Avs get Konowalchuk

Reign Nateo
10-22-2003, 03:37 PM
and a 3rd rounder for Bates Battaglia and Jonas Johansson.

While I like this move for the future, Kono is a real battler and will make the games against the Avs even tougher. Seems kind of silly considering the Avs traded Vrbata to get Bates?

Oh well, thoughts?

kmad
10-22-2003, 04:34 PM
panic move by Colorado

Ol' Dirty Chinaman*
10-22-2003, 04:36 PM
panic move by Colorado

No kidding, With the exception of Foote and Blake, the Avs are as soft as they come.

I find it pretty funny that Kariya and Selanne are underachieving, and now Kariya's got an injury (LOL).

Biggest Canuck Fan
10-22-2003, 05:20 PM
The Avs are as soft as they come coming from a Canucks fan ? :joker:

You cannot be serious? The Canucks are a far more gritty team than the Avs, and the Avs have only 5 players I would call gritty. Blake, Foote, Morris, Forsberg (when he doesn't dive) and Worrell. I suppose Skrastins couls also be included there for arguments sake.

The Canucks on the other hand... Bertuzzi, Linden, Cooke, Jovanovski, Ohlund, May, Allen, Ruttuu, Chubarov, Arvedson... yeah the Avs sure do have a grit advantage over the Canucks :rolleyes:

kmad
10-22-2003, 05:23 PM
The Canucks on the other hand... Bertuzzi, Linden, Cooke, Jovanovski, Ohlund, May, Allen, Ruttuu, Chubarov, Arvedson... yeah the Avs sure do have a grit advantage over the Canucks :rolleyes:

..don't forget Cloutier

Biggest Canuck Fan
10-22-2003, 05:29 PM
Add Morris , Hinote and Konowalchuk to the list . I didn't know Arvedson was gritty , when did this come about ?

Speaking of diving , wasn't Cooke the first player to get fined for diving last year ? Add Naslund to that list also .

I did add Morris... and Hinote is OK, but doesn't see enough Ice time.

Sorry but the Avs do not come close to the Canucks. You Avs fans... you can't stand the fact the Canucks are passing you by... that and the fact your infallible GM screwed up royally on this trade.

and on a side note, I said Kariya was injury prone, and all the Avs fans laughed at me... aren't laughing now, are you?

Frightened Inmate #2
10-22-2003, 05:29 PM
Add Morris , Hinote and Konowalchuk to the list . I didn't know Arvedson was gritty , when did this come about ?

Speaking of diving , wasn't Cooke the first player to get fined for diving last year ? Add Naslund to that list also .

Morris, gritty? I got to watch him on a constant basis for years and water has more grit than this guy.

quat
10-22-2003, 05:34 PM
Add Morris , Hinote and Konowalchuk to the list . I didn't know Arvedson was gritty , when did this come about ?

Speaking of diving , wasn't Cooke the first player to get fined for diving last year ? Add Naslund to that list also .

Over on the Avs board, there are lot's of comments relating to the Avs present lack of grit (whether it means anything or not is debated!), and the fact that Forsberg pisses all you guys off when he dives. You are correct that Cooke did draw a fine for diving, but does that realisticly convince anyone that Cooke dives more than Forsberg? And being that he got called earlier than someone else means...? What exactly? I got my speeding ticket in June, but you got your speeding ticket in September... therefore I speed more than you! Makes complete sense. :p

quat
10-22-2003, 05:40 PM
The Canucks are passing Colorado ? When did this happen ?The Canucks are just another team that can produce ok in the regular season but , can't bring the goods in the playoffs .

:rolleyes: Your comments are getting weird. The Canucks have been building this team since Burke got here... uh, before that the Canucks generally sucked all the time :p At least be accurate if you're going to try and insult the CAnucks. :joker: A comment like that might fit the Blues more than the Canucks... Van haven't been in the post season often enough to say they can't produce. If you want to call failing by losing to the eventual cup winners not bringing the goods... well, whatever. Last season the Canucks ran out of gas, and didn't have what it takes to go deep. They are a much different team this season.

quat
10-22-2003, 05:44 PM
Diving in hockey and speeding in a vehicle isn't a good comparisin . Nice try though .

Okay... so you think Cooke dives more than Forsberg? The example I gave relates to the timing of an infraction, obviously I don't think driving and hockey are similiar in action. The two are very similiar if you spend a bit of time thinking about it. :teach:

quat
10-22-2003, 05:46 PM
I know the Canucks are getting better every year but , they aren't a playoff team IMO.

