HOw was Hurme left available...?

Qubax
10-03-2003, 10:34 AM
It's a retorical question...which has only one answer...

There signing Horton, maybe Stewart to, but defeinetly Horton.....

Picking up Stephan Valliquette and hten losing our number 2 and 3 goalies and the salary which Hurme possessed could not have been smart move interms of goaltending but was a smart move saving money and now being able to sign Horton....

Atleast Horton will ahve a shot at 20 gaols and 40 points this year....the only possitive in this reallly

Heimy
10-03-2003, 10:55 AM
well hell, let's just waive Luongo and sign 'em both :rolleyes:

Jimmy_Panther
10-03-2003, 11:13 AM
So Hurme to Atlanta is official? What the phuck are they doing?!

sting_fan
10-03-2003, 11:21 AM
Upon first reading that Hurme had been exposed, I thought it was a misprint. As we all know, it wasn't a misprint and Hurme is no longer a Panther. Suffice it say, I wasn't exactly pleased with Dudley's decision making.

Now have a read at what TSN reports about the Panthers situation.

The Florida Panthers then lost their No. 2 goaltender, Jani Hurme, in a somewhat bizarre twist.

First, the Panthers lost goaltender Chris Mason, third on their depth chart, to the Nashville Predators. That was a straightforward transaction. Mason was available; Nashville took him.

In an apparent effort to re-stock their minor-league goaltending, the Panthers claimed netminder Steve Valiquette from the Edmonton Oilers. But after taking Valiquette, the Panthers were told they would have to drop one of their two protected goalies - either Roberto Luongo or Jani Hurme. They chose Hurme.

Atlanta apparently put in a claim on Hurme, but it was ruled the Thrashers weren't eligible to take him at that point of the draft. Ultimately, the Carolina Hurricanes selected him and traded him to Atlanta for a fourth-round pick.

That leaves the Thrashers with Byron Dafoe, Pasi Nurminen, Kari Lehtonen and Hurme on their netminding depth chart.

While it looks as though the Panthers lost their No. 2 goalie on a technicality, sources said Florida, prior to Carolina's selection, had the option of re-installing Hurme on their protected list, but opted not to. No team can lose two goalies but the Panthers decided to go ahead and let Carolina take Hurme.

Now how do you feel about Dudley, knowing that he DIDN'T have to expose Hurme after all, but chose to!

Captain8
10-03-2003, 11:42 AM
Upon first reading that Hurme had been exposed, I thought it was a misprint. As we all know, it wasn't a misprint and Hurme is no longer a Panther. Suffice it say, I wasn't exactly pleased with Dudley's decision making.

Now have a read at what TSN reports about the Panthers situation.



Now how do you feel about Dudley, knowing that he DIDN'T have to expose Hurme after all, but chose to!

Many of Dudley's moves over the past year now look like question marks because of whatever nonsense is going on in the front office. I don't know to what extent Dudley is responsible, so judging him becomes difficult. Still, Dudley should know what his directives are and plan accordingly. Today's sequence of events is the latest of a common thread that started about a month ago -- it shows no sign of careful planning.

That said, if Cohen and Co. can't even fund a relatively cheap rebuilding plan, then it's difficult to hold his employees accountable.

Now, I imagine we'll see another trade for a cheaper backup. It will be interesting to see what he will cost in salary and compensation in comparison to Hurme's salary and the 4th rounder the Canes received from Atlanta. If Dudley saves the org a few hundred thou, he may feel vindicated for not losing Novo, Bednar, or Trnka.

thestonedkoala
10-03-2003, 11:48 AM
You guys want Johan Holmqvist? You're free to take him...

PatrickRoy33
10-03-2003, 11:51 AM
Still wonder why Tampa got rid of him???? But hey, he got a BIGGER goalie....

thestonedkoala
10-03-2003, 11:53 AM
Tampa?

Ottawa ---> Florida ---> Carolina ---> Atlanta

Clash*
10-03-2003, 11:55 AM
I'm sure the behind thescenes story bout this would be quite interesting.

As much as I didn't think this team had a chance to make the playoffs this year, this pretty much seals the deal, unless Robbie goes for Fuhr's record set while Keenan was in St. Louis. Accordin to the TSN story, sounded a bit like Duds second guessed himself about exposin Hurme', but something or someone (Cohen) changed his mind. I really hope we don't have the Jerry Jones of hockey owning this franchise.

