Lottery Pick?

Are the Coyotes going after the lottery pick in secret? Aiming for a valiant, hard-fought yet ultimately very unsuccessful season resulting in a very good pick - if not Ovechkin then a Evan McGrath, Rostislav Olesz or Wojtek Wolski could easily be that superstud we need in our farm.

If you think about it, its a clever way to rebuild. The stud prospect needs the least amount of time to take the NHL by storm (Mario, Heatley, Kovalchuk, latest example Staal). So surely the best way to create a winning team is to get the supporting cast in place first - a team that can grow together and gain vital experience even before the kingpin arrives to complete a dynasty. Im talking about guys like Radivojevic, Mara, Vaananen, Tanabe and company already on the team. Then you have more talented individuals like Sjostrom, Leneveu Taffe and Kolanos and potentially good role players in Eager and Koreis. We have had prospects graduating at the rate of two a year or so. This is likely set to double in the next 2-3 years even if you think some of these highly rated prospects dont make it: Taffe, Spiller, Knyazev, Podlesak, McLeod, Sjostrom, Leneveu, Koreis, Eager.

Dont let Ovechkin, Olesz or whomever struggle to lead a team short on young talent.. like Heatley and Kovalchuk struggle on Atlanta. Nash and Zherdev alone wont transform Columbus.. you need real depth like Florida and Ottawa have achieved.

Trading Markov with full knowledge they were likely to be without Numminen (since they declined the option) and getting back two talented but very raw guys. Shopping our no1 guy for Sillinger. Exposing Simpson with little regret or explanation when it was clear the guy would be snatched up. I think if we trade Burke soon, especially if it is for a marginal return, no matter what they say, they are going for a lottery pick, perhaps in the hope of a lockout and a double whammy - two successive years of low picks.

I think you might be right... It could be strategy :dunno:

Dancin' Gabe rules! :bow:

I just don't see that as an organizational strategy. For a few reasons: 1) Money. The team wants to stop the bleeding and have gone with young cheap talent. Better than journeyman cheap talent IMO. As hbk has said, keeping this team alive until the new CBA gets done is the major priority. On a side note, Barnett did a good job of ridding the team of unwanted salaries last year. Pepe and Amonte were the big ones of course. Then Teppo and Markov this summer. 2) Building with a nucleus of youth that will play together. Wayne and Barnett have talked about this publicly. 3) Ego...pride...whatever you want to call it. I don't think this management group would ice a team if they knew it would fail miserably. They want to win. I really believe in their opinion they think they can build and win at the same time. So many of the fans and media think they will finish last, I just don't think they believe that.

In the end, I think it's all about the money. If it wasn't, Teppo and Markov might still be on the team. This season might result in a lottery pick, but I don't think that's in management's thought process.

very well said greg.

mgmt hasn't necessarily done everything right in their quest of competitive and cheap.the moment burke is moved is the moment mgmt gives up on this year and this team.

still wouldn't want to be paying for my seat with what i've seen or read about this years team.

hey, if any team is making an obvious attempt to grab the best chance at getting Ovechkin, it's Mario and company.
The Pens are trying to play in the NHL with an AHL team and payroll. They're having a year-long firesale, and it's not done yet (Straka is still there, making too much $ and having too much talent). It must be horrible to be a Pens fan these days.....

I don't think the Yotes are at that level yet. It's "stop the bleeding" time, that's all. It's "build for the future" time. Hey, remember how the Nordiques sucked for years, then built up all those high draft picks and players? They turned out ok (that sucked for Quebecers tho- leaving to win in Colorado the first year!).

The Yotes are stocked for the future. And I still think they're better than a last-place finish. Not sure they're ready for a playoff run yet, but soon.

Most of the teams at the higher echelon of talent benefited from years of utter pathetic hockey and the subsequent cushy draft picks.

Colorado - Nolan, Sundin, Lindros
Detroit - Yzerman was the fourth overall pick
Ottawa - Bonk, Yashin, Berard
Dallas- Modano

I for one will not be too upset if this happens to our team this year. It is the silver lining to what is set to be a very hard and difficult year.

At least this year we still have our first round pick!

At least this year we still have our first round pick!

and maybe as many as three seconds. Ours, Dallas's (Teppo deal), and Philadelphia (Amonte deal).

still wouldn't want to be paying for my seat with what i've seen or read about this years team.

