NFL week 2 official thread

Evilo
09-18-2005, 12:23 PM
Palmer and the Bengals off to a great start.
Parker tearing it up with the Steelers as well.

Vic Rattlehead*
09-18-2005, 12:28 PM
Good game in Indianapolis so far, still 0-0.

Manning threw an interception before. ;)

DJ Spinoza
09-18-2005, 12:29 PM
Good game in Indianapolis so far, still 0-0.

Manning threw an interception before. ;)

I need a good solid game from your Jags D... I'm following the boxscore.

Dakota Sioux
09-18-2005, 12:29 PM
My Vikes SUCK.

acr*
09-18-2005, 12:31 PM
Defensive battle so far between the Pats and Cats

Touchdown Daniel Graham after Troy Brown set them up with a 71-yard dump off pass. Carolina's secondary is literally disappearing. 7-0 Pats, Brady records his 100th Career TD Pass.

Dakota Sioux
09-18-2005, 12:32 PM
Philly up 14-0 with Owens on the end of a 68 yard TD reception.

Evilo
09-18-2005, 12:34 PM
Looks like Tennessee is better than most people make them out to be. They're up 7-0 on the Ravens.
If the Titans win, there will be a lot of losers in the death match.

Evilo
09-18-2005, 12:36 PM
Big Ben doing a wonderful job as well.
6/8 100 yards, 1TD so far.

DJ Spinoza
09-18-2005, 12:38 PM
Roethlisberger is owning the Titans secondary on this drive. He's hit Wilson once and Ward twice with beautiful passes.

I hope Culpepper and the Vikings get their stuff together. I sure picked a great year to take Culpepper in my fantasy league. :shakehead

Dakota Sioux
09-18-2005, 12:39 PM
Roethlisberger is owning the Titans secondary on this drive. He's hit Wilson once and Ward twice with beautiful passes.

I hope Culpepper and the Vikings get their stuff together. I sure picked a great year to take Culpepper in my fantasy league. :shakehead
I'm a huge Viking fan but he looks lost and scared without Moss.

Evilo
09-18-2005, 12:42 PM
Roethlisberger is owning the Titans secondary on this drive. He's hit Wilson once and Ward twice with beautiful passes.
The Texans, which is more impressive.
8/11, 135 yards, 2TD now. And Willie has 49 yards in 9 carries.

acr*
09-18-2005, 12:47 PM
Tied at 7 after the refs handed Davis a TD despite the fact that he didn't get in, and fumbled on the reach. Belichick didn't challenge it and let the play stand, despite the fact that we should've got the ball back.

Bish please
09-18-2005, 12:54 PM
Tied at 7 after the refs handed Davis a TD despite the fact that he didn't get in, and fumbled on the reach. Belichick didn't challenge it and let the play stand, despite the fact that we should've got the ball back.

I just saw the replay, that was almost as bad as Vinny Testaverde's QB sneak "touchdown" a few years ago against the Seahawks.


In the Bucs-Bills game everything is as expected, 0-0 in the second quarter with a bunch of 3 and outs.

Bish please
09-18-2005, 01:00 PM
JP Losman steps outside the back of the endzone, 2-0 Bucs.

Run up the middle for Mike Alstott. 9-0 Tampa Bay. with 2:36 left in the 2nd quarter.

Anthony*
09-18-2005, 01:04 PM
haha

mark simoneau had to kick an extra point after akers got hurt

i cant wait to see what they do on the kickoff

Vic Rattlehead*
09-18-2005, 01:04 PM
Horrbile offensive try there by the Jags.

Vic Rattlehead*
09-18-2005, 01:05 PM
JP Losman steps outside the back of the endzone, 2-0 Bucs.

1-7 for 4 yards for Losman today. Ouch.

Anthony*
09-18-2005, 01:05 PM
LOL

they had some backup te do the kickoff

acr*
09-18-2005, 01:10 PM
Dammit. Pats had 2nd and inches, Klecko held on the run, so it turned into 2nd and 10 and inches, then Brady forced a pick on the next pass.

Vic Rattlehead*
09-18-2005, 01:12 PM
Jags are not using Matt Jones. They need to use him, he played very well against the Seahawks.

Vic Rattlehead*
09-18-2005, 01:24 PM
0-0 Jags and Colts after one half.

acr*
09-18-2005, 01:40 PM
We're just handing this one away. No way in hell should we be losing at all right now, much less by ten points.

Vic Rattlehead*
09-18-2005, 01:44 PM
Jones had a great run for first down, but it was brought all the way back because of a holding penelty. :madfire:

ATG
09-18-2005, 01:46 PM
Stinkin Ravens are costing me pro line

1st half numbers: 13 plays for 45 yards :shakehead

PredsFan77*
09-18-2005, 01:50 PM
man I hate the panthers.


and damn my titans for beating the ravens right now...I changed from McNair to Wright in my FF league hoping the Titans D would suck.

