules, as long as he wants to and without breaking any of the guidence. It is his right and privilage.

I didn't say he had to leave. I said if he wants to post here, he should realize what those rules are, and not make a big stink when those exact same rules are enforced. Which is exactly what he is doing. There is little point in trying to belittle the HF rules. He is obviously entitled to his opinion, I guess I just don't see a good reason to be voicing this type of complaint on the Canuck forumn.

theoil

10-06-2003, 09:06 AM

First time I've ever posted on Vancouver's board. The reason I came here is because there is a thread on the Oiler's board rating Lowe as a GM. In that thread there is a huge argument because of comments made by Canucks fans. Right in the centre of it is -you guessed it - Mizral. He wasn't monitoring this board because he was on the Oiler board calling moves made by Lowe and MacTavish various names. I came over here to see if I was being too sensitive about Mizral's fairly frequent sorties (all unflattering to the Oilers - the occassional compliment buried after a swipe) and what do I run into at the top of your board but a 'don't feed the trolls' post by the man himself.

Now I have only been a member for about 3 months and I am not going to pretend that I am somehow qualified to set standards of what constitutes trolling but I am writing to see if any of you find Mizral's opening salvo a bit over the line for a moderator on this board who is lecturing others on their behaviour. I will accept your decision.

Nice post, Lowetide.

I for one am no fan of Lowe's. He has some good sides, but has plenty bad sides to him. I feel he is on the bottom half of the GM Pool. I would rank him ahead of idiots such as Barnett & Mike O'Connell, but behind some of the less-than-shrewd such as Riseborough and McPhee.

Lowe's major weakness is that he's only average in so many areas. He's pretty hit & miss with drafting. He nailed Hemsky it looks like, and did well with Comrie & Semenov. However, there have been a lot of average to poor picks - too many perhaps. His drafting record is spotty, but I would say average.

Trading - one of Lowe's major weakness', I'd say. A good 50% of the time, Lowe seems to outright lose a trade. Worst of all, was the Doug Weight trade which essentially doomed the franchise to mediocrity for a few years. There is no spin on this one, boys and girls. All that's left to show for Doug Weight is Marty Reasoner at the moment. Trades such as the Brewer trades and Guerin trades were not bad considering the circumstances, but certainly not great.

Free agency - Lowe is pretty hit and miss here, too. You're right about Staios - that was a stroke of genius. Unfortunatly, Dopita was a stroke of idiocy.

Lowe's biggest downfall however, is the contract table. Yes, he did well with Smyth this year, but Lowe has had some serious problems. He couldn't get Weight signed when other small market teams have been able to lock up their best players (Ottawa - Alfredsson, Vancouver - Naslund, Calgary - Iginla). He signed Mike Comrie to a stupid contract, regardless of the pressure. Brewer's contract is prooving to be a touch high. The recent long-term Moreau signing looks like a bit much, Laraque too has been kept around at far too high of a salary & for far too long. And I haven't even begun on the Tommy Salo contract.

Anyhow, Lowe is alright I guess. You can't continue to use the 'Small market club' lines though, when teams such as Minnesota,Vancouver, and Ottawa are screaming past the Oilers as they remain in neutral.

One last thing: While some consider this a good move, I must say, the hiring of Craig MacTavish was perhaps his dumbest move as GM. While I know some guys like him as coach, I personally think he's just not up to snuff. One of the worst coaches in the league, even.

I guess what I am asking is how you guys would like it if one of our moderators came over here and called Burke's moves 'dumbest' and 'idiocy' while taking a swipe at our coach at the same time. Now I know this post makes points and that it doesn't deteriorate into 'did so - did not' but this is fairly indicative of how Mizral functions on our board on a pretty much daily basis. Any thoughts??

IceMelter

10-06-2003, 09:12 AM

It's constructive criticism, that's all.. it's not trolling.

I wouldn't mind if someone posted a post that long with details, if they give proof why they feel the person isn't any good.

Feel free to come in and say why you don't think Burke is a good GM, but don't say.

