Trade for Umberger?

Krom
10-19-2003, 06:10 AM
He is unsigned and asking for a trade. Pens can use all the good PR they can get. Just a thought. I'll let you guys work out the specifics.

The Tang
10-19-2003, 06:14 AM
well i would like to have him, but its not like were dying to get a pittsburgh kid on the team anymore. is there anyhting in particluar vancouver is seeking/needs so we can gauge fair value?

Koltsov71
10-19-2003, 06:17 AM
Doesn't matter much to me.

Robert Paulson*
10-19-2003, 06:46 AM
I think we've had a lot of these same threads start in the last month..

Really doesn't matter to me, I like our team for now. Well, if we got to trade Holzinger, I'm all for it. :rolly:

Krom
10-19-2003, 06:56 AM
I think we've had a lot of these same threads start in the last month..

Really doesn't matter to me, I like our team for now. Well, if we got to trade Holzinger, I'm all for it. :rolly:

Sorry, I din't know this subject was being discussed on the other boards.

http://www.canada.com/search/story.aspx?id=c9d21ea0-eafb-4ca8-a90f-fb1541118e56

The Straka proposal might have merit around December/January.

Evilo
10-19-2003, 06:59 AM
A second round pick is all I would give right now.

GoPenguins
10-19-2003, 08:03 AM
A second round pick is all I would give right now.

I would be ironic if they accepted a 2nd round pick for Umberger, as we happen to have their 2nd from the Hedberg trade. This would amount to trading Hedberg for Umberger.

Perhaps we could get them to take Holzinger too :)

Robert Paulson*
10-19-2003, 08:12 AM
Perhaps we could get them to take Holzinger too :)

I would be all for that one :)

Unholy Diver
10-19-2003, 09:51 AM
How about Bergavin and a 4th rounder?

seems fair to me

AEKaki
10-19-2003, 11:14 AM
How about Bergavin and a 4th rounder?

seems fair to me


I am sure Bergevin has told Mario and CP that he came to retire in Pittsburgh.

I agree with Scarface.
We can get him for cheap.

Reign Nateo
10-19-2003, 11:37 AM
Umberger is underrated.

He played on a team with zero offensive support, and was among the leaders in scoring for the past 2 seasons. Ohio state had really nothing to line him up with until Kesler. I think this kid will score at the NHL level, I have only see him play once and that was enough. Big, smooth, skilled and has great offensive instincts. I would call him a better prospect that Kris Beech (who I have had extensive scouting time for) I don't think you could pry him away very cheaply, a 2nd round pick would probably be fair, I think that would be great for RJ, he is a huge Lemieux fan and I think you guys would be very pleasantly surprised with Umberger. Having said that, I do not want him traded, he is our best offensive prospect and the only one with star potential IMO, it's just too bad no one knows it yet.

Jacob
10-19-2003, 11:40 AM
I agree with that guy.^^

But, why trade for him? Isn't he going to be a UFA at season's end? Since we're not exactly desperate for 22 year old centerman, we can just hold out and see if he'll wanna play for his home team.

Wingboy2999
10-19-2003, 11:44 AM
I think it would be a good move but, of course, matters if at what price. If you can get him cheap, then definetely go for it. From what I have heard, he can turn into some type of PF, something any team wants.

AEKaki
10-19-2003, 11:44 AM
I agree with that guy.^^

But, why trade for him? Isn't he going to be a UFA at season's end? Since we're not exactly desperate for 22 year old centerman, we can just hold out and see if he'll wanna play for his home team.


very possible scenario Jacobv.

Wingboy2999
10-19-2003, 11:46 AM
One other thing he would be well-advised to work on is his physical play. For someone with such good size, Umberger is not overly physical. If he were to add this element to his game, and put on some weight, we might see the second-coming of Todd Bertuzzi, although probably less skilled.

Second coming of Bertuzzi, but less skilled. Go for it! You could always use a power forward, might even be motivated being back home.

missionhockey21
10-19-2003, 02:58 PM
I wouldnt give up too much, but I wouldnt mind to get Umberger.

Mr. Canucklehead
10-19-2003, 06:03 PM
Umberger isn't playing this year; he neglected to return to school. He either signs with an NHL team, or he can sign in Europe, or he can not play at all. He's chosen the latter option to light a fire under Canucks management--if they don't sign him or move him, he leaves for nothing at year end.

Kris Beech and Martin Straka would certainly look nice on the Canucks. Would Umberger be able to fetch either of them? He's 21 years old I believe, and he was a finalist for the Hobey Baker last year.

~Canucklehead~

DJ Spinoza
10-19-2003, 06:48 PM
I don't think anyone will trade for him, because they can just try to sign him after the season and not give up anything.

The Pucks
10-19-2003, 07:02 PM
The Umberger situation is a bit more complicated than most of you let on. Yes, he is sitting at this point, but the problem for him is he can only sign with Vancouver. If he goes to Europe or plays in the minors, he becomes a defected player (NCAA clause) and the Canucks retain his rights indefinatly.

For him to become a UFA, he must sit out the entire season. But here is the kicker, the CBA, as we all know, is up after this season. If RJ does sit out the season, he will also have to sit out whatever length of time it takes to get the CBA finished. That is what Burke is using for leverage. Burke is also a bit miffed that RJ came out early, he wanted him to play his full 4 years at Ohio and go on the books next season.

