GDT: Nov. 29th Buffalo @ Pittsburgh 7:30 PM EST

Buffalo Sabres @ Pittsburgh Penguins

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November 29th @ 7:38 PM EST

Location: The Igloo, Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
Internet: www.PittsburghPenguins.com
Radio: (3WS) WWSW-FM (94.5)
TV: Fox Sports Net

STANDINGS:

- Penguins: 20 points, 5th place, 15 PB, Atlantic Division.
- Sabres: 29 points, 4th place, 7 PB, Northeast Division.

TEAM LEADERS:

- Penguins: Crosby 12 goals, Zigmund Palffy 18 assists, Crosby and Palffy 28 points, Brooks Orpik 40 PIM.
- Sabres: Briere and Ales Kotalik 12 goals, Teppo Numminen 16 assists, Briere 20 points, Paul Gaustad 22 PIM.

SPECIAL TEAMS:

- Penguins: Power play: 17% (27 for 158), 16th. Penalty killing: 77.8% (123 for 158), 29th.
- Sabres: Power play: 22% (32 for 145), tied for 3rd in NHL. Penalty killing: 82% (96 for 117), tied for 15th.

SEASON SERIES:

- Sabres 1-0. Oct. 10th 3-2 in OT. At Buffalo, Hecht jammed in a loose puck with 20 seconds left in OT.
- Post game article #1 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05283/586202.stm
- Post game article #2 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05284/586326.stm

ROAD/HOME RECORDS:

- Penguins: 3-5-3 at home.
- Sabres: 6-5-0 on the road.

INJURY REPORT:

- Penguins: Mario Lemieux stomach virus probable, Sidney Crosby bruised foot probable, Andre Roy orbital bone out, Shane Endicott ankle out.
- Sabres: Daniel Briere abdominal pull doubtful, Ryan Miller broken thumb out, J.P. Dumont abdomen out, Taylor Pyatt broken wrist out.

GOALTENDERS:

- Penguins: Sebastien Caron (5-3-3, 3.95); Fleury (1-1-1, 3.40).
- Sabres: Martin Biron (7-4-1, 2.77); Mika Noronen (1-1-0, 3.06).

PROBABLE GOALTENDERS FOR TONIGHT'S GAME:

- Penguins: Marc-Andre Fleury.
- Sabres: Martin Biron.

NOTES:

- Jocelyn Thibault was placed on waivers today.
- Marc-Andre Fleury has dominated the AHL this season with a 18-0-2 record, 1.57 GAA and .939 SV%.
- Martin Biron has a poor history against Pittsburgh, going 2-9-3, 2.99 GAA and .887 SV%.
- Mario Lemieux will play tonight on a line with Ryan Malone and Matt Hussey.

http://www.post-gazette.com/images3/20051108WP_Pensshot_450.jpg
Let's hope the Pens are flying high tonight!

I'll be there to cheer on what I hope is the successful beginning of a long, continuous career as our #1 goalie for Fleury. :)

Gonna miss the game because of work...starting to wish I had called off though.

Too late now, already gave my tickets to a friend.

Blasphemy! Beat me to it. :( ;)

Blasphemy! Beat me to it. :( ;)
Your game thread record is abysmal.

You're on waivers.

Your game thread record is abysmal.

You're on waivers.

I'll never clear, another board will pick up my services.

I'll never clear, another board will pick up my services.


Only on the way back up. We'll be stuck with half the bill.

Oh, i think we'll win 3-0.

If Fleury starts.

I'll never clear, another board will pick up my services.
You'll be starting game threads here by the end of the week:
http://www.wbspenguins.com/MessageBoards/default.asp

Of course, re-entry waivers might be a different story (half the salary).

You'll be starting game threads here by the end of the week:
http://www.wbspenguins.com/MessageBoards/default.asp

Of course, re-entry waivers might be a different story (half the salary).


:biglaugh:

I'll never clear, another board will pick up my services.
As long as you come back to the pens board for trolling when the pens play your new team!!

Your game thread record is abysmal.

You're on waivers.

:p: :biglaugh:

- Marc-Andre Fleury has dominated the AHL this season with a 18-0-2 record, 1.57 GAA and .939 SV%.
I thought, Fleury was 10-0-2 ...

Good Luck tonight guys!!!

Heres to a great game!!! :handclap: :handclap: :handclap:

Pens scooooooooooooore...

Murley jams it in...wish the game was over now...

Matt Murley scores..... did the sabres pull the goalie !! :propeller

Good too see Rex back on the score board too.

Where is Jackman tonight? He's on my fantasy hockey team...

constant updates would be appreciated!

Where is Jackman tonight? He's on my fantasy hockey team...
Somehow NOT playing....defenders are Gonchar, Tarnstrom, Whitney, Orpik, Melichar and Poapst .... healthy scratch or is he injured ?

Well, the game sounds promising so far... Let's see if the guys can play full 60 minutes.

Dammit...Buffalo ties the game...

The goal could have been avoided...

defensive lapse or poor goaltending?

So the goal was Gonchar's fault...? :shakehead

Seems like our PP isn't generating much power ...

1-1, end of first.

Lemieux looks good, thankfully. Some great passing.

omg, did I see a good defensive play in the 1st period, idk who it was, but someone actually poke checked a puck away. :eek:

bad rebound, although the puck was rolling, still a bad rebound

defensive lapse or poor goaltending?