Burke is a whiny little boy, who do you think is the biggest whiner, Burke or Bertuzzi?

That's trolling, the other was not.

Jewelly

10-06-2003, 01:34 PM

I think this whole thread is getting out of hand and is being used for personal attack purposes.

Maybe it would be a good idea if you guys/gals took these personal issues to private messaging.

Just a thought/suggestion that's all.

LaVal

10-06-2003, 04:20 PM

quat

10-06-2003, 05:05 PM

I don't think that is trolling in the least. It's very opinionated, but it is well presented and argued. That's pretty much the tone here between the two factions that fall on either side of the Burke fence.

If an Oiler fan had written that blurb, would there be any question of it's validity? It is very critical and a bit harsh in some areas, but I don't get the feel that it's mean spirited. It sound to me like a fan who is upset at the direction a GM has taken the team.

Personally I don't think Lowe has done that bad a job, but neither has he done wonders. If the Oil play well this season, Lowe may well prove his dedractors wrong. I would agree however, with Mizrals opinion of the coach... I wouldn't be as direct, but that's not the way I post.

Jewelly

10-06-2003, 05:25 PM

theoil

10-07-2003, 10:31 AM

Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.

momentai

10-07-2003, 12:45 PM

that is just criticism. a bit harsh and controversial... yes, but still respectful of the rules.

But at what point does simple criticism go beyond simple criticism? It is one thing to judge the Oilers' organization based on facts and substantial evidence. It is quite another to make broad-sweeping generalizations without proper knowledge of the facts first.

I've noticed glaring errors in Mizral's arguments lately that have very little basis in reality. He calls Lowe's drafting spotty yet he doesn't really even know half the prospects in the oragnization besides the ones most mentioned. He makes errors in contract terms and length and glosses them over when called upon. It's things like that that irks Oilers fans like me more than anything. I've been at HF for over a year and it wasn't always like this, though, for Mizral. I wonder what changed.

Mizral

10-07-2003, 02:22 PM

But at what point does simple criticism go beyond simple criticism? It is one thing to judge the Oilers' organization based on facts and substantial evidence. It is quite another to make broad-sweeping generalizations without proper knowledge of the facts first.

I've noticed glaring errors in Mizral's arguments lately that have very little basis in reality. He calls Lowe's drafting spotty yet he doesn't really even know half the prospects in the oragnization besides the ones most mentioned. He makes errors in contract terms and length and glosses them over when called upon. It's things like that that irks Oilers fans like me more than anything. I've been at HF for over a year and it wasn't always like this, though, for Mizral. I wonder what changed.

Simple criticism becomes trolling when it becomes a post that is only made to bring people out. For instance, had I posted, 'Lowe sucks, the Oilers sucks, the Oiler fans suck', that's trolling. However, I brought up points & reasons why I thought so.

I don't know half the prospects in the organization? Okay, I know that's a hyperbole, but don't you think it's kind of strange that you are insulting me for not posting 100% accuratly when you don't, either? Do you honestly think I don't know half the Oilers prospects in the system?

I have made errors on conract terms & length, as well as mistakes in all sorts of areas. I once thought Josh Holden would turn into Jeremy Roenick. However, just because I do not post with spot on accuracy does not mean I am trolling or deserved to be crapped on. Everyone makes mistakse. The boards are not restricted to people who have photographic memories. There are no rules about making mistakes.

I've been at HF for around 3 years, there have never been fans who post with spot on accuracy. Heck, on another board, people were bringing up old posts of people saying how the Doug Weight trade was great and Marty Reasoner was gonna be a 70-point getter. They were wrong. Does that make them any less allowable to post than you?

(Besides, Momentai, I highly doubt you've gone a year on this board and made no mistakes in a post - ever. I notice you didn't note that I, later in the thread, noted I did make a mistake, and thanked the person that corrected me)

Jewelly

10-07-2003, 03:49 PM

At least Mizral has a pulse... unlike a lot of posters on this board and I'm not speaking of anyone specifically who's contributed to this thread.

