Canucks need a goon?

Tatehamma
10-04-2003, 02:28 PM
I think the Canucks need a goon. Not for every game of course, but for those tilts with the Avalanche for example, when Worrell is pickin on nazzy or the sisters, or whoever..May is no Worrell or Laraque, Langdon was our big heavyweight and now its up to May. Not good enough. If we want the respect from other teams, we need more intimidation on our club.

MVP
10-04-2003, 02:29 PM
Rob Ray?

SedinFan*
10-04-2003, 02:34 PM
Rob Ray?

He's first on my list. A FA, good in the lockerroom, knows his role.

Tatehamma
10-04-2003, 02:35 PM
rob ray might be a good choice. What about Brashear? :yo:

incawg
10-04-2003, 02:36 PM
Requirements:
-Willing to make minimum or close to minimum salary (under 500k)
-Willing to sit out the majority of games
-Willing to play under 5 minutes when actually in lineup
-Willing to fight heavyweights
-Not a distraction in the locker room

MVP
10-04-2003, 02:37 PM
He's first on my list. A FA, good in the lockerroom, knows his role.


He is the best candidate if Burke does see solving the heavyheight role the main priority, i like Adam Graves too, but he is not going to solve the toughness issue, but can be an important player in the playoff.

Tatehamma
10-04-2003, 02:40 PM
who would we scratch for a goon to play.

Jewelly
10-04-2003, 02:40 PM
What about Brashear? :yo:
Aggg, you're kidding right?

Brashear trashed the 'Nucks when he went to Philly... no way on earth he comes back here.

Besides, he's got way too many legal hassles in Van. I never, ever want to see him back in a 'Nucks uniform... he was an embarrassment with all his showboating.

Never liked him when he was here... don't want him back that's for sure.

incawg
10-04-2003, 02:41 PM
Requirements:
-Willing to make minimum or close to minimum salary (under 500k)
-Willing to sit out the majority of games
-Willing to play under 5 minutes when actually in lineup
-Willing to fight heavyweights
-Not a distraction in the locker room

Rob Ray seems to fight (edit: menat to say fit...freudian slip?) all of the above. He was making 500k last year but I bet we could sign him to a 1 year deal for less. I know he's not in the same league as guys like Worrell and Laraque, but can he at least hang with them?

Tatehamma
10-04-2003, 02:43 PM
Aggg, you're kidding right?

Brashear trashed the 'Nucks when he went to Philly... no way on earth he comes back here.

Besides, he's got way too many legal hassles in Van. I never, ever want to see him back in a 'Nucks uniform... he was an embarrassment with all his showboating.

Never liked him when he was here... don't want him back that's for sure.

lol..yes i was kidding. I hate the guy.

IceMelter
10-04-2003, 02:46 PM
I would definately consider pursuing Rob Ray if he would be interested in playing here, he's the perfect solution if an enforcer is needed.

Tatehamma
10-04-2003, 02:47 PM
aren't Rob Ray and Brad May good buddies?

nucks2001
10-04-2003, 02:48 PM
Rob Ray would be a good choice.. He didn't play much with Ottawa but I remember 1 specific moment after Chris Niel fought a heavyweight, Ray was the first one there to slap him on the back and say good job. Thats the kinda guy every locker room needs.

Jewelly
10-04-2003, 02:51 PM
So, how do go about getting Rob Ray?

What's the process... who do we give up if anyone? :dunno:

SedinFan*
10-04-2003, 02:53 PM
Requirements:
-Willing to make minimum or close to minimum salary (under 500k)
-Willing to sit out the majority of games
-Willing to play under 5 minutes when actually in lineup
-Willing to fight heavyweights
-Not a distraction in the locker room

Rob Ray.

think-blue-
10-04-2003, 02:57 PM
Heh. Its funny...just today, Andy Frost (on Mojo radio in Toronto) was saying that he's heard from various sources that Tie Domi was being shopped around the league, most likely because of 1) his salary, 2) emergence of Nathan Perrott. Vancouver was mentioned as a team that *might* be interested (nothing factual based, but they were just speculating).

Think the canucks would be interested? His salary is pretty brutal, I know..but Domi is a pretty good guy to have on your 4th line - he can skate, chip in the odd goal, and he's a solid teammate. He's 10 x the player Rob Ray is, btw.

incawg
10-04-2003, 03:00 PM
Heh. Its funny...just today, Andy Frost (on Mojo radio in Toronto) was saying that he's heard from various sources that Tie Domi was being shopped around the league, most likely because of 1) his salary, 2) emergence of Nathan Perrott. Vancouver was mentioned as a team that *might* be interested (nothing factual based, but they were just speculating).