Well, if you are going by their playoff history, you'll get no argument from me. However, they have shown they are developing every year, and that generally leads to a team that can be concidered a playoff team. The Nords were built that way.

RoyIsALegend*
10-22-2003, 05:47 PM
I did add Morris... and Hinote is OK, but doesn't see enough Ice time.

You're going to consider Magnus Arvedson(the pansy who was knocked down by the wing of Tie Domi's swing) gritty yet not count Dan Hinote?

Pathetically biased.

Sorry but the Avs do not come close to the Canucks. You Avs fans... you can't stand the fact the Canucks are passing you by... that and the fact your infallible GM screwed up royally on this trade.

Just one thing to say here...

Would you like to look like an absolute fool again at the end of the season like last year?

Keep hypin' up the 'Nucks.

And when I come starting threads late in the season after a 10th straight Northwest title, you can go run and hide again.

Dr. Nucksfan
10-22-2003, 05:47 PM
Over on the Avs board, there are lot's of comments relating to the Avs present lack of grit (whether it means anything or not is debated!), and the fact that Forsberg pisses all you guys off when he dives. You are correct that Cooke did draw a fine for diving, but does that realisticly convince anyone that Cooke dives more than Forsberg? And being that he got called earlier than someone else means...? What exactly? I got my speeding ticket in June, but you got your speeding ticket in September... therefore I speed more than you! Makes complete sense. :p


Hey Quat, let's lay off the Avs. You should know they are infallible as a team, and that Lacroix is pretty much a genius, and Morris is tough as nails and that team is about as deep as a thimble full of mercury poured onto a pool table.

Ol' Dirty Chinaman*
10-22-2003, 05:52 PM
Oh please, you Avs fans need to take off your rose-colored glasses, why do you think PL made this trade ?

And keep talking Avs fans, for such a vaunted offense you guys get punked by Edmonton and Boston, what -- 10-2 ?

quat
10-22-2003, 05:52 PM
Hey Quat, let's lay off the Avs. You should know they are infallible as a team, and that Lacroix is pretty much a genius, and Morris is tough as nails and that team is about as deep as a thimble full of mercury poured onto a pool table.

Them's fightin words pal ! Looking forward to the game tonight against the Blues Doc? I'm going to tape the game at Mr.T's... you?

RoyIsALegend*
10-22-2003, 05:53 PM
And keep talking Avs fans, for such a vaunted offense you guys get punked by Edmonton and Boston, what -- 10-2 ?

In the 4th and 5th games of the season.

Way to go, have a sticker.

Ol' Dirty Chinaman*
10-22-2003, 05:55 PM
I thought the regular season was 82 games , not 5 ?

And how many games did you win the division by ?

quat
10-22-2003, 05:55 PM
Oh please, you Avs fans need to take off your rose-colored glasses, why do you think PL made this trade ?

And keep talking Avs fans, for such a vaunted offense you guys get punked by Edmonton and Boston, what -- 10-2 ?

This is true, but the Avs usually start slow... all we Nucks fans hope it's something they continue and expand further into the season!

I think Avs fans are going to be in for a hard year... maybe frustrating... ahh... so frustrating.

quat
10-22-2003, 05:56 PM
In the 4th and 5th games of the season.

Way to go, have a sticker.


:lol: Me too, can I have a sticker too?

Ol' Dirty Chinaman*
10-22-2003, 05:58 PM
What does that have to do with anything ?

Lordy.

Take some comprehension classes, then get back to this thread.

quat
10-22-2003, 06:01 PM
If I remember correctly , Colorado was 15 points behind Vancouver last year . Sakic was gone for 20 games , we still won the division . Half way during the season , Canuck fans already were drinking champagne thinking they won the division .

Put's down Champagne... Hey, you didn't answer the Forsberg > Cooke at diving ! Are you still thinking over the driving example? ;)

BeantownBilly
10-22-2003, 06:01 PM
You cannot be serious? The Canucks are a far more gritty team than the Avs, and the Avs have only 5 players I would call gritty. Blake, Foote, Morris, Forsberg (when he doesn't dive) and Worrell. I suppose Skrastins couls also be included there for arguments sake.

The Canucks on the other hand... Bertuzzi, Linden, Cooke, Jovanovski, Ohlund, May, Allen, Ruttuu, Chubarov, Arvedson... yeah the Avs sure do have a grit advantage over the Canucks :rolleyes:



Arvedson?? hehe

Impossibles
10-22-2003, 06:04 PM
^
You also had Roy last year. Lets see if Abby can do the same.