Personally, I'd rather read someone's comment who displayed a bit of emotion and in the end they were proven to be wrong than some drone who did nothing but quoted the 'facts'.

But hey, that's just me. Call me an emotional rebel if you must.

momentai

10-07-2003, 04:24 PM

Simple criticism becomes trolling when it becomes a post that is only made to bring people out. For instance, had I posted, 'Lowe sucks, the Oilers sucks, the Oiler fans suck', that's trolling. However, I brought up points & reasons why I thought so.

I never once stated that you were trolling on the Oilers board. Not once. I was merely disputing the fact that your arguments were a more than simple unbiased criticism. If you feel that I implied that in any fashion I apologize. I merely wanted to point out that some of your criticisms are based on broad over-generalizations on the Oilers part and that is unfair.

I don't know half the prospects in the organization? Okay, I know that's a hyperbole, but don't you think it's kind of strange that you are insulting me for not posting 100% accuratly when you don't, either? Do you honestly think I don't know half the Oilers prospects in the system?

Frankly, yes. Heck, I don't think I know well enough about 3/5 of the prospects in the organization drafted within the last 3 years. Even Aspin probably wouldn't have total information either and he reads more about our prosects than I do. Do you really believe you know that many prosepcts in the Canucks system well enough?

Lowe and Prendergast have only been drafting for 3 years. It's think it's entirely fair to wait a while before you deem their drafting shoddy... as many of their picks are still in college or still developing overseas. It's simply way too short of a timeframe to accurately judge.

I have made errors on conract terms & length, as well as mistakes in all sorts of areas. I once thought Josh Holden would turn into Jeremy Roenick. However, just because I do not post with spot on accuracy does not mean I am trolling or deserved to be crapped on. Everyone makes mistakse. The boards are not restricted to people who have photographic memories. There are no rules about making mistakes.

That is not the issue here. Everyone does indeed make erors in regards to contract length/terms. However, it is quite a different situation to base widespread opinions on an entire organization on those errors. If you want to condemn an organization on another board, you had probably better get those facts straight first.

Heck, on another board, people were bringing up old posts of people saying how the Doug Weight trade was great and Marty Reasoner was gonna be a 70-point getter. They were wrong. Does that make them any less allowable to post than you?

As I addressed earlier, it doesn't matter that projections or contract lengths are in error by a poster. It matters when you use those errors to try and paint an organization into an entirely differently light.

(Besides, Momentai, I highly doubt you've gone a year on this board and made no mistakes in a post - ever. I notice you didn't note that I, later in the thread, noted I did make a mistake, and thanked the person that corrected me)
I never said I did. I am not wholly perfect by any means. Not even close. Well, then it's good that you thanked the person for your mistake. I'll acknowledge you here on it. But not everything is a glaring error... what if it's a generalization that isn't true for the most part or half truth? Those are not as obvious to pick out.

Look, I don't consider Lowe an elite GM like a lot of the other posters on the Oilers board. Not even close. I think he's pretty average to a little above average at this point. But the thing is that I feel he's learning the role and he's getting better at the postion than when he started.

momentai

10-07-2003, 04:26 PM

At least Mizral has a pulse... unlike a lot of posters on this board and I'm not speaking of anyone specifically who's contributed to this thread.

Personally, I'd rather read someone's comment who displayed a bit of emotion and in the end they were proven to be wrong than some drone who did nothing but quoted the 'facts'.

I've always liked you Jewelly as a poster... But if you feel that I have "no pulse" and "devoid of emotion", then I guess there's nothing I can say.

Jewelly

10-07-2003, 04:44 PM

I've always liked you Jewelly as a poster... But if you feel that I have "no pulse" and "devoid of emotion", then I guess there's nothing I can say.Oh no no no. I wasn't referring to you at all. Absolutely not.

Geesh, these messageboard mixups have been a bit of a problem for me these days hasn't it. I wasn't even thinking about you when I made my comment. Actually I was referring to 'some' posters who have recently shown up on THIS board.

It used to be much more relaxed around here. Posters got along really well, we just spouted off what we were thinking about at the moment, even if the idea was crazy; nobody jumped all over you.

