elias

myrocketsgotcracked
10-02-2003, 11:12 PM
hey guys, im a big elias fan, but out here on the west coast i dont get to see alot of the devils, so im wondering what happen to him the last few seasons. why was the 'A-line' broken up, and is that why elias' production plummet so much? will elias ever get back to the 90+ pts level?
any thoughts and inputs is appreciated

Brodeur
10-03-2003, 12:26 AM
As it stands, I wouldn't anticipate Elias getting 80+ points with Gomez as his centerman. Especially if he doesn't have a skilled right winger to work with. Grant Marshall was a nice pickup and worked well with them, but Marshall obviously isn't a conventional 1st liner.

I think Elias remains as skilled as he was during the days of the A-Line, but Elias has to do the majority of the goal scoring on the line now. Gomez has a below average shot whereas Arnott and Sykora both possess awesome shots.

Elias/Gomez remains a work in progress. Looks like we might see a bit Christian Berglund on the line. Hopefully he can provide the grit that Marshall brings while also bringing a little more skill to the line as well.

As for "why was the A-line broken up"? In the Devils championship DVD, Lamoriello went on to say something to the effect of "The line of Patrik Elias, Jason Arnott, and Petr Sykora was exceptional. But it seemed like they wouldn't play well unless they played together. The line itself seemed to be more of the focus than the team and I don't think you can ever have success like that."

I'm not sure I'll drink Lou's Kool-Aid on that one. I remember Arnott having to center guys like Sergei Nemchinov and Randy McKay......not exactly setting a guy up for statistical success. After losing Mogilny, Lou probably noticed the gaping hole we had at 2nd line RW. Arnott (and McKay) for N'dyk and Langenbrunner sorta fit our needs. N'dyk could theoretically replace Arnott at center, while Langenbrunner was a proven commodity as a 2nd liner RW. Arnott was also gaining somewhat of a reputation of not being a good locker room guy. He lost the alternate captain's "A" to Holik through the course of the season. Although we were reassured that this gesture was a reward for Holik more than a punishment for Arnott, it didn't seem to sit well with Arnott.

As for us trading Sykora......Sykora sat out the last couple games of the 2002 Carolina series which we eventually lost. Team officials questioned whether or not Sykora really was hurt to an extent that required him to sit out. These sort of things don't sit well with Lou.....he's had bouts in the past with guys like Oliwa and Danton over medical disputes. I also remember a grievence involving Denis Pederson a few years back also.

And I think Lou has had his eye on Jeff Friesen for awhile. I remember a few years back there was a rumor of us offering Brendan Morrison and Lyle Odelein (back when SJ had 0 right handed D) for Friesen. Again on the DVD, Lou said the Devils management had Friesen rated very high during his draft year ('94) and believed he was the perfect player for Pat Burns' system.

At the time getting Friesen and an All-Star caliber defenseman like Oleg Tverdovsky seemed like a pretty trade. I think Lou's been trying to recreate our defense from the 2000 Cup. Stevens-Rafalski, Daneyko-Niedermayer, White-Malakhov worked so beautifully during the playoffs. We lost Malakhov to free agency, got Sean O'Donnell as a rental which didn't work out. Lou then tried Andrei Zyuzin, but that didn't work immediately. Zyuzin then basically lost a roster spot with the addition of Tverdovsky........and Tverdovsky failed to click as well. And I suppose Lou envisioned that Tverdovsky would still be in his prime in a couple years when Stevens decided to retire.

The trades might look a little bad today, but at least we managed to squeeze another Cup out of it. Although I'm sure there'll be enough fans who would take Langenbrunner over Arnott straight up at this point. And Friesen outplayed Sykora in the Finals, which is just about the best way one can prove his worth.

myrocketsgotcracked
10-03-2003, 02:48 AM
cant aruge with the success the devils had over the yrs, but i cant help but wonder why they would break up the 'A-line', if they have such good chemistry, why mess with something that works? here in vancouver, we cant imagine breaking up the bertuzzi-morrison-naslund line even though we also lack secondary scoring.
do you think that elias decline production have something to do with the system burns install?

NJDevils#4
10-03-2003, 06:59 AM
The A-Line was broken up for the reasons Brodeur mentioned, as well as losing Mogilny. When Mogilny left to Toronto via free agency, that left Gomez with a mess on the 2nd line and all the pressure on the A-line. They were really bad down the stretch and Lou dealt Arnie for I guess what he thought was a great oppurtunity. I still really don't like the trade, even though I'm a fan of Langs and despite Arnott not being great in Dallas. Sykora was kind of an odd man out, didn't play D that well and questionably sat out of the playoffs. I still dream of those days when Elias Arnott and Sykora were the best line in hockey. They were equivalent to Bertuzzi, Naslund and Morrison IMO. It sucks that its gone, but we have been, and probably will be as long as Burns and/or Brodeur is here - a defense first team.

