GDT Sabres at Canucks(7:00 pm)Monday

TheBrew
10-19-2003, 02:26 PM
TEAM COMPARISON
The number in parentheses indicates the team's NHL rank.
Key: Sabres Canucks

Avg. Goals
1.40 (25) 2.60 (12)

Avg. Shots
20.2 (28) 27.8 (11)

Shooting %
6.9 (22) 9.4 (14)

Shutouts
1 (12) 1 (8)

Power Play Ops.
26 (8) 28 (6)

Times Short-handed
31 (24) 25 (18)

Avg. PIM
21.8 (27) 18.0 (17)

GAA
3.00 (27) 1.80 (8)

Avg. Shots Against
24.8 (14) 22.4 (4)

Save Percentage
.879 (29) .920 (10)

Shutouts Against
2 (30) 0 (7)

Power Play %
11.5 (22) 10.7 (24)

Pen. Killing %
83.9 (14) 80.0 (22)



SABRES STATISTICAL LEADERS
Points C. Drury 3
Goals M. Satan 2
Assists C. Drury 2
Penalty Minutes A. Peters 24
+/- R. Fitzpatrick 2
Wins M. Noronen 1
GAA M. Biron 3.05
Save % M. Biron .887
Complete Team Statistics | Roster


CANUCKS STATISTICAL LEADERS
Points E. Jovanovski 4
Goals M. Cooke 2
Assists E. Jovanovski 4
Penalty Minutes E. Jovanovski 27
+/- M. Malik 5
Wins J. Hedberg 1
GAA J. Hedberg 0.97
Save % J. Hedberg .938
Complete Team Statistics | Roster


sould be a good game Canucks take it 4-1

Reign Nateo
10-19-2003, 02:34 PM
Well the Canucks really need to kickstart their offence and their season. No better way to do it than come of a tough road trip getting 1 of a possible 6 points, then to come home to the garage and play Buffalo.

Although they are very beatable, Buffalo is a tough team to play, they work hard, have solid goaltending and have guys like Kotalik, Drury, Satan, etc that can put the puck in the net. They are coming off a hard fought win over the Flames...

Vancouver 5

Buffalo 3

Probably too many goals, but I'll go with it. Bertuzzi has a big game.

SedinFan*
10-19-2003, 02:36 PM
Hedberg hopefully will get the start.

Bertuzzi should be able to easily handle the small(physically) defense Buffalo has. Other than McKee there's no one on the team that has a chance to handle Bertuzzi defensively.

Waveburner
10-19-2003, 03:01 PM
More than one goal is needed from the big line. They get 75% of the PP time-its time to start putting that to use!

Registering more than 5 shots through 2 periods would be good as well ;)

Thalia
10-19-2003, 03:03 PM
Another 2-2 tie. :rolleyes:

Blane Youngblood
10-19-2003, 03:17 PM
New GDT maker = new result!

A 5-0 Vancouver Win.

H.Sedin, King, Chubarov, Malik, Naslund

Cloutier SO

ehc73
10-19-2003, 06:55 PM
Another 2-2 tie. :rolleyes:

Are you Nalyd under another name? ;)

xtra
10-19-2003, 07:20 PM
BOOOO


Mizral shoudl have started the GDT.

now we are jinxed for life.

IceMelter
10-19-2003, 08:09 PM
now we are jinxed for life.

Especially when an oiler fan makes the thread :rolly:

Thalia
10-19-2003, 08:15 PM
BOOOO


Mizral shoudl have started the GDT.

now we are jinxed for life.
Well maybe if Miz was a little faster posting his 'sure win' GDT's... the rest of wouldn't have to post our losing ones. :joker:

nucks2001
10-19-2003, 08:56 PM
Thalia suuuure reminds me of someone :rolly:

incawg
10-19-2003, 09:02 PM
8-0 canucks.

oh why not...the last time I predicted this score we won :D

we are due for an offensive breakout game though. I just want to hear tommy yell "THE FLOODGATES HAVE OPENED!"

TheCustodian
10-20-2003, 05:15 AM
Hey all! Longtime reader, first time poster. See some people getting a bit discouraged about our record, but the entire league seems a little wonky as it usual does this early in the season (with teams like NJ and Colorado having similar problems --- .500 records).

My take on the season so far:

-Defensively I think we're better then last season and it shows on the backcheck and especially the PK where we have endless options as far as defensive special teams forwards go. Ohlund has looked almost godlike and Sopel (though still up to a few of his old tricks) seems to have rounded his game off a bit better. Jovo currently leads the team in points (which I suppose is a bad thing) and overall I've been very happy with the play of our defensive core.
-Offensively we've had problems clicking and the big line is showing a bit of rust as neither Naslund or Bertuzzi has looked overly dominant, though I stress how much better their defensive games have looked. Add on to that the incapadability of our PP units and we have a bit of a problem. Our defensive improvements are still winning us games and keeping us close in the remainder, which I find very encouraging.
-As far as goaltending goes, I don't have too many complaints regarding either of our starters. Cloutier looked a bit sketchy at times in the Detroit game, though held us in there in the end...the penalty in the Columbus match was a bit more discouraging, but hopefully he was just having a bad night. Hedberg has looked awesome, though the games he's played in haven't featured as many shots. His ability to play the puck aids the Canucks defensively, by negating longer outlet passes, the defenseman can stand farther up the boards and breakout quicker. It shows each time he plays, it helps regularly and especially on our PK, which I think has looked pretty solid so far this year.

What I'd like to see tonight:

-Hedberg starting.
I know Cloutier will most likely ice the anthems tonight, but I'd really like to see us stick with Johan as he is thus far, undefeated and has looked calm, collected and positionally unbeatable in the majority of situations in which he's played. I would really like to see him in a more open game with a few more shots, just to see if he's the type of goalie who only gets better with the more work he has a night. If that's the case, we might have a gem on our hands as he hasn't shown the tendency to get distracted on slow nights like Cloutier has in the past (and let in too many goals on too few shots). I would give Cloutier the St. Louis game on Wednesday as he played excellent against them in the first round and perhaps that would give him a taste of the form we saw when he looked solid then.

-A re-evaluation of our PP units.
Something isn't clicking since last year, and I'm not sure if it's the lack of Henrik at centre or the more varied use of point men Crow has tried thus far. Our PP was stellar at points last season and as a coach it's his job to discover what created such dominant performances and alter the units to meet such criteria. So far we've had trouble getting shots through and Bert hasn't been nearly as effective as a result. Morrison has looked to be having a bit of trouble with the puck and Naslund can't seem to hit the net regularly enough.

-A strong offensive game from the Sedin/Sedin/King line.
They've looked good, but haven't had the 'breakout air' about them quite yet. Given the rest of the team isn't producing exceptionally offensively either, so it could be more of an overall issue, but tonight I'd really like to see each of the guys on this line put up a multi-point performance as a Buffalo team that is a bit weak in their own end -- and quite weak against the Sedins strong cycling and slot-puck movement.

-Another strong, physical game from Ohlund.
What can I say? Looks the guy is finally back to form after that eye injury and is looking to turn into the force we all expected him to. His offensive game looks to be improving again and he has been our most physical defenseman in most games thus far. Keep it up!

-Allen Starting. Allen getting nasty.
It sounds bad, but really --- I want this guy to get in there and muck it up hard. We need a defenseman who makes forwards fear the front of the net and who has guys looking over their shoulders in our zone. I think Allen has the ability to be this guy (ie/ cheap man's Hatcher), but he's looked tentative and nervous in the games he's played so far. Someone needs to light a fire under his butt and get this guy going.

-Linden on the wing.
The guy is awesome on draws, but lets be honest (as much as we love him), he isn't as multipurpose as Crow seems to think he is. His offensive instincts and net-prowess are hurt when he's at centre and I think the team would be better overall if he was on the wing. I'm at a loss as to how we could do it without bringing up auxilary centre's, so I assume Linden will be back on the third line in that role. But it is something I'd 'like' to see.

I'm rambling on (you'll learn I tend to do that :) ), and there are other things I could mention, but those are the one's I've noticed the most thus far.

Prediction: 4-1 Canucks

Van Goals: Bertuzzi (2), D.Sedin*, King*

*Henrik with 3 assists, one on each of his linemates goals and one on a Bertuzzi PP goal. Daniel and King go 1 and 1, each assisting on the other's goal.

Buff Goal: Drury

Thalia
10-20-2003, 05:30 AM
Hey all! Longtime reader, first time poster. See some people getting a bit discouraged about our record, but the entire league seems a little wonky as it usual does this early in the season (with teams like NJ and Colorado having similar problems --- .500 records).

