Avs/Yotes Proposal

Perhaps the Avs could address their goalie situation with Sean Burke

To Avs
Sean Burke

To Phoenix
Alex Tanguay
Riku Hahl
2nd Rounder


Avs - mak this trade to get an expericed goalie. Able to trade Tanguay and Hahl as they have enough depth at forward.

Phoenix - trade is mad to acquire muchn needed depth at forward as well as a needed scorere in Tanguay. They also get rid of one of their goalies and are able to shed some salary as well.

Thoughts ?

You have got to be kidding me.

Take out Alex Tanguay and Riku Hahl, then maybe it's feasible.

Thoughts ?

Not in a million years. A 2nd for Burke would be a fair price, perhaps some midlevel prospect thrown in. Cechmanek went for a 2nd, Hedberg for a 2nd, Hurme for a 4th.

Anyway, it is a moot point. Avs aren't going to go for Burke now if they were to be interested in him. Only way this happens is if Phoenix looks like they will miss the playoffs and the goalies Avs have both fails.

this is quite a lot for a 36 year old goaltender, in his last year under contract, that missed most of the season last year due to injury, and has had no success in the playoffs. *all I'm saying*

The 2nd rounder is fair.

Cechmanek went for a 2nd, Hedberg for a 2nd, Hurme for a 4th.


And Burke is much better than all of them. I would also decline from the Coyotes perspective. Hahl brings nothing to the Coyotes, and I feel Tanguay is overrated. While it would be nice to shed some more salary, Burke is the difference for the Coyotes between playoffs and golf. The Coyotes current roster is overflowing, anyway, so unless they are getting rid of a roster player, they probably won't acquire anyone who can't play for Springfield (Ballard, Johansson, Liles, Boychuk, etc.)

And Burke is much better than all of them. I would also decline from the Coyotes perspective. Hahl brings nothing to the Coyotes, and I feel Tanguay is overrated. While it would be nice to shed some more salary, Burke is the difference for the Coyotes between playoffs and golf. The Coyotes current roster is overflowing, anyway, so unless they are getting rid of a roster player, they probably won't acquire anyone who can't play for Springfield (Ballard, Johansson, Liles, Boychuk, etc.)

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: If Phoenix declines this, the GM needs to be fired. This is huge overpayment for burke. Besides, you could easily grab a no. 1 goaltender from Atlanta or Cujo from Detroit.

Why in the hell would they give up Tanguay and Hahl and a 2nd rounder to get Burke when the going rate for Burke-like goalies is nowhere near that. If the Avs wanted an overaged goaltender with little playoff success they could have gotten Cujo who does have some playoff success on his resume and not had to give up anyone.

Burke may be the difference between Phoenix playing golf or exiting in the first round but that has no bearing on what value he has to Colorado or the rest of the league for that matter.

And Burke is much better than all of them. I would also decline from the Coyotes perspective. Hahl brings nothing to the Coyotes, and I feel Tanguay is overrated. While it would be nice to shed some more salary, Burke is the difference for the Coyotes between playoffs and golf. The Coyotes current roster is overflowing, anyway, so unless they are getting rid of a roster player, they probably won't acquire anyone who can't play for Springfield (Ballard, Johansson, Liles, Boychuk, etc.)


Burke might be better than all of those goalies mentioned but it still doesn't change the fact that it's a HUGE overpayment for a guy who could possibly be in his very last season in the NHL. If you think ANY team in the league is going to trade 2 solid young players for him, you're completely fooling yourself.

By the way, the coyotes aren't making the playoffs this year regardless of how well Sean Burke plays. Over the past few years, the 'yotes have traded Roenick, Tkachuk, Numminen and Khabibulin and have very little to show in return for those guys. I'm not sure what needs to be done in Phoenix (new GM? new scouting staff?) but it's not going to be pretty this year.

To Avs
Sean Burke

To Phoenix
2nd Rounder

I would think about that one.

Please.....not *ANOTHER* Burke-to-the-Avs proposal.

Perhaps the Avs could address their goalie situation with Sean Burke

To Avs
Sean Burke

To Phoenix
Alex Tanguay
Riku Hahl
2nd Rounder


Avs - mak this trade to get an expericed goalie. Able to trade Tanguay and Hahl as they have enough depth at forward.

