New NBA Dress Code

Bruinaholic
10-18-2005, 05:49 PM
Theres been alot of talk about this on ESPN and ive read a few articles on it, so i ask do u think this dress code is just?

If i were a player id be irked but it is true that corparate america puts the money in all these players bank accounts.

But id think w/ alot of the players attitudes (being young and rich and having anything they want) they likely will feel held down by the man :dunno:

Stern put down the hammer w/ this one and had some pretty smart comments in response to some of the outspoken players that dont agree w/ this.

The Players dont make the money and get the noterity(sp)with out the League and there is no league without the players, i think a compromise could have been worked out between the Union and the league

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2195141

Epsilon
10-18-2005, 08:10 PM
Stern is just showing once again what a racist hypocrite he is. He hates "hip-hop culture" but has absolutely no problem making a ton of money off of it.

Unholy Diver
10-18-2005, 08:20 PM
My Employer has a dress code, there is no reason that the NBA cant ask its players to look halfway decent

Epsilon
10-18-2005, 08:29 PM
My Employer has a dress code, there is no reason that the NBA cant ask its players to look halfway decent

The NBA doesn't employ the players. If an owner wants to discuss a dress code with the members of his team that's one thing. The NBA has no right mandating anything that has not been collectively bargained.

Also, Mark Cuban has already told Stern that he is going to continue wearing a t-shirt and jeans at games, and that Stern can stick it where the sun don't shine if he doesn't like that.

Unholy Diver
10-18-2005, 08:37 PM
The NBA doesn't employ the players. If an owner wants to discuss a dress code with the members of his team that's one thing. The NBA has no right mandating anything that has not been collectively bargained.

Also, Mark Cuban has already told Stern that he is going to continue wearing a t-shirt and jeans at games, and that Stern can stick it where the sun don't shine if he doesn't like that.

the NBA may not be the employer but Stern is still the boss and thats what matters

and Stern never said he was asking Cuban to comply, he was just saying that the dress code is liberal enough that Cuban could....its not like he is making them wear 3 piece suits at all times, khakis and a collared shirt is hardly a strict policy

Irish Blues
10-18-2005, 09:02 PM
My favorite idiotic comment from an NBA player on this:

"I don't see it happening unless every NBA player is given a stipend to buy clothes" - Marcus Camby, who will make $8 million in 2006-07.

Chartrand
10-19-2005, 11:07 AM
"I don't see it happening unless every NBA player is given a stipend to buy clothes" - Marcus Camby, who will make $8 million in 2006-07.

I didn't know that "stipend" was in Marcus Camby's vocabulary.

Irish Blues
10-19-2005, 11:28 AM
I didn't know that "stipend" was in Marcus Camby's vocabulary.
It's not - his college tutor prepared the statement for him.

MontrealCruiser_83*
10-19-2005, 11:37 AM
I found it inappropriate when players started playing the racial card when the draft age was changed, but this is pretty blatant by Stern. I hope the players go rip**** and make this a big issue because they should be able to wear whatever they want.

Irish Blues
10-19-2005, 11:44 AM
I found it inappropriate when players started playing the racial card when the draft age was changed, but this is pretty blatant by Stern. I hope the players go rip**** and make this a big issue because they should be able to wear whatever they want.
Funny...most of the other major leagues have a dress code for players when appearing at official functions or going to/from games - what's so bad with the NBA requiring one as well?

I have no problem with it. I don't see this as a "Stern is trying to get rid of the hip-hop image" issue, I see it as a "these guys are supposed to be professionals, they should at least dress the part" issue.

Going Back to Cally
10-19-2005, 11:48 AM
Its not a problem for Baseball players.

Douggy
10-19-2005, 12:02 PM
I want to see someone wear a T-Shirt around that says "I love David Stern."

I think the move is a good one, but some of it is misplaced. For example, not allowing any chains or anything is stupid. If you're in a suit, wearing gold won't make you look less classy.

Bruinaholic
10-19-2005, 01:06 PM
caught an interesting bit on ESPN front page...
"Phil Jackson says players have been wearing "prison garb".
I think there will be some backlash for that.......

Also i wouldbnt be shocked if on NBA All Star weekend were all the top players in the game are always courtside during the events decide to go against the dress code which would really catch Sterns attention and stir the pot on the Leagues Big weekend

MontrealCruiser_83*
10-19-2005, 01:11 PM
Funny...most of the other major leagues have a dress code for players when appearing at official functions or going to/from games - what's so bad with the NBA requiring one as well?

I have no problem with it. I don't see this as a "Stern is trying to get rid of the hip-hop image" issue, I see it as a "these guys are supposed to be professionals, they should at least dress the part" issue.
And how does wearing a chain or medallion detract from the professional look?

Sure, they shouldn't be wearing sweatpants 8 sizes too big but if they want to wear a fluorescent pink shirt under a pin-stripe jacket with some jewellry they should be allowed to.

QuickDynamite
10-19-2005, 01:47 PM
My Employer has a dress code, there is no reason that the NBA cant ask its players to look halfway decent

Agreed. Almost every job has a dress code, these guys are getting paid millions of dollars, it's not too much to ask.

Personally I can't stand the NBA. They are full of drug using criminals who act like they get shot whenever another player touches them on the court. These guys are terrible role models.

At least now they'll have some class at their workplace. However it won't stop them from ****** women, getting into shootings and smoking weed.

ACC1224
10-19-2005, 01:47 PM
I want to see someone wear a T-Shirt around that says "I love David Stern."

I think the move is a good one, but some of it is misplaced. For example, not allowing any chains or anything is stupid. If you're in a suit, wearing gold won't make you look less classy.

no it'll make you look like a pimp

Ar-too
10-19-2005, 01:51 PM
This has to be one of the stupidest ideas ever. The NBA has always been about individual personality and talent, at least as long as I've been a fan. Making some sort of uniform dress code is just plain dumb. It removes the cool factor.

Ar-too
10-19-2005, 01:53 PM
Also, I don't think this is a racist thing to do, per se. I do see a little bit of "culturism" though.

Irish Blues
10-19-2005, 02:25 PM
This has to be one of the stupidest ideas ever. The NBA has always been about individual personality and talent, at least as long as I've been a fan. Making some sort of uniform dress code is just plain dumb. It removes the cool factor.
The NBA hasn't been cool for a few years now, I don't care if ESPN covers the NBA 27 hours a day.

Ar-too
10-19-2005, 02:35 PM
The NBA hasn't been cool for a few years now...

I can agree with that, but I think this is a stupid way to try and get the "coolness" back.

ACC1224
10-19-2005, 02:37 PM
I can agree with that, but I think this is a stupid way to try and get the "coolness" back.

I don't think they're doing it to get the coolness back....they want the players to look professional not like they're hanging out at the mall.

ACC1224
10-19-2005, 02:39 PM
The NBA hasn't been cool for a few years now, I don't care if ESPN covers the NBA 27 hours a day.

why do you think that is? the arrogance of the players?

Terrier
10-19-2005, 03:01 PM
The NBA hasn't been cool for a few years now, I don't care if ESPN covers the NBA 27 hours a day.


Don't worry, nowadays their rerunning poker 27 hours a day. Except for a few college football matchups, I don't care about what's on ESPN. I spent last night watching Bruins-Canadiens on OLN. It isn't great, but I'll watch whoever carries hockey.

SwisshockeyAcademy
10-19-2005, 03:09 PM
Our JR.B team has a dress code. I think the NBA players can scrape up enough cash to look professional. If Stern told them they had to wear gold chains over t-shirts and track pants they would probably still be up in arms. They feel they should not be told what to do at anytime;especially by short, white fat guys. In the end I really do not care. Wear whatever the hell you want because the NBA will have a hard time going any lower than it already is.

Epsilon
10-19-2005, 05:08 PM
I think the players should do whatever they can to make a mockery out of this. Some options include:

-wearing jackets inside-out like Will smith in Fresh Prince

-dressing in a total pimp outfit like Deion Sanders used to do on CBS (or even more outlandish, like Rodman)

-wearing shirts and suits that are WAY too big so that they are all baggy and so on

-wearing really tacky and awful suits that look like they cost 20 bucks

-wearing leisure suits

SwisshockeyAcademy
10-19-2005, 05:37 PM
I think the players should do whatever they can to make a mockery out of this. Some options include:

-wearing jackets inside-out like Will smith in Fresh Prince

-dressing in a total pimp outfit like Deion Sanders used to do on CBS (or even more outlandish, like Rodman)

-wearing shirts and suits that are WAY too big so that they are all baggy and so on

-wearing really tacky and awful suits that look like they cost 20 bucks

-wearing leisure suits
In other words , status quo.

Unholy Diver
10-19-2005, 07:20 PM
caught an interesting bit on ESPN front page...
"Phil Jackson says players have been wearing "prison garb".
I think there will be some backlash for that.......


no, thats where that style of pants originated in, Mike and Mike reported that on their show this morning as I thought the same thing

Bab*
10-19-2005, 08:25 PM
Agreed. Almost every job has a dress code, these guys are getting paid millions of dollars, it's not too much to ask.

Personally I can't stand the NBA. They are full of drug using criminals who act like they get shot whenever another player touches them on the court. These guys are terrible role models.

At least now they'll have some class at their workplace. However it won't stop them from ****** women, getting into shootings and smoking weed.

Wow you generalize a whole league because of a few players actions. Don't post if you're going to be a racist idiot. Mst ignorant, disturbing post I've read on this board so far.

QuickDynamite
10-19-2005, 10:22 PM
I think the players should do whatever they can to make a mockery out of this. Some options include:

-wearing jackets inside-out like Will smith in Fresh Prince

-dressing in a total pimp outfit like Deion Sanders used to do on CBS (or even more outlandish, like Rodman)

-wearing shirts and suits that are WAY too big so that they are all baggy and so on

-wearing really tacky and awful suits that look like they cost 20 bucks

-wearing leisure suits

I hope they do. David Stern said something along the lines of "The players better get used to the new dress code. Or get used to not playing in the NBA", something along those lines.

Seriously, these guys need to grow up and stop dressing like a bunch of teenage boys.

QuickDynamite
10-19-2005, 10:30 PM
Wow you generalize a whole league because of a few players actions. Don't post if you're going to be a racist idiot. Mst ignorant, disturbing post I've read on this board so far.

The truth hurts. Face it - NBA players have absolutley no class whatsover. If I had a son (or daughter) i'd never want them taking after these guys as a role model. No wonder the NBA has turned into a joke. I've heard numerous times that around 60% of all the players in the NBA are smoking weed.

devildan
10-19-2005, 10:35 PM
I think the players should do whatever they can to make a mockery out of this. Some options include:

-wearing jackets inside-out like Will smith in Fresh Prince

-dressing in a total pimp outfit like Deion Sanders used to do on CBS (or even more outlandish, like Rodman)

-wearing shirts and suits that are WAY too big so that they are all baggy and so on

-wearing really tacky and awful suits that look like they cost 20 bucks

-wearing leisure suits

Oh go cry me a river. All the other pro sports leagues don’t have a problem with a dress code, so why should the NBA? Maybe the kids coming of the streets with pro dreams wouldn’t act like such ******** if their role models in the NBA had any class.

And no this isn’t a racist thing. Its about the players showing that they are true professionals; not classless thugs who cant dress decently with their $5 mil paychecks.

Free Torts
10-19-2005, 11:04 PM
Oh go cry me a river. All the other pro sports leagues don’t have a problem with a dress code, so why should the NBA? Maybe the kids coming of the streets with pro dreams wouldn’t act like such ******** if their role models in the NBA had any class.

And no this isn’t a racist thing. Its about the players showing that they are true professionals; not classless thugs who cant dress decently with their $5 mil paychecks.
:handclap: :teach:

Bab*
10-20-2005, 12:33 AM
The truth hurts. Face it - NBA players have absolutley no class whatsover. If I had a son (or daughter) i'd never want them taking after these guys as a role model. No wonder the NBA has turned into a joke. I've heard numerous times that around 60% of all the players in the NBA are smoking weed.

When I have kids I certainly wouldn't want them hanging around you. You generalized the whole league as gun shooting, weed smoking, rapists. Now just for clarification, who are these players that **** and shoot guns? Because I'm an NBA fan, and I can't think of anyone that has been criminally charged for any of those things. OK, some of them smoke weed, 80% of kids in my grade smoke weed. I blazed 4 days ago, it's not a big deal anymore...For you to state none of them have any class is the most uneducated, ignorant, and probably racist pile of **** I've ever heard. They do tons of charity work, but just because 1 or 2 guys have been accused of ****(all charges were dismissed)they are all classless? I think you're racist. In fact, I know you're racist.

Someone should ban this guy, he is an embarrassment to this website.

Bab*
10-20-2005, 12:35 AM
:handclap: :teach:

You're a moderator and you are applauding that? Wow, I just lost a lot of respect for this site.

Bab*
10-20-2005, 12:36 AM
Oh go cry me a river. All the other pro sports leagues don’t have a problem with a dress code, so why should the NBA? Maybe the kids coming of the streets with pro dreams wouldn’t act like such ******** if their role models in the NBA had any class.

And no this isn’t a racist thing. Its about the players showing that they are true professionals; not classless thugs who cant dress decently with their $5 mil paychecks.

Why are they classless thugs?

Unholy Diver
10-20-2005, 12:48 AM
Why are they classless thugs?

there is more than just a few parking tickets here

http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2005/07/nba-players-that-get-in-trouble-with_20.html

Bab*
10-20-2005, 12:53 AM
there is more than just a few parking tickets here

http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2005/07/nba-players-that-get-in-trouble-with_20.html

Of course when a majority of a leagues players consist of poverty born adults there is going to be some criminal problems. But that that is still a tiny percentage of the league, and to generalize them is unfair.

If you play on a hockey team, and 1 of those guys is gay, would you like me calling your whole team a bunch of ******s. ecause that is besically what the poster is doing. Do you find that fair?

Unholy Diver
10-20-2005, 01:01 AM
Of course when a majority of a leagues players consist of poverty born adults there is going to be some criminal problems. But that that is still a tiny percentage of the league, and to generalize them is unfair.

If you play on a hockey team, and 1 of those guys is gay, would you like me calling your whole team a bunch of ******s. ecause that is besically what the poster is doing. Do you find that fair?
that is a poor analogy if there ever was one, when was the last time you saw something similar to the Pacers/Pistons thing in hockey? or Football? or Baseball? or Soccer? or any other sport...like it or not the NBA has a bad image and Stern is trying to fix it, maybe he is closing the barn door after the horse has gotten out, but he is doing what he feels is best for the league and as the commish he has that right



and as for your analogy, being gay isnt a crime, the things that those 84 players did were, some of them pretty bad ones at that

Bab*
10-20-2005, 01:03 AM
In fact, just because you guys are so ignorant I am going to do a little math for you.

There were about 90 players convicted of a criminal charege there. And that was atleast over a 15 year span.

90/15 is 6 players per year. There are around 350 players in the league, probably more.

6/350 is about 1.7 % of the league. So since 1.7% of the league has been charged of something criminal then the league is classless thugs?

**** off.

Bab*
10-20-2005, 01:08 AM
that is a poor analogy if there ever was one, when was the last time you saw something similar to the Pacers/Pistons thing in hockey? or Football? or Baseball? or Soccer? or any other sport...like it or not the NBA has a bad image and Stern is trying to fix it, maybe he is closing the barn door after the horse has gotten out, but he is doing what he feels is best for the league and as the commish he has that right



and as for your analogy, being gay isnt a crime, the things that those 84 players did were, some of them pretty bad ones at that

I see fights in hockey all the time. If there were not giant boards seperating the two it would probably have happened. But that is beyond the point. You can't take one example, and use that to describe the players in the league. I don't know why that is so hard to understand.

OK being gay isn't a crime. I could just use the same situation except one of your teamates is an arsonist instead. Now I will use you methods, and call everyone arsonists. Do you understand what I'm getting at?

OT: why don't these posts count towards my post count?

Unholy Diver
10-20-2005, 01:12 AM
In fact, just because you guys are so ignorant I am going to do a little math for you.

There were about 90 players convicted of a criminal charege there. And that was atleast over a 15 year span.

90/15 is 6 players per year. There are around 350 players in the league, probably more.

6/350 is about 1.7 % of the league. So since 1.7% of the league has been charged of something criminal then the league is classless thugs?

**** off.
you are really helping your argument a great deal by acting like a child, it never hurts to be civil

90 players being arrested is still 90 players being arrested, I would be willing to bet you wouldnt find 90 hockey players arrested for felonies in that time period, probably not half that number, and I would be willing to bet the other sports have lower figures as well and a much larger number of players

when a team is nicknamed the "Jailblazers" maybe that would be a hint

either way I dont care for basketball and if the NBA folded tomorrow I wouldnt be bothered one bit, I just find it amusing that such a big huff is being made over Khakis and a collared shirt

Epsilon
10-20-2005, 01:14 AM
I find it funnier that wearing the same thing you wear DURING A GAME off of the court makes someone a "thug". If NHL players wore their team jerseys away from the rink, would they then be "thugs" as well?

Also funny is how the NBA is saying "wearing jerseys is classless" while at the exact same time telling their fans "spend $200 on licensed NBA merchandise so you can look like your favorite player!".

Bab*
10-20-2005, 01:18 AM
you are really helping your argument a great deal by acting like a child, it never hurts to be civil

90 players being arrested is still 90 players being arrested, I would be willing to bet you wouldnt find 90 hockey players arrested for felonies in that time period, probably not half that number, and I would be willing to bet the other sports have lower figures as well and a much larger number of players

when a team is nicknamed the "Jailblazers" maybe that would be a hint

either way I dont care for basketball and if the NBA folded tomorrow I wouldnt be bothered one bit, I just find it amusing that such a big huff is being made over Khakis and a collared shirt

The fact that you still havn't got my point is childish, but that is just my opinion. You can have you ignorant opinion if you wish.

Unholy Diver
10-20-2005, 01:23 AM
The fact that you still havn't got my point is childish, but that is just my opinion. You can have you ignorant opinion if you wish.

thanks for your input, have a nice day

Bab*
10-20-2005, 01:32 AM
thanks for your input, have a nice day

You made a very strong case.... :shakehead

QuickDynamite
10-20-2005, 01:40 AM
When I have kids I certainly wouldn't want them hanging around you. You generalized the whole league as gun shooting, weed smoking, rapists. Now just for clarification, who are these players that **** and shoot guns? Because I'm an NBA fan, and I can't think of anyone that has been criminally charged for any of those things. OK, some of them smoke weed, 80% of kids in my grade smoke weed. I blazed 4 days ago, it's not a big deal anymore...For you to state none of them have any class is the most uneducated, ignorant, and probably racist pile of **** I've ever heard. They do tons of charity work, but just because 1 or 2 guys have been accused of ****(all charges were dismissed)they are all classless? I think you're racist. In fact, I know you're racist.

Someone should ban this guy, he is an embarrassment to this website.

I remember an incident with Allen Iverson a few years ago involving a shooting. I can't remember the details, I don't think he was involved with it directly. It was some of his friends or guys he hangs out with. That speaks volumes of a guys character when his friends are shooting at people.

As far as class. Mostly the older players like David Robinson were respectful players. Nowadays you got guys like Carmello Anthony and Kobe Bryant. Go call in a member of the Vancouver sports media who covered the Grizzlies or listen to Dave Pratt on the Team 1040. They'll tell you horrror stories about the Grizzlies, they couldn't even get an interview with an NBA player if they put a gun to their head.

We should be thankful we are hockey fans here. Hockey players are angels compared to NBA players. NFL has it's rotten apples, but for the most part is good and besides the steroid problems in MLB I think they are pretty close to NHL. NBA is about 5x worse, they disrespect their opponents, they showboat after they dunk the basket, they act like they get shot whenever they are touched and are poor role models. They are terrible ambassadors to their sport and that's why their league is in the toilet right now.