MontrealCruiser_83*
09-18-2005, 01:53 PM
5 minutes into the 3rd quarter, and the Ravens just picked up their first first down.

acr*
09-18-2005, 01:59 PM
UUUUUUUGGGGGH

Had them at 3rd and 20ish and give up 18 on the play to put them in FG range. This game is crap, they're blowing it.

ATG
09-18-2005, 02:02 PM
Cadillac "thrills"Williams is the real deal

MontrealCruiser_83*
09-18-2005, 02:04 PM
Cadillac "thrills"Williams is the real deal
I still don't understand how you can draft his backup ahead of him.

Wow, Brown ran his 40 .02 or whatever seconds faster than Williams... so I guess that means more than being one of the most feared backs in the past 5 years in college ball.

Bish please
09-18-2005, 02:06 PM
Touchdown for Carnell Williams, 16-3 Bucs with 5:09 left in the third.

Vic Rattlehead*
09-18-2005, 02:12 PM
Culpepper is 9/19, 104 yards, with 3 interceptions. :biglaugh:

FlyersGuy69
09-18-2005, 02:14 PM
Cadillac "thrills"Williams is the real deal
hellz yes, Tampa's got a good one there. real nice young WR/RB tandom for the future.

I know it's early and they have alot of talent but the Vikings look like major frauds.

acr*
09-18-2005, 02:16 PM
20-17!

We're back in it with ten points in 10 seconds after a FG and a Delhomme gift INT to Vrabel!

PredsFan77*
09-18-2005, 02:26 PM
****

golfmade
09-18-2005, 02:27 PM
Rutger a great hit on Brady to get the ball loose. Go Panthers!! :yo:

Dakota Sioux
09-18-2005, 02:28 PM
Culpepper is 9/19, 104 yards, with 3 interceptions. :biglaugh:Make that 4 interceptions.7 for the year.

Vic Rattlehead*
09-18-2005, 02:28 PM
Culpepper throws another interception....

PredsFan77*
09-18-2005, 02:32 PM
2nd and Goal, ball on NE 1
Last Play: 2-1-(15:00) J.Delhomme pass incomplete to J.Peppers. Penalty on CAR-J.Peppers, Offensive Pass Interference, offsetting, enforced at NE 1 - No Play. Penalty on NE-E.Wilson, Defensive Pass Interference, offsetting.

ebbhead
09-18-2005, 02:33 PM
This just in: Vikings are terrible

golfmade
09-18-2005, 02:33 PM
:huh:

Why'd the Panthers try the same throw again right after the first try didn't work?

Well anyways, Davis punches it in for the TD :yo:

Bish please
09-18-2005, 02:33 PM
JP Losman is pulled by the Bills after going 5 - 17 for 39 passing yards. Kelly Holcomb is now playing.

EDIT: Holcomb goes 3 and out.

EDIT EDIT: Losman is back in the game. :dunno:

ebbhead
09-18-2005, 02:34 PM
Millions of Fantasy pools wait all day for a colts score. Maybe 1 has Carthon

ATG
09-18-2005, 02:41 PM
Culpepper :shakehead

ATG
09-18-2005, 02:43 PM
Well it's official I lost pro line thanks to the **** Ravens.....

Dakota Sioux
09-18-2005, 02:45 PM
5 picks for Culpepper,yet Tice keeps throwin the bum out there.

Vic Rattlehead*
09-18-2005, 02:47 PM
I feel bad for the people who have Culpepper on their fantasy team this week.

Safir*
09-18-2005, 02:52 PM
**** the prediction game.

Titans??? ***
Bears??? ***
Panthers?*** ...err...I mean hell yeah. Rock on guys.

Go Panthers!!! It's time for a pay back.

acr*
09-18-2005, 02:52 PM
Brady ****ing sucks today.

Bish please
09-18-2005, 02:52 PM
5 picks for Culpepper,yet Tice keeps throwin the bum out there.

Soon Viking fans won't have to worry about Tice anymore.

Vic Rattlehead*
09-18-2005, 03:02 PM
Colts win 10-3, with Jags having a last chance at the end of the game.

Even with the loss, great game by Jacksonville.

EDIT---Last play was questionable, as it looked like pass interference

Bish please
09-18-2005, 03:02 PM
Colts beat the Jags 10-3 on a missed pass interference call.

ATG
09-18-2005, 03:05 PM
Colts beat the Jags 10-3 on a missed pass interference call.

Ya Jimmy smith got hacked. Props to Byron Leftwich for his toughness

Unholy Diver
09-18-2005, 03:08 PM
Colts beat the Jags 10-3 on a missed pass interference call.

their feet got tangled, it was incidental contact

Mathletic
09-18-2005, 03:09 PM
total domination today for the Bucs over Buffalo

Dakota Sioux
09-18-2005, 03:11 PM
Soon Viking fans won't have to worry about Tice anymore.We can only hope so.

Unholy Diver
09-18-2005, 03:12 PM
total domination today for the Bucs over Buffalo
they manhandled the best defense in the league, how did the best CB in the universe fare for the Bills?