My take on the season so far:

-Defensively I think we're better then last season and it shows on the backcheck and especially the PK where we have endless options as far as defensive special teams forwards go. Ohlund has looked almost godlike and Sopel (though still up to a few of his old tricks) seems to have rounded his game off a bit better. Jovo currently leads the team in points (which I suppose is a bad thing) and overall I've been very happy with the play of our defensive core.
-Offensively we've had problems clicking and the big line is showing a bit of rust as neither Naslund or Bertuzzi has looked overly dominant, though I stress how much better their defensive games have looked. Add on to that the incapadability of our PP units and we have a bit of a problem. Our defensive improvements are still winning us games and keeping us close in the remainder, which I find very encouraging.
-As far as goaltending goes, I don't have too many complaints regarding either of our starters. Cloutier looked a bit sketchy at times in the Detroit game, though held us in there in the end...the penalty in the Columbus match was a bit more discouraging, but hopefully he was just having a bad night. Hedberg has looked awesome, though the games he's played in haven't featured as many shots. His ability to play the puck aids the Canucks defensively, by negating longer outlet passes, the defenseman can stand farther up the boards and breakout quicker. It shows each time he plays, it helps regularly and especially on our PK, which I think has looked pretty solid so far this year.

What I'd like to see tonight:

-Hedberg starting.
I know Cloutier will most likely ice the anthems tonight, but I'd really like to see us stick with Johan as he is thus far, undefeated and has looked calm, collected and positionally unbeatable in the majority of situations in which he's played. I would really like to see him in a more open game with a few more shots, just to see if he's the type of goalie who only gets better with the more work he has a night. If that's the case, we might have a gem on our hands as he hasn't shown the tendency to get distracted on slow nights like Cloutier has in the past (and let in too many goals on too few shots). I would give Cloutier the St. Louis game on Wednesday as he played excellent against them in the first round and perhaps that would give him a taste of the form we saw when he looked solid then.

-A re-evaluation of our PP units.
Something isn't clicking since last year, and I'm not sure if it's the lack of Henrik at centre or the more varied use of point men Crow has tried thus far. Our PP was stellar at points last season and as a coach it's his job to discover what created such dominant performances and alter the units to meet such criteria. So far we've had trouble getting shots through and Bert hasn't been nearly as effective as a result. Morrison has looked to be having a bit of trouble with the puck and Naslund can't seem to hit the net regularly enough.

-A strong offensive game from the Sedin/Sedin/King line.
They've looked good, but haven't had the 'breakout air' about them quite yet. Given the rest of the team isn't producing exceptionally offensively either, so it could be more of an overall issue, but tonight I'd really like to see each of the guys on this line put up a multi-point performance as a Buffalo team that is a bit weak in their own end -- and quite weak against the Sedins strong cycling and slot-puck movement.

-Another strong, physical game from Ohlund.
What can I say? Looks the guy is finally back to form after that eye injury and is looking to turn into the force we all expected him to. His offensive game looks to be improving again and he has been our most physical defenseman in most games thus far. Keep it up!

-Allen Starting. Allen getting nasty.
It sounds bad, but really --- I want this guy to get in there and muck it up hard. We need a defenseman who makes forwards fear the front of the net and who has guys looking over their shoulders in our zone. I think Allen has the ability to be this guy (ie/ cheap man's Hatcher), but he's looked tentative and nervous in the games he's played so far. Someone needs to light a fire under his butt and get this guy going.

-Linden on the wing.
The guy is awesome on draws, but lets be honest (as much as we love him), he isn't as multipurpose as Crow seems to think he is. His offensive instincts and net-prowess are hurt when he's at centre and I think the team would be better overall if he was on the wing. I'm at a loss as to how we could do it without bringing up auxilary centre's, so I assume Linden will be back on the third line in that role. But it is something I'd 'like' to see.

I'm rambling on (you'll learn I tend to do that :) ), and there are other things I could mention, but those are the one's I've noticed the most thus far.

Prediction: 4-1 Canucks

Van Goals: Bertuzzi (2), D.Sedin*, King*

*Henrik with 3 assists, one on each of his linemates goals and one on a Bertuzzi PP goal. Daniel and King go 1 and 1, each assisting on the other's goal.

Buff Goal: Drury
Excellent post!

I see you've really got high expectations for Henrik, me too, not necessarily this game (although that would be nice) but for this season in general.

kmad
10-20-2003, 10:52 AM
I'm predicting 3-1 Canucks, just because.

Lessard Fretter
10-20-2003, 10:53 AM
Hedberg is a Sabre killer - so to speak. He's had his best games with the Pens against that team, both in the playoffs years back and in the regular season.

Check these career stats out...

Hedberg vs Sabres:

8 GP (7 GS) 6-1-1 1.51 GAA .948 SV% 1 SO

Also, here Cloutier's stats vs Sabres:

7 GP (7 GS) 2-4-1 2.54 GAA .912 SV%
--------

The choice is obvious! I hope Crawford is fair and gives Hedberg this game because I have no doubt that he'll shine as always against this team.

MVP
10-20-2003, 11:26 AM
Hedberg is a Sabre killer - so to speak. He's had his best games with the Pens against that team, both in the playoffs years back and in the regular season.

Check these career stats out...

Hedberg vs Sabres:

8 GP (7 GS) 6-1-1 1.51 GAA .948 SV% 1 SO

Also, here Cloutier's stats vs Sabres:

7 GP (7 GS) 2-4-1 2.54 GAA .912 SV%
--------

The choice is obvious! I hope Crawford is fair and gives Hedberg this game because I have no doubt that he'll shine as always against this team.


According to CKNW, Cloutier will be the starter tonight, however, i agree with you that Crawford should be more fair as far as handling his goalies starting situation. It is somewhat shameless to put Cloutier in there while Hedberg is still unbeaten in the season and has more experience against the Sabres. i think ultimately that this is all a decision that Brian Burke made due to the fact that he gave 2.5 millions $ this summer to Cloutier and it was decided that instead of a open competition where both goalies are going to have their shot at winning the job such as it is in Islanders with Dipietro and Snow, or the Minnisota with Manny and Roloson. The Canucks are having a situation where it is Cloutier's job to lose, in fact the history show that Cloutier never play well with someone pushing him, he did not perform well with Kevin Weekes pushing him in TB, he did not perform well with Bob pushing him in the first season as a Canucks. In fact, over the last couple years where the Backups were no threat to him, Cloutier had performed excellent well in the regular season.


i think the Canucks have mishandling the Cloutier situation and as a result is setting Cloutier to failure. By placing Hedberg to play once a week and probably against a weaker team, you are placing Hedberg in a scenario where he can excess on as far as performance and statistic, which will ultimately be the conflict between Cloutier and Hedberg, because you might have a backup which has statistic which will be much better than the starter.

For example, mid way through the season you at 60 games mark. You have the following scenario.

Cloutier 15 Wins 15 loses 5 ties 2.45GAA SA% 900
Hedberg 12 Wins 8 loses 5 ties 2.00GAA SA% 920

Those statistics are base on my assumption that Hedberg willl get lesser competition and more well rested.

Under such scenario you will have a controversy on your hand, where Hedberg will get more public and media support.

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 12:18 PM
[QUOTE=MVP] It is somewhat shameless to put Cloutier in there while Hedberg is still unbeaten in the season and has more experience against the Sabres.

Yup, sure is interesting with Danny in net

quat
10-20-2003, 12:24 PM
According to CKNW, Cloutier will be the starter tonight, however, i agree with you that Crawford should be more fair as far as handling his goalies starting situation. It is somewhat shameless to put Cloutier in there while Hedberg is still unbeaten in the season and has more experience against the Sabres. i think ultimately that this is all a decision that Brian Burke made due to the fact that he gave 2.5 millions $ this summer to Cloutier and it was decided that instead of a open competition where both goalies are going to have their shot at winning the job such as it is in Islanders with Dipietro and Snow, or the Minnisota with Manny and Roloson. The Canucks are having a situation where it is Cloutier's job to lose, in fact the history show that Cloutier never play well with someone pushing him, he did not perform well with Kevin Weekes pushing him in TB, he did not perform well with Bob pushing him in the first season as a Canucks. In fact, over the last couple years where the Backups were no threat to him, Cloutier had performed excellent well in the regular season.


i think the Canucks have mishandling the Cloutier situation and as a result is setting Cloutier to failure. By placing Hedberg to play once a week and probably against a weaker team, you are placing Hedberg in a scenario where he can excess on as far as performance and statistic, which will ultimately be the conflict between Cloutier and Hedberg, because you might have a backup which has statistic which will be much better than the starter.

For example, mid way through the season you at 60 games mark. You have the following scenario.

Cloutier 15 Wins 15 loses 5 ties 2.45GAA SA% 900
Hedberg 12 Wins 8 loses 5 ties 2.00GAA SA% 920

Those statistics are base on my assumption that Hedberg willl get lesser competition and more well rested.

Under such scenario you will have a controversy on your hand, where Hedberg will get more public and media support.

Weaker teams? The Blue Jackets hadn't shown that they were stronger than the Wild, and I forget... which team is the power house in Alta? :D

If Cloutier hadn't had a couple of mind farts in those two games, there would be no real debate at this juncture, but he has and so it goes. Hedberg has been given no special treatment, and it's just like the Canucks have stated. Cloutier will play less games this year so he's not burned out or injured. It's up to him to play as well as he can. If he craps out for a quarter of the season, and the back up shows he can handle the load, then it's no mystery who gets to continue playing.