Back to the trade, I think this is just a lateral move for the avs. Konowalchuck has about the same skill-set as Bates, but more experience and grit.

PL kinda looks like he doesn't really know what he's doing, doesn't he?

quat
10-22-2003, 06:07 PM
^
You also had Roy last year. Lets see if Abby can do the same.

Back to the trade, I think this is just a lateral move for the avs. Konowalchuck has about the same skill-set as Bates, but more experience and grit.

PL kinda looks like he doesn't really know what he's doing, doesn't he?

It doesn't really look like goal is the position the Avs are struggling with. Is Konowalchuck better than Battaglia? I remember him being great on that shut down line. It would seem that he is an upgrade, in that he is a veteran presence.

RandV
10-22-2003, 06:44 PM
I think Konowalchuk is an upgrade over Battaglia for sure . Aebischer has played good , not awesome . The Avs are playing like crap right now , they'll turn it around . They won't be going with Abby for the playoffs , you can guarantee that .

Canucks actually put up the better regular season last year, but lost to the Avs on a technicallity, 5 OT loss points to 1. Avs fans shouldn't be feeling to comfortable with the division lead.

Jon Burke
10-22-2003, 07:14 PM
I know the Canucks are getting better every year but , they aren't a playoff team IMO.

TROLL ALERT.

Please explain why you think that the Canucks aren't a playoff team. I have no problem with you posting here and you can even criticize the Canucks, but do explain why you think so please.

Thank you.

Jon Burke
10-22-2003, 07:16 PM
It doesn't really look like goal is the position the Avs are struggling with. Is Konowalchuck better than Battaglia? I remember him being great on that shut down line. It would seem that he is an upgrade, in that he is a veteran presence.

Konowalchuk is better than Battaglia, but not by THAT much. Certainly not enough to justify throwing in a good prospect like Johansson. I know prospects have proven zilcho and I've even used that argument a few times myself, but I think prospects hold some value because of their potential. And Battaglia and Johansson's value could fetch more than Konowalchuk, who is not a huge upgrade over Battaglia, IMO.

Jon Burke
10-22-2003, 07:19 PM
Arvedson?? hehe

My thoughts exactly. Arvedson is not gritty. Maybe in comparison to other Europeans he is, but in comparison to a lot of NHLers, he's quite soft.

I like his good defensive play, though. We could use a few more players like him who know their way around in their own end and can put up some points.

RoyIsALegend*
10-22-2003, 07:41 PM
My thoughts exactly. Arvedson is not gritty. Maybe in comparison to other Europeans he is, but in comparison to a lot of NHLers, he's quite soft.

I like his good defensive play, though. We could use a few more players like him who know their way around in their own end and can put up some points.

Definitely.

Magnus Arvedson is among the top 10 wingers in the league when it comes to defensive ability and awareness. However, to imply that Arvedson is gritty and Dan Hinote is not, much like BCF did, is an absolute joke.

Mr. Canucklehead
10-22-2003, 10:02 PM
Commenting on the Avs versus Canucks' toughness(try and stay with me here)

I think the Canucks have more guys who are gritty than the Avs do, but I think the gritty guys the Avs have are grittier than the gritty guys the Canucks have. :p If that makes any sense. For example, Cummins and Worrell are tougher customers than anyone on the Canucks. But that's two tough players as opposed to the several the Canucks have.

Super Joe, I'm not going to make wild proclamations and say the Canucks are better than the Avalanche, but the Canucks are certainly a playoff team. They improve every year; 4 games, to 6, to 14. That shows steady improvement. And didn't our games played in the playoffs last year double the Avalanche's?

I'm not saying the Canucks are better, but you're no better than BCF when you make such huge detractory statements to the Canucks...

~Canucklehead~

cc
10-22-2003, 10:36 PM
I like Steve Konawalchuk but I didn't like this trade. They didn't give Bates Battaglia much of a chance before they decided to ship him out. The Avs lose yet another touted prospect in Johanson, but they still have a rookie coach and an inexperienced goalie tandem. Something just doesn't sit well with me regarding this team and it's not a team that I would be particularly confident in. When you change the personell that drastically, it takes awhile before the team finds a unified identity and by that time, it may be too late to recover from that.

PhillyNucksFan
10-22-2003, 10:43 PM
Tanguay/Skoula is going to be shipped out before you know for a G or another G... Cujo?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

RoyIsALegend*
10-22-2003, 10:53 PM
Tanguay/Skoula is going to be shipped out before you know for a G or another G... Cujo?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

*grin*

Silly 'Nuck fan.