A sabre took a slapshot, looked like it knuckled off a pens stick, which caused Fleury to not controll the rebound, and since the pens don't know how to play 4-on-4 afenagonov (sp) came in un-covered and knocked in the loose change.

Other than that Fleury is playing pretty steady, as are the pens.

I think Fleury should be put on waivers and Edzo should be fired. Time to bring up Chiodo and Surovy.

I think Fleury should be put on waivers and Edzo should be fired. Time to bring up Chiodo and Surovy.
ANd sign Morozov. Waive Recchi.

Just curious, do you guys know what is up w/ Roy? I think he's actually a major upgrade over Vandensuck, but I never hear what's up w/ him.... :dunno:

Yeah, the initial shot should have been saved by Fleury, but it looked like the puck took a weird deflection and he misjudged it. After the puck popped up, our D just let the Buffalo player go straight to the net, didn't play the stick or the body. Both can be faulted.

Just curious, do you guys know what is up w/ Roy? I think he's actually a major upgrade over Vandensuck, but I never hear what's up w/ him.... :dunno:
Got punched in the face, broke his orbital bone and is still 1-2 weeks max away from returning.

Just curious, do you guys know what is up w/ Roy? I think he's actually a major upgrade over Vandensuck, but I never hear what's up w/ him.... :dunno:

He's still out. Eye injury from Colton Orr.

I thought, Fleury was 10-0-2 ...

Does that mean I'm going to be put on waivers?

Does that mean I'm going to be put on waivers?
Yes.

What a stop on Crosby in the first.

He's still out. Eye injury from Colton Orr.

Wow, can't believe it's the same injury...Guess he's not much use if he has to wear a visor...

Thanks
:rant:

Uh, where's everyone?

Stupid NHL.com radio stops working and I don't hear what happened in Sabre's 2nd goal...

Second goal was a soft one by Fleury. He's not playing his best game, but he's giving us every chance to win. The score is 2-1, now our offense has to get something together and bail out our defense. Way too much time in our own end in the 2nd period.

The two game break for Mario has been good for him. No one is playing too poorly, which is a good thing. Poapst still needs to take Defense 101 though. He's leaving people way too open in front of our own net.

This game is so boring.

Pick up the intensity and start playing playoff hockey already!

http://www.post-gazette.com/images3/20051108WP_Pensshot_450.jpg


Looks like Crosby is doing a really cool reverse kick on that hot dog.

LeClair PPG! 2-2

goal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus christ Whitney :cry:


thank god for MAF

I was just about to enter a post about how annoying it is that Edzo keeps forcing this futile Mario/Recchi/Leclair powerplay unit and then BOOM Leclair puts one in.

Yay!

Pens PP coming up. What's gotten into Leclair tonight?

absolute ******** penalty

thats 3 VERY SOFT GOALS

MAF is playing like Thibault out there.

That was soft.

Very frustrating. We all know Fleury is capable of better than this. I don't know if its nerves or what, but at least two of these goals have to be stopped, period.

Soft? Daaamnnn!

So Fleury is a failure, a bust? We should trade him for Lalime before it's too late... :sarcasm: ...yeah ok, not funny at all.

Whenever Whitney is in the box, it takes about 20 sec. for Buffalo to score :-/

Recchi is looking good out there

i dont understand something.... when the EC, sid, and palffy line is on fire... WHY, edzo WHY do u put malone on the line and ake EC off??? please just leave hom om there.. malone does jack ****... if u want a big body put leclair there, isnt that why we brought hiom here?

sooooooooo ****ing gay *** coaching

Bob Errey is letting the Penguins have it for their lazy line changes.

Buffalo announcers are friggen terrible. all they do is complain about the refs

i dont understand something.... when the EC, sid, and palffy line is on fire... WHY, edzo WHY do u put malone on the line and ake EC off??? please just leave hom om there.. malone does jack ****... if u want a big body put leclair there, isnt that why we brought hiom here?

Leaf Lander changed his handle and became a pens fan.

this is it boyz.... when need to capitalize here on the PP

Whenever Whitney is in the box, it takes about 20 sec. for Buffalo to score :-/
Regardless, if he doesn't take that penalty the puck would have probably been in the back of the net due to the wide open player in front of our net. So they got the goal either way.

this is it boyz.... when need to capitalize here on the PP

Ok, hit me with the pass when you see me in the left face off circle.

Regardless, if he doesn't take that penalty the puck would have probably been in the back of the net due to the wide open player in front of our net. So they got the goal either way.

So Whitney has been taking so called "smart penalties" instead of stupid ones? Well that's good to know.

Just tuned in. 3-2. Not that bad. Could be worse.

Nice to hear Lange's voice again.

BS call. He had the friggin puck and was flattened. :shakehead

Holding? What did he hold him with, his stick?

steve poabst.. you blow

Thanks Poapst. :cry:

This team is a mess

Who was the Pens player that smacked his stick in the ice after it ended?

Disappointing performance from MAF tonight.

Fewer problems tonight than there were vs. Florida and Tampa at least. You got to put Fleury back in there against the Rangers and put everything that happened tonight behind you. Very winnable game tonight.

Disappointing performance from MAF tonight.


Pretty much. Pens gave up less than 30 shots too.

Uhm.. Yeah.. Fleury is ready for the NHL and stuff.

Leclair

ugh. this team is never going anywhere with this coaching staff. I've never seen a team look so dead night in and night out.

