Blame Cloutier

Blane Youngblood
10-13-2003, 05:47 PM
Hey, I am one of the biggest Cloutier supporters around, I even have him in my hockey pool, but todays loss against CBJ was completely his fault. We had the game in hand and he goes and messes it up by first taking a dumb penalty and then letting in a soft goal on the powerplay. After that the momentum was completely shifted and we went on to loose.

Am I being to hard on Clouts or am I right in saying that this loss can be hung on him?

Reign Nateo
10-13-2003, 05:51 PM
No. This game was lost because of goaltending.

Their goalie won the game for them, our goalie lost it for us.

Nalyd Psycho
10-13-2003, 05:52 PM
The problem was, Cassels knows his buttons. And tonight was a clear cut example of how he is when he lets his emotions go over the breaking point. For so much of the game he was rock solid. But he had serious lapses. And that is unacceptable. He NEEDS to keep his emotions in check. There should be no hesitation to get Hedburg back in...

cyrisweb
10-13-2003, 05:53 PM
I don't think so, Tom and shorty seem to agree with you as well.

If he refuses to control his anger then he's in trouble.

LaVal
10-13-2003, 05:54 PM
this forum is starting to look like the canucks.com forum :dunno:

Burke's Evil Spirit
10-13-2003, 05:56 PM
There's blame to be shared...Cloutier deserves some of it, the first goal was rather soft, but our forwards left a lot to be desired. There are about 10 separate plays that would have resulted in goals had our big guns shown a little finish.

incawg
10-13-2003, 05:58 PM
this forum is starting to look like the canucks.com forum :dunno:

DAMMIT BURKE, TRADE SOPEL FOR GABORIK ! ! !



(just trying to help the cause ;) )

Reign Nateo
10-13-2003, 05:59 PM
[QUOTE=Burke's Evil Spirit]Cloutier deserves some of it, the first goal was rather soft,QUOTE]

Let's be honest, Martin Brochu makes that save.

Peter Griffin
10-13-2003, 05:59 PM
this forum is starting to look like the canucks.com forum :dunno:

How so?


I do agree that Cloutier should shoulder some of the blame on this one. He let his emotions get the better of him and took a stupid penalty. He then let in a soft goal. He played well for the majority of the game, but that penalty and ensuing goal looked like it took some of the wind out of the Canucks' sails.

That said, this game wasn't lost by Cloutier. The 2nd and 3rd goals were of no fault to Cloutier.

SopelFan*
10-13-2003, 06:03 PM
DAMMIT BURKE, TRADE SOPEL FOR GABORIK ! ! !



(just trying to help the cause ;) )
Somehow they will find away to blame Sopel of course, (on canucks.com)... one of the best games he has played in a while.

Nalyd Psycho
10-13-2003, 06:03 PM
this forum is starting to look like the canucks.com forum :dunno:

It's simple, Cloutier should be a better goalie. But the fact of the matter is, it's no longer when he gets his mental game sorted out, it's IF he gets his mental game sorted out.

SopelFan*
10-13-2003, 06:04 PM
How so?


I do agree that Cloutier should shoulder some of the blame on this one. He let his emotions get the better of him and took a stupid penalty. He then let in a soft goal. He played well for the majority of the game, but that penalty and ensuing goal looked like it took some of the wind out of the Canucks' sails.

That said, this game wasn't lost by Cloutier. The 2nd and 3rd goals were of no fault to Cloutier.
Slegr can take the blame for the winner. He let Marchant blow by and then couldn't clear Nash from the crease. The winger also didn't get to Richardson in time.

SopelFan*
10-13-2003, 06:05 PM
It's simple, Cloutier should be a better goalie. But the fact of the matter is, it's no longer when he gets his mental game sorted out, it's IF he gets his mental game sorted out.
Exactly. He either gets down on himself or he gets angry.

Nalyd Psycho
10-13-2003, 06:06 PM
Somehow they will find away to blame Sopel of course, (on canucks.com)... one of the best games he has played in a while.
He wasn't anything special tonight, but I agree, he does not deserve the blame. He was definatly one of the Canucks 4 best d-men. Better than Malik and Slegr, a bit behind Salo.