BTW, There's a difference between smoking weed when you're in the eigth grade and when you are a multi million dollar paid athlete. That was a really bad comparison.

QuickDynamite
10-20-2005, 01:47 AM
You're a moderator and you are applauding that? Wow, I just lost a lot of respect for this site.

Maybe you can do everyone a favour and stop posting?

Bab*
10-20-2005, 01:50 AM
I remember an incident with Allen Iverson a few years ago involving a shooting. I can't remember the details, I don't think he was involved with it directly. It was some of his friends or guys he hangs out with. That speaks volumes of a guys character when his friends are shooting at people.

As far as class. Mostly the older players like David Robinson were respectful players. Nowadays you got guys like Carmello Anthony and Kobe Bryant. Go call in a member of the Vancouver sports media who covered the Grizzlies or listen to Dave Pratt on the Team 1040. They'll tell you horrror stories about the Grizzlies, they couldn't even get an interview with an NBA player if they put a gun to their head.

We should be thankful we are hockey fans here. Hockey players are angels compared to NBA players. NFL has it's rotten apples, but for the most part is good and besides the steroid problems in MLB I think they are pretty close to NHL. NBA is about 5x worse, they disrespect their opponents, they showboat after they dunk the basket, they act like they get shot whenever they are touched and are poor role models. They are terrible ambassadors to their sport and that's why their league is in the toilet right now.

BTW, There's a difference between smoking weed when you're in the eigth grade and when you are a multi million dollar paid athlete. That was a really bad comparison.


The league is not in the toilet, and many of the players are role models. I think you remember the Steve Francis incident, else I can't explain your embarrissing comments.

I'm 18 by the way, but nice subtle insult saying I'm in 8th grade. Weed isn't that bad at all, I don't want to go into the whole history of why it is illegal, but I certainly wouldn't look down on someone if they do, simply because they have money.

Bab*
10-20-2005, 01:53 AM
Maybe you can do everyone a favour and stop posting?

Maybe you should stop posting because every post I've read of yours is extremely igorant, and likely racist...

Whats the problem, you don't like someone younger then you, calling you out? Don't say dumb stuff then, it's quite simple.

Epsilon
10-20-2005, 01:56 AM
I've taught my class wearing, among other things, a Dallas Cowboys jersey and a USPS cycling outfit. I guess that makes me a "thug" and a "bad role model".

Lobstertainment
10-20-2005, 01:59 AM
You made a very strong case.... :shakehead

Acctualy he did make a very strong case and you folded like a deck of cards and reverted to childish antics and personal attacks. You would do well to learn from this situation, and from the good Doctor, for the future.

oppinions not withstanding being civil creates a healthy discussion, mudslinging just gets your hands dirty.

Bab*
10-20-2005, 02:05 AM
Acctualy he did make a very strong case and you folded like a deck of cards and reverted to childish antics and personal attacks. You would do well to learn from this situation, and from the good Doctor, for the future.

oppinions not withstanding being civil creates a healthy discussion, mudslinging just gets your hands dirty.

lol are you kidding me?

AKA this guy has 6,000 posts so side with him. Please try and think for yourself. If you don't get my point then you are to far gone to be helped.

I'm sorry, was that uncivil of me?

Epsilon
10-20-2005, 02:07 AM
Something else that needs to happen is one of the league's Christian players needs to wear a cross and then he can sue the NBA when they try to prevent him from wearing it.

Lobstertainment
10-20-2005, 02:17 AM
lol are you kidding me?

AKA this guy has 6,000 posts so side with him. Please try and think for yourself. If you don't get my point then you are to far gone to be helped.

I'm sorry, was that uncivil of me?

I see you have decided to take the mature route. if you think post count has anything to do with what I just said you are sadly mistaken, I have unfortunatly seen some members with post counts into the thousands, with every single one being worse then the last, but I digress, I would appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth, I said "oppinions aside" meaning I didn't disclose my stance on this Dress code, I am mearly trying to help YOU, Help you by telling you that acting like a child gets you treated like a child.

That said I think it's you who is too far gone to be helped, you're obviously having dellusions of granduer, why else would you think that if someone doesn't agree with your oppinion then they are wrong?

Personally I couldn't care less how the players dress off the court, but the DR was at least mature about his arguments and made a case for his oppinion, all you did was say you were right, and he was wrong, anyone who disagrees with your oppinion is wrong. That's not a way to form an argument or to handle a discussion, your immaturity is going to land you in trouble with the Mods if you continue to get hot headed with your comments on the intellgence of other posters. It is not becoming.

Bab*
10-20-2005, 02:29 AM
I see you have decided to take the mature route. if you think post count has anything to do with what I just said you are sadly mistaken, I have unfortunatly seen some members with post counts into the thousands, with every single one being worse then the last, but I digress, I would appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth, I said "oppinions aside" meaning I didn't disclose my stance on this Dress code, I am mearly trying to help YOU, Help you by telling you that acting like a child gets you treated like a child.

That said I think it's you who is too far gone to be helped, you're obviously having dellusions of granduer, why else would you think that if someone doesn't agree with your oppinion then they are wrong?

Personally I couldn't care less how the players dress off the court, but the DR was at least mature about his arguments and made a case for his oppinion, all you did was say you were right, and he was wrong, anyone who disagrees with your oppinion is wrong. That's not a way to form an argument or to handle a discussion, your immaturity is going to land you in trouble with the Mods if you continue to get hot headed with your comments on the intellgence of other posters. It is not becoming.

Okay, I'm going to try and say this one more time, I'm hoping you have misunderstood me.

The people I have disputed with have labeled NBA players as classless thugs, who **** people, shoot guns, and smoke weed. Now what I am saying is that this is unfair. When you generalize a whole group of people based on a tiny percentage of players actions then I have to pull out words like "ignorant" and "idiotic", because that is unfair.

Perhaps I am getting a little frustrated but when they continue to defend their ignorant and possibly racist statements well then so be it. You think I'm being childish? Take a look at what chapel113x said in his first two posts.

The whole stance is childish.

I'm on the fence on the whole dress code issue much like you, but if you read what i'm saying hopefully you understand what I'm getting at.

ACC1224
10-20-2005, 08:51 AM
**** off.

Looks like the NBA has been an excellent role model for you.

Going Back to Cally
10-20-2005, 09:05 AM
Wow you generalize a whole league because of a few players actions. Don't post if you're going to be a racist idiot. Mst ignorant, disturbing post I've read on this board so far.

You really need to read the lounge more.

EDIT: Also the role of 'poster who screams racist at everything that involves blacks' is already taken.

Patty Ice
10-20-2005, 11:39 AM
In other words , status quo.

Where's the rimshot feature?!!

417
10-20-2005, 01:21 PM
Okay, I'm going to try and say this one more time, I'm hoping you have misunderstood me.

The people I have disputed with have labeled NBA players as classless thugs, who **** people, shoot guns, and smoke weed. Now what I am saying is that this is unfair. When you generalize a whole group of people based on a tiny percentage of players actions then I have to pull out words like "ignorant" and "idiotic", because that is unfair.

Perhaps I am getting a little frustrated but when they continue to defend their ignorant and possibly racist statements well then so be it. You think I'm being childish? Take a look at what chapel113x said in his first two posts.

The whole stance is childish.

I'm on the fence on the whole dress code issue much like you, but if you read what i'm saying hopefully you understand what I'm getting at.

I completely agree with pretty much everything you said...people saying hockey players are angels?

Yeah sure, hockey players aren't as recognizable as NBA players in the states, i'm sure they get away with alot of behaviour that less than exemplary...someone pointed out the Piston/Pacers incident...well what happened with Tie Domi a few years ago in Philly? Or what about Theo Fleury antics? or about the brawl in a strip club involving Fleury and a few other Blackhawks players, or Grant Fuhr's struggles with cocaine addiction? I wouldn't be surprised if alot of the players in the NHL play high on coke...what about John Kordic? Bryan Fogarty?

Athlete's are people, and people in society sometimes break the law and act lewd or take drugs...just because they play a sport, we shouldn't expect them to not have the same trials and tribulations that we 'regular' people go through all the time...smoke weed? who cares, I smoke everyday, but I go to work and take care of my business, etc...

I'm on the fence about the dresscode too...while I don't see anything wrong with having one? I question the timing and tactics behind it? Would a dresscode be required if the NBA's players dressed in blue jeans, cowboy boots and abercombie & finch t-shirts? Probably not?

What's so wrong with wearing a jersey, or wearing chains with pendants...their representing their culture, not saying be a thug...it's the viewers who see it that way, the one's who don't understand/appreciate that culture, hip hop culture is a part of the NBA, in fact they've made a ton of money because of it...what's going to happen next, players going back to wearing tight shorts like John Stockton?

What are they so afraid of? Hip hop culture scares america, but they love to make money off it though...hypocrites.

if you're going to institute a dress code, fine, I have no problem with it, but not wearing chains? :dunno: Why cause gangbangers wear chains and are involved involved in criminal activity?Then they should ban the colour white in the dress code too, after all, it's KKK colours :shakehead

Please, it's "culturalism" at it's best...team's should be allowed to have their own individual dress codes...if the Raptors want one, and the Blazers don't...so be it, players conform, but it's almost unconstitutional to demand one...

Here's an example...in my city there's clubs that have dress codes...that's fine, I don't have a problem with it, but some of the clubs (quebec side especially) specifically say that you can't wear baggy jeans...jeans are allowed though, as long as they're not baggy...is that really a dress code? or just a way to not have a particular type of crowd at a venue. I'm sorry, I don't wear my jeans tight, I like to have them loose...if a club has a dress code, it's either jeans or no jeans, why should you dictate what type of jeans I can wear...I mean, they let in people with flip flops, but deny me access because my jeans are a size too big? :dunno:

:shakehead

Bab*
10-20-2005, 01:26 PM
You really need to read the lounge more.

EDIT: Also the role of 'poster who screams racist at everything that involves blacks' is already taken.

Well tell them not to worry, because I'm not like that.

Bab*
10-20-2005, 01:27 PM
Looks like the NBA has been an excellent role model for you.


The other poster had a lot more disturbing things to say then the "f" word. Try reading one of this posts.

Bab*
10-20-2005, 01:27 PM
I completely agree with pretty much everything you said...people saying hockey players are angels?

Yeah sure, hockey players aren't as recognizable as NBA players in the states, i'm sure they get away with alot of behaviour that less than exemplary...someone pointed out the Piston/Pacers incident...well what happened with Tie Domi a few years ago in Philly? Or what about Theo Fleury antics? or about the brawl in a strip club involving Fleury and a few other Blackhawks players, or Grant Fuhr's struggles with cocaine addiction? I wouldn't be surprised if alot of the players in the NHL play high on coke...what about John Kordic? Bryan Fogarty?

Athlete's are people, and people in society sometimes break the law and act lewd or take drugs...just because they play a sport, we shouldn't expect them to not have the same trials and tribulations that we 'regular' people go through all the time...smoke weed? who cares, I smoke everyday, but I go to work and take care of my business, etc...

I'm on the fence about the dresscode too...while I don't see anything wrong with having one? I question the timing and tactics behind it? Would a dresscode be required if the NBA's players dressed in blue jeans, cowboy boots and abercombie & finch t-shirts? Probably not?

What's so wrong with wearing a jersey, or wearing chains with pendants...their representing their culture, not saying be a thug...it's the viewers who see it that way, the one's who don't understand/appreciate that culture, hip hop culture is a part of the NBA, in fact they've made a ton of money because of it...what's going to happen next, players going back to wearing tight shorts like John Stockton?

What are they so afraid of? Hip hop culture scares america, but they love to make money off it though...hypocrites.

if you're going to institute a dress code, fine, I have no problem with it, but not wearing chains? :dunno: Why cause gangbangers wear chains and are involved involved in criminal activity?Then they should ban the colour white in the dress code too, after all, it's KKK colours :shakehead

Please, it's "culturalism" at it's best...team's should be allowed to have their own individual dress codes...if the Raptors want one, and the Blazers don't...so be it, players conform, but it's almost unconstitutional to demand one...

Here's an example...in my city there's clubs that have dress codes...that's fine, I don't have a problem with it, but some of the clubs (quebec side especially) specifically say that you can't wear baggy jeans...jeans are allowed though, as long as they're not baggy...is that really a dress code? or just a way to not have a particular type of crowd at a venue. I'm sorry, I don't wear my jeans tight, I like to have them loose...if a club has a dress code, it's either jeans or no jeans, why should you dictate what type of jeans I can wear...I mean, they let in people with flip flops, but deny me access because my jeans are a size too big? :dunno:

:shakehead

Great post. :clap:

QuickDynamite
10-20-2005, 02:01 PM
Don't say dumb stuff then

That's rich coming from you. Your arguement is "weed isn't that bad". The NBA's players compared to NHL, MLB, NFL is like night and day.

Now I can't wait for your next post. "RACIST, don't say stupid stuff, ******* off!"

QuickDynamite
10-20-2005, 02:09 PM
Athlete's are people, and people in society sometimes break the law and act lewd or take drugs...just because they play a sport, we shouldn't expect them to not have the same trials and tribulations that we 'regular' people go through all the time...smoke weed? who cares, I smoke everyday, but I go to work and take care of my business, etc...

I don't think weed is a big problem either. But it's illegal if you like it or not. And when 60% of the players in the NBA are smoking weed and are looked up to from youth, that's just a great message to send.

People who are aspiring to play in the NBA and don't make it. I'm betting are more than likely to lead a life of crime than a person who apires to play another professional sport with great role models like Allen Iverson, Ron Artest.

Seriously, who would you rather have you son or daughter look up to: Jarome Iginla or Allen Iverson?

MisterUnspoken
10-20-2005, 02:18 PM
A) Weed may not be bad and I advocate legalization, but its currently illegal and when an NBA player gets caught smoking it and kids see it. They tend to think "Hey Allen Iverson smokes it why can't I?"

B) NBA players can wear a suit for an three hours. Go back in the dressing room, put on their "thug" clothes and be done with it. So tell me how three hours out of their day so that the coporate sponsors continue to pay for your beloved basketball is a bad thing?

C) Racist? :shakehead Everyone pulls that out whenever a black is involved. It's insane.

D) NBA players are NOT role models. Mother Theresa, who selflessly devoted herself to bring hope to others, Martin Luther King Jr., who paid the ultimate cost for his devotion to justice with his life, and Muhammad Ali, who was willing to give up his title and risk prison for his religious objections to the Vietnam war -- these are the people who should be considered role models. The phrase "role model" should be a special title for people who exemplify the essence of civic responsibility. An athlete of 19 years, who has done nothing to better his community, does not deserve the honor of being called a role model.

I rest my case.

417
10-20-2005, 02:29 PM
I don't think weed is a big problem either. But it's illegal if you like it or not. And when 60% of the players in the NBA are smoking weed and are looked up to from youth, that's just a great message to send.

People who are aspiring to play in the NBA and don't make it. I'm betting are more than likely to lead a life of crime than a person who apires to play another professional sport with great role models like Allen Iverson, Ron Artest.

Seriously, who would you rather have you son or daughter look up to: Jarome Iginla or Allen Iverson?

Neither...athletes shouldn't be looked upon by children as role models, their parents, teachers, people close to them are who they should look up to. When I was growing up, I played basketball, and MJ was my favorite player, but I didn't look up to him as a person, I looked up to him as a basketball player, my role model growing up was by older brother or father...

And about Allen Iverson, do you know about all the charity work he does for his community, cause the media doesn't bother to report that, it's not newsworthy...

Jarome Iginla or Allen Iverson? who would I have my son look up to?

Well they're both tremendous athletes, so I woudn't have a problem with him looking up to either of them...athletes should only be looked up to for their athletic abilities, not their way of living...I don't want my kids looking up to athletes to determine the type of person they're going to be...

Charles Barkley came off as kind of a brute to many despite his heroics on the basketball court, but one of the smartest things he said was..."I'm not a role model" why would you want someone who you have nothing in common with, be your role model?

ACC1224
10-20-2005, 02:33 PM
Neither...athletes shouldn't be looked upon by children as role models, their parents, teachers, people close to them are who they should look up to. When I was growing up, I played basketball, and MJ was my favorite player, but I didn't look up to him as a person, I looked up to him as a basketball player, my role model growing up was by older brother or father...

And about Allen Iverson, do you know about all the charity work he does for his community, cause the media doesn't bother to report that, it's not newsworthy...

Jarome Iginla or Allen Iverson? who would I have my son look up to?

Well they're both tremendous athletes, so I woudn't have a problem with him looking up to either of them...athletes should only be looked up to for their athletic abilities, not their way of living...I don't want my kids looking up to athletes to determine the type of person they're going to be...

when it's Court Ordered isn't it called Community Service?

Epsilon
10-20-2005, 02:36 PM
Seriously, who would you rather have you son or daughter look up to: Jarome Iginla or Allen Iverson?

I could just as easily say: who would you rather have your son or daughter look up to: Tim Duncan or Toddy Bertuzzi?

Patty Ice
10-20-2005, 02:37 PM
when it's Court Ordered isn't it called Community Service?

I tell ya we need a rimshot for this thread.

417
10-20-2005, 02:38 PM
A) Weed may not be bad and I advocate legalization, but its currently illegal and when an NBA player gets caught smoking it and kids see it. They tend to think "Hey Allen Iverson smokes it why can't I?"

B) NBA players can wear a suit for an three hours. Go back in the dressing room, put on their "thug" clothes and be done with it. So tell me how three hours out of their day so that the coporate sponsors continue to pay for your beloved basketball is a bad thing?

C) Racist? :shakehead Everyone pulls that out whenever a black is involved. It's insane.

D) NBA players are NOT role models. Mother Theresa, who selflessly devoted herself to bring hope to others, Martin Luther King Jr., who paid the ultimate cost for his devotion to justice with his life, and Muhammad Ali, who was willing to give up his title and risk prison for his religious objections to the Vietnam war -- these are the people who should be considered role models. The phrase "role model" should be a special title for people who exemplify the essence of civic responsibility. An athlete of 19 years, who has done nothing to better his community, does not deserve the honor of being called a role model.

I rest my case.

That's the problem right there..."thug" clothes

why do yo label it 'thug' clothes? You label it "thug" clothes, so anytime you see someone wearing it, they're automatically a thug to you, even though you don't know a damn thing about them...

If you saw me right now, you would probably think that i'm a thug or trying to be one, because of the way I dress...when that coudln't be further from the truth...

It's all about perception...if you find big chains, baggy jeans, timberland boots, etc. is thuggish...then you're going to have a problem with it.

You said it yourself, NBA players are not role models, so then who cares about what they where and how it's perceived by everyone...

417
10-20-2005, 02:44 PM
when it's Court Ordered isn't it called Community Service?

You see, your participating in spreading the message that guys with tatoos, cornrows are thugs...what do you really know about him?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_13382.shtml

that was court ordered?...NBA players are probably the most involved in charity work...something the NHL isn't really active in enough IMO

or if you want

http://www.nba.com/features/east_community_040924.html

If you saw this player in the street in what you all call "thug" wear, would you think he's just a thug too?

ACC1224
10-20-2005, 02:50 PM
You see, your participating in spreading the message that guys with tatoos, cornrows are thugs...what do you really know about him?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_13382.shtml

that was court ordered?...NBA players are probably the most involved in charity work...something the NHL isn't really active in enough IMO

I know he left his Rolls Royce in a handicapped spot for a week but justified it because he could afford the ticket.

I know that if he wasn't an NBA player, he'd be "tossing salad's" in jail somewhere.