The Red Wings will not get *one damn thing* of value in return for Curtis. He will rot in the AHL for a while until around Christmas times rumors will come back up. He'll eventually find a team and choke again come playoff time.

That's just how Cujo is.

Keep in mind that Joseph is familiar with a stint in the minors with a stint in Las Vegas prior to his Edmontan arrival.

Your idea on the Avs trading those two for Joseph is ridiculous.

If anything, today's trade signifies that Pierre Lacroix and George McPhee are indeed on each other's speed dial, and come deadline time... Olaf Kolzig could *indeed* be an Av. I'd part with Tanguay, Skoula and Sauve for Kolzig and a decent defenseman. With Kolzig earning $6.75 M this year and the Caps likely shopping Jaromir Jagr as well, they could look to dump salary in the Avs way.

I'm sorry, but throw Kolzig on the Avs and the annual acquisiton of a defenseman(Bourque-Blake-Kaspairaitisisisiisisisisisisi-Morris-Marchment), there will be a solid defender acquired... the Avalanche could be a *frighteningly* dangerous team.

All speculation though, compadre.

Mr. Canucklehead
10-22-2003, 11:37 PM
^Something we agree on. He's playing in the AHL at $8 million for goodness' sakes. However, if Avs fans think that Theodore will come for Tanguay and/or Skoula, they've got another thing coming, especially given how Theo's been looking of late. The whole Habs team for that matter.

~Canucklehead~

orcatown
10-23-2003, 01:21 AM
The Avs probably have enough grit when you consider guys like Foote and Blake. However their true toughness is tied up in two players -Cummins and Worrell. The problem here is that neither can really play hockey - especially Cummins. You can't play them both without totally screwing up your 4th line. All you can really do is park one of them on the bench and wheel them out if someone begins to take liberities with your stars. If you use them much more than that you get into serious penalty problems or big trouble in your own end.

Thus it's difficult to play a gritty, four line, in your face style. What grit the Canucks do have can actually play well enough - such as May - so as not to hurt you elsewhere. I would say that, in the end, the Canucks have more grit that can actually play.

The big problem in Colorado is obviously between the pipes. From what I saw of Sauve vs. the Oilers he is totally not ready. He is down on everything and leaves the top of the net absolutely exposed. Reminded me of Brochu. He was horrible. Any game he plays in this year will be up for grabs. It won't take long your NHL shooters to get the book on this guy. That means that Aebisher will have to carry the load. That's bad news for the Avs. He is not that good to start with and he has never had to play the amount that will be required of him this year. He grind down as the year goes on. Without goaltending no team goes anywhere.

Probably PL will make a move to shore this huge deficiency. Probably the key to the Avs season is whether PL can work out a deal that brings in someone more adequate without giving up too much.

tantalum
10-23-2003, 04:46 AM
Wow so they traded Battaglia who they were playing 10 minutes a game for Konowalchuk who'll do the the same. They are nearly the same player.

And it doesn't fix the fundamental problem the Avs have....depth. It was a one for one deal up front and they've now lost Kariya for a time and once again LaCroix decides to throw in his first round pick from 2002.

Is Konowalchuk + 3rd throw in really worth Battaglia AND a 20 year old first round pick in 2002? I don't think so. A good deal by Washington who cut a bit of salary and they also have bigger problems to solve but a good deal nonetheless.

You think LaCroix would like to have the talented Vrbata who he traded for Battaglia, in the lineup now with Kariya injured? Or perhaps Reinprecht and even Nedorost.
_________________
I'm just trying to get into heaven, I'm not running for Jesus.

Mr. Canucklehead
10-23-2003, 06:20 AM
The Canucks did play 7 games more than the Avs in the playoffs LAST year . If you want to go back a couple years then I can but , there's no need .

Sorry, I'm confused...what were you saying here?

~Canucklehead~

uzziman
10-23-2003, 07:21 AM
Arvedson?? hehe

Ask Barret Jackman how gritty Magnus Arvedson is :D Absolutely crushed him into the boards last night.

Reign Nateo
10-23-2003, 07:34 AM
Arvedson played very gritty last night. I think he plays a gritty game, but doesn't hang around in it too much. He'll get in the corners, but doesn't get involved in the stupid stuff, which perhaps gives the illusion that he is not gritty.

Rageinthecage
10-23-2003, 08:19 AM
Colorado gave up far too much in trading a former 1st round draft pick, but don't even compare Konawalchuk and Battaglia. Konawalchuk is one of the best character players and gritty defensive 3rd liners in the league. Battaglia is a player that didn't fit for the Avs as he's not going to play in the top six, and is miscast as a checking line player. Just because Bates had a couple decent years on the BBC line in Carolina doesn't make him a budding power forward. Trust me, any GM in the NHL would rather have Konawalchuk than Battaglia.

The only thing that should bother Avs fans is Konawalchuk's injury prone nature and the fact yet another good young player has been shipped out by Lacroix. However, the Avs now have an excellent shutdown 3rd line of Nikolishin, Konawalchuk, and Hahl. Granato can now comfortably roll 3 lines on a regular basis. The 4th line is horrible however (until Svatos returns).

ColAvsFan
10-23-2003, 09:17 AM
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Super_Joe
"The Canucks did play 7 games more than the Avs in the playoffs LAST year . If you want to go back a couple years then I can but , there's no need ."

Sorry, I'm confused...what were you saying here?

~Canucklehead~
I think he's probably referring to the 2001 playoffs when the Avalanche SWEPT the Canucks in the 1st round.

Matty
10-23-2003, 10:25 AM
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Super_Joe
"The Canucks did play 7 games more than the Avs in the playoffs LAST year . If you want to go back a couple years then I can but , there's no need ."


I think he's probably referring to the 2001 playoffs when the Avalanche SWEPT the Canucks in the 1st round.

And the Canucks of 2001 are comparable to the present day Canucks how? :dunno:

Tom.H
10-24-2003, 09:36 PM
I am a big Canucks fan, but I actually believe that the Avs are better than the Canucks.
I think it is only a matter of time before their new players start to click.
Getting Konawalchuk to me means that they are looking for a player to put them over the top. The Kariya injury doesn't help matters, but it is early in the season and they have a lot of depth.

This move means that they are ready to morgage the future for the present. This is a gamble, but sinse Forsberg is leaving the club in the not too distant future, the gamble may be worth it.

Golden Foppa
10-25-2003, 01:39 AM
Over on the Avs board, there are lot's of comments relating to the Avs present lack of grit (whether it means anything or not is debated!), and the fact that Forsberg pisses all you guys off when he dives. You are correct that Cooke did draw a fine for diving, but does that realisticly convince anyone that Cooke dives more than Forsberg? And being that he got called earlier than someone else means...? What exactly? I got my speeding ticket in June, but you got your speeding ticket in September... therefore I speed more than you! Makes complete sense. :p

Forsberg never got fined for diving, so based on your argument, Cooke got a speeding ticket while Forsberg never got pulled over.

Golden Foppa
10-25-2003, 01:45 AM
Wow so they traded Battaglia who they were playing 10 minutes a game for Konowalchuk who'll do the the same. They are nearly the same player.

And it doesn't fix the fundamental problem the Avs have....depth. It was a one for one deal up front and they've now lost Kariya for a time and once again LaCroix decides to throw in his first round pick from 2002.

Is Konowalchuk + 3rd throw in really worth Battaglia AND a 20 year old first round pick in 2002? I don't think so. A good deal by Washington who cut a bit of salary and they also have bigger problems to solve but a good deal nonetheless.

You think LaCroix would like to have the talented Vrbata who he traded for Battaglia, in the lineup now with Kariya injured? Or perhaps Reinprecht and even Nedorost.
_________________
I'm just trying to get into heaven, I'm not running for Jesus.

Battaglia and Konowalchuk aren't even close to being the same player. Yes they are both bottom 2 line guys, but Kono never takes a shift off and plays very well on the PK while Bates can't even string together a couple good games in a row and doesn't contribute offensively or defensively (to the Avs, was good in the playoffs for Canes). I think the Avs overpaid, but this trade will help them dramatically in the PK and leadership departments.

tantalum
10-25-2003, 04:34 AM
I realise Konowalchuk is a better player but they are still both third liners and the difference isn't great enough to make a tangible difference for the Avs IMO. Konowalchuk is not a main penalty killer. He had about 1 minute a game last year in that role. He's a second unit penalty killer at best as Battaglia is. They don't gain much there. Konowalchuk never takes a shift off? I wouldn't say that. I really used to like him as a player but frankly his quality of play has been on the decline for the past couple of seasons. Maybe that changes with a new team but I don't see a third line player having any sort of major effect for the Avs. Atleast not the needed one.

Leadership? Is this not the team with Sakic, Forsberg, Kariya, Selanne, Blake and Foote? If the Avs need more leadership in a room full of those veterans with their resumes and Konowalchuk makes a difference the Avs truly are in trouble. Those are your leaders...if they aren't leading the team is going nowhere fast.