Isn't it interesting how when the opponents are on the powerplay they look like they're trying to score, but when the Pens are on the powerplay it looks like we're jsut trying to keep the puck in our zone?

- MAF let up 2 soft goals
- Pens hit the post twice early in the game
- those calls on the Pens in the 3rd period were REALLY weak.

I'm not one to ever complain about the Refs, but come on.

Who was the Pens player that smacked his stick in the ice after it ended?

JL

LeClair was the best Penguin on the ice tonight... never thought I would say that.

Guy is worth every penny and getting stronger each game.

He is even skating well.

Fleury will bounce back. Game sucked, but i'm sure jacob and till the end of time are happy with the results. :shakehead Nevermind, jacob already came to gloat about the results.

Isn't it interesting how when the opponents are on the powerplay they look like they're trying to score, but when the Pens are on the powerplay it looks like we're jsut trying to keep the puck in our zone?

Talk to Joe Mullen, he is the PP coach. :shakehead

steve poabst.. you blow
That wasn't Poabst's fault, horrible call by the ref. Poabst just pushed a guy over WHO HAD THE PUCK with his hand so the dumb*** refs called a penalty.
Sad to say but Fleury lost this game.

Uhm.. Yeah.. Fleury is ready for the NHL and stuff.
Uhm.. Yeah.. one game? He's had two others that were the complete opposite. He had two other really nice saves tonight that could have easily been goals as well. Plus, we had a lot of bad breaks on offense and a weak powerplay.

Well I still have faith in Fleury... but how much longer will Pens fans have faith in the Pens? Attendance 15,118 tonight, and it's only gonna get lower if this crap continues. :teach:

EDIT - I'm not saying 15,000 is a bad number, but oh well...

Buffalo announcers are friggen terrible. all they do is complain about the refs
What game were you listening too?



Rick Jeanerette > You.

Isn't it interesting how when the opponents are on the powerplay they look like they're trying to score, but when the Pens are on the powerplay it looks like we're jsut trying to keep the puck in our zone?

Pens PP=Stand around and try to set up a one timer, no movement.
Pens PK=See above minus the one timer, no movement.

MAF lets in 1 soft and 1 very soft goal. Send him back to WBS or give him one more chance. If that doesn't work, give him another chance. If that doesn't work, give him another chance. Then send him back to WBS.

Let's see how MAF responds when me must stand on his head for a 48 shot night. :sarcasm:

MAF + Malkin for Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque(sp?) and Scotty Bowman?

Uhm.. Yeah.. one game? He's had two others that were the complete opposite. He had two other really nice saves tonight that could have easily been goals as well. Plus, we had a lot of bad breaks on offense and a weak powerplay.

Yeah, he did have two strong games.
He was also chased in the first Philly game.

Plus, the "bad" brakes and a weak powerplay are pretty much a consistent thing on this team.

Having Thibault take the fall was (is) so wrong on so many levels.

Fewer problems tonight than there were vs. Florida and Tampa at least. You got to put Fleury back in there against the Rangers and put everything that happened tonight behind you. Very winnable game tonight.

I think so.

Man....Fleury gave up 3 goals and a SV% of .900 in a horrible game...he sucks. (Sarcasm)

Uhm.. Yeah.. one game? He's had two others that were the complete opposite. He had two other really nice saves tonight that could have easily been goals as well. Plus, we had a lot of bad breaks on offense and a weak powerplay.
What's scary is that this was actually a pretty strong defensive effort from the Pens tonight. What would have happened if the Pens would have given up their usual 45 shots? Fleury might have given up 6, maybe 7 goals, I'm thinking.

Fleury is an insanely talented netminder and there's no question he'll bounce back. But the thing is, it could be next game or it could be two weeks from today. We don't know. He should be working on that consistency at the AHL level.

one of the better played games by the pens! somebody besides sid, ec,and palffy put up some points the goalie gave up some soft goals [i think i heard that somewhere before.]:) it doesn't seem to matter whos in the net.

Our PP needs to be better obviously. Why was the Mario/Recchi PP combo getting so much PP, when the Ziggy/Sidney combo looked way more dangerous?

ugh. this team is never going anywhere with this coaching staff. I've never seen a team look so dead night in and night out.

try watching the Bruins - god they suck with talent

LeClair was the best Penguin on the ice tonight... never thought I would say that.

Guy is worth every penny and getting stronger each game.

He is even skating well.
I was very impressed with Johnny Vermont. He actually looked pretty quick out there. Lemieux also looked better, while Crosby was pretty quiet. Whitney had some nice rushes.
The pp was bad once again. They need to move around on the PP like the sabres were early on. Well, I'm getting ahead of myself. First they need to attack with speed as a five man unit, gain the zone, then start moving the puck and themselves around thus forcing the other team out of their box. The Pens could have easily won this game.
By the way, I have to continue to praise my boy Talbot as he works his *** off without fail. He's not the fastest or biggest guy but you'd never know it the way he keeps his feet moving. I LOVE this guy.

Fleury is an insanely talented netminder and there's no question he'll bounce back. But the thing is, it could be next game or it could be two weeks from today. We don't know. He should be working on that consistency at the AHL level.
He does need to develop consistancy. He's had it all season in Wilkes Barre and he's also had it the majority of the time up here. That's why you have to give him a few games in a row in the NHL to see if he's ready, not just a few off and on games. Give him games against the Rangers and Calgary and we'll have a much better understanding of where he's at.