Clash*
10-03-2003, 11:56 AM
Tampa?

Ottawa ---> Florida ---> Carolina ---> Atlanta

Ottawa --> Tampa --> Florida = Rick Dudley (GM)

thestonedkoala
10-03-2003, 12:09 PM
Kay :D

PatrickRoy33
10-03-2003, 12:11 PM
Thanks ClashCitiRockr, figured the HE got a BIGGER goalie, would have helped.

Clash*
10-03-2003, 12:18 PM
::Grabbin duck huntin shotgun:: Anyone know where Alan Cohen lives? I want Bernie Kosar back runnin the ownership group. Someone who knows how to lead a real winner (God the Hurricanes got lucky against the inbrednecks last nite. Berlin sucks!)

PantherboyHTR
10-03-2003, 12:27 PM
So all in all this waiver wire draft, we lose our #2 & #3 goalies and all we get in return is.... Stephen Valliquete?!?! He could barely crack that woeful Islanders club a few seasons ago!

Jimmy_Panther
10-03-2003, 01:18 PM
So basically if Luongo becomes long-termed injured, we are screwed.

Thewbacca
10-03-2003, 01:25 PM
I hope Dudley gives the fans of south florida the true story of what happend and why. I don't wan't to be fed any bs about how this was all just "for the future".

Heimy
10-03-2003, 01:34 PM
I'm expecting our 3 beatwriters to fill us in on what REALLY happened...and I don't want anyone pulling punches.

Still, no matter what the story, this has me so angry I'm spitting nails! :rant:

Club301
10-03-2003, 01:39 PM
I'm expecting our 3 beatwriters to fill us in on what REALLY happened...and I don't want anyone pulling punches.

Still, no matter what the story, this has me so angry I'm spitting nails! :rant:


I agree. I think tomorrow's papers will have alot to say about this situation, and hopefully they can shed some light on what really happened. Regardless, what was becoming some alright goaltending depth is now back to square one again. I can't imagine us starting the year with either Valiquette or Lajuenesse as our #2.

Tommi
10-03-2003, 02:46 PM
So basically if Luongo becomes long-termed injured, we are screwed.
What? Why? I wonder why did you not get rid of Luongo and kept Hurme since Hurme is better? :D

Nah, seriously...you guys get screwed by Dudley - who does not seem to understand waiver rules at all. How many mistakes have he done already!

panthersfan4ever
10-03-2003, 04:41 PM
Guys,
I usually read your posts rather than write them but I felt compelled to write. This has to be one of the dumbest moves I've seen made in years. There has HAS to be a solution for this.
You guys will remember that Hurme was signed to a long-term contract. Why did they sign him if they were going to give him up... for FREE?!?!?!?!?!?!?
So now, it's obvious that Travis Scott isn't the answer as #2. Valiquette will be the goalie in San Antonio. Is Dudley setting up a trade of Novo or Bednar for a goalie? The glut of forwards could be relieved by trading one or two for a backup.
Here's a scenario: Could Atlanta be trading Hurme back to us? There's no way they can keep all three goalies?
I'm so confused.. .somebody shed some light?!?!

MoDo_27
10-03-2003, 04:57 PM
Lajuenesse is the answer.

The guy is decent and will be able to spot Luongo.

jol
10-03-2003, 04:59 PM
Guys,
I usually read your posts rather than write them but I felt compelled to write. This has to be one of the dumbest moves I've seen made in years. There has HAS to be a solution for this.
You guys will remember that Hurme was signed to a long-term contract. Why did they sign him if they were going to give him up... for FREE?!?!?!?!?!?!?
So now, it's obvious that Travis Scott isn't the answer as #2. Valiquette will be the goalie in San Antonio. Is Dudley setting up a trade of Novo or Bednar for a goalie? The glut of forwards could be relieved by trading one or two for a backup.
Here's a scenario: Could Atlanta be trading Hurme back to us? There's no way they can keep all three goalies?
I'm so confused.. .somebody shed some light?!?!