Lately, I just find that a lot of the 'Nucks fans are really critical of each other. People quite quickly criticize others' comments instead of analyzing them. Others seem to think that they control what should be posted and what shouldn't and when. Sense of humour is scarce.

The once casual, friendly and fun atmosphere that once made this board stand out from others and made other posters want to visit is now tense and kind of unfriendly imo.

No momentei (sp?) my comment was in no way shape or form directed to you. ;)

10-07-2003, 05:22 PM

Lard_Lad

10-07-2003, 05:31 PM

At least Mizral has a pulse... unlike a lot of posters on this board and I'm not speaking of anyone specifically who's contributed to this thread.

Oh, so you're saying vampires, zombies, ghouls, mummies, and assorted other undead can't be good forum members just because they happen to be pulse-impaired? Pretty narrow-minded of you, young lady. *shakes head sadly*

Remember, folks, just because someone's been raised from the dead via some form of black magic and has become an unspeakably evil walking corpse doesn't mean they're incapable of discussing the Canucks. I mean, just look at Tony Gallagher.

10-07-2003, 05:38 PM

Oh, so you're saying vampires, zombies, ghouls, mummies, and assorted other undead can't be good forum members just because they happen to be pulse-impaired? Pretty narrow-minded of you, young lady. *shakes head sadly*

Remember, folks, just because someone's been raised from the dead via some form of black magic and has become an unspeakably evil walking corpse doesn't mean they're incapable of discussing the Canucks. I mean, just look at Tony Gallagher.

I thought she was referring to me because I feel like I post with little emotion most of the time and I don't crack a lot of jokes. In fact, I think I get a little too calm on these boards.

Mizral

10-07-2003, 05:58 PM

Momentai, just three points and I'm sure we can move on:

#1 - I don't think my mistakes were that grevious. Mistaking Dopita as a free agent signing when it was actually a trade, and a minor one at that, and thinking Lowe was around in the '99 draft. The fact that he wasn't only made my case stronger, I thought. But that's not an issue to get into here

#2 - You'd be surprised how close we are on this issue. You feel Lowe is average to above average. I feel he is average to below-average. Is it really so far apart?

#3 - Sports fans can get pretty relentless when it comes to defending their team, but particularly, defending their GM. Remember Calgary fans with Craig Button? It wasn't until the day he was fired when the vocal majority finally conceeded he stunk.

momentai

10-07-2003, 06:53 PM

No momentei (sp?) my comment was in no way shape or form directed to you. ;)

:) Ok, I was really just on the defensive and I guess I shouldn't have assumed that. My nick is right on the screen, Jewelly. :p How could you spell it wrong? Man, maybe I should get people to call me Don... it's my name and I guess it's shorter and easier to spell.. If you get that wrong, then there's no hope for you then. :D

Jewelly

10-07-2003, 06:54 PM

I thought she was referring to me because I feel like I post with little emotion most of the time and I don't crack a lot of jokes. In fact, I think I get a little too calm on these boards.
No, I wasn't thinking of you or anyone else specifically; just in general. The mood seems to have changed from a friendly fun board to a somewhat uptight one lately.

Maybe I just need a break away for a while. Yeah, that's probably a good idea. I think I'll take my own advice. Gotta tend to some family matters anyway.

momentai

10-07-2003, 07:02 PM

First of all, what do you mean "beyond simple criticsm"?

It is things such as these.

For example... Brian Burke is a not a very competent GM. He's already had a major holdout with Peter Schaefer where he's created animosity between a player and the team where they should have been none, and burned his bridges with Klatt, Murray Baron and Cassels.. It is probably hard on the players to want to deal with Burke as a GM when contracts roll around because of this fact. There's probably a bad feeling among the players because of this because of the treatment of their fellow teammates.