Plus, he's still well below the 25 game figure for his bonuses and the team has been struggling, so there's not too much risk in giving him this shot.

Talk to Joe Mullen, he is the PP coach. :shakehead

I think the term "coach" should be used in conjunction very loosely with our terrible trio behind the bench.

try watching the Bruins - god they suck with talent

What the heck? They lost the game against NJ? It's not looking too good for them either. :help:

Uh, sorry about off-topicing... Umm, today's results suck.

MAF + Malkin for Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque(sp?) and Scotty Bowman?
our future for two over the hill de-men with bad knees and a coach that 66 and co. have all ready ran out of town once.........hmmmmm..........cp would make that deal! :)

Man....Fleury gave up 3 goals and a SV% of .900 in a horrible game...he sucks. (Sarcasm)
Not sure where you went to school.. But his SA% tonight was .889.

What's scary is that this was actually a pretty strong defensive effort from the Pens tonight. What would have happened if the Pens would have given up their usual 45 shots? Fleury might have given up 6, maybe 7 goals, I'm thinking.

Fleury is an insanely talented netminder and there's no question he'll bounce back. But the thing is, it could be next game or it could be two weeks from today. We don't know. He should be working on that consistency at the AHL level.
I still dont get what you expect him to learn in the AHL seriously. What more does he need to prove? Consistenct? Have you seen his stats? Playoffs? Why dont we send Sidney down to the AHL too so he can get some playoff experience. Fleury needs to develop into a better goalie and he will do that in the NHL. Fleury also needs to learn how to bounce back from bad goals like we have seen today. How many bad goals does he allow in AHL...not much. He's too good for that league and he is ready for this one. Anything he can learn in the AHL he can learn in the NHL...If he can play decently now with horrible D then he can play very well when our D gets better. I for one am very happy he is here and pray somone gets T-BO and MAF can start here all year. Sure in WBS he'll play better...but whats that really mean? He is an NHL caliber goalie playing behind the best team in the AHL...no **** he'll do well. Is that supposed to raise his confidence? Only way to raise his confidence it so play him here. Is it supposed to make him better? I dont understand what you want him to learn in the AHL that he cant possibly learn here...especially facing the best players in the world.

Not sure where you went to school.. But his SA% tonight was .889.
I estimated i knew they had roughly near 30 shots.

He should be working on that consistency at the AHL level.

I agree with pensFan27 on this. I don't think there is much left in the AHL for Fleury. It's like playing a video game on easy, and just staying there. It becomes so non-competitive that your skills stagnate. If you don't move up to the next level, you'll never get any better.

I still dont get what you expect him to learn in the AHL seriously. What more does he need to prove? Consistenct? Have you seen his stats? Playoffs? Why dont we send Sidney down to the AHL too so he can get some playoff experience. Fleury needs to develop into a better goalie and he will do that in the NHL. Fleury also needs to learn how to bounce back from bad goals like we have seen today. How many bad goals does he allow in AHL...not much. He's too good for that league and he is ready for this one. Anything he can learn in the AHL he can learn in the NHL...If he can play decently now with horrible D then he can play very well when our D gets better. I for one am very happy he is here and pray somone gets T-BO and MAF can start here all year. Sure in WBS he'll play better...but whats that really mean? He is an NHL caliber goalie playing behind the best team in the AHL...no **** he'll do well. Is that supposed to raise his confidence? Only way to raise his confidence it so play him here. Is it supposed to make him better? I dont understand what you want him to learn in the AHL that he cant possibly learn here...especially facing the best players in the world.
He'll work on consistency in the AHL. What he's done in the first two months of the season isn't anything he hasn't done before. We all know he can dominate, at times. He's just never been able to do it over the course of a full season, or even for a large majority of any season. All goalies go through slumps, but Fleury's seasons are absolute roller coaster rides.

How will he work on consistency? The only real way to do so is to gain experience. Learn the fundamentals for those nights when your head or your body just isn't in the game. Learn how to win games with your intelligence and your knowledge of the position, not just on your pure skill and reflexes. It's not about "learning" consistency as much as it is waiting for Fleury's consistency. Fleury can have an off night in the AHL and will still be able to battle and keep his team in it. In the NHL, an off night is going to result in 5, maybe 6 goals against and a sure-fire notch in the loss column. That's not good for his head and for his confidence.

And the best way to develop a goaltender is slowly, because it's really all about confidence.

I agree with pensFan27 on this. I don't think there is much left in the AHL for Fleury. It's like playing a video game on easy, and just staying there. It becomes so non-competitive that your skills stagnate. If you don't move up to the next level, you'll never get any better.
But it was only 6 months ago that he was beaten out of the starting job in the AHL playoffs. I find it hard to believe that a guy goes from BOMBING in the AHL playoffs to being so much better than the competition that he's going to stagnate at that level. That just doesn't happen.

If he's too good for the AHL, let's see Fleury prove it. Not after 12 games. Not even after 25. Let's see him prove that the AHL is beneath him with 55-60 starts, and with some AHL playoff time. You say he's going to dominate, right? Well, let's see it. And then he'll be ready for the NHL.

I mentioned this after the last Pens game, and I feel like asking again.

Why does Crosby NOT get more power play time? Last game I was told by some of you that he missed some of the game due to injury, and I thought that sounded about right. But tonight the Pens had almost 16 minutes in PP time and Crosby only played about 6 1/2 minutes of it. From everything I have heard and read he has been one of your best players, if not your best player, all year long.