Maybe Dudley felt that he needs to downgrade goaltending to
the levels of defence and forwards, maybe it was a one way to save
money and then sign Horton or maybe there will be goalie trade
coming or maybe it was just mistake, who knows.
But I think Atlanta has now all the goalies of Finnish national team.

neelynugs
10-03-2003, 05:14 PM
an outsider here, but i wanted to chime in quickly. on the cursory, it looks like bad asset management. but the thing i wonder is if dudley has his eye on another goaltender that he likes better than hurme. a bunch of teams have excess goaltending, and some of them need to put a guy through waivers in order to send them to the AHL (noronen, bierk and toskala come to mind). perhaps there's more to this?

another possibility is that hurme started to become a problem to keenan, since the coach is loathe to play a backup. it's no secret that hurme believes he can be a #1 in the league, and perhaps he whined to dudley about not being able to get his chance behind luongo. i'd be interested to hear what really happened though.

Heimy
10-03-2003, 05:25 PM
I posted the following on the trade rumors board but I'll toss it up on here too. Tell me if it makes sense to you guys.


Here's what I figure. Cohen gave Dudley a mandate to lose some salary. Period! Look at some of the guys that were protected vs the guys exposed. It's a freakin' joke!

So when none of Trnka's $1 million, Novoseltsev's $877,000 or even Bednar's $500,000 was unloaded Dudley was in a jam. Still, he knew he could lose Hurme's new 3 year contract at $1.2 million. I'm not positive how many Panthers are signed beyond this season but the only one I can think of for sure is Luongo.

So what's next Cohen? Buses instead of planes? How's relocation sound? The Portland Panthers has a nice ring to it. Well go ahead! I've been in port-o-potties that smell better than this crap! :rant:

PanthersRule96
10-03-2003, 05:34 PM
I agree that it was a very stupid move, but Valiquette was a top goalie prospect for the Isles but they had too much depth. He is a very capable NHL backup and Perhaps Hurme asked to be let go to be given a chance somewhere else. Lajeunesse is capable too although he has not been playing well since the trade to FLA. When talking about competent players to fill a void, Noronen, Emery, Toskala, Kiprusoff, Irbe and other goalies to a lesser extent come to mine. I'd like Emery although Ottawa would be hard pressed to let him go, although they have Lalime, and Prusek. Noronen should be #1 on Dudleys want list.
To Buffalo- Bednar, Biron, and a 3rd rounder
To FLA- Noronen

Bednar is a great player who has had no chance to succeed. Biron, well is Biron, big, powerful, and overrated.
Noronen is a fantastic goalie but they already have him, Biron, and Miller.

PanthersRule96
10-03-2003, 05:39 PM
This is ridiculous. Where is the 10 million ownership promised to spend when they unloaded Pavel? They are two cheap to sign 3 rookies who will be well worth the money if they can reach bonuses?
Cohen wants to win he said, but if he wont even give money to a 1rst round pick that has shown he can play? Horton is a prototypical seat filler in a year or too. He is big, strong, agressive and will hit and score, something that uneducated hockey fans love to see (99 percent of S FLA hockey pop.)

Gee Wally
10-03-2003, 05:43 PM
another outsider here..

I won't pretend to know what Duddley was doing...

but in a few days, Steve Shields will most likely be bought out of his contract in Boston and then can be had as a very, very, cheap back-up.

Thunderheart
10-03-2003, 06:03 PM
This is ridiculous. Where is the 10 million ownership promised to spend when they unloaded Pavel? They are two cheap to sign 3 rookies who will be well worth the money if they can reach bonuses?
Cohen wants to win he said, but if he wont even give money to a 1rst round pick that has shown he can play? Horton is a prototypical seat filler in a year or too. He is big, strong, agressive and will hit and score, something that uneducated hockey fans love to see (99 percent of S FLA hockey pop.)

PanthersRule...Agree with you 100%. I was ridiculed on this Board earlier today for arguing that the Panthers Management is to cheap to sign Horton or Taticek & will not put the best team possible on the ice to save a few $$$. If Dudley just screwed up in the waiver draft with a knee jerk reaction to losing Mason then the Panthers are going to continue the downward death spiral; I only hope he has a rabbitt to pull out of his hat in the shape of a "true" NHL calibre Backup Goalie to Luongo.

Keanan must be spitting nails :D

thunderheart

Coolburn
10-03-2003, 06:10 PM
This is ridiculous. Where is the 10 million ownership promised to spend when they unloaded Pavel? They are two cheap to sign 3 rookies who will be well worth the money if they can reach bonuses?
Cohen wants to win he said, but if he wont even give money to a 1rst round pick that has shown he can play? Horton is a prototypical seat filler in a year or too. He is big, strong, agressive and will hit and score, something that uneducated hockey fans love to see (99 percent of S FLA hockey pop.)It was spent on Weiss, Bouwmeester, & Krajicek...not to mention the re-signing of a few other players. And remember the net gain was only $8 million due to Ulanov's $2 million salary. It seems like the rest of the money should go to signing Horton, if he's deemed by Keenan to make the team.