Phoenix - trade is mad to acquire muchn needed depth at forward as well as a needed scorere in Tanguay. They also get rid of one of their goalies and are able to shed some salary as well.

Thoughts ?

I expect the Avs to get an experienced starting goalie before Christmas and I believe Burke is one of the players they would be interested in. But not at this price. The goalie market is way too soft for the Avs to pay this much for Burke.

During the draft there was a pretty strong rumor that Boston turned down an offer from Phoenix for their first round pick for Burke. I think a 2nd for Burke would be quite fair. Maybe toss in a roll player or 2nd tier prospect but if Phoenix fans expect more they will be disappointed.

Hedberg who has playoff success only went for a second rounder. Cechmanek who has great regular season success only went for a second rounder. Burke plays on the level neither of these 2 do in either the playoffs in one case or the regular season in the other. What makes you think he will get more in a trade?

Personally I think Burke's true value is somewhere between a 2nd rounder and the original proposal (closer to the 2nd rounder, but still somewhere in between).

During the draft there was a pretty strong rumor that Boston turned down an offer from Phoenix for their first round pick for Burke. I think a 2nd for Burke would be quite fair. Maybe toss in a roll player or 2nd tier prospect but if Phoenix fans expect more they will be disappointed.

That's interesting, because I had heard a rumor that said the Coyotes turned down the deal because they wanted more than a 1st. I honestly could not care less what other teams want to pay for Burke. The reality is that if the Coyotes had the choice of either Burke or a 2nd rounder, they would quickly select Burke, as I believe most teams would do in that situation.

Burke might be better than all of those goalies mentioned but it still doesn't change the fact that it's a HUGE overpayment for a guy who could possibly be in his very last season in the NHL. If you think ANY team in the league is going to trade 2 solid young players for him, you're completely fooling yourself.

By the way, the coyotes aren't making the playoffs this year regardless of how well Sean Burke plays. Over the past few years, the 'yotes have traded Roenick, Tkachuk, Numminen and Khabibulin and have very little to show in return for those guys. I'm not sure what needs to be done in Phoenix (new GM? new scouting staff?) but it's not going to be pretty this year.

Roenick signed as a free agent with Philly.

Through the Tkachuk deal the Yotes got their first line winger, and their top prospect (Nagy and Taffe), a backup goalie (Handzus into Boucher, which is a shame), and a good prospect in Ben Eager.

Numminen did only bring in Sillinger, which yes, is disappointing.

Khabibulin brought in the team's top d-man for this year (Mara), and last season's leading scorer (Johnson), and a decent prospect in either Spiller or Podlesak.

As talented as Tkachuk and Roenick were, they accomplished about as much together as this group of Yotes will. For the above players, the Yotes got Nagy, Johnson, Mara, Sillinger, Boucher, Taffe, Eager, and either Spiller or Podlesak. Considering that these were largely salary dumps, and then comparing them to more recent salary dumps, I don't see how someone could consider these moves bad management.

It might not be all that pretty in Phoenix this season, but for the last few years the team's been focused on surviving financially till the new arena is built. They've been rebuilding, and they've got a solid core of young players. The Handzus and Numminen deals are the only ones I've been iffy on as far as the team's management goes.

As far as the Burke deal, a 2nd and an ok prospect would have me pleased. The proposal is ridiculously lopsided in the Coyotes favor, and I can't imagine any possible reason a Yotes fan wouldn't take it and run.

Avs overpay huge to get Burke. If the Avs do trade for Burke I'd expect them to get him for cheap and at the deadline. All depending on if Phoenix is in a position to make the playoffs or not.

To Colorado
Sean Burke, 3rd

To Phoenix
2nd, 3rd

I'll say this once more. The Coyotes turned down offers much better than a 2nd for Burke. They are not going to trade him unless they get much more, and certainly not for less, than a 2nd rounder. If no team wants to pay as much as the Coyotes want to move him, then he will remain a Coyote, which is fine by me, because I'd like to have them finish near the playoffs.

Roenick signed as a free agent with Philly.

If I remember correctly, Philadelphia sent Langkow to Phoenix for the 'priviledge' of talking to Roenick before the July 1st deadline.