Bab*
10-20-2005, 02:53 PM
That's rich coming from you. Your arguement is "weed isn't that bad". The NBA's players compared to NHL, MLB, NFL is like night and day.

Now I can't wait for your next post. "RACIST, don't say stupid stuff, ******* off!"

*sigh* You still don't get it....wow.

417
10-20-2005, 02:54 PM
I know he left his Rolls Royce in a handicapped spot for a week but justified it because he could afford the ticket.

I know that if he wasn't an NBA player, he'd be "tossing salad's" in jail somewhere.

:shakehead Wow, you'll just never learn...

You do realize that comment is...i'm not even going to say for fear of causing an uproar here.

But it's the equivalent of saying black people are responsible for America's crime rate :shakehead

It's funny...if you saw me one day, you'd probably never think that i'm 417 TO MTL...it's attitudes like that that will always make it hard to...

forget it...I have to try to remember that i'm on a hockey board...not exactly the most culturally sensitive place now is it?

Bab*
10-20-2005, 02:56 PM
when it's Court Ordered isn't it called Community Service?

What the hell is that?

Honestly it is stuff like that, that really has gotten me angry in this thread. I can't believe you guys could defend a comment like that. Terrible and ignorant.

417
10-20-2005, 02:57 PM
*sigh* You still don't get it....wow.

Give up man, i've already tried...you're trying to explain to a hockey board the many faces of ethinicity, diversity and multiculturalism...

417
10-20-2005, 03:00 PM
What the hell is that?

Honestly it is stuff like that, that really has gotten me angry in this thread. I can't believe you guys could defend a comment like that. Terrible and ignorant.

The worst part is, he doesn't even realize the implications of what he's saying :shakehead it completely flies over his head...

The Mars Volchenkov
10-20-2005, 03:13 PM
Tim Duncan: 'I think it's basically retarded.'

:biglaugh:

Troy McClure
10-20-2005, 03:20 PM
A) ... when an NBA player gets caught smoking it and kids see it. They tend to think "Hey Allen Iverson smokes it why can't I?"

D) NBA players are NOT role models. Mother Theresa, who selflessly devoted herself to bring hope to others....
Points A and D pretty much cancel each other out. So, you're saying athletes do influence kids but are not rule models. Sorry, but athletes are role models and always will be. I don't care how nice Mother Theresa was, no kid has a poster of her on their wall. Whether or not they should be has no bearing here since we're talking reality.

while I don't see anything wrong with having one? I question the timing and tactics behind it?
The timing is pretty obvious, and one guy got the ball rolling: Ron Artest.

What's so wrong with wearing a jersey, or wearing chains with pendants...their representing their culture, not saying be a thug...it's the viewers who see it that way, the one's who don't understand/appreciate that culture
Yes, well a portion (a big portion if you go by the top selling hip hop albums of the past decade) of that culture is about being seen as a thug. The league is trying to rub some of that out, so they put in a dress code much like you find at any other workplace. I know you can tell me all about a culture I don't understand and how the thug thing has nothing to do with it, but I don't buy it. A look at the top 30 songs at OHHLA (http://www.ohhla.com/most.html) (great site) and you can see the majority of songs involve violence. Don't blame America for misunderstanding the message when the blame goes to those delivering the message.

What are they so afraid of? Hip hop culture scares america, but they love to make money off it though...hypocrites.
Yeah, it is a joke. They'll play 50 Cent during the games, put rap in the background of all their commercials, but they get upset when the players dress like the guys in the videos.

QuickDynamite
10-20-2005, 03:21 PM
I could just as easily say: who would you rather have your son or daughter look up to: Tim Duncan or Toddy Bertuzzi?

Tim Duncan. It still doesn't hide the fact that the NBA players who are involved with the law compared to the NHL, MLB or NFL is like night and day.

As a whole who would you rather have your kids look up to as a role model? NHL or NBA players? I'd say NHL players by a wide margin.

And to the other poster - Maybe you are right about professional athletes and they shouldn't be looked up to by youth. But professional athletes are idolized by youth and that will NEVER change.

QuickDynamite
10-20-2005, 03:31 PM
*sigh* You still don't get it....wow.

Get what? You say I generalize the entire NBA. Yet you and I both aknowledge 60% of NBA players are smoking weed.

NBA the league and the NBA players need to clean up their act big time. When the NBA is beating every other major sports with their players involved with the law by (or nearly) double, you have a problem.

Bab*
10-20-2005, 03:40 PM
Get what? You say I generalize the entire NBA. Yet you and I both aknowledge 60% of NBA players are smoking weed.

NBA the league and the NBA players need to clean up their act big time. When the NBA is beating every other major sports with their players involved with the law by (or nearly) double, you have a problem.

When you acknowledge what these statements are wrong:

1.

Agreed. Almost every job has a dress code, these guys are getting paid millions of dollars, it's not too much to ask.

Personally I can't stand the NBA. They are full of drug using criminals who act like they get shot whenever another player touches them on the court. These guys are terrible role models.

At least now they'll have some class at their workplace. However it won't stop them from ****** women, getting into shootings and smoking weed.

2.

The truth hurts. Face it - NBA players have absolutley no class whatsover. If I had a son (or daughter) i'd never want them taking after these guys as a role model. No wonder the NBA has turned into a joke. I've heard numerous times that around 60% of all the players in the NBA are smoking weed.



1.7 percent have been charged criminally, yet "They are full of drug using criminals "

NBA players do more charity work then the NHL yet " NBA players have absolutley no class whatsover" and are "terrible role models"

AND MY FAVORITE, too bad wearing suits won't stop "them from ****** women, getting into shootings and smoking weed"


You're a great role model. You should tell all kids your beliefs.

Bab*
10-20-2005, 03:41 PM
Tim Duncan. It still doesn't hide the fact that the NBA players who are involved with the law compared to the NHL, MLB or NFL is like night and day.

As a whole who would you rather have your kids look up to as a role model? NHL or NBA players? I'd say NHL players by a wide margin.

And to the other poster - Maybe you are right about professional athletes and they shouldn't be looked up to by youth. But professional athletes are idolized by youth and that will NEVER change.

That doesn't make all of them classless thugs. Riighhttt...?

Lobstertainment
10-20-2005, 04:25 PM
Okay, I'm going to try and say this one more time, I'm hoping you have misunderstood me.

The people I have disputed with have labeled NBA players as classless thugs, who **** people, shoot guns, and smoke weed. Now what I am saying is that this is unfair. When you generalize a whole group of people based on a tiny percentage of players actions then I have to pull out words like "ignorant" and "idiotic", because that is unfair.

Perhaps I am getting a little frustrated but when they continue to defend their ignorant and possibly racist statements well then so be it. You think I'm being childish? Take a look at what chapel113x said in his first two posts.

The whole stance is childish.

I'm on the fence on the whole dress code issue much like you, but if you read what i'm saying hopefully you understand what I'm getting at.


I do understand and that was an excellent post from you, that's all I was getting at, and I can agree, there is crime in all sports from all colours, the NBA may have crime in it, but there are lots of positive role models in the Association as well, my only point was that a post like the one I quoted above earns respect on these boards even if the oppinion stated withen is not agrred upon by those reading it, it's still a good post and contribution.

QuickDynamite
10-20-2005, 05:07 PM
1.7 percent have been charged criminally, yet "They are full of drug using criminals "

NBA players do more charity work then the NHL yet " NBA players have absolutley no class whatsover" and are "terrible role models"

AND MY FAVORITE, too bad wearing suits won't stop "them from ****** women, getting into shootings and smoking weed"


You're a great role model. You should tell all kids your beliefs.

So you're saying the NBA is squeaky clean? Kobe Bryant never cheated on his wife and allegedly ***** a woman? I tend to believe the woman over the guy who was sneaking around on his wife.

60% of NBA players smoking weed, so good luck getting me to take that back. I'd hardly call that a small number. I was just using the 60% number for the sake of arguement, i've heard many times it was actually around 65%-70%. Where there's smoke there's fire.

WOW! Only 1.7% have been charged. How many celebrities/athletes ever get charged? Even though they should? Stupid arguement.

I would consider myself a good role model. I refuse to support a league where the majority of players are drug users and have more criminal encounters with the law than any other league by a mile. Which is something you have no problem with.

Do you have any proof NBA players do more charity work than NHL players? I'll believe it when I see some proof instead of hearsay from your part.

Epsilon
10-20-2005, 05:08 PM
Points A and D pretty much cancel each other out. So, you're saying athletes do influence kids but are not rule models. Sorry, but athletes are role models and always will be. I don't care how nice Mother Theresa was, no kid has a poster of her on their wall. Whether or not they should be has no bearing here since we're talking reality.

This is true but then it also raises the following question: if the little kid has a poster of their favorite player on the wall in game action, how is it making a negative impression if the player dresses the same way off of the court? It seems that the only people who are going to see this "corporate image" the NBA is trying to present are the adults who are watching Sportscenter and the like.

I would say that it WOULD be fair to impose a rule saying a player can only wear the cap/jersey/apparel of his current team. That way the players can dress how they want while marketing the NBA's product at the same time.

Yeah, it is a joke. They'll play 50 Cent during the games, put rap in the background of all their commercials, but they get upset when the players dress like the guys in the videos.

Totally agree. The NBA exploits hip-hop culture to make the league appeal to one demographic, while at the same time it speaks out against that culture to try and appeal to another demographic.

A few more thoughts:

1. I wonder if this will annoy companies such as Nike that pay a lot of money for players to endorse their product. I could see apparel companies not wanting to do business with the NBA in the future over this. Also, could a player sue the NBA for forcing him to breach his endorsement contract? (if said contract had some sort of clause it in like "you must wear our product at all public events")

2. The ban on headphones is absolutely ridiculous, given that iPods and the like are the latest fashion trend of middle class America, which is supposedly the demographic these changes are supposed to appeal to.

3. Again, I have to wonder if the ban on headwear and jewelery can actually be upheld if the items in question are of a religious nature.

4. I'd love to see way more players go with cornrows, afros, hair with symbols and words shaved into it, and so on, just to rub the "no headwear" nonsense in Stern's face.

417
10-20-2005, 05:11 PM
Points A and D pretty much cancel each other out. So, you're saying athletes do influence kids but are not rule models. Sorry, but athletes are role models and always will be. I don't care how nice Mother Theresa was, no kid has a poster of her on their wall. Whether or not they should be has no bearing here since we're talking reality.


The timing is pretty obvious, and one guy got the ball rolling: Ron Artest.


Yes, well a portion (a big portion if you go by the top selling hip hop albums of the past decade) of that culture is about being seen as a thug. The league is trying to rub some of that out, so they put in a dress code much like you find at any other workplace. I know you can tell me all about a culture I don't understand and how the thug thing has nothing to do with it, but I don't buy it. A look at the top 30 songs at OHHLA (http://www.ohhla.com/most.html) (great site) and you can see the majority of songs involve violence. Don't blame America for misunderstanding the message when the blame goes to those delivering the message.


Yeah, it is a joke. They'll play 50 Cent during the games, put rap in the background of all their commercials, but they get upset when the players dress like the guys in the videos.

Well I can name you 5 other websites who's top 30 hip hop songs have nothing to do with violence, drugs, bling bling...who's fault is it that the bad hip hop is all that gets the tv/radio play? it's not the artists, 3/4 of these artists aren't even close to what they portray, yet do you think they'd get a deal if they went any other way to a Sony exec. for example?...what some fail to understand, and I just can't see why, is that there's extreme point of views in every type of music.

Anyways, we're kind of deviating from the subject...(hey ACC1224 I learned to read and write when I did some time in jail a few years ago :sarcasm: ) a bit of a subtle jab

Back to the dress code...the real problem is the people who associate what some of these NBA players wear with being thugs. Just because Vince Carter doesn't dress like "the average guy" he's now a thug? Do you think they'd have instituted a dress code in the NBA if Carter, Iverson, James, Stoudamire, Bryant dressed like Chandler from the TV show Friends? Maybe they don't dress like Chandler from friends because they think guys like that look like ***** bags....Why should they have to conform to what some people think is proper casual wear? It's not fair, they shouldn't have to pay for people's ignorance. Wearing baggy jeans lower than my belly button, air force one's and ball jersey's is casual where I come from, because someone else sees it as being thug shouldn't have to be my problem, my actions define who I am, not my clothes...

I don't have a problem with instituting a dress code, but the reason's behind it are just wrong and I too would have trouble accepting it as a player...that's just my opinion

QuickDynamite
10-20-2005, 05:18 PM
That doesn't make all of them classless thugs. Riighhttt...?

Get past it. Not all of them, but alot of them are. Like i've said many times already, more than any other professional league. It's not like these guys are living hard lives either. They make more money in 1 year than most people will see in a life time.

If the NHL was full drug users who showboated after they scored a goal, dove everytime someone touched them and got into more trouble with the law than any other league I would find a new hockey league to watch.

The fact that their is such an uproar from the NBA players over a simple dress code (which pretty much every workplace and sports league has, and it's not even a strict dress code) makes me dislike the league even more than I already do.

Troy McClure
10-20-2005, 05:40 PM
who's fault is it that the bad hip hop is all that gets the tv/radio play?
So what. The fact is that is what's out there and what shapes people's perceptions. As a generic American, it's not my job to change the image of rap by doing more research into it.

Back to the dress code...the real problem is the people who associate what some of these NBA players wear with being thugs. Just because Vince Carter doesn't dress like "the average guy" he's now a thug? Do you think they'd have instituted a dress code in the NBA if Carter, Iverson, James, Stoudamire, Bryant dressed like Chandler from the TV show Friends?
I think they wouldn't have put in a dress code if one of the biggest "thugh life" players hadn't punched a fan. That's how it goes. When I made fart noises while the teacher's back was turned, the whole class got punished. If you really are so upset, ask why Artest felt the need to try and get respect by attacking a fan. I think there you'll find why the NBA is cracking down on styles that the rap genre has connected with thuggery.

Why should they have to conform to what some people think is proper casual wear? It's not fair, they shouldn't have to pay for people's ignorance.
People's idea of professional dress isn't ignorance. And they should have to conform because their union agreed to as part of their new CBA. That's how it goes. If they really cared, the union would have put up a fight.

btn
10-20-2005, 06:02 PM
Isn't it racist to imply that white guys like wearing suits, or that this rule doesn't affect them as well?

NBA players can whine all they want, I just can't see how anyone can call this racist.

Bab*
10-20-2005, 07:41 PM
So you're saying the NBA is squeaky clean? Kobe Bryant never cheated on his wife and allegedly ***** a woman? I tend to believe the woman over the guy who was sneaking around on his wife.

I never said the NBA was squeaky clen way to miss the point. You believe the girl, I believe the jury and the courts.

60% of NBA players smoking weed, so good luck getting me to take that back. I'd hardly call that a small number. I was just using the 60% number for the sake of arguement, i've heard many times it was actually around 65%-70%. Where there's smoke there's fire.

That is hardly a reason to call someone a classless thug.

WOW! Only 1.7% have been charged. How many celebrities/athletes ever get charged? Even though they should? Stupid arguement.

I would consider myself a good role model. I refuse to support a league where the majority of players are drug users and have more criminal encounters with the law than any other league by a mile. Which is something you have no problem with.

Do you have any proof NBA players do more charity work than NHL players? I'll believe it when I see some proof instead of hearsay from your part.

That isn't a stupid argument. It's called logic. Go to there website if you don't believe they're involved in charity. It's one of the bright spots of the league.

417
10-20-2005, 09:56 PM
So what. The fact is that is what's out there and what shapes people's perceptions. As a generic American, it's not my job to change the image of rap by doing more research into it.


I think they wouldn't have put in a dress code if one of the biggest "thugh life" players hadn't punched a fan. That's how it goes. When I made fart noises while the teacher's back was turned, the whole class got punished. If you really are so upset, ask why Artest felt the need to try and get respect by attacking a fan. I think there you'll find why the NBA is cracking down on styles that the rap genre has connected with thuggery.


People's idea of professional dress isn't ignorance. And they should have to conform because their union agreed to as part of their new CBA. That's how it goes. If they really cared, the union would have put up a fight.

You know what, I can't say I disagree with anything you say...What Artest did was horrible, no one can say the opposite, but Ron Artest would of done the same thing whether he was wearing his ball uniform or an armani suit, he's just nuts...plain and simple...Does anyone talk about Theo Fleury's attire whenever he's getting into trouble with, drugs, alcohol, bar fights, etc...I don't think so...and why is that, probably because Fleury dresses just like any ol' regular Joe out there...i'm not calling it racism so nobody imply I am...but there's definately a double standard there...

devildan
10-20-2005, 10:20 PM
The day I can go to work wearing bling and baggy jeans so can they. They get paid a lot of money to play a game that recued most of them from poverty. Least they can do is DRESS like professionals and not like trash straight off the street.

devildan
10-20-2005, 10:31 PM
Does anyone talk about Theo Fleury's attire whenever he's getting into trouble with, drugs, alcohol, bar fights, etc...I don't think so...and why is that, probably because Fleury dresses just like any ol' regular Joe out there...i'm not calling it racism so nobody imply I am...but there's definately a double standard there...

What the hell are you talking about? Do you think they let hockey players come to games dressed in sweats and a wife beater? Nobody is saying that Artest got into a fight because of the way he dresses. The NBA has a horrible perception amongst the common American and getting a dress code is a major step in fixing it.


So what. The fact is that is what's out there and what shapes people's perceptions. As a generic American, it's not my job to change the image of rap by doing more research into it.

exactly

devildan
10-20-2005, 10:43 PM
Why are they classless thugs?

Because life is all about perception.

What do you think of when the name Alex Rodriguez is mentioned? You, or at least most people, think egotistical dick who only cares about himself and money. But did you know that he is a very active member in multiple charities? Probably not.

In hockey terms how about Todd Brashear? Huge stupid goon, right? Guy does nonstop charity work in Philly during the off season. Im talking about living in children’s hospitals style charity work too, not that smile and pose for a picture crap.

So why do you never hear of this stuff? Because these guys are perceived to be dicks. When you see a guy who gets paid $250 million and doesn’t take responsibility for his mistakes or a guy who is paid to snipe at others heads it is easy to forget about the rest of their lives.

The dress code has the same idea. If you can make these guys seem more personable and less the stereotype of typical street thug, then maybe people will respect them more. Understand?

Troy McClure
10-20-2005, 10:50 PM
Ron Artest would of done the same thing whether he was wearing his ball uniform or an armani suit, he's just nuts...plain and simple...Does anyone talk about Theo Fleury's attire whenever he's getting into trouble with, drugs, alcohol, bar fights, etc...
And Stern isn't pretending this will change behavior, but he does hope that it changes perception. That's it. And, yes every person in the country thinks different of a person when they are in a suit vs in casual dress.

But, if I was a player, I'd get back at Stern by dressing like Winson Churchill every game.

http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/media/O7Cz4iyQHf0F.jpg

Epsilon
10-20-2005, 11:22 PM
And Stern isn't pretending this will change behavior, but he does hope that it changes perception. That's it. And, yes every person in the country thinks different of a person when they are in a suit vs in casual dress.

But, if I was a player, I'd get back at Stern by dressing like Winson Churchill every game.

http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/media/O7Cz4iyQHf0F.jpg

I think Iverson should dress like Napoleon Dynamite. Either that or wear a fedora with a rainbow coat and a white suit.

EDIT: or how about Carlton from the Fresh Prince of Bel Air?

Maybe teams can start organizing gags like they have days where everyone dresses the same and make it look like some well-known person or style. Like one day they can all dress like Puffy or something.

Epsilon
10-20-2005, 11:37 PM
Oh and here's one for you:

N - No
B - Black
A - Apparel

MisterUnspoken
10-21-2005, 03:04 AM
That's the problem right there..."thug" clothes

why do yo label it 'thug' clothes? You label it "thug" clothes, so anytime you see someone wearing it, they're automatically a thug to you, even though you don't know a damn thing about them...

If you saw me right now, you would probably think that i'm a thug or trying to be one, because of the way I dress...when that coudln't be further from the truth...

It's all about perception...if you find big chains, baggy jeans, timberland boots, etc. is thuggish...then you're going to have a problem with it.

You said it yourself, NBA players are not role models, so then who cares about what they where and how it's perceived by everyone...


I was using the term "thug clothes" jokingly based on what other posters said.

And no they aren't role models. What do they do to better the community outside of planned events and appearances? Most of the time they do it to keep the atmosphere positive around themselves and the team to sell tickets. "Hey it'd look good if ya gave some poor kids some free stuff or worked in a soup kitchen." Alright thanks public relations guy, I'll get right on that.

I do community service and I've never once been praised and I'm sure no one looks at me as a role model.

Other things they do are more prevalent and promoted by the news like, infidelity & womanizing, drugs, criminal activity, holdouts, arguments, showboating... and these are what kids see.

And you all miss the big point of this being that your beloved game is losing sponsors and this dress code satisfies them. Stephan A Smith and his pro NBA agenda even agreed with me on that point. They don't like promoting the kind of atmoshpere the game represents. Who cares what the overpaid players think, It must be horrible making 8 million a year and having to wear a suit for three hours.

417
10-21-2005, 07:22 AM
What the hell are you talking about? Do you think they let hockey players come to games dressed in sweats and a wife beater? Nobody is saying that Artest got into a fight because of the way he dresses. The NBA has a horrible perception amongst the common American and getting a dress code is a major step in fixing it.




exactly

Find me an NBA player that's come to an NBA game in sweats and a wife beater...My point is, that when hockey players get into trouble, why isn't there dress code and they type of music they listen to come into question also?

Double standard...it's cause they aren't country casual like the good ol' boys want them to be...

417
10-21-2005, 07:54 AM
The day I can go to work wearing bling and baggy jeans so can they. They get paid a lot of money to play a game that recued most of them from poverty. Least they can do is DRESS like professionals and not like trash straight off the street.

Again, you're participating in the perception that these guys are ghetto and all come from poverty :dunno: Do you actually think that?

Dress like professionals? Do you think they would be required to dress like professionals if they dressed like you for example?

That's my big issue, I don't have a problem with a dress code...however, I think the reason's behind it are suspect at best, it's culturalism at it's best and unless you've lived it, you wouldn't know what i'm talking about...

Just because you think it looks like trash straight off the street, doesn't mean it is...their shoes probably costs more than your whole wardrobe. Don't blame them because they have a sense of style and want to stand out as individuals, it's part of their culture and it's who they are (the clothing, not the behaviour)

Just because you like to wear your jeans tight and up your ***, doesn't mean everyone else does...i'll give you an example...

There's no dress code where I work, it's casual...but my casual is different than the next guy's casual...I have my own style, i'm sure alot of them think I dress like a thug, but to me, they all look like ***** bags with no sense of style.

I just find it funny the NBA is trying to step away from the whole hip hop culture, when it's one of it's main markets and has help drive sales through the roof over the last 15 years...The sad part in all of this, and Charles Barkley even said it last night...is guys who aren't into the "thug life" mentality that you all associate with the clothes, is already labelled a thug by a guy like you, just because he chooses to wear his jeans in a different way, or that instead of wearing loafers, he wears air force one's :shakehead

For every Ron Artest, there are 5 guys like Elton Brand for example. As usual, people generalize and lump everyone into the same group when it comes to hip hop. "he dresses like 50 cent, so he must act like him right?" :shakehead

Allen Iverson can get caught drinking and driving, and you all will blame it on his supposed "thug life" mentality.

But Jeff O'Neill gets caught drinking and driving, and there's no mention of the type of music he listens to, or the type of clothing he wears, or the type of friends he hangs around with, or how he was brought up.

(do you not see the double standard there?)

It's because of attitudes like you, that make some women clench their purses when I cross them in the street

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

ACC1224
10-21-2005, 08:26 AM
:shakehead Wow, you'll just never learn...

You do realize that comment is...i'm not even going to say for fear of causing an uproar here.

But it's the equivalent of saying black people are responsible for America's crime rate :shakehead
It's funny...if you saw me one day, you'd probably never think that i'm 417 TO MTL...it's attitudes like that that will always make it hard to...

forget it...I have to try to remember that i'm on a hockey board...not exactly the most culturally sensitive place now is it?

That is not at all what I was saying or intended. I don't generalize or group people together because of one individual. You brought Iverson into the discussion and I made a comment specific to him. I really don't care how they dress, it's that they have an issue with a dress code that I don't like. Either way makes no difference, not an NBA fan, use to be but the arrogance of the players and the lack of respect they show have driven me away.

Curious, what did you do to get put in jail?

Roughneck
10-21-2005, 08:37 AM
This is probably the most overblown issue in the history of the NBA. But here's my take.

If you want to be an individual, dress your own way, do your own thing for all 24 hours of the day, quit playing in the NBA. Most, if not all people with jobs are expected to wear a uniform or dress a certain way whether they like to or not. I do have a problem with the league making this ruling and not the respective teams, but if all the teams sign off on the idea then that's different (even though Cuban wouldn't), but you're getting paid millions of dollars a year to "feed your families" and the league's image hasn't been as low as it is for a while now, whether you like the reasons or not for it.

I don't care either way whether this goes through or not, I don't watch basketball, its just not my thing, but I've always had a problem with seeing players wear jerseys of OTHER TEAMS when they're on the sidelines and if they just changed that it would be a start.

417
10-21-2005, 08:49 AM
That is not at all what I was saying or intended. I don't generalize or group people together because of one individual. You brought Iverson into the discussion and I made a comment specific to him. I really don't care how they dress, it's that they have an issue with a dress code that I don't like. Either way makes no difference, not an NBA fan, use to be but the arrogance of the players and the lack of respect they show have driven me away.

Curious, what did you do to get put in jail?

I wasn't serious...it was a joke...

ACC1224
10-21-2005, 09:10 AM
I wasn't serious...it was a joke...

Nothing funny about going to jail.

Troy McClure
10-21-2005, 09:12 AM
And no they aren't role models. What do they do to better the community outside of planned events and appearances?
They play a game people love to watch. They excite people and serve as a form of escape for your average fan who finds sports a nice way to get away from the drudgery of taxes, paychecks, and bills.

They are role models no matter what you say.

I do community service and I've never once been praised and I'm sure no one looks at me as a role model.
That's because no one cares who you are or what you do. Athletes have thousands and millions of people who are eager to pay lots of money to watch what they do.

devildan
10-21-2005, 09:15 AM
Oh and here's one for you:

N - No
B - Black
A - Apparel

Black Apparel? That is racist sir. :sarcasm:

devildan
10-21-2005, 09:18 AM
blah blah blah pc a load of pc bullcrap

Read the rest of my series of posts. They are kind of escalating to my main point; life is all about perception. You dress like a thug, you are only as good as a thug in the eye of the public. That is how the world works weather you like it or not. You say it yourself. What is difference between Jeff Oneal and AI? Jeff Oneal comes off classy, while AI comes of as a whining thug (well AI actually is a whining, selfish thug - probably not the best example). Why is that?

Perception buddy. Right now the NBA has an incredibly bad stereotype in the nations eye. You want the nations respect? Then dress like a professional. It is damn hard to respect someone who makes that much money in the public eye and dresses like that. The dress code and the draft age for that matter (better education and the players will actually learn how to play team ball) will all help to change that.

devildan
10-21-2005, 09:50 AM
Dress like professionals? Do you think they would be required to dress like professionals if they dressed like you for example?

I think they would be viewed better, but yes. All sports should have a dress code.

Just because you think it looks like trash straight off the street, doesn't mean it is...their shoes probably costs more than your whole wardrobe. Don't blame them because they have a sense of style and want to stand out as individuals, it's part of their culture and it's who they are (the clothing, not the behaviour)

No its not standing out. It is conforming to "black style". I liken it emo cloths. Just because you like emo music dosnt mean you have to dress emo. Just because you are black dosnt mean you have to dress "black". You really want to stand out? Dress like Kayne West. We all saw what that did for his career.

There's no dress code where I work, it's casual...but my casual is different than the next guy's casual...I have my own style, i'm sure alot of them think I dress like a thug, but to me, they all look like ***** bags with no sense of style.

Well exactly. They think you are thug and you think they are nerdy douches. Are you a thug? Probably not. Are the nerdy douches? Probably not. It works both ways. Thats my point.

I just find it funny the NBA is trying to step away from the whole hip hop culture, when it's one of it's main markets and has help drive sales through the roof over the last 15 years...The sad part in all of this, and Charles Barkley even said it last night...is guys who aren't into the "thug life" mentality that you all associate with the clothes, is already labelled a thug by a guy like you, just because he chooses to wear his jeans in a different way, or that instead of wearing loafers, he wears air force one's :shakehead

Guys like me? Welcome to the real world buddy.

It's because of attitudes like you, that make some women clench their purses when I cross them in the street

You dress like a mailman you are as good as a mailman. You dress like a nerd, you are as good as a nerd. You dress like a thug, you are as good as a thug.



poop

BlueAndWhite
10-21-2005, 09:54 AM
The quote I keep hearing over and over again is "I have a dress code at work".

Last time I checked the NBA players wore uniforms during games and practices.

On an unrelated note (mainly because it's something I've never really paid attention to before) but does the NHL mandate what it's players wear to and from the game ?

I've seen footage of NHL players getting off the team bus and IIRC they mainly wear suits. I do know that I've also seen footage of players in more casual attire.

417
10-21-2005, 10:06 AM
Read the rest of my series of posts. They are kind of escalating to my main point; life is all about perception. You dress like a thug, you are only as good as a thug in the eye of the public. That is how the world works weather you like it or not. You say it yourself. What is difference between Jeff Oneal and AI? Jeff Oneal comes off classy, while AI comes of as a whining thug (well AI actually is a whining, selfish thug - probably not the best example). Why is that?

Perception buddy. Right now the NBA has an incredibly bad stereotype in the nations eye. You want the nations respect? Then dress like a professional. It is damn hard to respect someone who makes that much money in the public eye and dresses like that. The dress code and the draft age for that matter (better education and the players will actually learn how to play team ball) will all help to change that.

You said it...it is about perception...since when does Jeff O'Neill come off as classy? after his 3rd or 4th drunk driving arrest :dunno: please

Yeah, there's no double standard here...

Maybe if Allen Iverson and company, and really anyone who's attire is considered thug, dressed like Bryant Gumbel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryant_Gumbel

Maybe that way, you'll be happy...they could also put on blackfaces and entertain the masses like the good ol' days where they had Mistrel shows...

I guess you'll never understand that "dressing like a thug" makes no sense, acting like a thug does...it's two different things, what is it that you don't get?

To you, Allen Iverson dresses like a thug, but to him, and the people he knows, grown up with, went to school with etc. it's not, it's just casual wear like when your wear your flip flops, tight jeans and Abercombie and Finch t-shirts.

Everybody has their own style, you make the mistake of labelling my style of clothing as thug, that's your perception problem. It shouldn't have to mine.

I'll repeat myself because obviously, you're not getting it, I don't have a problem with instituting a dress code, but the reasons behind it stinks, it's not fair, and I think it's attacking a particular ethinicity, and is in some way, a form of descrimination.

if the NBA is going to take this stance, then i'd like them to institute this rule also.

No more shaved heads.

Afterall, we all know that guys with shaved heads are racist skinheads and act like thugs too...let's all lump white guys with shaved heads, in the same boat as those crazy, riot causing, racist skinheads :dunno:

I mean, let's make it fair right?

:shakehead

417
10-21-2005, 10:14 AM
poop

Welcome to the real world?

That's your world, you dress like that, and that's your business, but from where I come from, my friends, my family, it's not considered thug wear by them.

EMO? What the hell is that? I'm sorry, I have no idea what your referring to. But your comment about how Kanye West is, is exactly the type of attitude that's wrong with the world today...to you Kanye West "black style" is acceptable, how do you dictate what style is acceptable for another race?

I just can't believe people actually still think like you in this day and age.

I agree that having a dress code is professional, like you have to wear a suit, nice shoes, a tie, whatever it is...that's fine.

But if there's no dress code, don't look down on me, or label me a thug, because i'm not dressed to what YOU and your friends think is acceptable, because what's acceptable for you, can/is different for me

Troy McClure
10-21-2005, 10:17 AM
You said it...it is about perception...since when does Jeff O'Neill come off as classy? after his 3rd or 4th drunk driving arrest :dunno: please

Yeah, there's no double standard here...
It is not about any one guy. Yes, one a-hole in a suit is still an a-hole. But a group of players walking off a bus and heading into the arena in suits looks much more professional than a group coming off in casual clothes. That's it. Stern wants people to see that group of players and see professionals.

I guess you'll never understand that "dressing like a thug" makes no sense, acting like a thug does...it's two different things, what is it that you don't get?
What you're not getting is that about 90% of the country makes that same connection. Those 90% buy the tickets and watch the games. If those 90% are getting turned off by a thug image, the league would be smart to change that image. And in that 90%, by the way, are many black people as well. Bill Cosby and the older guys are probably loving this.

I'll repeat myself because obviously, you're not getting it, I don't have a problem with instituting a dress code, but the reasons behind it stinks, it's not fair, and I think it's attacking a particular ethinicity, and is in some way, a form of descrimination.
It's attacking a particular group within that ethnicity. Not all of those in that group are a bad lot, but some are. And the ones that are give the rest a bad name because perceptions do carry over no matter how wrong you think that is.

Ar-too
10-21-2005, 10:29 AM
What you're not getting is that about 90% of the country makes that same connection. Those 90% buy the tickets and watch the games. If those 90% are getting turned off by a thug image, the league would be smart to change that image. And in that 90%, by the way, are many black people as well. Bill Cosby and the older guys are probably loving this.

That's all well and good but I don't think it's good for any organization to coddle this sort of stereotyping which IMHO breeds racism.

devildan
10-21-2005, 10:31 AM
Welcome to the real world?

That's your world, you dress like that, and that's your business, but from where I come from, my friends, my family, it's not considered thug wear by them.

But where I (read most) come from it is.

EMO? What the hell is that? I'm sorry, I have no idea what your referring to. But your comment about how Kanye West is, is exactly the type of attitude that's wrong with the world today...to you Kanye West "black style" is acceptable, how do you dictate what style is acceptable for another race?

Thats not what I am saying. You were talking about dressing originally etc. I dont view the way you dress as original; I view it as a stereotype.

I just can't believe people actually still think like you in this day and age.

I agree that having a dress code is professional, like you have to wear a suit, nice shoes, a tie, whatever it is...that's fine.

But if there's no dress code, don't look down on me, or label me a thug, because i'm not dressed to what YOU and your friends think is acceptable, because what's acceptable for you, can/is different for me
Deal with it. I wouldnt go around wearing chains, dripping grease and with a wife beater if I didnt want to be guido. Conform to societys norms or conform to your cultures norms ... that is your choice. Just understand that both have their ups and downs.


I realize I am coming off as curt here, but you have to understand that this is how the world works - both ways may I add. If people in the black community saw a white man walking around with a pocket protector they are going to think honkey. Same thing for the other way around. All about perception.

417
10-21-2005, 10:31 AM
It is not about any one guy. Yes, one a-hole in a suit is still an a-hole. But a group of players walking off a bus and heading into the arena in suits looks much more professional than a group coming off in casual clothes. That's it. Stern wants people to see that group of players and see professionals.

I agree, it looks much more professional if they come down in suits, I think i've stated that several times, but let's say all the NBA players came out of buses looking like Chandler from friends, would there be such an outcry for the need of a dresscode? Don't guys who dress like Chandler also commit crimes, drugs, etc...?

The double standard is my biggest problem in all of this

What you're not getting is that about 90% of the country makes that same connection. Those 90% buy the tickets and watch the games. If those 90% are getting turned off by a thug image, the league would be smart to change that image. And in that 90%, by the way, are many black people as well. Bill Cosby and the older guys are probably loving this.

Again, I agree, but the thug image shouldn't have to do with their clothes, it's their attitudes that need adjustments, the attitudes won't change despite the fact their wearing suits...

It's attacking a particular group within that ethnicity. Not all of those in that group are a bad lot, but some are. And the ones that are give the rest a bad name because perceptions do carry over no matter how wrong you think that is.

Then why is it, Jeff O'Neill's perception of a drunk driver, doesn't give a bad name to the rest of the players in the NHL? Why doesn't Tie Domi's antics spill over to the rest of the players as well? I've seen the way some players dress on TV shows, why isn't anyone labelling that as thug? You're trying to tell me Domi didn't act like a thug when he lept over the boards to beat up some fan? Or Bertuzzi didn't act like a thug in the Moore incident? What about when Theodore flipped off reporters in a rock gesture? Did anyone blame rock for that? Why doens't their choice of music, clothes come into question like it does with NBA players? I know the answer to that, I don't want to get into here because i'm badly outnumbered, and this is probably the last place i'd want to discuss this, this place isn't exactly the most race sensitive place is it? But, it's a troubling question and a definite problem in today's society.

Douggy
10-21-2005, 10:32 AM
The quote I keep hearing over and over again is "I have a dress code at work".

Last time I checked the NBA players wore uniforms during games and practices.

On an unrelated note (mainly because it's something I've never really paid attention to before) but does the NHL mandate what it's players wear to and from the game ?

I've seen footage of NHL players getting off the team bus and IIRC they mainly wear suits. I do know that I've also seen footage of players in more casual attire.
I saw Bettman on TV and he said the NHL has no need for a dress code, and then he rambled on like the politician he is.

But I would guess the teams all have *some* kind of dress code.

417
10-21-2005, 10:34 AM
i like pretzels

You view it as a stereotype? That doesn't make any sense...either way, you should look at the way I dress as original, because I don't dress like probably 98% of the people you know, and that's ok, what's important here is respect. Respect that other people are different, and judge them on their actions, not their appearance.

It's really not hard

417
10-21-2005, 10:39 AM
I saw Bettman on TV and he said the NHL has no need for a dress code, and then he rambled on like the politician he is.

But I would guess the teams all have *some* kind of dress code.

Which brings credence to my point...the NHL doesn't need a dresscode, because they look at people's character, not their clothes? or their upbringing, to judge what type of person they are.

Would it be the same if the NHL's players were majorally black and dressed hip hop? I'm 99% sure it woudn't...and that's where the problem lies...perceptions....

Troy McClure
10-21-2005, 10:39 AM
Again, I agree, but the thug image shouldn't have to do with their clothes, it's their attitudes that need adjustments, the attitudes won't change despite the fact their wearing suits...
The NBA exists as a business to make money not influence social change.

devildan
10-21-2005, 10:39 AM
You view it as a stereotype? That doesn't make any sense...either way, you should look at the way I dress as original, because I don't dress like probably 98% of the people you know, and that's ok, what's important here is respect. Respect that other people are different, and judge them on their actions, not their appearance.

I view it as conforming to the stereotype. IE all black people dress this way. I respect it, but dont talk about it being original.


It's really not hard

Yes it really is. Preconcieved ideas in our head are hard to weed out. Guy w/ pocketprotector = nerd. Huge fat guy with football jersey on = meathead.

devildan
10-21-2005, 10:41 AM
Which brings credence to my point...the NHL doesn't need a dresscode, because they look at people's character, not their clothes? or their upbringing, to judge what type of person they are.

Would it be the same if the NHL's players were majorally black and dressed hip hop? I'm 99% sure it woudn't...and that's where the problem lies...perceptions....

Each team has their own specific dress code which the players have no problem following. This (apparantly) couldnt happen in the NBA.

417
10-21-2005, 10:41 AM
Yes it really is. Preconcieved ideas in our head are hard to weed out. Guy w/ pocketprotector = nerd. Huge fat guy with football jersey on = meathead.

Guy with baggy jeans = thug

yes, you're right

417
10-21-2005, 10:43 AM
The NBA exists as a business to make money not influence social change.

Exactly, but that's exactly what they're doing with this...trying to eliminate the people's association with NBA players as thugs, is that not influencing social change?

The real problem is the mistake of people associating NBA players as thugs because of what they wear and what they in turn see on TV.

The problem is much deeper than just the NBA wanting a dress code IMO, much much deeper

devildan
10-21-2005, 10:48 AM
Guy with baggy jeans = thug

yes, you're right

Weather it be right or wrong (clearly wrong), thats the way society pieces together the puzzle. Unfortunatly one rarley gets to change this perception, because they let a few extreme examples ruin it for them.

Vic Rattlehead*
10-21-2005, 10:58 AM
Does it hurt to wear a suit? These guys are being paid millions and continue to whine about looking professional.

It's just a suit. NHL players do it. NFL players do it. Why do the NBA players have to protest the dress code? Whining and b****ing won't make it go away. In the end, protesting the dress code will just make the players look foolish.

Ar-too
10-21-2005, 11:03 AM
Exactly, but that's exactly what they're doing with this...trying to eliminate the people's association with NBA players as thugs, is that not influencing social change?

The real problem is the mistake of people associating NBA players as thugs because of what they wear and what they in turn see on TV.

The problem is much deeper than just the NBA wanting a dress code IMO, much much deeper

Well said. :clap:

Troy McClure
10-21-2005, 12:47 PM
The real problem is the mistake of people associating NBA players as thugs because of what they wear and what they in turn see on TV.

The problem is much deeper than just the NBA wanting a dress code IMO, much much deeper
If you want to know why the cloting style is matched with the thug image, look no farther than one of the most identifiable guys in rap right now. Below is a poster you can buy. It is a powerful image that stands out and burns into people's understanding of the culture. While I know that isn't all hip hop is about, for a lot of people, that's their only exposure to it. The change needs to come from the culture as much as from people's perceptions of it.

http://www.postersarts.com/Images/50_cent_posters_gun.jpg

Blackalicious said it best in "Shallow Days"
It's time for a new day
an era in rap, conscious styles,
makin' them aware of the happenings
but their ears seem more steered towards
self-annihilation so then they might laugh
and write this off, like I'm out here just
blowing wind, maybe label us soft or unreal,
something they just can't feel, while they yell
"murder murder murder, kill kill kill"

417
10-21-2005, 01:04 PM
If you want to know why the cloting style is matched with the thug image, look no farther than one of the most identifiable guys in rap right now. Below is a poster you can buy. It is a powerful image that stands out and burns into people's understanding of the culture. While I know that isn't all hip hop is about, for a lot of people, that's their only exposure to it. The change needs to come from the culture as much as from people's perceptions of it.

http://www.postersarts.com/Images/50_cent_posters_gun.jpg

Blackalicious said it best in "Shallow Days"

Hey, you don't need to tell me that...I make a counscious effort to listen to counscious rap...so I agree, the message that's being sent by artist that are popular right now, is totally wrong and I find it unfortunate...I couldn't agree with you more here.

Just like in all music, there are extreme point of views, and 50 cent is an extreme point of view, why is it popular I don't know?

I listened to 50 cent about 5 or 6 years ago before the mainstream got a hold of it, it's only now that it's popular on the radio/tv...who makes that decision? the record executives that's who.

50 cent rapping about what he does, is nothing new to me, but for some reason it is to some...why was it not a problem before...

Now a rapper has to portray an image of a thug to get a record deal...I get this from the rap I listen to.

Kaze :"I got to bust my gun to rap? Yo what part of the game is that?"

The change doesn't need to come from the culture, it needs to come from whoever decides what's played on the airwaves and on TV...there will always be gangsta rap, just like there will always be shock rock acts like Marilyn Manson.

Troy McClure
10-21-2005, 01:23 PM
The change doesn't need to come from the culture, it needs to come from whoever decides what's played on the airwaves and on TV...there will always be gangsta rap, just like there will always be shock rock acts like Marilyn Manson.
And you know, that brings up a great analogy. If a groups of white guys in the NBA started dressing like goth kids and Marilyn Manson fans, I think the league would be equally upset. Why? Because the image of an extreme like Marilyn Mason gets put over all people who dress that way when many are really fans of a lame group like the Cure whose lyrics are more about depression and not so much about an anti-establishment message.

The thing to remember is that it's not so much a black/white thing as it is a generational thing. You have an old guy representing a group of old guys telling young guys how to dress.

417
10-21-2005, 01:35 PM
And you know, that brings up a great analogy. If a groups of white guys in the NBA started dressing like goth kids and Marilyn Manson fans, I think the league would be equally upset. Why? Because the image of an extreme like Marilyn Mason gets put over all people who dress that way when many are really fans of a lame group like the Cure whose lyrics are more about depression and not so much about an anti-establishment message.

The thing to remember is that it's not so much a black/white thing as it is a generational thing. You have an old guy representing a group of old guys telling young guys how to dress.

Exactly...that's part of the problem, but to me more specific...

it's an old guy, representing a group of old guys who don't have an ounce of knowledge of what the hip hop culture is really about aside from MTV and BET videos, telling young guys how to dress...

I never said it was a black/white thing...it is on a certain level, but it's not a race issue really as their are plenty of white guys in the NBA who listen to rap as well...

Bab*
10-21-2005, 02:40 PM
Because life is all about perception.
What do you think of when the name Alex Rodriguez is mentioned? You, or at least most people, think egotistical dick who only cares about himself and money. But did you know that he is a very active member in multiple charities? Probably not.

In hockey terms how about Todd Brashear? Huge stupid goon, right? Guy does nonstop charity work in Philly during the off season. Im talking about living in children’s hospitals style charity work too, not that smile and pose for a picture crap.

So why do you never hear of this stuff? Because these guys are perceived to be dicks. When you see a guy who gets paid $250 million and doesn’t take responsibility for his mistakes or a guy who is paid to snipe at others heads it is easy to forget about the rest of their lives.

The dress code has the same idea. If you can make these guys seem more personable and less the stereotype of typical street thug, then maybe people will respect them more. Understand?

The fact that you percieve them is classless thugs is hardly a defense. So yes I understand, understand that you are ignorant and base a few players actions on the whole league. Good for you.

Bab*
10-21-2005, 02:45 PM
Read the rest of my series of posts. They are kind of escalating to my main point; life is all about perception. You dress like a thug, you are only as good as a thug in the eye of the public. That is how the world works weather you like it or not. You say it yourself. What is difference between Jeff Oneal and AI? Jeff Oneal comes off classy, while AI comes of as a whining thug (well AI actually is a whining, selfish thug - probably not the best example). Why is that?

Perception buddy. Right now the NBA has an incredibly bad stereotype in the nations eye. You want the nations respect? Then dress like a professional. It is damn hard to respect someone who makes that much money in the public eye and dresses like that. The dress code and the draft age for that matter (better education and the players will actually learn how to play team ball) will all help to change that.

When I see a guy wearing a a chain and a football jersey with jeans I don't percieve them as thugs. Once again how you percieve things are terribly innaccurate.

ACC1224
10-21-2005, 02:51 PM
The fact that you percieve them is classless thugs is hardly a defense. So yes I understand, understand that you are ignorant and base a few players actions on the whole league. Good for you.

You are going to be in for a big shock once you grow up and get out into the real world.

QuickDynamite
10-21-2005, 03:47 PM
I never said the NBA was squeaky clen way to miss the point. You believe the girl, I believe the jury and the courts.

Like I said. Celebrities/athletes are rarely charged because of their status. Take the fact that almost 0% of these guys are charged with a grain of salt.

That is hardly a reason to call someone a classless thug.

In your opinion it is anyways. The NBA has very little class, you will never change my mind no matter what you say.

That isn't a stupid argument. It's called logic. Go to there website if you don't believe they're involved in charity. It's one of the bright spots of the league.

Again. Give me some proof. Based on what i've seen NHL players doing charity work and NBA players getting in trouble with the law. I find it hard to believe without proof. You could look up any sports league website and find charity work they do.

QuickDynamite
10-21-2005, 03:58 PM
No more shaved heads.

Afterall, we all know that guys with shaved heads are racist skinheads and act like thugs too...let's all lump white guys with shaved heads, in the same boat as those crazy, riot causing, racist skinheads :dunno:

I mean, let's make it fair right?

:shakehead

If they are shaving their heads implying they are racist and are skinheads I have no problem with that. Guys like Iverson are dressing that way to act like they are gangsters or thugs. That just sends the wrong message, especially to young black kids who would idolize him.

QuickDynamite
10-21-2005, 04:08 PM
Does it hurt to wear a suit? These guys are being paid millions and continue to whine about looking professional.

It's just a suit. NHL players do it. NFL players do it. Why do the NBA players have to protest the dress code? Whining and b****ing won't make it go away. In the end, protesting the dress code will just make the players look foolish.

That's the thing. They aren't even being asked to wear suits. This dress code isn't strict at all.

It Kills Me
10-21-2005, 04:58 PM
I want the NBA players to rebel against it ..

It'd be interesting ..

Bab*
10-21-2005, 07:15 PM
You are going to be in for a big shock once you grow up and get out into the real world.

Okay.

Epsilon
10-22-2005, 04:56 PM
I would like to see rappers show up Stern by wearing suits in videos and dressing according to the NBA dress code. Also, a cool concept for a rap video would be a basketball game where all the players are wearing business clothes while they play. Then at some point they all rip off their suits to reveal basketball clothes, and some David Stern lookalike comes out to "reprimand" them, only to subsequently get shot or something.

Epsilon
10-23-2005, 01:14 AM
If you want to know why the cloting style is matched with the thug image, look no farther than one of the most identifiable guys in rap right now. Below is a poster you can buy. It is a powerful image that stands out and burns into people's understanding of the culture. While I know that isn't all hip hop is about, for a lot of people, that's their only exposure to it. The change needs to come from the culture as much as from people's perceptions of it.

http://www.postersarts.com/Images/50_cent_posters_gun.jpg

Blackalicious said it best in "Shallow Days"

Shouldn't that appeal to "Red State America" or whatever it is the NBA is trying to reach out to? I mean, it emphasises two of their favorite cultural elements: Jesus and guns. :D

SwisshockeyAcademy
10-23-2005, 09:08 PM
I would like to see rappers show up Stern by wearing suits in videos and dressing according to the NBA dress code. Also, a cool concept for a rap video would be a basketball game where all the players are wearing business clothes while they play. Then at some point they all rip off their suits to reveal basketball clothes, and some David Stern lookalike comes out to "reprimand" them, only to subsequently get shot or something.
Every post you have says the same thing over and over again. Maybe it is the flashing light that makes you stand out. Maybe its your cry for attention. Here you go. Great post, some really good ideas on how to get back at Stern. You are a genious. E-mail all the teams and maybe they will get together and put an Epsilon patch on their gold medallions to honor the time and effort you put into their anti dress code crusade. What a worthy cause, keep up the good work. "blah, blah , blah, rub it in Stern's face. blah blah blah, make Stern look bad." Blah blah blah. Put some decent clothes on for the the game. Wear whatever the hell you want while everywhere else. How is that a hard thing to do? How is that repressive?

Epsilon
10-23-2005, 09:11 PM
Every post you have says the same thing over and over again. Maybe it is the flashing light that makes you stand out. Maybe its your cry for attention. Here you go. Great post, some really good ideas on how to get back at Stern. You are a genious. E-mail all the teams and maybe they will get together and put an Epsilon patch on their gold medallions to honor the time and effort you put into their anti dress code crusade. What a worthy cause, keep up the good work. "blah, blah , blah, rub it in Stern's face. blah blah blah, make Stern look bad." Blah blah blah. Put some decent clothes on for the the game. Wear whatever the hell you want while everywhere else. How is that a hard thing to do? How is that repressive?

Wow, a little touchy are we? Who are you to decide what are "decent" clothes anyway? You seem to think that David Stern is some angel who is beyond reproach and shouldn't be questioned or mocked because of his emminence or something.

SwisshockeyAcademy
10-23-2005, 09:31 PM
Wow, a little touchy are we? Who are you to decide what are "decent" clothes anyway? You seem to think that David Stern is some angel who is beyond reproach and shouldn't be questioned or mocked because of his emminence or something.
David Stern is a fuddy duddy old man. No question. He still oversees the business though. I do not even like the guy but I do not have a problem with business casual or better being worn to work( games). All businesses want their employees to dress the part and it makes them look nice. A man always looks good in a well tailored suit so why would they not wear them? Its childish to throw a tantrum regarding clothing, a case of not liking to be told what to do.

Roughneck
10-24-2005, 09:09 AM
I would like to see rappers show up Stern by wearing suits in videos and dressing according to the NBA dress code.

Like Kanye West?

Also, a cool concept for a rap video would be a basketball game where all the players are wearing business clothes while they play. Then at some point they all rip off their suits to reveal basketball clothes, and some David Stern lookalike comes out to "reprimand" them, only to subsequently get shot or something.

Because Stern is telling them to wear suits, not basketball clothes when they're playing? This makes no sense at all.

417
10-24-2005, 09:41 AM
If they are shaving their heads implying they are racist and are skinheads I have no problem with that. Guys like Iverson are dressing that way to act like they are gangsters or thugs. That just sends the wrong message, especially to young black kids who would idolize him.

Umm no...do I dress the way I do because I want to act like a gangster or thug?

Hell no...I dress like that because it's always the way i've dressed, my big bro dressed like that, his friends did, so did mine, everyone in our entourage does, and I feel comfortable so I do...if I want to act like a thug or a gangster, i'll shoot up a club or something...and if I really wanted to do that, i could wear a suit too...

Again...it's gangster to you because you're not familar with it, and the only people you see associated with that type of clothes are on TV (50 cent for example) but for someone like me, or in this case Allen Iverson, it's just normal everyday wear.

It's like I have a friend who shops at the GAP, or american eagle...I shop at hip hop stores. it's just clothes.

When you don't understand or embrace different cultures, you fear it and try to make it a bad thing because it doesn't conform to your own...that's not right.

Jussi
10-26-2005, 09:24 AM
I've taught my class wearing, among other things, a Dallas Cowboys jersey and a USPS cycling outfit. I guess that makes me a "thug" and a "bad role model".

No, just the sixth member of the Village People.

Jussi
10-26-2005, 09:26 AM
I never said the NBA was squeaky clen way to miss the point. You believe the girl, I believe the jury and the courts.



So I guess you and OJ are still searching for the real killers? I hear Michael Jackson wants to join you guys.

Kardi
10-28-2005, 10:52 AM
Stern is just showing once again what a racist hypocrite he is. He hates "hip-hop culture" but has absolutely no problem making a ton of money off of it.
would you bring your family to a basketball game when you see guys thuged out and look like the guys you see on the streets/rap vids etc.. with all the violence out there and the bad rep ppl that get look thug'd out is over rated but still the nba doesnt want that image, they want fans to bring there familys to games and all that fun stuff

also not all of them look like thugs when they come to the arena but lets be honest whos paying the salarys here? i work and i gotta wear dress shoes dress pants and collared shirt, I HATE wearing that junk but i have to, i rather wear my baggy jeans and a white T but i cant, why should NBA players be any diff from every one else that works, remeber its a JOB.. when players start to play for free then i guess they can wear what they want

and how can you call stern racist? he didnt want high school kids to jump into the nba.. why? not b/c there black and are good at basketball but what if they turn out to be busts? then what? theyd have zero future and would be ****ed, stern just wants these kids to go to college and LEARN and have something as a backup incase there nba careers dont last

i dont understand this black and white crap.. ppl complain about how racist people are these days, well the media keeps bringing it up ie the houston astros having zero black players on there team, so what? who gives a **** what color you are as long as you are good then whats the problem? and all this 'oohh the nba wants to get rid of black people in the nba' that ***** all wack.. athletes are were they are b/c of their talents not the color of their skin

Going Back to Cally
10-28-2005, 11:05 AM
i dont understand this black and white crap.. ppl complain about how racist people are these days, well the media keeps bringing it up ie the houston astros having zero black players on there team,

Hehe, Hank Aaron has turned into a one tune idiot.

Murphy*
10-28-2005, 11:29 AM
would you bring your family to a basketball game when you see guys thuged out and look like the guys you see on the streets/rap vids etc.. with all the violence out there and the bad rep ppl that get look thug'd out is over rated but still the nba doesnt want that image, they want fans to bring there familys to games and all that fun stuff


People bring their families to hockey games, where violence is expected.

benji
10-28-2005, 11:49 AM
Its not a problem for Baseball players.
That's all that needs to be said.

Kardi
10-28-2005, 12:16 PM
People bring their families to hockey games, where violence is expected.
its part of the game?
and do you see hockey players showing up to the arena all thug'd out?

417
10-28-2005, 01:39 PM
its part of the game?
and do you see hockey players showing up to the arena all thug'd out?

Your perception of what you call thugged out is what's wrong...the way 50 cent dresses in his videos, is thug to you right?

Ok...What about LL Cool J...I think we can all agree he doesn't portray the thug image right? What about the way he dresses? It's the same type of clothing as guys like 50 cent, Lloyd Banks, etc wear.

http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/2002/Jul-26-Fri-2002/photos/ll.jpg

Does he perpetrate negative influences in his music or the way he acts, no? So why do people only take the bad apples and completely forget about the guys who are positive and give back to their community?

It's clothes, it's not a way of life...what is wrong with you guys? What is it that's so hard to understand, clothed do not define a man, his actions do.

Or what about Will Smith

http://www.willsmith.net/

That's thug to you right? What if he showed up to a basketball game like dressed like he is there, would you label him a thug? :shakehead

I don't thikn anyone would call Will Smith a thug right? You guys do realize that there are guys in the world who dress what you consider thug, and are great role models and great people?

Wow, so narrowminded :shakehead

If I walk in a club wearing baggy jeans, a jersey, a do rag and shoot up the club...it's not my clothes that make me do that. What about all the child rapist who wear blue jeans, should we call every guy wearing blue jeans sick perverts :dunno:

ACC1224
10-28-2005, 01:50 PM
Your perception of what you call thugged out is what's wrong...the way 50 cent dresses in his videos, is thug to you right?

Ok...What about LL Cool J...I think we can all agree he doesn't portray the thug image right? What about the way he dresses? It's the same type of clothing as guys like 50 cent, Lloyd Banks, etc wear.

http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/2002/Jul-26-Fri-2002/photos/ll.jpg

Does he perpetrate negative influences in his music or the way he acts, no? So why do people only take the bad apples and completely forget about the guys who are positive and give back to their community?

It's clothes, it's not a way of life...what is wrong with you guys? What is it that's so hard to understand, clothed do not define a man, his actions do.
Or what about Will Smith

http://www.willsmith.net/

That's thug to you right? What if he showed up to a basketball game like dressed like he is there, would you label him a thug? :shakehead

I don't thikn anyone would call Will Smith a thug right? You guys do realize that there are guys in the world who dress what you consider thug, and are great role models and great people?

Wow, so narrowminded :shakehead

You're exactly right, no question. Unfortunately in the real world it doesn't work that way, people have perceptions. As much as it's wrong and it sucks thats the way it is.

417
10-28-2005, 02:13 PM
You're exactly right, no question. Unfortunately in the real world it doesn't work that way, people have perceptions. As much as it's wrong and it sucks thats the way it is.