Unthinkable
10-03-2003, 09:11 AM
cant aruge with the success the devils had over the yrs, but i cant help but wonder why they would break up the 'A-line', if they have such good chemistry, why mess with something that works? here in vancouver, we cant imagine breaking up the bertuzzi-morrison-naslund line even though we also lack secondary scoring.
do you think that elias decline production have something to do with the system burns install?

The moment Lou Lamoriello detects that a distraction is becoming more and more of a teamwide disruptance over time he normally wastes no time in rectifying it. I don't really buy Elias' declining production being largely a result of Pat Burns' system last season as his numbers had fallen off drastically prior to Burns' arrival and for me Elias' problems were more centered around his wild mood swings for the first few months before demonstrating a nasty inability to get himself out of prolonged scoring slumps similar to what Nieuwendyk went through early in the season.

Elias entered last season still lamenting the loss of this former linemates in the local papers obviously still in an extremely disappointed state of mind. He'd miss an easy shot in a game and head back to the bench once again with his head hanging low ready to take it all out on his sticks. Confidence and discipline were two huge issues he battled last season while learning not to show the opponents on a nightly basis a single semblance of frustration. As soon as the other teams keyed in on Elias' continuing frustrations it was an even easier process for checking forwards to take him out of games mentally and emotionally early on. Jeff Friesen had to work on some of the exact same issues as Elias did as well.

Jason Allison was at the top of the NHL regular season scoring leaders in his first full season under Pat Burns with 33 goals, 50 assists, and 83 points playing the same system for the Bruins that the Devils did last year. His next season Allison had 76 points while his linemate Dmitri Khristich chipped in with 66 and 71 points so again I don't really feel this system has to sap anyone of their offense whatsoever. Its more a game of confidence and mental toughness in my mind.

myrocketsgotcracked
10-04-2003, 01:58 AM
i hope you are right, Unthinkable, im sure elias will eventually get his confidence back, whether that is with the devils or another team. i was kind of worry that elias lack of production was due more to lack of motivation or determination, since he already have 2 cups. i think a change of enviroment help him alot, probably help more than get him better linemates.
i know the devils dont need to trade him, but i would LOVE to see elias come over to Van, or any teams that play a more wide open style, i wonder how much pts he can put up with a more offensive teams?

Missionhockey
10-04-2003, 06:52 AM
Well what's your offer? There is no lack in motivation in Elias in my opinion. He isn't what I'd call physical but he's definately not soft. We really should get a good package for him and some people want to package him for Comrie which REALLY ticked me off. Elias is worth 2 Comries.

myrocketsgotcracked
10-04-2003, 09:21 PM
Well what's your offer? There is no lack in motivation in Elias in my opinion. He isn't what I'd call physical but he's definately not soft. We really should get a good package for him and some people want to package him for Comrie which REALLY ticked me off. Elias is worth 2 Comries.

i dont think the canucks have anything to offer that will interest NJ, and since devils have no reason to trade him, teams will have to overpay for him.
what would you guys ask for elias? a 1st line winger and a top 4 D?
a power forward?

meehan
10-04-2003, 09:44 PM
what would you guys ask for elias? a 1st line winger and a top 4 D?
a power forward?

How about the Sedin Twins?

myrocketsgotcracked
10-05-2003, 09:52 PM
How about the Sedin Twins?

do you really want the twins?? :rolleyes:
i think the sedins are untouchables, as well as naslund, bertuzzi, jovo, and ohlund
although i think a ohlund for elias trade may work

Missionhockey
10-06-2003, 05:31 AM
If the Devils had more depth on offense, I would do that in a second.

DRamones
10-06-2003, 10:19 PM
hey guys, im a big elias fan, but out here on the west coast i dont get to see alot of the devils, so im wondering what happen to him the last few seasons. why was the 'A-line' broken up, and is that why elias' production plummet so much? will elias ever get back to the 90+ pts level?
any thoughts and inputs is appreciated

Elias will get back to that form eventually. The biggest thing between last year, and the 2000 season wasn't so much the A line, but it was our second line. When we had the A line teams couldn't play there d line solely on them because we had Gomez and Mogilney lighting it up. Last year with Gomer and Elias on the same line teams put there checking lines on them and shut that line down. That's the reason other guys emerged from the Devs last year, Langenbruner, Freisen, Madden. If the Devs could get a proven 2nd line center It'll take allot of heat off Elias Gomer and you'll see much better numbers. As the Devs proved, it's all about the match ups.

myrocketsgotcracked
10-07-2003, 04:33 PM
i think the devils will need more than a second line center to help elias, they had neiwendyk last season and he didnt do much. either way i dont think elias will be back to point per game level soon, since i dont see lou acquiring more proven offenisve players to help elias out. since the devils won the cup in 2000, they lost many offensive players(mogilny, arnott, sykora, lemieux, holik, mckay) and all they have to show for them now(on the NHL roster) is freisen. theres no way lou will acquire the players to replace the ones they lost, so i guess theres no way elias will ever have the offensive support he had before.

Guttersnipe
10-07-2003, 05:02 PM
I'm I the only one who thinks Elias will have 35+ goals this season?