I can just about guarentee you I won't be. I'm pretty disgusted. I stopped going last year because inevitably when I attended the team seemed disinterested and lost. Why the hell would I pay good money to see that? This year is going to be worse, no matter what sunshine the ownership group continues to try to blow up our, well you know....

I started the NHL as a Los Angeles Kings fan, and depending how this team ends up, they won't be far from my favorites again. The Coyotes are very suspect in the way they are being run, and I want to give them every chance to prove this new regime. But if a few years from now the team is still going nowhere fast, making bad moves for no good of the team, I'll be going to the Coyotes games...to see the Kings away.

Sorry I have to bring this up again.. This will be the last time for at least 30 days. I will still go to games if the team plays hard and loses but they must put something exciting on the ice. Booby has proven that he can not do this. Even with JR and WAlt he demanded bland hockey. All he wants is dump and chase and to make sure we are out shot every game. We are getting a new building, we have a young team and can not afford to buy some stars to create intrest so why not change the style of of the game they play. On saturday I went to an Oilers Flames game. They are both in the same boat as the Yotes but play an upbeat style of game. The skate pass (well at least try) and hit. There was emotion and bodies flying everywhere. This is what I want from the Yotes. Not this same crap Booby tries to get them to do time after time, insanity doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result. Come on wayne, yes we are tight for cash but get us a real coach. Look at the ones that have come and gone, Booby has lost control of this team long ago..

IThe Coyotes are very suspect in the way they are being run, and I want to give them every chance to prove this new regime.

To be honest, all but the Savage signing I have really like what the management has done. Look at the overall trades, they have come out way ahead. They have the makings of a great team, they just need to grow..

I can just about guarentee you I won't be. I'm pretty disgusted. I stopped going last year because inevitably when I attended the team seemed disinterested and lost. Why the hell would I pay good money to see that? This year is going to be worse, no matter what sunshine the ownership group continues to try to blow up our, well you know....
Del- It could be worse, you could be watching a disinterested team and have Bill Wirtz as the owner. At least Wayne and Co. are not to his level yet.

Del- It could be worse, you could be watching a disinterested team and have Bill Wirtz as the owner. At least Wayne and Co. are not to his level yet.

Don't rub it in... Blackhawks fans don't need that kind of reminder... :P
On the bright side Coyotes games are still on the TV -- and I can watch the hawks games b/c I'm not in Chicago, lol!!

I am with D C on this one, if they play hard I will watch them, I hope to see some games at the new arena, the problem for me is when, hopefully next year, maybe not for a while....

If they play hard many fans will watch them. If they play hard they could make the playoffs. I think they will be playing hard.

Sorry I have to bring this up again.. This will be the last time for at least 30 days. I will still go to games if the team plays hard and loses but they must put something exciting on the ice. Booby has proven that he can not do this. Even with JR and WAlt he demanded bland hockey. All he wants is dump and chase and to make sure we are out shot every game. We are getting a new building, we have a young team and can not afford to buy some stars to create intrest so why not change the style of of the game they play. On saturday I went to an Oilers Flames game. They are both in the same boat as the Yotes but play an upbeat style of game. The skate pass (well at least try) and hit. There was emotion and bodies flying everywhere. This is what I want from the Yotes. Not this same crap Booby tries to get them to do time after time, insanity doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result. Come on wayne, yes we are tight for cash but get us a real coach. Look at the ones that have come and gone, Booby has lost control of this team long ago..

in today's NHL though does run and gun succeed? Oilers haven't had much luck making it past the first round and the Flames have been worse than the Coyotes and they at least have a franchise player in Iginla. Things will get worse before they get better but in order for management to end our endless cycle of medicrity I beleive the moves they made were required medicine. There will be a payoff. I can understand the frustration though and I acknowledge that this is a lot easier to accept coming from a fan who pays $180 (about $135 US) per year to catch all the Coyote games on tv rather than shelling out for individual tickets.

edit - another thought on the oilers. their arena supplies some of the best ice in the world versus what the coyotes are stuck with at american west. easier to ice a skill team when the conditions supply a surface where you can make or accept passes. After 5 minutes the Coyotes ice surface prevents it thus fostering the use of the dump and chase. rather than bobble the pass it is easier and causes less of a chance of a turnover if you play that style of game.