Coolburn
10-03-2003, 06:16 PM
While I don't like losing Hurme, I definitely see something that the rest of you have mentioned. Another backup will probably be claimed in a few days that will have to pass thru waivers. Probably someone cheaper and of the same caliber as Hurme. Personally, I'd like a guy like Bierk or Kiprusoff as our backup but it all depends on what those teams do. While many of us are upset at losing Hurme, the question I had to ask myself is "was he key to us rebuilding and getting back to the playoffs?" I was able to answer no so it wasn't as big of a deal. I think Dudley could have gotten more than a 4th rounder for him IMO but its got the smell of Cohen's dirty work all over it. Aren't we suppose to receive some kind of compensation for Carolina for the loss? And I still can't fathom how they were able to select a player from a team in the same division. Anyone care to explain that one to me? If this was the case, then why did we have to pull that crap with Biron last yr and why didn't we pick up one of the guys from TB this yr??

jol
10-03-2003, 07:01 PM
It was spent on Weiss, Bouwmeester, & Krajicek...not to mention the re-signing of a few other players. And remember the net gain was only $8 million due to Ulanov's $2 million salary. It seems like the rest of the money should go to signing Horton, if he's deemed by Keenan to make the team.

Well, you have to remember that Panthers didn't resign players like Pitlick, maybe his salary was used to pay Weiss', Bouwmeester's & Krajicek salaries. The bottomline is that at the end
of the season 2002 payroll was much higher than at the end the season 2003, so Bure's salary savings were used for management
purposes.

jol
10-03-2003, 07:11 PM
I posted the following on the trade rumors board but I'll toss it up on here too. Tell me if it makes sense to you guys.


Here's what I figure. Cohen gave Dudley a mandate to lose some salary. Period! Look at some of the guys that were protected vs the guys exposed. It's a freakin' joke!

So when none of Trnka's $1 million, Novoseltsev's $877,000 or even Bednar's $500,000 was unloaded Dudley was in a jam. Still, he knew he could lose Hurme's new 3 year contract at $1.2 million. I'm not positive how many Panthers are signed beyond this season but the only one I can think of for sure is Luongo.

So what's next Cohen? Buses instead of planes? How's relocation sound? The Portland Panthers has a nice ring to it. Well go ahead! I've been in port-o-potties that smell better than this crap! :rant:

I'm sure that owners are having some bad times, soon they have to
release the second year fiscal results and even if the payroll was
lower at 2003 than 2002, so maybe the fiscal year loss is only $20
million and if you think think about franchise value (Sabres, Senators), it has gone down from about $100 to $20 million.
Beware Broward county taxpayers!

jol
10-03-2003, 07:24 PM
While I don't like losing Hurme, I definitely see something that the rest of you have mentioned. Another backup will probably be claimed in a few days that will have to pass thru waivers. Probably someone cheaper and of the same caliber as Hurme. Personally, I'd like a guy like Bierk or Kiprusoff as our backup but it all depends on what those teams do. While many of us are upset at losing Hurme, the question I had to ask myself is "was he key to us rebuilding and getting back to the playoffs?" I was able to answer no so it wasn't as big of a deal. I think Dudley could have gotten more than a 4th rounder for him IMO but its got the smell of Cohen's dirty work all over it. Aren't we suppose to receive some kind of compensation for Carolina for the loss? And I still can't fathom how they were able to select a player from a team in the same division. Anyone care to explain that one to me? If this was the case, then why did we have to pull that crap with Biron last yr and why didn't we pick up one of the guys from TB this yr??

I'm sure that if it was meant that Hurme will be lost he would have
been dealt earlier, maybe to get that 4th rounder or what ever.
And i'm sure when league starts there will available backups to claim
(Bierk, Kiprusoff, Toskala etc) but so far Panther's managemt has
been saying that they have one of the best goalie tandems in the
league. Maybe it was just that Hurme suddenly became a
locker-room cancer like Skrudland, Warrener, Whitney, Mellanby, Bure etc.

Spiffy
10-03-2003, 09:55 PM
Maybe the thrash will have to expose Nurminen? But if they're smart they'll expose Dafoe, no one would take him with that hefty salary...

