Thoughts from last night

wint
10-21-2003, 09:29 AM
OK, so I live in New York, and I've watched 4 games so far this year on TV, but last night was the first game I saw live this year. I came away with the following...

1. These are 2 similar teams. Both have some great stickhandling/playmaking skill up front, but there is absolutely no "puck poise" or "team concept" to be found.

2. One of the most disappointing forwards so far this year has been Nilson. Almost didn't notice him all game. Just like last game and the game before.

3. The first 2 periods made me realize how far the Panthers still are from even competing with average teams. The Panthers were feistier and less willing to be shoved around, but showed no willingness to initiate the action, and in general didn't help each other out down low. The Power Play was, for the most part, a joke. However, the third period was much different. That was the best I've seen them play in a while, with Hagman banging and digging out pucks and Kristian and Viktor SKATING the puck into the zone. Every time up ice felt like a breakout, and the Rangers looked like they were standing around waiting for something to happen. Great stuff.

3. Faceoffs - I think a big problem with faceoffs is the fact that the lines are being changed around so much. Few faceoffs are won cleanly right back to the defenseman - most involve little battles in the circle even after the drop of the puck. So it's extremely important that the centerman have good unspoken communication with his wingers so that everyone knows what to expect, where to go, etc. I even remember an offensive zone draw or two where the Panthers won the facoff cleanly back to no one. That's inexcusable, and it has a lot to do with not having a good rapport with your linemates.

4. Why on earth was Novo playing first line minutes with Olli last night? Are we showcasing him to another GM so we can get a 6th round pick instead of an 8th? Novo is just so hilariously predictable...he darts around without any sort of direction all game and eventually gets one or two partial breakaways...but he rarely gets a shot off and crashes into the goalie or the end boards after every one (IMO the Rangers penalty on his partial break was a gift). I had to explain to my girlfriend that the Panthers had a player that couldn't turn.

5. Huselius will break 30 goals this year. He was the Panthers' best player by far last night. His best play was stickhandling on the boards in 3 feet of space with 2 Rangers on him, waiting for someone, ANYONE to come help him out. Everyone else was standing around, but Huselius held the puck for 5 or 6 seconds before finally finding someone to dish it off to.

6. I have supported Keenan for a long time, but I'm finally coming around to the idea that maybe we need a different coach (Larry Robinson?). For all you Keenan supporters out there - and I used to be one - take a step back for a second and consider that Keenan challenges the players without supporting them. He takes them off the power play without teaching them the power play. Worst of all, he is, in the players' perspective, often arbitrary - with his lines, icetime, practices, decisions, etc. That's a recipe for depression, not work ethic. He may be the perfect coach to keep a good team from resting on their laurels, but the Panthers need someone to actively instill the positive, not just demand the elimination of the negative in order to build character.

jacksheit
10-21-2003, 09:42 AM
Keenan is a motivator of people who know how to play.
Butthe panthers dont know how to play YET.
As a team we need 1 more player. either a rw for the first line (if kozy went to 2nd line center), or a second line center. This would give us 2 lines that IMO could score. Parrish is for trade, isnt he a right wing, he'd b good, a good hard worker i belive

Takkie
10-21-2003, 11:20 AM
bring in Larry Robinson!

Captain8
10-21-2003, 11:32 AM
OK, so I live in New York, and I've watched 4 games so far this year on TV, but last night was the first game I saw live this year. I came away with the following...

1. These are 2 similar teams. Both have some great stickhandling/playmaking skill up front, but there is absolutely no "puck poise" or "team concept" to be found.

2. One of the most disappointing forwards so far this year has been Nilson. Almost didn't notice him all game. Just like last game and the game before.

3. The first 2 periods made me realize how far the Panthers still are from even competing with average teams. The Panthers were feistier and less willing to be shoved around, but showed no willingness to initiate the action, and in general didn't help each other out down low. The Power Play was, for the most part, a joke. However, the third period was much different. That was the best I've seen them play in a while, with Hagman banging and digging out pucks and Kristian and Viktor SKATING the puck into the zone. Every time up ice felt like a breakout, and the Rangers looked like they were standing around waiting for something to happen. Great stuff.

3. Faceoffs - I think a big problem with faceoffs is the fact that the lines are being changed around so much. Few faceoffs are won cleanly right back to the defenseman - most involve little battles in the circle even after the drop of the puck. So it's extremely important that the centerman have good unspoken communication with his wingers so that everyone knows what to expect, where to go, etc. I even remember an offensive zone draw or two where the Panthers won the facoff cleanly back to no one. That's inexcusable, and it has a lot to do with not having a good rapport with your linemates.

4. Why on earth was Novo playing first line minutes with Olli last night? Are we showcasing him to another GM so we can get a 6th round pick instead of an 8th? Novo is just so hilariously predictable...he darts around without any sort of direction all game and eventually gets one or two partial breakaways...but he rarely gets a shot off and crashes into the goalie or the end boards after every one (IMO the Rangers penalty on his partial break was a gift). I had to explain to my girlfriend that the Panthers had a player that couldn't turn.