in today's NHL though does run and gun succeed? Oilers haven't had much luck making it past the first round and the Flames have been worse than the Coyotes and they at least have a franchise player in Iginla. Things will get worse before they get better but in order for management to end our endless cycle of medicrity I beleive the moves they made were required medicine. There will be a payoff. I can understand the frustration though and I acknowledge that this is a lot easier to accept coming from a fan who pays $180 (about $135 US) per year to catch all the Coyote games on tv rather than shelling out for individual tickets.

edit - another thought on the oilers. their arena supplies some of the best ice in the world versus what the coyotes are stuck with at american west. easier to ice a skill team when the conditions supply a surface where you can make or accept passes. After 5 minutes the Coyotes ice surface prevents it thus fostering the use of the dump and chase. rather than bobble the pass it is easier and causes less of a chance of a turnover if you play that style of game.

"situation will get worse before it gets better" is likely the best analogy I can think of as well. My only concern is the lack of production by our prospects and the lack of a real playing opportunity afforded the prospects seems to indicate to me anyway that mgt./coaches either don't have confidence in them or simply don't know how to bring young talent around. Podlesak got 0 games, McLeod got 10 minutes of icetime, Sjostrom got a couple of games, Lenny got 1 game I believe, Schutte gt 1 game, Bezina got 3 games and his Coyotes days appear numbered, Knayzev got 2 or 3 games and anyone that saw him and commented were not all that impressed, Taffe got a few games but averaged only around 10 min. per game and anyone that has played the game knows you can't play with any confidence or get into the game with only 10 min. of icetime. Sure Ossi has worked out to be pretty good, but not great IMO, they have mishandled Jeff Taffe's development with this constant up and down stuff and Branko is also a pretty good player but just another plummer type. Spiller will now play without minor league experience which is generally a big mistake for defensemen who usually take a year or more in the minors learning their trade but this organization is desperate to showcase some young talent so I guess all the pressure is on Spiller to perform. So to say this team will get worse before it gets better only echoes what I have been saying for the last 18 months.

I just don't see that as an organizational strategy. For a few reasons: 1) Money. . .

In the end, I think it's all about the money. If it wasn't, Teppo and Markov might still be on the team. This season might result in a lottery pick, but I don't think that's in management's thought process.

Good post Greg.. you've convinced me its not their over-riding strategy by any means.

However I would say it is still in management's thought process but maybe more as simply the fall-back position or silver lining. They dont seem to want to do things by half-measure and genuinely seem to have a lot of belief in the young players (specifically guys like Mara and Kolanos) and think they can achieve respectable success that way. And Im speculating that they think "well if it all blows up, then we go after Olesz, McGrath etc".. it all fits into their rebuilding either way.

I don't think the Yotes are at that level yet. It's "stop the bleeding" time, that's all. It's "build for the future" time. Hey, remember how the Nordiques sucked for years, then built up all those high draft picks and players?

Most of the teams at the higher echelon of talent benefited from years of utter pathetic hockey and the subsequent cushy draft picks.


Yeah but I dont think the Coyotes are headed that way.. seems to me like they have been going about rebuilding a different way or at least trying to with the young players they already have.. building the team before the superstar... instead of having a weak team around the emerging superstar.

that mgt./coaches either don't have confidence in them or simply don't know how to bring young talent around. Podlesak got 0 games, ....
..game with only 10 min. of icetime. Sure Ossi has worked out to be pretty good, but not great IMO, they have mishandled Jeff Taffe's development with this constant up and down stuff .....So to say this team will get worse before it gets better only echoes what I have been saying for the last 18 months.

So you were saying it right before the team racked up a franchise record year in points? :D

Seriously though Im not sure what your point is regarding Podlesak. I dont think its possible to argue against what they did after such serious injuries. The guy had 3 games in the AHL.. why would he be any more ready for the NHL post-concussion and a year of no hockey?

I dont see consistancy in your criticisms.. you imply its a bad idea to give Spiller lots of ice time but its also implied its a bad idea not to give Taffe or Schutte that ice time too. Its also apparently a bad idea to send Leneveu straight to the AHL after 1 game despite the facts that a) we have 4 pro goalies ahead of him b) goalies take much longer to make the jump to the NHL than defensemen and forwards. I'd really like to hear more from you what you think they actually should have done. Should Podlesak really be on the Coyotes instead of the Falcons? Should Leneveu be Burke's backup and lets send all of Boucher, Bierk and Pelletier to the Falcons?

