Rank these Young D-men

Qubax
10-17-2003, 11:08 AM
Interms of future offensive upside and Norris possibility down the road...

Bouwmeester
Pitkanen
Hamhuis
Klesla
Jillson
Zidlicky
Grebshkov
A.Markov

Is Klesla all he is cracked up to be..? Or is he just going to take longer to find his niche and when he does the league better look out...

I actually have all of these D-men in my hocky pool and I was just wondering who are the most important long term based on offensive production and Norris possibilities....

Thanks

Biscuit Bullet
10-17-2003, 12:00 PM
Interms of future offensive upside and Norris possibility down the road...

Bouwmeester
Pitkanen
Hamhuis
Klesla
Jillson
Zidlicky
Grebshkov
A.Markov

Is Klesla all he is cracked up to be..? Or is he just going to take longer to find his niche and when he does the league better look out...

I actually have all of these D-men in my hocky pool and I was just wondering who are the most important long term based on offensive production and Norris possibilities....

Thanks
Bouwmeester
Pitkanen
Hamhuis
Klesla
Markov
Grebeshkov
Jillson
Zidlicky

Bring_Bak_Damphousse
10-17-2003, 12:39 PM
Interms of future offensive upside and Norris possibility down the road...

Bouwmeester
Pitkanen
Hamhuis
Klesla
Jillson
Zidlicky
Grebshkov
A.Markov

Is Klesla all he is cracked up to be..? Or is he just going to take longer to find his niche and when he does the league better look out...

I actually have all of these D-men in my hocky pool and I was just wondering who are the most important long term based on offensive production and Norris possibilities....

Thanks

Bouwmeester
Pitkanen
Klesla
Markov
Hamhuis
Grebeshkov
Jillson
Zidlicky

monster_bertuzzi
10-17-2003, 12:41 PM
Bouwmeester
Pitkanen
Klesla
Markov
Hamhuis
Grebeshkov
Zidlicky
Jilsson

triggrman
10-17-2003, 12:43 PM
Zidlicky is offensive upside is considerabley higher than his Norris potential.

#37-#93-#27*
10-17-2003, 12:54 PM
Bouwmeester - high offense/norris potential
Pitkanen - high offense/norris potential
Klesla - above average offense/norris potential
-
Markov - high offense
Hamhuis - high offense
-
Zidlicky - above average offense
Jillson - above average offense


I didn't include Grebeshkov since I haven't seen him yet.

Qubax
10-17-2003, 02:49 PM
Thanks guys....I appreciate the insight....

Anyone else...?

Jeffrey
10-17-2003, 03:00 PM
I think markov has norris potential !!
he's a great leader (on the ice)
good attitude..
he's very fast ...
he can play physical..
he's a nice passer..
he has a monster shot...
he's our best defensive d...
IMO it's norris potential...

#37-#93-#27*
10-17-2003, 03:05 PM
I think markov has norris potential !!
he's a great leader (on the ice)
good attitude..
he's very fast ...
he can play physical..
he's a nice passer..
he has a monster shot...
he's our best defensive d...
IMO it's norris potential...
that's nice and all but if that's your criteria then almost every good defenseman prospect could be said to have Norris potential. To me it means the player has the potential to be best defenseman in the league at some time in his career, I only see that in Klesla, Bouwmeester and Pitkanen, not saying they're the only 3 who can win it just the only three that could be said to have that potential.

Epoch
10-17-2003, 03:07 PM
Bouwmeester
Pitkanen
Hamhuis
Markov
Klesla
Zidlicky
Jillson
Grebeshkov

didjuicythat
10-17-2003, 03:56 PM
I think markov has norris potential !!
he's a great leader (on the ice)
good attitude..
he's very fast ...
he can play physical..
he's a nice passer..
he has a monster shot...
he's our best defensive d...
IMO it's norris potential...

Actually, some of your statements are not true. First, he's not even among the team's 3 fast skaters, as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't say he is physical, although I admit he can use the body from time to time. Also, our best defensive defenseman must be Sheldon Souray, who does a better job at clearing the net and is also more effective on the penalty killing, IMO.

Andrei clearly has high upside, but I couldn't let this one go by. He's not an all-around defenseman yet, as he still has to work on quite a few aspects of the game, especially in his own zone. He bases his game mostly on offense.

