Compared to some other teams are Yotes mgt. and coaches a step behind the play?

eye
10-06-2003, 07:56 AM
A boring day at work and I started to think of how I could start a positive thread on the Coyotes, unfortunately, after thinking about the new arena, our prospects tourney win and the great new uni's I was left with the same old questions about this organization. I have this gut feeling that mgt. and or the coaches are a step behind in their way of thinking vs. many other organizations in the league. All summer we have discussed how much more depth there is up front, how much depth we will have in young prospects, how BF wants to play an up tempo style of hockey which he later conrtradicted himself to say he wants to be a big physical defensively responsible team.

Teams that are on the rise in the NHL and/or compete for the Cup every year do have things in common. The Yotes IMHO do not and are underskilled, oversized, slow compared to many other teams that are improving their clubs and I don't just mean skating speed slow. Sure we have some decent skaters but I'm talking about the intelligence level and ability of this team to think and react quickly on the ice. I think we have the weakest blueline in the Western Conference. I think building a big tough physical team like the Yotes are attempting to do is about 5 years too late and a step behind. I'm all for size if the player plays big, is quick and has decent skills but many or Yotes are clones of each other. The game has evolved over the last 5 years, rules are being enforced better than they were. Ice conditions are improving thoughout the league. Better sticks and equipment etc. Successful teams today seem to build around smarts, skill, grit and quickness. They don't get hung up on size all the time. They add solid systems that alllow for creative play but demand attention to detail on special teams and in their defensive schemes. We scored 11 goals in 7 x-games, gave up 21, had less than 20 shots in many of these games, lost 5 of them, our D had 1 goal which was a fluke goal by Spiller our only goal by a prospect and overall not a lot to be encouraged about other than I think we had a pretty good draft this past year considering we didn't have any high picks. Next year we do have some high picks but it's projected to be the worst draft year in years, just our luck.

I apologize for pointing out the obvious once again but that optimism I was starting to buy into late in the summer is wavering once again. Is a new coach with a fresh outlook the answer? To be honest I'm not sure how about the rest of you?

Guest
10-06-2003, 08:34 AM
If I were the Coyotes management, I would be all about putting the most entertaining product on the ice. I don't think we're a market that can support a team that is soley a winner, it has to be an entertaining team. You are trying to win over new fans in a market like Phoenix, and trying to expose the team to the city. A marginal team that sometimes makes the playoffs, and sometimes wins, is not going to do it. Even if the team won a Cup, it would not attract enough of a following to draw people to the game in my opinion. Case in point, New Jersey. As a hockey fan I'd love to have the Devils in Phoenix because I like the sport, but they wouldn't draw a dime here. That's what the game is all about too, it's a business.

If people went to the game and the action was fast paced, not slow and prodding, if there was scoring at both ends of the rink, instead of 3 goals scored total, people would show up to the games.

I think we should be building around skill more and watch the size within reason. Briere for Gratton might work out for us in the end, but you hate to lose a guy like Briere for a guy like Gratton. If the team was setup more with skill than Briere would have succeeded because of it. Count defensive weaknesses aside, under the right circumstances every player in the NHL can be successful.

I can understand letting a guy like Numminen go, I don't blame them for the Markov or Savage trades. They are trying to stock the farm and get some youth on this team. Perhaps Freddie will be part of the team going with more finesse. I just see them building a big slow team as well.

CoyoteBaloney
10-06-2003, 08:40 AM
The Briere thing again. He was waived throughout the entire NHL in 2000, cleared waivers and sent to the minors. Until Briere gets established there is nothing that can be said to tell me that his 32 goal season of 2001-2002 is anything more than a fluke.

LT
10-06-2003, 09:23 AM
I still have this belief, sometimes the best defence comes from having a great offense. If I owned a team that's how I would run my team, and yes I too would have kept Briere.

What does confuses me about the ownership is there direction. This is the same group that brought in Amonte and paid him decent money, then brought in Savage and overpaid him, also brought in Boucher and as well overpaid him. Why overpay these players? Then too add salt to the wound they trade Amonte, loose Simpson and get nothing back. Couldn't they get draft picks? Am I missing something here?