Reign Nateo
10-20-2003, 12:38 PM
Hedberg is a Sabre killer - so to speak. He's had his best games with the Pens against that team, both in the playoffs years back and in the regular season.

Check these career stats out...

Hedberg vs Sabres:

8 GP (7 GS) 6-1-1 1.51 GAA .948 SV% 1 SO

Also, here Cloutier's stats vs Sabres:

7 GP (7 GS) 2-4-1 2.54 GAA .912 SV%
--------

The choice is obvious! I hope Crawford is fair and gives Hedberg this game because I have no doubt that he'll shine as always against this team.

Those are actually pretty good numbers by Cloutier's standards...

imyourhuckleberry
10-20-2003, 12:39 PM
any possiblity of the nucks trading Cloutier this year if Hedberg solidifies his spot? I think the sabres would love to trade for him with biron or noronen and a young d-man or forward as we seem to have a surplus of each. Cloutier would no doubt be our number 1 starter, any possiblity or am i just wishful thinking?

MVP
10-20-2003, 12:45 PM
any possiblity of the nucks trading Cloutier this year if Hedberg solidifies his spot? I think the sabres would love to trade for him with biron or noronen and a young d-man or forward as we seem to have a surplus of each. Cloutier would no doubt be our number 1 starter, any possiblity or am i just wishful thinking?


Ryan Miller for Cloutier? :o

imyourhuckleberry
10-20-2003, 01:15 PM
Ryan Miller for Cloutier? :o


is that what you would want? im not sure the sabres would trade him atleast this year because of how his contract works were he can go from buffalo to rochester without hassle. they have been looking to move either noronen or biron and a young defenseman and winger because we have so many. they would IMO trade a goalie, winger/dman, and future draft pick for a goalie like cloutier, but it all depends on how the nucks are depth wise with young talent, they seem to be fine so i doubt they would even consider moving cloutie

Reign Nateo
10-20-2003, 01:20 PM
Cloutier and Sopel for Kotalik and Noronen and Burkie I'll drive him to the airport.

MVP
10-20-2003, 01:26 PM
is that what you would want? im not sure the sabres would trade him atleast this year because of how his contract works were he can go from buffalo to rochester without hassle. they have been looking to move either noronen or biron and a young defenseman and winger because we have so many. they would IMO trade a goalie, winger/dman, and future draft pick for a goalie like cloutier, but it all depends on how the nucks are depth wise with young talent, they seem to be fine so i doubt they would even consider moving cloutie


Jay Mckee would be great for the Canucks, i acknowledge that Hedberg could and might become Canucks #1 goalie can some point this season, but trading Cloutier this season is highly unlikely due the fact that Hedberg will be UFA after this year. And assuming that Burke completely given up on Cloutier, i will speculate that Burke will be looking for some young goalie prospect for him in order to save Cloutier salary and use it on re-signing Hedberg (again assuming he really convince everyone that he is #1 goalie), but i doubt the management would be totally convince until they see a goalie that can actually perform in the playoff, which is why i don't think either Cloutier will get dealt IF he get dealt, until the summer.

As far as the Buffalo standpoint, i don't understand because i think Biron is almost the same quality as Cloutier, i really don't see Cloutier being much of a upgrade. On the other hand, if Mckee is available on Buffalo, i am sure Canucks will be interested especailly with the plays of Sopel recently. i am not sure what Buffalo would near, but Canucks do have a lot of decent forward prospects in the system and would trade draft pick since they are on win now mode.

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 02:07 PM
As far as the Buffalo standpoint, i don't under either because i think Biron is almost the same quality as Cloutier, i really don't see Cloutier being much of a upgrade. On the other hand, if Mckee is available on Buffalo, i am sure Canucks will be interested especailly with the plays of Sopel recently. i am not sure what Buffalo would near, but Canucks do have a lot of decent forward prospects in the system and would trade draft pick since they are on win now mode.

Biron, McKee for Cloutier and Sopel? Would this actually work....I actually like this deal for the Canucks. Biron, in my mind, is a very good young goalie.....this guy is not even at his peak yet.

MVP
10-20-2003, 02:14 PM
Biron, McKee for Cloutier and Sopel? Would this actually work....I actually like this deal for the Canucks. Biron, in my mind, is a very good young goalie.....this guy is not even at his peak yet.

i doubt Buffalo would do that since it basically work out to to Mckee for Sopel, i am sure Burke would be very happy to drive Cloutier and Sopel to Vancovuer International Airport.

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 02:17 PM
i doubt Buffalo would do that since it basically work out to to Mckee for Sopel, i am sure Burke would be very happy to drive Cloutier and Sopel to Vancovuer International Airport.

Biron is very underrated.....this guy will be real good in the near future

As for Burke, he was also happy to give Danny a 2.5 mil contract for 1 year

MVP
10-20-2003, 02:19 PM
Biron is very underrated.....this guy will be real good in the near future

As for Burke, he was also happy to give Danny a 2.5 mil contract for 1 year


You do know that Biron is making 2.2 millions $ this season right? Not trying to get into the Biron Vs Cloutier debate again.

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 02:21 PM
You do know that Biron is making 2.2 millions $ this season right? Not trying to get into the Biron Vs Cloutier debate again.

Yep, i knew he was around 2 mil....I would still take him over Danny right now....I will commend Burke if this deal ever did go down......Biron is extremely underrated

MVP
10-20-2003, 02:22 PM
Yep, i knew he was around 2 mil....I would still take him over Danny right now....I will commend Burke if this deal ever did go down......Biron is extremely underrated

Son it is not even a deal or a rumor, it is totally a fantasy created by you.

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 02:23 PM
Son it is not even a deal or a rumor, it is totally a fantasy created by you.

and the whole McKee, Biron and Cloutier, McKee situation was created by you...your point? :dunno: I am not making up rumors, you mentioned those players so i came up with a trade proposal. Big deal :teach:

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 02:27 PM
Son it is not even a deal or a rumor, it is totally a fantasy created by you.

a fantasy for a lot of Canuck fans ;)

MVP
10-20-2003, 02:27 PM
and the whole McKee, Biron and Cloutier, McKee situation was created by you...your point? :dunno: I am not making up rumors, you mentioned those players so i came up with a trade proposal. Big deal :teach:


i did not brought up Mckee, Biron or Cloutier, it was brought up by Sabres22. i am just saying i am not interested in heading into a debate whether Biron or Cloutier is the better goalie, but obviously that was the direction that it was heading.

My whole point was Biron does not work in Vancouver, and Cloutier does not work in Buffalo. Mckee would be a good defenceman for Vancouver since Sabres22 mentioned that Buffalo is interested in trading a defenceman which i suggested that Canucks have propsects and draft pick to offer.

Peter Griffin
10-20-2003, 02:28 PM
Biron is no better than Cloutier and has never played a playoff game. Makes zero sense for the Canucks to have any interest in him...

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 02:28 PM
i did not brought up Mckee, Biron or Cloutier, it was brought up by Sabres22. i am just saying i am not interested in heading into a debate whether Biron or Cloutier is the better goalie, but obviously that was the direction that it was heading.

My whole point was Biron does not work in Vancouver, and Cloutier does not work in Buffalo. Mckee would be a good defenceman for Vancouver since Sabres22 mentioned that Buffalo is interested in trading a defenceman which i suggested that Canucks have propsects and draft pick to offer.

The Sabres and Canucks do make good trading partners though

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 02:31 PM
Biron is no better than Cloutier and has never played a playoff game. Makes zero sense for the Canucks to have any interest in him...

I beg to differ....Biron is an underrated goalie who is playing in Buffalo. I actually think that a trade will be better for his career

Hobo
10-20-2003, 02:31 PM
Quat is right - mind farts by Cloutier = three points into thin air. Bet the franchise on Cujo as soon as he can play and dump Cloutier. Cujo can stink it up for the Canucks while getting his game back, then after we trade him for another doomed goaltender he can turn it on for somebody else - of course, the next year he and Clootch will both be the Vezina nominees while we watch Hedberg and Tyler Moss melt down.

Saw Burke or his clone coming out of Starbucks yesterday morning and his jacket looked a little snug. Maybe he better start jogging rather than driving people to the airport.

Hopefully Nazzy and bert will give the puck back to Mo tonight and their line can start putting some points up. 5-2 Canucks

Peter Griffin
10-20-2003, 02:38 PM
I beg to differ....Biron is an underrated goalie who is playing in Buffalo. I actually think that a trade will be better for his career


I obviously disagree. What I see in Biron is a goalie with a lot of talent, who has yet to put it all together and become a bonafide #1. He's currently fighting for ice-time with two unproven players in Mikka Noronen and Ryan Miller. Not the best indication that he's an underrated goalie...

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 02:40 PM
I obviously disagree. What I see in Biron is a goalie with a lot of talent, who has yet to put it all together and become a bonafide #1. He's currently fighting for ice-time with two unproven players in Mikka Noronen and Ryan Miller. Not the best situation for an underrated goalie...

the thing is Biron has much more potential than Cloutier.......i see him having a bigger impact in the near future. Like you said Buffalo has a lot of front end talent in net for the future...surely one will be left packing and my bet will be Biron. This guy underrated in my books

Peter Griffin
10-20-2003, 02:46 PM
the thing is Biron has much more potential than Cloutier.......