What gives? Any thoughts? I am just curious. It seems the Pens are struggling quite a bit and it makes sense to me to play your best players in the situations where they can best help the team. Crosby should be getting much more PP time if you ask me.

Thanks all.

How will he work on consistency? The only real way to do so is to gain experience. Learn the fundamentals for those nights when your head or your body just isn't in the game. Learn how to win games with your intelligence and your knowledge of the position, not just on your pure skill and reflexes. It's not about "learning" consistency as much as it is waiting for Fleury's consistency. Fleury can have an off night in the AHL and will still be able to battle and keep his team in it.
And who is stopping him from doing all that in the NHL? I think he had an off night tonight didnt he? I still think he battled...didnt he? I still think he did everything to keep his team in it...didnt he? So i dont get your point there.

And the best way to develop a goaltender is slowly, because it's really all about confidence.
Confidence? You dont think he gains more confidence knowing he can stop the best players in the world rather then knowing he cant play in the NHL even though he is ready simply because of money. I gaurantee you he got more confidence in himself during the Penguins game against Philly then he has all year in the AHL.

But it was only 6 months ago that he was beaten out of the starting job in the AHL playoffs. I find it hard to believe that a guy goes from BOMBING in the AHL playoffs to being so much better than the competition that he's going to stagnate at that level. That just doesn't happen.

If he's too good for the AHL, let's see Fleury prove it. Not after 12 games. Not even after 25. Let's see him prove that the AHL is beneath him with 55-60 starts, and with some AHL playoff time. You say he's going to dominate, right? Well, let's see it. And then he'll be ready for the NHL.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not gung-ho about the Fleury call up like others. And you do mke a valid point, I'm just worried that if he stays down there, he isn't going to ge much better. But on the other hand, having him behind that defense isn't going to the best thing either. It seems to be a bit of a catch 22.

If he's too good for the AHL, let's see Fleury prove it. Not after 12 games. Not even after 25. Let's see him prove that the AHL is beneath him with 55-60 starts, and with some AHL playoff time. You say he's going to dominate, right? Well, let's see it. And then he'll be ready for the NHL.
Time is a valuable thing. He has proven it. Thats exactly the reason he is here right now. Why waste a whole season just to "prove" that he is good. We all know he is...and the stats show it. Only reason i would consider letting him to back is if we were completely out of it and they needed him for playoffs.

Why does Crosby NOT get more power play time?



because our coach is a moron.

because our coach is a moron.

Sadly, that is the truth.
:teach:

And who is stopping him from doing all that in the NHL? I think he had an off night tonight didnt he? I still think he battled...didnt he? I still think he did everything to keep his team in it...didnt he? So i dont get your point there.
Tonight was an apparition. How often do the Pens keep the opposition under 40 shots? Let alone under 30. Fleury had an off night, for sure. But if he has an off night again behind this Penguins team he might not give up 3, he might give up 5 or 6 real early on. And then we're back to where we were with Thibault and Caron.

So far Fleury has played 5 games in the NHL. 2 were very good (Buffalo #1, Philly #2) one was average (TB) and two were poor (tonight, Philly #1). That's 60% being satisfactory-or-better. To me, that's not a good enough ratio to keep him up in the NHL. And for sure it's not good enough to be paying him 3 million dollars.


Let me ask you something right now so we can maybe look back on it, but what do you think Fleury will have to do to get sent back to the AHL?

So far Fleury has played 5 games in the NHL. 2 were very good (Buffalo #1, Philly #2) one was average (TB) and two were poor (tonight, Philly #1). That's 60% being satisfactory-or-better. To me, that's not a good enough ratio to keep him up in the NHL. And for sure it's not good enough to be paying him 3 million dollars.

Exactly. Its been 5 games. If you want him to get 60-70 in the AHL to prove himself, wouldnt it be fair to give him more then 5 to prove himself in the NHL too?


Let me ask you something right now so we can maybe look back on it, but what do you think Fleury will have to do to get sent back to the AHL?
Well...if TBO is picked up by another team, i think Fleury sticks here for good. Who will we start if he is sent down? Choido and Caron? If Fleury starts completely sucking they might give Caron some starts to let Fleury get a break, but i dont see either happening.

That wasn't Poabst's fault, horrible call by the ref. Poabst just pushed a guy over WHO HAD THE PUCK with his hand so the dumb*** refs called a penalty.
Sad to say but Fleury lost this game.
He sucks. He missed the net like.. 3 times.

Back from the game . . . the gloves were nice. Wake me when we fire Edzo and this team actually has a chance to win a game. Did I mention that the free gloves were nice?

Exactly. Its been 5 games. If you want him to get 60-70 in the AHL to prove himself, wouldnt it be fair to give him more then 5 to prove himself in the NHL too?
Yeah.. Just not this year.

I'm of the opinion that goaltenders, no matter what pedigree, should have one FULL AHL season of superior play before being promoted full time to the NHL. Most of today's elite starts had two or three years of tearing through the AHL before they were eased into backup roles. Where as the Pens are taking Fleury's 12 games of dominance and thrusting him into a starting gig. Granted, Fleury has some special qualities that guys like Cloutier, Aebischer, Nabokov, etc. didn't show at the same age.