5. Huselius will break 30 goals this year. He was the Panthers' best player by far last night. His best play was stickhandling on the boards in 3 feet of space with 2 Rangers on him, waiting for someone, ANYONE to come help him out. Everyone else was standing around, but Huselius held the puck for 5 or 6 seconds before finally finding someone to dish it off to.

6. I have supported Keenan for a long time, but I'm finally coming around to the idea that maybe we need a different coach (Larry Robinson?). For all you Keenan supporters out there - and I used to be one - take a step back for a second and consider that Keenan challenges the players without supporting them. He takes them off the power play without teaching them the power play. Worst of all, he is, in the players' perspective, often arbitrary - with his lines, icetime, practices, decisions, etc. That's a recipe for depression, not work ethic. He may be the perfect coach to keep a good team from resting on their laurels, but the Panthers need someone to actively instill the positive, not just demand the elimination of the negative in order to build character.

1. The Panthers generally tend to work harder than Rangers. And the Rangers' names up front once had a much better reputation for being elite skilled players than the current Panthers. But yes, both groups do go through long stretches of unsightly play.

2. Nilson is basically a third liner who is being asked to do more than he is capable of doing on most nights. I think there is some untapped potential in Samuelsson and Shvidki as better versions of the glue player Nilson is expected to be.

4. Disagree here. I thought Novo added speed and energy, which made him useful against the Rangers' vulnerable D. The penalty in question was a result of the ref's respect for the fact that Novo was skating hard straight to the net. Even in a slightly marginal situation, the league standards should give the forward the benefit of the doubt.

6. Strongly agree.

sting_fan
10-21-2003, 12:24 PM
4. Disagree here. I thought Novo added speed and energy, which made him useful against the Rangers' vulnerable D. The penalty in question was a result of the ref's respect for the fact that Novo was skating hard straight to the net. Even in a slightly marginal situation, the league standards should give the forward the benefit of the doubt.

THANK YOU!

Even after a strong performance, many Panther fans continue to feel obligated to downplay Novoseltsev's performance. Each and ever time you hear the same thing. Tried to beat four players on his own; can't skate; can't stop; always hits the boards; crashes into the net time and time again. It's downright sad.

Novoseltsev had a heck of a game last night, as did most of the Panthers. He crashed into the net ONCE, and that was only because he was hooked down. Not once did I see him crash into the boards. And this bit about not being able to turn? That's a new one.

For once, give the guy some credit. Much of what was asked of him he did. He was even successful in the things usually not asked of him (2 for 2 on faceoffs). He played well last night, and this time, it's not bias talking.

DarkForce
10-21-2003, 12:43 PM
you went to the game wint?
where did you sit?
I got front row seats right where Oldelein beat up barnaby.
I really liked how panthers played yesturday. It was a nice change from the Isles game. In isles game panthers weren't making no second effort to get to the puck and wasted a solid performance by Luongo. It was the other way around in the yesturdays game. Panthers were all over the ice outplaying rangers most of the night especially in the third, but Lui allowed 2 softies and Duhnam was strong. I hope Team and Luongo start showing up on the same nights or it might again be a season without playoffs. They will have to do that tomorrow if they want to beat NJ and avoid 4 games losing string. We always play poorly against NJ.
Personaly I think this team needs a proven scorer. A first line winger or a second line center. It would releive some pressure from the kids.

P.S. Our PP looked horible last night...

Hokej
10-21-2003, 01:34 PM
OK, so I live in New York, and I've watched 4 games so far this year on TV, but last night was the first game I saw live this year. I came away with the following...

1. These are 2 similar teams. Both have some great stickhandling/playmaking skill up front, but there is absolutely no "puck poise" or "team concept" to be found.

2. One of the most disappointing forwards so far this year has been Nilson. Almost didn't notice him all game. Just like last game and the game before.

3. The first 2 periods made me realize how far the Panthers still are from even competing with average teams. The Panthers were feistier and less willing to be shoved around, but showed no willingness to initiate the action, and in general didn't help each other out down low. The Power Play was, for the most part, a joke. However, the third period was much different. That was the best I've seen them play in a while, with Hagman banging and digging out pucks and Kristian and Viktor SKATING the puck into the zone. Every time up ice felt like a breakout, and the Rangers looked like they were standing around waiting for something to happen. Great stuff.

3. Faceoffs - I think a big problem with faceoffs is the fact that the lines are being changed around so much. Few faceoffs are won cleanly right back to the defenseman - most involve little battles in the circle even after the drop of the puck. So it's extremely important that the centerman have good unspoken communication with his wingers so that everyone knows what to expect, where to go, etc. I even remember an offensive zone draw or two where the Panthers won the facoff cleanly back to no one. That's inexcusable, and it has a lot to do with not having a good rapport with your linemates.