SopelFan*
10-13-2003, 06:08 PM
He wasn't anything special tonight, but I agree, he does not deserve the blame. He was definatly one of the Canucks 4 best d-men. Better than Malik and Slegr, a bit behind Salo.
He wasn't anything special... but he doesn't have to be. As long as he isn't negatively effecting the team. +4 on the season, good start :).

Nalyd Psycho
10-13-2003, 06:10 PM
He wasn't anything special... but he doesn't have to be. As long as he isn't negatively effecting the team. +4 on the season, good start :).


Agreed, I expect him to play like a #4 d-man and he played like one tonight. He does sometimes have special games and I do like that more. Slegr should be the one bumped for Allen next game as he was the worst.

MVP
10-13-2003, 06:15 PM
This game is Cloutier fault.

i think Crawford should start Cloutier again next game against The Red Wings and see if Cloutier can bound back with a strong effort. Either ways, Hedberg will get the start against the Wild.

Burke's Evil Spirit
10-13-2003, 06:18 PM
Agreed, I expect him to play like a #4 d-man and he played like one tonight. He does sometimes have special games and I do like that more. Slegr should be the one bumped for Allen next game as he was the worst.

Yeah, Sopel made some pretty heads-up plays and sparked some decent rushes. No finish (yet) but it will come.

PhillyNucksFan
10-13-2003, 06:23 PM
:dunno: Sopel actually played a somewhat decent game... although he still coughs up the puck often.. and I still dont like him


Cloutier.. that 2nd goal was a soft one IMO.. how the hell the puck snuck through his pads!?! with so much traffic there and on a very bad angle shot..


I dont know... but if Cloutier doesnt bounce back against DET, we probably could see Hedberg more than Cloutier in near future, and HOPEFULLY, the team has not lost confidence in him..

not trying to be like canucks.com board, but Cloutier really frustrates a lot of people around!! We dont need him to be spectacular, but at least accountable... heck, still, every time he comes out to get the puck, I was afraid that forward pressuring could make him cough the puck or bad clear attempt.. !@#!$%

:dunno:

kmad
10-13-2003, 06:27 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Slegr got put on waivers and Mojzis was called up if he keeps putting in performances like tonight

PhillyNucksFan
10-13-2003, 06:27 PM
BTW, why is King the scratch tonight!?!?!?!

I thought he played good games in the first 2!! and Ruutu with Sedins just doesnt have as much going as with King, and the 2nd line just doesnt look dangerous enough!!

PUT KING BACK IN!!!

maruk14
10-13-2003, 06:59 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Slegr got put on waivers and Mojzis was called up if he keeps putting in performances like tonight

I would. Slegr had a poor game, but he played pretty well Saturday. I won't be surprised to see him sit a game, but waivers won't happen.

BTW, Mojzis got hurt during the Moose opener and missed the game today. Not sure how serious it is.

Tatehamma
10-13-2003, 07:00 PM
Where is Nazzy's dominance? Seems to me that he isnt getting his shots through as easily as before....lets go boyz.

nucks2001
10-13-2003, 07:57 PM
It is amazing how people forget how Cloutier stood in his head in the 3rd to keep the games close. Where are the complaints on Naslund? No points in 3 games.. Bertuzzi has 1 goal.. I'm starting to think Cloutier could have 10 shutouts in a row and then let in one bad goal and people would still be all over him because they have nothing better to do.

Castor Troy
10-13-2003, 08:11 PM
I'd be really pissed off at Cloutier if I was any member of the team that played tonight. That game was going all our way until he felt the need to inject some emotion into it. Not only that, but he decided to give Columbus a further boost and let them get on the board with a softie. Hedberg starts the next game.

I blame the third goal on whichever forward was up high with Richardson. Said forward NEEDED to lay down, take one for the team, and block that shot. Said forward was in position to block the shot, but thought it best to stand there and ***** out instead of saving the game. Whoever it was should be the odd man out next game... Send a message Crow, team defence includes shot blocking!!

