Jiri Fischer v. Barret Jackman

Pick one, okay.

I'll go with Barret Jackman.

Jackman.

I'll have to stick my neck out and say that I voted for Fischer. I dont' want people to think, "well, everybody else voted for Jackman; I guess he's the best." (Remember the Asch experiment?) So to make the poll more fair, I will say that I voted for Fischer.

The only way this would ever be credible is if the abundance of Wings fans and the few Blues fans on this board don't vote.

I go with Fischer. I love his game. Nothing wrong with Jackman, his is great too, but it all comes down to style preference for me. Can't go wrong with either one.

I went with Jackman.

Barret Jackman.

The only way this would ever be credible is if the abundance of Wings fans and the few Blues fans on this board don't vote.
Which is why I feel all these private polls are not credible and only use the ones who reply for imput.

It was close but I voted for Jackman though I will probably be regretting it since it was more of a what's he done lately kind of thing.

I really do not like Jackman's game/attitude. Therefore, I chose Fischer. I think they will be comprable players in years to come.

LOL... so you chose Fischer because you have a personal issue with Jackman? That's pretty damn stupid.

LOL... so you chose Fischer because you have a personal issue with Jackman? That's pretty damn stupid.

He also prefers Mattias Timander before Derian hatcher since he has something against him. Also, I haven't checked the actual poll results, but you should actually try to avoid those, they really mean squat around here.

Anyway, despite his antics vs the Stars, I'm a huge Jackman fan so I'd pick him. However, Jiri Fischer has impressed me quite a ton lately as well, he's been a rock and has actually outplayed Derian Hatcher, Mattiue Schneider and Chris Chelios so far this season, coming out strong showing the injury has actually made him better rather then affect his play. Still prefer Jackman though, Jiri has to keep it up for a full season first.

Which is why I feel all these private polls are not credible and only use the ones who reply for imput.

It was close but I voted for Jackman though I will probably be regretting it since it was more of a what's he done lately kind of thing.
I considered making the poll public, but that might make the results even more skewed. If someone sees that Jackman has 60% of the vote, he's more likely to vote for Jackman. When people are anonymous, they are more likely to give their honest opinion.

I considered making the poll public, but that might make the results even more skewed. If someone sees that Jackman has 60% of the vote, he's more likely to vote for Jackman. When people are anonymous, they are more likely to give their honest opinion.

All you have to do to see the results before you vote is click VIEW RESULTS.

LOL... so you chose Fischer because you have a personal issue with Jackman? That's pretty damn stupid.
Is this what you are replying to:I really do not like Jackman's game/attitude. Therefore, I chose Fischer.
How is game/attitude a personal issue? If he'd said "I don't like Jackman's hair style, so I voted for Fischer," then your statement wouldn't be so stupid.

All you have to do to see the results before you vote is click VIEW RESULTS.
Read the last sentence once more.
When people are anonymous, they are more likely to give their honest opinion.

Read the last sentence once more.

I read it, thanks. And the reality is that when people can remain anonymous, people are more likely to be homers. Given the fact that there are considerably more Wings fans here than Blues fans (and I haven't even voted and do not plan to) you might as well take away a few of the votes for Fischer.

Personally, I think Super Joe has summed up my feelings quite nicely. I just don't even think they are on the same level right now. IMO, Salvador would be a better comparison for Fischer, but because the Wings get so much press and their fans overhype every single one of their players, some people have actually been convinced that Jackman and Fischer are on the same level.

I read it, thanks. And the reality is that when people can remain anonymous, people are more likely to be homers. Given the fact that there are considerably more Wings fans here than Blues fans (and I haven't even voted and do not plan to) you might as well take away a few of the votes for Fischer.

Personally, I think Super Joe has summed up my feelings quite nicely. I just don't even think they are on the same level right now. IMO, Salvador would be a better comparison for Fischer, but because the Wings get so much press and their fans overhype every single one of their players, some people have actually been convinced that Jackman and Fischer are on the same level.
No, when people are anonymous, they aren't afraid to say what they really think (homer pick or not). It's the truth. Ask a social psychologist. Don't even argue, you're wrong. Find me one study or experiment that states conclusively that anonymity doesn't increase truthfulness and I will consider that your statement isn't total crap.

I think that Fishcer is underrated by many because he plays behind Lidstrom, Chelios, Hatcher and Schneider. Many wings fans and others in the know realize that Fishcer was a big part of the reason that Chelios was a Norris finalist in 2003. But because he was injured the same year that Jackman won the Calder, Jackman is more recognizable. Using social psychology again, people vote for Jackman because of the availibility heuristic and the recency effect.

I'd take Fischer personally, but both are very good young defenseman with a very physical side who will be good for many years to come. Of course, I am admittedly biased in this poll because of my love for the Wings and hatred of the Blues, and thus I didn't vote in the poll itself.

I considered making the poll public, but that might make the results even more skewed. If someone sees that Jackman has 60% of the vote, he's more likely to vote for Jackman. When people are anonymous, they are more likely to give their honest opinion.
You can still view the results before voting if the poll is private.

Jiri Fischer.

Pretty easily.

You can still view the results before voting if the poll is private.
I know, but if the poll is public people might think, "well if I vote for the loser, people will think _____ about me." Anonymity is important if you want to know what people really think.

I know, but if the poll is public people might think, "well if I vote for the loser, people will think _____ about me." Anonymity is important if you want to know what people really think.
Well in this instance, I think weeding out the homers is pretty important to have a credible poll. In other examples, like the Havlat or Nagy one, I think the ones who voted for Nagy should be at least asked why. I don't think anyone would kill someone if they give their reasoning, I mean after all if they're going to be so outlandish they should at least do that.

I picked Fischer. Although Jackman proved himself with a great season last year, I believe that Fischer's great playoff run the year prior was no fluke and his huge size is a rare commodity.

No, when people are anonymous, they aren't afraid to say what they really think (homer pick or not). It's the truth. Ask a social psychologist. Don't even argue, you're wrong. Find me one study or experiment that states conclusively that anonymity doesn't increase truthfulness and I will consider that your statement isn't total crap.


:lol:

You're pretty damn funny. But, even more wrong. What you are referring to are studies about things where people would be embarrassed if people knew their true answers. For example: "Do you masturbate?"

This is nothing like that. This is more like asking someone rather they prefer McDonald's or Jack in the Box. I bet you couldn't find any experiment that proves that an anonymous poll would provide more accurate results.

There is no reason for anyone to be embarrassed for answering this question. I suspect that you are spewing this nonsense because you thought that people wouldn't vote for Fischer if people could see who they voted for. Unfortunately for you, anonymity didn't help your cause as Jackman still dominated the poll (especially when you take into consideration the biased votes such as yours and the votes of people who voted against Jackman because they don't like him).

:lol:

You're pretty damn funny. But, even more wrong. What you are referring to are studies about things where people would be embarrassed if people knew their true answers. For example: "Do you masturbate?"

This is nothing like that. There is no reason for anyone to be embarrassed for answering this question. I suspect that you are spewing this nonsense because you thought that people wouldn't vote for Fischer if people could see who they voted for. Unfortunately for you, anonymity didn't help your cause as Jackman still dominated the poll (especially when you take into consideration the biased votes such as yours and the votes of people who voted against Jackman because they don't like him).

Comedy. I'm sure there were no biased votes going for Jackman. Oh no. :rolleyes:

Comedy. I'm sure there were no biased votes going for Jackman. Oh no. :rolleyes:

Given the fact that there are 4 or 5 times more Wings fans on this board than Blues fans, it's definately a safe assumption that there have been more biased votes for Fischer than for Jackman. I appreciate your concern. Have a great evening.

Given the fact that there are 4 or 5 times more Wings fans on this board than Blues fans, it's definately a safe assumption that there have been more biased votes for Fischer than for Jackman. I appreciate your concern. Have a great evening.

Where did you get that info from? Just curious.

What information would that be?

What information would that be?

"Given the fact that there are 4 or 5 times more Wings fans on this board than Blues fans"

:lol: Where did I get the info that there are so many more Wings fans here? I used a little common sense and made an observation. It's rather obvious.

i'd take Fischer. the guy is a monster.

Jackman

:lol: Where did I get the info that there are so many more Wings fans here? I used a little common sense and made an observation. It's rather obvious.

Well to be fair, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would vote against Fischer just because he is a Red Wing. I don't understand the purpose of voting in a biased manner. It doesn't really mean anything, it's just a highly informal web poll.

With the way fischer was playing at the beginning of last season before his injury and how he's played in our 4 games so far this season, I choose him.

Yeah, Jackman won the calder and is a physical defensive D-man but I think Fischer is going to be a lot better in the future. He's faster, bigger, just as good defensively and is as physical as Jackman. Also he's got a ton of offensive potential while it seems that Jackman has already hit his ceiling offensively.

I voted for Fischer, maybe it's a homer vote. Maybe it's because Fischer is bigger and faster than Jackman. Fischer needs to work more on the offensive end. But eventually he'll get the time he needs. Mainly PP time.


But really, you couldn't go wrong with either of them.

With the way fischer was playing at the beginning of last season before his injury and how he's played in our 4 games so far this season, I choose him.

Yeah, Jackman won the calder and is a physical defensive D-man but I think Fischer is going to be a lot better in the future. He's faster, bigger, just as good defensively and is as physical as Jackman. Also he's got a ton of offensive potential while it seems that Jackman has already hit his ceiling offensively.

Considering you're making a decision based on what you've seen in less than 20 games (or 9% of his games played) , I guess it's a good thing you're not making the decisions for your favorite teams.

Fisher is not as good defensively. Fischer is not faster than Jackman. And, Fischer has shown absoltuely nothing to show that he has this amazing offensive potential that people speak of. It's like me pointing to Jackman's 4 point game last year and saying he's going to lead the league in scoring next season.

Re: Jackman hitting his ceiling offensively: That's complete BS. The kid put up nearly 20 points without playing on the PP at all. It's only a matter of time before he's on the Blues' 1st PP unit.

:lol:

You're pretty damn funny. But, even more wrong. What you are referring to are studies about things where people would be embarrassed if people knew their true answers. For example: "Do you masturbate?"

This is nothing like that. This is more like asking someone rather they prefer McDonald's or Jack in the Box. I bet you couldn't find any experiment that proves that an anonymous poll would provide more accurate results.

There is no reason for anyone to be embarrassed for answering this question. I suspect that you are spewing this nonsense because you thought that people wouldn't vote for Fischer if people could see who they voted for. Unfortunately for you, anonymity didn't help your cause as Jackman still dominated the poll (especially when you take into consideration the biased votes such as yours and the votes of people who voted against Jackman because they don't like him).
Your argument makes no sense at all. Anonymity does increase peoples' honesty. If people think that their view will be challenged or that they will be insulted (you called anybody voting for Fishcer "biased," proving my point right there), they will be less likely to vote for the minority or the less accepted choice.

Also when people feel pressure to conform, they will more likely conform. If they remain anonymous, they will be much relieved of pressure to conform.
Have you ever heard of the Asch experiment? Experimental subjects were given a "perception test." They were shown several lines and were asked which line is the same as line #1. When there was no pressure to conform, people gave the correct answer 99% of the time. When several confederates (people disguised as subjects who are manipulating the independent variable(s)) gave the same incorrect answer, many people showed discomfort and many of them answered incorrectly to conform to the group. And that was a simple line-matching task.

Looks something like this:

Which line is closest to this line?
___________


A __________________
B ___________
C_________________

Unfortunately for you, anonymity didn't help your cause as Jackman still dominated the poll (especially when you take into consideration the biased votes such as yours and the votes of people who voted against Jackman because they don't like him).
You can't make any assumption about whether or not anonnymity affected the poll results unless you have a control group. I guess you really know nothing about experimentation do you? You can't say that there was no effect when you can't compare two things.

If I can't take into consideration any biased votes, what's the point in polling? I know that almost all of the votes were biased. That was part of the reason I did the poll. I know with great certainty that if I do this poll at the end of the year, then the votes will be MUCH more even. Jackman has on his side, a Calder Trophy just a few months ago, while Fischer has a season-long injury. I also know that even most Redwings fans prefer Jackman over Fischer. I frequent a Redwings forum, and more people voted for Jackman that Fischer.

Jackman

:lol: Where did I get the info that there are so many more Wings fans here? I used a little common sense and made an observation. It's rather obvious.

Oh, so in other words, you pulled it right out of your rear and called it a fact.

Looking at the team boards, I see about 2.9k posts to the Wings board and about 2.4k posts to the Blues board. Yep, it seems perfectly obvious to me that there are 4-5 times more Wings fans around here than Blues fans.

Jackman

Oh, so in other words, you pulled it right out of your rear and called it a fact.

Looking at the team boards, I see about 2.9k posts to the Wings board and about 2.4k posts to the Blues board. Yep, it seems perfectly obvious to me that there are 4-5 times more Wings fans around here than Blues fans.

Yes, it is perfectly obvious to anyone who has been here for any length of time that there are MANY more Wings fans than Blues fans. Unfortunately, you aren't one of those people that have been here for a while and for the sake of the quality of the board, I hope you don't become one.

Yes, it is perfectly obvious to anyone who has been here for any length of time that there are MANY more Wings fans than Blues fans. Unfortunately, you aren't one of those people that have been here for a while and for the sake of the quality of the board, I hope you don't become one.

Right yep, MANY more Wings fans here, I gotcha. There are barely more posts to the Wings board than the Blues board but believe you me, whenever there's a poll pitting a Wings player vs a Blues player, we come out in droves to taint the vote blasted homers we are. Plain as day, anybody can see that. Furthermore, there are no fans at all who can't stand the Wings, nobody angry because they "bought The Cup". Are the clouds shaped like musical notes in your world?

Try making your unsubstantiated claims in all bold and using a bigger font next time, maybe that will make them more credible.

Which line is closest to this line?
___________


A __________________
B ___________
C_________________



I'll vote for B.. just a hunch...

Right yep, MANY more Wings fans here, I gotcha. There are barely more posts to the Wings board than the Blues board but believe you me, whenever there's a poll pitting a Wings player vs a Blues player, we come out in droves to taint the vote blasted homers we are. Plain as day, anybody can see that. Furthermore, there are no fans at all who can't stand the Wings, nobody angry because they "bought The Cup". Are the clouds shaped like musical notes in your world?

Try making your unsubstantiated claims in all bold and using a bigger font next time, maybe that will make them more credible.

There is a reason why no one that has been here for a length of time has refuted my claim.

There is a reason why no one that has been here for a length of time has refuted my claim.
Maybe, but there isn't anybody who has posted in support of your claim.

Jackman

Jackman