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c9orf 10-02-2003, 12:06 PM By most accounts, Freddy has had a pretty mediocre camp - and didn't stand out in the prospect tourney, either. Since the team is already light on finesse, and he is our *only* potentially flashy prospect, I had regarded him as rather important for the future.
If he isn't going to work out, he needs to be traded ASAP for a pick or another offensive-minded prospect. A mediocre year in Springfield will seriously degrade his value.
Sure, it's early to pass judgement. But dumping him like Safronov wouldn't be much fun.
roadrunner 10-02-2003, 12:52 PM Springfield is the next logical step in his career, and I think he will do well. Hopefully, he will do REALLY well!
I think its ok to give freddy some room here, he is after all coming from the WHL.
Still developing
Seems like Freddie is a slow starter if you look at this and past camps. Mr October in reverse so to speak. :p
From what I've personally seen of Sjostrom, he looks more like a two-way player in the mold of Jere Lehtinen or Martin Havlat and we should not be expecting a superstar winger in the mold of Pavel Bure. This means he's more like a 20-30 goal scorer instead of a 40+ goal scorer. He has a way to go on that two-way game as well but here is where his elite skating skills will serve him well.
PhoPhan 10-02-2003, 05:50 PM Trading Sjostrom is out of the question. It is way too early, and he had a fantastic year last year.
c9orf 10-02-2003, 11:02 PM The only "untradables" are players with no-trade clauses and huge fan favorites (to a certain extent). Neither of those adjectives apply here.
I'll go on record as suggesting that Sjostrom isn't the player we hoped for, and that trading him for his current, pre-disappointment value, would be wise. In my estimation, he is currently worth a late 1st round pick.
Consider it a "stop loss" trading move.
If I'm wrong, and Sjostrom wins the Calder, feel free to mock me. :)
roadrunner 10-02-2003, 11:14 PM I don't understand the idea of giving up on a player before he has even seen 10 games at the AHL level.
_Del_ 10-02-2003, 11:47 PM The only "untradables" are players with no-trade clauses and huge fan favorites (to a certain extent). Neither of those adjectives apply here.
I'll go on record as suggesting that Sjostrom isn't the player we hoped for, and that trading him for his current, pre-disappointment value, would be wise. In my estimation, he is currently worth a late 1st round pick.
Consider it a "stop loss" trading move.
If I'm wrong, and Sjostrom wins the Calder, feel free to mock me. :)
I don't think you'd get a late first for him, frankly, though you might... I think this is one of those cases that unless you're getting a solid NHL ready player *and this team can't afford Simpson, so an impact player is probably out of the question :rolleyes: *, you hold on to him and hope for the best... it's also pretty early to give up on him as he hasn't even been eligible to play in the A until this year...
Really it all depends on the draft year but I would doubt a team would give up a first round pick for a prospect unless they were absolutely sold on this kid. The value of draft picks in deals is higher when teams are attempting to purge salary and are looking for a ways to rationalize a deal to the local media and therefore their general fan base. There are a lot of first round picks who immediately after they are selected could not and would not be traded for a first round pick in the following draft. It all depends on team evaluations, organizational style preferences, whether they are in a rebuilding process, etc. The elite picks - players like Spezza who can play in the NHL relatively quick and after a year or two of development maintain and increase their market value. A player like Sjostrom who regressed by most accounts his first season only to rebound and meet original expectations the year after has dropped his market value considerably in the past two years. Kolanos increased his trade value after his selection by increasing his point production and through the development of a reputation as a clutch player. Eager failed to improve on very mediocre numbers last year dispite having been paired with one of the highest rated prospects in the CHL. Koreis is another prospect who's trade value has decreased due to a lack of production.
Of course any arguement to deal one of our prospects for higher draft picks also assumes that the team in question would have selected the player in the first round. Some of our earlier picks (Briere, Eager for example) quite frankly would have gone later than our selection but prior to our next selection. Long and the short of it is another team would look to pick us off and at best you might see a second round pick offered up for Sjostrom as the first round pick is still untainted by mediocre play or a lack of production.
You don't give up on kids that fast. If he had played the entire year in the AHL like Knayzev did last year and failed to show any potential then I might agree with this suggestion. I think just like a lot of Ottawa's quality euros, you give him time to develop and learn how to use his speed effectively at the pro level.
Master T 10-03-2003, 06:30 AM Eye, for once we agree. I can't believe people would even consider giving up on Freddy the Flash at this point. He has played minimal AHL games and didn't light up the WHL at first... what make people think he is the next Kovalchuk?
His game is more like a Lehtinen, but suited as a second line player.
gibber1600 10-03-2003, 07:00 PM Simmer donr now!!! He is under 20, relax.
CoyoteBaloney 10-03-2003, 11:31 PM Give the boy time to adjust to his new team. There is no reason to trade him. Besides I want to see what we got for Carney.
Give the boy time to adjust to his new team. There is no reason to trade him. Besides I want to see what we got for Carney.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
The Viking 10-04-2003, 08:38 AM Give the boy time to adjust to his new team. There is no reason to trade him. Besides I want to see what we got for Carney.
I thought we got a second round pick for Carney. Sjostrom was a first rounder.
PhoPhan 10-04-2003, 09:40 AM I thought we got a second round pick for Carney. Sjostrom was a first rounder.
We used that 2nd to trade up in the 1st round and draft Sjostrom, I believe.
The Viking 10-04-2003, 10:38 AM We used that 2nd to trade up in the 1st round and draft Sjostrom, I believe.
So Sjostrom would be our net from the 2nd rounder and our first rounder in that draft.
Guest 10-04-2003, 10:54 AM Actually it was reported today in the paper that the pick was used to draft Spiller oddly enough. And then we traded our pick to move up to grab Sjostrom.
The pick we used to select Spiller was part of the Khabulin deal which essentially stands as:
Mara
Spiller
Johnson
Ference (actually Ruslan Zainullin who was dealt with Safronov for Hordichuk who was dealt with a second round pick for Ference)
for
Khabibulin
Neckar
Safronov
2nd round pick
actually in the end it doesn't look that bad; although that is due to in part Khabibulin not really taking the next step to an elite level goaltender (mind you look at that defense) and the fact that 3 of our top 7 blueliners ended up coming from this initial transaction. Not to mention that Johnson was one of our top players last season.
CoyoteBaloney 10-04-2003, 12:01 PM You don't give up on kids that fast. If he had played the entire year in the AHL like Knayzev did last year and failed to show any potential then I might agree with this suggestion. I think just like a lot of Ottawa's quality euros, you give him time to develop and learn how to use his speed effectively at the pro level.
I can't believe are so unforgiving of a 19 year old playing in the AHL who still had 2 years left in junior.
Matzel 10-04-2003, 07:08 PM By most accounts, Freddy has had a pretty mediocre camp...If he isn't going to work out, he needs to be traded ASAP for a pick...
You are kidding, right?! :dunno:
Give the kid some time to adjust to the professional level. He tore up the 'Dub' last season and he'll be just fine, once he get's used to the play in the 'A'. Look at some of the other kids, i.e. Jaspers (22 years old), who've been with this organization much longer. They have not been able to impress enough to stick with the big club. Management is patient with them and should be patient with Sjostrom.
Rewards for the patience with young talent come in the form of seasons like Bierk in '02/'03 or Briere in '01/'02.
Sjostrom will make us all proud in a couple of years!
Dancin' Gabe rules! :bow:
c9orf 10-04-2003, 11:10 PM You are kidding, right?! :dunno:
Give the kid some time to adjust to the professional level.
Why? He is a commodity, and should be evaluated as ruthlessly and as quickly as possible. I have no emotional attachment to our current prospects.
I've seen enough to be pessimistic. And the goal of trading is to get more than you give; waiting until the weaknesses of what you are offering are apparent to the whole world is not the way to win.
And remember, trading isn't the same thing as dumping.
Why? He is a commodity, and should be evaluated as ruthlessly and as quickly as possible. I have no emotional attachment to our current prospects.
I've seen enough to be pessimistic. And the goal of trading is to get more than you give; waiting until the weaknesses of what you are offering are apparent to the whole world is not the way to win.
