10-17-2003, 08:26 AM
Watched Raffi Torres and he is looking really good for Edmonton, another goal and an assist. Not sure where Raffi would still fit with Papineau, Bergenheim and Isbister.
Have to admit I would love to see him in Wiemer's role here and Mezei in the role of the hitting defender.
But I also want to see more of Niinmaa and thrilled he is here because on paper this should be an excellent defense, he does a lot of things that are not in the boxscore.
10-17-2003, 08:55 AM
I'd rather have kept Meizi.I thought MM overpaid for Weimer.However, I'm happy with the Niinimma deal.It gives the isles some insurance in case they can't get Hamrlik signed to the extension.
It's really Torres-Izzy-Meizi or Niinimaa-Weimer-Tunik.
Edmonton sent a 2nd rounder to the isles in that Niinimaa deal.I'm pretty sure that the isles took Tunik with that pick.Kyle Woodlief had a predraft article in USA Today raving about Tunik,saying don't be surprised if Tunik went in the 1st round.
He's been described as a talented puckhog on the prospect board
10-17-2003, 09:57 AM
Considering that NYI - unlike some of their fans - wants to contend for the Cup near-term as well as in the future, Weimer/Janne are clearly preferable. Put it another way: rookie on LW and neophyte on D, in addition to all of the many rookies currently on the team?
Did anyone expect Torres to fall on his face in Edmonton? There certainly was no reason to.
Weimer is rapaidly becoming this year's Bates (not suggesting by the anyone in this thread). That is, a whipping boy. How quickly we forget that he was LW on NYI's most productive line last season and he is one reason why the team does not get pushed around, at all.
One can fairly question the Mezei move, but to label Weimer as of little value, as has been done by others, is to miss a lot.
10-17-2003, 01:46 PM
I'm not worried about any of these preferences or deals. I'm sure someone will post a thread in February when Isbister gets 5 points in 3 games and go, what do you think of that deal now?
Personally, I am relieved that this team has removed the Isbister albatross from around their necks. I think MM made the right deal and we spent the better part of the last two seasons with an actual NHL roster waiting for Izzy to break out. Not gonna happen, so I'm glad we moved on and upgraded from HOPE to PROVEN.
I have never been a fan of Weimer or the trade that brought him here. However, he does have intangibles that do not show up on the score sheet that seem to be valuable to the team. I do not like that he skates in cement and takes stupid penalties at the wrong time, but he does stick up for his teammates - which is important. In light of the deal made, Mezei has played 11 games for FL (aka no impact yet), but he could have been used solo or in a package to obtain a better overall player than Weimer. The fact is, come playoff time Scatch, Asham, Weimer are guys you lean on to get through the battles. So, I can deal with it.
Torres in EDM. Well, it's early and you gotta give to get. If Hammer is moved or leaves via UFA, then the impact of obtaining Niinimma will be that much more important.
10-18-2003, 06:14 AM
that i will take Wiemer-Niinimaa any day of the week over the the other three. Isbister is just not the player he showed to be once in a while. He is quite injury prone IMO, but Torres I like. I think raffi will be a good player, but even on this team where does he fit in? The players on the top 3 lines, all have better hands or intangibles then him. DO we want a top 5 pick turning into steve webb part 2? I prefer Niinimaa big time. As for wiemer or mezei, I am a HUGE wiemer fan. I love what he brings to this team. Him and Dave Scatchard make it hard on teams that take liberties, and are usually the first two to jump to any players aid on the team. Last year vs boston on a sat afternoon game, Blake got crushed by Sean Brown, and WIemer threw down. I have a ton of respect for him how he plays the game. I tell you this come monday night you will be glad he is here.
Isle Be Back
10-18-2003, 06:34 AM
I think raffi will be a good player, but even on this team where does he fit in? The players on the top 3 lines, all have better hands or intangibles then him. DO we want a top 5 pick turning into steve webb part 2? I prefer Niinimaa big time.
I don't think Steve Webb would be leading the Oilers in scoring after four games under any circumstances. Take a look at the Oilers stat page on any web site. I don't expect to see Torres at the top of this list all year long but to equate his offensive abilities to Steve Webb is terribly unfair.
This organization, and more specifically this GM, get criticized frequently for the young players they give up on or let get away. Sometimes thoe criticisms are fair and sometimes they are unfair. I don't enjoy being judgmental regarding trades and tend not to do so. And I won't be critical of this one either even though I'm tempted to because Niinimaa hasn't impressed me enough yet to make me feel good about it. But I will say that as time passes I expect Raffi's name to take a more and more prominent position among the list of quality players that passed through this organization without getting a chance to mature and develop here.
10-18-2003, 07:26 AM
Here's the thing, Niinimaa's contribution will be harder to notice than Raffi Torres because things he does will not show up in statistics.
I will not hold back on Wiemer, sorry if it offends anyone but it is what I see.
I did not like the Wiemer deal the day it happened, I did not like it last season and I do not like it today.
I think Scatchard and Blake would have done even more last year with a skilled left winger with some offense and a little grit. He has almost no offense to contribute to the lineup and this team needs balanced scoring and needed it at the end of last season.
Wiemer does not throw Webb kind of hits in the open ice that are clean and gets the team going, he does not take smart penalties or draw powerplays. He always plays right into the oppositions hands and over-reacts to take needless penalties. In many of those games the team showed nothing last season and were badly outplayed he had no impact.
All year long we kept reading his true impact would be in the
playoffs, (even though he has barely seen the playoffs in his career) he had no impact.
I would like to know how he opens up space for others on his line?
There's a reason he has been traded three times in his twenties and never became the offensive player he should have become and is invisible for long stretches.
Absolutely not the kind of player you trade for with a #10 overall pick and I'm not sure how he makes the Isles a better team now regardless of what they traded for him.
Wiemer's best contribution is his defensive play. I'll have to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one, it's not something that shows up in a boxscore. Defensive play is not hitting someone after a whistle and putting a team shorthanded. Maybe he is just a good leader-type in the room and that helps, I don't know.
And to be fair to Wiemer I think his best position is at center, he does not have that opportunity to play that position with the Isles, so we may not even have seen him at what he does best. Look at how Scatchard played as a right winger?
As long as he's wearing an Islander sweater I support him all the way. I hope he does things to change my mind about his game.
Now that I wrote this you can bet he will get a hat-trick tonight...
I only hope he does.
10-18-2003, 10:05 AM
I like Wiemer a lot more than you do and was glad we got him.
But, I disliked both deals. I think the Isles, more than anything else, badly need to develop their youngsters. I think Mezei and Torres are going to be two more in the long line of youngsters the Isles gave up on far too early.
Not taking anything way from Janne and Wiemer. I like both players a lot. I would just rather have some young talent developing on the team.
BTW, Mezei has played well in FLA but I still don't think he is ready to be a top four guy at this time in his career.
10-19-2003, 02:48 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't feel that Mezai will be an impact player? I don't recall him ever being offensively strong or willing to drop the gloves. Sure he's big and defensively good, but I don't see him being a star.
I like both Deals.
I'm a huge Torres fan and think he will be a second liner in the NHL, but Niinmaa is a very good defenseman. He may not be the crease clearing monster many wanted, but his smarts and skills on the blue line are a very good pickup. Don't forget we also got a second rouynder back in the deal. Izzy could still become a player, but had run out of chance on the Island. He has good power and decent hands but fails to put his tools to use all the time. Torres should become a much better player IMO because he brings enegry and effort every night.
As for the Wiemer Mezei Deal, Well I like waht Wiemer brings, but was not a fan of the proce paid for him.
IMO Compairing Wiemer to Webb is so far off base its silly. Wiemer will never put up huge numbers, but is a more complete hockey player by far. Webb had one use and that was as a human cannon ball. Wiemer can play a limited role in on ice but is not the liability that Webb was. Plus he can intimidate with his fists and not just be a human punching bag.
Webb was nice to have around while we could not afford a better player, but his time is up here.