Thalia
10-13-2003, 08:16 PM
It is amazing how people forget how Cloutier stood in his head in the 3rd to keep the games close. Where are the complaints on Naslund? No points in 3 games.. Bertuzzi has 1 goal.. I'm starting to think Cloutier could have 10 shutouts in a row and then let in one bad goal and people would still be all over him because they have nothing better to do.I like Dan and I like the fact that he's got a nasty streak but I don't like it when he loses his temper so easily and then his composure. Add that into his poor puckhandling skills, well, it just makes me nervous when he's in net.

It's only his second game of the season... why is he so damn uptight out there? Relax man. No need to yap at the home team's bench over some trivial matter... be professional. :rolleyes:

I betcha Hedberg was grinning like the Chesire Cat on the bench tonight... just waiting ever so patiently so he can pounce on Cloutier's job.

Any guesses as to who Crow goes with for the next game?

KOMO_ROCKS
10-13-2003, 08:38 PM
This game is Cloutier fault.

i think Crawford should start Cloutier again next game against The Red Wings and see if Cloutier can bound back with a strong effort. Either ways, Hedberg will get the start against the Wild.

I wonder how many games Danny will play this season.......I think the team does not have that much confidence when he is in net....so it is not all his fault.

MVP
10-13-2003, 08:47 PM
I wonder how many games Danny will play this season.......I think the team does not have that much confidence when he is in net....so it is not all his fault.


The early assumption seems to be that Cloutier will get around 50 games as a starter, but that can obviously be changed throughout the season much than how Dipetro already replaced Snow although Snow was assumed as #1 goalie.

As far as the confidence goes, i don't think it is so much that the team in front of hate to play for Cloutier or anything like that. On the other hand, the facts are Cloutier has a terrible temper and stick handling skill both of which are very important aspects of being a good goalie nowadays. For example, if you have a good puck handling like Martin Brodeur it is like a extra defenceman that take a lot of pressure off the rest of the team and avoid unnecessary mistake. And Cloutier bad temper is a problem in term of the other team trying to be physical with him and get him off his game. A lot of people though he would have improved on those two aspects of the game, but obviously he has not, in that regard it is very disappointing.

LaVal
10-13-2003, 08:47 PM
How so?


I do agree that Cloutier should shoulder some of the blame on this one. He let his emotions get the better of him and took a stupid penalty. He then let in a soft goal. He played well for the majority of the game, but that penalty and ensuing goal looked like it took some of the wind out of the Canucks' sails.

That said, this game wasn't lost by Cloutier. The 2nd and 3rd goals were of no fault to Cloutier.

how so? when we get Cloutier bashing topics appearing on the board. i don't care if he could have played better or not, we should be above that type of thing and have never done so in the past.

besides my point wasn't saying whether the topic was merrited or not, simply pointing out the fact that it made the forum resemble the Canucks.com forum.

KOMO_ROCKS
10-13-2003, 08:53 PM
The early assumption seems to be that Cloutier will get around 50 games as a starter, but that can obviously be changed throughout the season much than how Dipetro already replaced Snow although Snow was assumed as #1 goalie.

As far as the confidence goes, i don't think it is so much that the team in front of hate to play for Cloutier or anything like that. On the other hand, the facts are Cloutier has a terrible temper and stick handling skill both of which are very important aspects of being a good goalie nowadays. For example, if you have a good puck handling like Martin Brodeur it is like a extra defenceman that take a lot of pressure off the rest of the team and avoid unnecessary mistake. And Cloutier bad temper is a problem in term of the other team trying to be physical with him and get him off his game. A lot of people though he would have improved on those two aspects of the game, but obviously he has not, in that regard it is very disappointing.

At least Cloutier is not getting booed by Vancouver fans, in contrast to Breezer and some hab fans at the game

MVP
10-13-2003, 08:54 PM
At least Cloutier is not getting booed by Vancouver fans, in contrast to Breezer and some hab fans at the game


Btw the game was played in Columbus, not saying the Canucks fans would boo him, but even if the Canucks fans choose to, they did not have the chance to do so.