Here is the official trade info :

Philadelphia Flyers traded Daymond Langkow to the Phoenix Coyotes for a 2nd round selection (later traded to Tampa Bay, later traded to San Jose - Dan Spang) in 2002 and a 1st round selection in 2003.

But unofficially I remember hearing that's the reason Langkow was traded to Phoenix.

I'll say this once more. The Coyotes turned down offers much better than a 2nd for Burke.
And I'll say this: PHO will not get more than a 2nd for Burke at this point.

If I remember correctly, Philadelphia sent Langkow to Phoenix for the 'priviledge' of talking to Roenick before the July 1st deadline.

Here is the official trade info :

Philadelphia Flyers traded Daymond Langkow to the Phoenix Coyotes for a 2nd round selection (later traded to Tampa Bay, later traded to San Jose - Dan Spang) in 2002 and a 1st round selection in 2003.

But unofficially I remember hearing that's the reason Langkow was traded to Phoenix.

Yeah it was all tied together. Makes the Yotes moves look a bit better, considering they gave up two thirds of their expensive first line to get two thirds of an inexpensive first line, which includes Langkow. I tried to keep it simple though and leave Langkow out of it. Good observation.

Hedberg who has playoff success only went for a second rounder. Cechmanek who has great regular season success only went for a second rounder. Burke plays on the level neither of these 2 do in either the playoffs in one case or the regular season in the other. What makes you think he will get more in a trade?

Potvin "has playoff success".. how much do you think he's worth? Please. Burke has consistantly been a much better goalie than Hedberg who isnt even a starter on many teams. You're also wrong about playing at Cechmanek's level - Burke's stats do actually mirror Cechmanek's "great regular season" and he's been performing at that level for longer. The Cechmanek trade was also a poor use of assets.. everyone knew Philadelphia wanted him out prior to the trade.

As for the original trade idea, Colorado will not contemplate trading Tanguay for Burke. Tanguay only goes for someone like Khabibulin. Riku Hahl does not interest the Yotes, especially at the cost of their most important player. A 2nd alone isnt good enough reason to trade Burke. Honestly if they trade Burke for something less than solid, then no doubt should remain.. they are gunning for a lottery pick.

IMO Colorado are waiting both to evaluate Burke's form and recovery and to see how Abby/Sauve handle the load. Only if circumstances pan out (Abby flops, Burke spectacular) might they consider dealing a guy that I imagine Phoenix would be asking for - Ballard, Johansson, Boychuk, JM Liles..

If I remember correctly, Philadelphia sent Langkow to Phoenix for the 'priviledge' of talking to Roenick before the July 1st deadline.

Here is the official trade info :

Philadelphia Flyers traded Daymond Langkow to the Phoenix Coyotes for a 2nd round selection (later traded to Tampa Bay, later traded to San Jose - Dan Spang) in 2002 and a 1st round selection in 2003.

But unofficially I remember hearing that's the reason Langkow was traded to Phoenix.

No they didnt.. Jeff Carter is no small beer (!)

IMO all that happened was that Phoenix got first option to bid for Langkow who was made redundant in Philly by the Roenick signing and I think they paid full value... a first and second is a lot to pay! I dont see any 'favor' here by Philly except possibly that they didnt try to hold an auction.

Avs overpay huge to get Burke. If the Avs do trade for Burke I'd expect them to get him for cheap and at the deadline. All depending on if Phoenix is in a position to make the playoffs or not.

To Colorado
Sean Burke, 3rd

To Phoenix
2nd, 3rd

This is pathetic
The cechmanek trade has everyone thinking goalies are now practically free. Thats ********, and were playoff team with Burke in net. Removing him would leave this team DEVOID OF ANY LEADERSHIP and I wouldnt even bother watching the games anymore.

WHEN IS ANYTHING CHEAP AT THE DEADLINE? At that point if hes even healthy its going to take a 1st + prospect or a top 6 + 2nd or 3rd rounder to nab him.

Because if hes healthy, were making the playoffs in the new building. And theres no better way to kickoff a new arena than the white out, which will hype up the yotes so much and sell a ton of tickets. Everything Wayne and co could ever dream of!

The posters saying Burke is worth nothing more than a second rounder need to stop, because its not true. Management has turned down better offers, and if they wanted to dump his god damn salary they would have done it.

edit: that being said, the original proposal is fair if you take out Hahl, hes useless here.

