Taffe, trade him or keep him?

Guest
10-31-2003, 01:59 PM
There is growing debate at the worth and potential of Taffe, and I figured I'd ask the question.

If Taffe turned out to have the potential of Daniel Briere, would you say to keep him or trade him now? Given the same ability to score and the same limited defense. Of course I know that Briere might not be the fairest player to compare Taffe to, and this could easily turn into a thread about if we should have traded Briere.

Morris Lukowich
10-31-2003, 03:01 PM
There is growing debate at the worth and potential of Taffe, and I figured I'd ask the question.

If Taffe turned out to have the potential of Daniel Briere, would you say to keep him or trade him now? Given the same ability to score and the same limited defense. Of course I know that Briere might not be the fairest player to compare Taffe to, and this could easily turn into a thread about if we should have traded Briere.

I certainly agree that Briere is not the best comparison because at face value we can all probably agree that given 3 seasons Taffe will exceed Briere on both offensive and defensive capabilites.

I would say that Taffe is as defensive as Kolanos. This means that he is capable of staying with his man and although he won't likely knock him down he can probably disrupt him enough to break the play. Briere simply could not (and I loved Briere BTW)

Good poll but kind of a no-brainer...

Hordichuk_24
10-31-2003, 05:56 PM
No.

CoyoteBaloney
10-31-2003, 09:17 PM
Briere is talented ... offensively. Defensively Briere SUCKS!!!

Briere was a 2nd liner ... at best. You said you thought Taffe was going to be a 2nd liner. So what's your problem with Taffe??? And why are you so in love with Briere's game???

Gwyddbwyll
11-01-2003, 02:42 AM
I think Kolanos is better than Taffe defensively. That year playing with May and Wilson really helped his two-way game. Taffe *could* be the same .. he hasnt had the same opportunities as Kolanos because the team is harder to break into now.

Ive noticed Taffe floats more and grinds less than Kolanos did. That's partly his style of play but it also makes him look lazy. Still far from being a Briere though. Danny did try but was just physically unable to do it.. Taffe doesnt have that problem.

Guest
11-01-2003, 05:21 AM
Like I said, they weren't a good comparison, but Briere has made it to the NHL where Taffe hasn't yet. They were both 1st rounders with offense front and center. There has been a knock by Springy's that his defense is less than desireable as well, although it is better than Briere's.

I'd keep Taffe too, but I thought it was a good discussion for those who say "He's not what you think, trade him."

CoyoteBaloney
11-01-2003, 06:04 AM
Like I said, they weren't a good comparison, but Briere has made it to the NHL where Taffe hasn't yet. They were both 1st rounders with offense front and center. There has been a knock by Springy's that his defense is less than desireable as well, although it is better than Briere's.

I'd keep Taffe too, but I thought it was a good discussion for those who say "He's not what you think, trade him."
Considering that Briere was drafted 4 years earlier then Taffe one would hope Briere would make it to the NHL before Taffe.

The only reason why Taffe is not in the NHL this season is because the Coyotes are planning for a work stopage to next year's NHL season. Rather than have taffe sit around and do nothing, they have fixed it so they keep him and all the other prospects in Springfield, where they will be able to continue playing and being coached by Coyotes' coaches.

I think Taffe is what most of think -- a first liner.

Waldo
11-01-2003, 06:46 AM
I remember Stu Barnes, a former high 1st round pick by the Jets. Mike Smith gave him away and he is having a very good career where as the Jets got nothing return. You have to hold on to these players until it's certain they can't play. I agree that he's not in the NHL because of the CBA. The last thing you want is a draft pick to make it on someone elses team. I think he'll end up a goal scorer for the Coyotes. He'll be up sometime as injury replacement and we'll get another look.

PhoPhan
11-01-2003, 07:46 AM
Now what happens if the Coyotes leave Taffe in the AHL all season, and then the work stoppage doesn't last long, or occur at all? You have just wasted an entire season of development.

ulf
11-01-2003, 08:59 AM
the other sides to the coin are

if their is a work stoppage and you've called the player up you've wasted a year or more of his developement.

the financial cost of carrying the player through the stoppage vs paying peanuts in the a while he continues to develope.

The Viking
11-01-2003, 09:02 AM
the other sides to the coin are

if their is a work stoppage and you've called the player up you've wasted a year or more of his developement.

the financial cost of carrying the player through the stoppage vs paying peanuts in the a while he continues to develope.

I'm confused. What do you mean when you say "the financial cost of carrying the player through the stoppage"

ulf
11-01-2003, 09:13 AM
it depends on his contract....if he's in the nhl the yotes will have to honor his contract even though he won't be playing because of the stoppage.

if they leave him in the a he may be payed a less amount and will still be playing..i think :teach:

Waldo
11-01-2003, 09:20 AM
I don't really have a handle on the CBA but I don't think the players get paid while locked out or on strike. Like any other union, players have a strike fund to help players in dire straights. But no play = no pay. Some teams will benefit if there is a strike because they would lose less than if they have a season.

The Viking
11-01-2003, 09:23 AM
it depends on his contract....if he's in the nhl the yotes will have to honor his contract even though he won't be playing because of the stoppage.

if they leave him in the a he may be payed a less amount and will still be playing..i think :teach:

I have to agree with Waldo No Play = No Pay

eye
11-01-2003, 09:27 AM
I don't really have a handle on the CBA but I don't think the players get paid while locked out or on strike. Like any other union, players have a strike fund to help players in dire straights. But no play = no pay. Some teams will benefit if there is a strike because they would lose less than if they have a season.

Unless it's otherwise specified in the contract. i.e. Bertuzzi, Holik and a few others have a clause in their contracts that says they still get paid a certain amount of their guaranteed contracts even in the event of a owners lockout. I could be wrong but I think Taffe and many others in the NHL would still be eligible to play in the AHL but would likely decline for fear of getting injured at a much lower salary level and the games would not contribute to their NHL pension fund. There is no CBA link to keeping Jeff in the AHL if he is good enough for the NHL bring him up and let him show what he has. Jeff would still be young enough without enough games played at the NHL level that he could still be returned to Springfield.

PhoPhan
11-01-2003, 10:49 AM
What are you doing here, eye?

Greg
11-01-2003, 05:32 PM
Interesting line from tonight's Springfield/Hartford game:

Period 2
Hartford - Jayme Filipowicz - (Fighting Major), 5 min, 20:00
Springfield - Jeff Taffe - (Fighting Major), 5 min, 20:00

LT
11-01-2003, 05:53 PM
BTW, whoever called Taffe a 1st line player, I don't think so. Maybe for some expansion team but not on any normal team. 2nd line player at best. IMO I don't see why everyone is so high on this kid, he's never impressed me, especially his work habit. Like someone said he looks as if he's floating and apparently that's his style, it may work for a Mario Lemieux but it aint gonna work for a Jeff Taffe.

I'm willing to give the kid some time but he's gotta start working harder when he's called up.

TaffeFan
11-02-2003, 12:51 AM
BTW, whoever called Taffe a 1st line player, I don't think so. Maybe for some expansion team but not on any normal team. 2nd line player at best. IMO I don't see why everyone is so high on this kid, he's never impressed me, especially his work habit. Like someone said he looks as if he's floating and apparently that's his style, it may work for a Mario Lemieux but it aint gonna work for a Jeff Taffe.

I'm willing to give the kid some time but he's gotta start working harder when he's called up.


You have no idea what your talking about. Taffe has the same style of hockey as wayne gretzky. Taffe works his ass off but you dont notice it because he is soo smooth with his skating ability and puck handling. You cant check a guy like jeff taffe. Just like wayne gretzky, they have that instinct and gracefullness to dodge checks. Ive watched everyone of taffes high school and college games and he has always been the best player on the ice. He left college one year early so this is his first truely NHL season. Most people spend their first season in the ahl. Yes this is jeffs second but lets just pretend he stayed at the U for another year. He is ranked #4 for ahl prospects, he went to the ahl all star game. he dominates for springfield. Last year he was the leading scorer even though he didnt play nearly as much as most of the players cause he played 20 games in the nhl, he will more then likely lead the team this year and make another ahl all star game. When Jeff first went Pro me and the rest of his friends from back home predict that: give him 5 years and he will be in the top 30 in scoring in the NHL.. This is year number 2. Give him time..... one more last thing about working harder when your called up. I sat with jeff's dad for one of the games last year and he told me that jeff was having a hard time going back in fourth from phoenix to springfield. Which made him tired. Also its hard to play when the coach doesnt believe that a rookie should be on the ice in the third period. He will be a leader of this team when he gets a whole season and is allowed to play all three periods. But yourself in his shoes and think about what he had to do last year.

scoob4093
11-02-2003, 03:46 AM
Taffe fan said : "he has the same style as Gretzky". Also said he "dominates" for Springfield. Sounds like his fan is in reality his agent.
My belief is that Taffe will not be an NHL player until he realizes his defensive responsibilities as a center. After seeing 7 of his first 8 games this season I would say he is working harder at it than he did last season. Whether it's enough to satisfy Barnett is an open question.

Gwyddbwyll
11-02-2003, 04:08 AM
You have no idea what your talking about. Taffe has the same style of hockey as wayne gretzky. Taffe works his ass off but you dont notice it because he is soo smooth with his skating ability and puck handling. You cant check a guy like jeff taffe. Just like wayne gretzky, they have that instinct and gracefullness to dodge checks. Ive watched everyone of taffes high school and college games and he has always been the best player on the ice. He left college one year early so this is his first truely NHL season. Most people spend their first season in the ahl. Yes this is jeffs second but lets just pretend he stayed at the U for another year. He is ranked #4 for ahl prospects, he went to the ahl all star game. he dominates for springfield. Last year he was the leading scorer even though he didnt play nearly as much as most of the players cause he played 20 games in the nhl, he will more then likely lead the team this year and make another ahl all star game. When Jeff first went Pro me and the rest of his friends from back home predict that: give him 5 years and he will be in the top 30 in scoring in the NHL..

As the poster that said he floats I should probably comment. LT said that Taffe may have the same style as Mario but he is not Mario. You say he has the same style as Gretzky but Taffe is nowhere near as good as either. Floating is usually seen as a negative comment but a lot of top players do that in order to slice through to maximum effect.

Anyway regardless I think Taffe really needs to do what Kolanos did - compromise his attacking instincts and learn to grind. He wont be the best grinder but it will get him on the team and into position to play as he really wants a year down the line like Kolanos has a lot more responsibility now. The team doesnt need another Danny Briere who was useless if he didnt score.

MN_Gopher
11-02-2003, 07:58 AM
I think it was Taffes soph summer, Lucia basically called him lazy, weak, with a poor diet and work ethic. So the next year he leads us in goals and helps us win the title. Plays solid in both ends and lays some great hits. Cut out fast food and bulks up. I am guessing by the major fighting pen he has not lost his irratable side. He played on olympic ice in college and was a very good skater in the open. He does look for holes and drift around, but then he launches that shot. Dont spare his feelings tell what he needs to do, challenge and he will step up.

LT
11-02-2003, 11:55 AM
Was that Jeffs mom?

Hey I was only giving my opinion of what I have seen. You seem to have some inside knowledge that the rest of us don't which would give you a different perspective. Believe me when I say I want Jeff Taffe to succeed I just haven't seen anything that gets me excited about him. When I watched players like Tkachuk or Selanne come on the scene you knew right away that these guys were going to be stars. They played so well their first couple games that the coach had no choice but to play them, there is no way you can tell me that Jeff Taffe has played his way on to this team. If you say he needs more time, I agree. As for your comparison to Gretzky, well lets just agree to disagree on that point.

You know who Taffe reminds me of is an Ed Olczyk type player.

CoyoteBaloney
11-02-2003, 10:06 PM
BTW, whoever called Taffe a 1st line player, I don't think so. Maybe for some expansion team but not on any normal team. 2nd line player at best. IMO I don't see why everyone is so high on this kid, he's never impressed me, especially his work habit. Like someone said he looks as if he's floating and apparently that's his style, it may work for a Mario Lemieux but it aint gonna work for a Jeff Taffe.

I'm willing to give the kid some time but he's gotta start working harder when he's called up.
I was the one who called taffe a first liner. You can disagree with me all you want, but I will eventually be proven right with his play. Taffe does work hard ... not sure what you are talking about.

eye, what are you doing here and talking about the CBA when you said you are no longer an NHL fan but an NCAA fan. The NCAA doesn't have a CBA to worry about.

_Del_
11-02-2003, 10:47 PM
I was the one who called taffe a first liner. You can disagree with me all you want, but I will eventually be proven right with his play. Taffe does work hard ... not sure what you are talking about.

eye, what are you doing here and talking about the CBA when you said you are no longer an NHL fan but an NCAA fan. The NCAA doesn't have a CBA to worry about.

First off, Taffe has the talent to be a first liner eventually -- no question. The issue right now is drive and consistancy. Right now, in my eyes, Taffe=Savage. One's younger and cheaper, but from what I've seen that's a fair comparison. You can argue that if he worked his ass off and played more consistant and was effective away from the puck that he would be better than Savage, and you'd be right. But until that happens, I think the comparison is fair.

Secondly, grow up. Eye can post (or not post) as often as he wants to. Even if he hated the NHL (which I doubt, though I believe he's disenfranchised like alot of us) *, he's got enough knowledge on whichever hockey subject he chooses to post about to put most anyone here to shame. You might not always agree with him, but he's never been one to throw out a baseless arguement on anything or to pick a fight for fightings sake.



* and no, the disenfranchised joke wasn't a delibrate pun on the Winnipeg move, though I immediately made the connection too, lol

eye
11-03-2003, 07:00 AM
First off, Taffe has the talent to be a first liner eventually -- no question. The issue right now is drive and consistancy. Right now, in my eyes, Taffe=Savage. One's younger and cheaper, but from what I've seen that's a fair comparison. You can argue that if he worked his ass off and played more consistant and was effective away from the puck that he would be better than Savage, and you'd be right. But until that happens, I think the comparison is fair.

Secondly, grow up. Eye can post (or not post) as often as he wants to. Even if he hated the NHL (which I doubt, though I believe he's disenfranchised like alot of us) *, he's got enough knowledge on whichever hockey subject he chooses to post about to put most anyone here to shame. You might not always agree with him, but he's never been one to throw out a baseless arguement on anything or to pick a fight for fightings sake.



* and no, the disenfranchised joke wasn't a delibrate pun on the Winnipeg move, though I immediately made the connection too, lol

Thanks Del for the mature response. It was refreshing! I hold out hope that negotiations in the new CBA combined with the fan first thinking approach of the WHA bring with it renewed hope for the NHL game and the paying customers. I don't have to watch NHL games to know that keeping Taffe in Springfield is irrelevent to the CBA or any potential lock out and makes no sense even though CT has repeated himself 100 times. He could play for Phoenix all year and still be allowed to go back to Springfield next year so his arguement has no basis. The only thing preventing this is the Yotes have 23 players almost all of whom are on one way contracts so there is no roster space for him. Sure it's complicated by having 3 goalies so it's time to make a decision and find space for him as he has earned it with his early season production in Springfield scoring almost all of their important goals. Pelletier may deserve the same opportunity from everything I have read. Maybe if Taffe is moved Freddy and others will get more primetime ice to improve their games and prove themselves.

By the way, NCAA hockey has been great to watch so far this year.

scoob4093
11-03-2003, 08:00 AM
Thanks Del for the mature response. It was refreshing! I hold out hope that negotiations in the new CBA combined with the fan first thinking approach of the WHA bring with it renewed hope for the NHL game and the paying customers. I don't have to watch NHL games to know that keeping Taffe in Springfield is irrelevent to the CBA or any potential lock out and makes no sense even though CT has repeated himself 100 times. He could play for Phoenix all year and still be allowed to go back to Springfield next year so his arguement has no basis. The only thing preventing this is the Yotes have 23 players almost all of whom are on one way contracts so there is no roster space for him. Sure it's complicated by having 3 goalies so it's time to make a decision and find space for him as he has earned it with his early season production in Springfield scoring almost all of their important goals. Pelletier may deserve the same opportunity from everything I have read.


For what it's worth after last night's game over a few cold ones with some of the Falcon front office people they were of the opinion that Taffe's recall is imminent. Hope he makes the most of it.

CoyoteBaloney
11-03-2003, 09:58 AM
First off, Taffe has the talent to be a first liner eventually -- no question. The issue right now is drive and consistancy. Right now, in my eyes, Taffe=Savage. One's younger and cheaper, but from what I've seen that's a fair comparison. You can argue that if he worked his ass off and played more consistant and was effective away from the puck that he would be better than Savage, and you'd be right. But until that happens, I think the comparison is fair.

Secondly, grow up. Eye can post (or not post) as often as he wants to. Even if he hated the NHL (which I doubt, though I believe he's disenfranchised like alot of us) *, he's got enough knowledge on whichever hockey subject he chooses to post about to put most anyone here to shame. You might not always agree with him, but he's never been one to throw out a baseless arguement on anything or to pick a fight for fightings sake.



* and no, the disenfranchised joke wasn't a delibrate pun on the Winnipeg move, though I immediately made the connection too, lol
Hopefully your prozac will kick in real soon.

eye comes on here and complains like some Pimp's b*tch and makes this holier than thou post about why he is no longer an NHL fan but now devoted to the NCAA's hockey program.

Can eye post here as often as he likes? He sure can, but why would he after such a drama queen exit? I guess he wasn't getting attention on the NCAA board.

Guest
11-03-2003, 10:07 AM
I have no problem with Eye posting on here, but based on what he had said upon his supposed departure, it caused me to no longer care to read what he says. Ignore can be a nice feature when used correctly. I generally found Eye to be a good alternative to the boards, but I do question why I keep seeing his name pop up.

I'm not sure the way the CBA is set up if Taffe would then become part of the lockout if he finishes the season in the NHL. I'm certain there is some rule to the matter, and I think we'd see everyone in the minors that we can get there (Taffe & Spiller) by season's end. Whether it remains to be true, I've yet to see someone quote the CBA on the matter.

Taffe has certainly cooled down since his Player of the Week honors, but I would gladly take him on a trial basis than Cleary who I am not at all impressed with. The key is that Taffe has to play scoring line minutes though. If he's not playing with Doan, Nagy, Langkow, Johnson, Hrdina, then you may as well leave him in Springfield. Even the 2nd PP unit maybe to see how he works out.

Guest
11-03-2003, 10:28 AM
Maybe Taffe isn't cooling down, just caught up with my boxes for Springfield and saw that Taffe has scored the past 2 game winning goals for the team, out of the past 3 games where they have gone 2-0-1. He's not scoring in the bunches as much as he was, but he's still performing well.

He'll be recalled before the Coyotes win a game.

CoyoteBaloney
11-03-2003, 11:24 AM
I'm not sure the way the CBA is set up if Taffe would then become part of the lockout if he finishes the season in the NHL. I'm certain there is some rule to the matter, and I think we'd see everyone in the minors that we can get there (Taffe & Spiller) by season's end. Whether it remains to be true, I've yet to see someone quote the CBA on the matter.
Taffe has already played in 20 NHL games. At game 25 taffe would lose his rookie status. I also expect Spiller to be sent down around game 20 as well. I could be wrong, but that's my opinion at this time.

ulf
11-03-2003, 12:05 PM
i have no problem with anyone posting although i agree your dramatic exit left you[eye] vulnerable to some heat each time you post :)

my opinion is also that any player that loses his waiver free status this year will be without a place to play hockey and develope next year unless he clears waivers. this makes me think mgmt believes a lockout is immenent, they would be hesitant to see someone like taffe get in one year and then need to clear waivers to continue his developement next year. i could be completely offside here as i am not that knowlegable about this scenario but hope i can be enlightened.

adding a player of limited defence at this time seems like the wrong approach to improving the goaltending and defensive game the yotes are lacking.

Guest
11-03-2003, 12:23 PM
Taffe has already played in 20 NHL games. At game 25 taffe would lose his rookie status. I also expect Spiller to be sent down around game 20 as well. I could be wrong, but that's my opinion at this time.

It's not the rookie status the team team gives a crap about, it's the waivers exempt status, which is on a totally different level.

Taffe is 22 years old right now, has played in 20 games. He can play in another 39 games in the NHL before he loses exemption on his 60 NHL game. That'll continue until the CBA expires. Once the CBA expires, it's anybody's guess how it will work.

Spiller is 20 years old right now, and has played in 8 games. He can play in up to 80 games this season (which he wouldn't at this point) and keep his waiver exemption as well.

I truely believe that if both players are in the NHL to end the season, they are considered part of the Lockout. I may be wrong however, as I have found no source to back this up. It might be more contingent on if they have a one way or two way contract, not sure. If they hold out as part of the lockout, they won't be in the A.