Kinder and gentler new improved Bobby Holik - NY Times

Unthinkable
10-15-2003, 08:58 AM
GREENBURGH, N.Y., Oct. 14 - After spurning the Devils to sign with the
Rangers before last season, center Bobby Holik quickly became his new
team's most outspoken in-house critic.

When asked Tuesday if he felt Holik had been a divisive influence in
the dressing room, Glen Sather, who signed Holik, did not flinch.

"Absolutely," said Sather, the Rangers' president, general manager and
coach, after running his team through practice.

Starting with a season-ending meeting with Holik in April, Sather began
pressuring him not to say anything negative about the team, which
missed the playoffs for the sixth consecutive time last season. Holik's
response so far has been not to be critical.

"I have a self-imposed policy where I can only talk about my own self,"
Holik said in St. Paul on Friday night after the Rangers opened their
season by squandering a 3-1 second-period lead in a 5-3 loss to the
Minnesota Wild.
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Guttersnipe
10-15-2003, 02:16 PM
I'm really enjoying how Ranger fans are realizing Holik is overrated whiny jackass.

He doesn't make his teammates better, he isn't a leader and he played his ass off his last year in NJ so he could retire as a Ranger (while still being an active player).

Do they boo him at MSG?

Brodeur
10-15-2003, 03:34 PM
I personally think there's a distinction between overrated and overpaid. I'd classify Bobby in the latter.......I don't think anybody expected more than a #2 center that could put up 50-60 points a year, and be an effective shutdown guy in the playoffs.

I think we got very lucky when Bobby declined Lou's offer of 41 million.

Trottier
10-15-2003, 03:39 PM
Whiny? Yes.

Jackass? No opinion.

Overrated? Certainly not worthy of his current salary. (How many NHL players are worth $9M per season?) But to suggest that he played hard "his last season in NJ" is to severely understate a solid decade of contribution to the Devils. The guy was a horse down the middle, a significant component to a winning team for a long stretch.

The Devil's continued success without Holik does not diminish that fact.

One would think a Devil's fan would be the first to acknowledge as much.

NJDevils#4
10-15-2003, 04:31 PM
I still enjoyed watching Holik out on the ice in a Devils uni. Other than his play, there's nothing I like about Holik. To be honest, I don't think I've watched one game he's played in NY, except when they play the Devils. From what I've heard he wasn't worth the money. Thats fine with me. Madden is now the guy to watch. If he gets greedy, he'll go on and probably be in a worse defensive system and won't flourish, just like Holik. Sather overpaid. Do doubt about it.

NJ_Devil_Boy
10-15-2003, 04:32 PM
He may be overpaid, but I'd take Holik on my team anyday.

NJDevils#4
10-15-2003, 04:51 PM
He may be overpaid, but I'd take Holik on my team anyday.

Absolutely. But he got greedy.

Guttersnipe
10-15-2003, 05:48 PM
I liked Holik on the Devils. He was a great pest/agitator and who doesn't like watch a player give someone a nice face wash?

I actually dislike the word 'overrated', since it's pretty vague. But he wouldn't be making 9 million a year if the Rangers didn't consider him an elite player. He's the 14th highest paid player in the NHL, that's just surreal, IMHO.

Son of Steinbrenner
10-15-2003, 06:58 PM
I'm really enjoying how Ranger fans are realizing Holik is overrated whiny jackass.

He doesn't make his teammates better, he isn't a leader and he played his ass off his last year in NJ so he could retire as a Ranger (while still being an active player).

Do they boo him at MSG?

Dude no Rangers fans are happy with what this team has become. i think you might want to change that question to.......................

I'm really enjoying how Ranger managment are realizing Holik is overrated whiny jackass?

The Rangers fans have to put up with this guy playing for our team. personally i think holik is a damn good third line center but he will never be worth 9m a year. but lets face it everything bobby holik said last year was mostly true!!!

JimEIV
10-16-2003, 06:41 AM
Whiny? Yes.

Jackass? No opinion.

Overrated? Certainly not worthy of his current salary. (How many NHL players are worth $9M per season?) But to suggest that he played hard "his last season in NJ" is to severely understate a solid decade of contribution to the Devils. The guy was a horse down the middle, a significant component to a winning team for a long stretch.

The Devil's continued success without Holik does not diminish that fact.

One would think a Devil's fan would be the first to acknowledge as much.


Couple of things;

I really hate the way Bobby gets bashed by fellow devil fans, but it is deserved.

He was a good player for the Devs, but I would argue in good faith he was never a significant component.

When he came to NJ in 1992-93 after only 2 full NHL season he was already labeled an under achiever.........In the 1994 Player Handbook Sherry Ross wrote something to the effect, "An imposing centermen with all the raw tools to be a number #1 center in the NHL, but destined to be a career 4th liner." From 92 until about 96-97 Bobby Holik was a 4th liner, albeit a very good one.

For the most part, Bobby never really was more than a 3rd line Checking Center for NJ, again, albeit a very good one.

Yes Bobby Holik had tons of intangibles that never show up on the score sheet. There is no denying that. But were they [intangibles] any greater than Bob Carpenter's, Shawn Chamber's, Ken Daneyko's, Sergie Brylin's, Jay Pandolfo's, Randy McKay's or any of the other players that were given a specific job and did it well?

Isn't amazing how an average player seems to raise their level of play when they are given a specific job to do? One player all of a sudden doesn't seem so magical without the supporting cast. Who was on the ice before you and who is coming over the boards next is just as essential to an idividual players success as skill is.

Bobby was a thread in a complicated tapestry.


Look, I'm not trying to down play Holik. I would take on my team in a second. But in NJ no one piece is greater than whole.

John Flyers Fan
10-16-2003, 08:03 AM
Couple of things;

I really hate the way Bobby gets bashed by fellow devil fans, but it is deserved.

He was a good player for the Devs, but I would argue in good faith he was never a significant component.




He's not worth anything close to what he's getting paid, and is either a very very good 3rd line center or a decent 2nd line center, he was certainly a significant component to the Devils success.

Trottier
10-16-2003, 10:17 PM
...Look, I'm not trying to down play Holik. I would take on my team in a second. But in NJ no one piece is greater than whole.

I agree with virtually every word you stated about Holik. When he joined NJ from Hartford, he was considered an under-achiever, as he was thought to be a potential big scorer when drafted in the top 10 by the Whalers. (Who were owned, in part, at the time by Holik's fellow countryman tennis champion Ivan Lendl).

I do recall (perhaps incorrectly) that he moved up from fourth-line duty on the Crash line (with Peluso and McKay, no?) following the first Cup in '95. In my mind, he was/is a hybrid 3rd/2nd line center, not unlike Michael Peca. That is, not your prototypical offensively skilled top 6 forward.

But regardless, 3rd liner or not, Holik was a very important thread in that tapestry to which you refer. But, as you also point out perfectly in the quote above, the genius of the Devils under Lou is that they are an incredibly resourceful organization/team.

Burke's Evil Spirit
10-16-2003, 10:32 PM
Frankly, Holik's comments last season, appropriate or not, were maybe the one shred of accountability in the entire Rangers organization. It makes perfect sense that that's not going to continue, given the way everything else is going on broadway.

Calling a fellow player out? Good GOD, what a NOVEL CONCEPT.

jacksheit
10-16-2003, 11:07 PM
I liked it better when Holik was mean n dedicated to the devils