This is pathetic
The cechmanek trade has everyone thinking goalies are now practically free. Thats ********, and were playoff team with Burke in net. Removing him would leave this team DEVOID OF ANY LEADERSHIP and I wouldnt even bother watching the games anymore.

WHEN IS ANYTHING CHEAP AT THE DEADLINE? At that point if hes even healthy its going to take a 1st + prospect or a top 6 + 2nd or 3rd rounder to nab him.

Because if hes healthy, were making the playoffs in the new building. And theres no better way to kickoff a new arena than the white out, which will hype up the yotes so much and sell a ton of tickets. Everything Wayne and co could ever dream of!

The posters saying Burke is worth nothing more than a second rounder need to stop, because its not true. Management has turned down better offers, and if they wanted to dump his god damn salary they would have done it.

edit: that being said, the original proposal is fair if you take out Hahl, hes useless here.

I'm not sure where to begin in response to this post, it is filled with such wonderfully outrageous statements.

First off, you state that if Burke is healthy, the Coyotes are a lock to make the playoffs, as if it isn't even a question. I'm not sure if you've taken a look at the depth of quality teams in the Western Conference, but even if Burke remains healthy, I wouldn't say that the Coyotes are loaded with such talent as to make the playoffs a virtual lock.

You have to figure that teams like Colorado, Dallas, Detroit, Vancouver, St. Louis, and Anaheim are all more talented teams overall than Phoenix. That leaves a healthy LA Kings squad (questionable), Edmonton, San Jose, and Minnesota in the mix for the last couple of playoff spots. That isn't even counting possible improvements from teams like Columbus and Calgary. To make the blanket statement that if Burke is healthy the Coyotes are a lock for the playoffs is fallacious at best.

Second, exactly where does the support for your argument that Burke could fetch at least 1st plus a prospect or a top two line player plus a second. I've never seen a trade like that for a 37 or 38 year rental player. Sure you have some nice trade packages put together for younger players (see e.g. Schneider and Battaglia) that will remain under contract but not for rental players. Colorado put some nice packages at the trade deadline for the likes of Bourque and Blake, but both of those particular cases involved Colorado receiving additional players (Reinprecht and Andreychuk), and Bourque and Blake were both in different stratospheres in terms of perceived value compared to Burke.

It amazes me that so many Coyotes fans (not all) cling to this belief that Burke has so much trade value with his age, salary, and recent injury history. Especially considering what the recent trade market for goaltenders has been (see e.g. Cechmanek and Hedberg). Additionally, it flies in the face of a recent big trade the Coyotes made involving Numminen. At least with Numminen he was younger, under contract for another season, and played a position where he could be expected to excel past the age of 35.

Goaltenders in particular begin to see their physical skills diminish as they advance past age 35. Fuhr, Vernon, and even Roy experienced this decline. Hasek, although still great, has seen his quickness erode. Burke has had a great season or two past the age of 35, but last season he also experienced injuries which could be red flags of his body breaking down.

Considering Burke's age and the fact that he would be a two month rental (more or less) at the trade deadline, there is simply no way that he would fetch the kind of return that you seem to expect. It is simply not grounded in any realism or sense of awareness with respect to recent trade history or the economics of the league.

Second, exactly where does the support for your argument that Burke could fetch at least 1st plus a prospect or a top two line player plus a second. I've never seen a trade like that for a 37 or 38 year rental player. Sure you have some nice trade packages put together for younger players (see e.g. Schneider and Battaglia) that will remain under contract but not for rental players. Colorado put some nice packages at the trade deadline for the likes of Bourque and Blake, but both of those particular cases involved Colorado receiving additional players (Reinprecht and Andreychuk), and Bourque and Blake were both in different stratospheres in terms of perceived value compared to Burke.




I know it has been beaten to death, but the Flyers paid much more for Adam Oates at the deadline. Personally, I think a top flight goaltender is more valuable than a #2 center. Secondly, while Blake's overall value at the deadline was much higher than Burke's, I believe Bourque's is about the same. I would not be surprised at all to see the Coyotes add something to Burke so that the other party will have something to show for it the following season. Perhaps a Ference or Hulse, to fill out the Avs last pairing and make room in Phoenix for Spiller? Or perhaps a Clearyor Gratton, but only once the season is underway and they have shown they have greatly improved.