Mathletic
09-18-2005, 03:13 PM
they manhandled the best defense in the league, how did the best CB in the universe fare for the Bills?

only time we heard his name was when he returned a punt for 2 or 3 yards

golfmade
09-18-2005, 03:13 PM
Fumble! Panthers get it :yo: :yo:

acr*
09-18-2005, 03:30 PM
That was the worst played game of football I've ever seen. I'm amazed the Panthers didn't win by 30.

MisterUnspoken
09-18-2005, 03:40 PM
BENGALS!!!! :bow:

Mathletic
09-18-2005, 03:47 PM
they manhandled the best defense in the league, how did the best CB in the universe fare for the Bills?

by the way, Bucs have yet to allow an offensive TD so Bucs D is the best in the league

Packers next week

Ar-too
09-18-2005, 03:49 PM
BENGALS!!!! :bow:

The first half was almost perfect. If not for the INT and all the penalties... :handclap: :clap:

WHO DEY!!!

ObeySteve
09-18-2005, 05:05 PM
Any power rankings are gotta be pretty screwed up after this week. Steelers #1, anyone?

Chaos
09-18-2005, 06:16 PM
Damn stupid Cardinals. Get down to the 5, have a sac, then a false start and the 10 second run-off and they lose.

Vic Rattlehead*
09-18-2005, 06:18 PM
San Diego Super Chargers are....

0-2.

MLH
09-18-2005, 06:30 PM
they manhandled the best defense in the league, how did the best CB in the universe fare for the Bills?

Ask Joey Galloway.

It's beyond me why they didn't match up Clements with Clayton. Makes no sense. Bills were terrible in every aspect of the game. Gotta bounce back against the Falcons.

Chileiceman
09-18-2005, 07:29 PM
Losman had a grand total of 68 yards before the final drive

Hockeyfan02
09-18-2005, 07:33 PM
I expected TO to absolutely shred the Niners today and the Eagles to cruise. I was just hoping they would find a way to keep it close. Eagles are still the best team in the NFC to me, despite what happened on Monday night.

No Quarter
09-18-2005, 08:31 PM
Stinkin Ravens are costing me pro line

1st half numbers: 13 plays for 45 yards :shakehead


Those stinkin Ravens knocked me out of my survivor poll the 2nd week of the season.

clefty
09-18-2005, 08:51 PM
how did the best CB in the universe fare for the Bills?

http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/091805_williams01.jpg

benji
09-18-2005, 08:52 PM
Those stinkin Ravens knocked me out of my survivor poll the 2nd week of the season.
At least you didn't pick the freakin' Rams in the first week.

ATG
09-18-2005, 08:59 PM
http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/091805_williams01.jpg

Cadillac :clap:

MLH
09-18-2005, 09:20 PM
Clements dropped Cadillac for a loss on that play.

Gibsons Finest
09-18-2005, 11:46 PM
Colts beat the Jags 10-3 on a missed pass interference call.

I dunno about that, it kinda looked like their feet got tangled up, and it was incidental contact. Either way, there was some pretty bad reffing that game. Good job by the Colts to pull 'er out, though.

golfmade
09-19-2005, 12:55 AM
Chiefs :yo: :yo:

Great night, I ****ing hate the ****ing Raiders, even more so now that they have Sapp (guy is WAY too out of shape for how much he gets paid) and Moss.

RoyIsALegend*
09-19-2005, 01:20 AM
I'm happy with my Titans today.

It won't be too often we get to cheer for some positive things this year, so I'll enjoy this victory until we go into St. Louis next week.

monster_bertuzzi
09-19-2005, 05:45 AM
Seahawks rough up Mike Vick and the Falcons. :yo:

Detox
09-19-2005, 12:12 PM
Seahawks rough up Mike Vick and the Falcons. :yo:
They had him in the first half but you play the if game in the second- if Mike had not got injured on that 30+ yard run, the Falcons had all the momentum(sp?) after the Engram fumble, which, imo, if Vick was fully mobile (he had that lane on third down, very likely would have gotten the first), then atleast a FG wouldve been plausible.

Bottom line: the Seahawks D bailed out their anemic offense in the second half :clap:

side: Walter Jones absolutely owned Patrick Kerney, even with the Fox lovefest on the guy, its easy to see how great of an OT he is.

Ar-too
09-19-2005, 12:24 PM
At this point in his development:

Mike Vick = overrated

He might become a good QB, but's not one right now. Great athelete who can kill you with his feet, but I wonder if the Falcons might be better off with him at WR or something like that...

Hawkalyzer
09-19-2005, 01:01 PM
BENGALS!!!! :bow:

Bengals@Bears is gonna look great next week.

Mathletic
09-19-2005, 02:37 PM
Palmer fired by the Texans

Impossibles
09-19-2005, 02:42 PM
At this point in his development:

Mike Vick = overrated

He might become a good QB, but's not one right now. Great athelete who can kill you with his feet, but I wonder if the Falcons might be better off with him at WR or something like that...