Bobble heads . . . . we need bobble heads. In Pittsburgh we will watch anything that mildly passes for a sport if they give us lots of bobble heads.

our future for two over the hill de-men with bad knees and a coach that 66 and co. have all ready ran out of town once.........hmmmmm..........cp would make that deal! :)

I know it's stupid, but I've always thought the Pens screwed MAF from day one. I know, I know, it's about money. BUT, to be sent down just for money, has gotta sting. And more than once.

If nothing else, it's a great marketing ploy, MAF puts people in the seats (Not sure if that actually true).

MAF knows he let his team down tonight. He probably wasn't used to having what appeared to be a solid D in front of him for a change.

As the season wears on, it's getting more difficult to figure out what is a penalty and what is not. :dunno:

Friggin Donuts! :biglaugh:

I guess I'm one of the very few that think he didn't play all that bad tonight?
You can't score when high priced talent stand around like EFFFFIN statues.
What was it, 8 or 9 powerplays 1 goal?
Please Edzo, show some freakin nuts and keep Lemieux off the power play and give Christensen a shot for the love of christ.
I mean the dude has shown he has a natural chemistry with Crosby. So if they can put the puck in the net consistantly 5 on 5, immagine how much more he'd bring to the table over Mario.
Also, can somebody go and kick Gonchar right in the groin?
Maybe that would wake him up and make him move his feet just a little.
I say you gotta put Jackman on the power play over Gonchar.
At least Jackman hustles when we have the puck.
By the way did anyone ever think of toying with the idea of making Jackman a forward or at least expiramenting with it?
The guy obviously has huge amounts of offensive talent and is subpar in his own zone.
Also can somebody win a damn faceoff?
Just a couple of random thoughts.

Despite another loss, this was a wonderful game to attend tonight. Both teams played rather well and the score was always within one goal. The only negative is that the guy right behind me shouted "Let's Go Pens!" at the very top of his lungs, all game long.

I think Fleury played rather well, with the exception of the second goal. As he's shown both tonight and in earlier games this year, he's definately ready to begin a long career in the NHL as a starter.

Also, can somebody go and kick Gonchar right in the groin?
Maybe that would wake him up and make him move his feet just a little.
I say you gotta put Jackman on the power play over Gonchar.
At least Jackman hustles when we have the puck.


I strongly disagree. Tonight, Gonchar was a defensive machine, believe it or not. He broke up about a half dozen passes that might have otherwise been easy one-timer goals. And, he wasn't half bad on the powerplay tonight either.

Bobble heads . . . . we need bobble heads. In Pittsburgh we will watch anything that mildly passes for a sport if they give us lots of bobble heads.

We've got lots of bobbleheads. One is the coach.

By the way did anyone ever think of toying with the idea of making Jackman a forward or at least expiramenting with it?
The guy obviously has huge amounts of offensive talent and is subpar in his own zone.

This is a neat point. I wonder if anyone ever thought of it.

I guess I'm one of the very few that think he didn't play all that bad tonight?
You can't score when high priced talent stand around like EFFFFIN statues.
What was it, 8 or 9 powerplays 1 goal?
Please Edzo, show some freakin nuts and keep Lemieux off the power play and give Christensen a shot for the love of christ.
I mean the dude has shown he has a natural chemistry with Crosby. So if they can put the puck in the net consistantly 5 on 5, immagine how much more he'd bring to the table over Mario.
Also, can somebody go and kick Gonchar right in the groin?
Maybe that would wake him up and make him move his feet just a little.
I say you gotta put Jackman on the power play over Gonchar.
At least Jackman hustles when we have the puck.
By the way did anyone ever think of toying with the idea of making Jackman a forward or at least expiramenting with it?
The guy obviously has huge amounts of offensive talent and is subpar in his own zone.
Also can somebody win a damn faceoff?
Just a couple of random thoughts.

Imo, there is no question about it. Chalk this loss up the PP unit. They were absolutely horrible.

Fleury may get the bulk of conversation because he is a new factor to this bad equation, and did let in soft goals. But still the team defense was fairly good tonight, and we only gave up 3 goals. Which for this team is tremendous.

With the amount of power play chances we had, and our talent, you have to convert better than that.

I strongly disagree. Tonight, Gonchar was a defensive machine, believe it or not. He broke up about a half dozen passes that might have otherwise been easy one-timer goals. And, he wasn't half bad on the powerplay tonight either.

Defensive machine???

Let's not get carried away. The first 3 or 4 scoring chances Buffalo had were a direct result of Gonchar's "defense". Not horrible gaffes, but misplays, lack of effort, and poor defensive coverage, nonetheless.

Yeah, Gonchar actually did make several nice defense plays. And as poor as he has been on defensive, those plays are going to standout big time.

The frustrating thing is that is totally capable of playing decent defensive hockey. Look at the Washington game, against his old team, he played defensively pretty well. I saw him stand guys up at the blue line, play tight defensive coverage, and hustle. So he can do it when motivated.

That is the problem, he is hardly ever motivated to put an a decent effort. imo

I don't know if this came over the TV or not, but they actually announced that Thibault had been put on waivers tonight before the game. I don't ever remember this being done before, and I'm not quite sure what to think about it.

The team continued to play their patented no one care system, although Talbot seems completely unwilling to commit to the system, and Murley may be following in his PK partner's footsteps. Also, Leclair might be leading a little bit of a rebellion to give a crap.