Pangolin
10-13-2003, 09:01 PM
I don't think it's suppose to be a penalty though...Or at least Spacek should have gotten one as well if Clouts did...
It was clear that when Cloutier went to the bench he was going to the bench, and when Spacek said something, Clouts turned 45 degree to Spacek and the Jackets' bench. And Clouts didn't do anything Spacek didn't do...

nazzy
10-13-2003, 09:02 PM
Guys it's only three games into the regular season, don't get too worked up about one loss. :p Cloutier's first goal was a little soft but the other two he didn't have much of a chance at, he also played well to give the Canucks a chance to tie but they're the ones that ****ed up. Putting Slegr on waivers? That's rediculous, he just played one poor game and looked quite good in the other game. I think Cloutier deserves the start in Detroit to get a chance to bounce back, some of you are making it sound like he played horrendous tonight. I was surprised to see King scratched honestly, and the Sedins didn't really have anyone to play with that could finish (Ruutu and May won't do). But calm down and just hope for the best in the next. :)

Impossibles
10-13-2003, 09:08 PM
Game 3 and there is already a "blame cloutier" thread?

:lol:

We lost 3-2 because the blue jackets just plain played harder. They managed to sustain pressure in our zone, and our forwards didn't score when they had the chance.

It's hockey...last time I remember, no team has gone 82-0.

PhillyNucksFan
10-13-2003, 09:59 PM
Even though its only 3rd game into the season, I'd say the team's confidence level in front of Cloutier is shaking, and yayaya, only 3 games, but each game is a little chip off the team confidence.

I dont know, but in that game Hedberg played, team looks muchmore confident too.. ya, its only one game, we will see when Hedberg starts 10 games.

:(

I like Cloutier since his days in NYR, but confidence is shaking after last couple year's playoff run... :teach:

KOMO_ROCKS
10-13-2003, 10:20 PM
Btw the game was played in Columbus, not saying the Canucks fans would boo him, but even if the Canucks fans choose to, they did not have the chance to do so.

Yes I know the game was played in Columbus since I did watch a 3rd period ;) I am curious how Canuck fans will react to him if he performs poorly at home....will they continue to support or get on him? Time will tell

ttr
10-14-2003, 12:08 AM
A **** DO RILE

that's an anagram for dan the man :rolleyes:

quat
10-14-2003, 12:10 AM
Obviously there have been only three games, but it's starting to look to me like Hedburgs' style of play is more suited to the Canucks. When Cloutier's in the net, teams know they can dump the puck in and have a fair chance of either retrieving the puck or putting allot of pressure on the D, possibley forcing a turnover. With Hedburg that is much less an option, and as we know, when the Canucks have puck possetion, they attack like crazy. I just think the team D looks a whole lot better with a guy who can play the puck well. My guess is Burke et al looked at how they lost to Minny and figured that might be the best way to beat the trap.

orcatown
10-14-2003, 12:20 AM
I think those cautions about scapegoating Cloutier are well considered. However it does bother me that the fans, the team and management are constantly expected to bouy up Cloutier's confidence. To hell with that. He's 27 years old and is getting 2.5 mill. to play goal. He needs to grow up and take on the reponsibility of his own maturity. That includes keeping his focus entirely on the play. Nothing should at this point, and at this age, distract him.

He needs to take responsibility for his actions and make no excuses for his mistakes. If he expects to be coddled he should find another line of work. If he expects to make 2.5 mill. he should recognize that criticism and expectations come with the territory.

The loss today should not be blamed solely on him. Nor should we get over-reactive and write him off as done. However his actions in chirping at the Columbus bench were totally juvenile and inexcuseable. They showed that he had his mind on other things than stopping the puck. He owes the fans, his teammates and himself and heck of lot more professionalism than that. Danny its time to answer the bell.

cyrisweb
10-14-2003, 12:45 AM
Danny its time to answer the bell.

As said by Tom and Shorty... the Canucks had the game in controll untill Cloutier lost his temper. It's all good to support our goaltender but we have been supporting him for the last 3 years. If he cann't controll his anger then it's a problem.

tantalum
10-14-2003, 04:52 AM
The loss today should not be blamed solely on him. Nor should we get over-reactive and write him off as done. However his actions in chirping at the Columbus bench were totally juvenile and inexcuseable. They showed that he had his mind on other things than stopping the puck. He owes the fans, his teammates and himself and heck of lot more professionalism than that. Danny its time to answer the bell.