He wins games. That might not make fantasy coaches happy, but it makes his coach happy. His record when starting is just phenominal, and when he broke his leg, Atlanta sucked.

Impossibles
09-19-2005, 02:45 PM
Any other Bucs fans not liking how much Gruden is using Cadillac? He shouldn't getting as many carries as he is, there is no way he lasts the season with the hits that he's taking.

I love the kid though, I didn't like the pick when it happened, but now I'm definately really happy. He looks like Marshal Faulk out there the way he makes his cuts. I love how he likes to cut back to the inside instead of trying to get around the corner.

PACaptain
09-19-2005, 02:53 PM
Palmer fired by the Texans

I watched that game and the Texans offense was ugly, but you think they would have seen a problem in the offseason if it was that big. Two weeks of regular season action is an awfully short time to determine that its the coordinators fault. It seems like the same story in Houston, David Carr is running for his life behind a suspect offensive line.

PACaptain
09-19-2005, 02:56 PM
Any other Bucs fans not liking how much Gruden is using Cadillac? He shouldn't getting as many carries as he is, there is no way he lasts the season with the hits that he's taking.

I love the kid though, I didn't like the pick when it happened, but now I'm definately really happy. He looks like Marshal Faulk out there the way he makes his cuts. I love how he likes to cut back to the inside instead of trying to get around the corner.

I said on draft day that Carnell "Cadilliac" Williams was the best running back to come out of the class and while its premature his transition looks good. I was also happy to see you compare him to Marshall Faulk because he was (still sort of is but in a different way since he is a backup) my favorite running back in the NFL. I haven't gotten to watch any Bucs games but is he catching the ball too?

I think Pittman and Alstott will get carries if Gruden thinks Cadilliac is wearing down.

Mathletic
09-19-2005, 02:56 PM
Any other Bucs fans not liking how much Gruden is using Cadillac? He shouldn't getting as many carries as he is, there is no way he lasts the season with the hits that he's taking.

I love the kid though, I didn't like the pick when it happened, but now I'm definately really happy. He looks like Marshal Faulk out there the way he makes his cuts. I love how he likes to cut back to the inside instead of trying to get around the corner.

Cadillac will have to get used to get hit no matter how many carries he gets, I don't think he got too many carries but he still played against 2 tough defenses so that could explain his sore ankle and a couple of injuries. Next week is Green Bay and the week after is Detroit, so Cadillac shouldn't get roughed up too much

Mathletic
09-19-2005, 02:58 PM
I said on draft day that Carnell "Cadilliac" Williams was the best running back to come out of the class and while its premature his transition looks good. I was also happy to see you compare him to Marshall Faulk because he was (still sort of is but in a different way since he is a backup) my favorite running back in the NFL. I haven't gotten to watch any Bucs games but is he catching the ball too?

I think Pittman and Alstott will get carries if Gruden thinks Cadilliac is wearing down.

so far they haven't thrown much to him, I think Gruden leaves him concentrate on running the ball and whenever they want to throw to a RB the Bucs have Pittman who's one of the best in the league at catching the ball

PACaptain
09-19-2005, 03:23 PM
so far they haven't thrown much to him, I think Gruden leaves him concentrate on running the ball and whenever they want to throw to a RB the Bucs have Pittman who's one of the best in the league at catching the ball

That was the knock on him before the draft, didn't catch the ball well but I think they can get him by that if the Bucs use Pittman. Maybe after some time in the offense, they can use him more on passing routes.

Tampa's offense is all of a sudden dangerous with Cadilliac, a rejuvenated Brian Griese, and young star Michael Clayton. Looks like Chuckie did have a plan after all when he cut loose most of their team a couple years ago.

Impossibles
09-19-2005, 04:24 PM
I said on draft day that Carnell "Cadilliac" Williams was the best running back to come out of the class and while its premature his transition looks good. I was also happy to see you compare him to Marshall Faulk because he was (still sort of is but in a different way since he is a backup) my favorite running back in the NFL. I haven't gotten to watch any Bucs games but is he catching the ball too?

I think Pittman and Alstott will get carries if Gruden thinks Cadilliac is wearing down.

He hasn't caught a single pass. He looks like he has the ability too, I think they just want to have him focused on running though.

He's not as quick as Faulk, but the way he moves his legs he reminds me of him.

I think if he wasn't splitting the carries on his college team, he would have probably been a lot more hyped.

Impossibles
09-19-2005, 04:25 PM
That was the knock on him before the draft, didn't catch the ball well but I think they can get him by that if the Bucs use Pittman. Maybe after some time in the offense, they can use him more on passing routes.

Tampa's offense is all of a sudden dangerous with Cadilliac, a rejuvenated Brian Griese, and young star Michael Clayton. Looks like Chuckie did have a plan after all when he cut loose most of their team a couple years ago.