The team continued to play their patented no one care system, although Talbot seems completely unwilling to commit to the system, and Murley may be following in his PK partner's footsteps. Also, Leclair might be leading a little bit of a rebellion to give a crap.

Its pretty clear this is a deeply troubled team. As Linus said in another thread, even if Edzo was fired, would any decent coach even want to walk into this situation?

I don't appreciate Bob saying the players should dive in the final minutes to get a penalty. I mean, I want them to win, but not like that.

Its pretty clear this is a deeply troubled team. As Linus said in another thread, even if Edzo was fired, would any decent coach even want to walk into this situation?

I'd say so... Some proven college/junior/AHL coach looking for his shot in the show, a confident ex NHL coach who thinks he can walk in and take control. Anybody with something to prove would take the job, and he has talent to start with. I definately could see that happening, however Patrick will and should take control for the rest of the season. Go through the hiring process during the off season.

Defensive machine???

That is the problem, he is hardly ever motivated to put an a decent effort. imo

Reward him with vodka. That'll do the trick. He's Russian.

Reward him with vodka. That'll do the trick. He's Russian.

classy post

classy post

What's wrong with that post?
Russians like vodka.
Everyone is so god damn sensitive nowadays.

At least he's not burning down the Mellon Arena and then hiding out in Fayette County.

I don't appreciate Bob saying the players should dive in the final minutes to get a penalty. I mean, I want them to win, but not like that.

Why? :confused:

What's wrong with that post?
Russians like vodka.
Everyone is so god damn sensitive nowadays.

Nice of Sean Avery to join us here w/ all his stereotypes.

Another game, another pathetic performance for all except a select few.

Great to see Johnny LeClair back at full strength, but to get him going we lose Palffy's streak.

Ugh.

Stuff like the players completely dogging it to the bench on the power play is why we're losing games, it's the small stuff we're doing wrong that adds up.

Errey hit the nail on the head when he said if it was a guy like Talbot getting tapped on the ice he'd be flying out there. Instead we have guys taking 10 seconds to get off the ice and 10 seconds to get on. We're spending at least 20 seconds on damn line-changes on power plays.

And anyone wonders why our PP isn't working? We're in the offensive zone perhaps 20 seconds the entire thing.

We've almost all been calling for Edzo's head for a long time so I'm not going to beat the already mutilated horse, but I fully believe Edzo is on his last straw with the organization right now.

Patrick is making moves after almost every game right now. Early in the season it was understandable to be off to a flat start. A ton of new faces and a ton of guys who didn't play a single game last year doesn't help matters, but the fact we have seen little to no improvement from October 5 can't bode well.

Patrick is doing all he can with his restraints, I don't agree with everything he's done for sure, but Fleury being in Pittsburgh is his real "that's it, you gotta bleeping win" move.

Fleury is not here to add a spark to the line-up, he is not here for the fans, he is here for the sole purpose of winning us games.

If this team's play isn't improved soon Edzo has to be on the unemployment line by Christmas at latest.

The fact we need to keep relying on call-ups to bring motivation is pathetic.

We should bench half the team for a week...use our WBS players. Maybe that will send them a message. It couldnt get any more could it?

If this team's play isn't improved soon Edzo has to be on the unemployment line by Christmas at latest.

The fact we need to keep relying on call-ups to bring motivation is pathetic.

Believe me when I tell ya, It's gonna be a helluva lot later than Christmas.
The earliest I would guess would be before next season starts.
And the relying on callups thing is a good point.

Nice of Sean Avery to join us here w/ all his stereotypes.

I have Russian friends, they will be the first to admit that most Russians love vodka. The stereotype exists because it is true. Get a life.

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20052006/ES020368.HTM

So let's see with numbers whats wrong.

Christensen 13:56 min
Why? What else should the guy do to deserve more ice time. He's more productive then anyone on offence except for Crosby and maybe Palffy. Basically this is all PP time. Why can't he go on instead of Malone?

Why does Mario (9:08) get more PP time then Crosby (6:52) and Palffy (6:43)???????????????????????????????????????????? ??

Why does Talbot only get 10 minutes of ice time, when he clearly does better then many... When a player plays ONLY on the PK, how can show what he's made of. This guy is a workhorse, he should be playing at least 17 minutes a game.

Also. Where was Jackman today? You're telling me his play has been worse then Poapst?

We need 2 things to happen in the next week:
1- New coaching staff (Therrien would be awesome for the job. He's GOD compared to Edzo)
2- 1 trade to improve our D. We cannot afford to have Poapst/Odelein/Melichar in the lineup anymore...

I'm one of those who does miss Morozov. I know there's alot of haters of Morozov here, but this guy played with heart for this team and WAS productive on a HORRIBLE team the past couple of seasons and I can't say that Palffy, LeClair, Recchi are playing with heart because if they did, they would be producing much more.

I love the Pens... I'm not quitting on them, but they're quitting on their own fans right now. I know CP is doing some very very very small moves, but we need big changes. If he wants the Pens to miss the playoffs, he's doing a good job of being patient. If he's trying to loose more and more fans, he's doing a great job (we've seen it here with a couple of posters and I'm sure there's alot of ppl in Pittsburgh that feel this way). I ain't quitting from the team. But our situation is disgusting.

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20052006/ES020368.HTM

.


2- 1 trade to improve our D. We cannot afford to have Poapst/Odelein/Melichar in the lineup anymore...

.

