Drop Slegr, pick up Simpson

Waveburner
10-02-2003, 04:44 PM
Todd Simpson was exposed in the waiver draft. Looking at our current D, while it is HUGE, it is not in any way, shape or form, "intimidating". Really only Allen is a "mean" d-man, and we don't even know if Crow is willing to play him every day (he DESPISES rookie D, at least that is the impression I have gotten from him). Given Slegr's redundancy (with Sopel/Salo around), would you risk exposing Slegr to pick up Todd Simpson? Please explain why as well, or this is the last time I post a poll :p :madfire:

Jewelly
10-02-2003, 04:46 PM
Todd Simpson was exposed in the waiver draft. Looking at our current D, while it is HUGE, it is not in any way, shape or form, "intimidating". Really only Allen is a "mean" d-man, and we don't even know if Crow is willing to play him every day (he DESPISES rookie D, at least that is the impression I have gotten from him). Given Slegr's redundancy (with Sopel/Salo around), would you risk exposing Slegr to pick up Todd Simpson? Please explain why as well, or this is the last time I post a poll :p :madfire:Ummm, where's you poll?

Jewelly
10-02-2003, 04:50 PM
I voted pick up Simpson and drop Slegr like a hot potatoe b/c that's what my very knowlegable 'Nucks fans have indicated all day long.

Honestly though, I'm totally relying on the knowlege and experience of faithful Canucks' fans on this board and the majority seems to think that Simpson is better than Slegr.

cyrisweb
10-02-2003, 04:53 PM
Pick up Simpson and his toughness.. but also pick up 1.6 million for a 6th dman? Also pick up his terrible and consistant penalties?

Waveburner
10-02-2003, 04:54 PM
I voted pick up Simpson and drop Slegr like a hot potatoe b/c that's what my very knowlegable 'Nucks fans have indicated all day long.

Honestly though, I'm totally relying on the knowlege and experience of faithful Canucks' fans on this board and the majority seems to think that Simpson is better than Slegr.

Then how come there are zero votes under "Pickup Simpson, drop Slegr"? :p Liar! I banish thee to far off lands...or something...

maruk14
10-02-2003, 04:56 PM
I voted keep Slegr/Lindgren.

Simpson is a physical defenseman, but his untimely and selfish penalties outweigh the good he does, IMO. Also, Slegr is a good enough puck moving, skating defenseman to play in our system and I question how Simpson would fit in. Sure he would add toughness, but Slegr is a better player, IMO. I also think Slegr's physical play is underrated on this board and fans will be pleasantly surprised by how physical he really is. I am not saying he is a brute, but he isn't soft by any means, and is on a par with Ohlund as far as physical play goes.

Waveburner
10-02-2003, 04:56 PM
Pick up Simpson and his toughness.. but also pick up 1.6 million for a 6th dman? Also pick up his terrible and consistant penalties?

To be fair, Slegr is known for his bone-headed penalties as well...although at half the price...I don't think Burke would do it, as he has never been a risk taker really...

maruk14
10-02-2003, 04:57 PM
Given Slegr's redundancy (with Sopel/Salo around), would you risk exposing Slegr to pick up Todd Simpson? Please explain why as well, or this is the last time I post a poll :p :madfire:

So how did you vote? I assume drop Slegr for Simpson but it is not completely clear.

Waveburner
10-02-2003, 05:00 PM
So how did you vote? I assume drop Slegr for Simpson but it is not completely clear.

:joker:
Actually, I voted pickup Simpson, drop Lindgren :p it would leave us with 8 NHL d-men, but that is a great problem to have, IMO. Plus I don't think Lindgren would get taken either. It is a lot of salary though, which is why it won't happen-but I would do it.

maruk14
10-02-2003, 05:00 PM
To be fair, Slegr is known for his bone-headed penalties as well...although at half the price...I don't think Burke would do it, as he has never been a risk taker really...

True, but I think Simpson takes more. Overall, reading the Coyotes board they were split 50/50 on his being exposed, maybe slightly in favor of "Why would we do that?". The fans who won't miss him talked about his horribly untimely and selfish penalties .... Tucker like where it becomes a spectacle. Just going by what I read, not first hand knowledge as I can't stand the Coyotes so I don't watch many of their games.

Plus Slegr is a better hockey player overall.

Jewelly
10-02-2003, 05:00 PM
Then how come there are zero votes under "Pickup Simpson, drop Slegr"? :p Liar! I banish thee to far off lands...or something...
Okay, maybe it was on the main board I read it. Or maybe I dreamt it or something. I have very weird dreams these days since being on my anti-psychotic drugs. :joker:

maruk14
10-02-2003, 05:02 PM
:joker:
Actually, I voted pickup Simpson, drop Lindgren :p it would leave us with 8 NHL d-men, but that is a great problem to have, IMO. Plus I don't think Lindgren would get taken either. It is a lot of salary though, which is why it won't happen-but I would do it.