Now they're sitting with 3 goaltenders please don't blow this. It seems to me like they're being patient with this so hopefully they won't get ***** by the Flyers again.

Waldo
10-06-2003, 09:30 AM
I like the way this team recovered from last year. Although too late (mostly at the trade deadline) for last year I view all the changes as positive. I agree with the concerns mentioned, but I don't necesarily view them as bad strategy or outdated phylosophy. My biggest concern is the coaching. I agree that they are drafting for size and grit instead of talent, and that may be true, but it may just be the types of players available in a given draft. However, when BF mentions a high tempo, fast skating, strong forchecking team rolling over 4 good lines, he is not talking about the Coyotes. His hockey is a slow, plodding, cycle the puck, defense 1st (2nd and 3rd for that matter) perimeter game. That's the kind of coach he is and that's the kind of coach he always will be. BF is not an imaginitive, tactical, intellectual type coach. It's dump and chase, dump and chase, dump and chase ........, a game they are not very good at. They did not score many goals during X games. The rookies who wanted to seriously challenge for a spot needed to show stellar defensive play in order to have a serious a look. Goal scoring requires a different orientation. It's coaching, coaching, coaching that's the problem. It's a self fulfilling prophecy ..... it's like he's saying " we can't score goals so lets slow the game down, play a plodding peripheral game, dump and chase, and cycle the puck. We'll go for the 1 - 0 or 2 - 1 game cause that's all we can do...." but that's all they can do because they play that slow plodding, dump and chase, cycle the puck peripheral game. We need a young innovative thinker and teacher as a coach and there may not be any.

Gwyddbwyll
10-06-2003, 12:15 PM
Something positive? Its easy eye - expectations around here have been so lowered to the point that anything the Coyotes manage this year will be a surprise :)

Like Waldo said, the team recovered well from a debilitating season. They did actually manage to contend for a playoff spot despite missing Burke for two thirds of the season. We have lost Numminen and Markov but we have regained Burke, Kolanos and Wilson and addressed some of the weaknesses of the team (lacking centers, lacking special teams players).

Hoot
10-06-2003, 02:32 PM
I tend to agree with eye. If you recall my big strategy post from some time ago I stressed a dynamic system with speedy and skilled players. We have been moving in the opposite direction ever since "Old School Barnett" came abord. Or maybe that direction only was more pronounced after he became GM. I'm happy with the Markov for Tanabe and Knyazev trade because I think we got to players that do have the hockey intelligence and speed to be part of a more dynamic system. Unfortunately I also believe that that trade would not have happened had the Coyotes not decieded to cut some salary. So was it a deliberate step in the right direction or was it a necessary evil? Too early to tell. Maybe, and I really hope they do, management drew the right lessons from last seasons dysmal performance. I still recall the Red Wings game. It was like a chess game between a gifted club player (the Coyotes) and a Grandmaster (the Red Wings). Every move the Coyotes made could be read long before it happened by the Red Wings and they frequently were two or three steps ahead of us in their understanding of the game and their reactions to developing situations. Frankly it was embarrassing.

I hated the Teppo trade because we need every bit of help we can in the form of quality young players and picks (=prospects) that we can possibly have for this franchise to have a true chance of turning it's fortunes around and become a true SC contender. What was the point of playing two poor seasons with a mediocre team when everybody knew that the Coyotes were not going to challenge for real anyway. The time to truly rebuild was the seasons before the new arena. Now it looks like we will be stuck with my worst case scenario, if you recall, a solid club with no real prospects of competing for real for the cup. The only way forward in that case is to start all over and rebuild again, which likely won't happen because fans don't have the patience. That is why I was so gutted by the Teppo trade for peanuts (and the missed opportunity to trade Burke for real return).