4. Why on earth was Novo playing first line minutes with Olli last night? Are we showcasing him to another GM so we can get a 6th round pick instead of an 8th? Novo is just so hilariously predictable...he darts around without any sort of direction all game and eventually gets one or two partial breakaways...but he rarely gets a shot off and crashes into the goalie or the end boards after every one (IMO the Rangers penalty on his partial break was a gift). I had to explain to my girlfriend that the Panthers had a player that couldn't turn.

5. Huselius will break 30 goals this year. He was the Panthers' best player by far last night. His best play was stickhandling on the boards in 3 feet of space with 2 Rangers on him, waiting for someone, ANYONE to come help him out. Everyone else was standing around, but Huselius held the puck for 5 or 6 seconds before finally finding someone to dish it off to.

6. I have supported Keenan for a long time, but I'm finally coming around to the idea that maybe we need a different coach (Larry Robinson?). For all you Keenan supporters out there - and I used to be one - take a step back for a second and consider that Keenan challenges the players without supporting them. He takes them off the power play without teaching them the power play. Worst of all, he is, in the players' perspective, often arbitrary - with his lines, icetime, practices, decisions, etc. That's a recipe for depression, not work ethic. He may be the perfect coach to keep a good team from resting on their laurels, but the Panthers need someone to actively instill the positive, not just demand the elimination of the negative in order to build character.
From what I've seen sofar I think that players are too scared make a mistake and you can even see it on the ice all they do is either shooting a puck out of defensive zone or dumping into the offensive one. They dont "control puck" most of the game they spend trying to get the puck and then when they get it they just shoot it somewhere so they dont make a mistake. IN MY OPINION "IF YOU CONTROL PUCK YOU CONTROL GAME"

wint
10-21-2003, 02:51 PM
you went to the game wint?
where did you sit?

Behind the Rangers goal (1st & 3rd Period). About 20-25 rows up.

And Stingfan, maybe it's unfair to judge Novo on this one game (after all, he was essentially replacing Kozlov on the 1st line), but I just don't see him breaking out of his funk. He is never calm or patient with the puck. Admittedly, he is full of energy, but when is he going to use that energy intelligently? Believe me, I'm not saying this because I'm rooting against the guy. I'm just waiting for him to circle back once to wait for his teammates to enter the zone, or truly control the play once, or make a smart, patient goal-scorer's move like Huselius did a few games ago. And I haven't seen it yet.

Coolburn
10-21-2003, 04:49 PM
Here's my observations thus far on the season:

1. To me, its obvious that we'll still need to wait for players to develop further to have a complete team. Basically we don't have a 2nd line and just two 3rd lines instead. When guys like Globke, Stewart, Weiss, Nedorost, Campbell, & possibly Shvidki are ready, then we'll have 2nd line talent players. Obviously thats 6 players so not all of them will pan out and be 2nd line players or they may end up getting moved. But at least we have 2 shots per position to get a 2nd line player.

2. The defense needs experience obviously. But I think they need to know where their partners will be all the time. Maybe they need to use a different type of positional play when in their zone. I like what I see with both Lilja & Trnka but they shouldn't be relied on for heavy mins either. Jay needs to learn as much as he can from Odelein but in the long term, we still need a partner for him that can move a little faster because this team is being built based on speed.

3. These guys don't know how to hit. Being willing to hit and knowing how to lay down a hit are 2 different things. Several of them haven't had to be physical so they don't know the right ways to make a hit. Some of their hits take them out of the play entirely. Thats pointless then to me. They should take the opposing player out but still be able to make plays when they hit.

4. I thought Novo played decent but not great last nite. But I expect him to play decent every nite. He's extremely fast and knows how to use his speed. He still tries to split defenders which never works and pisses me off when he does try it. But otherwise, he did provide something different that I kinda liked in that game. In fact, wasn't Novo on the ice for the Hagman goal??

5. I liked when Huselius was on the line with Jokinen & Hagman. But really, when I look at that line, its not a 1st line and that might not be a horrible thing for the future to have. Maybe this will become the 2nd line with Hagman possibily replaced by Nedorost. Huselius seems to play good with Jokinen at center so I like them together and maybe they can feed off each other and both score 30 goals...that would give us a chance at the playoffs.

6. I would love to see Robinson here and have said so in the past. Really the problem I have with Keenan as coach is how the players have actually responded to him. They're too worried that if they make a mistake, they'll get benched and so they don't take any chances...like not taking any shots on goals, you can't score...if you never take any chances, you can't make a big play. The confidence that Keenan shows in Olli needs to also be shown in all the guys and we might then see what this team can do.

Donga
10-21-2003, 05:33 PM
6. I would love to see Robinson here and have said so in the past. Really the problem I have with Keenan as coach is how the players have actually responded to him. They're too worried that if they make a mistake, they'll get benched and so they don't take any chances...like not taking any shots on goals, you can't score...if you never take any chances, you can't make a big play. The confidence that Keenan shows in Olli needs to also be shown in all the guys and we might then see what this team can do.

I totally agree. Would anyone consider anyone like a Kevin Constantine. From all reports that I've read, he is a teacher of players.