Think the canucks would be interested? His salary is pretty brutal, I know..but Domi is a pretty good guy to have on your 4th line - he can skate, chip in the odd goal, and he's a solid teammate. He's 10 x the player Rob Ray is, btw.

I don't see the canucks being interested. Domi is a lot like May (although May is more injury prone and not as good of a fighter) but more of a distraction in the locker room. We don't need (or even want) an enforcer that is going to suit up every night. We only need a guy to dress for around 20-40 games.

Domi...
-Willing to make minimum or close to minimum salary (under 500k): nope
-Willing to sit out the majority of games: nope
-Willing to play under 5 minutes when actually in lineup: doubt it
-Willing to fight heavyweights: yes
-Not a distraction in the locker room: nope

Ray...
-Willing to make minimum or close to minimum salary (under 500k): yes
-Willing to sit out the majority of games: yes
-Willing to play under 5 minutes when actually in lineup: yes
-Willing to fight heavyweights: yes
-Not a distraction in the locker room: yes

And we'd have to give up nothing to get ray.

Avery4Byng*
10-04-2003, 05:08 PM
I would love to get Ray. Good guy knows his role, team first kinda guy. I always liked Ray and May when they were in Buffalo, now those two with the Canucks would be a dream come true!

monster_bertuzzi
10-04-2003, 05:31 PM
We have the answer in 250 pound Martin Grenier.

Jovavic
10-04-2003, 05:32 PM
Jody Shelley? :dunno:

think-blue-
10-04-2003, 05:43 PM
I don't see the canucks being interested. Domi is a lot like May (although May is more injury prone and not as good of a fighter) but more of a distraction in the locker room. We don't need (or even want) an enforcer that is going to suit up every night. We only need a guy to dress for around 20-40 games.

Domi...
-Willing to make minimum or close to minimum salary (under 500k): nope
-Willing to sit out the majority of games: nope
-Willing to play under 5 minutes when actually in lineup: doubt it
-Willing to fight heavyweights: yes
-Not a distraction in the locker room: nope

Ray...
-Willing to make minimum or close to minimum salary (under 500k): yes
-Willing to sit out the majority of games: yes
-Willing to play under 5 minutes when actually in lineup: yes
-Willing to fight heavyweights: yes
-Not a distraction in the locker room: yes

And we'd have to give up nothing to get ray.

Fair enough. If that is indeed the criteria the Nucks would realistically be looking at, then I can respect that (and yes, I disagree with the notion that Tie is a 'distraction' in the locker room - for the record).

If it were up to me, you could have wade belak. Minimum salary? Yup. Sit out? Always does. He's probably willing to play for under 5 min. He fights heavy weights. Distraction? no.

Plus he can play Defense and Wing too!

Yes, Im trying to 'sell' him to you b/c I personally think he sucks!

Ironchef Chris Wok*
10-04-2003, 08:02 PM
Jody Shelley? :dunno:

He's not a bad guy.

ehc73
10-04-2003, 08:52 PM
We have the answer in 250 pound Martin Grenier.

This is Burke's answer as well. I suppose if Grenier gets his ass handed to him in his first couple of NHL fights, Burke will look for someone else. Besides, Grenier's cheaper: AHL salary when he's not playing for the big club.

leaflover
10-04-2003, 09:54 PM
You definately shouldn't have to trade for a goon that fits the previous criteria.
Hell i'll go get my ass kicked 40 times a year for 500k no prob.I might even luck out and win 1. ;)

Sign me up. :rolly:

nuksforlife
10-05-2003, 07:15 AM
Bring Back Gino!!!!!!!!!!!!1

KOMO_ROCKS
10-06-2003, 08:19 AM
Bring Back Gino!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I dont think Gino is capable of playing hockey anymore....he is pretty much done ;)

Mr Sakich
10-06-2003, 08:42 AM
it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to carry a goon this year if only to face the oilers. Mact is on laraque's case to initiate a lot more this year and torres has made the team. In a high intensity game between the nucks and the oilers, these two are going to run guys a lot.

BTW, the closest I have ever seen anyone in a fight with laraque is belak last year. Pretty much a draw.

nuksforlife
10-06-2003, 11:31 AM
I dont think Gino is capable of playing hockey anymore....he is pretty much done ;)

Just throw him on when we need him to fight then pull him off

incawg
10-06-2003, 11:42 AM
Just throw him on when we need him to fight then pull him off

Isn't that what we did with Langdon anyway?