You could say that it was just my opinion... but it's not really a fair portrayal I would think. I take a couple of things that are indeed true and elevate it to something more.

momentai

10-07-2003, 07:26 PM

#1 - I don't think my mistakes were that grevious. Mistaking Dopita as a free agent signing when it was actually a trade, and a minor one at that, and thinking Lowe was around in the '99 draft. The fact that he wasn't only made my case stronger, I thought. But that's not an issue to get into here

Lowe and Prendergast began their regime in 2001 with the Hemsky draft.

Hemsky was a guy that Prendergast desperately wanted. A prospect's development time can take 3-4 years especially if they are playing overseas or in college... College is something the Oilers have focused on for a while now.

I've merely stated that it really isn't fair to judge Lowe on his drafting ability based on 3 years of drafting... How do you really judge Lowe when guys like Matt Greene is in college, Deslauriers is stil in Juniors, Kenny Smith is in college, Niinimaki is in Finland, Pouliot is in the Q, etc. You judge the quality of a drafting team from results and it's fairly early to tell one way or another at this point. You're right though. We shouldn't get into this right now.

#2 - You'd be surprised how close we are on this issue. You feel Lowe is average to above average. I feel he is average to below-average. Is it really so far apart?

No, not really surprised. But I think you might be at the lower extreme of your range and I at the higher end.

#3 - Sports fans can get pretty relentless when it comes to defending their team, but particularly, defending their GM. Remember Calgary fans with Craig Button? It wasn't until the day he was fired when the vocal majority finally conceeded he stunk.

I guess. But there were a lot of dissenters after the whole Savard debacle. Add to that their woeful performances of late, it isn't really a surprise.

I just didn't agree with these points...

"Worst of all, was the Doug Weight trade which essentially doomed the franchise to mediocrity for a few years. There is no spin on this one, boys and girls."

Doomed the franchise? It looks like the Oilers have been doing alright for the time being. Might be a little overexaggerating here to reinforce your point.

"Unfortunatly, Dopita was a stroke of idiocy."

Not especially. At the time, Lowe and the Oilers knew they needed some size at the pivot. It was certainly gamble but it didn't cost the Oilers anything significant. If it was successful and the Oilers had a competent 2nd line center, everyone would be calling Lowe a genius. The fact of the matter is that it was a low risk/high reward situation. I commend him on wanting to try and make a difference and being proactive.

"He couldn't get Weight signed when other small market teams have been able to lock up their best players (Ottawa - Alfredsson, Vancouver - Naslund, Calgary - Iginla). "

This one is horribly, horribly unfair to Lowe. All of those players are being paid less than Weight at the moment because those players wanted it... Weight wanted 8 million dollars and whether it be Burke, Muckler, or Button... I doubt any of those GMs would be able to change his mind. To single out Lowe for not being able to keep him at that price is unfair because I don't believe you could find one GM in the league that could talk Doug Weight out of getting his money especially after he saw the Roenick signing.

"Brewer's contract is prooving to be a touch high. The recent long-term Moreau signing looks like a bit much"

Brewer's contract is not bad considering the aribitration settlements to dmen this year. Berard had a fairly heft settlement as did Poti. I'm pretty sure Brewer's contract would have been in the 2.5 million dollar range as well. Moreau's signing is pretty good IMO. I don't necessarily approve of keeping Moreau around but the numbers look fine. A good third liner making 1.2 million a year looks reasonable to me.

But you're right. I hope this is the end of things. I don't mind if you post things that are negative... Heck, I was not a popular man when I was outraged at the trade deadline last year. Just make sure that you've got something that has got a lot more meat to it. :) I hope we're done here.

quat

10-07-2003, 08:54 PM

It is things such as these.

For example... Brian Burke is a not a very competent GM. He's already had a major holdout with Peter Schaefer where he's created animosity between a player and the team where they should have been none, and burned his bridges with Klatt, Murray Baron and Cassels.. It is probably hard on the players to want to deal with Burke as a GM when contracts roll around because of this fact. There's probably a bad feeling among the players because of this because of the treatment of their fellow teammates.

You could say that it was just my opinion... but it's not really a fair portrayal I would think. I take a couple of things that are indeed true and elevate it to something more.