Jeffrey
10-17-2003, 04:16 PM
Actually, some of your statements are not true. First, he's not even among the team's 3 fast skaters, as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't say he is physical, although I admit he can use the body from time to time. Also, our best defensive defenseman must be Sheldon Souray, who does a better job at clearing the net and is also more effective on the penalty killing, IMO.

Andrei clearly has high upside, but I couldn't let this one go by. He's not an all-around defenseman yet, as he still has to work on quite a few aspects of the game, especially in his own zone. He bases his game mostly on offense.
he's very fast and yes he's one of our faster player !! (name me 3 habs player faster than him) i have ... bulis... nothing more..
he's not shy from physical play ... and he can throw some nice hits !!
and yes he's our best defensive defenseman !! souray is bigger and stronger but he's not as good as him in 1on1 situation and sometimes he made some bonehead play!
but i must admit he's better to clear the crease!
dont get me wrong there.. souray defensive play are overrated because he's a strong physical defenseman.. but yes he's close second behind markov!

Mizral
10-17-2003, 04:18 PM
In terms of upside, here's how I would rank them:


1 - A. Markov
2 - Bouwmeester
3 - Dan Hamhuis
4 - Grebshkov
5 - Klesla
6 - Pitkanen
7 - Jillson
8 - Zidlicky

Not sure if you meant to say these are the best 8 young defenseman, though. If so, there are a ton of others whom I think I would have in the top 5 ahead of most of those guys.

didjuicythat
10-17-2003, 04:22 PM
he's very fast and yes he's one of our faster player !! (name me 3 habs player faster than him)

On top of my head: Bulis, Kilger, and Dykhuis. My point was, yes I do believe Andrei has tremendous upside, and has the potential to be an amazing two-way defenseman in the NHL, but as of now he still needs to work on quite a few things to be at the elite level, eventhough he already made a name for himself around the league, as a great powerplay specialist. He still needs to get more experience before being considered at the higher level, if you ask me.

Jeffrey
10-17-2003, 04:25 PM
On top of my head: Bulis, Kilger, and Dykhuis. My point was, yes I do believe Andrei has tremendous upside, and has the potential to be an amazing two-way defenseman in the NHL, but as of now he still needs to work on quite a few things to be at the elite level, eventhough he already made a name for himself around the league, as a great powerplay specialist. He still needs to get more experience before being considered at the higher level, if you ask me.
kilger maybe... but dykhuis.. ok maybe he's a faster than him but he dont even play for the big club...

triggrman
10-17-2003, 04:31 PM
Most of those listed have Norris potential.

#37-#93-#27*
10-17-2003, 04:49 PM
In terms of upside, here's how I would rank them:


1 - A. Markov
2 - Bouwmeester
3 - Dan Hamhuis
4 - Grebshkov
5 - Klesla
6 - Pitkanen
7 - Jillson
8 - Zidlicky

Not sure if you meant to say these are the best 8 young defenseman, though. If so, there are a ton of others whom I think I would have in the top 5 ahead of most of those guys.
Markov that high? Unreal.

MagnuusPoxgazila
10-17-2003, 05:05 PM
Bouwmeester
Klesla
Pitkanen
A. Markov
Jillson
Zidlicky
Hamhius
Grebeshkov

JordanStaal#1Fan
10-17-2003, 05:13 PM
Mizral is a Markov nut, also a Parise/Suter nut. lol

Markov is the best of them all. At least, he is the most proven d-men in this pack. Bouwmeester and Pitkanen might be better one day, the others, they are under Markov.

As for Klesla, I don't think he will ever be near to a Norris...

#37-#93-#27*
10-17-2003, 05:16 PM
Markov is the best of them all. At least, he is the most proven d-men in this pack. Bouwmeester and Pitkanen might be better one day, the others, they are under Markov.

As for Klesla, I don't think he will ever be near to a Norris...
Key word: POTENTIAL
Key fact: PROSPECT BOARD


:rolleyes:

David
10-17-2003, 05:51 PM
Markov is the best of them all. At least, he is the most proven d-men in this pack. Bouwmeester and Pitkanen might be better one day, the others, they are under Markov.