Mess
10-06-2003, 12:30 PM
Two Words

WADE BELAK... That's what the Nucks need..

The return could even be a minor league salary dump..

Jon Burke
10-06-2003, 02:32 PM
I agree with the consensus that Rob Ray would be a solid choice. I say we sign him if our team does indeed need a goon.

Hi-wayman
10-06-2003, 02:32 PM
I really don't think we need to sign a goon to fight. After all we already have Cloutier & Bertuzzi.
:joker:

Reign Nateo
10-06-2003, 02:46 PM
What about the last goon that Canucks fans were whining about losing in the waiver draft? Former 1st round key to the Bure deal Mike Brown?

Edler Statesman*
10-06-2003, 03:11 PM
whatever happened to John Craighead?

Jewelly
10-06-2003, 03:23 PM
whatever happened to John Craighead?I think he went to play abroad... not really sure where though. Somehow England does ring a bell though. :dunno:

IceMelter
10-06-2003, 03:40 PM
Yeah he's playing for the Nottingham Panthers of the British League

He's playing well too

NYVanfan
10-07-2003, 04:52 AM
If the management wanted a goon they would have protected Langdon. He fits all the criteria, and they didn't deem him to be necessary compared to other guys on the roster. Therefore it should be obvious that we don't need to go out of our way to get another goon.

I wouldn't assume that whoever gets waived is not needed -- more like losing them would be the lesser evil.... I'm sure they weighed the costs and figured it'd be easier to replace Langdon (ie with one of the guys on this thread) than a guy like May, Ruttuu, or Slegr...

I'd tend to agree. Goons are pretty much the easiest piece of the puzzle to acquire ... esp ones you don't want to play that much.

I like Roy Ray ... is he available?

Spiffy
10-07-2003, 05:01 AM
Yeah he's playing for the Nottingham Panthers of the British League

He's playing well too I am going to see the Nottingham Panthers play on the 1st of november.

Edler Statesman*
10-07-2003, 06:29 AM
I like Roy Ray ... is he available?

Rob Ray is an unrestricted free agent (III)

Canucker
10-07-2003, 06:48 AM
I'm not sold on having a goon. I think if anyone takes any liberties with any of our star players we just have to send out Ruutu, May or Cooke to take out a star on the other side. Having some goon isn't going to stop a Worrell from going out and taking liberties, it's just going to put him in the box with our goon for 5 minutes. I think keeping a semi-skilled , 'in your face' type middleweight is better than using the spot for a plodding goon. However, if we HAD to add a heavyweight I think Rob Ray would be the best option out there due to his locker room presence.

BeantownBilly
10-11-2003, 10:43 AM
I think keeping a semi-skilled , 'in your face' type middleweight is better than using the spot for a plodding goon.



And what about the personal health of Brad May?....... May is not a player who will clutch and grab when he fights, he will stand back and throw em...... with this in mind it will be a short season for Brad when he constantly has to deal with a VERY big, TOUGH conference boasting the likes of Worrell, Parker, Shelley, Laraque etc........

Lam7825
10-12-2003, 05:20 PM
IMHO, the Nucks don't need a so-called goon. This team has good team chemistry, from what I've seen in the first two games.
Need a stand up guy? Did you see what Eddie Jo did to Isbister last night? I think that's proof that this team is ok w/ the Rob Rays of the world. And I don't think the Twins are looking like pushovers anymore either- those boys seem to be pushing their collective weight around from what I can see.....

p.s. goons are going extinct fast. look at Toronto- getting rid of Green, looking to move Domi and Tucker. they want out of the bad boy image fast. and it hurt 'em against the Habs Saturday.

does adding Krysztov Oliwa or Peter Worrell to your lineup really improve the team? I think not.

I say....just say no to goons.

galiano
10-13-2003, 07:17 AM
What about the last goon that Canucks fans were whining about losing in the waiver draft? Former 1st round key to the Bure deal Mike Brown?


First, Mike Brown can't play in the NHL. Second, our boy Grenier in Manitoba pounded Brown the other night so why look beyond Grenier for a tough guy ? And he is apparently a very tough guy. And huge too !

Avery4Byng*
10-13-2003, 07:27 AM
First, Mike Brown can't play in the NHL. Second, our boy Grenier in Manitoba pounded Brown the other night so why look beyond Grenier for a tough guy ? And he is apparently a very tough guy. And huge too !