Unfortunately, this example will not help your argument. This is pretty much verbatim what a great deal of Canuck fans say and feel about Burke! :D The thing is, those are somewhat valid points to lesser or greater degrees, so if you (not that you do agree... I understand), believe these to be important with regards to how a GM should deport himself, while I see them as inconsiquential, then we are free to disagree! One needent think less of someone just because they can't see the obviousness of our arguements.

The best thing about dissagreement over things like this is they often serve as a good sounding board for disseminating info on the team. The interesting thing about facts is they can be twisted or "interpreted" to support some fairly bizzare logic. In a good discussion, the more rational position tends to win over more readers... as is the case with the Kevin Lowe thread on the Oilers Board. I ended up feeling that Lowe actually may have more of a plan for the club, and he certainly does need more time before we should be judging his drafting. Some of his more unusual moves were done to change the organization, bring in new faces and make players aware they have to work for what they want. Sure he's crapped on himself a couple of times, but what GM hasn't?

All in all, I think these boards are pretty informative, and I think Jewelly will find things lighten up once the real games are played with more regularity. It's like we're all kids stuck in a car just about to arrive... after a three month drive! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, ;)

10-07-2003, 09:45 PM

No, I wasn't thinking of you or anyone else specifically; just in general. The mood seems to have changed from a friendly fun board to a somewhat uptight one lately.

Maybe I just need a break away for a while. Yeah, that's probably a good idea. I think I'll take my own advice. Gotta tend to some family matters anyway.

I was just kidding Jewelly, I didn't really think you were talking about me... I'm not that egocentric. I didn't really notice that the board has become uptight but then again, I haven't really posted as often as I did earlier.

I'm sure things will get better once the actual season starts.

you can't take a break now of all times.. the season has started... we need you to lead the cheer.

10-07-2003, 09:49 PM

momentai

10-08-2003, 10:43 AM

Unfortunately, this example will not help your argument. This is pretty much verbatim what a great deal of Canuck fans say and feel about Burke! :D The thing is, those are somewhat valid points to lesser or greater degrees, so if you (not that you do agree... I understand), believe these to be important with regards to how a GM should deport himself, while I see them as inconsiquential, then we are free to disagree!

I could have done much worse.. but I see your point. It's just something I personally feel is wrong.. to "twist the facts" as it were. But maybe that's just me. I think we're done here though.

Don't worry about Jewelly. She just needs her Naslund fix. :p

Burke's Evil Spirit

10-08-2003, 10:18 PM

I could have done much worse.. but I see your point. It's just something I personally feel is wrong.. to "twist the facts" as it were. But maybe that's just me. I think we're done here though.

Don't worry about Jewelly. She just needs her Naslund fix. :p

Twisting the facts out of ignorance, not malice, shouldn't be a huge problem on these boards.

theoil

10-10-2003, 10:30 AM

Twisting the facts out of ignorance, not malice, shouldn't be a huge problem on these boards.

If it were we would all have to give up our day jobs to keep current.:) I have one more thing to add to this though. When I am on the Oiler board as an Oiler forum I feel that I am entitled to post my opinions as frankly as my mood and the beer I have just finished lead me to. We are family and all have the good of the team as our number one priority. When I stray around the league to see what is happening and feel like I would like to make observations I put on my 'public politeness' hat. I don't say *&%# when I introduce myself and I don't call members or fans of other teams idiots or dumb or anything else that is inflammatory. It used to be called manners although I know that using that word dates me. So I might not like Burke's diatribes and I might think that Crawford's coaching technique gives him a shorter shelf life than other approaches but I recognize that as an 'outsider' I should either keep such opinions to myself or at least express them in a respectful manner. If you are a moderator I think the standard is even higher and that, Mizral is why you are so disliked on the Oiler board. Because you show no respect for the fact that it is our board. Who knows, maybe you will turn out to be right that our coach and GM aren't worth a pinch of pig poop but that is not the point. I might think and say that my sister is a fat lazy *&%# but even if you think it you should have enough manners to say it in a different way. Just my (and pretty much everybody else on the Oiler board's) opinion. So feel free to come visit but if you can't be civil please don't go all sensitive on us and complain that you didn't mean anything.

Mizral

10-10-2003, 11:22 AM

theoil

10-10-2003, 11:41 AM

I don't think the feelings are justified. Alluding Lowe & MacTavish to your sister is kind of strange. Example: If you liked shopping at K-Mart and I said the guy that runs K-Mart is a *****, would you instantly think I'm a jackass?

Posters (Canucks fans and others alike) have come in here and posted how they don't like Burke or Crawford. Fans need to learn how to deal with criticism in better ways than simply a 'with us or against us' philosophy.

Furthermore, while some may not like me on the Oilers board, I have received plenty of PM's saying people quite enjoy reading my posts there.

I doubt if that has happened lately. When Lowetide (Oiler Moderator) says he has had enough you gotta know that you crossed a line. He is the closest thing to a voice of reason I've ever seen on any board. But I know that you will never accept this because that is how you are.

There used to be an old joke about a mother watching a parade with her son Johnny in it. "Oh," she says as they get close to her, "everybody is out of step but my son, Johnny."

After the last little kerfuffle over on the Oilers board the nicest thing anybody had to say about you ( and pretty well everybody had something to say) is that you USED to make good posts. Maybe you should think about that.

Thalia

10-10-2003, 12:07 PM

quat

10-10-2003, 06:06 PM

I doubt if that has happened lately. When Lowetide (Oiler Moderator) says he has had enough you gotta know that you crossed a line. He is the closest thing to a voice of reason I've ever seen on any board. But I know that you will never accept this because that is how you are.

There used to be an old joke about a mother watching a parade with her son Johnny in it. "Oh," she says as they get close to her, "everybody is out of step but my son, Johnny."

After the last little kerfuffle over on the Oilers board the nicest thing anybody had to say about you ( and pretty well everybody had something to say) is that you USED to make good posts. Maybe you should think about that.

I kind of hear what you're saying about being polite and all... I suppose I tend to try and express myself in a rather more pleasant manner, but having read, and enjoyed most of what was written on the "Lowe Thread", I tend to think you are overreacting.

It seems to me that Mizral doesn't like the way Kevin Lowe has run and organized his team. He definitely was blunt with his opinion, but in doing so, came off as less than adequately informed on a couple of occassions. Though shown his errors, he still chose to stick with his original conclusion of Lowe. I found the rebutals, for the most part, to be helpful and informative and in the end, solidified my sense that though Lowe has made some mistakes, he does have a direction for the team, and is following it. What kind of discussion could be better than that? As a guy who enjoys reading around the boards, I now have a fairly good idea of what different Oilers fans think.

I guess what I'm saying, is that being blunt is not necessarily being rude, or even inconciderate. I certainly don't take someone elses opinion of the Canucks personally, especially when there may be some merit to what they are saying, and that it hastens a vigorous debate. That thread was far and away the most informative and interesting to read that I've come across lately.

I also don't really understand why being a moderator should require one to be less opinionated. Admittedly I've really only read Mizerals posts on that one thread, so he could have been worse in others... but he never said anything that I would take as personally insulting or rude.

Let's not be afraid of giving our opinions... if it is venting, then intelligent rebutals usually make the venter look shallow and or ignorant. What could be better than that?

Mizral

10-10-2003, 06:56 PM

After the last little kerfuffle over on the Oilers board the nicest thing anybody had to say about you ( and pretty well everybody had something to say) is that you USED to make good posts. Maybe you should think about that.

As quat mentioned, I love a lot of the Oiler players, love the fans - but you guys on this messageboard must learn to seperate the team from a person. Honestly, if you guys didn't know I was a Canuck fan, would you have reacted differently? I think I would have received much different reactions.

The only reason I did as you say here is because of these overreactions. I don't mind changing the way I post there.

Also, don't act like I'm so hard-headed. I have changed my mind on my own opinions often. But I'm pretty solid in my belief that I said nothing that was personally inflammatory or insulting to anyone there, yet I received insults left and right throughout the thread.