It does suck...I just wish it would stop...it's so frustrating for a guy like me, who when i'm not required to dress formal, can't be taken seriously when I go car shopping, or pay for something with my credit card for example, because to them they see me as some kind of thug.

Like today, i'm at the mall, I'm buying a dress shirt at the bay...I pull out my credit card, the woman ask me for my ID...that's fine and all, but she looks at it for 30 seconds, turns it around, feels it as though its fake and then asks me it's it really me? (like i'm gonna say no) i'm not done either, she has to call in her asst. manager to take a look at the card, once the asst. manager comes, she takes one look at it and asks her employee what the problem is :dunno:

Don't try to tell me for 1 second that that lady didn't do that because of the way I was dressed and what she perceives people who dress like me do...

Anyways, very frustrating

txomisc
10-28-2005, 03:23 PM
You said it...it is about perception...since when does Jeff O'Neill come off as classy? after his 3rd or 4th drunk driving arrest :dunno: please

Yeah, there's no double standard here...

Maybe if Allen Iverson and company, and really anyone who's attire is considered thug, dressed like Bryant Gumbel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryant_Gumbel

Maybe that way, you'll be happy...they could also put on blackfaces and entertain the masses like the good ol' days where they had Mistrel shows...

I guess you'll never understand that "dressing like a thug" makes no sense, acting like a thug does...it's two different things, what is it that you don't get?

To you, Allen Iverson dresses like a thug, but to him, and the people he knows, grown up with, went to school with etc. it's not, it's just casual wear like when your wear your flip flops, tight jeans and Abercombie and Finch t-shirts.

Everybody has their own style, you make the mistake of labelling my style of clothing as thug, that's your perception problem. It shouldn't have to mine.


:shakehead
The style you apparently wear is thug. Whether youre thug or not just as those who wear leather pants and jackets wear biker style, whether they are bikers or not. The fact is a huge percentage of those who are actually thugs dress in a certain way, whether you like it or not, you are going to get lumped in with them. Why? Because you cant afford to give people the benefit of the doubt, when they are dressed like a group of people who commit a large number of violent crimes.

QuickDynamite
10-28-2005, 09:46 PM
Umm no...do I dress the way I do because I want to act like a gangster or thug?

Hell no...I dress like that because it's always the way i've dressed, my big bro dressed like that, his friends did, so did mine, everyone in our entourage does, and I feel comfortable so I do...if I want to act like a thug or a gangster, i'll shoot up a club or something...and if I really wanted to do that, i could wear a suit too...

Again...it's gangster to you because you're not familar with it, and the only people you see associated with that type of clothes are on TV (50 cent for example) but for someone like me, or in this case Allen Iverson, it's just normal everyday wear.

It's like I have a friend who shops at the GAP, or american eagle...I shop at hip hop stores. it's just clothes.

When you don't understand or embrace different cultures, you fear it and try to make it a bad thing because it doesn't conform to your own...that's not right.

UMMMMM.....YES

Clothes like this are related to hip hop music. I'd say about 80-90% of hip hop music involves crime etc. etc. It's the same idea you'd be sending if you dressed like a preppy or a hell's angel.

417
10-31-2005, 08:59 AM
UMMMMM.....YES

Clothes like this are related to hip hop music. I'd say about 80-90% of hip hop music involves crime etc. etc. It's the same idea you'd be sending if you dressed like a preppy or a hell's angel.

What exactly do you know about hip hop?

What you hear is probably 20% of what it actually consists of...you wouldn't know real hip hop if it hit you in the head... :shakehead

You do realize that there's more hip hop in the world than what you hear/see on MTV, BET, VH1...I can name you 100 aristist right now, who's music has nothing to do with crime.

Double standards :shakehead

Dr Love
10-31-2005, 09:01 AM
I can't believe this is a 7 page issue. Just about every job in life, from hourly wage jobs to law firms, have some form of a dress code. Why pro sports should be any different is beyond me.

417
10-31-2005, 09:03 AM
The style you apparently wear is thug. Whether youre thug or not just as those who wear leather pants and jackets wear biker style, whether they are bikers or not. The fact is a huge percentage of those who are actually thugs dress in a certain way, whether you like it or not, you are going to get lumped in with them. Why? Because you cant afford to give people the benefit of the doubt, when they are dressed like a group of people who commit a large number of violent crimes.

Well correct me if i'm wrong, but don't members of bike gangs such as Hell's Angels also wear leather pants and leather jackets?

Aren't members of Hell's Angels considered thugs as well?

Don't they participate in criminal activity such as trafficking, murder, extortion, etc.

Why aren't leather pants and jackets considered "thug"?

I know the answer to all that, but most of you aren't ready to hear it, so i'll keep it to myself

Again, double standard :shakehead

417
10-31-2005, 09:05 AM
I can't believe this is a 7 page issue. Just about every job in life, from hourly wage jobs to law firms, have some form of a dress code. Why pro sports should be any different is beyond me.

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact there's a dress code, I have no problem with a dress code in the NBA, in fact, I encourage it...however

The reasons behind it, stink and border on discrimination...that's just my opinion

Dr Love
10-31-2005, 09:10 AM
The reasons behind it, stink and border on discrimination...that's just my opinion
This is what I don't understand. The jobs you're going to have throughout your life, you're going to have a dress code. Just like everyone else. The NBA doesn't want their players wearing what they--and a lot of people--percieve to be trashy clothes. Again, this is no different than any other job. I do not believe that race had an alterior motive. There are plenty of black players who dress well, and there are white players who dress like trash. They're simply asking professionals to present themselves in a professional manner. I don't see how that's discrimination.

417
10-31-2005, 09:26 AM
This is what I don't understand. The jobs you're going to have throughout your life, you're going to have a dress code. Just like everyone else. The NBA doesn't want their players wearing what they--and a lot of people--percieve to be trashy clothes. Again, this is no different than any other job. I do not believe that race had an alterior motive. There are plenty of black players who dress well, and there are white players who dress like trash. They're simply asking professionals to present themselves in a professional manner. I don't see how that's discrimination.

I understand that, and I agree with it...my issue is it's singling out a culture, not necessarily a race, i'm sure their are white guys in the NBA who listen to hip hop and dress it to...it's not about white and black...

For example, when you say, "no chains with big pendants can be worn outside of clothing." :dunno: what the hell is that?

That's not a dress code, it's either you allow chains, or you dont...

I just keep wondering if NBA players all dressed like the "average guy" at games, would they have instituted a dress code? I really doubt it.

Ar-too
10-31-2005, 09:40 AM
I just keep wondering if NBA players all dressed like the "average guy" at games, would they have instituted a dress code? I really doubt it.

Exactly. You never heard anybody complain about Tim Duncan because he dressed like kindof a slob at games sometimes. If it was just that, we wouldn't be seeing a dress code. It's because of guys like Allen Iverson that we're seeing this.

Dr Love
10-31-2005, 09:56 AM
I understand that, and I agree with it...my issue is it's singling out a culture, not necessarily a race, i'm sure their are white guys in the NBA who listen to hip hop and dress it to...it's not about white and black...
And that culture does not say "professional." There are literally millions of jobs that have employees of that culture that dress professionally for their jobs. I do not see how it is unreasonable to have NBA players dress professionally.

417
10-31-2005, 10:32 AM
And that culture does not say "professional." There are literally millions of jobs that have employees of that culture that dress professionally for their jobs. I do not see how it is unreasonable to have NBA players dress professionally.

Me either...but if your instituting a dress code only because of those players have fit your profile of what a 'thug' is, it's wrong. Because like the poster above me said, had guys been coming to games dressed like Duncan, who's style has often been labelled as 'slob', would they be considered unprofessional? I don't think so, it would just be normal because it's normal to the average person....

I completely understand where your coming from, trust me, I would never think of coming to work, or going anywhere dressed with baggy pants, chains, etc. That part I think 99% of NBA players understand it...what irks me and others is that the dress code is directed towards a certain group, that's the issue.

Dr Love
10-31-2005, 10:44 AM
Me either...but if your instituting a dress code only because of those players have fit your profile of what a 'thug' is, it's wrong.
My reasons are for looking like a professional. IMO jeans and a plain white shirt isn't professional either, for example.


I completely understand where your coming from, trust me, I would never think of coming to work, or going anywhere dressed with baggy pants, chains, etc. That part I think 99% of NBA players understand it...what irks me and others is that the dress code is directed towards a certain group, that's the issue.
But that's what all dress codes are for--the minority of employees that won't dress like professionals.

417
10-31-2005, 11:12 AM
My reasons are for looking like a professional. IMO jeans and a plain white shirt isn't professional either, for example.



But that's what all dress codes are for--the minority of employees that won't dress like professionals.

Hey, I don't disagree with any of that...It would be interesting though to see if a dress code would be implemented if all players wore blue jeans, white t-shirts and cowboy boots to the games though.

txomisc
10-31-2005, 11:16 AM
Well correct me if i'm wrong, but don't members of bike gangs such as Hell's Angels also wear leather pants and leather jackets?

Aren't members of Hell's Angels considered thugs as well?

Don't they participate in criminal activity such as trafficking, murder, extortion, etc.

Why aren't leather pants and jackets considered "thug"?

I know the answer to all that, but most of you aren't ready to hear it, so i'll keep it to myself

Again, double standard :shakeheadYou are so hung up on the world thug. Youre so mad about the label, blame 2pac. Go ahead and say it. You think its because of the color of their skin. Its an easy way for you to make it seem like everyones out to get the black man, rather than actually deal with things. Its a crutch. Bikers are just as likely to get the reaction of a woman clutching her purse and walking a little faster when she sees them, just as they do with the thug style.

417
10-31-2005, 11:26 AM
You are so hung up on the world thug. Youre so mad about the label, blame 2pac. Go ahead and say it. You think its because of the color of their skin. Its an easy way for you to make it seem like everyones out to get the black man, rather than actually deal with things. Its a crutch. Bikers are just as likely to get the reaction of a woman clutching her purse and walking a little faster when she sees them, just as they do with the thug style.

I guess you failed to read the many times I said it's not a white/black thing, it's about a culture thing, as there are white people who listen to rap :shakehead

I didn't bring it up, you did...and I don't blame 2pac for the label, I blame people who can't disassociate the clothes from the man...maybe you fit in this category, I don't know :dunno:

txomisc
10-31-2005, 12:16 PM
I guess you failed to read the many times I said it's not a white/black thing, it's about a culture thing, as there are white people who listen to rap :shakehead

I didn't bring it up, you did...and I don't blame 2pac for the label, I blame people who can't disassociate the clothes from the man...maybe you fit in this category, I don't know :dunno:No but you certainly seemed to have implied it. Apparently I was wrong. If so, explain this "I know the answer to all that, but most of you aren't ready to hear it, so i'll keep it to myself" Is that just an empty statement? If not, why don't you give this great elusive answer? Open all our eyes.
Furthermore, you say you are mad at the people who cant disassociate the clothes from the man. My point was, we can't afford to. The simple fact is alot of people who dress like thugs are dangerous, and giving those people the benefit of the doubt can cost you your life.

Troy McClure
10-31-2005, 12:17 PM
It would be interesting though to see if a dress code would be implemented if all players wore blue jeans, white t-shirts and cowboy boots to the games though.
If the players dressing like that attacked fans and also were getting into similarly disproportionate amount of trouble like that found among the guys acting out the thug life, then yes the league would be stepping in to to try and downplay the redneck idiot perception being fostered by the fact that more troublemakers happen to dress one way versus another. Is it fair to those who don't get in trouble? No, but whoever said fairness was a right.

417
10-31-2005, 12:34 PM
If the players dressing like that attacked fans and also were getting into similarly disproportionate amount of trouble like that found among the guys acting out the thug life, then yes the league would be stepping in to to try and downplay the redneck idiot perception being fostered by the fact that more troublemakers happen to dress one way versus another. Is it fair to those who don't get in trouble? No, but whoever said fairness was a right.

That doesn't make any sense...

Do you think that the players behaviour will change because they're now wearing suits? That makes absolutely no sense and is ridiculous...

Using your logic...everyone who wears blue jeans is a drunk driver, after all, Jeff O'Neill has been charged with drunk driving on a couple of occasions and he wears blue jeans :dunno:

"Who said fairness was right?"

I can't wait until the next time an NBA player gets in trouble, you guys going to blame it on "the corporate look"?

If there's a brawl at another basketball game this season, you won't be able to blame their "thug dress code", what will it be then?


Are you serious? who says fairness is right?

Wow :shakehead I rest my case

txomisc
10-31-2005, 12:40 PM
That doesn't make any sense...

Do you think that the players behaviour will change because they're now wearing suits? That makes absolutely no sense and is ridiculous...

Using your logic...everyone who wears blue jeans is a drunk driver, after all, Jeff O'Neill has been charged with drunk driving on a couple of occasions and he wears blue jeans :dunno:

"Who said fairness was right?"

I can't wait until the next time an NBA player gets in trouble, you guys going to blame it on "the corporate look"?

If there's a brawl at another basketball game this season, you won't be able to blame their "thug dress code", what will it be then?


Are you serious? who says fairness is right?

Wow :shakehead I rest my case
The simple fact is, people do act differently to a degree based on how they are dressed. It is a large part of the reason why nightclubs have dress codes. People dress nicer, they feel nicer, they are a bit less likely to get into trouble.

417
10-31-2005, 12:46 PM
No but you certainly seemed to have implied it. Apparently I was wrong. If so, explain this "I know the answer to all that, but most of you aren't ready to hear it, so i'll keep it to myself" Is that just an empty statement? If not, why don't you give this great elusive answer? Open all our eyes.
Furthermore, you say you are mad at the people who cant disassociate the clothes from the man. My point was, we can't afford to. The simple fact is alot of people who dress like thugs are dangerous, and giving those people the benefit of the doubt can cost you your life.

Not true...that's an absolutely false statement, and even if it were true, do you think their attitude or their behaviour would change just because they're wearing suits?

Do you really believe this?

And about my statement, what I meant was that...

There's a double standard, doesn't matter if you're white or black...there's double standards.

When guys in the NHL get into trouble with the law, there's no mention about their lifestyle, their choice of clothing or music.

But when guys in the NBA get into trouble witht he law, it's the opposite

Sheldon Souray almost got arrested after a domestic dispute last weekend, did anyone here mention the way he dresses? What type of music he listens to?

Yet someone in this very thread mentionned Iverson's "thug life" when referring to his domestic dispute

Do you not see the double standard?

I can't be the only one who sees it, and don't give me some bull**** about how "that's just the way it is" because that's what exactly wrong with people today

Epsilon
10-31-2005, 12:48 PM
The simple fact is, people do act differently to a degree based on how they are dressed. It is a large part of the reason why nightclubs have dress codes. People dress nicer, they feel nicer, they are a bit less likely to get into trouble.

This is actually not true at all. I have a friend who worked as a bouncer at a trendy nightclub and he said all the dress code did was attract a different type of violent clientelle, mainly Asian gangs and drug dealers who roll up in pimped out cars wearing desinger suits yet are still packing guns and looking for trouble.

txomisc
10-31-2005, 12:53 PM
Not true...that's an absolutely false statement, and even if it were true, do you think their attitude or their behaviour would change just because they're wearing suits?

Do you really believe this?

And about my statement, what I meant was that...

There's a double standard, doesn't matter if you're white or black...there's double standards.

When guys in the NHL get into trouble with the law, there's no mention about their lifestyle, their choice of clothing or music.

But when guys in the NBA get into trouble witht he law, it's the opposite

Sheldon Souray almost got arrested after a domestic dispute last weekend, did anyone here mention the way he dresses? What type of music he listens to?

Yet someone in this very thread mentionned Iverson's "thug life" when referring to his domestic dispute

Do you not see the double standard?

I can't be the only one who sees it, and don't give me some bull**** about how "that's just the way it is" because that's what exactly wrong with people today
What?? You honestly dont believe that alot of people who dress like thugs are dangerous? What rock are you living under. Follow me here.
Gang members dress like that.
There are alot of gang members.
Gang members are dangerous
Alot of people who dress like that are dangerous. Its simple fact. How you can disagree with that is beyond me. I did not say they were all dangerous, I said alot.

417
10-31-2005, 12:55 PM
This is actually not true at all. I have a friend who worked as a bouncer at a trendy nightclub and he said all the dress code did was attract a different type of violent clientelle, mainly Asian gangs and drug dealers who roll up in pimped out cars wearing desinger suits yet are still packing guns and looking for trouble.

Exactly...there are bad people no matter what they wear, the colour of their skin, the type of music they listen to...

It doesn't matter....a popular club where I live has a dress code to keep the "thug" clientčle out, yet that club is owned by bikers who deal in heavy **** so what the hell is that dress code for I ask?

To keep guys like me, who dress "thug" out? and keep the other guys who wear suits but infest our streets, nightclubs with narcotics in the club?

Yeah, that's great logic :shakehead

txomisc
10-31-2005, 12:55 PM
This is actually not true at all. I have a friend who worked as a bouncer at a trendy nightclub and he said all the dress code did was attract a different type of violent clientelle, mainly Asian gangs and drug dealers who roll up in pimped out cars wearing desinger suits yet are still packing guns and looking for trouble.Well your friends experiences are much different than mine. I worked at a hip-hop nightclub for many many years. I can tell you that everyone I've worked with would note that the same people in different clothes acted differently.

Troy McClure
10-31-2005, 01:05 PM
Do you think that the players behaviour will change because they're now wearing suits? That makes absolutely no sense and is ridiculous...
Again and throughout this thread you have missed the point of what the dress code does.

It's not that changing the clothes will change the behavior, but that changing the clothes will to some degree upgrade the visual perception of the collective group of players because they will look more professional. This is about what fans and sponsors think when they see the players. That's it. And we on first impression think better of a person the nicer they are dressed.

Using your logic...everyone who wears blue jeans is a drunk driver, after all, Jeff O'Neill has been charged with drunk driving on a couple of occasions and he wears blue jeans
That's not my logic at all. You're talking about one guy. I'm talking about a group, those we're calling NBA thugs, that has per captia more criminal troubles than other NBA players. Yes, not all do, but that higher rate gives the whole a bad name. That the thug image as heroicly displayed in movies and music is also heavily criminal only solidifies the negative perception.

Now, if you were to show that the jeans wearing hockey players got into more trouble than other hockey players and in addition, jeans wearers in general had celebrated drunk driving in the media, then I could understand the connection you are trying to make where we would start to associate drunk driving with jeans wearing hockey players.

Are you serious? who says fairness is right?
You misquoted me and I think confused the point. Fairness is not a right when it comes to things like doing what your boss tells you. What I think is fair about my work dress code is meaningless because I am not entitled to such fairness at work. I have the choice of conforming or finding another job.

417
10-31-2005, 01:09 PM
What?? You honestly dont believe that alot of people who dress like thugs are dangerous? What rock are you living under. Follow me here.
Gang members dress like that.
There are alot of gang members.
Gang members are dangerous
Alot of people who dress like that are dangerous. Its simple fact. How you can disagree with that is beyond me. I did not say they were all dangerous, I said alot.

Well let's see, 90% of my friends and entourage dress what you consider as thug, they're not gang members, so no, that statement is false...in fact most of the people I know who are involved into heavy crime, don't dress thug.

You are partly right though...

Gang members are dangerous....but gang members come in all different shapes, colours, sizes and way of dressing.

I'll tell you one thing, the guys who run everything in my city are lebanese and asian (not to mention the white bikers) and none of them wear what you consider thug wear.

Follow?

417
10-31-2005, 01:14 PM
Again and throughout this thread you have missed the point of what the dress code does.