I agree with some of your points.. I am concerned Taffe isnt adjusting well (especially when compared to the ease Kolanos made it) Knyazev has a lot to prove and Carolina certainly dont consider him an elite prospect anymore if they dealt him. But it seems you then go on to criticise every single move they've made with every prospect and contradict yourself in the process. Even if you mention successes like Vaananen and Radivojevic its in a negative manner - Vaananen's not that great and Radivojevic is just a plumber - they are still guys every other team would be happy to have.

So you were saying it right before the team racked up a franchise record year in points? :D

Seriously though Im not sure what your point is regarding Podlesak. I dont think its possible to argue against what they did after such serious injuries. The guy had 3 games in the AHL.. why would he be any more ready for the NHL post-concussion and a year of no hockey?

I dont see consistancy in your criticisms.. you imply its a bad idea to give Spiller lots of ice time but its also implied its a bad idea not to give Taffe or Schutte that ice time too. Its also apparently a bad idea to send Leneveu straight to the AHL after 1 game despite the facts that a) we have 4 pro goalies ahead of him b) goalies take much longer to make the jump to the NHL than defensemen and forwards. I'd really like to hear more from you what you think they actually should have done. Should Podlesak really be on the Coyotes instead of the Falcons? Should Leneveu be Burke's backup and lets send all of Boucher, Bierk and Pelletier to the Falcons?

I agree with some of your points.. I am concerned Taffe isnt adjusting well (especially when compared to the ease Kolanos made it) Knyazev has a lot to prove and Carolina certainly dont consider him an elite prospect anymore if they dealt him. But it seems you then go on to criticise every single move they've made with every prospect and contradict yourself in the process. Even if you mention successes like Vaananen and Radivojevic its in a negative manner - Vaananen's not that great and Radivojevic is just a plumber - they are still guys every other team would be happy to have.

I have remained consistent in my evaluation of mgt. decisions for the last 18 months since their record point season not during it. Where is your proof to discount anything I have said. I think it is great to give Spiller this kind of icetime and experience but think they should have done the same the last 2 years with all key prospects just like the Leafs have done. Yes even the Leafs prospects played almost every game and played a lot and even played with the top Leafs players. I think I explained myself well enough without having to repeat myself. Hey, I don't even like reading my own posts sometimes! But my opinions are based on facts not false hopes or blind optimism.

P.S. see thread on being a step behind the play for further explanation of my views. My hope is to see entertaining hockey and the building of a Cup contender and my opinion right now is that we are a step behind the play! I honesty do hope that changes and hope that I will have to eat crow and apologize to all of you if this team proves me wrong.

I have remained consistent in my evaluation of mgt. decisions for the last 18 months since their record point season not during it. Where is your proof to discount anything I have said. I think it is great to give Spiller this kind of icetime and experience but think they should have done the same the last 2 years with all key prospects just like the Leafs have done. Yes even the Leafs prospects played almost every game and played a lot and even played with the top Leafs players. I think I explained myself well enough without having to repeat myself. Hey, I don't even like reading my own posts sometimes! But my opinions are based on facts not false hopes or blind optimism.

You dont have to repeat yourself.. just tell me what you would have done instead with Podlesak and Leneveu for example that management didnt do? Do you honestly think Podlesak is ready for the NHL now and that Leneveu should be the #2 goalie in Phoenix right out of college?

am i alone when i say that I wouldn't be upset if we ended up with a lottery pick? What would tick me off is if we were stuck in the middle where we miss out on the top prospectws and our of the playoffs.

am i alone when i say that I wouldn't be upset if we ended up with a lottery pick? What would tick me off is if we were stuck in the middle where we miss out on the top prospectws and our of the playoffs.

You're definitely not alone. I've been saying all along that I was sceptical of the "retool on the go" strategy mainly, as you say, because we were likely to end up in the worst of situations. Outside the playoffs but only in the middle of the first round when it comes to the draft. That has happened way too often to this franchise.

am i alone when i say that I wouldn't be upset if we ended up with a lottery pick? What would tick me off is if we were stuck in the middle where we miss out on the top prospectws and our of the playoffs.

I, too, agree with this strategy, for no other reason than if we have a top 7 pick in the draft, we will be all but guaranteed a prospect who would immediately become our best (assuming someone picks one of the goalies, there is Ovechkin, Schremp, Olesz, Wolski, McGrath, and Barker).

am i alone when i say that I wouldn't be upset if we ended up with a lottery pick? What would tick me off is if we were stuck in the middle where we miss out on the top prospectws and our of the playoffs.