I agree, Grenier is what we need, we can put him on the wing or on D its all good.

Edler Statesman*
10-13-2003, 09:16 AM
We haven't needed an enforcer yet (that hit on Linden probably being an exception) so I wouldn't rush to bring Grenier up quite yet, taking up a roster spot from someone else.. there's a lot of good chemistry so far and I don't think Crow wants to mess it up

Tatehamma
10-13-2003, 06:14 PM
you guys just dont understand. Put yourselves in a goons world. Your skating out there, down by 2, and you feel like running over Clouts cause you can and you know that May , Ruutu, Jovo or whoever else on the canucks roster is going to cause some ruckus afterwards...BIG DEAL! He's not scared of them. But if you have a guy like RAY or Shelley out there, im sure he will rethink the situation. Thats why a goon is needed, cause its bound to happen. And to all you that want to lose Bertuzzi, or Jovo for 5 minutes because of fighting, then your an idiot. What Jovo did against Edmonton was great to see, but it costed him an ejection, which most nights would harm the club dramatically. Thats the goons job to take care of.

BeantownBilly
10-13-2003, 06:51 PM
First, Mike Brown can't play in the NHL. Second, our boy Grenier in Manitoba pounded Brown the other night so why look beyond Grenier for a tough guy ? And he is apparently a very tough guy. And huge too !



You look beyond Grenier for a tough guy because he cant play at the NHL level....... Remember Burke saying your "tough guy" has to be able to play also?

Tatehamma
10-15-2003, 09:55 AM
good call beantown billy blastoff

Canucker
10-15-2003, 11:55 AM
you guys just dont understand. Put yourselves in a goons world. Your skating out there, down by 2, and you feel like running over Clouts cause you can and you know that May , Ruutu, Jovo or whoever else on the canucks roster is going to cause some ruckus afterwards...BIG DEAL! He's not scared of them. But if you have a guy like RAY or Shelley out there, im sure he will rethink the situation. Thats why a goon is needed, cause its bound to happen. And to all you that want to lose Bertuzzi, or Jovo for 5 minutes because of fighting, then your an idiot. What Jovo did against Edmonton was great to see, but it costed him an ejection, which most nights would harm the club dramatically. Thats the goons job to take care of.

If I'm a goon why am I afraid of ANYONE? If a goon tries to take out Cloutier he's going to take a penalty and the best way to punish them is to score on the PP. If liberties are being taken, take some back. You don't need a goon for a full time position on the Canucks. Brad May might not be a heavyweight but he's not afraid of anyone in the league. Tie Domi has had a pretty good NHL career and he is by no means a stereotypical heavyweight. If you expect a rough and physical game, call up Grenier and throw him in the lineup, otherwise I think we are fine how we are. Also, I don't like Jovo or Bert fighting but the fight against Isbister would have happened regardless of wether or not a goon was dressed. Jovo is an emotional, team guy who is going to stand up for teammates even if a goon is dressed.

BeantownBilly
10-15-2003, 02:59 PM
If I'm a goon why am I afraid of ANYONE? If a goon tries to take out Cloutier he's going to take a penalty and the best way to punish them is to score on the PP. If liberties are being taken, take some back. You don't need a goon for a full time position on the Canucks. Brad May might not be a heavyweight but he's not afraid of anyone in the league. Tie Domi has had a pretty good NHL career and he is by no means a stereotypical heavyweight. If you expect a rough and physical game, call up Grenier and throw him in the lineup, otherwise I think we are fine how we are. Also, I don't like Jovo or Bert fighting but the fight against Isbister would have happened regardless of wether or not a goon was dressed. Jovo is an emotional, team guy who is going to stand up for teammates even if a goon is dressed.



Agreed that May isn't "afraid" of anyone, but that still wont stop him from being hammered on by the league's true heavyweights.....the comment about Domi not being a stereotypical heavyweight is ridiculous, he is arguably one of the better fighters to ever play the game, regardless of his size :rolleyes: ........

BeantownBilly
10-15-2003, 03:00 PM
good call beantown billy blastoff



tx for the props Edmund Stoyles!!! :yo:

cnukfan
10-15-2003, 06:22 PM
I would like to point out that neither Detroit or Ottawa have an enforcer of heavyweight class. Are they not the favourites to play in the final or at least co-favorites? Now I like a good fight as much as anyone, but I think we have to play to our strengths which is talent. I don't want to sit anyone for a tough guy cause we seem to have an abundance of talent in the press box every night. Guys that I know can step in and perform well given the chance.