EDIT: Just wanted to clear up about XavierX's post that when he says the Coyotes will get a top 6 and a 2nd or 3rd, I am pretty sure he doesn't mean an Avalanche top 6, because obviously their top 6 is far superior to the top 6 of any other team.

Second, exactly where does the support for your argument that Burke could fetch at least 1st plus a prospect or a top two line player plus a second. I've never seen a trade like that for a 37 or 38 year rental player. Sure you have some nice trade packages put together for younger players (see e.g. Schneider and Battaglia) that will remain under contract but not for rental players. Colorado put some nice packages at the trade deadline for the likes of Bourque and Blake, but both of those particular cases involved Colorado receiving additional players (Reinprecht and Andreychuk), and Bourque and Blake were both in different stratospheres in terms of perceived value compared to Burke.


I think MOST Coyotes fans see Burke's value to the team as more than 'market value' on goalies. It's a 'worth more to me than trade value' situation. Burke represents a slim playoff hope for the Coyotes, so they'll likely hold him -- on the otherhand, this management group has lacked anything resembling a clearthought plan, and anything is possible.
I think realistic trade expectations would be in the neighborhood of a second and a prospect. I don't think he would land Tanguay. Is it worth it for the Coyotes to deal him for a pick/prospect -- no, unless they're looking to dump even more salary, which may be the case...
If the Avs haven't resolved their netminding by the deadline (either internally or by trade),PL has a history of overpaying in deadline deals( You neglected the Fleury rental on your list of deals, also).
I don't think the Coyotes are going to get a top 6 forward, b/c I don't think they are willing to pay one... They didn't want to pay Simpson an extra 400k so why would they pay a legitimate top6 forward...?
Sad fact is they are better off trading Burke and the playoff hopes in exchange for the lottery pick they'd get in the ensuing disaster...

This is pathetic
The cechmanek trade has everyone thinking goalies are now practically free. Thats ********, and were playoff team with Burke in net. Removing him would leave this team DEVOID OF ANY LEADERSHIP and I wouldnt even bother watching the games anymore.
.

this is just all of xavierx rapped into one little package isn't it..


I know it has been beaten to death, but the Flyers paid much more for Adam Oates at the deadline.

the adam oates example can not be brought into this yet.. that example can only be brought into this debate if at the deadline, turco and hasek are both injured, while aebischer has flopped.. then you'll have three teams vying for burke's services, JUST LIKE there were several teams *phi and ott included* vying for adam oates.. philly also had just lost their top two centers, and needed one badly.. it was a combination of a team in desperate need for a healthy center and several teams vying for the same player...

that is not the case right now with so many damn goalies around the league and every team having their guy

I'm not sure where to begin in response to this post, it is filled with such wonderfully outrageous statements.

First off, you state that if Burke is healthy, the Coyotes are a lock to make the playoffs, as if it isn't even a question. I'm not sure if you've taken a look at the depth of quality teams in the Western Conference, but even if Burke remains healthy, I wouldn't say that the Coyotes are loaded with such talent as to make the playoffs a virtual lock.

You have to figure that teams like Colorado, Dallas, Detroit, Vancouver, St. Louis, and Anaheim are all more talented teams overall than Phoenix. That leaves a healthy LA Kings squad (questionable), Edmonton, San Jose, and Minnesota in the mix for the last couple of playoff spots. That isn't even counting possible improvements from teams like Columbus and Calgary. To make the blanket statement that if Burke is healthy the Coyotes are a lock for the playoffs is fallacious at best.

You do realise that we were only a few games behind the Kings as far as man games lost right? Despite that, and Burke being injured, they still challenged for a spot up until the end of last season.

In the offseason we weakened D, but improved the forward core. Now, we lost Todd Simpson so besides Doan, Burke is out only active leader. Burke is worth more than market value, he brings a few intangibles that the coyotes desperately need at the moment, so hes now going to be swept away by a 2nd round pick as you suggest.

It was his first injury prone season, a flag yes, but what if he recovers (like what he has shown so far) and puts up his same ol' numbers? I think you will see teams clamoring for him, after their experiments go haywire.

Colorado is not a lock for the playoffs, not until they solve the goaltending situation. Abby isnt ready, and Suave lacks NHL time. Burke could win a cup, mentor the goalies and retire in one fell swoop. But its not going to happen for a 2nd rounder, perhaps not even a 1st.