As for Klesla, I don't think he will ever be near to a Norris...

I actually agree largely with what you say.

I think:

Bouwmeester
.
.
A. Markov/Pitkanen
.
.
.
rest of the pack.

Gags1288
10-17-2003, 08:40 PM
Here's how i'd rank them, though I might be slightly biased towards Pitkanen, he looks to be the real deal to me.
Bouwmeester/Pitkanen (I see these guys with similar upsides, both incredible skill and all around ability)

Markov
Klesla
Hamhuis
Grebshkov
Zidiliky
Jillson

I don't think any of the bottom 3 have norris potential, but they all have a very high offensive ceiling.

Mizral
10-18-2003, 07:55 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I don't see Bouwmeester developing all that well in Florida. I don't think he is as good as Jovanovski was, and Jovo had a better group of talent around him (that's scary to even think!). I think Bouwmeester will be a good defensemen, but I do not feel he will develop into the stalwart #1 man some feel he will, especially with that crap lineup around him. I look at him more like a Eric Brewer-type of guy.

One guy I felt was missing from the list there is Paul Mara. I think he will be better than many of those guys, too.

Alexei Semenov, too, I would rate above Klesla & Pitkanen & a few others.

Jim Fahey & Scott Hanaan on the Sharks are both quite impressive.

Cory Sarich & Pavel Kubina are darkhorses.

Nick Boynton SURELY deserves mention.

And he hasn't played an NHL game yet, but I feel Suter will be better then all of them, eventually.

Epsilon
10-18-2003, 10:15 AM
Pitkanen
Klesla
Bouwmeester
Markov
Grebeshkov
Hamhuis
Zidlicky
Jillson

looooob
10-18-2003, 12:18 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I don't see Bouwmeester developing all that well in Florida. I don't think he is as good as Jovanovski was, and Jovo had a better group of talent around him (that's scary to even think!). I think Bouwmeester will be a good defensemen, but I do not feel he will develop into the stalwart #1 man some feel he will, especially with that crap lineup around him. I look at him more like a Eric Brewer-type of guy.

One guy I felt was missing from the list there is Paul Mara. I think he will be better than many of those guys, too.

Alexei Semenov, too, I would rate above Klesla & Pitkanen & a few others.

Jim Fahey & Scott Hanaan on the Sharks are both quite impressive.

Cory Sarich & Pavel Kubina are darkhorses.

Nick Boynton SURELY deserves mention.

And he hasn't played an NHL game yet, but I feel Suter will be better then all of them, eventually.the list wasn't meant to be comprehensive....IIRC the poster stated he had all these dmen on his fantasy pool team and was looking for input

macho232
10-18-2003, 12:35 PM
Bouwmeester
Pitkanen
Klesla
Hamhuis
Markov
Jillson
Zidlicky
Grebshkov

zetterberg40
10-18-2003, 12:42 PM
Bouwmeester
Pitkanen
Klesla
Hamhuis
Markov
Jillson
Grebeshkov
Zidlicky

Jeffrey
10-18-2003, 12:58 PM
offensive upside:
1a- Markov
1b- Bouwmeester
3a- Hamhuis
3b- Pitkanen
5- Zidlicky
6- Klesla
7- Grebeshkov
8- Jillson

all around d-men:
1- Bouwmeester
2- Pitkanen
3a- Markov
3b- Klesla
5a- Grebeshkov
5b- Hamhuis
7- Jillson
8- Zidlicky

easton122
10-18-2003, 07:07 PM
1a Pitkanen (Norris)
1b Bouwmeester (Norris)
2 Klesla (Norris)
3 Markov
4 Grebeshkov
5 Hamhuis
6 Jillson
7 Zidlicky (i don't know much about him though)

triggrman
10-19-2003, 01:47 AM
I know it's early but Zidlicky has 2 goals 3 assist in his first 4 NHL games, in fact it's his first 4 games in North America period, so much for taking time to get used to the NHL ice. He also plays good defense and actually crushed Rick Nash with a open ice hipcheck tonight.

SmokeyClause
10-19-2003, 04:44 AM
He also plays good defense and actually crushed Rick Nash with a open ice hipcheck tonight.

After that hit, Nash spent about half of his ice time complaining to the refs about one thing or another. Orszagh popped him as well. Not sure if it was legal or not though. Nash didn't go out on his line change after that one, he went right for the ref and basically gave us a 5-4 until he decided to stop *****ing and get off the ice.

Jovavic
10-19-2003, 04:55 AM
After that hit, Nash spent about half of his ice time complaining to the refs about one thing or another. Orszagh popped him as well. Not sure if it was legal or not though. Nash didn't go out on his line change after that one, he went right for the ref and basically gave us a 5-4 until he decided to stop *****ing and get off the ice.

It was pretty obvious that Zidlicky jumped up to hit Nash with his shoulder (hipcheck? uh...ok). That textbook charging right there and refs missed it. He let them know about it. Then again, if Klesla nailed Legwand with the same hit, you'd be *****ing about the non call and so would Legwand.

Sticky*
10-19-2003, 05:21 AM
Here is how I would rate them based purely on potential:

1. Jay Bouwmeester - Nobody has more talent and potential than him, and he is already looking like he will begin to realize it.

2. Joni Pitkanen - Not looking out of place at all, ona veteran Flyers' team. Tremendous natural tools (much like Jay Bo).

3. Denis Grebeshkov - I think he will end up being a tremendous defenseman. He actually really reminds me of Scott Niedermayer. Nieds is obviously a better skater, but Grebs makes up for that with his physical play. Not to say he is slow, he is a tremendous skater, it's just nobody is as fast as NIedermayer. Has a lot of potential. The Kings will be scary with him and Gleason in a couple of years.

4. Rostislav Klesla - He is the least flashy player on the list, but also maybe the most solid. I think he'll turn out like Wade Redden (which is a huge compliment). Not really very noticable, but rarely makes a mistake, and will hit about 40-45pts a season at his prime.

5. Andrei Markov - Really looking good, it's just that he is older than the other guys, and who knows how much more improvement is left in him. But yeah, he is looking quite good.

6. Dan Hamhuis - He is one of my fav's, not the biggest, but plays huge, and loves to hit, as well, he knows how to put points on the board.

7. Jeff Jillson

8. Marek Zidlicky

Jillson and Zidlicky, I have had limited viewings, but I cannot see myself putting them above any of the other guys.

Qubax
10-19-2003, 08:37 AM
Thanks for all the views guys...

Seems like

Bouwmeester, Pitkanen are generally near the top...

then there's some varying views on the height of Klesla on this list as well as Markov...

Zidlicky and Jillson are somewhat lower down and even if these two get points it's fair to say some other guys on the list have a much better chance of getting Norris consideration...

SmokeyClause
10-19-2003, 12:12 PM
It was pretty obvious that Zidlicky jumped up to hit Nash with his shoulder (hipcheck? uh...ok). That textbook charging right there and refs missed it. He let them know about it. Then again, if Klesla nailed Legwand with the same hit, you'd be *****ing about the non call and so would Legwand.

He didn't complain about the Zidlicky hit. He complained about everything else though. He's a wonderful talent, (made some great moves) but he is a crybaby (atleast he was last night). Zids got a little in the air but on the replay I saw when I got home, it was no different than 80-90% of open ice hits in the league. He got less than 6 inches of air. Granted, it was illegal in the sense that he left his feet. But if the NHL called the rules the way they were supposed to, well hockey just wouldn't be hockey. It would be wonderful :D

triggrman
10-19-2003, 12:15 PM
Sorry Ozzy, I didn't see the replay, in real time, it looked like a hipcheck and it looked clean, regardless he leveled Nash.

Yayo
10-19-2003, 12:17 PM
1. Jay Bouwmeester
2. Joni Pitkanen
3. Rostislav Klesla
4. Denis Grebeshkov
5. Dan Hamhuis
6. Andrei Markov
7. Marek Zidlicky
8. Jeff Jillson

SmokeyClause
10-19-2003, 12:18 PM
Sorry Ozzy, I didn't see the replay, in real time, it looked like a hipcheck and it looked clean, regardless he leveled Nash.


It was a shoulder check, and while it wasn't technically legal, his skates were only about 3-4 inches off the ice max. You aren't going to get called for charging with that little jump.