KOMO_ROCKS
10-15-2003, 09:41 PM
I would like to point out that neither Detroit or Ottawa have an enforcer of heavyweight class. Are they not the favourites to play in the final or at least co-favorites? Now I like a good fight as much as anyone, but I think we have to play to our strengths which is talent. I don't want to sit anyone for a tough guy cause we seem to have an abundance of talent in the press box every night. Guys that I know can step in and perform well given the chance.

McCarthy, Shanahan are pretty tough customers to deal with on Detroit......the good thing about both Ottawa(Neil, Philips, Ray) and Detroit (McCarthy, Shanahan, Hatcher) is that they got players that cant only fight but also play the game....with Detroit having more skilled tough guys obviously

LaVal
10-16-2003, 04:58 AM
Vancouver had the best fighter that can play hockey (Brashear) then traded him for Havlac . :joker:

:rolleyes: :lol: :rolleyes:

1.) Brashear thought he was Wayne Gretzky and stopped fighting and protecting his teammates. soft players on other teams started to push him around, and all he'd do is turn around and skate away from any physical contact. he was a HUGE cancer in the lockerroom, and a source of many cliques. after we traded him and aquired Linden shortly after, we went from one of the worst teams in the league to the best after the break.

2.) Brashear cannot play hockey. He gets scored on every time he goes out on the ice. he is completely 1-dimensional and doesn't know where his own end of the rink is or what backchecking means. he takes more stupid penalties at stupid times than any player i know.

3.) Brashear won't fight anyone as big as him or who he thinks he'll lose to (e.g. Laraque). he'll pick on washed up small enforcers like McCarthy and steer clear of the big guys.

4.) Brashear has been on the block for a whole season now in Philly and gets benched ever second game because he costs his team.

Canucker
10-16-2003, 06:50 AM
Agreed that May isn't "afraid" of anyone, but that still wont stop him from being hammered on by the league's true heavyweights.....the comment about Domi not being a stereotypical heavyweight is ridiculous, he is arguably one of the better fighters to ever play the game, regardless of his size :rolleyes: ........

*sigh* Goons generally aren't 5'10 200lbs, they are usually taller and for the most part heavier. Tie Domi isn't a stereotypical goon, i'm not saying he isn't a good fighter. Throughout his career he has been basically a middleweight fighting in the heavyweight division. For his size he's probably one of the best to lace up some skates (as much as i can't stand the guy). However I think Domi's best attribute in a fight is his concrete head, how do you hurt a guy with a melon like that?

Reign Nateo
10-16-2003, 10:49 AM
First, Mike Brown can't play in the NHL. Second, our boy Grenier in Manitoba pounded Brown the other night so why look beyond Grenier for a tough guy ? And he is apparently a very tough guy. And huge too !

I was being sarcastic and taking a jab at those Canuck fans who got all bent out of shape about losing him for nothing.

A guy I would like to see perhaps, if the Canucks decide to aquire a goon is

Chris Dingman.
6-4 235
27 years old, used to sitting until he is needed, and can go to the net a create havoc.

Probably could be had very cheaply due to him being a goon and Tampa's surplus of LWers.

Reign Nateo
10-16-2003, 12:00 PM
Jason Botterill is big too, Dingman was alright in Colorado but he was traded because he couldn't do the job properly, so why get a half assed goon, if your gonna get a goon, get a goon that can actually hold his own.

I don't think your giving Dingman enough credit here, he continually pushes his way on to a very good Tampa Bay team even though they have a superior goon in Roy in the only 4th line LW spot, I think he is a very serviceable guy to have in Langdon's old position.

Colorado traded him because they had Parker.

quat
10-16-2003, 01:42 PM
I doubt any enforcers are really "afraid " of any other enforcers, or goons or whatever. These guys mostly just injure their hands and occassionally bloody each others noses. Having a goon that can beat others or at least hold his own in todays league, gives a team the opportunity to get the crowd into the game, and to give the team some energy and focus.

It's true a goon can run your goalie, but to be honest, most of the time it's pretty much more the middle weight guys, or the ones who are abrasive that tend to play that way.

It could also just be a confidence thing. I noticed the Canucks played better last season when Langdon joined the team, because now it was clear who was going to play that roll. It's a kind of funny position, but seems to have an effect on team chemistry.