Clayton looked awesome yesterday. He looks like a vet out there, I love how he doesn't celebrate his catches, he just tosses the ref the ball and goes to the huddle.

monster_bertuzzi
09-19-2005, 05:04 PM
side: Walter Jones absolutely owned Patrick Kerney, even with the Fox lovefest on the guy, its easy to see how great of an OT he is.

Yeah, and with Jon Ogden sucking lately its safe to say (IMO) that Jones has past him as the best OT in the game.

ebbhead
09-19-2005, 05:11 PM
Bengals@Bears is gonna look great next week.

Can someone research & find if this phrase has ever been uttered in history before

PACaptain
09-19-2005, 05:18 PM
Can someone research & find if this phrase has ever been uttered in history before

Probably not since the early 1980's in the days of Ken Anderson and Refrigerator Perry.

MontrealCruiser_83*
09-19-2005, 05:18 PM
He hasn't caught a single pass. He looks like he has the ability too, I think they just want to have him focused on running though.

He's not as quick as Faulk, but the way he moves his legs he reminds me of him.

I think if he wasn't splitting the carries on his college team, he would have probably been a lot more hyped.
Williams was very hyped. People just thought he was injury prone. He's been on the map since his freshman season, though.

Mathletic
09-19-2005, 05:27 PM
Williams was very hyped. People just thought he was injury prone. He's been on the map since his freshman season, though.

and by the way, Cadillac is better as game goes by so that explains why he'll get few more carries than he'd normally get as a rookie

Mathletic
09-19-2005, 05:42 PM
Breaking News !

great news, Michelle Tafoya is pregnant

and Sam Ryan takes over for Monday Night Football

clefty
09-19-2005, 05:48 PM
Any other Bucs fans not liking how much Gruden is using Cadillac? He shouldn't getting as many carries as he is, there is no way he lasts the season with the hits that he's taking.

I think its great. I was just going to say that he gets better as the game goes by until FSU Seminoles did, and Jon Gruden has been talking about his durability since they day we drafted him. Some of his best runs have come in the fourth quarter. 25 carries per game is reasonable, IMO.

And really, if not using him as much then we're holstering one of out biggest weapons. Its been a while since the Bucs had a damaging running game.,

Mathletic
09-19-2005, 06:03 PM
I think its great. I was just going to say that he gets better as the game goes by until FSU Seminoles did, and Jon Gruden has been talking about his durability since they day we drafted him. Some of his best runs have come in the fourth quarter. 25 carries per game is reasonable, IMO.

And really, if not using him as much then we're holstering one of out biggest weapons. Its been a while since the Bucs had a damaging running game.,

yeah, and he gets the job done when he has to ... the TD run on 3rd down was huge, against the Vikes his 75 yard run ceiled the deal and again yesterday he had a few great runs on 3rd downs

JCD
09-20-2005, 08:55 AM
After a couple busy weeks of trips...

Vikes look utterly pathetic. They were lighting things up in pre-season using a watered downe vanilla playbook. What we didn't know was that watered-down vanilla scheme was all Loney could come up with.

Culpepper looks terrible. No excuse for the level of his play. The team around him is doing him no favors either, but he is still sucking eggs. Just to cut-off the debate, it has little to nothing to do with Moss being gone. Moss was gone last year and he didn't look this bad. Poor pass blocking and even worse playcalling (the loss of Linehan) are bigger causes. Culpepper looked downright pissed the second half of last week, he was just firing the ball off 2 seconds after it was hiked. To me, that makes me think he has absolutely no confidence in his line's ability to block. He looks rattled and frustrated.

The RBs look lost. Poor line blocking hurts, but even worse coaching decisions make it terrible. Tice keeps on trying to ride Bennett even when Bennett is stinking up the joint. Two fumbles on consecutive carries is inexcusable. Especially when the second one was from trying a spin move while in traffic. Where the heck are you going to spin too?

The line is miserable. Withrow needs to go as fast as possible. He used to be known as a smart player, but limited athletically. His line calling has been terrible as nobody has any clue that a blitz is coming. He is about as effective at stopping the interior rush as stringing Police tape between the guards. At least the tape might confuse players and give Culpepper a second or two to react before the DTs are all over him. Rosenthal is a limited player, but we all know that. With that in mind, why do Tice and Loney keep on calling plays that leave him 1-on-1 with the other team's best rusher?

Receivers are dropping the balls and can't get any seperation. That is only half the problem. If you can't get seperation, at least try to stretch the field to open things up. Vikes tried MAYBE TWO deep throws the entire first half of last weeks debacle. Didn't they draft Williamson for his deep speed? Maybe they should, I don't know, try sending him deep? Taylor and Robinson are doing Culpepper no favors with their greased mitts.

Defensively, I blame coaching. Erasmus James has been deactivated. Great call Tice, deactivate your first round pick. When Cowart got hurt, instead of moving Henderson back in the middle (his natural position), he started Rod Davis at MLB. Rod Davis is a second year depth player who is lucky to be on a roster, not starting material. Bengals went right after him, calling guns up the gut strait at him. More so, they went to a no-huddle offense. As MLB, Rod Davis is responsible for calling the defensive plays. With the no-huddle, he had to do it on the line. It looked like a Three Stoges routine.