I think MOST Coyotes fans see Burke's value to the team as more than 'market value' on goalies. It's a 'worth more to me than trade value' situation. Burke represents a slim playoff hope for the Coyotes, so they'll likely hold him -- on the otherhand, this management group has lacked anything resembling a clearthought plan, and anything is possible.

I think realistic trade expectations would be in the neighborhood of a second and a prospect. I don't think he would land Tanguay. Is it worth it for the Coyotes to deal him for a pick/prospect -- no, unless they're looking to dump even more salary, which may be the case...

Sad fact is they are better off trading Burke and the playoff hopes in exchange for the lottery pick they'd get in the ensuing disaster...

I agree with your post. Burke isnt going to get a young NHLer like Tanguay because they will be around for years after he is gone. He wont get an low-market-value overpaid NHLer like Turgeon because Phoenix wont take the salary. That leaves prospects/picks as the only viable package. Naturally Phoenix wants blue-chippers in return. (Not the elite ones since those are virtually untradeable for anyone.. but prospects that at least have solid value and upside).

IMO Burke wont be traded for marginal players/prospects because I think everyone can recognise its utter stupidity to trade a key part of your team for nothing much. If they do that following on the heels of the Numminen/Markov trade then their intention is clear - they're going after that lottery pick.

As a Phoenix fan I hope Burke stays. He alone makes the team competitive. Although the forwards are stronger, it'll be hard to watch Boosh/Bierk behind a blueline missing Teppo, Markov and Simpson.. even a 1st or Johansson will take years to make it up to the fans.

What was that stuff that just flew out the window?

Wait, I see it...that was your credibility.

Someone ban this guy.

You can't ban people for disagreeing with you, no matter how dumb their opinions are....

If the coyotes are out of the playoff race come late february and march, then you can bet that PHO will be trying to unload Burke. I do not see how it is even conceivable that a 36 (37 in January) year old goalie getting paid 4.5 million with his contract ending this year, is worth

WHEN IS ANYTHING CHEAP AT THE DEADLINE? At that point if hes even healthy its going to take a 1st + prospect or a top 6 + 2nd or 3rd rounder to nab him.

Is it just me, or is this not pure homeristic fallacy. Burke at most has 2 years left in the tank, and that is if he does not have injury problems. Besdies this, he is an UFA next year.......why would a team give up a 1st round pick and a propsect, or a top 6 with a high draft pick for a 2 month rental.......it is simple, they will not.

Case closed.

Is it just me, or is this not pure homeristic fallacy. Burke at most has 2 years left in the tank, and that is if he does not have injury problems. Besdies this, he is an UFA next year.......why would a team give up a 1st round pick and a propsect, or a top 6 with a high draft pick for a 2 month rental.......it is simple, they will not.

Case closed.

Boston offered a first, had they added a decent prospect Barnett would have done it.

If they want to advance in the playoffs, they will. You cant win a cup with a inexperienced goaltender.

and alas, he didn't take a good deal, boston signed a different goalie to be their number one, deflating burke's value all in the same breath...

barnett shoulda woulda coulda... he made a booboo, he isn't going to get an offer like that again imo

Perhaps the Avs could address their goalie situation with Sean Burke

To Avs
Sean Burke

To Phoenix
Alex Tanguay
Riku Hahl
2nd Rounder


Avs - mak this trade to get an expericed goalie. Able to trade Tanguay and Hahl as they have enough depth at forward.

Phoenix - trade is mad to acquire muchn needed depth at forward as well as a needed scorere in Tanguay. They also get rid of one of their goalies and are able to shed some salary as well.

Thoughts ?
way too much offered from the Avalanche persepctive.

Hahl and a first for Burke, who I think will be traded before November.

Boston offered a first, had they added a decent prospect Barnett would have done it.

If they want to advance in the playoffs, they will. You cant win a cup with a inexperienced goaltender.

This was for a season, not a 2 month rental. Besides, Boston didn't bite, so the point is moot. Your basing his value on trade rumours. Even if they are legit, no one has offered anything close to what you want in return for burke.

good luck ;/

Please.....not *ANOTHER* Burke-to-the-Avs proposal.

My thoughts exactly.