That may be true, but IMO, he has yet to put it together. The Canucks don't need a guy with potential, they need a guy who can win now. Cloutier is better suited for the Canucks.


Like you said Buffalo has a lot of front end talent in net for the future...surely one will be left packing and my bet will be Biron. This guy underrated in my books

To me that says that the Sabres aren't too happy with Biron's play and are looking at other sources to provide quality, consistent(keyword, Biron is very inconsistent) goaltending. Biron could likely be had for cheap because of the goalie market now, but he isn't someone the Canucks need. If Cloutier doesn't work(I think he will), the Canucks will either go with Hedberg or look for a proven playoff goalie. Bringing in another question mark in Biron is not the way to go.

As for Biron, I think Calgary would be a great place for him. Turek has really struggled and is injured again, the Flames need a #1 guy they can count on. Biron is still young enough to emerge as a true #1 guy and could likely be had fairly cheap. The problem is his salary, $2.2 mil is too much for the Flames to pay if they have pay Turek's salary as well.

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 02:48 PM
As for Biron, I think Calgary would be a great place for him. Turek has really struggled and is injured again, the Flames need a #1 guy they can count on. Biron is still young enough to emerge as a true #1 guy and could likely be had fairly cheap. The problem is his salary, $2.2 mil is too much for the Flames to pay if they have pay Turek's salary as well.

Biron to Calgary would definately make sense....perhaps if the Sabres would eat some of his contract there can be a deal possibly

Rageinthecage
10-20-2003, 02:56 PM
Don't think Regier would want Cloutier considering his salary is slightly more than Biron, not to mention Biron is younger with more upside. If the Sabres ever become an Eastern contender in the near future, they would want a much more experienced and heralded goalie if Biron/Noronen were not cutting it. Miller is the goalie of the future there as well.

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 02:59 PM
Don't think Regier would want Cloutier considering his salary is slightly more than Biron, not to mention Biron is younger with more upside. If the Sabres ever become an Eastern contender in the near future, they would want a much more experienced and heralded goalie if Biron/Noronen were not cutting it. Miller is the goalie of the future there as well.

agreed

Thalia
10-20-2003, 03:00 PM
Saw Burke or his clone coming out of Starbucks yesterday morning and his jacket looked a little snug. Maybe he better start jogging rather than drivingMust be Jennifer's cooking. Mind you, his jacket would fit very loosely if he lived with me... not really the kitchen type. :p

Buffaloed
10-20-2003, 03:03 PM
Hedberg hopefully will get the start.

Bertuzzi should be able to easily handle the small(physically) defense Buffalo has. Other than McKee there's no one on the team that has a chance to handle Bertuzzi defensively.

Zhitnik (5'11" 215) is easily the physically strongest of the Sabres dmen. The Sabres will try to match him and Kalinin (6'2" 210) up against the Bertuzzi line. McKee (6'3" 210) may be physically strong, but he's not that strong on his skates. Even Tallinder (6'3" 215) might be better suited on Bertuzzi than McKee, because he's a great skater. Other than Campbell, the Sabres have good size on the blueline. Bertuzzi can manhandle almost any dman in the NHL when he has a mind to do it.

Thalia
10-20-2003, 03:24 PM
Does anyone have the full lineup for tonight?

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 03:25 PM
Does anyone have the full lineup for tonight?

MVP does

WhalerBoy
10-20-2003, 03:26 PM
Does anyone have the full lineup for tonight?

can someone confirm who is starting in goal for Van?

TheBrew
10-20-2003, 03:26 PM
Especially when an oiler fan makes the thread :rolly:Hey who's first in the divison :p :rolly:

Ohh ya does Anson Carter interested you for some secondary scoring he just doesent seem to fit in New York i think he makes 2.8 Million this year might be a good pick up :dunno:

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 03:27 PM
can someone confirm who is starting in goal for Van?

Danny Cloutier ;)

Thalia
10-20-2003, 03:28 PM
MVP doesI see. And is MVP keeping it all to himself?

WhalerBoy
10-20-2003, 03:32 PM
Danny Cloutier ;)

is this confirmed by the canucks/crawford, or just your opinion.

thanks

Burke's Evil Spirit
10-20-2003, 03:56 PM
Ugh...when will people learn that when it comes to containing Bertuzzi, size matters not.

Peter Griffin
10-20-2003, 04:04 PM
Ugh...when will people learn that when it comes to containing Bertuzzi, size matters not.

Exactly. Agitation is all that is needed.

Thalia
10-20-2003, 04:07 PM
Cloutier, Ruutu, and Slegr are all playing tonight. Allen and Keane sit.
Thank you. :D

Where do you people find out who's in the lineup anyway... is there a website or something or do you hear it on the radio?

Reign Nateo
10-20-2003, 04:11 PM
This is a big chance for Cloutier to grab the ball, he will get chance after chance as he has since he came to Vancouver, and it's time to start making something of them.

He got everything handed to him here and this is the first instance that he will have to earn something in Vancouver. I wish him the best, but I'm sick of losing points (and series') because of goaltending.

Shape up or ship him out.

Reign Nateo
10-20-2003, 04:12 PM
I'm hoping Briere isn't well enough to play, that pesky little bugger would easily score a couple on Cloutier, just the type of player that gives Cloutier fits.

Peter Griffin
10-20-2003, 04:13 PM
Crawford gives me a shout before each game to see if I approve.

Damn, it's your fault they're winless in 3 games then!

Thalia
10-20-2003, 04:13 PM
Crawford gives me a shout before each game to see if I approve.
Yeah, with that voice of his I SHOULD be able to hear him too... all the way over here on the Island. :joker:

Thalia
10-20-2003, 04:18 PM
This is a big chance for Cloutier to grab the ball
Cloutier with the ball...http://www.hfboards.com/image.php?userid=10006&dateline=1052521570

I hope it's not that kind of ball.

Impossibles
10-20-2003, 05:08 PM
holy crap...game hasn't even started yet and 5 pages of posts

Red
10-20-2003, 05:12 PM
Has Buffalo had the puck for more than 3 seconds?

Red
10-20-2003, 05:16 PM
Daniel!!!!!

incawg
10-20-2003, 05:17 PM
ole ole ole!!!!!!!!!!

malik is now leading the NHL with a +6 rating.

Canucks-R-best
10-20-2003, 05:27 PM
good to see the Sedins doing well

Red
10-20-2003, 05:31 PM
WHAT a goal by Linden.

Canucks-R-best
10-20-2003, 05:32 PM
WHAT a goal by Linden.

was it ever

cc
10-20-2003, 05:34 PM
I think we're going to have to have The Brew start more GDT for us ;)

Canucks-R-best
10-20-2003, 05:39 PM
Jovo!!!

tantalum
10-20-2003, 05:41 PM
Worth mentioning Arvedson has his first point as a canuck on the Linden goal.

incawg
10-20-2003, 05:41 PM
best period of the year for the nucks. hopefully they don't sit back on it.

Canadian Chris
10-20-2003, 05:44 PM
I just like to point out, that, those lovely jersey's that apparently, according to some, we're not wearing this year, are being worn tonight :eek:

Go figure....those of you that said we were retiring those jersey's already...I give you this :p

nucks2001
10-20-2003, 05:45 PM
wow.. that was quite possibly the most dominating period I've ever seen played in the NHL.. did the Sabres forget something in Calgary?

C'nuckleHead
10-20-2003, 05:45 PM
Sabres are bad! They barely touched the puck that period.

incawg
10-20-2003, 05:46 PM
I just like to point out, that, those lovely jersey's that apparently, according to some, we're not wearing this year, are being worn tonight :eek:

Go figure....those of you that said we were retiring those jersey's already...I give you this :p

speaking of jersies, did anyone catch the wings/habs games? the habs retro home jersies look really nice imo.

Waveburner
10-20-2003, 05:48 PM
That was very one-sided...

Pretty goals for Daniel and Linden...

Drury REALLY wishes he was in Colorado again :joker:

TheBrew
10-20-2003, 05:48 PM
I think we're going to have to have The Brew start more GDT for us ;)I might have to if its the only way you guys can win :p except if they play the oilers :D

C'nuckleHead
10-20-2003, 05:50 PM
The "Panel" says Cujo to the AHL! $8 million contract in the minors!

incawg
10-20-2003, 05:51 PM
Pat Morris is on his way to vancouver according to kypreos on sportsnet. Could the deal finally be done?

Mizral
10-20-2003, 06:02 PM
What can I say? Ugly.

Biron is in the pipes now.

By the way, Komorocks & the others, you guys are on double-secret probation for attempted gameday thread hijacking.

Riven
10-20-2003, 06:06 PM
The Sedin line has looked great tonight. They look like they could score almost every shift out there.