I'm with you. The draft and the 1st pick overall is the best way to attain that franchise player we so sorely lack. The problem is its become a lottery pick and you have to roll the dice to get that top player. Ovechkin is the real deal as I saw him myself. After him though next years draft is considered very weak. Regarding Podlesak, I would have given him a couple of games. What's the difference between letting him play AHL x-games and NHL x-games? He's either medically cleared or he isn't. Playing Lenny a few more games might have answered our question on whether or not we can trade Burke at some point this year with any kind of confidence that we have his replacement in line. Boucher, Bierk and Pellletier all appear to be destined backup style tenders. I remember the Montreal Canadians taking a chance on a kid right out of college just before the playoffs back in the early 80's. A kid named Patrick Roy and I think he won the Conn Smythe that year as they won the cup and he stole the show against Bobby Hull and company. Ironically, he to was a Cornell grad. Goalies are a different breed. Some can step right in, some take years to come around. Was Lenny ready to take over as #1? Highly unlikely but I would like to have seen him play a at least another game or two.

I, too, agree with this strategy, for no other reason than if we have a top 7 pick in the draft, we will be all but guaranteed a prospect who would immediately become our best (assuming someone picks one of the goalies, there is Ovechkin, Schremp, Olesz, Wolski, McGrath, and Barker).

I was hoping for top two but as long as we don't fall in that 8-15 range I'll be happy.


call that the mediocre zone.

I'm with you. The draft and the 1st pick overall is the best way to attain that franchise player we so sorely lack. The problem is its become a lottery pick and you have to roll the dice to get that top player. Ovechkin is the real deal as I saw him myself. After him though next years draft is considered very weak. Regarding Podlesak, I would have given him a couple of games. What's the difference between letting him play AHL x-games and NHL x-games? He's either medically cleared or he isn't. Playing Lenny a few more games might have answered our question on whether or not we can trade Burke at some point this year with any kind of confidence that we have his replacement in line. Boucher, Bierk and Pellletier all appear to be destined backup style tenders. I remember the Montreal Canadians taking a chance on a kid right out of college just before the playoffs back in the early 80's. A kid named Patrick Roy and I think he won the Conn Smythe that year as they won the cup and he stole the show against Bobby Hull and company. Ironically, he to was a Cornell grad. Goalies are a different breed. Some can step right in, some take years to come around. Was Lenny ready to take over as #1? Highly unlikely but I would like to have seen him play a at least another game or two.


I think you are confusing Roy and Dryden. Roy played junior in the Q and Dryden came out of Cornell. You seem to have part of each goalie's "legend" incorporated into your post.

Both were outstanding Hall of Fame goalers so I hope Leveneu lives up to their example.

am i alone when i say that I wouldn't be upset if we ended up with a lottery pick? What would tick me off is if we were stuck in the middle where we miss out on the top prospectws and our of the playoffs.
:handclap: You're not alone! I'd prefer a HIGH draft pick over what you call the mediocre zone (#8-#15 pick) and no playoffs. How else is this team going to aquire top-shelf-talent? The pockets aren't deep enough and if you trade for talent you have to give up talent...

.... Spiller will now play without minor league experience which is generally a big mistake for defensemen who usually take a year or more in the minors learning their trade but this organization is desperate to showcase some young talent so I guess all the pressure is on Spiller to perform....Some can step right in, some take years to come around. Was Lenny ready to take over as #1? Highly unlikely but I would like to have seen him play a at least another game or two.

Eye, I've only been on this board for a little while, and whenever I've read one of your posts, I usually appreciate your thoughts and knowledge of the game. Now don't get me wrong, this is not about wrong or right - I just want to understand what you are saying:

You complain on the one hand, that Spiller will be playing in Phx, without minor league experience. On the other hand, you think management confidently could trade Burke in the near future, if Lenny would've had a couple of strong performances in the pre-season??? In order to make your argument, you point at Roy, the 'winingest' goalie in NHL history? Some might argue the best goalie to ever play in the league?

:dunno: I dunno, I don't 'b-eye' your theorie. IMHO, goalies usually take longer to develop and mature than d-men and forwards.

Dancin' Gabe rules! :bow:

:handclap: You're not alone! I'd prefer a HIGH draft pick over what you call the mediocre zone (#8-#15 pick) and no playoffs. How else is this team going to aquire top-shelf-talent? The pockets aren't deep enough and if you trade for talent you have to give up talent...