What glaring mistakes has Melichar made this season?
I think the guy has been our most solid dman the last 4 or 5 games.
Honestly give me some examples of what Melichar does or doesn't do on the ice that irks you sobad that your constantly trashing him.
Just out of curiousity.

Melichar has made a bonehead play here and there, but he's nothing more than a 5-6 defenseman and that's the way he's played this season.

For the most part he's been fine.

Melichar is far from the problem.

Melichar has made a bonehead play here and there, but he's nothing more than a 5-6 defenseman and that's the way he's played this season.

For the most part he's been fine.

Melichar is far from the problem.

He mentioned Odelien also,.
I personally think he's been our "most" solid stay at home guy.
I'm actually suprised he's been sitting out unless he's injured and I didn't know about it.

Odelein has steadily fallen off.

He was pretty damn good at the start before tapering off into what he is.

A 5-6 defenseman.

As long as these guys log 5-6 icetime and play like 5-6 defenseman I can stand them.

It's when guys like Poapst, who are 7 defenseman, are playing 3-4 icetime that kills me.

It's when guys like Poapst, who are 7 defenseman, are playing 3-4 icetime that kills me.

Which reminds me, Poapst had a solid game defensively tonight as well. Probably nothing that will last, just cutting in for a brief moment. Carry on. ;)

On a brighter note of tonight's game, I noticed that Recchi and LeClair playing on the same line was quite productive, each scoring two points apiece. What do you think of putting Lemieux on that line and make that line 2? I know that would make lines 1 and 2 very top-heavy offensively and leaving 3 and 4 kind of bare, but we should try anything at this point. I know LeClair and Lindros worked great together in the "legion of doom" of Philly in the past and perhaps the same would happen with him and Lemieux, and I think the three greatest veterans on our team would be dynamite together.

I just think Lemieux is kind of useless being the only player of great experience on his line in his later days. He doesn't fight for his own pucks and seems so lost amongst the "mere mortals" so to speak.

Those three play together on the power play quite often. They have played together as a five-on-five line at various points in the season. In my opinion, it makes for a slow line that isn't very defensively sound. Lemieux has lost almost all of his speed, and he is frequently too deep in the offensive zone to get back on defense. LeClair can be a force in the offesnive zone, but is not as good in the defensive zone or in transition again because of his lack of speed. Recchi has played well with just about everyone he has played with and is one of the most well-rounded forwards on the team.

I would say that your statement about Lemieux being the only player with experience would be more applicable to LeClair. When LeClair has played on the "third" line with Koltsov, Pirjeta, and Murley, they have yet to produce any offense.

Lemieux's style of play at his age demands that he plays with players that have the speed and motivation to play well in their own zone, hustle after loose pucks, etc.

And to generally comment about this game: The Crosby/Christensen/Palffy line needs to play more on the PP, and Talbot and Murley need more even strength time. Why is Ryan Vandenbussche on this roster let alone dressing? Buffalo was trying to do their best Pittsburgh Penguins impression and hand the game over. The Pens had to capitalize on the PP. You can't score two goals and expect to win.

And on the Fleury situation: I'm all for it, for no other reason that he's a lot easier to cover when he's 20 minutes away, not 5 hours.

Interesting post... some good here... some I disagree with.

Christensen 13:56 min
Why?

Because Edzo is a moron.


Why does Mario (9:08) get more PP time then Crosby (6:52) and Palffy (6:43)???????????????????????????????????????????? ??

Because Lemieux doesn't realize it's time to retire. Do you honestly think Edzo decides when Lemieux takes a shift?


Where was Jackman today? You're telling me his play has been worse then Poapst?

Jackman is a clown. They both suck, what can you do?

I can't say that Palffy, LeClair, Recchi are playing with heart because if they did, they would be producing much more.

Ahh, here I disagree with you. I think Palffy has sparkled on a line with Christensen and Crosby. He's playing descent on the penalty kill. He backchecks, believe it or not. Recchi and LeClair are both skating hard and doing the best they can.

If you want to point fingers, I think you should start with the goaltender and work your way outward.

But our situation is disgusting.

Well yeah.

And anyone wonders why our PP isn't working?

Errey mentioned that Buffalo spends like 40 minutes a practice on just their power play.

Mario Lemieux doesn't even bother to show up for practice.

The Penguins would be better off with young, hungry, eager players like Talbot, Christensen, etc than overpriced, underachieving aged veterans like Lemieux and Gonchar.

Everyone wants to blame Edzo. Why is Lemieux so immune from criticism?

I have Russian friends, they will be the first to admit that most Russians love vodka. The stereotype exists because it is true. Get a life.

You were merely being insulted.

Some people are so sensitive.
:shakehead

I don't appreciate Bob saying the players should dive in the final minutes to get a penalty. I mean, I want them to win, but not like that.

Agreed. Errey made me cringe when he said to dive "since the refs are paying attention."

I'd rather watch the Pens lose than have them take a dive to win a game they should have won in the first place (by playing 60 minutes of solid hockey).

Everyone wants to blame Edzo. Why is Lemieux so immune from criticism?

Because alot of Pens fans only see what they want to see and would rather pick someone out like Melchar who has been playing hard to dump on rather than a vastly over the hill, non hustling, overpaid Lemieux that should be retired.
So most of the braindeads around here give Mario a free pass no matter what when Lemieux isprobably one of the biggest problems on the ice.

You were merely being insulted.

Some people are so sensitive.
:shakehead

No. Actually, I was being disputed.