Unthinkable
10-20-2003, 06:06 PM
Buffalo has run out of goaltenders to turn to for this one. Holy smokes.

incawg
10-20-2003, 06:06 PM
8-0 canucks.

oh why not...the last time I predicted this score we won :D

we are due for an offensive breakout game though. I just want to hear tommy yell "THE FLOODGATES HAVE OPENED!"

half way there. still waiting for tommy to yell it :D :D

C'nuckleHead
10-20-2003, 06:12 PM
Bertuzzi is the only Canuck forward having a sub par night. Zhitnik has handled him physically

incawg
10-20-2003, 06:17 PM
oooh we got a tommy "BINGO BANGO BONGO!"

LaVal
10-20-2003, 06:18 PM
seriously.... King should not be rotated in and out of the lineup. he's deffinately got some chemistry with the twins.

Connecticut
10-20-2003, 06:19 PM
half way there. still waiting for tommy to yell it :D :D

"If you can't run with the big dogs, you better stay on the porch"

<Shorthouse cracks up>

Thalia
10-20-2003, 06:19 PM
What's wrong with Buffalo... they're playing awful... no life whatsoever.

I hate games like these...

Red
10-20-2003, 06:22 PM
Yikes. This is just incredibly ugly.

incawg
10-20-2003, 06:23 PM
seriously...this game COULD BE 8-0.

everyone owes me 100$ if the score ends as that :D

Thalia
10-20-2003, 06:24 PM
half way there. still waiting for tommy to yell it :D :D
Oh, but that would be soooo tacky to win 8-0. :p

Does anyone know what was the most goals scored in an NHL game?

I remember a couple of seasons ago when the Pens got beaten something like 9-1 or something like that.

KillToronto
10-20-2003, 06:25 PM
Hey, I bet you guys never thought you'd see women play hockey in the NHL. I knew our Sabres would prove you guys wrong. Makes me sick watching this crap every nite. You guys are lucky you have a half-decent team there.

LaVal
10-20-2003, 06:26 PM
this is the type of game where players like Naslund have to keep their head up. when teams are frustrated like this they'll take a huge penalty to spark some life in their team.

tantalum
10-20-2003, 06:27 PM
I don't think Ruff lasts much past this road trip. LA, Anaheim and Colorado to go. This is a team that had no life against Philly, the Islanders, Edmonton and now Vancovuer. 6 games and they have been listless in 4. And they weren't much in the Calgary win. That usually spells a coaching change.

incawg
10-20-2003, 06:27 PM
this is the type of game where players like Naslund have to keep their head up. when teams are frustrated like this they'll take a huge penalty to spark some life in their team.

I bet he gets about 2 minutes of ice time in the third.

Mizral
10-20-2003, 06:28 PM
Hey, I bet you guys never thought you'd see women play hockey in the NHL. I knew our Sabres would prove you guys wrong. Makes me sick watching this crap every nite. You guys are lucky you have a half-decent team there.

This is even worse than the 9 - 0 drubbing against Atlanta last year.

Sad part? 6 goals, only two points by the Canucks big-line.

C'nuckleHead
10-20-2003, 06:28 PM
Jovo getting a great body crunch on.

Thalia
10-20-2003, 06:28 PM
Hey, I bet you guys never thought you'd see women play hockey in the NHL. I knew our Sabres would prove you guys wrong. Makes me sick watching this crap every nite. You guys are lucky you have a half-decent team there.
That's too bad that. I don't really follow too many of the eastern teams but... haven't your Sabres been better than this, I mean haven't they been playing pretty good... wins?? :confused:

Unthinkable
10-20-2003, 06:28 PM
Pretty close to running the boards on all Sabres negatives for the night. This is the kind of game that rekindles the fire the coach talks on sports radio.

ttr
10-20-2003, 06:29 PM
this is the type of game where players like Naslund have to keep their head up. when teams are frustrated like this they'll take a huge penalty to spark some life in their team.

there there

otherwise it's 2+2=5 for naslund

islandnucker
10-20-2003, 06:30 PM
I was wondering if any of you guys have noticed how many empty seats have been in GM Place for the home games. I noticed that in the Calgary game and this one there seems to be quite a few. What gives? I'd kill to watch a game.

incawg
10-20-2003, 06:30 PM
malik +7, now tied for NHL lead.

KillToronto
10-20-2003, 06:31 PM
Hey , at least I have Morrison on my fantasy team!

ttr
10-20-2003, 06:32 PM
I was wondering if any of you guys have noticed how many empty seats have been in GM Place for the home games. I noticed that in the Calgary game and this one there seems to be quite a few. What gives? I'd kill to watch a game.

weather?
quality of opposition?(avs and wings will sell out)


too comfy to be home :D

Unthinkable
10-20-2003, 06:33 PM
I don't think Ruff lasts much past this road trip. LA, Anaheim and Colorado to go. This is a team that had no life against Philly, the Islanders, Edmonton and now Vancovuer. 6 games and they have been listless in 4. And they weren't much in the Calgary win. That usually spells a coaching change.

I think you're bang on there. Thought Buffalo was going to be a vastly improved team with all the moves they made starting at last years trade deadline. The D and goaltending has been horrendous. Looks like a two horse race between Ruff and Cassidy now for who gets the pink slip first. Get the real estate agents on the phone and quick.

KillToronto
10-20-2003, 06:34 PM
I think you're bang on there. Thought Buffalo was going to be a vastly improved team with all the moves they made starting at last years trade deadline. The D and goaltending has been horrendous. Looks like a two horse race between Ruff and Cassidy now for who gets the pink slip first. Get the real estate agents on the phone and quick.

Thank God. Get Ruff the HELL OUT OF HERE!!!!!!!!! I never liked that life-less bum of a joke coach. He doesn't motivate for crap. Worthless. It's been downhill every year since 99.

LaVal
10-20-2003, 06:35 PM
Hey , at least I have Morrison on my fantasy team!


you might want to trade him for a twin :D the Sedins are readily outscoring the big line so far this season.

CCF
10-20-2003, 06:37 PM
Those Sedins are freakin awesome...

That's all I have to say, now I must go study considering I've been sitting with my books at the TV...glancing down every 10 mins and forgetting everything I'm trying to remember.

Thalia
10-20-2003, 06:37 PM
Hey , at least I have Morrison on my fantasy team!
:( Wow, if your team is really this bad then that must be really discouraging for the fans and the players. They obviously need a major shakeup.

This type of game really isn't that great for us fans either, well for me anyway; very very boring. It's like watching father 'n tot time at the local rink. It's fun to watch for a while but then you're off to the snack bar for coffee and cake.

Wake up Buffalo... the 'Nucks are roaming all over you!!!

evman150*
10-20-2003, 06:38 PM
Wow. 6-0.

They look like the friggin Harlem Globetrotters out there.

That and the Sabres really suck. How oh how did the flames lose to them.

:(

C'nuckleHead
10-20-2003, 06:40 PM
This performance is definitely a coach killer. There's no effort. Unless...Canucks are this good! :bow:

kmad
10-20-2003, 06:40 PM
quick everyone back on the Sopel and Cloutier bandwagon!

MVP
10-20-2003, 06:41 PM
Holy crap, i guess we can leave the comparison between Biron and Cloutier behind for now, all is well in Vancouver right now. i guess we should enjoy it while we can. Good Game Boyz

Castor Troy
10-20-2003, 06:41 PM
Bertuzzi is the only Canuck forward having a sub par night. Zhitnik has handled him physically

I agree, I mean this is great to see the team breakout like this but jesus has Bertuzzi been brutal. He held onto the puck far too long on two straight two on ones, didn't even get a chance on either... for a guy that was approaching 50 goals last year, that's pretty weak. I'd like to see him pick it up in the third here.

A+ for the rest of the team :bow:

MVP
10-20-2003, 06:42 PM
quick everyone back on the Sopel and Cloutier bandwagon!


i could not get on, they are too full :eek:

KillToronto
10-20-2003, 06:42 PM
Wake up Buffalo... the 'Nucks are roaming all over you!!!

Hey, come on now. You make it seem as if you're the only team that beat the hell out of us this year. Don't worry, it's been done before.

Thalia
10-20-2003, 06:43 PM
quick everyone back on the Sopel and Cloutier bandwagon!
Cloutier could have left his jockstrap between the pipes to play and it would still be 6-0 'Nucks.

So far Cloutier isn't even a factor in this game.

asavage
10-20-2003, 06:50 PM
I was wondering if any of you guys have noticed how many empty seats have been in GM Place for the home games. I noticed that in the Calgary game and this one there seems to be quite a few. What gives? I'd kill to watch a game.
The Calgary game sold out and this one is probably sold out. If not only single seats are availble. For some reason there is always empty seats in the stands of sold out games. For whatever reason the owner doesn't show up.

Red
10-20-2003, 06:55 PM
The Calgary game sold out and this one is probably sold out. If not only single seats are availble. For some reason there is always empty seats in the stands of sold out games. For whatever reason the owner doesn't show up.

Well, aren't Canucks fans notorious for coming in late? Looks pretty full right now. I know when I go to games, most of the folks come in the second period.

Thalia
10-20-2003, 06:55 PM
*yaaaaaaaaaaaawns*

Thalia
10-20-2003, 06:57 PM
Biron has life.

incawg
10-20-2003, 07:01 PM
dammit, there goes my prediction. booooooooooooooo

C'nuckleHead
10-20-2003, 07:01 PM
Last year Baron blocks that Buffalo goal.

