Are you expecting more from Smoke?

so far this season...i've been a little dissapointed in Smoke's output offensively.

Is he worth what we're paying him and for the length of time he's here for?

Let's discuss...

I understand that he's worried about his groin and all...but he travelled with the team during the western trip, but daaaaaaaaamn...why didn't he stay in Ottawa and work out during the trip instead of leading the coaching staff on with a return?

Let's discuss...

If his point totals are not as high as his best years (60 ish) but he plays the all-around game and pots the important goals and timely plays that we need from our vetrans.
His salary seemed a bit high for this years FA but a bidding war may have upped the the price.
If injuries put him centring one of the top two lines for any extended period of time I would expect him to be producing much more.

He's doing his job as a jack of all trades and master of none. I wish he could convert more of the chances that are handed to him but he's just not that kind of player.

Other Dave

He's doing his job as a jack of all trades and master of none. I wish he could convert more of the chances that are handed to him but he's just not that kind of player.

Other Dave

Yup... jack of all trades and master of none.

In five games he's played all three forward positions... that given, it's a little early to be worried. He has the ability to play all three forward positions, but it doesn't mean it's easy.

I do wish he'd convert on his chances though... even one would be nice. Still, he is a solid player and rarely makes a mistake.

He is a UFA that signed for $2.5 million. That's not superstar money in UFA terms, not by a long shot. We have to keep our perspective. I think Smoke was a replacement for Arvedson. I don't think he will outshine Arvie, but he can play more forward positions and won't turtle in front of guys like Domi. That's an upgrade IMO.

I think his contract is very reasonable for a UFA. And it goes down each year. Easily tradeable if we were pressed.

He has already missed on a few chances. Im not expecting more than Bonk from him. I think of him as more important vet utility guy than core guy.

We havent found a happy home line for Mr versatility yet. We may not need to

The guy was signed as "insurance" should a bigger gun go down during the season, or worse yet the post season. He has the skills and he has the wheels to play anywhere up front without too much of a dropoff in production.
Nice player being asked to take a "secondary" role for the sens. I think he can step it up big time. He does have a 30 goal season for the Bruins in 93-94, decent size too.
He also played with Mario, Jagr and Ronnie Francis in 95, netting 9 points in 18 post season games that season.
solid acquisition... don't "expect" anything other than say ... 40 points.

I think his contract is very reasonable for a UFA. And it goes down each year. Easily tradeable if we were pressed.


He's making $2.65 this year (from NHLPA), and I thought the contract was $10 mil over 4 years. If that's the case, the last year or two on his contract, he will likely be overpaid, and may become a tough contract to move. Hopefully, by that time, he'll have integrated himself well onto this team, and will be a valuable player that the team doesn't mind shelling out the salary for (kinda like Lescyshn).

As for his role right now, like others, I'm not worried. He's a high-end utility player. I think he's such a good fit for this team. One of my biggest fears on this team is that a rash of injuries may occur and eliminate this team's best chance at a cup. With Smoke in the line-up, those fears are alleviated. If injuries happened, Smoke can get dropped into those positions, and avoid having to move other, less flexible players, into positions they are not comfortable in. That in itself, is a huge benefit to this team.

I mentioned before that Muckler probably wanted a team full of complete players who are also good character guys. Arvedson wasn't a Senator player in the aspect that he wasn't particularly fan friendly or popular amongst us fans. He also had a few complaints along the way, poor playoff desire in general and lied about accepting less money to stay on the team. Smolinski, while not being clearly superior to Arvedson as a hockey player, is a more complete talent and loves being a part of the Senators franchise and was willing to accept less than he would have gotten on the open market, as I am 100% positive that Detroit would have signed him as a semi-replacement for Fedorov. Thus, even if he only has a 15 goal 45 point season (keep in mind that he is very inconsistent but over 82 games will always put up at least 3rd line numbers) his still has good value as he adds to the team atmosphere of loyalty and respect to the organization. Additionally, Smolinski is a very good defensive player, thus even when he isn't producing offensively he still has good value as a defense/PK specialist.

The psychological impact it has on the other players is two-fold: a) it tells the players that the team is committed to winning and they are all thus expected to win and (b) it informs the players that it is worth taking a paycut in order to remain with a team like the senators.

Finally, it will entice other possible valuable free-agent/trade additions who will see that being in Ottawa is worth it even for less money.

I mentioned before that Muckler probably wanted a team full of complete players who are also good character guys. Arvedson wasn't a Senator player in the aspect that he wasn't particularly fan friendly or popular amongst us fans. He also had a few complaints along the way, poor playoff desire in general and lied about accepting less money to stay on the team. Smolinski, while not being clearly superior to Arvedson as a hockey player, is a more complete talent and loves being a part of the Senators franchise and was willing to accept less than he would have gotten on the open market, as I am 100% positive that Detroit would have signed him as a semi-replacement for Fedorov. Thus, even if he only has a 15 goal 45 point season (keep in mind that he is very inconsistent but over 82 games will always put up at least 3rd line numbers) his still has good value as he adds to the team atmosphere of loyalty and respect to the organization. Additionally, Smolinski is a very good defensive player, thus even when he isn't producing offensively he still has good value as a defense/PK specialist.

The psychological impact it has on the other players is two-fold: a) it tells the players that the team is committed to winning and they are all thus expected to win and (b) it informs the players that it is worth taking a paycut in order to remain with a team like the senators.