And remember, trading isn't the same thing as dumping.
I dont think you get it
Its like judging college applicants on their elementary school grades.
Its a non issue, I fail to see why we would trade a still developing finesse player that will make the NHL from he has shown.
foolish
PhoPhan 10-05-2003, 09:38 AM I dont think you get it
Its like judging college applicants on their elementary school grades.
Its a non issue, I fail to see why we would trade a still developing finesse player that will make the NHL from he has shown.
foolish
I agree with your logic, but Sjostrom is not a finesse player. This is a common misconception because he is so damn fast. He is about 220 lbs now, and he plays a gritty two-way game. What kind of finesse player would drop the gloves with Jordin Tootoo? I know Tootoo is only about 185, but Sjostrom was 195 at the time. Even so, you don't see a Naslund or a Kariya fighting anyone.
c9orf 10-05-2003, 11:12 AM I dont think you get it
Its like judging college applicants on their elementary school grades.
Huh? Players are continuously judged on the basis of their ongoing performance. After two training camps, two rookie tournaments, two years in junior and international play, we know a hell of a lot more about Sjostrom than we did on draft day. The third training camp is generally considered to a critical one in determining a player's career. Are you claiming that we cannot currently judge him at all, but a year from now his fate will be all but sealed? Our coaching staff is not that incompetent.
A prospect should be traded at the earliest moment that he seems likely to underachieve, in order to capture as much value as possible in a trade. If you wait until EVERYONE can see that you have a probable dud, he's worth nothing.
As I said before, I will wait to see what happens with him - but please don't try to argue that prospects cannot be traded until they've had a shot in the NHL. It happens all the time.
As I said before, I will wait to see what happens with him - but please don't try to argue that prospects cannot be traded until they've had a shot in the NHL. It happens all the time.
So If Fleury has a bad camp, the pens should trade him?
This is rediculous, he hasnt even played in the AHL yet and people want to trade him.
Gwyddbwyll 10-05-2003, 01:35 PM Sjostrom has played in the AHL - he scored a GWG on his debut last year.
PhoPhan - dont forget Freddie is still learning the game and the fighting aspect is something totally new to a European.. I remember one of his interviews when he was laughing and saying he had no idea what to do when he got involved in his first brawl. He has got character so he will stand up for himself if that's what he thinks he's supposed to do so I think its a good sign.. always liked his attitude. Hopefully wont take long for him to learn the best way to hurt the opposition is with his skill and speed not his fists.
Anyway he's about the last person I'd trade (apart from Leneveu) we have no other top class winger.. if we have to trade someone good let it be one of our centers - Kolanos, Taffe, McLeod, Podlesak, Koreis. But I think S&C has a point.. that's what Carolina were doing with Knyazev and Tanabe as eyeinthesky pointed out.
as a commodity if someone offered gaborik or more realistically staal then yes freddie's on the move....unless the deal is staggering give the kid enough time to be a valuable part of the yotes. if he bombs take your losses at that time and move on.and no i'm not comparing him to either player just making a point.
I would hate to see Barnett deal a bunch of kids and wind up like Mike Milbury who dealt an all-star line during his time in New York (Redden, Chara, Berard, Luongo, and Brewer to name a few). I personally beleive Sjostrom will play in the NHL and I'm not sure he would attract enough of a return at this time that would justify moving him.
The flipside is unless we start jetisoning some bodies off of the main squad the kids will stagnate on the farm. I think we're ok for one more year but I would anticipate that bodies will be moved to make way for the future.
CoyoteBaloney 10-06-2003, 12:00 AM The flipside is unless we start jetisoning some bodies off of the main squad the kids will stagnate on the farm. I think we're ok for one more year but I would anticipate that bodies will be moved to make way for the future.
I have been saying for months now. I think the Coyotes have planned it so that if there is no NHL season next year the prospects will still be playing together under the Coyotes instruction in Springfield. When the NHL resumes I think half the team will be those Springfield prospects. If there is no work stopage next season, the Coyotes will slowly make a few changes creating room for those very same prospects right away.
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