Spiffy
10-03-2003, 09:57 PM
Maybe it was just that Hurme suddenly became a
locker-room cancer like Skrudland, Warrener, Whitney, Mellanby, Bure etc.

I would have a hard time believing that Mr. Coca Cola could become a cancer in the locker room. In TPS he was know to have a great attitude and sometimes even providing leadership (!) in the lockerroom. At the contrary from most finns Hurme also is pretty talkative.

PanthersRule96
10-04-2003, 04:20 AM
Todays sun-sentinel says that Cohen is furious at Dudley for allowing Hurme to be left unprotected. Dudley said he wasn't happy with Hurmes play and IMO Valiquette is a great backup who is 2-0 in NHL games. Dudley never consulted Cohen but he did consult Keenan. Personally I think its a coverup to make Cohen look like he's not stingy and pin the blame on Dudley.

Dudley was just doing whats best for the team. We all know that if Cohen was consulted, he would have had Dudley dump Luongo too to save salary and have Lajeunesse and Valiquette as are duo who were part of the "best goaltending tandem in the NHL" :rolleyes: :mad:

TubbyTerrion*
10-04-2003, 08:24 AM
Todays sun-sentinel says that Cohen is furious at Dudley for allowing Hurme to be left unprotected. Dudley said he wasn't happy with Hurmes play and IMO Valiquette is a great backup who is 2-0 in NHL games:

When you start using words like "great" to describe a goaltender who has been a pro for years and has two NHL wins under his belt... it's time to re-evaluate your choice of words ;)

Yarg
10-04-2003, 08:26 AM
I think this is just bad asset management by dudley.

If salaray was an issue he he thought that masoc was going to be a better backup for the panthers this year why didn't he trade hurme for a low round draft pick before the draft.

If atlanta was willing to give up a 4th in a moments notice he could of atleast gotten a 5th before the draft if not a 4th or higher since atlanta was going to expose dafoe anyways.

Basically the only tweam that could have gotten hurme was edmonton but they didn't claim him so dudley should of just waited to after the draft and trade hurme for a 4th to atlanta or 5th.

Either way the salary is still gone wether you trade before the draft lose him in the draft or trade him after the draft. The whole thing makes no sense to me unless dudley thought that atlanta or nobody wouldn't trade for hurme and he would be stuck with his salary but as you can see there was interest.

As far as the Keenan-Dudley power struggle goes score one for Iron Mike.

PanthersRule96
10-04-2003, 12:52 PM
Before we all rip Dudley for this one, lets see what happens. He's made no bad moves for us up to yesterday and he knows what he's doing. Valiquette was an extremely high praised prospect behind Dipietro and Dudley is a world class scouter so he knows what he's doing. As most of you say "In Dudley we trust." In a situation with the Marlins only to a lesser extent...When they traded Alfonseca and Clement for WILLIS, and Tavarez, people ripped Beinfest but it turned out to save money and become a giant win for the Marlins. Valiquette may surprise alot of us here.

Darth Milbury
10-04-2003, 05:24 PM
You guys are going to be disappointed if you think "Big Valley" is anything more than a marginal NHL backup. He is big, and hard working. But, his lateral mobility is poor, and his reflexes are mediocre. He is an AHL caliber talent, a big downgrade from Hurme.

Then again, I agree with those of you who think Dudley has something else up his sleave. Also, Luongo is ready to play 65 - 70 games a year, and he is a durable player and hopefully won't a major risk for injury. So, this weekend was surprising, but it is not going to hurt the Cats much in the long run.

You guys are still set in goal and you have an excellent young defense in front of Luongo. I think FLA is going to be very competitive this year.

Swedish Bolt Fan
10-05-2003, 09:21 AM
So Hurme to Atlanta is official? What the phuck are they doing?!


Dudley in his PRIME is what i would say but to be honest this is the worst i have ever seen him done or is rumored to have tried to do.


Not sure if Dudley had a sign on his lawn saying


4th Round pick for free come and take it.

Swedish Bolt Fan
10-05-2003, 09:25 AM
Still wonder why Tampa got rid of him???? But hey, he got a BIGGER goalie....

6'3" vs 6'0" and they say size doesnt matter :)
and i dont know the math where increased salary is counted as reduced salary I mean he was FORCED to cut Hurme for salary issues, and yet he can spend more on a worse replacement