Finally, it will entice other possible valuable free-agent/trade additions who will see that being in Ottawa is worth it even for less money.

The only thing I disagree with is the 'Arvedson is a liar' bit. He didn't lie about it. Arvedson was willing to take a pay cut to remain with the Sens. I believe the amount he was hoping for was $1.2 to $1.3 million, which would have been a substantial cut from his salary last year. The Sens offered him less than $1 million - basically a token offer that wasn't expected to be accepted. Every player will have complaints. there's no question that Arvedson had been the 'pick-on' guy for a number of years. Posters still jokingly blame him now even though he's with the Nucks. :rolleyes:

The only thing I disagree with is the 'Arvedson is a liar' bit. He didn't lie about it. Arvedson was willing to take a pay cut to remain with the Sens. I believe the amount he was hoping for was $1.2 to $1.3 million, which would have been a substantial cut from his salary last year. The Sens offered him less than $1 million - basically a token offer that wasn't expected to be accepted. Every player will have complaints. there's no question that Arvedson had been the 'pick-on' guy for a number of years. Posters still jokingly blame him now even though he's with the Nucks. :rolleyes:

I believe his salary last year was about 1.3 mil (or was it 1.5?) and he mentioned he would take a substantial paycut to remain with the team. Considering that Smoke could have probably gotten at least 3.5 from Detroit or possibly Dallas, he took a larger pay cut. I would have loved to have Arvie instead of Schaefer even if it meant paying an extra .5 mil, but I easily prefer Smoke over Arvedson. I could be wrong, but I got the impression that he wasn't interested at all in even negotiating a pay cut.

I believe his salary last year was about 1.3 mil (or was it 1.5?) and he mentioned he would take a substantial paycut to remain with the team. Considering that Smoke could have probably gotten at least 3.5 from Detroit or possibly Dallas, he took a larger pay cut. I would have loved to have Arvie instead of Schaefer even if it meant paying an extra .5 mil, but I easily prefer Smoke over Arvedson. I could be wrong, but I got the impression that he wasn't interested at all in even negotiating a pay cut.

His salary was $1.65 mil. I don't know what he was asking for, but from the impression that I got, the Sens were not interested at all in keeping him. He was simply a guy that the organization outgrew.

As for Smolinski, I'm not sure that he would have gotten $3.5 mil over the same length of time that he got his contract in Ottawa for. Perhaps he could, but it wouldn't suprise me if part of his motivations for signing with the Sens before hitting the UFA market was that he was a little hesitant to test the waters a year away from a potential lockout. A lot of wierd things have happened this off-season, and perhaps Smolinksi didn't want to end-up with all the uncertainty that could happen. Detroit may have offered him a contract, but if they didn't, there wouldn't necessarily be a multitude of teams looking for his services.

I'm glad he signed with Ottawa, but we shouldn't attribute it fully as an endorsement of this team. He received a nice contract and some stability in return in the deal.

I believe his salary last year was about 1.3 mil (or was it 1.5?) and he mentioned he would take a substantial paycut to remain with the team. Considering that Smoke could have probably gotten at least 3.5 from Detroit or possibly Dallas, he took a larger pay cut. I would have loved to have Arvie instead of Schaefer even if it meant paying an extra .5 mil, but I easily prefer Smoke over Arvedson. I could be wrong, but I got the impression that he wasn't interested at all in even negotiating a pay cut.

A decrease of $350,000 is substantial in payroll terms. I don't believe Arvie was after the money ever. His top priority always seemed to be his family, and he made it very clear that he wanted a city that his family would find comfortable. I think that's why he ended up in Vancouver. It's common knowledge that the Rangers wanted him and had offerred over $2 million. I just don't see the money being a huge selling point for Arvie, but that doesn't mean he'll take the $800,000 that the Sens put on the table. A substantial paycut is one thing; halving his salary is another. We always hear about hockey players who stick around past forty. Normally, though, they retire mid-to-upper thirties. That being said, Arvie's got 5 to 8 years to earn as much as possible. He'd be stupid to take a cut that big, especially since he's worth more than that. It was the Sens that weren't interested at all in keeping him. Doesn't matter though. I think the Sens are better off without him a tthis point and I think he's better off with the Nucks. They need him. He also fits in better in their lockerroom and Vancouver is another good city for a family. It was a win-win situation all the way around.

As for Schaefer, I actually prefer him over Arvie. He needs to shoot more, but from what I can see, he causes more problems for the opposing teams' defence than Arvie ever did and he's excellent along the boards. He's also younger and I think Sens fans can look forward to seeing him develop into an even better player.

I agree with your statements about Smolinski, although the pulse I hit upon was that both the Avs and the Wings had wanted Smolinski. Inf act, a recent article printed that the Avs' GM called Muckler up right after he was traded to the Sens in the hope that Muckler would trade Smoke onto Colorado last year for the playoff run. I'm not sure he would have gotten $3.5, but $3 million for a shorter term is possible. I think Smolinski does like Ottawa and I think he was honestly impressed with the Sens when he got here. I think he now considers himself one of them which is very important. In any event, I'm happy with him and his play. He's a solid, quality player that adds versatility and depth. it was a great addition for the Sens.

Where did this 'Arvie pay cut' rumor start and why won't it die? The only thing I read about was that Arvedson was willing to TAKE LESS MONEY than he would get on the open market to play for the Sens, which doesn't necessarily translate to a pay cut.

Other Dave