Might not be a bad move. I am certainly not completely opposed to picking up Simpson, that's for sure. 8 NHL defenseman means we could move one for that top 6 forward we are all longing for ... (maybe King will step up this year though :dunno: )

Waveburner
10-02-2003, 05:03 PM
True, but I think Simpson takes more. Overall, reading the Coyotes board they were split 50/50 on his being exposed, maybe slightly in favor of "Why would we do that?". The fans who won't miss him talked about his horribly untimely and selfish penalties .... Tucker like where it becomes a spectacle. Just going by what I read, not first hand knowledge as I can't stand the Coyotes so I don't watch many of their games.

Plus Slegr is a better hockey player overall.

I agree overall Slegr>Simpson...but I really think our D is too soft, despite how enormous it is...if Allen plays full-time, then it becomes only a minor issue. If he doesn't, I don't think many opposition forwards will be afraid of plowing into Cloutier/Hedberg.

maruk14
10-02-2003, 05:06 PM
I agree overall Slegr>Simpson...but I really think our D is too soft, despite how enormous it is...if Allen plays full-time, then it becomes only a minor issue. If he doesn't, I don't think many opposition forwards will be afraid of plowing into Cloutier/Hedberg.

Agreed on that. I just don't see us carrying 8 defenseman on the roster. If we could package up Sopel plus for a top 6 forward then picking up Simpson and managing to hang onto Allen would be brilliant. All of a sudden out overall toughness on D gets pretty good. Pipe dream though.

hackey
10-02-2003, 05:08 PM
The 'nucks pick something like 32 in the waiver draft so odds are Simpson will be pick up by someone else anyway.

Jewelly
10-02-2003, 05:12 PM
The 'nucks pick something like 32 in the waiver draft so odds are Simpson will be pick up by someone else anyway.
Reality speaks. :D

maruk14
10-02-2003, 05:49 PM
Reality speaks. :D

Yeah, but what does reality have to do with this board anyway :p :D

Waveburner
10-02-2003, 05:53 PM
Actually, most teams tend to pass the first couple rounds...also the higher salary guys rarely get picked up...

PecaFan
10-02-2003, 05:57 PM
Plus Slegr is a better hockey player overall.

I'm not so sure about that myself. Looking up Simpson's stats, I was impressed. He's put up some solid numbers on some so-so teams. And at least he's been playing, unlike Slegr with only half a season in the past two years.

They don't play the same style at all, so it's tough to compare them. But I think our defense needs Simpson's hard nosed style more than Slegr's.

Mizral
10-02-2003, 06:04 PM
'Dump Slegr'?

Sorry, do you understand how the waiver draft works?

If we were to take Todd Simpson (and his $1.1 million dollar contract or thereabouts, I should add), we would still have Slegr or Lindgren. Nobody is going to take either of those guys off waivers.

So, no, I'm not up for taking on another defensemen for another million bucks who isn't going to play. I'm not sure how good Slegr is, but Simpson really is no better than a #6 man. For $1+ million dollars, no thanks.

Waveburner
10-02-2003, 06:09 PM
'Dump Slegr'?

Sorry, do you understand how the waiver draft works?

If we were to take Todd Simpson (and his $1.1 million dollar contract or thereabouts, I should add), we would still have Slegr or Lindgren. Nobody is going to take either of those guys off waivers.

So, no, I'm not up for taking on another defensemen for another million bucks who isn't going to play. I'm not sure how good Slegr is, but Simpson really is no better than a #6 man. For $1+ million dollars, no thanks.

Actually, when the waiver discussion was brought up on the trade boards-almost everyone thought Slegr would get picked up for certain in the waiver draft if exposed. There are some hurting D's out there.

Mizral
10-02-2003, 06:19 PM
Actually, when the waiver discussion was brought up on the trade boards-almost everyone thought Slegr would get picked up for certain in the waiver draft if exposed. There are some hurting D's out there.

Lots of people thought Marty Reasoner would FOR SURE be taken by a team too.

Almost everyone thought Alexei Kovalev would get at least one good player in return.

I'll believe it when I see it.

maruk14
10-02-2003, 06:21 PM
I'm not so sure about that myself. Looking up Simpson's stats, I was impressed. He's put up some solid numbers on some so-so teams. And at least he's been playing, unlike Slegr with only half a season in the past two years.

They don't play the same style at all, so it's tough to compare them. But I think our defense needs Simpson's hard nosed style more than Slegr's.