Imo the only real way forward is to play dynamic, skilled hockey. It is in that direction the game is evolving, and throwbacks (the present stolid Coyotes) won't cut it. Waldo has some very good words about the coaching "However, when BF mentions a high tempo, fast skating, strong forchecking team rolling over 4 good lines, he is not talking about the Coyotes. His hockey is a slow, plodding, cycle the puck, defense 1st (2nd and 3rd for that matter) perimeter game. That's the kind of coach he is and that's the kind of coach he always will be. BF is not an imaginitive, tactical, intellectual type coach." I happen to be a firm believer in the imaginative, tactical and intellectual type of coach because that is the game I like to see. Hockey is as much a mental game as it is a physical game. You need brains and mental strength as well as stamina to be succesful.

ALA YotesPhan
10-07-2003, 06:55 AM
I agree that Booby is way behind the coaching power curve.
I agree the coyotes play a boring dump and chase game.
The fact that Doan is on the point for the power play is proof Booby is a terrible coach. Reminds me of a coach of 6 year olds. Lets see who shoots the hardest, OK number 19, you are the point on the power play. Doan should be down in front of the goal. Amazing things happen when players venture near the goal.
Like Wilson's story of his power play goal in the pre-season. I came out of the box and did not see Booby waving me over for some perimeter player, so I went to the net and the puck went in off me.
I just hope this season the players show a little creativity on the power play. I would like to know what percentage of Doan's shots from the point actually made it on net. I bet less than 10%. Shot wide right, shot blocked by forward. Just once it would be nice to see Doan move to the middle of the ice.

eye
10-07-2003, 07:05 AM
I agree that Booby is way behind the coaching power curve.
I agree the coyotes play a boring dump and chase game.
The fact that Doan is on the point for the power play is proof Booby is a terrible coach. Reminds me of a coach of 6 year olds. Lets see who shoots the hardest, OK number 19, you are the point on the power play. Doan should be down in front of the goal. Amazing things happen when players venture near the goal.
Like Wilson's story of his power play goal in the pre-season. I came out of the box and did not see Booby waving me over for some perimeter player, so I went to the net and the puck went in off me.
I just hope this season the players show a little creativity on the power play. I would like to know what percentage of Doan's shots from the point actually made it on net. I bet less than 10%. Shot wide right, shot blocked by forward. Just once it would be nice to see Doan move to the middle of the ice.

I agree. If you want Doan to play like Bertuzzi, use him like Bertuzzi. Put him in front of the goalie on the power play and if he refuses to do the job, sit him and put someone like Branko in there until he shows a willingness to accepth his role.

eye
10-07-2003, 07:06 AM
Something positive? Its easy eye - expectations around here have been so lowered to the point that anything the Coyotes manage this year will be a surprise :)

Like Waldo said, the team recovered well from a debilitating season. They did actually manage to contend for a playoff spot despite missing Burke for two thirds of the season. We have lost Numminen and Markov but we have regained Burke, Kolanos and Wilson and addressed some of the weaknesses of the team (lacking centers, lacking special teams players).

Is that's all there is to be positive about? You just confirmed my reason for starting this thread.

Hoot
10-07-2003, 07:10 AM
I agree. If you want Doan to play like Bertuzzi, use him like Bertuzzi. Put him in front of the goalie on the power play and if he refuses to do the job, sit him and put someone like Branko in there until he shows a willingness to accepth his role.

Doan had no problems going to the net in the WC's last spring. The reason he had a good tournament was that he went hard to the net. Obviously he should be doing the same thing with the Coyotes.

XX
10-07-2003, 02:13 PM
Doan had no problems going to the net in the WC's last spring. The reason he had a good tournament was that he went hard to the net. Obviously he should be doing the same thing with the Coyotes.

WC's arent as phyiscal as the NHL

hbk
10-07-2003, 02:18 PM
Bobby Francis has been set up to be the sacrificial lamb when the Coyotes falter early on in the season. Count on it.

Hoot
10-07-2003, 02:42 PM
WC's arent as phyiscal as the NHL

Well if Doan is ever to become a real powerforward he has to crash the net, even if it is against NHL d-men.