Eye, I've only been on this board for a little while, and whenever I've read one of your posts, I usually appreciate your thoughts and knowledge of the game. Now don't get me wrong, this is not about wrong or right - I just want to understand what you are saying:

You complain on the one hand, that Spiller will be playing in Phx, without minor league experience. On the other hand, you think management confidently could trade Burke in the near future, if Lenny would've had a couple of strong performances in the pre-season??? In order to make your argument, you point at Roy, the 'winingest' goalie in NHL history? Some might argue the best goalie to ever play in the league?

:dunno: I dunno, I don't 'b-eye' your theorie. IMHO, goalies usually take longer to develop and mature than d-men and forwards.

Dancin' Gabe rules! :bow:

I appreciate your tact Matzel. Let me attempt to clarify. I was happy to see Spiller play every game and get real good icetime in pre-season. Having played Defense I happen to believe it's almost impossible to jump from Junior to the NHL or should I say you shouldn't jump from Junior to the NHL unless you are absolutely 100% certain the player will not falter and be sent down. If for example Spiller falters or the Yotes trade for another veteran and he is sent down it will put Spiller back further than if he had just began at the AHL level. You have to keep these kids hungry but hang a carrot for them to chase. Jeff Taffe is an excellent case in point to what happens when they start off right away at the NHL level and then are sent up and down. It sometimes takes years to overcome and to stabilize your emotions and confidence. If Spiller is able to play well and stick, all the best to him and it can only be a plus to the org. if he does. I just happen to believe he and the org. would have been well served if he started in the minors for some time. There was and is no rush. This team isn't going anywhere in the next 2-3 years. As for Lenny, my thoughts were play him in 2-3 x-games or more and see if Alaire concurrs that he is the man to replace Burke. Bierk and Boucher can fill in this year and then next year or later this year you fit him in and gradually bring him in as #1. Some goalies and Lenny may be one of them can step in and not miss a beat. He could be just like Ken Dryden when he left Cornell to carry the Canadiens for so many years and to so many cups. I just think this team as is, is not going anywhere and all the prospects should have been used and used alot in x-games. One or more may have suprised. I would have played Sjostrom, McLeod and others as much as possible just to give them experience, confidence and mgt. the opp. to see them in action. I would have liked to have seen them matched up with the best players in the lineup to see what they could do and not with each other. I think McLeod played with Taffe. How is that going to give you a fair or accurate read? As it stands now the way the CBA works, most of these guys will end up helping other teams as their contracts expire and they feel that Yotes mgt. gave up on them or never gave them the chance.

I think you are confusing Roy and Dryden. Roy played junior in the Q and Dryden came out of Cornell. You seem to have part of each goalie's "legend" incorporated into your post.

Both were outstanding Hall of Fame goalers so I hope Leveneu lives up to their example.

My bad, thanks Viking. Of course I meant Ken Dryden. Did the Canadiens have great goaltenders or what?

I might add that IMO a young 2 way Defense prospect or a 2nd round pick in the 2005 draft for Burke is fair return in todays NHL climate just to get rid of his salary and to get some return on this aging vet. I don't see us getting a 1st rounder or a proven young player for him in return. My hope is not to see another Sillinger - Teppo exchange.

I might add that IMO a young 2 way Defense prospect or a 2nd round pick in the 2005 draft for Burke is fair return in todays NHL climate just to get rid of his salary and to get some return on this aging vet. I don't see us getting a 1st rounder or a proven young player for him in return. My hope is not to see another Sillinger - Teppo exchange.

Yes. And the fact the Burke has earned a final shot at the cup. There really isn't anything more he can do for the Coyotes expect to play for pride and professionalism.

I appreciate your tact Matzel. Let me attempt to clarify. I was happy to see Spiller play every game and get real good icetime in pre-season. Having played Defense I happen to believe it's almost impossible to jump from Junior to the NHL or should I say you shouldn't jump from Junior to the NHL unless you are absolutely 100% certain the player will not falter and be sent down. If for example Spiller falters or the Yotes trade for another veteran and he is sent down it will put Spiller back further than if he had just began at the AHL level. You have to keep these kids hungry but hang a carrot for them to chase. Jeff Taffe is an excellent case in point to what happens when they start off right away at the NHL level and then are sent up and down. It sometimes takes years to overcome and to stabilize your emotions and confidence. If Spiller is able to play well and stick, all the best to him and it can only be a plus to the org. if he does. I just happen to believe he and the org. would have been well served if he started in the minors for some time. There was and is no rush. This team isn't going anywhere in the next 2-3 years. As for Lenny, my thoughts were play him in 2-3 x-games or more and see if Alaire concurrs that he is the man to replace Burke. Bierk and Boucher can fill in this year and then next year or later this year you fit him in and gradually bring him in as #1. Some goalies and Lenny may be one of them can step in and not miss a beat. He could be just like Ken Dryden when he left Cornell to carry the Canadiens for so many years and to so many cups. I just think this team as is, is not going anywhere and all the prospects should have been used and used alot in x-games. One or more may have suprised. I would have played Sjostrom, McLeod and others as much as possible just to give them experience, confidence and mgt. the opp. to see them in action. I would have liked to have seen them matched up with the best players in the lineup to see what they could do and not with each other. I think McLeod played with Taffe. How is that going to give you a fair or accurate read? As it stands now the way the CBA works, most of these guys will end up helping other teams as their contracts expire and they feel that Yotes mgt. gave up on them or never gave them the chance.


I have to agree that Spiller and the Coyotes would be best served by playing part of the year in Springfield. Ossi didn't spend any time in the minors but he had played against men in the Finnish Elite League.

I would play the other 6 d-men ahead of Spiller but give him a few games before sending him down. Hopefully Helmer is healthy before any injury problems. I might even consider recalling Wilson or Tselios before Spiller. just because I would prefer him to play huge minutes rather than warm the bench and play a few shifts.

Regarding Podlesak, I would have given him a couple of games. What's the difference between letting him play AHL x-games and NHL x-games? He's either medically cleared or he isn't.

I would agree with you... if it wasnt a concussion he was coming back from.. actually a series of them. These aren't simple medical conditions that a doctor can tell you he's 100% cured. If you remember, Kolanos had considerable difficulties in his return with returning symptoms and we still havent seen him playing near the level he was before. Podlesak's concussion was even more serious to the point it was thought his career may be over.. and he's had less than 40 games in the last two years. I just dont think you can legitimately criticise management for being careful here.

Playing Lenny a few more games might have answered our question on whether or not we can trade Burke at some point this year with any kind of confidence that we have his replacement in line. Boucher, Bierk and Pellletier all appear to be destined backup style tenders. I remember the Montreal Canadians taking a chance on a kid right out of college just before the playoffs back in the early 80's. A kid named Patrick Roy and I think he won the Conn Smythe that year as they won the cup and he stole the show against Bobby Hull and company. Ironically, he to was a Cornell grad. Goalies are a different breed. Some can step right in, some take years to come around. Was Lenny ready to take over as #1? Highly unlikely but I would like to have seen him play a at least another game or two.

Management did say they would have played Leneveu more but he suffered an injury right after his very first game and it made no sense to risk stunting his season or development to rush him back.. especially with other goalies to evaluate. "some can step in, some take years" should really be re-phrased as "an elite few can step in, the vast majority take years". Guys like Roy are up there with the Marios when it comes to stepping in that fast. Leneveu's good but he's not Lehtonen or Fleury. Its going to be at the very least a year or two and what's wrong with evaluating his play over that year instead of forcing him to prove himself half-fit and in his first encounter with professional hockey players?

Sorry eye.. I think you have a point when it comes to Taffe and Knyazev.. the jury is out on Spiller now but I dont think you would have handled Podlesak and Leneveu any better than the Coyotes did.


I would have played Sjostrom, McLeod and others as much as possible just to give them experience, confidence and mgt. the opp. to see them in action. I would have liked to have seen them matched up with the best players in the lineup to see what they could do and not with each other. I think McLeod played with Taffe. How is that going to give you a fair or accurate read? As it stands now the way the CBA works, most of these guys will end up helping other teams as their contracts expire and they feel that Yotes mgt. gave up on them or never gave them the chance.

Wait a sec. McLeod did not play with Taffe. McLeod played with Mike Johnson and Brian Savage. Check the LA game thread if you want. Similarly Taffe got his own line of NHLers to play with. The Yotes mgt. did exactly what you're advocating. I think you make some very valid points but dont let it run away.