They are not very far apart in negotiations, about 200 grand. At this point it is Burkes stubornes against RJ's pride. Burke will not let him become a UFA, if they can not come to an agreement by around Xmas, I think you will see RJ dealt, most likely at the deadline for a player who will help Vancouver make a run.

Der Schweinehund
10-20-2003, 03:48 AM
The long awaited 'dream' of having a Pittsburgh born and bred hockey player play for the Pens is now achieved with Malone being on the roster.

Thus I see no reason to bring in Umberger, the Pittsburgh boy. However, as a solid hockey prospect, I would bring him in. Vancouver fans are naturally going to be flipping proposals to the Pens consistently until the situation is settled in the belief that the Pens will pay greater for Umberger. I wouldn't be jumping through hoops to try to get him personally - would pay **at maximum** a 2nd rounder to get him.

As a note about Straka, I think it's very premature to start anticipating anything significant in return for him - even a prospect like Umberger. History is not on the Pens side and the events of this summer with respect to signings and pay cuts do not lead me to believe that there is any type of market for a $4.5-million player who has had no success anywhere but Pittsburgh - especially since he is unlucky (optimistic assessment) or injury-prone (pessimistic assessment).

The Pucks
10-20-2003, 04:36 AM
One more point that has not been brought up, with Burkes history, if Umberger is dealt, Pittsburg would be the last place he would send him. If Brian has even the slightest thought that RJ would want to go to Pitts, you can rest assured that he would deal him elsewhere.

When it comes to contract negotiations, especially with younger guys, Brian is a true hard***.

Wingboy2999
10-20-2003, 04:14 PM
I think if anything involving Straka for a package of Umberger and others came, Burke would swallow his pride and take it. Not saying it will happen. But if the Pens were to give up Straka, what kind of package would be needed?

Allen, Umberger and a 3rd
for
Straka

Would that work at all?

The Pucks
10-21-2003, 03:17 PM
I hate burke, i've seen him downtown a few times and i've told him how i felt about him, he just stares like an idiot. I say he's fair game to do that to because if you go on live tv and say stupid **** half the time, your free game for open criticism.

Can't argue with his success, took a team that was losing around 20 million a season and hadn't made the playoffs in a few years, to a cup contender who made 10 million profit last year. One hell of a job.

Der Schweinehund
10-22-2003, 03:36 AM
Hasn't made a bunch of trades really. He just came in opened his lousy mouth and has been on a rant since his hiring.

It was just the hiring of Crawford and the maturing of some players for the team to get to the top again, that was gonna happen either way, every vancouverite knew that was coming.

He hasn't made a lot of blockbusters, but certainly many of his tinkering moves have proven to be very effective - recent notables like Hedberg, Malik, Salo, and May especially.

Additionally, there are many times non-trades are just as effective as trades. I seem to recall a couple of seasons ago that Morrison's head was on the media trade-block.

His loyalty to Cloutier (to me) has always been Burke's biggest disappointment. I thought surely that Cujo was a perfect fit there this off season.

I like Burke - I like his vocality. I am also biased in that most of the best trash talking that comes out of his mouth seems to be directed at the Maple Leafs. :D

Der Schweinehund
10-22-2003, 03:49 AM
And just a note about my anti-Maple Leafs stance too (as people like Kung Fu have noticed.)

Yesterday, a prime example of what is wrong with Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment (ownership holding company for Leafs and Raptors) came to light.

Maple Leaf Gardens is being sold by MLSE to Loblaw's Inc - the largest Canadian grocery chain - so that it can be gutted and turned into a grocery store. MLSE has stated publicly that their prime objective was to sell MLG to a group/person with the intent to use and maintain it as a hockey facility. MLSE said they could not find a "hockey fit" in ownership for MLG so it had to resort to selling it for a non hockey-related use. This is a disgraceful lie. Eugene Melnyk, owner of the Senators and OHL Toronto St. Mike's Majors offered to buy MLG and move the Majors there, in addition to renovating it into a 12,000 seat multi-use facility. MLSE said no, based on the fact then that it becomes a competing venue for the Air Canada Center - and then prompted by saying it would have no problem provided the seats were kept to about 5000 or less. That is BS considering a Hong Kong condo developer was going to buy it and potentially keep a 7,500 seat ice rink in there (at maximum) - and there was no problem with MLSE at that point.

While we might rail on the Pens ownership as well as real estate management, they are nothing like the disgrace called MLSE - we must be virtuous in that regard.

MLSE could not come up with a creative idea to maintain the hockey heritage and lied in the process. For instance, how about orchestrating a swap of real-estate with the current HHOF site - which, quite frankly, is more valuable real-estate. Then move the HHOF into MLG, keeping 5000-7000 seats where old-timer games, exhibitions, ice rentals could be held. How about even including the ability to skate on legendary, original-six ice, included with your $12.00 admission to the HHOF?

Sorry - excuse my non-Pen related rant. It is just the timing of this, and I think as hockey fans, we should all be rather outraged at this injustice. :rant:

SaintRon
10-22-2003, 08:39 AM
Maple Leaf Gardens is being sold by MLSE to Loblaw's Inc - the largest Canadian grocery chain - so that it can be gutted and turned into a grocery store.

Having been to the hallowed grounds of MLG, I couldn't believe my eyes when I read this story. Have they lost their minds!!! Younge street will never be the same on a Saturday night.

I can see it now. While looking at old Leafs stuff jammed into a corner of the store, we can now listen to, "Cleanup on aisle 2!" "price check, register 5."

Cancel my reservations at the Carelton!

SaintRon