Thalia
10-20-2003, 07:01 PM
This could be the comeback of the season. *hopes*

Ol' Dirty Chinaman*
10-20-2003, 07:05 PM
*sigh*

Even on a 6-0 beating, Cloutier can't hold a shutout.

That PP goal from Satan was just weak and shouldn't have gone in shortside, he was way too deep in his net.

Thalia
10-20-2003, 07:07 PM
*sigh*

Even on a 6-0 beating, Cloutier can't hold a shutout.

That PP goal from Satan was just weak and shouldn't have gone in shortside, he was way too deep in his net.Well there was about eleven minutes left... quite a bit of time left in the game for the other team to score though.

Connecticut
10-20-2003, 07:20 PM
*sigh*

Even on a 6-0 beating, Cloutier can't hold a shutout.

That PP goal from Satan was just weak and shouldn't have gone in shortside, he was way too deep in his net.

I wish there were more smart people like this to contribute to the board.

LaVal
10-20-2003, 07:22 PM
i hate it when the refs try and keep a lopsided game "under control" by dishing out 1 penalty after another in the late stages. it's a damn boring way to end a game.

xtra
10-20-2003, 07:22 PM
*sigh*

Even on a 6-0 beating, Cloutier can't hold a shutout.

That PP goal from Satan was just weak and shouldn't have gone in shortside, he was way too deep in his net.


Actually that was a very good shot while Cloutier was being screened by Marek Malik



BTW i think that Slegr has looked like Crap out there. he totally screwed up the 2 on 0 that he had with Bertuzzi.


SHOOT THE PUCK SHOOT THE PUCK SLEGR

Thalia
10-20-2003, 07:29 PM
Jason King: First star of the night; quite the Newfy rookie.

He really shouldn't refer to the powerplay as the peepee though. :rolleyes:

Castor Troy
10-20-2003, 07:30 PM
Actually that was a very good shot while Cloutier was being screened by Marek Malik



BTW i think that Slegr has looked like Crap out there. he totally screwed up the 2 on 0 that he had with Bertuzzi.


SHOOT THE PUCK SHOOT THE PUCK SLEGR

Tell me you're joking... the game is 6-0 and you're the 7th defenseman going in on a 2 on 0 with the league's best power forward... not only that but he made a good pass in my opinion, that Bertuzzi just plain missed on. Bertuzzi was the only Canuck player who didn't play well tonight.

Ol' Dirty Chinaman*
10-20-2003, 07:33 PM
Actually that was a very good shot while Cloutier was being screened by Marek Malik


I disagree.

Cloutier was already in his butterfly mode, it wasn't going to go in through the ice, Malik was in front screening, the puck obviously isn't going to go through Malik -- the only part that was open to Satan was the shortside Cloutier *wasn't* covering and he cashed in on it.

Okay I can understand why he was deep, in case the puck is moved to the other side, but for god sake's, there's no point in protecting an area of the net that your d-man is already in front of.

It was sloppy, period.

KOMO_ROCKS
10-20-2003, 07:34 PM
i could not get on, they are too full :eek:

too many bandwagon jumper fans not just for Canucks but for all teams....sad to see

Thalia
10-20-2003, 07:37 PM
I disagree.

Cloutier was already in his butterfly mode, it wasn't going to go in through the ice, Malik was in front screening, the puck obviously isn't going to go through Malik -- the only part that was open to Satan was the shortside Cloutier *wasn't* covering and he cashed in on it.

Okay I can understand why he was deep, in case the puck is moved to the other side, but for god sake's, there's no point in protecting an area of the net that your d-man is already in front of.

It was sloppy, period.Okay I agree with you now. I take my eleven-minutes-to-go-excuse back. :p

TheBrew
10-20-2003, 07:43 PM
the only negitive i saw was that Brad May attemp to Injure what was that all about? :dunno:

Waveburner
10-20-2003, 07:47 PM
the only negitive i saw was that Brad May attemp to Injure what was that all about? :dunno:

Looked accidental to me...he coulda hurt him though, as he tried to cross-check McKee's shoulder, but it slid off the shoulder pads and smacked him in the head. Didn't deserve a match IMO, but meh, I could be wrong. Hopefully no suspension though, it was an accident.

BCCHL inactive
10-20-2003, 07:50 PM
Looked accidental to me...he coulda hurt him though, as he tried to cross-check McKee's shoulder, but it slid off the shoulder pads and smacked him in the head. Didn't deserve a match IMO, but meh, I could be wrong. Hopefully no suspension though, it was an accident.

My money is on a one-game suspension. Accident or not, May did cross check McKee in the face.

I don't know about a Match Penalty, but it was an easy Major and a Game Misconduct in my opinion.

Waveburner
10-20-2003, 07:53 PM
My money is on a one-game suspension. Accident or not, May did cross check McKee in the face.

I don't know about a Match Penalty, but it was an easy Major and a Game Misconduct in my opinion.

Could be right...might get a game...wouldn't bother me that much, I'm not a huge May fan...

kmad
10-20-2003, 07:58 PM
Where is the logic in injuring a 3-4 defenseman, when you're up 6-1, with under a minute left in the game, against a rival from another conference? I think the NHL will overlook this one.

Reign Nateo
10-20-2003, 08:04 PM
I don't know how you can say that a defenceman who played 19 minutes, had an assist and was a part of more than 3 scoring chances, and finished +2 had a bad game. That's ridiculous. Slegr was solid, and I think we're going to see more and more of him as he gets used to the NHL again.

Cloutier let in a weak goal, but it doesn't matter.

I don't think May was attempting to injure anybody and I am willing to bet he doesn't see a suspension.

Biggest Canuck Fan
10-20-2003, 08:34 PM
Cloutier let in a weak goal, but it doesn't matter.


That was not a weak goal. Satan is a sniper, and he used Malik as a screen and wired that wrister home...

weak goal...

That is just an insane comment.

BCCHL inactive
10-20-2003, 08:39 PM
Where is the logic in injuring a 3-4 defenseman, when you're up 6-1, with under a minute left in the game, against a rival from another conference? I think the NHL will overlook this one.

I've seen weirder things happen.

The reason May will likely see a suspension is because he was extremely careless with his stick, and clobbered McKee in the face with it. I don't think May was trying to hurt McKee, but he did the deed...and we have seen lesser offences earn a game in the stands.

Connecticut
10-20-2003, 09:05 PM
The reason May will likely see a suspension is because he was extremely careless with his stick, and clobbered McKee in the face with it. I don't think May was trying to hurt McKee, but he did the deed...and we have seen lesser offences earn a game in the stands.

Well maybe this will help Brad's case...

``I don't think he deserved a match penalty for that,'' said McKee, who admitted to face washing May in the corner.

incawg
10-20-2003, 09:06 PM
I've seen weirder things happen.

The reason May will likely see a suspension is because he was extremely careless with his stick, and clobbered McKee in the face with it. I don't think May was trying to hurt McKee, but he did the deed...and we have seen lesser offences earn a game in the stands.

"I don't think he deserved a match penalty for that," said McKee, who admitted to face washing May in the corner.

Pretty rare to see a guy get suspended when even the guy who got hit doesn't agree with the call.

Canadian Chris
10-20-2003, 09:27 PM
Well, the Match, which May recieved according to Sportsnet....is an automatic review by the league...I think he gets a game, but that's pretty good of McKee to say what he did...


Regarding the Satan goal....ya, it's a toss up...some say weak, other say he used Malik as a screen....I agree with those that say screen. Satan knows what to do with the puck when he gets the a Dman in front of him....that, and you can clearly see that from Cloutier's reaction, he had NO idea where the puck was heading.

colonel_korn
10-20-2003, 10:28 PM
I've seen weirder things happen.

The reason May will likely see a suspension is because he was extremely careless with his stick, and clobbered McKee in the face with it. I don't think May was trying to hurt McKee, but he did the deed...and we have seen lesser offences earn a game in the stands.

K, not to harp on you Van but please clear this up for me.

On the weekend you were adamant that Brad Brown and Matt Johnson did not deserve major penalties for their hits from behind. In particular you said:


The hits did not cause injury, therefore a major penalty was not warranted. Referees cannot make calls based on "what ifs".

As far as I saw McKee wasn't injured by May's stick. Sure he was pissed off, but no more so than May was after being put head-first into the boards on Saturday. So why in your eyes is May deserving of a major and a game misconduct, and possible suspension, while Brown and Johnson only deserved 2 minutes each?

-Both were illegal plays that had potential to seriously injure the player on the receiving end
-In both cases the player on the receiving end was thankfully not injured.
-But one deserves only a minor penalty, while the other deserves a major, a game and a possible suspension? :dunno:

BCCHL inactive
10-21-2003, 12:46 AM
K, not to harp on you Van but please clear this up for me.

On the weekend you were adamant that Brad Brown and Matt Johnson did not deserve major penalties for their hits from behind. In particular you said:



As far as I saw McKee wasn't injured by May's stick. Sure he was pissed off, but no more so than May was after being put head-first into the boards on Saturday. So why in your eyes is May deserving of a major and a game misconduct, and possible suspension, while Brown and Johnson only deserved 2 minutes each?