You might not believe it but we agree! IMO the last thing the coaching staff should do is start Cloutier against the Wings. It is past time to prop up his confidence and hope he can rebound by giving him the next game. He has the big money and he should have the necessary experience at this time to not let a small bump behind the net affect him to the point of skating to the bench and yapping...especially when the refs had already called Columbus on a goaltender interference penalty earlier in the game to show they were paying attention. Which I'm sure was a mitigating factor in Cloutier getting the two minutes for unsportsmanlike...he was making it look like the refs had missed something and were embarassing them.

Was he the sole reason for the loss? No he wasn't, but he was a major reason for the loss as was Slegr. And just like Slegr will have his ass planted in the pressbox against the Wings it's time to stop coddling Cloutier by giving him the next start when there is another capable goaltender. Cloutier should get a spot on the bench against the Wings and know that his stupid actions (not just the soft goals) have a consequence this year. Perhaps that will finally get it to sink in, though I wouldn't hold my breath on that. And let's be honest the players in front of him have got to be getting sick of it as well.

Blane Youngblood
10-14-2003, 06:24 AM
Broken record, i know what you mean, everyone dislikes him in vancouver, i liked his attitude but his play stinks, Canuck's should have started Hedberg.

The thing is, I'm a Cloutier fan, I just believe that it's time we start making him accountable for his actions. I say we start him against the Wings, these are the games he usually performs well in (the busy ones), if he is in fact our starter we give him a chance to fully loose his job. Really though, we should remember this game as strike one for this season. I'm not sure how many strikes he gets, I think that depends on how good Hedberg looks in his occasional starts, but this was the first, if he doesn't get his act together soon he'll be riding the pine and my hockey pool will go down in flames.

Thalia
10-14-2003, 09:30 AM
I think those cautions about scapegoating Cloutier are well considered. However it does bother me that the fans, the team and management are constantly expected to bouy up Cloutier's confidence. To hell with that. He's 27 years old and is getting 2.5 mill. to play goal. He needs to grow up and take on the reponsibility of his own maturity. That includes keeping his focus entirely on the play. Nothing should at this point, and at this age, distract him.

He needs to take responsibility for his actions and make no excuses for his mistakes. If he expects to be coddled he should find another line of work. If he expects to make 2.5 mill. he should recognize that criticism and expectations come with the territory.

The loss today should not be blamed solely on him. Nor should we get over-reactive and write him off as done. However his actions in chirping at the Columbus bench were totally juvenile and inexcuseable. They showed that he had his mind on other things than stopping the puck. He owes the fans, his teammates and himself and heck of lot more professionalism than that. Danny its time to answer the bell.

I'd say that 'bout sums it up imo. Well said.

I'm hoping (but not holding my breath as someone else already said) that Cloutier learns from his mistakes. He is sitting very precariously as number one right now and it's his position to lose.

He needs to calm down, take a deep breath and focus entirely on keeping pucks out of the net instead of worrying about all the little goings on of the opposing players and the refs.

If he can't stay focused for 60 minutes in his second game while knowing that Hedberg is just sitting there waiting for him to fail; if that doesn't make someone want to prove they're number one, nothing will imo. Well, Crow could always try Ritalin maybe... it seems to work well for other unfocused kids. :joker:

Phelo
10-14-2003, 09:59 AM
This loss was on Cloutier, though the comments regarding the need of more offense from Nazzy etc also have merit.

Cloutier should be given his chance to redeem himself....after the Detroit game. I think his emotional reaction last game was unprofessional and he should pay for it by riding the pine the next game.

Plus, I was really impressed with Hedberg's ability to play the puck on Saturday, though in truth there were a couple moments when he nearly gave it away while trying to do a pass.