In the secondary, teams are gettign the match-ups they want at will. Want Chad Johnson 1-on-1 with Brian Williams? Just ask. Want Joey Galloway 1-on-1 with Ralph Brown? No problem. It is pathetic.

Chance isn't doing the Vikes any favors either. Wiggins had two TDs called back against the Bucs, one of them was a BS push-off call. That would have been the game. Vikes have turned the ball over 12 times in 24 possessions. Most of them fall squarely on Culpepper and Bennett. However, it is worth noting that 3 of Culpepper's INTs have come off tipped balls. That is just bad luck. But when it rains, it pours.

Now, the Vikes are a team loaded with talent. Teams are not throttling the Vikes because they don't have the players. Teams are destroying the Vikes primarily because of one thing: coaching. The team is woefully undisciplined. Blown assignments are par for the course. Turnovers have become routine. Most of all, I have seen High School coaches call better plays and be more innovated offensively. Loney is, without a doubt, the worst offensive coordinator in the game today. If not the worst in the last decade. With all the talent the Vikes have on offense, they have 1 TD in two games. Without Moss last year and with LESS TALENT than they have now, they were still scoring at a top-12 clip. Cottrell's in-game adjustments have always been pathetic, but now his pre-game preparation sucks as well. The ringleader for this circus? Tice. While Tice may be a likable guy, he is a freaking meathead. We all knew Tillman stunk as a special team's coach, but now we have the trifecta of suck-i-tude with the worst offensive coordinator, the worst special teams coach and arguably the worst head coach in the league. At least Cottrell was able to crawl up from rock-bottom to be a bottom-10 defensive coordinator.

I would have some hope of optimism based on the sheer talent on the roster, but not with this coaching staff. This is just the last parting gift from Red McCombs. Coached and Coordinators are hired in Feb-March. Red was too cheap to do anything, so the Vikes did nothing (literally) in that department. By the time Zygi took over, it was too late to realistically change coaches. Training camps was only a few weeks away and everybody else had already snatched up all the viable options. Vikes will be lucky to hit .500 with this coaching attrocity running the show.

If there is any silver lining to this fiasco, it is that Tice (and his own menagerie of crap) will be fired after this year, we should get yet another decent pick to add to the mix next season, we have a glut of cap room yet again with no notable FAs (Chavous is the only guy worth keeping) but most importantly, Vikings will be breaking ground on a spiffy new stadium in the Suburbs to repalce the antiquated Metrodome. A dedicated owner with a spiffy new stadium, a talented roster of players (and Birk back) and a hefty amount of cap space to play with makes for a very attractive destination for a coach.

Give this team a quality coach and they are a Super Bowl contender. Right now, they are a punchline.

/rant

Ar-too
09-20-2005, 09:39 AM
He wins games. That might not make fantasy coaches happy, but it makes his coach happy. His record when starting is just phenominal, and when he broke his leg, Atlanta sucked.

That's great and all, but Super Bowl contenders (and that's the point, isn't it? To win the Super Bowl?) who have a bona fide defense will be able to game plan him to death. The way Mike Vick currently plays will not get his team to the Super Bowl.

Takeo
09-20-2005, 09:51 AM
they manhandled the best defense in the league, how did the best CB in the universe fare for the Bills?

The Bills don't have the best defense in the league. They just beat up on weak offenses.

And Bucs fans are ****** bags, BTW.

PACaptain
09-20-2005, 11:30 AM
The RBs look lost. Poor line blocking hurts, but even worse coaching decisions make it terrible. Tice keeps on trying to ride Bennett even when Bennett is stinking up the joint. Two fumbles on consecutive carries is inexcusable. Especially when the second one was from trying a spin move while in traffic. Where the heck are you going to spin too?

Sorry to hear that things are so bleak in Viking country, sound worse than I thought. Has Mewelde Moore been getting many touches? I was very impressed at what I saw out of him last season and in the preseason. I have never been a big fan of Michael Bennett and it seems odd to me how they always seem like they are trying to replace him with draft picks and he still manages to keep the #1 RB job while playing mediocre football.

MontrealCruiser_83*
09-20-2005, 12:07 PM
/rant
It has everything to do with trading Moss for spare parts. Harris? And drafting Williamson ahead of Williams was another mistake.

Takeo
09-20-2005, 12:09 PM
And drafting Williamson ahead of Williams was another mistake.

Way too early to make that claim. The Vikings needed to add speed to their offense after losing Moss, and that's what they did.

MontrealCruiser_83*
09-20-2005, 12:13 PM
Way too early to make that claim. The Vikings needed to add speed to their offense after losing Moss, and that's what they did.
Right... draft a project who has done nothing in his career apart from run fast in a straight line over a guy who was supposed to go 2nd overall to the Raiders in 2004 (Yeah, ahead of Fitzgerald).