It's not that changing the clothes will change the behavior, but that changing the clothes will to some degree upgrade the visual perception of the collective group of players because they will look more professional. This is about what fans and sponsors think when they see the players. That's it. And we on first impression think better of a person the nicer they are dressed.


That's not my logic at all. You're talking about one guy. I'm talking about a group, those we're calling NBA thugs, that has per captia more criminal troubles than other NBA players. Yes, not all do, but that higher rate gives the whole a bad name. That the thug image as heroicly displayed in movies and music is also heavily criminal only solidifies the negative perception.

Now, if you were to show that the jeans wearing hockey players got into more trouble than other hockey players and in addition, jeans wearers in general had celebrated drunk driving in the media, then I could understand the connection you are trying to make where we would start to associate drunk driving with jeans wearing hockey players.


You misquoted me and I think confused the point. Fairness is not a right when it comes to things like doing what your boss tells you. What I think is fair about my work dress code is meaningless because I am not entitled to such fairness at work. I have the choice of conforming or finding another job.

I understand what the dress code does, i've said about 10 times that I agree with it...my issue is, it's targeting a certain group...

and that certain group is being unfairly lumped into the same category, just because of a few bad apples, those bad apples will continue to be bad apples whether there's a dress code or not.

Troy McClure
10-31-2005, 01:17 PM
Gang members are dangerous....but gang members come in all different shapes, colours, sizes and way of dressing.
Yes, that all does depend on where you live. I'm sure the rough and tumble areas of Montreal where people assult dust bins have their own breed of criminal, but where I am from and where I live now, that thug image goes pretty well hand in hand with a good reason to fear for your health and belongings.

If I dropped someone, anyone off in Oak Cliff (south dallas) or East Cleveland, they would see pretty much a living rap video. Now, are all the people dangerous. No, of course not. But, you know for a fact that the person dropped off will be a lot more afriad of that group of guys dressed as thugs walking their way than if it was a group of guys in suits and tophats.

Oil_slick9416*
10-31-2005, 01:19 PM
i don't see how this is any different then having a dress code at anyother place of business

417
10-31-2005, 01:22 PM
Yes, that all does depend on where you live. I'm sure the rough and tumble areas of Montreal where people assult dust bins have their own breed of criminal, but where I am from and where I live now, that thug image goes pretty well hand in hand with a good reason to fear for your health and belongings.

If I dropped someone, anyone off in Oak Cliff (south dallas) or East Cleveland, they would see pretty much a living rap video. Now, are all the people dangerous. No, of course not. But, you know for a fact that the person dropped off will be a lot more afriad of that group of guys dressed as thugs walking their way than if it was a group of guys in suits and tophats.

We're talking about 2 different things here though....

What is thug wear really?

Baggy jeans?

Do you not wear jeans too?

You label it as thug, because someone chooses to wear it differently than you do, but in the end, their both jeans, which means that I guess you could be considered a thug too...

Is it long chains with big pendants?

Do you not wear chains around your neck too?

You label it as thug, because it's worn differently than you do, but in the end, it's all the same.

A person's actions determines whether or not they're thugs, not their clothes.

txomisc
10-31-2005, 02:16 PM
Well let's see, 90% of my friends and entourage dress what you consider as thug, they're not gang members, so no, that statement is false...in fact most of the people I know who are involved into heavy crime, don't dress thug.

You are partly right though...

Gang members are dangerous....but gang members come in all different shapes, colours, sizes and way of dressing.

I'll tell you one thing, the guys who run everything in my city are lebanese and asian (not to mention the white bikers) and none of them wear what you consider thug wear.

Follow?
The statement is true whether you want to admit it or not. Alot of people who dress like thugs commit crimes. Not all. Not even more than half, but alot. It is a factual statement. You should be able to admit as much.

txomisc
10-31-2005, 02:19 PM
We're talking about 2 different things here though....

What is thug wear really?

Baggy jeans?

Do you not wear jeans too?

You label it as thug, because someone chooses to wear it differently than you do, but in the end, their both jeans, which means that I guess you could be considered a thug too...

Is it long chains with big pendants?

Do you not wear chains around your neck too?

You label it as thug, because it's worn differently than you do, but in the end, it's all the same.

A person's actions determines whether or not they're thugs, not their clothes.
We dont label it as thug. Rapstars and gang members proclaim their lives as the thug live and their style as the thug style. Like i said, look at 2pac. The guy had thug life tattooed on his stomach, correct? Youve got millions of people dressing exactly like him, carrying himself like him, and you dont think they are going to be associated with him?

ACC1224
10-31-2005, 02:20 PM
Well let's see, 90% of my friends and entourage dress what you consider as thug, they're not gang members, so no, that statement is false...in fact most of the people I know who are involved into heavy crime, don't dress thug.

You are partly right though...

Gang members are dangerous....but gang members come in all different shapes, colours, sizes and way of dressing.

I'll tell you one thing, the guys who run everything in my city are lebanese and asian (not to mention the white bikers) and none of them wear what you consider thug wear.

Follow?

I may start dressing that way just so I can have an entourage.

Epsilon
10-31-2005, 02:23 PM
i don't see how this is any different then having a dress code at anyother place of business

Because the NBA already has a dress code for when players are working: it's called the team jersey and uniform. Somehow that attire is perfectly fine for the players to be wearing when they are on the court (which is aslo when they are most visible), but it's not for when they are on the bench or walking around? It's also stupid because it's not the actual emplyer setting the dress code, but rather another example of Herr Stern trying to control everything about the league's "image". People who work at banks and so on show up in suits because that is what they are going to be wearing for the workday, not because it is more "professional" to be dressed up fancily going from one's home to place of employment.

Also, the suggestion that some have made that this is the only acceptable way to dress "professionally" is patently false. Academic and tech industry jobs provide two examples of large fields of employment where the conservative banker/lawyer look is rarely required.

ACC1224
10-31-2005, 02:31 PM
Because the NBA already has a dress code for when players are working: it's called the team jersey and uniform. Somehow that attire is perfectly fine for the players to be wearing when they are on the court (which is aslo when they are most visible), but it's not for when they are on the bench or walking around? It's also stupid because it's not the actual emplyer setting the dress code, but rather another example of Herr Stern trying to control everything about the league's "image". People who work at banks and so on show up in suits because that is what they are going to be wearing for the workday, not because it is more "professional" to be dressed up fancily going from one's home to place of employment.

Also, the suggestion that some have made that this is the only acceptable way to dress "professionally" is patently false. Academic and tech industry jobs provide two examples of large fields of employment where the conservative banker/lawyer look is rarely required.

True but we also don't dress like we're going to put a cap in your ***.

417
10-31-2005, 02:44 PM
The statement is true whether you want to admit it or not. Alot of people who dress like thugs commit crimes. Not all. Not even more than half, but alot. It is a factual statement. You should be able to admit as much.

Ok...you know what, I give up....but I swear...the first sign of an NBA player getting in trouble this year after this dress code thing has been implemented...

I'll start a "corporate wear" thread saying everyone in suits are thugs too...

****ing ridiculous :shakehead

417
10-31-2005, 02:47 PM
True but we also don't dress like we're going to put a cap in your ***.

So you don't wear jeans, shirts and own a chain around your neck?

What, you walk around naked?

ftyutin51
10-31-2005, 03:16 PM
So you don't wear jeans, shirts and own a chain around your neck?

What, you walk around naked?

I think he wears jeans but not the ones that fall under your *** so everybody can see your underwear. And I think he wears shirts, just not the kind that females can wear as a dress with heels. And chains, maybe they don't have to be hanging so low and when you walk, they sway back and forth like some yo-yo.

**I don't think the NBA should enforce it, rather, a single team or player can choose what they want to wear and if they think it's appropiate to wear xxl t-shirts, low jeans and sneakers to a press conference or a team promotion, then so be it. But, I think the least the players could do is when they do have a meeting or some sort of interaction with the rest of the world, dress what the world feels what's proper attire and don't let yourself fall into the group of "non-educated, classless thugs who will never amount to anything other than a gangbanger even though they have a lot of money".

txomisc
10-31-2005, 04:02 PM
Ok...you know what, I give up....but I swear...the first sign of an NBA player getting in trouble this year after this dress code thing has been implemented...

I'll start a "corporate wear" thread saying everyone in suits are thugs too...

****ing ridiculous :shakehead What a load. Did anyone? I repeat, ANYONE say that everyone who dresses like this is a thug?

Troy McClure
10-31-2005, 04:52 PM
I'll start a "corporate wear" thread saying everyone in suits are thugs too...
Say that all you want, and it won't shake the perception that people dressed as thugs are more likely to be criminals than people dressed in suits.

417
10-31-2005, 09:57 PM
I think he wears jeans but not the ones that fall under your *** so everybody can see your underwear. And I think he wears shirts, just not the kind that females can wear as a dress with heels. And chains, maybe they don't have to be hanging so low and when you walk, they sway back and forth like some yo-yo.

**I don't think the NBA should enforce it, rather, a single team or player can choose what they want to wear and if they think it's appropiate to wear xxl t-shirts, low jeans and sneakers to a press conference or a team promotion, then so be it. But, I think the least the players could do is when they do have a meeting or some sort of interaction with the rest of the world, dress what the world feels what's proper attire and don't let yourself fall into the group of "non-educated, classless thugs who will never amount to anything other than a gangbanger even though they have a lot of money".

So because people choose to wear their jeans differently than you do, and their t-shirts differently than you do, their thugs?

That's great...

This is useless...

417
10-31-2005, 09:58 PM
Say that all you want, and it won't shake the perception that people dressed as thugs are more likely to be criminals than people dressed in suits.

Obviously it won't...

Ar-too
10-31-2005, 11:28 PM
True but we also don't dress like we're going to put a cap in your ***.

That's racist.

Roughneck
11-01-2005, 06:52 AM
So because people choose to wear their jeans differently than you do, and their t-shirts differently than you do, their thugs?

That's great...

This is useless...

It's because they're wearing them like the thug perception promoted by the mainstream hip hop culture. That or they want to be some early 90s grunge fan or skater boy which I don't think is the case.

Wearing jeans below their *** isn't just frowned upon for thugs, any kid (white or black) who does has a negative reaction from the community. This was done before hip hop was cool, then they stole it from those cool suburban kids.

417
11-01-2005, 09:45 AM
It's because they're wearing them like the thug perception promoted by the mainstream hip hop culture. That or they want to be some early 90s grunge fan or skater boy which I don't think is the case.

Wearing jeans below their *** isn't just frowned upon for thugs, any kid (white or black) who does has a negative reaction from the community. This was done before hip hop was cool, then they stole it from those cool suburban kids.

Just another way of wearing jeans IMO...

Some people wear it over their belly buttons, big deal...who's to say what's acceptable and what's not.

Roughneck
11-02-2005, 09:25 AM
who's to say what's acceptable and what's not.

Whoever is in charge.

It Kills Me
11-02-2005, 09:30 AM
Just another way of wearing jeans IMO...

Some people wear it over their belly buttons, big deal...who's to say what's acceptable and what's not.
http://www.dcist.com/images/2005_0308_urkel.jpg http://www.postersarts.com/Images/50_cent_posters_gun.jpg

Both are acceptable.

417
11-02-2005, 10:03 AM
Whoever is in charge.

That's not what i'm talking about...what I was saying is both me and you wear jeans...maybe you like to wear them tight, I like to wear them a little looser (not hanging down my ***, that looks ridiculous)

Who's to say what's acceptable in terms of how one wears his jeans, t-shirts, chains? It's all a matter of preference whenever there isn't a pre-determined dress code...

417
11-02-2005, 10:04 AM
http://www.dcist.com/images/2005_0308_urkel.jpg http://www.postersarts.com/Images/50_cent_posters_gun.jpg

Both are unacceptable.

The only thing unacceptable in either picture is the gun fifty is holding...that's not part of wardrobe

Dr Love
11-02-2005, 10:09 AM
The only thing unacceptable in either picture is the gun fifty is holding...that's not part of wardrobe Yes it is. His wardrobe in that photo is a do rag, necklace and gun holster. You can't have a gun holster without a gun, that's just lame.

Troy McClure
11-02-2005, 10:49 AM
The only thing unacceptable in either picture is the gun fifty is holding...that's not part of wardrobe
First hit on a GIS search for 50 cent. Here he is wearing a bullet proof vest, another violence related accessory.
http://entimg.msn.com/i/io/ar/0209/50cent_200x250.jpg

Dr Love
11-02-2005, 10:52 AM
First hit on a GIS search for 50 cent. Here he is wearing a bullet proof vest, another violence related accessory.

Let's be fair. If you were 50 Cent, you'd wear a bullet proof vest too.

ACC1224
11-02-2005, 10:55 AM
Let's be fair. If you were 50 Cent, you'd wear a bullet proof vest too.

bullet proof vests are for wimps....what kind of message is he sending the kids by wearing one?

417
11-02-2005, 11:10 AM
First hit on a GIS search for 50 cent. Here he is wearing a bullet proof vest, another violence related accessory.
http://entimg.msn.com/i/io/ar/0209/50cent_200x250.jpg

How about you do google search on, Little Brother or Kanye West...

You take a gangster rapper and do a search, what do you expect? if you actually realized that gangster rap is just a small (but glorified for some reason) part of rap, then you would also realize that there are plenty of other artist who aren't like him.

I just did a google search on Marilyn Manson...it's a picture of some guy slicing some other's guy's throat with a chainsaw, what's your point?

417
11-02-2005, 11:14 AM
Yes it is. His wardrobe in that photo is a do rag, necklace and gun holster. You can't have a gun holster without a gun, that's just lame.

There's an actual purpose to wearing a do rag...it's not just 'hey i'm trying to be gangster' deal...I have a necklace, do you?

It Kills Me
11-02-2005, 11:17 AM
The only thing unacceptable in either picture is the gun fifty is holding...that's not part of wardrobe

Oppsie, I meant to type in both are acceptable.

Roughneck
11-02-2005, 11:21 AM
How about you do google search on, Little Brother or Kanye West...

If NBA players dressed like Kanye West, there would be no need for the dress code.


You take a gangster rapper and do a search, what do you expect? if you actually realized that gangster rap is just a small (but glorified for some reason) part of rap, then you would also realize that there are plenty of other artist who aren't like him

I just did a google search on Marilyn Manson...it's a picture of some guy slicing some other's guy's throat with a chainsaw, what's your point?

You make it seem that the NBA would be fine if people started dressing like Marilyn Manson, I don't really see what your point is either. Yes "white music" people dress bad too, but thats not the way NBA players are dressing like, there are many high profile players dressing like gangster rappers, not like Marilyn Manson, which players couldn't dress like either with the new dress code.

ACC1224
11-02-2005, 11:52 AM
There's an actual purpose to wearing a do rag...it's not just 'hey i'm trying to be gangster' deal...I have a necklace, do you?

curious, what is the purpose of a do rag?

Dr Love
11-02-2005, 11:55 AM
There's an actual purpose to wearing a do rag...it's not just 'hey i'm trying to be gangster' deal...I have a necklace, do you?
Sarcasm called, it misses you.

Troy McClure
11-02-2005, 12:42 PM
if you actually realized that gangster rap is just a small (but glorified for some reason) part of rap, then you would also realize that there are plenty of other artist who aren't like him.
That's not true. Gangst(a/er) rap is not a small portion. It is the majority of all rap. Take a look at any top rap chart for the past 10 years and try to find an instance where the majority of rap acts were not in some way trying to be gansta rap. Good luck.

I know there are lots of unpopular rappers all over the place who may rap about butterflies, true love, or Jesus, but they are not what is being listened to and not what is being bought by the majority of rap fans. Kanye West is pretty much the exception out there of a guy hitting it big and saying he's religious.

I just did a google search on Marilyn Manson...it's a picture of some guy slicing some other's guy's throat with a chainsaw, what's your point?
And that is why no company would want their employees dressing like Marilyn Manson fans, because of the stereotypes created in part by the artist and the fans.

Roughneck
11-02-2005, 12:57 PM
That's not true. Gangst(a/er) rap is not a small portion. It is the majority of all rap. Take a look at any top rap chart for the past 10 years and try to find an instance where the majority of rap acts were not in some way trying to be gansta rap. Good luck.


And lets not forget about two of the most influencial rappers of all time, Tupac and Notorious, were both victims of gang related violence, even if that isn't what their music was really about.

Roughneck
11-02-2005, 01:02 PM
curious, what is the purpose of a do rag?

First of all, I would like to say that I created this word and it is really spelled dew-rag. The purpose of this rag is obviously to protect one's head hairs from becoming dewed upon while sleeping outside through the wee morning hours.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=do+rag

This really seems to be the only practical purpose, but UnderArmor skull caps are way cooler, especially when white guys wear them walking down the street (which I am seeing way too much of).

BlueAndWhite
11-02-2005, 01:30 PM
First of all, I would like to say that I created this word and it is really spelled dew-rag. The purpose of this rag is obviously to protect one's head hairs from becoming dewed upon while sleeping outside through the wee morning hours.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=do+rag (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=do+rag)

This really seems to be the only practical purpose, but UnderArmor skull caps are way cooler, especially when white guys wear them walking down the street (which I am seeing way too much of).Actually, it's spelt "doo rag".

It's a traditional African-American garment that used to preven the hair from being displaced during actitivities not related to work or while sleeping (used in conjunction with "cornrows")

And before some asks what "corn rows" are; it's a traditional african hair styling/grooming technique where the hair is braided really close to the scalp.

417
11-02-2005, 01:33 PM
Sarcasm called, it misses you.

I don't care if you were being sarcastic or not, I was just saying that there's a purpose to a doo rag...wasn't really direct towards you, just a general statement for those reading this excruciating thread

ACC1224
11-02-2005, 01:53 PM
Actually, it's spelt "doo rag".

It's a traditional African-American garment that used to preven the hair from being displaced during actitivities not related to work or while sleeping (used in conjunction with "cornrows")

And before some asks what "corn rows" are; it's a traditional african hair styling/grooming technique where the hair is braided really close to the scalp.

thanks for the explanation.

Another question. Why do some guys walk around with bath towels around their necks?

417
11-02-2005, 01:55 PM
That's not true. Gangst(a/er) rap is not a small portion. It is the majority of all rap. Take a look at any top rap chart for the past 10 years and try to find an instance where the majority of rap acts were not in some way trying to be gansta rap. Good luck.

I know there are lots of unpopular rappers all over the place who may rap about butterflies, true love, or Jesus, but they are not what is being listened to and not what is being bought by the majority of rap fans. Kanye West is pretty much the exception out there of a guy hitting it big and saying he's religious.


And that is why no company would want their employees dressing like Marilyn Manson fans, because of the stereotypes created in part by the artist and the fans.

I'm sorry, but your a fool...what do you know about hip hop...it's not the majority of all rap, it's what's popular among the youth today (for some stupid reason)

Take a look at the top rap chart for the past 10 years :biglaugh: are you being serious? you must be kidding?

You won't find too much 'real' hip hop on the billboards or the charts as you call it. It's funny, you really only hear/see such a small % of hip hop, yet you base all of your knowledge of it on that. Trust me, if you're looking at charts to try and find rap acts, you're looking in the wrong place. It's kind of like if I only based rock music on what I hear from Kelly Clarkson.

And who decides what the population decides to hear on the radio/tv? It's not the artists, it's the rich corporate executives who decide what gets played or who gets signed to a major deal...so if a guy like 50 cent is flooding the airwaves with negativity all day long, it's not his fault, it's not hip hop's fault. 50 cent has been making records since 98', i've known about 50 cent for ages, it's only the last 2 years he's become popular to the mainstream crowd...

All this violence talk coming out of his mouth isn't new, it's some rich CEO of whatever record label 50's on who decided that's what's popular. You like to blame the artist and the culture, but it's much deeper than that. The real problem is who decides what's being played, and I can assure that that person isn't a thug or a gangster, he's some dude saying to himself he's going to exploit 50's image to make a ton of cash.