Hi-wayman
10-14-2003, 11:34 AM
Guys it's only three games into the regular season, don't get too worked up about one loss. :p Cloutier's first goal was a little soft but the other two he didn't have much of a chance at, he also played well to give the Canucks a chance to tie but they're the ones that ****ed up. Putting Slegr on waivers? That's rediculous, he just played one poor game and looked quite good in the other game. I think Cloutier deserves the start in Detroit to get a chance to bounce back, some of you are making it sound like he played horrendous tonight. I was surprised to see King scratched honestly, and the Sedins didn't really have anyone to play with that could finish (Ruutu and May won't do). But calm down and just hope for the best in the next. :)
What do you mean "don't get too worked up about one loss"? Do you not realize that 164 points this season is now totally impossible & we will have to now have to wait a whole year to start over again!. This loss totally wipes out the season for me. Three games into the season & I've already lost my $0.85 bet that the Canucks would go undefeated this year. What is this world coming to!

Hi-wayman
10-14-2003, 11:40 AM
Why does Cloutier insist on skating to the bench during every TV time out anyway? He does this constantly! Crawford should tell him to stay put like almost every other goaltender out there, drink some water, and watch the pretty girls push the brooms around the ice. Geez.
superstition (good luck habit) & allows him to move around & loosen up.

Thalia
10-14-2003, 11:49 AM
I came accross this comment on another board and thought it was pretty funny. I don't consider myself a Cloutier basher by any means but I know there are plenty of them out there and obviously this guy/gal is one.

Still, it was an 'entertaining' read nonetheless so I'm sharing it here for no other reason than it gave me a chuckle. Must be that offbeat humour of mine kicking into action again. :D

----------------

As a new season dawns for the Vancouver Canucks, I'd like to take the time to apologize for my dismal performance as a fan in the 2002/03 season.

In many ways the epic playoff failure of the 'Nucks against the Wild last season was largely my fault. And I fully accept the blame. I acknowledge the responsibility. I'll take the fall. I'll hold the bag. I admit I goofed. I am so very, very, very sorry.

My sin?

Well, as a fan . . . I simply should have done more to run Dan Cloutier out of town.

I could have booed the loser more at games. I could have waived a "Death to Cloutier" banner in front of the cameras during HNIC. I could have led other fans in a ceremonial burning of Cloutier in effigy.

I could have flooded the radio talk show airwaves with bitter anti-Cloutier bile. I could have sent nasty letters to Brian Burke. I could have pissed on Cloutier's luggage more often.

I could have driven donuts on his lawn with my motorcycle. I could have egged his house. I could have strangled his cat. I could have seduced his wife. I could have had my kids make fun of his kids in school, not share sandwiches with them, ridicule their lunchboxes . . . you know, the small cruelties that often hurt the most.

I could have made more fun of his outrageous accent. I could have made more of those prank phone calls late at night ("Hey, Dan. Is your refrigerator running?"). I could have initiated a city-wide billboard advertising campaign against him ("Just leave Dan. Now. For your own safety . . .").

I could have arranged for a few more cross burnings with the local chapter of the Klu Klux Klan (Lord knows, we have enough of them going on in this Province. Why even as I speak they're probably at it in Price George . . . ).

I could have organized a national plebiscite calling for the revocation of his citizenship. A world day of protest and firebombings against the universal menace that is Cloutier was probably called for . . .

But no.

I'm sorry fellas. I got weak in the knees.

He just plain fooled me with that performance in November. I'm sorry. I shoulda seen through it.

But it's a new season.

And this year I won't make the same mistake again.

This year I promise to be on his case every game, every misplayed rebound and every scoring opportunity he creates through his poor positioning.

No matter how well he might play on a given night or over a string of games, I'll still be down on him.

Because we all know - deep down in our hearts we can't help but recognize - that if we give Cloutier the opportunity he'll sink us in the end. Just like he has each of the last three years.

Remember Dan. I'll be out there all season, waiting to pounce on your slightest miscue, to humiliate you at every opportunity . . . and to steal your fries if left unattended.
_________________

cc
10-14-2003, 12:06 PM
I think it was a mistake for Crow to pencil Cloutier in against Columbus. Some goalies seem to play worse against some teams than others and Clouts record last year against them showed that. In retrospect, it would have been better to play Clouts against both Calgary and Edmonton, and save Columbus for Hedberg. Potentially, the Canucks could have a two goalie system similar to what the Wild have.

Impossibles
10-14-2003, 12:12 PM
This thread is the reason why i hate being a canuck fan sometimes.