Well, first of all, I hate the stats argument because it only tells part of the story, and you aren't going to judge a player like Simpson based on his stats because a lot of what he does doesn't show up on the stats sheet. Looking at these 2 players side by side Slegr's stats are immensely better than Simpson's. No contest.

The fact that Slegr didn't play last year in the NHL is a hollow argument as well. He was looking for a contract he didn't get. It's not like he played in Europe because he wasn't an NHL caliber player who didn't get any offers from other teams. He was just looking for more money than teams were offering so he went home. No harm in that from my perspective. I don't think because Simpson played last year in the NHL and Slegr didn't it makes Simpson a better hockey player.

Looking at skills let's break it down this way. Feel free to add any thing I missed.

Skating - Slegr
Passing - Slegr
Physical Play - Simpson
PP ability - Slegr
PK ability - Push

This doesn't necessarily mean I wouldn't like Simpson on the team because he does add some nice things, I just think as a hockey player overall Slegr is better.

Impossibles
10-02-2003, 06:24 PM
I think everybody here is under-rating slegr for some reason.

Slegr has matured into a very strong, smart defenseman. His physical game has improved a lot and his offensive skills are under-rated.

Slegr will probably put up around 35 points, which is very good for a #6 D-man.

The canucks are going to have to go for team-toughness, and the defenseman that we already have are going to have to step up the physical play and make teams fear coming into our zone.

Waveburner
10-02-2003, 06:29 PM
I think everybody here is under-rating slegr for some reason.

Slegr has matured into a very strong, smart defenseman. His physical game has improved a lot and his offensive skills are under-rated.

Slegr will probably put up around 35 points, which is very good for a #6 D-man.

The canucks are going to have to go for team-toughness, and the defenseman that we already have are going to have to step up the physical play and make teams fear coming into our zone.

I really think asking players to play unfamiliar roles is a bad idea. It bit us in the ass when Sopel tried to play more offensive. You start asking Salo/Malik/Sopel to step up the physical play, and mistakes will result.

maruk14
10-02-2003, 06:30 PM
I'm not so sure about that myself. Looking up Simpson's stats, I was impressed. He's put up some solid numbers on some so-so teams. And at least he's been playing, unlike Slegr with only half a season in the past two years.

They don't play the same style at all, so it's tough to compare them. But I think our defense needs Simpson's hard nosed style more than Slegr's.

Doesn't change the fact that Slegr is a better overall hockey player. You may think Simpson fits in better for our D, and that is certainly up for debate. I kind of ride the fence on it because I definitely feel our D needs more of a mean streak, but like I posted before, I think Slegr is underrated on this board in terms of his physical play.

I also don't buy the point that because Slegr played last year in Europe that makes Simpson better. It's not like he didn't have offers to play here. He was just looking for too much money. I could understand if he had gone home because no teams were interested in him, but that wasn't the case.

Overall as a hockey player though, in looking at all aspects of the game ... physical play, skating, shooting, and passing ... Slegr is clearly the better of the two.

Let's put it this way, if you were starting a hockey team and could start with one defenseman and you needed him to do it all (Skate, pass, shoot, play the PK, play the PP, etc.) who would you pick, Simpson or Slegr? The choice for me is pretty easy.

Waveburner
10-02-2003, 06:30 PM
Lots of people thought Marty Reasoner would FOR SURE be taken by a team too.

Almost everyone thought Alexei Kovalev would get at least one good player in return.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Fair enough...

But at 800K, I personally can't see Slegr going through waivers. Especially when other teams were interested in him this offseason.

Agree to disagree :)

maruk14
10-02-2003, 06:32 PM
If we were to take Todd Simpson (and his $1.1 million dollar contract or thereabouts, I should add), we would still have Slegr or Lindgren.

1.5, and I would be very surprised if Simpson is still a Coyote after tomorrow.

PecaFan
10-02-2003, 08:16 PM
Overall as a hockey player though, in looking at all aspects of the game ... physical play, skating, shooting, and passing ... Slegr is clearly the better of the two.

Let's put it this way, if you were starting a hockey team and could start with one defenseman and you needed him to do it all (Skate, pass, shoot, play the PK, play the PP, etc.) who would you pick, Simpson or Slegr? The choice for me is pretty easy.

Guess we'll agree to disagree on the first point. Slegr is slightly better offensively, Simpson slightly better physically and defensively.

As for point two, we're talking *#7* d-men here. Nobody starts their team with one d-man and has these guys on their list. And nobody exists in a vacuum, when it comes to choosing a *team*, you pick the guy that brings the skills that the team lacks. With a surfeit of softish, decent scoring defensive guys already here, that makes Simpson the better choice.

If I was team full of hard assed physical low scoring defensemen, then I go Slegr. But that's not our team.

Burke's Evil Spirit
10-02-2003, 09:51 PM
Almost everyone thought Alexei Kovalev would get at least one good player in return.