Never gave them a chance? If you ask me, playing for the Falcons is far from "giving up on them". If they perform there, they will get their chance... that's the way it works at every professional team. Im not going to feel sorry for them because the poor things have to play at AHL level.. they better be ready to prove themselves wherever they play - that's the reality of pro sports. Even if they were demoted to the ECHL I'd expect that. Look at Zac Bierk.. stuck in the ECHL this time last year.. 12 months later half the NHL had him earmarked, hoping to grab him from the waiver draft.

I would agree with you... if it wasnt a concussion he was coming back from.. actually a series of them. These aren't simple medical conditions that a doctor can tell you he's 100% cured. If you remember, Kolanos had considerable difficulties in his return with returning symptoms and we still havent seen him playing near the level he was before. Podlesak's concussion was even more serious to the point it was thought his career may be over.. and he's had less than 40 games in the last two years. I just dont think you can legitimately criticise management for being careful here.



Management did say they would have played Leneveu more but he suffered an injury right after his very first game and it made no sense to risk stunting his season or development to rush him back.. especially with other goalies to evaluate. "some can step in, some take years" should really be re-phrased as "an elite few can step in, the vast majority take years". Guys like Roy are up there with the Marios when it comes to stepping in that fast. Leneveu's good but he's not Lehtonen or Fleury. Its going to be at the very least a year or two and what's wrong with evaluating his play over that year instead of forcing him to prove himself half-fit and in his first encounter with professional hockey players?

Sorry eye.. I think you have a point when it comes to Taffe and Knyazev.. the jury is out on Spiller now but I dont think you would have handled Podlesak and Leneveu any better than the Coyotes did.



Wait a sec. McLeod did not play with Taffe. McLeod played with Mike Johnson and Brian Savage. Check the LA game thread if you want. Similarly Taffe got his own line of NHLers to play with. The Yotes mgt. did exactly what you're advocating. I think you make some very valid points but dont let it run away.

Never gave them a chance? If you ask me, playing for the Falcons is far from "giving up on them". If they perform there, they will get their chance... that's the way it works at every professional team. Im not going to feel sorry for them because the poor things have to play at AHL level.. they better be ready to prove themselves wherever they play - that's the reality of pro sports. Even if they were demoted to the ECHL I'd expect that. Look at Zac Bierk.. stuck in the ECHL this time last year.. 12 months later half the NHL had him earmarked, hoping to grab him from the waiver draft.

At the risk of sounding repetitive I'll keep this one brief;

No difference playing ahl or nhl xgames healthwise and no difference between Kolanos or Podlesak IMO. This was not about concern of Polesak's health or he would not be playing xgames in the ahl.

Accoring to NHL shift tracker which is nicely colour coded Taffe and McLeod played their 10 minutes of icetime together. Unfortunately, they don't appear to archive xgame boxscores so you will have to take my word on it that I checked it very closely. stevex, do you really think McLeod who is supposed to be one of our top 3 prospects was given enough xgame experience and exposure?

Not sure about your ahl point of view. I'm strictly talking about evaluating and developing their top prospects and IMO what they have done the last few years isn't working and I ask the question why? I would never slight the AHL playing experience as I believe all prospects should play at least 1 year there. I think there is a proven and successful method to bringing prospects along into the NHL and Montreal were the masters of it for years from the 50's to the 80's. Now it's all about contracts, the CBA, satisfying the media, agents etc. Don't get me started!!!!! lol

stevex, do you really think McLeod who is supposed to be one of our top 3 prospects was given enough xgame experience and exposure?




I'm assuming you're refering to the preseason, and will say only that I believe McLeod was dealing with his own nagging injuries in the preseason, was he not?

Let me attempt to clarify...

Thanks, eye. I can see your point.

Dancin' Gabe rules! :bow:

I'm assuming you're refering to the preseason, and will say only that I believe McLeod was dealing with his own nagging injuries in the preseason, was he not?

Yes, I was referring to pre-season. He played our first home xgame and we had 2 more after that. He could have and should have been allowed to gain experience in both of them if we really believe he and a few others are our future.

Yes, I was referring to pre-season. He played our first home xgame and we had 2 more after that. He could have and should have been allowed to gain experience in both of them if we really believe he and a few others are our future.

I agree, he should've been given a shot, but if he wasn't a hundred %, there was no point in throwing him out there to possibly reaggravate an injury (I don't remember what the injury was off the top of my head, actually, but anywho) I think we're in agreement, however, in the main.