MVP
10-14-2003, 12:13 PM
I think it was a mistake for Crow to pencil Cloutier in against Columbus. Some goalies seem to play worse against some teams than others and Clouts record last year against them showed that. In retrospect, it would have been better to play Clouts against both Calgary and Edmonton, and save Columbus for Hedberg. Potentially, the Canucks could have a two goalie system similar to what the Wild have.


So by finding favorable matchup for Cloutier even against a non-playoff team such as Columbus, are we babysitting Clouteri again? i thought we are pass that by now, i mean he is 27 years old afterall.

cc
10-14-2003, 12:20 PM
So by finding favorable matchup for Cloutier even against a non-playoff team such as Columbus, are we babysitting Clouteri again? i thought we are pass that by now, i mean he is 27 years old afterall.

you can look at it that way certainly. I'm not a Cloutier fan at all and have bashed him on more than one occasion... but the fact of that matter is, he's still part of the team, and in which case, I think he should be utilized in the best way he possibly could. Make the best of it somehow. I'm not suggesting playing Cloutier against weaker teams, certainly not... I remember he had really good records against some teams and even strong teams but weaker against even some like Columbus, Philly, and Boston. I'm just suggesting to play Cloutier to his strengths. I think this is what a lot of teams do at times.

MVP
10-14-2003, 12:29 PM
you can look at it that way certainly. I'm not a Cloutier fan at all and have bashed him on more than one occasion... but the fact of that matter is, he's still part of the team, and in which case, I think he should be utilized in the best way he possibly could. Make the best of it somehow. I'm not suggesting playing Cloutier against weaker teams, certainly not... I remember he had really good records against some teams and even strong teams but weaker against even some like Columbus, Philly, and Boston. I'm just suggesting to play Cloutier to his strengths. I think this is what a lot of teams do at times.


In part i agree with you, especailly in the case of a young goalie such as Rick Dipietro. In the case of Cloutier, it is a little different this season, the expectation for this team is very high this season. The management knows that, the players know that and the fan knows that. The bottom line is the Canucks are preparing for the playoff right now, that is how it is for Cup contentor. The Avs did it with the year they won it with Bourque and Red Wings did it with the year they won it with Hasek. That just the approach the team has to take in order to be successful. i am looking at treating Cloutier as a true #1 starter in the playoff, which is an environment that Cloutier has to preform regardless of the matchup or scenario. i think it is critical for Crawford to test Cloutier against some difficult circumstance, i mean if Cloutier had tough time against Columbus, good play him against Columbus and see if he can pass that challenege. And if Cloutier had a tough time against Detriot, again good, play him against the Red Wings and see how Cloutier plays. I much rather have Cloutier all tested out in beginning of the season, than to babysit him and find out in the playoff that he cannot handle the pressure.

cc
10-14-2003, 12:44 PM
In part i agree with you, especailly in the case of a young goalie such as Rick Dipietro. In the case of Cloutier, it is a little different this season, the expectation for this team is very high this season. The management knows that, the players know that and the fan knows that. The bottom line is the Canucks are preparing for the playoff right now, that is how it is for Cup contentor. The Avs did it with the year they won it with Bourque and Red Wings did it with the year they won it with Hasek. That just the approach the team has to take in order to be successful. i am looking at treating Cloutier as a true #1 starter in the playoff, which is an environment that Cloutier has to preform regardless of the matchup or scenario. i think it is critical for Crawford to test Cloutier against some difficult circumstance, i mean if Cloutier had tough time against Columbus, good play him against Columbus and see if he can pass that challenege. And if Cloutier had a tough time against Detriot, again good, play him against the Red Wings and see how Cloutier plays. I much rather have Cloutier all tested out in beginning of the season, than to babysit him and find out in the playoff that he cannot handle the pressure.

I will go on the record right now and proclaim that Cloutier isn't a good enough starter for this team, especially relative to the abilities of everyone else on the team. To me, he isn't a true number one so the duties between Hedberg and him should be split more evenly but he's here, and at worst, you could boost up his stats and make him look more marketable for a trade.
Considering his decent regular season record, I would say that there were more than a few teams that he had a good time against and I don't see any problem starting him against those teams... not exclusively mind you... but the Canucks shouldn't feel a reluctance to play him against teams that he's good against.