-Both were illegal plays that had potential to seriously injure the player on the receiving end
-In both cases the player on the receiving end was thankfully not injured.
-But one deserves only a minor penalty, while the other deserves a major, a game and a possible suspension? :dunno:


I never said that Brown and Johnson deserved anything for their hits. All I did was defend the referees' judgment that they were good, hard hits with no intent to injure their opponents. Just because the play has the potential for injury does not necessarily make it illegal.

I hold the opinion that May did not intend to hurt McKee, but that being said, the play was not clean either. Anytime you cross check somebody in the face, you had better be getting the gate imo.

Reign Nateo
10-21-2003, 06:14 AM
Sure it was a screen, but those are some pretty good holes in the armor, it's not like Satan picked a corner, the puck simply went thru Cloutier. Not a big deal, cost himself the shutout.

Reign Nateo
10-21-2003, 06:15 AM
That was not a weak goal. Satan is a sniper, and he used Malik as a screen and wired that wrister home...

weak goal...

That is just an insane comment.

It may be insane, but I'm not the first to make it.

Rageinthecage
10-21-2003, 06:32 AM
Oh, but that would be soooo tacky to win 8-0. :p

Does anyone know what was the most goals scored in an NHL game?

I remember a couple of seasons ago when the Pens got beaten something like 9-1 or something like that.

I have no idea of the official record (shouldn't be too difficult to locate on the net somewhere), but in the 80's shootouts happened on a regular basis. I remember some game in the mid 80's between I think the Winnipeg Jets and the Minnesota North Stars (now Dallas of course) ending 15-2 for one of the teams.

Thalia
10-21-2003, 07:08 AM
A few pics of last night's game:

http://canucks.com/images/inbydate03/oct2003/bert_b.jpg

http://canucks.com/images/inbydate03/oct2003/cloutier_b.jpg

http://canucks.com/images/inbydate03/oct2003/nazzy_b.jpg

http://canucks.com/images/inbydate03/oct2003/goal_b.jpg

Burke's Evil Spirit
10-21-2003, 07:38 AM
I have no idea of the official record (shouldn't be too difficult to locate on the net somewhere), but in the 80's shootouts happened on a regular basis. I remember some game in the mid 80's between I think the Winnipeg Jets and the Minnesota North Stars (now Dallas of course) ending 15-2 for one of the teams.

The record is 19 goals, when the Montreal Canadiens beat the Quebec Bulldogs 16-3 in 1919-1920.

As for Satan's goal...how was that weak? That is basically the same as every goal Naslund has ever scored on the PP and I certainly wouldn't call any of those weak. Cloutier was screened, and Malik deflected the puck with his stick.

(Man oh man, is Cloutier ever under scrutiny this year ;) )

Mizral
10-21-2003, 07:44 AM
I have no idea of the official record (shouldn't be too difficult to locate on the net somewhere), but in the 80's shootouts happened on a regular basis. I remember some game in the mid 80's between I think the Winnipeg Jets and the Minnesota North Stars (now Dallas of course) ending 15-2 for one of the teams.

I believe the Ottawa Silver 7 once beat a team from Dawson or whatever, something like 52 - 2. It was a sanctioned NHL game, if I recall correctly.

kmad
10-21-2003, 07:46 AM
I have no idea of the official record (shouldn't be too difficult to locate on the net somewhere), but in the 80's shootouts happened on a regular basis. I remember some game in the mid 80's between I think the Winnipeg Jets and the Minnesota North Stars (now Dallas of course) ending 15-2 for one of the teams.


I think the record for a Canucks game is Vancouver 11-0 over Calgary back in 1990 or 1991.. I know Greg Adams notched the game winner, I was like 7 years old, and me and my dad were driving and listening to it on the radio and I kept saying how Calgary's goalie sucked.

Biggest I've seen though is 12-0 with Maromir era Pittsburgh over Toronto, and 12-1 with the same Pittsburgh team over a fledgling San Jose team.

Burke's Evil Spirit
10-21-2003, 07:58 AM
I believe the Ottawa Silver 7 once beat a team from Dawson or whatever, something like 52 - 2. It was a sanctioned NHL game, if I recall correctly.

According to hockeydb.com, the only NHL team from Ottawa are the Senators.

colonel_korn
10-21-2003, 08:08 AM
Heck, didn't Washington beat Florida something like 12-2 just last year? I seem to remember Jagr got like 7 points, and Dudley *****ed about how the Capitals were 'classless' or something after the game.

Hobo
10-21-2003, 09:50 AM
Amazing how when things are going your way the puck bounces for you and vice versa when you're snakebit. Nazzy could have had two goals on great scoring chances, King another and Bert one - Slegr's pass was there and it looked like he just got in a touch too tight so it was in his feet. Could have been even uglier, although the Sabres did hit some posts too. Nice to see the Canucks jump on their chances - what a lift Linden gave - he nearly did the same against Detroit too - he said his brother had been grinding him to go harder to the net.

Class comment by Brad McKee.:)

C'nuckleHead
10-21-2003, 10:15 AM
I disagree.

Cloutier was already in his butterfly mode, it wasn't going to go in through the ice, Malik was in front screening, the puck obviously isn't going to go through Malik -- the only part that was open to Satan was the shortside Cloutier *wasn't* covering and he cashed in on it.

Okay I can understand why he was deep, in case the puck is moved to the other side, but for god sake's, there's no point in protecting an area of the net that your d-man is already in front of.

It was sloppy, period.

Malik wasn't screening much except Cloutier. If he'd even turned his skates sideways, he'd be of more use to Cloutier. It was a perfect shot on a screened goaltender; you could tell by Cloutier's late reaction that he didn't see the shot.

SedinFan*
10-21-2003, 12:54 PM
His positioning was off again. He was playing like Potvin. That Satan goal could of and should have been stopped.

kmad
10-21-2003, 01:04 PM
His positioning was off again. He was playing like Potvin. That Satan goal could of and should have been stopped.


He had to be prepared to anticipate a pass to the left wing, he can't commit 100% to the shooter. remember this was on a Buffalo power play

WhalerBoy
10-21-2003, 01:20 PM
A few pics of last night's game:




wow, great pics. where are they from? why are they SO clear?

Ol' Dirty Chinaman*
10-21-2003, 01:21 PM
He had to be prepared to anticipate a pass to the left wing, he can't commit 100% to the shooter. remember this was on a Buffalo power play

If i remember, the passing lane was filled up by the defensive box, so a pass though likely, probably wouldn't have happened, could have happened. But he was committed on the right side and should have completely shut down the net from that area.

Actually now that I think of it, he was in a butterfly mode, which would severly restrict him from moving laterally, so if the puck was moved I'm not so sure he would have moved fast enough to make the save.

I think its time Burke hires a 700lb guy, gives him some goalie pads and skates and place a pizza in front of the net, we'd probably get better goaltending from him then Cloutier.

I realize I'm being anal, but its stuff like this that's going to kill us when we're in crunch games and play off time.

Either way, the better goalies of this league make that save. Oh well, Detriot won with Osgood so there's still hope yet ...

WhalerBoy
10-21-2003, 01:22 PM
sounds like Cloutier has many detractors in Van city. He's been kinda shaky in the close games this year, was he like that during the regular season last year? Or is this more like his playoff games?

Ol' Dirty Chinaman*
10-21-2003, 01:34 PM
wow, great pics. where are they from? why are they SO clear?

Seems to be official shots from www.canucks.com, I'm guessing a high end digital camera ?

sounds like Cloutier has many detractors in Van city. He's been kinda shaky in the close games this year, was he like that during the regular season last year? Or is this more like his playoff games?

After the past two years, Almost everybody in the core of this team has gotten better with age (Naslund, Bertuzzi, Morisson, Sedin's, Linden, Cooke, Jovo, Ohlund, etc etc) with even some gaining elite status (Naslund, Bertuzzi, Jovo) -- Cloutier seems to be (imho) the one who's got some sort of learning disability and can't graduate High School. If not skills being honed, at least show some maturity (which he obviously didn't in the CBJ game).

This team is primed and ready for a deep run, and even winning the cup NOW, how much longer do we have to wait on Cloutier ?

Wetcoaster
10-21-2003, 02:01 PM
According to hockeydb.com, the only NHL team from Ottawa are the Senators.

WRONG. See the Hockey Hall of Fame website - Legends of Hockey:
http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/LegendsPlayersByTeam.jsp?team=Ottawa+Silver+Seven

In 1905 the Ottawa Silver Seven won the Stanley Cup - it was a challenge cup in those days and they defeated the Dawson City Nuggets and later the Rat Portage (later re-named Kenora) Thistles. The score was 23 to 2 in favour of the Ottawa team which is a record and Ottawa won the best of three series 2 games to none. BTW One-Eyed Frank McGee scored 14 goals for Ottawa in that 23-2 win.

MOST GOALS, ONE TEAM, ONE GAME:
23 -- Ottawa Silver Seven at Ottawa, Jan. 16, 1905.
Ottawa defeated Dawson City 23-2.