Takeo
09-20-2005, 12:19 PM
Right... draft a project who has done nothing in his career apart from run fast in a straight line over a guy who was supposed to go 2nd overall to the Raiders in 2004 (Yeah, ahead of Fitzgerald).

What does it matter where Williams was projected to go in 2004? In case you didn't notice, several other teams who could have used a WR also passed on him. It's not like Minnesota was picking first and he went second. But if you want to render Williamson a bust after two professional games, then so be it.

MontrealCruiser_83*
09-20-2005, 12:23 PM
What does it matter where Williams was projected to go in 2004? In case you didn't notice, several other teams who could have used a WR also passed on him. It's not like Minnesota was picking first and he went second. But if you want to render Williamson a bust after two professional games, then so be it.
It matters plenty. Williamson was nowhere in sight at that point in time. Perhaps you don't watch college football but that's your problem, not mine. I suppose you would of taken Ronnie Brown ahead of Cadillac too...

Takeo
09-20-2005, 12:28 PM
It matters plenty. Williamson was nowhere in sight at that point in time. Perhaps you don't watch college football but that's your problem, not mine.

Taking a year off from football hurt Williams' draft stock. Comparing Williamson's value in 2005 to Williams' value in 2004 and using it as a basis to criticize Minnesota's selection is absurd.

Dr Love
09-20-2005, 01:03 PM
I suppose you would of taken Ronnie Brown ahead of Cadillac too...
Yup, clearly Cadillac Williams is the better player than Ronnie Brown. It's not even close, and Brown has zero chance to overtake him.


Come on, this is piss poor reasoning you're using.

MontrealCruiser_83*
09-20-2005, 01:20 PM
Yup, clearly Cadillac Williams is the better player than Ronnie Brown. It's not even close, and Brown has zero chance to overtake him.


Come on, this is piss poor reasoning you're using.
Oh right... because drafting workout freaks has a higher success rate than drafting based on pedigree. Sure, Brown could turn out to be the better back in the long run... but when drafting a franchise back (especially in the top-5 picks), take the better player not the better potential.

Dr Love
09-20-2005, 01:27 PM
Oh right... because drafting workout freaks has a higher success rate than drafting based on pedigree. Sure, Brown could turn out to be the better back in the long run... but when drafting a franchise back (especially in the top-5 picks), take the better player not the better potential.
Way to miss the point.

After two games you're ready to anoit Williams the better back. After two games.

MontrealCruiser_83*
09-20-2005, 01:35 PM
Way to miss the point.

After two games you're ready to anoit Williams the better back. After two games.
He was the better back in college and has been impressive in his first 2 games. He's always been the better back. Ronnie Brown was a mid first rounder before the combine.

JCD
09-20-2005, 02:00 PM
Sorry to hear that things are so bleak in Viking country, sound worse than I thought. Has Mewelde Moore been getting many touches? I was very impressed at what I saw out of him last season and in the preseason. I have never been a big fan of Michael Bennett and it seems odd to me how they always seem like they are trying to replace him with draft picks and he still manages to keep the #1 RB job while playing mediocre football.

Moore got a few touches last week, but hasn't done enough to take over the job. None of the backs have looked impressive.

JCD
09-20-2005, 02:03 PM
It has everything to do with trading Moss for spare parts. Harris? And drafting Williamson ahead of Williams was another mistake.

It actually has NOTHING to do with either of those.

Not trading Moss or drafting BWM wouldn't make Tice and Loney any less of idiots. Having BMW or Moss wouldn't make Withrow a starting-caliber center.

The biggest shortcoming is not wearing a helmet. It is the inept coaching staff. Last year, they did more with less. Linehan has proven to be a bigger loss than Moss. Moss was hurt from the Saints game on last season, they didn't look this bad.

As for BWM, way to early to see who is the better player. While I wanted BWM more and also think he will be the better player, give them more than 2 career games before making any of those conclusions.

JCD
09-20-2005, 02:07 PM
It matters plenty. Williamson was nowhere in sight at that point in time. Perhaps you don't watch college football but that's your problem, not mine. I suppose you would of taken Ronnie Brown ahead of Cadillac too...

Why is Williamson nowhere in sight?

Might that have something with Tice keeping him on the sideline for all but a dozen or so plays? It might also have something to do with him having all of 4 passes thrown at him (caught two of them).

Besides, it isn't like Williams has done much of anything yet either. One catch for 3 yards (albeit a TD) is hardly worth pimping.

MontrealCruiser_83*
09-20-2005, 02:12 PM
It actually has NOTHING to do with either of those.

Not trading Moss or drafting BWM wouldn't make Tice and Loney any less of idiots. Having BMW or Moss wouldn't make Withrow a starting-caliber center.

The biggest shortcoming is not wearing a helmet. It is the inept coaching staff. Last year, they did more with less. Linehan has proven to be a bigger loss than Moss. Moss was hurt from the Saints game on last season, they didn't look this bad.