Street Hawk
10-14-2003, 04:59 PM
This thread is the reason why i hate being a canuck fan sometimes.

Sometimes, we Nuck fans do go a bit over board, but in this instance, I think Cloutier brought this upon himself.

Nucks now have a goalie who is more than capable of playing in 3 or more straight games, no problem. There is no more Brochu, thank goodness, no Skudra and Essensa (played great for us, but was ideally suited to play 1 out of every 3 games, not 3 straight.)

Cloutier is now 27 years old, time for him to be a leader on this team and keep himself in check to instill confidence in his teammates.

Before this trip, I'd say Dan was scheduled to play 2 of the 3 games, but after that undisciplined penalty, that should cost him 1 of his starts. To send a strong message, Crow to sit Cloutier for the next 3, barring of course a complete meltdown against any of the opponents.

Impossibles
10-14-2003, 05:37 PM
Sometimes, we Nuck fans do go a bit over board, but in this instance, I think Cloutier brought this upon himself.

Nucks now have a goalie who is more than capable of playing in 3 or more straight games, no problem. There is no more Brochu, thank goodness, no Skudra and Essensa (played great for us, but was ideally suited to play 1 out of every 3 games, not 3 straight.)

Cloutier is now 27 years old, time for him to be a leader on this team and keep himself in check to instill confidence in his teammates.

Before this trip, I'd say Dan was scheduled to play 2 of the 3 games, but after that undisciplined penalty, that should cost him 1 of his starts. To send a strong message, Crow to sit Cloutier for the next 3, barring of course a complete meltdown against any of the opponents.

So because we lost a game by 1 goal, cloutier should be benched for 3 straight?

In case you guys haven't noticed, no team has ever gone 82-0-0, and no goalie has never let in a soft goal. Cloutier still kept the team in the game when CBJ was controlling the play in the second period.

Soft goals and mistakes happen, even to the best goalies. Its how goalies respond after those goals/mistakes is what makes a goalie good or bad. Wait a few games before the next "blame cloutier" thread.

PecaFan
10-14-2003, 06:08 PM
So by finding favorable matchup for Cloutier even against a non-playoff team such as Columbus, are we babysitting Clouteri again? i thought we are pass that by now, i mean he is 27 years old afterall.

It's not really a favourable matchup though in the sense that it's an obvious "backup" game, against one of the bottom dwellers. So when Dan gets given the game, it doesn't really help his confidence. In an genuine starter/backup situation like most teams around the league, Dan would get the opener, Edmonton, and Detroit games, while the backup would get the Columbus game.

As a guy with confidence issues in his career, getting a start against Columbus hurts it, rather than babysits him.

Blane Youngblood
10-14-2003, 07:19 PM
So because we lost a game by 1 goal, cloutier should be benched for 3 straight?

In case you guys haven't noticed, no team has ever gone 82-0-0, and no goalie has never let in a soft goal. Cloutier still kept the team in the game when CBJ was controlling the play in the second period.

Soft goals and mistakes happen, even to the best goalies. Its how goalies respond after those goals/mistakes is what makes a goalie good or bad. Wait a few games before the next "blame cloutier" thread.

Wow, don't blame the thread. I've offered pretty reasonable statements here, it seems like you haven't even read the thread based on your comments. 1) I've said Clouts should start against Detroit. 2) 1 goal, 100 goals, a loss is a loss, the part that has me riled up is that this loss easily could have been avoided. We had the game in control, then Cloutier takes a dumb penalty followed by letting in a soft, this killed the teams momentum and probably didn't help the teams confidence in him. He gave CBJ the momentum, plain and simple.

Finally, if Cloutier doesn't go and give reason for a "blame Cloutier" thread there will never be one again, if he happens to shoot the puck directly into his own net 4 times during his next start and we lose 4-3, there might be another blame Cloutier thread after his next start. I hate to break it to you, but this thread was started based on performance, not a hatred for Cloutier, or because I'm sad because we won't go 82-0. So next time you go and crap on a thread why don't you actually try to figure out what it's about.