Rico Fata, dammit!

Anyhoo, there are some teams who are really, really hurting in the offensive d-man category. Hell, two seasons ago Baumgartner had earned a spot as a regular in Chicago, until they claimed Housley off waivers. I have no doubt Slegr would be claimed, and am reasonably certain Baumgartner will, also. He has decent offensive instincts, and could add some punch to a team like Florida's, or Chicago's, or Boston's power play. Baumgartner is a youngish, dirt cheap quick-fix.

Edit to say: I like Simpson a hell of a lot more than Slegr. He's a rock in the defensive zone, was +7 on a crappy Phoenix team last season, +20 the year before that, and also a native of North Van, and I like the idea of getting some more local boys in Canucks jerseys (rather than Avs jerseys...dammit Pierre draft more Frenchies!). That being said - $1.5 million is far too much money for what he brings. If Simpson was making $800K i'd pick him up in a heartbeat.

cyrisweb
10-03-2003, 12:00 AM
'Dump Slegr'?

Sorry, do you understand how the waiver draft works?

If we were to take Todd Simpson (and his $1.1 million dollar contract or thereabouts, I should add), we would still have Slegr or Lindgren. Nobody is going to take either of those guys off waivers.

So, no, I'm not up for taking on another defensemen for another million bucks who isn't going to play. I'm not sure how good Slegr is, but Simpson really is no better than a #6 man. For $1+ million dollars, no thanks.

Considering there is no guarantee Slegr would actually be picked up we cann't pick up Simpson.. not at 1.1 million but actually at 1.5 million according to nhlpa.com.
Although I agree that that the Canucks could use a physical dman like Simpson... not for 1.5 million though. Also the biggest knock on Simpson I have seen thus far is he is very prone for taking stupid stupid penalties.

andora
10-03-2003, 12:05 AM
i think it'd come down to who would take more bad penalties...

simpson and his losing the temper of slegr and his lazy penalties (that he can take in the defensive zone)...

i'd stick with slegr

NFITO
10-03-2003, 05:39 AM
not keeping our current defense in mind, I like Slegr better than Simpson... I think he's a better offensive dman, while still not being too bad defensively... he's a player that plays tough without dropping the gloves...

keeping our current defense in mind, I'd take Simpson over Slegr... we dont' need Slegr's offensive abilities on our defense... we have Jovo, Sopel, Salo and Ohlund who are all capable of providing offense from the back end, and Malik and Allen are also solid contributers for defensive dmen.

But I wouldn't make this move in waivers...

First of all, as mentioned, there is the salary issue ... $1.5 mill is a lot for a #6/7 guy (and he would be sharing that role with Allen, so he wouldn't be any higher)... Slegr fits that much better at his salary.

Secondly, we would have a problem with the lineup if we had 8 dmen left - none who can be sent down without clearing waivers (is this Allen's status now? that he doesn't have to be protected, but has to clear waivers before being sent down??)... even if Allen can be sent down - does this make sense for his development??

and we can't carry 8 dmen on our roster (and there is no gaurentee that Slegr would be picked)... that would present problems with our forward groups, not to mention take away a spot for guys like Reid or Kesler to have time up during the season.

dropping Lindgren also doesn't help us... then we call up Reid to take his spot, and again have 8 dmen on the roster...

another problem I see with this is chemistry and the message this sends to players.

You have Slegr here - who wanted to come to Vancouver, the team signed him as a UFA player - when other teams wanted him - and then the team just drops him to pick up another (more expensive) player... not the message that you want to send to your own players, or other players who you may want to sign in the future.

I like Simpson's intangibles, but I think it would be less of a risk to pick up such a player during the season if we see problems with our current group... or by dealing someone other than Slegr, who was just signed as a UFA... right now though we need to see what we have... Allen isn't going to be the same Allen as last season (hopefully he has progressed and developed as expected)... and we don't know yet what we really have in Slegr... the intangibles we could get from Simpson, maybe we already have here??

that's why I voted to keep things status quo.

Owen Wilson
10-03-2003, 07:01 AM
Simpson will be long gone before Vancouver picks.

Where did the canucks finish last year?

The first round is only non-playoffs teams. There's 14 picks and thern it starts once again. What pick do the Canucks have? 23?

Simpson will not be there

NFITO
10-03-2003, 07:41 AM
Simpson will be long gone before Vancouver picks.

Where did the canucks finish last year?

The first round is only non-playoffs teams. There's 14 picks and thern it starts once again. What pick do the Canucks have? 23?

Simpson will not be there

possibly..

then again, a #6 dman making $1.5mill a year might pass through without getting picked by anyone.

IceMelter
10-03-2003, 09:30 AM
Simpson is now a duck, quack quack