Anyways, that may be too much for you to handle, but it's the truth.

Kanye West the only exception? Kanye West religious?

Here's an excerpt from one of his new songs from his latest album

How we stop the black panthers?
Ronald Reagan cooked up an answer
You hear that?
What Gil Scott was hearin
When our heroes and heroines got hooked on heroin.
Crack raised the murder rate in DC and Maryland
We invested in that it's like we got Merril-Lynch
And we been hangin from the same tree ever since
Sometimes I feel the music is the only medicine
So we cook it, cut it, measure it, bag it,sell it
The fiends cop it
Nowadays they cant tell if that's that good ****
We ain't sure man
Put the CD on your toungue yeah, thats pure man.

Because he has one song with the title "Jesus" in it, he's religious? Please. He's talking about drugs in this song, he'll he's implying Ronald Regan got the black community hooked on crack so they can kill themselves...you think just because he's not dressed like 50 cent or doesn't strike you as a thug, he's somehow different than 50 cent and that makes him more acceptable? Wake up man. It's funny, you think you know so much about hip hop, but really, you know so little yet you make judgements on it :shakehead

417
11-02-2005, 01:58 PM
And lets not forget about two of the most influencial rappers of all time, Tupac and Notorious, were both victims of gang related violence, even if that isn't what their music was really about.

That hasn't been proven...there's a reason no arrest have been made in either case. Gang violence my ***

417
11-02-2005, 02:02 PM
Actually, it's spelt "doo rag".

It's a traditional African-American garment that used to preven the hair from being displaced during actitivities not related to work or while sleeping (used in conjunction with "cornrows")

And before some asks what "corn rows" are; it's a traditional african hair styling/grooming technique where the hair is braided really close to the scalp.

I find it so funny you have to break down to people what a doo rag is or what cornrows are :biglaugh:

Anyways, I used to wear a doo rag when I had cornrows, when you go to sleep it prevents it from untangling during sleep. Also for black guys with short hair, it's used to groom hair in a particular way, it can create waves in the hair...but explaining that is a whole other process

BlueAndWhite
11-02-2005, 02:07 PM
As a avid hip-hop enthusiast, I'm tired of "MTV" hip-hop fans saying that Kanye West is the lone bright spot of hip-hop.

While he is better (both in terms of his overall musical content and his artistic ability) than a vast majority of the mainstream hip-hop (pop) artists he is far from being the saving grace of hip-hop music today.

Kanye West is a hypocritical and arrogant producer who is by no means a good rapper (technically speaking). He talks about diamond,money and fancy cars and degrading women just as much as he talks about spiritual healing.

His saving grace lies in the fact that he is a good (not great) producer who knows how to extrapolate soul/motown/old rock samples over catchy drum patterns.

BlueAndWhite
11-02-2005, 02:09 PM
Another question. Why do some guys walk around with bath towels around their necks?
I've seen that as well but don't have the answer to that.

If I were to hazard a guess it would be that basketball players tend to have their towels always drapped around their necks when they are on the bench. It's entirely possible that someone decided to emulate that and pass it off as "fashion".

It's the same reason that "pink" was a popular colour for men and you'd see people wear T-shirts that went down to their knees.

ACC1224
11-02-2005, 02:12 PM
I've seen that as well but don't have the answer to that.

If I were to hazard a guess it would be that basketball players tend to have their towels always drapped around their necks when they are on the bench. It's entirely possible that someone decided to emulate that and pass it off as "fashion".

It's the same reason that "pink" was a popular colour for men and you'd see people wear T-shirts that went down to their knees.

It was, man I'm out of touch.

BlueAndWhite
11-02-2005, 02:22 PM
It was, man I'm out of touch.
Yeah, I guess pink was the "in" thing from winter 2004 to well summer 2005. I'm not sure if it's still around but I don't see as much pink as I did a few months ago.

Either way, consider yourself lucky.

417
11-02-2005, 02:31 PM
As a avid hip-hop enthusiast, I'm tired of "MTV" hip-hop fans saying that Kanye West is the lone bright spot of hip-hop.

While he is better (both in terms of his overall musical content and his artistic ability) than a vast majority of the mainstream hip-hop (pop) artists he is far from being the saving grace of hip-hop music today.

Kanye West is a hypocritical and arrogant producer who is by no means a good rapper (technically speaking). He talks about diamond,money and fancy cars and degrading women just as much as he talks about spiritual healing.

His saving grace lies in the fact that he is a good (not great) producer who knows how to extrapolate soul/motown/old rock samples over catchy drum patterns.

Me either...while I think Kanye West is an extremely talented individual, and is lyrically underrated...he raps about the same ol' bull**** that everyone is complaining about, yet you all get fooled by the fact that he's wearing polo rugby's and yves st-laurent glasses.

It's all perception I guess :shakehead

Kanye West is interesting...he's kind of a median between what good in hip hop today, and also what's bad...he's right in the middle

Troy McClure
11-02-2005, 04:03 PM
I'm sorry, but your a fool...what do you know about hip hop...it's not the majority of all rap, it's what's popular among the youth today (for some stupid reason)
Dear ****ing god, I give up. I swear to god this just a loop of arguments. From page one, everyone has been talking about the perception of rap as based on the image put out by rap (whether from artist or label exec does not matter especially with more and more rappers getting involved in management), and you keep talking about real hip hop while refusing to acknowledge that the perceptions America has of hip hop comes directly from the gangsta image put out by the majority of rappers.

Take a look at the top rap chart for the past 10 years :biglaugh: are you being serious? you must be kidding?

You won't find too much 'real' hip hop on the billboards or the charts as you call it. It's funny, you really only hear/see such a small % of hip hop, yet you base all of your knowledge of it on that.
I don't care one bit what you arbitrarily define as "real hip hop." I am talking about what really is out there, what really is being bought, and what really is being seen by everyone in the country. You can pretend your ideas of underground non-gangta hip hop is real, but you are just wrong. The majority of popular rap acts are gangsta. Get over it and accept it. What you listen to or see in some dive club is not what drives perceptions or is listened to by the majority of people. Your crap act that has a limited following does not affect perceptions no matter how "real" they may be. A multiplatinum selling artist with videos on constant rotation does. Sorry.

Trust me, if you're looking at charts to try and find rap acts, you're looking in the wrong place. It's kind of like if I only based rock music on what I hear from Kelly Clarkson.
And as you'll notice, I'm not talking about taking a look at one artist and drawing conclusions from that. Like I said, take a look at the top 10 rap albums or songs for the past ten years. The majority on those lists are gangsta. I'm drawing conclusions based on over a decade of what people were listening to the most.

You can blow it off all you want because you don't like it, but they are on those lists because they ARE what people are listening to. Maybe if you can become an influental critic someday, your ideas of what is real or not will matter. Right now, they are just your opinions and have no bearing on reality. I'm pointing at the lists based on sales and airplay, the two things that best tell you what is going to shape people's perspectives of rap. You're laughing it off as not real.

If you still cannot see that the thug or gangsta perception comes right from the words and actions of rappers, then I don't what to do. At this point, it just seems like you are being willfully ignorant.

Epsilon
11-02-2005, 04:10 PM
Yeah, I guess pink was the "in" thing from winter 2004 to well summer 2005. I'm not sure if it's still around but I don't see as much pink as I did a few months ago.

Either way, consider yourself lucky.

A pink pinstriped shirt with the collar popped has been the retarded fratboy uniform of choice around here for a while now.

ftyutin51
11-02-2005, 05:10 PM
So because people choose to wear their jeans differently than you do, and their t-shirts differently than you do, their thugs?

That's great...

This is useless...

They're not exactly thugs, but if look at the REAL thugs out selling dope and having shootouts or whatever they do that isn't very justificatory.. most of them wear those xxl t-shirts, baggy jeans, giant ice/blings/rocks (whatever you want to call them) and if I didn't know you and saw you down the street, I'd just assume you had some affliation with a gang, even though you may not have.. or one of those 'people who has never done a good deed in their life'.
**You're never going to win this debate..

417
11-03-2005, 09:14 AM
They're not exactly thugs, but if look at the REAL thugs out selling dope and having shootouts or whatever they do that isn't very justificatory.. most of them wear those xxl t-shirts, baggy jeans, giant ice/blings/rocks (whatever you want to call them) and if I didn't know you and saw you down the street, I'd just assume you had some affliation with a gang, even though you may not have.. or one of those 'people who has never done a good deed in their life'.
**You're never going to win this debate..

Well all the coke dealers I know are asian and lebanese...so you're wrong...the one's who really run everything aren't wearing xxl t-shirts and baggy jeans...they wear fine taliroed suits...

The fact that if you saw me one day and assumed I had an affiliation with a gang just because of the way I dress, is what's wrong with society, you all will say I should just suck it up and accept it, but that's also wrong.

I don't care about 'winning' this debate, I just want you all to realize that's there's more to this that meets the eye, and the next time you see a guy dressed like me down the street, you won't autimatically assume he's a gang member. It's easy for you all to say I should just accept that, but when you face discrimination, it's hard to accept...getting pulled over because you're in a nice car and to someone who doesn't know better you 'look' like a gangster, isn't fun...getting asked to pull out 13 pieces of i.d. when buying a clothing item with your credit card, isn't fun.

Is it so hard to treat everyone as individuals?

BlueAndWhite
11-03-2005, 09:18 AM
A pink pinstriped shirt with the collar popped has been the retarded fratboy uniform of choice around here for a while now.
Where is "here" ? Oregon or B.C. ?

Either way, they are sadly much behind the times, and this is coming from someone who lives in the fashion "mecca" that is Toronto.


Then again we are talking about fratboys.

417
11-03-2005, 09:27 AM
Dear ****ing god, I give up. I swear to god this just a loop of arguments. From page one, everyone has been talking about the perception of rap as based on the image put out by rap (whether from artist or label exec does not matter especially with more and more rappers getting involved in management), and you keep talking about real hip hop while refusing to acknowledge that the perceptions America has of hip hop comes directly from the gangsta image put out by the majority of rappers.


I don't care one bit what you arbitrarily define as "real hip hop." I am talking about what really is out there, what really is being bought, and what really is being seen by everyone in the country. You can pretend your ideas of underground non-gangta hip hop is real, but you are just wrong. The majority of popular rap acts are gangsta. Get over it and accept it. What you listen to or see in some dive club is not what drives perceptions or is listened to by the majority of people. Your crap act that has a limited following does not affect perceptions no matter how "real" they may be. A multiplatinum selling artist with videos on constant rotation does. Sorry.


And as you'll notice, I'm not talking about taking a look at one artist and drawing conclusions from that. Like I said, take a look at the top 10 rap albums or songs for the past ten years. The majority on those lists are gangsta. I'm drawing conclusions based on over a decade of what people were listening to the most.

You can blow it off all you want because you don't like it, but they are on those lists because they ARE what people are listening to. Maybe if you can become an influental critic someday, your ideas of what is real or not will matter. Right now, they are just your opinions and have no bearing on reality. I'm pointing at the lists based on sales and airplay, the two things that best tell you what is going to shape people's perspectives of rap. You're laughing it off as not real.

If you still cannot see that the thug or gangsta perception comes right from the words and actions of rappers, then I don't what to do. At this point, it just seems like you are being willfully ignorant.

I think I noted several times that the artist that are popular these days, namely 50 cent, don't help with the perception of gangsterism on the hip hop culture...that's why I made a conscience choice to the type of hip hop I listen to...

It's just not fair that you perceive hip hop culture as gangster just because of the actions of guys like 50 cent, yet I can't judge the rock culture on the actions of guys like Marily Manson. It's the double standard i've been referring to this whole time, how can you not see it? I can admit gangster rappers, BET, are IMO, horrible standards for the youth of today who choose the hip hop culture, no one can deny that.

However, you need to come to the realization that, not all of hip hop culture is this way...what's popular in hip hop today, can't even be labelled hip hop, it's pop music. Because you don't know where to go or what to listen to when it comes to 'real' hip hop is your own fault. There's been guys like 50 cent in hip hop for years, for some reason, it's now popular...who knows why? But none of this is new...

BTW...i'm just having a discussion with you, because we disagree fundamentally doesn't mean that I don't get what you're saying...I tend to agree completely with what you say...however you're coming from such a limited point of view when it comes to hip hop...

I'll make an analogy (I like doing that)

Since we're on a hockey board, let's compare hockey...

If you go to some place in the states and ask people about hockey, you'll get alot of people who say it's a sport for thugs, too much fighting, they don't get it, it's a sport for brutes, etc.

But real fans of hockey know, it's so much more...Unless you're truly a real hockey fan, you can't appreciate why they have fights, or why it can get so violent.

It's like listening to ESPN and hearing Stephen A. Smith talk about hockey...he'll bad mouth it all day, but really, what does he know about hockey? He's coming from such a limited point of view...all he's exposed to in hockey is replays of fights and the Bertuzzi incident.

You know what I mean?

Epsilon
11-03-2005, 10:45 AM
Where is "here" ? Oregon or B.C. ?

Either way, they are sadly much behind the times, and this is coming from someone who lives in the fashion "mecca" that is Toronto.


Then again we are talking about fratboys.

U of O. Maybe it's a fad that has passed over, I'm not sure because I haven't been out to the bars much this term. One thing I have noticed is that all the sorostitutes this year are wearing white hoodie pullovers or jackets, usually with some pink lettering on the front or something.

txomisc
11-03-2005, 09:50 PM
and the next time you see a guy dressed like me down the street, you won't autimatically assume he's a gang member. and then when we guess wrong and are mugged, stabbed, or shot and killed, screw it, bad luck?

txomisc
11-03-2005, 09:56 PM
I
It's just not fair that you perceive hip hop culture as gangster just because of the actions of guys like 50 cent, yet I can't judge the rock culture on the actions of guys like Marily Manson. I
Sorry, Marilyn Manson does not completely dominate the charts along with several others exactly like him the way guys like 50 cent does. Marilyn Manson and his ilk are truly a smaller niche market which will very rarely top any charts where as 50 and his cohorts can always be found at the top

DaMick
11-03-2005, 10:29 PM
The NBA exists as a business to make money not influence social change.
this in itself should end the silly arguments on this thread :clap:


If the players want to protest it...wear suits that bring attention to them...make a mockery of the new rules


it would work better than *****ing through the press


Most NBA teams have dress codes as is

417
11-04-2005, 08:48 AM
and then when we guess wrong and are mugged, stabbed, or shot and killed, screw it, bad luck?

So let me get this straight...You judging people before you even speak to them, somehow shields you from harm? So when you see a guy like me in the street, you already establishing that i'm a gang member, will save you from being mugged, stabbed, shot or killed? :clap: That comment alone masks what you're really think, I know what you mean by that, you're trying to sound as politically correct as possible, but you don't fool me. Not one bit.

Well you're obviously too ignorant to understand that people are individuals, so, so be it...go ahead and live the rest of your life with prejudices' and a lack of understanding of people who aren't like you. To tell you the truth, attitudes like yours don't surprise me, and it's why I say the more things change, the more they stay the same.

You've obviously been mugged, stabbed, shot and almost killed by someone who dresses like me, so you're entitled to your opinion :dunno: Maybe when you manage to ship us across that big pond for good, you can go back to your comfortable suburban lifestyle. Afterall, we all know that all the murders, drug traficking, violent acts etc in North America, are directly linked 100% to the hip hop culture and those crazy kids who dare wear their pants 1 inch below the 'acceptable' level.

txomisc
11-04-2005, 02:23 PM
So let me get this straight...You judging people before you even speak to them, somehow shields you from harm? So when you see a guy like me in the street, you already establishing that i'm a gang member, will save you from being mugged, stabbed, shot or killed? :clap: That comment alone masks what you're really think, I know what you mean by that, you're trying to sound as politically correct as possible, but you don't fool me. Not one bit.

Well you're obviously too ignorant to understand that people are individuals, so, so be it...go ahead and live the rest of your life with prejudices' and a lack of understanding of people who aren't like you. To tell you the truth, attitudes like yours don't surprise me, and it's why I say the more things change, the more they stay the same.

You've obviously been mugged, stabbed, shot and almost killed by someone who dresses like me, so you're entitled to your opinion :dunno: Maybe when you manage to ship us across that big pond for good, you can go back to your comfortable suburban lifestyle. Afterall, we all know that all the murders, drug traficking, violent acts etc in North America, are directly linked 100% to the hip hop culture and those crazy kids who dare wear their pants 1 inch below the 'acceptable' level.
And you are obviously too ignorant to realize that i noted that its not all the people. Obviously individuals are people. What you keep glossing over is that the problem is large enough that you cannot afford to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps, living in canada, you dont understand the depths of the problem facing the U.S. as far as gang violence goes. Look if someone is wearing a marines outfit, what do you think? you think oh, theres a marine. If someone is wearing janitors coveralls, you think, oh, theres a janitor. If someone is wearing thug clothes you think, oh, theres a thug. Its really quite simple.

417
11-04-2005, 02:55 PM
And you are obviously too ignorant to realize that i noted that its not all the people. Obviously individuals are people. What you keep glossing over is that the problem is large enough that you cannot afford to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps, living in canada, you dont understand the depths of the problem facing the U.S. as far as gang violence goes. Look if someone is wearing a marines outfit, what do you think? you think oh, theres a marine. If someone is wearing janitors coveralls, you think, oh, theres a janitor. If someone is wearing thug clothes you think, oh, theres a thug. Its really quite simple.

Makes no sense whatsoever... :shakehead

You're comparing uniforms to everyday clothing?

'thug' clothes as you call it, is pretty much what you wear everyday, but worn differently...

Let me guess, today, you're wearing jeans and a shirt...I am too...because we wear them differently, doesn't mean i'm wearing thug clothes, and you're not...

if i'm wearing thug clothes than, about 90% of the population does too!

Because you make the mistake of associating a certain style of clothing with gang activity, whenever you see someone who's wearing that style, you assume their in a gang. Don't you see how wrong that is?

You may see a guy one day and think he's wearing 'thug' clothes, but to me, and many others, it's normal clothing...it's how i've always dressed, from when I was a youth, everyone I know dresses that way...so it's not thug to me. Because you're only exposed to negativity associated with that type of clothing, you generalize.

It's the way you see things that's wrong, I don't know if you'll ever be able to understand that, but you're wrong on this

txomisc
11-04-2005, 04:28 PM
Makes no sense whatsoever... :shakehead

You're comparing uniforms to everyday clothing?

'thug' clothes as you call it, is pretty much what you wear everyday, but worn differently...

Let me guess, today, you're wearing jeans and a shirt...I am too...because we wear them differently, doesn't mean i'm wearing thug clothes, and you're not...

if i'm wearing thug clothes than, about 90% of the population does too!

Because you make the mistake of associating a certain style of clothing with gang activity, whenever you see someone who's wearing that style, you assume their in a gang. Don't you see how wrong that is?

You may see a guy one day and think he's wearing 'thug' clothes, but to me, and many others, it's normal clothing...it's how i've always dressed, from when I was a youth, everyone I know dresses that way...so it's not thug to me. Because you're only exposed to negativity associated with that type of clothing, you generalize.

It's the way you see things that's wrong, I don't know if you'll ever be able to understand that, but you're wrong on this
Geez you might as well come out with "Hey you wear cotton! I wear cotton! you are wearing thug clothes!"
If you can't handle the fact that dressing that way associates yourself with gang members and hardcore rappers, I dont know what to tell you. The bottom line is, though, that it does an always will. Look, once again, being in Canada, you simply probably don't truly understand what is going on in the U.S....probably much less than I understand whats going on in the hip hop scene.