As for BWM, way to early to see who is the better player. While I wanted BWM more and also think he will be the better player, give them more than 2 career games before making any of those conclusions.
I'm not saying Mike Williams would of changed anything... I was just pointing out what the Vikings got in return for Moss.

You're right, the biggest shortcoming isn't wearing a helmet. Tice and the GM both messed up bad by letting Moss go for nothing. If they could of gotten a pair of impact players in return, chances are they wouldn't be 0-2.

MontrealCruiser_83*
09-20-2005, 02:16 PM
Why is Williamson nowhere in sight?

Might that have something with Tice keeping him on the sideline for all but a dozen or so plays? It might also have something to do with him having all of 4 passes thrown at him (caught two of them).

Besides, it isn't like Williams has done much of anything yet either. One catch for 3 yards (albeit a TD) is hardly worth pimping.
Umm, I was referring to last summer when the Williams fiasco went down. Williamson was a nobody 12 months ago. He basically came out of nowhere after a decent season and a few nice showings prior to the draft.

JCD
09-20-2005, 02:57 PM
I'm not saying Mike Williams would of changed anything... I was just pointing out what the Vikings got in return for Moss.

You're right, the biggest shortcoming isn't wearing a helmet. Tice and the GM both messed up bad by letting Moss go for nothing. If they could of gotten a pair of impact players in return, chances are they wouldn't be 0-2.

If you are saying that the Vikes got hosed on the Moss trade, I agree. If you are saying that trade is responsible for the current fiasco, then I disagree. It isn't a matter of a lack of talent or players, it is a lack of execution and coaching. Perhaps if one of those players was Jim Brown in his prime, then perhaps. But short of that, no player (or two players) would have changed the Vikes' fate. It isn't teams picking on a chink in the armor, it is the Vikes being buck naked with no armor on at all. It isn't a question of trying to figure out what is wrong, it is a problem finding anything that has gone right. When through two games your punter is the only guy who looks decent, you have serious problems.

JCD
09-20-2005, 02:59 PM
Umm, I was referring to last summer when the Williams fiasco went down. Williamson was a nobody 12 months ago. He basically came out of nowhere after a decent season and a few nice showings prior to the draft.

True enough, but that really doesn't change much. Way too early to call either one better than the other. While I tend to agree with you than Williams is the better prospect, give them time to find out. Warrick was a better prospect than Chad Johnson as well.

GKJ
09-20-2005, 03:27 PM
I think it is more like a transisitonal year for the Vikes. Next offseason they should go out and pick up a good WR who knows how to play.

Mathletic
09-20-2005, 03:55 PM
The Bills don't have the best defense in the league. They just beat up on weak offenses.

And Bucs fans are ****** bags, BTW.

what happened ?

Impossibles
09-20-2005, 04:35 PM
That's great and all, but Super Bowl contenders (and that's the point, isn't it? To win the Super Bowl?) who have a bona fide defense will be able to game plan him to death. The way Mike Vick currently plays will not get his team to the Super Bowl.

That's pretty tough to say. He did beat Philly in the season opener, and last time I checked, they were in the Superbowl last season.

He definately has to become a better passer, but he's still young. Vick has won more games at this age than Peyton has.

Dr Love
09-20-2005, 04:53 PM
Vick has won more games at this age than Peyton has.
No he hasn't. Vick has won 24 regular season games in which he has started going into this season, his age 25 season.

Manning won 26 regular season games he started entering his age 25 season.

If you count playoffs, Vick has won the same amount.

clefty
09-20-2005, 05:36 PM
And Bucs fans are ****** bags, BTW.

In reference to....

JCD
09-20-2005, 05:48 PM
I think it is more like a transisitonal year for the Vikes. Next offseason they should go out and pick up a good WR who knows how to play.

WR is actually quite deep. No stud, but tough to find a better 5-deep squad than Nate Burleson, Marcus Robinson, Travis Taylor, Troy Williamson and Koren Robinson.

Vike's roster is as talented as near any team in the league. What they lack is worthwhile coaching. The Vikes have the smallest coaching staff in the league. Every one of them is pulling double-duty. When you have poor coaches to begin with, overloading them with responisbilities isn't going to help. All of them are likely fired after this season. Tillman has been a disaster his entire stay; Cottrell has proven to be a downgrade from O'Leary; Loney is a freaking disgrace and while Tice may be likable, he is dumb as a stump.

Give the Vikes a good coach, they have the talent to beat anybody.

MontrealCruiser_83*
09-20-2005, 06:29 PM
That's pretty tough to say. He did beat Philly in the season opener, and last time I checked, they were in the Superbowl last season.

He definately has to become a better passer, but he's still young. Vick has won more games at this age than Peyton has.
No they weren't. The last Superbowl was Philly vs. NE.

Evilo
09-21-2005, 12:54 PM
Wow, the Steelers managed 8 sacks, including 3 from Polamalu.