MOST GOALS, ONE TEAM, BEST-OF-THREE SERIES:
32 -- Ottawa Silver Seven in 1905 at Ottawa. Defeated Dawson City 9-2, Jan. 13, and 23-2, Jan. 16.

MOST GOALS, ONE PLAYOFF GAME:
14 -- Frank McGee, Ottawa Silver Seven, Jan. 16, 1905 at Ottawa in 23-2 victory over Dawson City.

http://www.lcshockey.com/archive/stanleycup/oldschool.asp

The Silver Seven won the championship of the Federal Amateur Hockey League in 1905 with Frank McGee leading the way with 17 goals in only six games. In January, Ottawa successfully beat back the challenge of Dawson City. It was in this series that McGee put forth his, most legendary performance by scoring a Stanley Cup record of 14 goals in the second match. During the 23-2 rout, the Ottawa star at one point recorded eight consecutive goals in less than nine minutes. A month later, he scored the winning goal in the third and deciding game versus the challengers from Rat Portage - while playing with a broken wrist.

http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/LegendsMember.jsp?mem=p194506&type=Player&page=bio&list=ByTeam&team=Ottawa%20Silver%20Seven#photo

Ottawa Silver Seven
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Played in the Eastern Canada Amateur Hockey Association 1905-08.
Home ice :
Team colours :
Honours : Won the Stanley Cup in 1903 (March), 1904, 1905 & 1906 (February).
Won the Eastern Canada Amateur Hockey Association in 1906.
http://www.azhockey.com/Ot.htm

Also see:
http://www.hickoksports.com/history/stch1893.shtml
http://nhl.com/hockeyu/history/cup/champs.html

Now, do you not feel like a complete and total idiot? Know your hockey history or do not engage in a battle of wits with your betters - you are essentially unarmed.

Impossibles
10-21-2003, 02:12 PM
^
Ottawa Silver Seven
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Played in the Eastern Canada Amateur Hockey Association 1905-08.


I believe he said the only NHL to play in ottawa. In that case he is correct.

Wetcoaster
10-21-2003, 02:13 PM
I believe the Ottawa Silver 7 once beat a team from Dawson or whatever, something like 52 - 2. It was a sanctioned NHL game, if I recall correctly.

The NHL was not formed at that time. The Stanley Cup was still a challenge cup.

The score was actually 23-2 and was the second game of a best of three Stanley Cup challenge by the Dawson City Nuggets which took place on January 16, 1905 in Ottawa and the Ottawa Siver Seven had won the first game 9-2. One-Eyed Frank McGee, the star of the Silver Seven scored 14 goals in the second game. Needless to say the 23-2 score and the 14 goals remain records in Stanley Cup play.

KOMO_ROCKS
10-21-2003, 03:15 PM
seems like when Cloutier is in net, every game seems like a game 7 for him....maybe its just me though

colonel_korn
10-21-2003, 03:48 PM
WRONG. See the Hockey Hall of Fame website - Now, do you not feel like a complete and total idiot? Know your hockey history or do not engage in a battle of wits with your betters - you are essentially unarmed.

:lol: Holy crap, this has to be the most ridiculous and hilarious overreaction to a post that I've *ever* seen. First of all, even if he had been wrong, BES' initial post was completely innocuous. He simply stated a fact: hockeydb says the Senators are the only NHL team to ever play in Ottawa. He didn't attack Mizral in any way, which makes your attack completely unnecessary. Secondly, he's *right*. You said yourself that the NHL didn't exist when that game was played. You obviously have quite a bit of hockey knowledge but maybe you should brush up on the old reading comprehension there eh? :) And work on controlling that temper of yours, it will keep you from getting in trouble here like you did over at Canucks Central. :joker:

Riven
10-21-2003, 04:02 PM
Burke's Evil Spirit: "According to hockeydb.com, the only NHL team from Ottawa are the Senators."

Wetcoaster: "WRONG."

Impossibles: "I believe he said the only NHL to play in ottawa. In that case he is correct."

I think some of the confusion, here, is with the name of the hockey team. I can't find a good reference, but it appears the Ottawa Silver Seven became the Ottawa Senators on entering the NHL.

The team won the Stanley Cup before the NHL was formed and again after it came into being. In 1934, the financially strapped team transferred to St Louis and became the St Louis Eagles. Thus there is no connection between the current Senators and the old Senators. But, the old Senators and the Silver Seven are one and the same thing.

BCCHL inactive
10-21-2003, 05:37 PM
I think some of the confusion, here, is with the name of the hockey team. I can't find a good reference, but it appears the Ottawa Silver Seven became the Ottawa Senators on entering the NHL.


That's right. The Senators and the Silver Seven are the same franchise.

Blane Youngblood
10-21-2003, 05:56 PM
The record is 19 goals, when the Montreal Canadiens beat the Quebec Bulldogs 16-3 in 1919-1920.

As for Satan's goal...how was that weak? That is basically the same as every goal Naslund has ever scored on the PP and I certainly wouldn't call any of those weak. Cloutier was screened, and Malik deflected the puck with his stick.

(Man oh man, is Cloutier ever under scrutiny this year ;) )

I've been bashing Clouts a lot this year and I have to say that this was not a weak goal. There will be no Cloutier bashing from me after Buffalo.

PecaFan
10-21-2003, 11:59 PM
His positioning was off again. He was playing like Potvin. That Satan goal could of and should have been stopped.

This is going to be a *looooong* year.

Clouts gets the win, stops 17 of 18 for a lovely .944 save percentage in the game, and he's *still* getting hassled, and calls for Hedberg.

I'm not a Cloutier fan, but I really feel sorry for the guy.

quat
10-22-2003, 12:11 AM
This is going to be a *looooong* year.

Clouts gets the win, stops 17 of 18 for a lovely .944 save percentage in the game, and he's *still* getting hassled, and calls for Hedberg.

I'm not a Cloutier fan, but I really feel sorry for the guy.

It's true! A long year, but a funny one. I think fans are still feeling the effects of the playoffs. Things will calm down the more wins Cloutier gets under his belt. Last year was no fluke, and I'm sure we can expect a good season from both goalies.

Just watching a tape of the game, and watching the CAnucks, I'm noticing that every line out there was cycling like the Sedins. Have they influenced a whole team? ? Hmm... couldn't be?

On the play where Slegr passed the puck to Burt, the original set up went Henrik to Daniel to Burt to Slegr back to Burt. The most amazing part of this play was Daniel hit a streaking Burtuzzi right on the Blue line when he was no where near the play... it's a real testament to how well Daniel can read where players are and how to develop plays. I think the only reason Burtuzzi didn't score was he didn't expect the pass back, and didn't have his stick on the ice. Slegr's pass was excellent.

The goal that ruined the shutout went off Maliks stick. I think Cloutier saw it all the way, and was in good position to stop it, but redirected, it went over his left shoulder. Nothing he could have done with that.

SedinFan*
10-22-2003, 01:20 AM
This is going to be a *looooong* year.

Clouts gets the win, stops 17 of 18 for a lovely .944 save percentage in the game, and he's *still* getting hassled, and calls for Hedberg.

I'm not a Cloutier fan, but I really feel sorry for the guy.

It's about playing to win the Cup. With these weaknesses in his game it will only cost the Canucks goals in the future. That's why I point them out. Until he fixes his positioning, puckhandling, awareness and mental abilities the Canucks have an extremely slim chance at winning the Cup.

Ol' Dirty Chinaman*
10-22-2003, 10:17 AM
http://members.shaw.ca/zapiper118/1.JPG
http://members.shaw.ca/zapiper118/2.JPG
http://members.shaw.ca/zapiper118/3.JPG

Judge for yourselves, anyway, the puck didn't deflect off of Malik's stick, and Cloutier although screened, wasn't completely blind -- and as you can see, there's a good couple inches on the shortside open. That should have been closed.

quat
10-22-2003, 02:26 PM
Judge for yourselves, anyway, the puck didn't deflect off of Malik's stick, and Cloutier although screened, wasn't completely blind -- and as you can see, there's a good couple inches on the shortside open. That should have been closed.

How do you use those images as evidence that the puck wasn't deflected? :confused:

When I first saw the game, and one of the announcers said they thought it had been deflected, I figured they were mistaken. But after watching the tape last night, it sure seemed to change direction to me. It's a difficult angle to tell, as the camera shot is almost directly inline with the shot, making a change in elevation almost impreceptible. I thought it did in fact deflect, but I could be wrong. :dunno:

PecaFan
10-22-2003, 02:38 PM
Judge for yourselves, anyway, the puck didn't deflect off of Malik's stick, and Cloutier although screened, wasn't completely blind -- and as you can see, there's a good couple inches on the shortside open. That should have been closed.

Look at those images, he's not out of position. If he moved over more to the shortside, even more of the far side (which is already more open than the short side) becomes open. He's not a 4x6 brick wall. He can't cover every inch of the net. There will always be holes open.

A laser of a shot by a noted sniper, from in close, on the power play, and screened by his defenseman. Yup, that's a weak goal. :rolleyes: