The Remedy?

Clint
10-18-2003, 07:56 PM
I was reading one of the other threads about coaches to get fired first, and Keenan's name keeps coming up quite often. Think that's possible? I think not cuz of that big fat contract he signed recently. And would it do us any good? On one hand, it gets tiring seeing the same methods and strategies being utilized on players who do not "work" with it, for lack of a better term.

On the other hand, it really sucks to see both the offense AND the defense not get the job done... bottom line is we are not scoring goals, and the defense is letting in 30 and 40 shot games. Seems Luongo is gonna be the only one earning his pay this year, that is if he survives the season in one peace of mind (HAH! Pun, how creative!!!). Maybe the problem is personnel?

DOES ANYBODY KNOW THE REMEDY TO THE PROBLEM WE HAVE HERE!?!?

Is it a new coach? I'm not sure how I feel about that one.
Is it new personnel? We DO have an awful lot of young guys on D...
Is it patience? I'm sick of that mantra!

pb1300
10-18-2003, 08:09 PM
The remedy is coaching in Atlanta right now. Keenan is a great coach, but he is a mediocre teacher of the game, and thats what this team wins. Keenan is the type of coach for a team like the Rangers. I like what Keenan has done to Olli and some others, but they need to learn the fundamentals of the game and Keenan cant teach them that IMO.

jacksheit
10-18-2003, 09:04 PM
is coaching the problem? or is it that our team has no players that hit, or have grit

patastrophe
10-19-2003, 02:35 AM
is coaching the problem? or is it that our team has no players that hit, or have grit


im going to have to agree with jack on this one. until our grittier kids develop were going to keep seeing this, cause cohen isnt going to approve the funds to trade for some nastier vets who can actually put the puck in.

this is not a new need, and everyone leaguewide knows it, and the only remedy they tried to make so far was signing billy lindsay back.

hows that mellanby for morriset deal looking?

wint
10-19-2003, 06:54 AM
hows that mellanby for morriset deal looking?

Or that Whitney for Adams and salary deal...
Or that Barnes for Wells deal...
Or that Spacek for Eriksson deal...
Or that Dvorak for Vernon deal...
Or that Straka on waivers deal...
Or that Prospal for Johnson deal...
Or that Boyle for a 5th deal...
Or that Simpson for a 2nd deal...
Or that Woolley for ? deal...

There were lots of players in the organization that could have provided the vet leadership/scoring punch/steady defensive presence that the Panthers currently lack. Unfortunately, Bryan Murray traded them all away for little or nothing (except for Simpson). There were other bad deals as well (Burke for Shtalenkov), but truthfully, they were all overshadowed by the one unbelievable Luongo and Jokinen for Kvasha and Parrish deal.

Coolburn
10-19-2003, 07:17 AM
The real remedy for the situation will probably just be time and patience. Yes I think a few players will have to be moved in the meantime or possibly management changes may be necessary. But we're still a young team and its going to take time for certain players to develop fully. Some will take longer to develop than others (see Jokinen). Some of our d-men are still young and make those mistakes that young players make (I've seen a few from each of our guys). Yes the forwards need to be more physical but thats not the only thing that wins games. Its a happy medium that we just don't have....skill and grit. So Keenan and Dudley need to do a re-evaluation of all the organizations talent and see who has what they need and what they don't need. Those that fit into the latter category should be moved for other assets that can fit into the first category. Some of those players won't be available right now to play in the NHL. And thats part of our issue...we have strong organizational prospect depth but they aren't ready now and we need them now.

Clint
10-19-2003, 08:22 AM
The real remedy for the situation will probably just be time and patience. Yes I think a few players will have to be moved in the meantime or possibly management changes may be necessary. But we're still a young team and its going to take time for certain players to develop fully. Some will take longer to develop than others (see Jokinen). Some of our d-men are still young and make those mistakes that young players make (I've seen a few from each of our guys). Yes the forwards need to be more physical but thats not the only thing that wins games. Its a happy medium that we just don't have....skill and grit. So Keenan and Dudley need to do a re-evaluation of all the organizations talent and see who has what they need and what they don't need. Those that fit into the latter category should be moved for other assets that can fit into the first category. Some of those players won't be available right now to play in the NHL. And thats part of our issue...we have strong organizational prospect depth but they aren't ready now and we need them now.

Honestly, I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I'm just anxious to SEE the Panthers do good. Apparently, by the time we're contenders I'm gonna be in about my 4th year in college, and i don't plan on staying down here... that's why I'm sick of that "patience" mantra, even though I know that it is more than likely the way to go.

Clash*
10-19-2003, 10:14 AM
Honestly, I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I'm just anxious to SEE the Panthers do good. Apparently, by the time we're contenders I'm gonna be in about my 4th year in college, and i don't plan on staying down here... that's why I'm sick of that "patience" mantra, even though I know that it is more than likely the way to go.
We could do what Keenan does most the time since he was in New York. Trade everyone for vets for one year, and have no system for the future.

The remedy is patience and a good teachin system in the minors and here, since a lot of these guys would be in the minors in a few other organizations. I don't think Keenan is a teacher anywhere close to how he is a motivator. Maybe at one time he could teach, but times pass, and games' playin styles change (see Don Shula last few years of his career). This team needs someone to teach intangibles and basics of the NHL game, and presently, I don't believe we have a workin relationship within management that's doin that.

Darth Milbury
10-19-2003, 10:19 AM
The real remedy for the situation will probably just be time and patience. Yes I think a few players will have to be moved in the meantime or possibly management changes may be necessary. But we're still a young team and its going to take time for certain players to develop fully. Some will take longer to develop than others (see Jokinen). Some of our d-men are still young and make those mistakes that young players make (I've seen a few from each of our guys). Yes the forwards need to be more physical but thats not the only thing that wins games. Its a happy medium that we just don't have....skill and grit. So Keenan and Dudley need to do a re-evaluation of all the organizations talent and see who has what they need and what they don't need. Those that fit into the latter category should be moved for other assets that can fit into the first category. Some of those players won't be available right now to play in the NHL. And thats part of our issue...we have strong organizational prospect depth but they aren't ready now and we need them now.

I agree.

I watched the game very closely last night. I saw FLA with an energenic group of young forwards, a great young defense, and the best young netminder in the game. Yeah, you gave up a lot of shots. What do you expect with a bunch of 20ish guys on defense? Give it a few years, and these guys are going to very, very good.

pb1300
10-19-2003, 01:16 PM
We could do what Keenan does most the time since he was in New York. Trade everyone for vets for one year, and have no system for the future.

The remedy is patience and a good teachin system in the minors and here, since a lot of these guys would be in the minors in a few other organizations. I don't think Keenan is a teacher anywhere close to how he is a motivator. Maybe at one time he could teach, but times pass, and games' playin styles change (see Don Shula last few years of his career). This team needs someone to teach intangibles and basics of the NHL game, and presently, I don't believe we have a workin relationship within management that's doin that.

That is exactly what I have been saying all along. His motivational tactics are excellent, but his coaching skills and strategies are below average at best, IMO. He is suited for a team like the Rags. We need someone who will teach this kids the NHL game and get them to believe in there talents, something that Keenan is not able to do. Im tired of seeing them so disorganized on the ice, and thats partially caused by bad coaching. I feel this team has always lacked that intangable, and they will continue to struggle until something is done.

Clash*
10-19-2003, 04:06 PM
That is exactly what I have been saying all along. His motivational tactics are excellent, but his coaching skills and strategies are below average at best, IMO. He is suited for a team like the Rags. We need someone who will teach this kids the NHL game and get them to believe in there talents, something that Keenan is not able to do. Im tired of seeing them so disorganized on the ice, and thats partially caused by bad coaching. I feel this team has always lacked that intangable, and they will continue to struggle until something is done.
I actually think we had this quality three times. Neilson (god rest his soul), MacLean (the man is doin too much in Columbus), and believe it or not, Terry Murray. Murray's problem was his brother's and Torrey's medling with the personnel, and a locker room of malcontents, most who were unhappy because of Pavel and his glory hound refusal to play defense. Much like I think Bryan Murray got a real bad rap from Torrey's meddling, I think Terry got a bad rep due to a few selfish players.

PUCKBOY99
10-20-2003, 05:03 AM
I actually think we had this quality three times. Neilson (god rest his soul), MacLean (the man is doin too much in Columbus), and believe it or not, Terry Murray. Murray's problem was his brother's and Torrey's medling with the personnel, and a locker room of malcontents, most who were unhappy because of Pavel and his glory hound refusal to play defense. Much like I think Bryan Murray got a real bad rap from Torrey's meddling, I think Terry got a bad rep due to a few selfish players.

WOW...someone else sticking up for Terry Murray!!! :handclap:
I'm there with ya' on this one, but I'm sure we're the minority.

Here's a thought about the problem: Too many European players. The grittier game is here in N. America & we have too few N. American players. Now I don't wanna upset anyone...I just think the 2 styles are very different: In Europe, it's more finesse; pass-pass-pass the puck ....here it's bang it up & shoot! That's tough to learn when you're brought up on one school of thought.

I'm sure they have it broken down somewhere, but I wonder what teams have the most Euros vs N. American players on their rosters & how they rank???!!! Anyone?????????????

Clash*
10-20-2003, 02:03 PM
WOW...someone else sticking up for Terry Murray!!! :handclap:
I'm there with ya' on this one, but I'm sure we're the minority.

Here's a thought about the problem: Too many European players. The grittier game is here in N. America & we have too few N. American players. Now I don't wanna upset anyone...I just think the 2 styles are very different: In Europe, it's more finesse....here it's bang it up! That's tough to learn when you're brought up on one school of thought.

I'm sure they have it broken down somewhere, but I wonder what teams have the most Euros vs N. American players on their rosters & how they rank???!!! Anyone?????????????
Actually, if you look at today's game, mor Euros are playin a tough, grittier game. Just look at Skrastins, Kasparitis, and Holik to just name a couple. they play a tougher, grittier game, so I think this whole Euros are soft arguement has about as much credibility as the talent pool bein depleted with more countries sendin talent now. The problem with this team is, its needs a teacher who can bond with the kids, and even though I'll give Keenan some time and patience this season, he's not that type of coach.

PUCKBOY99
10-24-2003, 04:32 AM
Actually, if you look at today's game, mor Euros are playin a tough, grittier game. Just look at Skrastins, Kasparitis, and Holik to just name a couple. they play a tougher, grittier game, so I think this whole Euros are soft arguement has about as much credibility as the talent pool bein depleted with more countries sendin talent now. The problem with this team is, its needs a teacher who can bond with the kids, and even though I'll give Keenan some time and patience this season, he's not that type of coach.

Hmm, sounds like someone might agree with me:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/auto/epaper/editions/friday/sports_f389c8ec6024e03a000d.html

I agree the guys you mentioned here are very gritty, but I also think they are the minority. Most Euros aren't gritty...or as gritty as N Americans. And all they wanna do is pass the damned puck!!! Well, that is a generalization...I should say all the Florida Panthers Euros wanna do is pass & try to make the pretty play. Well, look what happened the other night. Two goals scored off of rebounds. I wonder if the lesson will be learned???!!! :dunno: