steve freaking nash

mr gib
04-26-2006, 11:40 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2422255

my gawd this guy is awesome

Alberta Yote
04-26-2006, 11:42 AM
If true, very well deserved.

Ajacied
04-26-2006, 12:06 PM
First time Duncan isn't a legit candidate.. Though you could still make a good case for him.

Troy McClure
04-26-2006, 12:22 PM
So the guy who isn't the best player on his team won MVP? Just when you think you've seen it all...

Alberta Yote
04-26-2006, 01:05 PM
So the guy who isn't the best player on his team won MVP? Just when you think you've seen it all...
I think you should poll his team on that one.

mr gib
04-26-2006, 01:13 PM
So the guy who isn't the best player on his team won MVP? Just when you think you've seen it all...
where did you read that?

Troy McClure
04-26-2006, 01:35 PM
where did you read that?
The linked ESPN article.

Ar-too
04-26-2006, 01:40 PM
I think this season proved that he's the best and most valuable player on his team. They only dropped 8 wins from last season without Amare. That's quite an accomplishment.

soya_sauce_chicken
04-26-2006, 02:08 PM
http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story/?ID=163920&hubname=nba

imo Dirk should have won it, but Nash deserved it this year..

Troy McClure
04-26-2006, 02:27 PM
I find it funny that he's playing the same game he did in Dallas but now he's an MVP. He was considered a liability in Dallas, but now that he's a Sun he's MVP. Kinda odd is all I'm saying.

Really, my thing with this is that if you were to wipe all the rosters clean and have GMs build the best team to win right now, would Nash even make the top 5? I doubt it. This is supposed to go to the best player in the league. I doubt you'll find one person in the world (outside of FOTS) who would rather have Nash over LeBron.

Vic Rattlehead*
04-26-2006, 07:07 PM
I thought James would take it. I mean, he only signle-handidly took the Cavs to the playoffs for the first time in what, eight years?

The Rage
04-26-2006, 07:17 PM
I find it funny that he's playing the same game he did in Dallas but now he's an MVP. He was considered a liability in Dallas, but now that he's a Sun he's MVP. Kinda odd is all I'm saying.

Really, my thing with this is that if you were to wipe all the rosters clean and have GMs build the best team to win right now, would Nash even make the top 5? I doubt it. This is supposed to go to the best player in the league. I doubt you'll find one person in the world (outside of FOTS) who would rather have Nash over LeBron.

Of course people would pick LeBron, but that's because he's young and has a huge future ahead of him. The MVP isn't supposed to be about that. The question you really have to ask is, how worse would a team be without a certain player? I think that Nash makes a massive difference in the wins column and that makes him the MVP. Almost all of the players around him are having career seasons--that's no coincidence.

Vic Rattlehead*
04-26-2006, 07:21 PM
Of course people would pick LeBron, but that's because he's young and has a huge future ahead of him. The MVP isn't supposed to be about that. The question you really have to ask is, how worse would a team be without a certain player? I think that Nash makes a massive difference in the wins column and that makes him the MVP. Almost all of the players around him are having career seasons--that's no coincidence.

Without Lebron James, the Cavs are a bottom three team. Without Nash, Suns still have a shot to make the playoffs.

Troy McClure
04-26-2006, 07:35 PM
Of course people would pick LeBron, but that's because he's young and has a huge future ahead of him. The MVP isn't supposed to be about that.
I wasn't asking about youth or potential. I was asking what player would you take with the first pick to build the best team right now. I don't think anyone would take Nash over LeBron, yet the writers all voted Nash as league MVP. It baffles my mind.

Biggsy
04-26-2006, 07:49 PM
Yeah lovin Nash gettin the MVP again thats hella sweet

Biggsy
04-26-2006, 07:50 PM
I thought James would take it. I mean, he only signle-handidly took the Cavs to the playoffs for the first time in what, eight years?
Yeah but nash is a lil white boy from BC

Troy McClure
04-26-2006, 08:24 PM
Yeah but nash is a lil white boy from BC
Are you saying he's a case of reverse affirmative action?

The Rage
04-26-2006, 08:41 PM
Without Lebron James, the Cavs are a bottom three team. Without Nash, Suns still have a shot to make the playoffs.

Maybe, maybe not. How do their respective teams do when Nash/Lebron are out of the line-up?

The Rage
04-26-2006, 08:45 PM
I wasn't asking about youth or potential. I was asking what player would you take with the first pick to build the best team right now. I don't think anyone would take Nash over LeBron, yet the writers all voted Nash as league MVP. It baffles my mind.

He's had the best year. What else is the MVP honour about anyway? How many players on the Suns are having career years in terms of points? It was four or five last time I checked. That's absolutely unbelievable. Nash doesn't have the traditional characteristics of an MVP player, but he has a huge impact on results. That's what matters.

Unholy Diver
04-26-2006, 09:04 PM
how about Kobe? he also single handedly got the Lakers into the playoffs and scored a zillion points, I would have voted Kobe, Lebron, and maybe then Nash

Fish on The Sand
04-26-2006, 11:00 PM
I find it funny that he's playing the same game he did in Dallas but now he's an MVP. He was considered a liability in Dallas, but now that he's a Sun he's MVP. Kinda odd is all I'm saying.

Really, my thing with this is that if you were to wipe all the rosters clean and have GMs build the best team to win right now, would Nash even make the top 5? I doubt it. This is supposed to go to the best player in the league. I doubt you'll find one person in the world (outside of FOTS) who would rather have Nash over LeBron.
I'd take Nash over Lebron in certain situations, like the Suns. Lebron instead of Nash likely means the Suns miss the playoffs, but starting from scratch I'd rather build around Lebron than Nash no questions asked.

Fish on The Sand
04-26-2006, 11:04 PM
Without Lebron James, the Cavs are a bottom three team. Without Nash, Suns still have a shot to make the playoffs.
I find that hilarious because many people picked the Suns to miss the playoffs or barely make them this season. But 55 wins later and now its of course they are this good. They only missed one of the most dominating players in the league for the entire season, had their starting center miss 30 games, and started Boris Diaw and James Jones for most of the year. Yet they still finished with a top 5 record in the league. Obviously Nash is mvp. He isn't going to score 35 a game, at least on his own, but I'll bet you anything with his team play Nash is responsible for a lot more ppg than Kobe ever could be. Kobe could score 80 points every game for all I care, but if the rest of the team is only scoring 10 then he isn't the mvp.

took420s
04-29-2006, 01:59 AM
I find that hilarious because many people picked the Suns to miss the playoffs or barely make them this season. But 55 wins later and now its of course they are this good. They only missed one of the most dominating players in the league for the entire season, had their starting center miss 30 games, and started Boris Diaw and James Jones for most of the year. Yet they still finished with a top 5 record in the league. Obviously Nash is mvp. He isn't going to score 35 a game, at least on his own, but I'll bet you anything with his team play Nash is responsible for a lot more ppg than Kobe ever could be. Kobe could score 80 points every game for all I care, but if the rest of the team is only scoring 10 then he isn't the mvp.

:biglaugh:

Haters will always hate.

Lakers 2 Suns 1.

Looks like Kobe is the one making his team better :yo:

Fish on The Sand
04-29-2006, 02:35 AM
:biglaugh:

Haters will always hate.

Lakers 2 Suns 1.

Looks like Kobe is the one making his team better :yo:
more like the refs, but this series is far from over. Lakers are only up 2-1, they have a long way to go.

took420s
04-29-2006, 12:44 PM
more like the refs, but this series is far from over. Lakers are only up 2-1, they have a long way to go.

Refs? Wanna talk about Refs? How about all of the head shots Kobe took in game 1 that were not called?

He even got a whelt on his head to prove it and Tim Thomas admitted fouling him.

Nashty is a greasy little Crypt Keeper...he gets phantom calls all the time (as well as Kobe's nuts in his grill :eek: )

Try again hater, maybe by the time the series is over and the Lakers are whoppin the Clipps in round 2 you will find a new excuse.

Laker Organization = :bow:

mr gib
04-29-2006, 08:30 PM
Refs? Wanna talk about Refs? How about all of the head shots Kobe took in game 1 that were not called?

He even got a whelt on his head to prove it and Tim Thomas admitted fouling him.

Nashty is a greasy little Crypt Keeper...he gets phantom calls all the time (as well as Kobe's nuts in his grill :eek: )

Try again hater, maybe by the time the series is over and the Lakers are whoppin the Clipps in round 2 you will find a new excuse.

Laker Organization = :bow:
actually phillip and kobe sure came with a different approach and its working - pretty rough out there for sure - missed calls - ya quite a few - nash needs to be a little selfish earlier so he can get in a groove and take more of those layups and half courter's when he can - dishing to the outside is not working - stone cold - the laker's are roughing up thomas who's the only guy going other than steve -

playoffs are whole new type of game and sure the sun's are d - less
d'antoni say - we gotta run run run -

i don't like that quameee dood at all - and bill walton might as well put on a yellow jersey and call the game next to phil -

took420s
04-29-2006, 11:05 PM
actually phillip and kobe sure came with a different approach and its working - pretty rough out there for sure - missed calls - ya quite a few - nash needs to be a little selfish earlier so he can get in a groove and take more of those layups and half courter's when he can - dishing to the outside is not working - stone cold - the laker's are roughing up thomas who's the only guy going other than steve -

playoffs are whole new type of game and sure the sun's are d - less
d'antoni say - we gotta run run run -

i don't like that quameee dood at all - and bill walton might as well put on a yellow jersey and call the game next to phil -

Kwame is finally reaching his potential, all he had to do is get far away from that dump known as Washington DC.

Phillip is the real MVP, look how Larry Brown is doing with a better roster. Phil would have them playing in the playoffs but he came to LA instead.

LA or New York...New York or LA... :dunno:

took420s
04-30-2006, 06:48 PM
Nash lost the ball to let the lakers tie then gets called for the jump so Kobe could notch another winning shot on his belt.

Thank you Nash, you are truly the MVP.

FearTheFlyers
04-30-2006, 07:08 PM
Shame Steve Nash will never win in the playoffs.

Oh well.

took420s
04-30-2006, 07:09 PM
Shame Steve Nash will never win in the playoffs.

Oh well.

He should demand a trade to the Lakers ;)

mr gib
04-30-2006, 07:43 PM
He should demand a trade to the Lakers ;)
liver up -

is that a pancake on your girlfriend's head? - ( just kidding )

took420s
04-30-2006, 07:44 PM
liver up -

is that a pancake on your girlfriend's head? - ( just kidding )

Yes my lady frequently wears pancakes for hats.

Makes her fluffy and tasty :sarcasm:

mr gib
04-30-2006, 07:47 PM
great response - losing sucks

Enoch
05-01-2006, 02:03 AM
So I have discovered in this thread that

1) Assists are better than points because "You have to be making everyone else better around you"....Apparently 15 assists is better than scoring 80 points. (See Kobe Bryant)

2) The most valuable player is not going to the best player, or even the player that if injured likely means the team is looking at the no. 1 pick barring a lottery miscue (see Lebron James)

3) Steve Nash is the MVP

Personally, while I despise Kobe, and like Nash more than Lebron.....there really is no way, to me, that Nash is more valuable than Kobe Bryant or Lebron James...heck, Dirk is a far better player IMO than Nash and has only made that Dallas team appear better without Steve.

mr gib
05-01-2006, 02:49 AM
i have to cop - kobe served it up - great performance

took420s
05-01-2006, 03:13 PM
So I have discovered in this thread that

1) Assists are better than points because "You have to be making everyone else better around you"....Apparently 15 assists is better than scoring 80 points. (See Kobe Bryant)

2) The most valuable player is not going to the best player, or even the player that if injured likely means the team is looking at the no. 1 pick barring a lottery miscue (see Lebron James)

3) Steve Nash is the MVP

Personally, while I despise Kobe, and like Nash more than Lebron.....there really is no way, to me, that Nash is more valuable than Kobe Bryant or Lebron James...heck, Dirk is a far better player IMO than Nash and has only made that Dallas team appear better without Steve.

:clap:

I understand people hating Kobe, I would never try to change anyone's mind on that because it is a lost cause. I too have a player I will always hate no matter what...Snaq O'meal.

But anyone who still thinks, after watching this series that Kobe is not the MVP then I don't know what to say.

Kobe is making his players better and the Lakers are close to wrapping up what many belive is a big upset.

I mean the Lakers starting point guard is a guy named Smush? He was not even in the league last year and has been cut by 3 different teams.

The series is not about the refs or who is injured, it is about the Lakers having both the best coach and player in the NBA and the experiance needed to win playoff games.

Fish on The Sand
05-02-2006, 03:45 AM
So I have discovered in this thread that

1) Assists are better than points because "You have to be making everyone else better around you"....Apparently 15 assists is better than scoring 80 points. (See Kobe Bryant)

2) The most valuable player is not going to the best player, or even the player that if injured likely means the team is looking at the no. 1 pick barring a lottery miscue (see Lebron James)

3) Steve Nash is the MVP

Personally, while I despise Kobe, and like Nash more than Lebron.....there really is no way, to me, that Nash is more valuable than Kobe Bryant or Lebron James...heck, Dirk is a far better player IMO than Nash and has only made that Dallas team appear better without Steve.
Until Steve made Dirk his ***** in the playoffs.

KariyaIsGod*
05-02-2006, 09:48 AM
:clap:

I understand people hating Kobe, I would never try to change anyone's mind on that because it is a lost cause. I too have a player I will always hate no matter what...Snaq O'meal.

But anyone who still thinks, after watching this series that Kobe is not the MVP then I don't know what to say.

Kobe is making his players better and the Lakers are close to wrapping up what many belive is a big upset.

I mean the Lakers starting point guard is a guy named Smush? He was not even in the league last year and has been cut by 3 different teams.

The series is not about the refs or who is injured, it is about the Lakers having both the best coach and player in the NBA and the experiance needed to win playoff games.

Shaq gave Kobe the only three rings he will ever get in his entire career. How can you hate him?

took420s
05-02-2006, 11:35 AM
Shaq gave Kobe the only three rings he will ever get in his entire career. How can you hate him?

You seem sure Kobe will not win another ring, what do you base this on? It can't be the track record of Kobe or the Lakers. Take your time, finding an answer will be impossible.

Snaq didn't give anyone anything. He demanded to be traded and in the process insulted both the Laker organization and its fans. Was he worth 25 million? No and even the "discount" he gave Miami is looking pretty steep.

Snaq gets 20 million for the next 4 years :biglaugh: Dude has not even reached 10 points in his last 2 games and his team is falling apart. Seems like everywhere Snaq goes there is turmoil. I will have no greater joy than if the Lakers can close out the Sunsets and the Heat fall to the Bulls.

It real easy to hate an ungrateful, greedy player.

Epsilon
05-02-2006, 02:03 PM
Steve Nash = Joe Thornton of basketball

mr gib
05-05-2006, 10:51 AM
mvp night last night -

Unholy Diver
05-05-2006, 03:29 PM
You seem sure Kobe will not win another ring, what do you base this on? It can't be the track record of Kobe or the Lakers. Take your time, finding an answer will be impossible.

Snaq didn't give anyone anything. He demanded to be traded and in the process insulted both the Laker organization and its fans. Was he worth 25 million? No and even the "discount" he gave Miami is looking pretty steep.

Snaq gets 20 million for the next 4 years :biglaugh: Dude has not even reached 10 points in his last 2 games and his team is falling apart. Seems like everywhere Snaq goes there is turmoil. I will have no greater joy than if the Lakers can close out the Sunsets and the Heat fall to the Bulls.

It real easy to hate an ungrateful, greedy player.


lets see Kobe win a round in the playoffs on his own

Roughneck
05-05-2006, 04:28 PM
Seems like everywhere Snaq goes there is turmoil.

Yeah, the Lakers really took off when they got rid of him, its a wonder how they won anything with a bum like him around.

Alberta Yote
05-05-2006, 04:35 PM
Shaq has slowed down but his 30 pts 20 rebounds last night showed what he can still do when he needs to.

mr gib
05-05-2006, 04:53 PM
Shaq has slowed down but his 30 pts 20 rebounds last night showed what he can still do when he needs to.
love shaq - although he's older and banged up he could be putting it together -

Potlach
05-05-2006, 08:39 PM
love shaq - although he's older and banged up he could be putting it together -
His numbers in this year's playoffs are currently better than in last year's. He's always a force to be reckoned with come playoff time.

Doomsday Device
05-05-2006, 09:03 PM
Steve Nash = Joe Thornton of basketball
:dunce:

Evilo
05-07-2006, 03:42 AM
But anyone who still thinks, after watching this series that Kobe is not the MVP then I don't know what to say.

Kobe is making his players better and the Lakers are close to wrapping up what many belive is a big upset.

The series is not about the refs or who is injured, it is about the Lakers having both the best coach and player in the NBA and the experiance needed to win playoff games.
:amazed:

Vic Rattlehead*
05-07-2006, 09:40 AM
Kobe Bryant = Joe Thornton of basketball

Fixed.

Potlach
05-07-2006, 10:14 AM
It's official; guess who's getting the MVP for the second year in a row?

Ajacied
05-07-2006, 10:15 AM
It's official; guess who's getting the MVP for the second year in a row?

The worst one who's ever won it in its history?

Chaos
05-07-2006, 10:25 AM
And thats why the MVP award in the NBA has become a joke.

Evilo
05-07-2006, 10:29 AM
Not as if the Hart isn't a joke as well.

I never quite understood how the Hart is considered more important than the Pearson.
Who's the best judge : journalists or actual players?

The_Eck
05-07-2006, 11:16 AM
steve nash > rick nash

12# Peter Bondra
05-07-2006, 12:51 PM
Not as if the Hart isn't a joke as well.

I never quite understood how the Hart is considered more important than the Pearson.
Who's the best judge : journalists or actual players?
Well, some players dont play some players during the season so they cant judge them that well.

With the current format, some players wont meet even in the next 2 years.

naihlflames
05-07-2006, 01:20 PM
I think this season proved that he's the best and most valuable player on his team. They only dropped 8 wins from last season without Amare. That's quite an accomplishment.

Chauncey Billups put together a better season than Nash and really schooled Nash both times they played head to head.

Game 1 11/10 Pistons 111 Suns 104
Nash 6 for 17 .353%, 18 points, 8 assists, 6 turnovers.
Billups 9 for 15 .600%, 27 points, 11 assists, 3 turnovers

Game 2 4/2 Pistons 109 Suns 102
Nash 4 for 11 .364%, 13 points, 9 assists, 2 turnovers
Billups 12 for 23 .522%, 35 points, 5 assists 3 turnovers

Two game totals
Nash 10 for 28, 31 points, 17 assists, 8 turnovers
Billups 21 for 38, 62 points, 16 assists, 6 turnovers.

Chauncey, not Nash is Mr. Big Shot

Vidic5*
05-07-2006, 02:35 PM
Congrats to Steve Nash. You deserve it!!!

Fish on The Sand
05-07-2006, 03:15 PM
Chauncey Billups put together a better season than Nash and really schooled Nash both times they played head to head.

Game 1 11/10 Pistons 111 Suns 104
Nash 6 for 17 .353%, 18 points, 8 assists, 6 turnovers.
Billups 9 for 15 .600%, 27 points, 11 assists, 3 turnovers

Game 2 4/2 Pistons 109 Suns 102
Nash 4 for 11 .364%, 13 points, 9 assists, 2 turnovers
Billups 12 for 23 .522%, 35 points, 5 assists 3 turnovers

Two game totals
Nash 10 for 28, 31 points, 17 assists, 8 turnovers
Billups 21 for 38, 62 points, 16 assists, 6 turnovers.

Chauncey, not Nash is Mr. Big Shot
that's 2 games, lets be honest here.

05/06

Nash 18.8 ppg 10.5 apg .477 fg .421 3p, .921 ft +24.15 eff
Billups 18.5 ppg 8.6 apg .418 fg .433 3p, .894 ft +21.12 eff

so as you can see, Nash was the better player. Even more impressive considering Billups lacked any setbacks whatsoever. Nash himself struggled with injuries much of the year, and was without Amare all year, Thomas for 30 games and Barbosa for 25. Clearly, you are wrong.

Potlach
05-07-2006, 03:55 PM
that's 2 games, lets be honest here.

05/06

Nash 18.8 ppg 10.5 apg .477 fg .421 3p, .921 ft +24.15 eff
Billups 18.5 ppg 8.6 apg .418 fg .433 3p, .894 ft +21.12 eff

so as you can see, Nash was the better player. Even more impressive considering Billups lacked any setbacks whatsoever. Nash himself struggled with injuries much of the year, and was without Amare all year, Thomas for 30 games and Barbosa for 25. Clearly, you are wrong.
Not to mention Billups was playing with 3 other All-Stars.

naihlflames
05-07-2006, 06:58 PM
that's 2 games, lets be honest here.

05/06

Nash 18.8 ppg 10.5 apg .477 fg .421 3p, .921 ft +24.15 eff
Billups 18.5 ppg 8.6 apg .418 fg .433 3p, .894 ft +21.12 eff

so as you can see, Nash was the better player. Even more impressive considering Billups lacked any setbacks whatsoever. Nash himself struggled with injuries much of the year, and was without Amare all year, Thomas for 30 games and Barbosa for 25. Clearly, you are wrong.

Head to head, I'll take Billups over Nash.

Ironchef Chris Wok*
05-07-2006, 08:00 PM
Steve Nash is a TERRIBLE defender. It's not out of a lack of effort. He just can't defend.

He can hit an open jump shot, he can find the right guy, but he cannot defend... I have no idea why.

naihlflames
05-07-2006, 08:54 PM
that's 2 games, lets be honest here.

05/06

Nash 18.8 ppg 10.5 apg .477 fg .421 3p, .921 ft +24.15 eff
Billups 18.5 ppg 8.6 apg .418 fg .433 3p, .894 ft +21.12 eff

so as you can see, Nash was the better player. Even more impressive considering Billups lacked any setbacks whatsoever. Nash himself struggled with injuries much of the year, and was without Amare all year, Thomas for 30 games and Barbosa for 25. Clearly, you are wrong.

Nash also played for a run and gun team that was #1 in the NBA for offense, but # 28 for defense. Detroit was the #19 offense and the #3 defense. So 18.5 ppg on a team that plays a defensive style versus 18.8 pp on a run and gun team is more impressive.

I'll give you Nash is a better offensive player, but Billups is a much better defensive player. I like Billups two way game much better. Who can Nash shut down on the defensive end?

joe_shannon_1983*
05-07-2006, 09:20 PM
Canada is taking over basketball.

mr gib
05-07-2006, 11:21 PM
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Michael Jordan
Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Moses Malone
Tim Duncan
Karl Malone
Steve Nash

multiple mvp's

took420s
05-08-2006, 12:16 AM
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Michael Jordan
Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Moses Malone
Tim Duncan
Karl Malone
Steve Nash

multiple mvp's

3 Lakers on there baby :yo:

Can you believe the year Wilt averaged 50 points and 26 rebounds he was denied the MVP?

Steve Nash may play zero defense, but the dude is really incredible.

It helps when he is playing against a guy named Smush too, I am soooooooo tired of that guy right about now :madfire:

Fish on The Sand
05-08-2006, 12:25 AM
3 Lakers on there baby :yo:

Can you believe the year Wilt averaged 50 points and 26 rebounds he was denied the MVP?

Steve Nash may play zero defense, but the dude is really incredible.

It helps when he is playing against a guy named Smush too, I am soooooooo tired of that guy right about now :madfire:
Nash has torched every point gaurd in the league. This next part isn't directed at you, but if you switch Billups and Nash, which team do you think stands the better chance or repeating their success? I'll tell you now that Suns might miss the playoffs with Billups, but Pistons still win 60 games with Nash.

ZombieMatt
05-08-2006, 11:19 AM
Because he's 6'3 and quite possibly the least naturally athletically gifted player in the league.

Edit: Sorry My Bad I wanted to "quote" and not "edit' this post... I'm no power hungry mod.

Ironchef Chris Wok*
05-08-2006, 11:42 AM
Because he's 6'3 and quite possibly the least naturally athletically gifted player in the league.
.

Let me translate that for you:

HE'S WHITE!!!!!!!111

Troy McClure
05-08-2006, 11:46 AM
Nash has torched every point gaurd in the league.
He's also been torched by anyone running at him with a basketball. There's a reason why Mavs fans joked that he looked like a matador on defense. All Nash does is wave them by while saying "Ole, eh".

The Mavs improved a lot when Nash left. They play better defense and better basketball. Funny enough, the Suns improved a lot when they got Nash. He's been a great fit for them.

Ar-too
05-08-2006, 12:49 PM
Nash also played for a run and gun team that was #1 in the NBA for offense, but # 28 for defense. Detroit was the #19 offense and the #3 defense. So 18.5 ppg on a team that plays a defensive style versus 18.8 pp on a run and gun team is more impressive.

I'll give you Nash is a better offensive player, but Billups is a much better defensive player. I like Billups two way game much better. Who can Nash shut down on the defensive end?
If you asked me who I'd start my team with, I'd answer Chauncey Billups. You can do more with Billups than you can with Nash. That is to say that he's not a complete liability on the defensive end.

I would also argue that the reason that the Suns are #1 in most offensive categories is because of Steve Nash. The Suns would not be a playoff team without him, let alone #2 in the Western Conference.

Meanwhile, the Pistons would certainly be a playoff team and probably could win their division without Chauncey Billups. That's because the Pistons are the superior team.

People who say "Jason Kidd did (does) the same thing for the Nets and took the Nets to the Finals and he never won a MVP" bother me because this year and last year have to be evaluated on their own merit. Tim Duncan was the clear choice for MVP the two years Kidd took the Nets to the Finals. There is no such clear superior choice among the MVP candidates this year, or last year for that matter. There were strong arguments to be made for probably 6 or 7 players this year (Nash, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Dirk, Billups, Cassel). I would've voted for Lebron, but that's 'cause I'm in Ohio and I see more of Lebron than any of these other players. Kobe was probably more valuable than anyone else, but nobody like to vote for a jerk if they can help it.

Chaos
05-08-2006, 01:12 PM
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Michael Jordan
Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Moses Malone
Tim Duncan
Karl Malone
Steve Nash

multiple mvp's
Someone on that list is not like the others.

Chaos
05-08-2006, 01:13 PM
Nash has torched every point gaurd in the league.
And been torched worse by the opposing point guard. I remember Nash making Mike Bibby look like a sure fire hall of famer when the Mavs and Kings would play in the playoffs. He is arguably the worst defender in the entire league. It's kind of amazing how the Mavs lost a two time MVP and actually got better.

Troy McClure
05-08-2006, 01:25 PM
And been torched worse by the opposing point guard. I remember Nash making Mike Bibby look like a sure fire hall of famer when the Mavs and Kings would play in the playoffs. He is arguably the worst defender in the entire league. It's kind of amazing how the Mavs lost a two time MVP and actually got better.
Craig Miller, is that you?

Chaos
05-08-2006, 02:01 PM
Craig Miller, is that you?
He stole his opinion from me ;) .

Troy McClure
05-08-2006, 02:13 PM
He stole his opinion from me ;) .
Babyarm.

Fish on The Sand
05-08-2006, 03:47 PM
And been torched worse by the opposing point guard. I remember Nash making Mike Bibby look like a sure fire hall of famer when the Mavs and Kings would play in the playoffs. He is arguably the worst defender in the entire league. It's kind of amazing how the Mavs lost a two time MVP and actually got better.
They won a couple of more regulars eason games and they got better? The whole the mavericks got better was a farce. They improved slightly over their previous season, when most of the seasons before that with Nash were better, or pretty much the same. That also doesn't take into account that the Mavs got torched by Nash in the playoffs. Fact is, the Mavs haven't improved since Nash left, they have stayed pretty much the same. They didn't go further in the playoffs last year without Nash, and bare going to be in tough to match their best playoffs ever down 0-1 to the Spurs.

Chaos
05-08-2006, 03:58 PM
They won a couple of more regulars eason games and they got better? The whole the mavericks got better was a farce. They improved slightly over their previous season, when most of the seasons before that with Nash were better, or pretty much the same. That also doesn't take into account that the Mavs got torched by Nash in the playoffs. Fact is, the Mavs haven't improved since Nash left, they have stayed pretty much the same. They didn't go further in the playoffs last year without Nash, and bare going to be in tough to match their best playoffs ever down 0-1 to the Spurs.
The TEAM is better. They actually play defense. A lot of that has to do with Avery Johnson, but the rest is the fact that their point guard isnt getting blown past every posession down the court, requiring help defense EVERY possession leaving others open. If you actually watched the games instead of just looking at the standings you would see that the Mavs are a much better team since Nash left.

Fish on The Sand
05-08-2006, 04:26 PM
The TEAM is better. They actually play defense. A lot of that has to do with Avery Johnson, but the rest is the fact that their point guard isnt getting blown past every posession down the court, requiring help defense EVERY possession leaving others open. If you actually watched the games instead of just looking at the standings you would see that the Mavs are a much better team since Nash left.
if they were a much betetr team they would win more games, or is that just way off base?

FACT: with Nash, the suns have had 2 of their bests easons in franchise history
FACT: without Nash the Mavs are yet to achieve what they did with Nash.

Mavs are still certainly a good team without Nash, but to say they are better is just non-sense. They haven't had the same playoff success yet, and haven't improved significantly, if at all, in the regular season.

Chaos
05-08-2006, 04:31 PM
if they were a much betetr team they would win more games, or is that just way off base?
its definately off base, since the Mavs were missing key players for large stretches of the regular season. If the Mavs had the luck with injuries that Detroit had, they would have had the best record in the league.

FACT: with Nash, the suns have had 2 of their best seasons in franchise history
Is that all because Nash, or is it a combination of Nash, D'Antoni's brilliant offensive system, and the players around him?

FACT: without Nash the Mavs are yet to achieve what they did with Nash.
Record wise, you are right. However this year's Mavs were the best defensive team in franchise history. And they are still getting better.

Mavs are still certainly a good team without Nash, but to say they are better is just non-sense. They haven't had the same playoff success yet, and haven't improved significantly, if at all, in the regular season.
Again, watch the games and you'd see a major difference from years past.

ZombieMatt
05-08-2006, 07:59 PM
Let me translate that for you:

HE'S WHITE!!!!!!!111

I wasn't going to say it because that's a little simplistic, but yeah.

He simply does not have the same athletic abilities as other NBA-calibre players. Steve Nash is a true basketball player. His pure skill set has to compensate for the fact that he's below-average speed, not as quick, can't jump nearly as high and is physically weaker than the people guarding him. And yet he gets the job done most nights.

wildone26*
05-08-2006, 08:10 PM
As a Canadian I am proud of him, but at the same time I am not sure I agree with his MVP honor this year. Last year I did even though some complained Shaq should have gotten it. This year I felt Bryant was the one who should have won it, he had just a phenomenal year, I hate the guy but in all fairness it should have been his. Nowitzki and LeBron James were atleast equaly deserving of it then Nash as well. So I am happy he won it but I am not sure if he deserved it this year, last year he definitely did. Still a great accomplishment to win it two years in a row though, great to see a Canadian do that.

Rover*
05-08-2006, 08:34 PM
Great job nash! Great choice for the mvp. I would have been ok if lebron won it too. Just wouldn't be right if kobe won it as that would be the worst choice in history. The guy quit on his team in game 7 and is a disgrace to the game. Only cares about himself. Good thing he didn't win it.

took420s
05-08-2006, 09:01 PM
Great job nash! Great choice for the mvp. I would have been ok if lebron won it too. Just wouldn't be right if kobe won it as that would be the worst choice in history. The guy quit on his team in game 7 and is a disgrace to the game. Only cares about himself. Good thing he didn't win it.

Is that you Shaq?

Quit on his team...what a joke :shakehead

Look up the shooting percentage of him versus the rest of the team in game 6 and 7 and tell me who quit...Kobe or HIS team?

Rover*
05-08-2006, 10:00 PM
Is that you Shaq?

Quit on his team...what a joke :shakehead

Look up the shooting percentage of him versus the rest of the team in game 6 and 7 and tell me who quit...Kobe or HIS team?

Kobe quit by taking only 3 shots in the 2nd half. Like barkley said, he wanted to show the world that his teammates were to blame and not him because he knew that even if he scored 50 they were going to lose that game, so he gave up. Phil jackson even said that wasn't the gameplan but he trusted kobe. I don't know how you can defend kobe in this case. All he did in the 2nd half was stand at the 3 point line and pass off to teammates. He didn't play defense, grab any rebounds or get any assists. He didn't try to drive or be aggressive and then kick out passes to his teammates.

It's not just me that thinks he quit. A lot of analysts think he quit and it's true. Kobe made damn sure his teammates were to blame for the loss and not him, so he gave up in the 2nd half. MJ would never score only 1 point in a game 7. Hopefully this will kill any comparisons to MJ once and for all.

This is just a sample of the numerous articles out there.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/060508

"Kobe is incapable of that.

On the verge of maturing into a leader, Kobe turned back into a one-man show. What a disappointment.

In Saturday night's Game 7, Kobe basically tried to outscore the Suns by himself -- and you had the halftime feeling that he would at least make it crazy close. But the rpm was too hot, especially in Phoenix. Although Kobe had looked unstoppable in scoring 23 in the first half, Phoenix was on pace to score 120 and led by 15.

So when the Suns came out even hotter in the third quarter, Kobe basically quit. For sure, he quit shooting. He scored one more point -- on a technical-foul free throw.

Jordan never would have done that.

Deep down, Kobe is still the spoiled brat.

Nash summed up Kobe Bryant by saying: "I don't know what to expect of him. Sometimes it's a little strange."

When the blowout ended, Kobe trotted straight to the locker room. Sure, the blood had been bad between these teams. But at least he could have shaken Nash's hand, or Shawn Marion's. But no. No class."

took420s
05-09-2006, 12:07 AM
Like barkley said

Sorry, have to stop you right there, if you are going to base your opinion on that oafs opinion than you are beyond help.

Kobe scores 23 in the first half and the Lakers were down by 16.

Kobe takes only 3 shots in the second half and they lost by 31.

The Lakers lost the first half by 16 and the second by 15.

So how did Kobe hurt his team again? They actually did better when he only took 3 shots.

You can listen to Sir Charles and the other BSPN bozos if you like...I choose to use my eyes and actually watch the games.

The same guys you find ripping Kobe are the same guys praising him after the his heroics in game 1,2,3, and 4.

The whole Suns team ripped Kobe even before the season started so why should he juggle their nuts after they just beat him? I would bet anything that if the Lakers would have won the only one's shaking Kobe's hand would be his own teammates, not any Suns players.

Rover*
05-09-2006, 02:15 AM
Great game tonight! The MVP does it again! :eek: :bow:

Hockeycanada*
05-09-2006, 07:54 PM
Nice job Nash. :handclap:

mr gib
05-23-2006, 01:19 AM
wow - the little weener